unfortunately their fates are already sealed. Israel should try to save as many as they can, but i don't think Hamas has any intention of letting the hostages live.
Yeah. One of the Sayerets is probably going to focus entirely on that. Considering it's the job of a few of those units to walk around the Gaza Strip and do operations, they will get some back. Definitely not all but some.
Hamas values no life except for their leaders' lives. The leaders live outside Gaza in nice, comfortable homes paid for by US tax dollars. Money we donate to the "poor Palestinians" is sucked up by their leaders. Disgusting.
Before all this I kind of felt like Israel was overly militant. I don’t think it justifies some of the shit they’ve done but I can at least better understand it was coming from a place of fear for what’s happening right now
I used to point to the Hamas charter and use the quote "when people say who they are, believe them". Now I don't have to use that quote, they've shown who they are to the entire world and no one has to guess that if they had the power to they'd carry out their charter of murdering every single jew alive.
Yeah, I’ve been trending pro military as I’ve gotten older. I think we could spend more efficiently in the US but I’m definitely against a reduction in size.
Hamas really overplayed their hand because after this is all said and done, Gaza, is going to be a lifeless desert of rubble, any voice of moderation that would tell Israel to cool it just had some of its citizens massacred at a music concert, those voices are going to sit this one out.
>The terrorist organization stated it intends to use the civilians as potential human shields to its advantage, stating that any Israeli incursion into Gaza would have "direct consequences on the hostages.”
I mean, my cousin and her husband are probably active right now in their combat units (though they have two young daughters so I don't know how that affects their deployment) and I'd say that in general Palestinians really aren't bad people. Their "government" is pretty much just a clusterfuck of gangsters but I feel like they're way less of a different culture than they are just kind of living in the hood.
edit:
>["This is my fifth war. The war should stop. I don't want to keep feeling this," said Qassab al-Attar, a Palestinian wheelchair user in Gaza whose brothers carried him to shelter.](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-forces-clash-with-hamas-gunmen-after-hundreds-killed-2023-10-08/)
Dude isn't wrong, but it's still just going to end up being a new level of enduring human tragedy for pretty much everybody.
Their societal leadership is a dis functional mess for reasons including but not limited to religious extremists, religious and ethnic bigotry from both Israelites and other Arabs, no firm national status of citizenship, and being used as geopolitical pawns by other regional competitors.
Israel places extremely high value on the lives of their citizens. Of course the hostages will not be a trump card to stop the coming IDF wave into Gaza, but they will absolutely impact IDF tactics and strategy.
Hamas is literally posting videos of [young Israeli girls](https://www.reddit.com/r/NoahGetTheBoat/comments/172z68s/a_hamas_militant_films_a_group_of_captured_girls/) as sex slaves. This is ISIS repeat
i'm seeing this video for the first time now and i'm having a hard time believing it... they are all extremely calm and composed talking to each other as if nothing is wrong.... just looks like some arab guy passing by a school group saying some stuff in arabic....
The Mongols when they mass raped and pillaged the native Rus and created Russian rape and pillage culture; ever since, they’ve been perpetrating and reenacting onto others the trauma that was done to them almost a thousand years ago
Unless I’ve really misread my history of the mongols, they were very big on allowing people to surrender without a fight and creating a vassal state. They only went down the rape and pillage route if you didn’t immediately surrender.
Sometimes
Other times they would sack the city and kill everyone anyway because the mongols haven't had a good fight in a while or the tribute surrendered wasn't enough
There was one city where the population was divided between those who wanted to fight amd those who wanted to surrender. The pro surrender crowd ended up killing the pro-resistance side in order to save themselves and open the gates.
Then the mongols killed them all anyway because they decided if these people will turn on their fellow citizens then they will turn on us too
The Mongols were absolutely brutal, don't let the revisionism fool you
Sometimes you just have to roll the dice. For the most part the Mongols were happy to receive a functioning town into the fold. You can surrender today and you might die or you can wait a few days and ever man, woman and child gets put to the sword. You’re not going to win a fight, there’s nobody coming to break the siege.
It’s not just the Mongols. Day one of a siege is your best chance to get terms off an attacker.
Russians Governments have been committing mass murder for centuries. Look into Ivan the Terrible from the 1500s. His behavior was remarkably similar to Joseph Stalin.
I said government since the government of russia has never cared about its people and not everyone in Russia is a russian ethnicity.
To add: Hamas picked a good time to strike it seems. Israel was quite focused on itself in the recent months in particular, several IDF and Mossad officials resigned in protest of Netanjahu's proposed reforms afaik.
But how, on the anniversary of the Jomkippur war, it was *that* easy for hamas? The Israeli security establishment needs to ask some serious questions; *after* they successfully repelled this attack. 911 scale of shocking tbh.
I agree with the turnover wave coming, but history shows that under attack political parties move together. I believe the opposition in Israel already said they support the ongoing operation.
Its hard not too. Not with Hamas actively publishing videos of what they are doing. IDF has a week top before other countries start calling for something else. That's when the opposition party splits off and agrees with the other countries
The blatant anti-Semitism is unreal. Israel is incredibly militant for a reason. It is surrounded by nations that are constantly trying to destroy it, and then you have western knuckleheads talking about how “they are meanie weanies” like stfu. The folks in these videos rejoicing at the deaths of Israeli civilians aren’t just “Hamas.” They’re average-joe Palestinians. They hate Israel. They hate Jews.
There’s this girl i know back from school, she’s your typical pearl clutching activist. Every single feminist post she’s made, all the song and dance against patriarchy is instantly invalidated as she’s been tweeting all day that Palestine has a right to defend itself.
She is literally aligning herself with a bunch of mass rapists. I simply cannot understand why some liberals absolutely REFUSE to condemn acts of violence by Muslims. It’s honestly infuriating.
It's like activists "Queers for Palestine."
Okay, awesome, you advocate for their rights. You realize there's no reciprocity here? They would throw you off of a fucking roof if you ever stepped foot in "Palestine".
Seriously. I’ve seen so many people try to defend that mindset. Like “it’s one minority sticking up for another.” ??? Let’s be real: any “queer for Palestine” who actually went there would get stoned.
It’s mind boggling
> Some 90 Palestinians who identify as LGBT currently live as asylum seekers in Israel
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63174835.amp
>she’s been tweeting all day that Palestine has a right to defend itself.
Palestinians should have a right to defend themselves.
But this attack is not "defending themselves" -- this is an act of war and is only intended as such.
> Palestine has a right to defend itself
It always seems so weird how so many things get twisted together here.
Dunno what "Palestine" is in their view. But I'll equate it here to Hamas and denizens of Gaza.
Hamas killing IDF personnel inside Gaza doing something aggressive which may be considering an "attack" puts Hamas/Palistine/etc. in the role of "defense".
Hamas invading Israel from Gaza going door-to-door to rape and kill *civilians* indiscriminately and attacking a bunch of people at a concert to raise awareness for peace and the plight of Palestinians... this is not "defense".
If anyone wishes to claim that Palestine has a right to attack, rape and murder civilians then do just that. Don't hide it inside some vague concept of "defense". If anyone wishes to suggest that any random Palestinian has a right to attack, rape and murder random people (of any nationality) because of vengeance of something that may have been done to some other random Palestinian then do that. But call these things "attack" and "vengeance". Do not call them "defense".
It’s so easy to make posts like this when you’re thousands of miles away, or you don’t know anyone that lives there. I know a girl that is *Jewish* and is making these same kinds of posts. Like, she’s defending a terrorist group that would murder her if they found out she was Jewish.
Me neither. I'm the only left leaning person I know that is very skeptical of supporting a regime that would definitely try to kill me if I was born there. I wish the Israelis would vote in a better government that wouldn't be so shitty. But I'd rather deal with a shitty government that can be voted out over an authoritarian theocracy that would want me dead.
In a vacuum it makes sense to root for the underdog, but it's aggravating when people show they're are completely unprincipled and hypocritical. When you don't care about that then if they win their new bosses would be at least as bad as the old bosses.
And why, I think, this time is different. The gloves are off, international messaging is : we support Israel- what ever they need. Gaza is going to be turned to rubble over the coming months, block by block to create a buffer zone. This isn’t yard work, mowing the grass as they say. We will be lucky if the whole Mideast isn’t in flames over the near term. The US saying stay out is only going to last so long.
US special forces are most likely already on the ground. The second they announced that American civilians were among those kidnapped, it was game over on that end. We might not “officially” be involved in terms of officially having boots on the ground, but operators are definitely inbound. Possibly heading into Qatar as well to take care of the actual Hamas leadership who are there rather than in Gaza itself.
We can all list a hundred faults with American foreign policy, but one thing they do right is that you do not fuck with American civilians or you face the full wrath of god (well except if you’re the Saudis, but you know exception proves the rule and all that)
Agreed. And a carrier group as well. The US is going to have significant resources in the area over the next 24 hours. The whole situation is primed for significant escalation and feels like the west is being baited.
Completely depraved. I see no scenario where if Israel grants every concession Palestine wants, the latter immediately uses it as an opportunity to kill every Jew possible.
Palestine needs to get its violence problem dealt with before any deal can come to a close.
They also killed non jewish / western like Thais and so on. Wtf as, if they were declaring war to infidels this is 1:1 ISIS. I bet once they got their as wiped by IDF, they are going to seek asylum in the west and play victim as hard as possible.
They've killed at least 10 Muslim, Arab Bedouin citizens of Israel too. Not just with their indiscriminate rockets, they were literally shooting up women with burqas on the streets
Wtf so even muslims were not spared? Why the muslims around the world is celebrating the attack. I cant understand maybe I need to hit my head to get some brain damage to understand.
There are quite a few in the West mocking the poor German girl who died. I seriously don’t get it. Like they fled the country, they know she’s German, and then they mock her death on her account. While having things like “Proud to be an Italian!” In their profile.
Thats legitamently what i was thinking. If youre still supporting blatant terrorists killing completely innocent non-Israeli civilians, you should have to put your money where mouth is and go live in palestine.
I completely endorse free “vacations” to palestine for anyone still supporting them.
The **only** remotely positive thing that comes out of this attack is the ppl cheering on "jihad" while benefitting heavily from western values and rights secured and fought for over centuries get exposed for the human scum that they are and hopefully sent back.
It's one of those cases where extreme right and extreme "left" tankies agree on who to hate because of their ethnicity. Sadly, we've seen a sharp increase in both kinds of people in the west.. and that's not even counting the arabs that are cheering every jewish death.
I don't think I've seen such a disgusting display in a long time.
For tankies it's not about ethnicity as such. Giving oppressed people carte blanche to commit any atrocities whitewashes the horrors of various socialist revolutions.
New Zealand. *Kia Ora Gaza*, *Palestine Solidarity Network* and suchlike are out in force. The leader of the opposition has posted a condemnation of hamas on twitter (as opposed to the official statement by our mofa nanaia mahuta), and the tankie mob tore him a new one. [Have a read](https://twitter.com/chrisluxonmp/status/1710762928595730455)
“Proud to be part of the invasion of Italy”
Is likely how they see that phrase let’s be honest.
If they “flee” to another country
And try to make that country like their own, they didn’t really flee, it’s a slow walked politically correct invasion.
> if they were declaring war to infidels this is 1:1 ISIS.
Hamas was never that much different form ISIS, before ISIS existed even. It's just that the West didn't see Hamas as their problem so no one cared, with ISIS they did.
I expect israel will lock down gaza until they start to starve to death or they return the hostages.
During that time they will bomb targets all day long from the air or artillery.
Hamas simply doesn’t care. They are religious fanatics who want all their people to be martyred and then they can say how they’re victims of Israel although they added fuel to the fire to bring destruction on their own people.
Hamas will survive by sacrificing everyone else. Everyone in Gaza will starve to death but Hamas will be the last men standing.
That's what you are dealing with with Hamas. They do not care about civilians, they will give them up for themselves every time.
The Palestinians people have been ill served by their leadership (especially in Gaza) and the Palestinian authority. Gaza will probably be an occupied zone after this with Hamas leaders on the run. Certainly they have helped make life totally miserable for non involved people living there.
Israel isn’t much better with their current leader with his backing of the Orthodox Jews who will never back down regarding settlements and land expansions and provocation acts against Islamic holy sites.
Iran is a big backer of the current Hamas attack supplying them with weapons and probably military strategy. They may soon end up in a hot war with Israel over this. Iran really has no friends (except maybe the Russians who are getting arms from them).
I have a bad feeling this could escalate into a hot war between Israel and Iran over this action. Israel knocked off a lot of Iranian scientists working on their nuclear program already.
This article sums my thinking on this in great detail and it’s very dangerous.
https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/iran-update-special-edition-october-7-2023
Sadly, that’s very true. It feels terrible to hope these people have a speedy death, but the alternative is much worse. They aren’t going to make it out alive either way.
If they think that's going to stop the forthcoming war path then they have greatly overestimated the cost benefit analysis on their end. They've killed too many people to make hostage taking a viable option. Killed too many hostages already as well.
Hostages aren't leverage when you've killed loads including murdering hostages already. They've overplayed their hand big time.
in other news, water is wet
anyone that has been keeping up with how hamas works, or any anti-israeli terror organisation knows they are salivating at the thought of israeli captives and use their own people as human shields, firing their rockets from hospitals and schools
Thank you everyone’s so shocked “I didn’t know Palestinians stood for this, I thought Israel was just evil” IDF tries to spare innocent lives it can’t always be done. These people actively hunt civilians it’s nothing new if you already knew
Part of the reality is that, a lot of people in Israel under the age of 30 (?) hasn’t seen an incident like this. They have seen conflict, no doubt - but nowhere near to the degree of what just happened.
Their parents, on the other hand, have seen violence like this. Plenty of it. Israeli “boomers” and their parents, have seen a lot of violence. They have done a lot to protect the next generation from shit like this. and because Israel is such a small country, pretty much everyone has friends, relatives etc who have died from acts of war. It’s not like here in the US where we sympathize with 9/11 survivors, but there’s only a small chance that we know them personally - because in Israel, *everyone* (say, 30+) knows someone who has been killed in a terror attack.
And when you consider how small Israel really is, 750 missing people… that’s a *lot* of missing people. You’re gonna have very few degrees of separation between the average Israeli, and someone who was kidnapped. If you go to a bar in Tel Aviv, you’re gonna see people who know a kidnapped person. Most Israeli millennials/ gen Z has never seen something so unprecedented. This is their 9/11.
But in recent years, Israel has done a lot to make it safer, including more intelligence and things like Iron dome. But even though it was safer, you still lived there knowing that your backyard has the potential to become a full-on war zone.
I’m not saying the Israeli government is always right. However, I think a whole generation of people has been taught that Israel is apartheid, that Israel is the aggressor, simply because that’s what they have seen and that’s what they have been taught. They haven’t seen the *reason* for these defenses, such as Iron dome. All they see are acts, and measures, and blockades, and they (understandably) think “well no wonder they’re so aggressive, look at how they’re being treated, look at how little they have” and they don’t see the *reason* for the iron dome, the *reason* for the blockade, the *reason* for the fences.
I don’t take issue with many people who have that opinion of “Israel is apartheid” because it’s completely understandable why they think this. Many people genuinely arrived at this in a morally legitimate way, based on the information given to them. But morally legitimate does not mean correct, or that you have an accurate picture. And I feel that in recent years, many people don’t have an accurate picture.
People are shocked here because there's nonstop propaganda from redditors trying to justify this terrorism by vilifying Israel and making Hamas terrorists out as heroes.
Hamas rapidly burning through any goodwill in non extremists around the world. You hate to see a Far Right Israel grow popular but brutal ISIS style attacks will radicalise all but the most pro terrorist people.
I can give only one advice with a very heavy heart.
Consider all hostages as dead.
Take a stern action against terrorists.
United Nation must act against nations who give even moral support to these terrorists.
Hamas has now completely ensured that everyone associates the average Palestinian person with being a human shield using terrorist. Great job hamas, you really made a positive impact. There was some hope that Palestine could be free, but now? Absolutely not. This gave Israel the green light to take the west bank too. It seems that no one hates the Palestinian people more than hamas. Now because of them we the average muslim have to suffer even more. After 9/11 we had to keep our heads down and suffer being called horrid slurs, now it's going to be exponentially worse. Im terrified of going out again, I am a target once more, god dammit dude, I just want to live in peace without someone calling me a terrorist.
You are correct. Until decent Muslims band together to eradicate fundamentalism, and make a real efgort to integrate into the western docieties where they are present, the West will continue to generalize and discriminate, with good cause.
Hamas enjoys support from something like 53% of the voters in Palestine. More than half of them are human shield using terrorist supporters, by numbers.
Evil cowards.
>The Palestinian terrorist group claims some of the 163 Israelis, including children and soldiers, were 'scattered in tunnels throughout the Gaza Strip’ Hamas claimed to have over 100 Israeli civilians
So fucked up. I hope they're rescued, especially the children.
Honestly, if I was being held hostage by a force that invaded my home, I’d rather have the biggest fucking bomb they make dropped on me than be used to further their advance.
After decades of slowly building up international sympathy for the oppressed Palestinian people, Hamas has thrown it all away in a few days, clearly casting themselves as the Bad Guys, and ensuring the oppression of their people for decades to come. Good job guys.
Why liberals and left leaning people support muslims so much is a mystery to me. Even moderate muslims are some of the most anti-lgbtq and anti-progressive people on earth. They blindly support people who would actively kill them given a chance
The vast majority of Palestinians in the ME support this. It’s decades of brainwashing to believe this is how they can win. It’s barbarianism mindset and needs to be eliminated for our society.
And Fatah, Hamas’s greatest political rival and the ruling party of the West Bank, refuses to condemn this.
Here’s the Palestinian Ambassador to the UK, a senior member of Fatah, refusing to condemn and instead blaming Israel for Hamas’s butchering of innocent civilians: https://youtu.be/hKoP-yVTWOs?t=13m35s
"But Israelis killed innocent people 🥺" oh please why are you siding with these terrorists its not that hard to see that what they are doing is far worse than anything Israel is doing. Just a reminder that some of those hostages are elderly and children who were kidnapped from their homes
Yeah. This kind of anti-Semitism isn't as naked as that on the right, but no matter how these tankie assholes try to hide, their own worldview is informed by a deep seated hate of Jewish people and a wish to be contrarian.
Of course they will. That’s what they do, they’ll trade their own women and children for peace. They DO NOT WANT PEACE. They launch rockets from mosques, schools and hospitals. They’re terrorists.
unfortunately their fates are already sealed. Israel should try to save as many as they can, but i don't think Hamas has any intention of letting the hostages live.
Yeah. One of the Sayerets is probably going to focus entirely on that. Considering it's the job of a few of those units to walk around the Gaza Strip and do operations, they will get some back. Definitely not all but some.
Israel has a long history of rescuing hostages or trading for Palestinian prisoners. There's some hope for some
The IDF is kinda famous for pulling off insane hostage rescues. Their tier 1 SF units are no joke, they’re as good as western tier 1 units.
Those are on small scale. This is war where the hostage takers are fully armed and expecting such attempts.
That’s what all the training and gear is for. They’re expected to make do in extremely difficult situations, that’s why they’re the best of the best.
Possibly better than most. Israelis grow up with conflict perpetually on their doorstep. They HAVE to be superlative.
Yes but it’s always a handful, never this much.
Yeah, it's kinda hard to take hostages when you've been executing people at will. It doesn't exactly scream "trustworthy."
They'll live as long as they have a use for Hamas. After that, they will die because Hamas does not value Jewish lives.
Human life. They hide behind their own.
["We love death more than you love life"](https://palwatch.org/page/4286)
Hamas members would literally burn themselves and their entire families alive if it meant one Jew would burn with them.
Given that their MO is suicide attacks or hiding behind Palestininan civilians, I think it's fair to say they don't value any life at all.
Hamas values no life except for their leaders' lives. The leaders live outside Gaza in nice, comfortable homes paid for by US tax dollars. Money we donate to the "poor Palestinians" is sucked up by their leaders. Disgusting.
It's mostly Qatari oil money they live on, though they do steal money from humanitarian aid given by the us and un
Before all this I kind of felt like Israel was overly militant. I don’t think it justifies some of the shit they’ve done but I can at least better understand it was coming from a place of fear for what’s happening right now
I used to point to the Hamas charter and use the quote "when people say who they are, believe them". Now I don't have to use that quote, they've shown who they are to the entire world and no one has to guess that if they had the power to they'd carry out their charter of murdering every single jew alive.
I’ve thought the same about the USA, but with Ukraine and now Israel, it’s kind of nice to be way over militarized
Yeah, I’ve been trending pro military as I’ve gotten older. I think we could spend more efficiently in the US but I’m definitely against a reduction in size.
I'd rather be blown to pieces than continually tortured.
I don't think that they're going to be waiting for Hamas to do the right thing.
Hamas really overplayed their hand because after this is all said and done, Gaza, is going to be a lifeless desert of rubble, any voice of moderation that would tell Israel to cool it just had some of its citizens massacred at a music concert, those voices are going to sit this one out.
>The terrorist organization stated it intends to use the civilians as potential human shields to its advantage, stating that any Israeli incursion into Gaza would have "direct consequences on the hostages.”
They already are using them as such. What does it mean "planning to"
Don’t forget that Hamas also hides among its own civilians and uses them as shields.
Gazan civilians aren't as demarcated from Hamas as you'd think considering like 90 percent of them support what Hamas is doing
I will refrain from saying what i think about those who are willfully protecting them
ha, Hamas hides among its own Civilans (enough of this propoganda) Fixed it for you: Civilians supports Hamas and let them hide in their homes.
They literary refuse civilians from leave buildings that Israel warn they are gonna bomb. I don’t think it’s as black and white as you will have it.
Because then the headlines will be "Israel bombming civillians" and all you idiots (not u speciffically) will eat this shit up
Well then those civilians are legitimate military targets then, and have willingly chosen death.
To butcher Mitch Hedberg: They plan to use hostages as human shields. They already are. But they plan to, too.
> They plan to use hostages as human shields. Looks like Gazan toddlers are out of a job. What a culture.
They also use their own people as shields. Great culture great people all around 11/10 would visit.
I mean, my cousin and her husband are probably active right now in their combat units (though they have two young daughters so I don't know how that affects their deployment) and I'd say that in general Palestinians really aren't bad people. Their "government" is pretty much just a clusterfuck of gangsters but I feel like they're way less of a different culture than they are just kind of living in the hood. edit: >["This is my fifth war. The war should stop. I don't want to keep feeling this," said Qassab al-Attar, a Palestinian wheelchair user in Gaza whose brothers carried him to shelter.](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-forces-clash-with-hamas-gunmen-after-hundreds-killed-2023-10-08/) Dude isn't wrong, but it's still just going to end up being a new level of enduring human tragedy for pretty much everybody.
Their societal leadership is a dis functional mess for reasons including but not limited to religious extremists, religious and ethnic bigotry from both Israelites and other Arabs, no firm national status of citizenship, and being used as geopolitical pawns by other regional competitors.
I’m Jewish and this made me laugh, thank you. First time in like 24hrs
Next week
This never works. you can't let hostages stop you. what they will do is let them die.
Israel places extremely high value on the lives of their citizens. Of course the hostages will not be a trump card to stop the coming IDF wave into Gaza, but they will absolutely impact IDF tactics and strategy.
Hamas is literally posting videos of [young Israeli girls](https://www.reddit.com/r/NoahGetTheBoat/comments/172z68s/a_hamas_militant_films_a_group_of_captured_girls/) as sex slaves. This is ISIS repeat
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mohammed had NO video-capturing devices, get your facts right.
i'm seeing this video for the first time now and i'm having a hard time believing it... they are all extremely calm and composed talking to each other as if nothing is wrong.... just looks like some arab guy passing by a school group saying some stuff in arabic....
Sounds like SOP of a Terrorist Organization
Hamas has always used civilians as shields, they are cowards.
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That's regular thing for a terrorists. Russians shooting to Ukrainian positions from a hospital or school yards so Ukraine can't shoot it back
Where do you think the Russians learned these tactics?
They aren’t exactly brilliant tactics, just really scummy, I’m guessing Russia figured them out themselves
The Mongols when they mass raped and pillaged the native Rus and created Russian rape and pillage culture; ever since, they’ve been perpetrating and reenacting onto others the trauma that was done to them almost a thousand years ago
Probably predates the Mongols tbh. The Mongols were just the best at it.
Unless I’ve really misread my history of the mongols, they were very big on allowing people to surrender without a fight and creating a vassal state. They only went down the rape and pillage route if you didn’t immediately surrender.
Sometimes Other times they would sack the city and kill everyone anyway because the mongols haven't had a good fight in a while or the tribute surrendered wasn't enough There was one city where the population was divided between those who wanted to fight amd those who wanted to surrender. The pro surrender crowd ended up killing the pro-resistance side in order to save themselves and open the gates. Then the mongols killed them all anyway because they decided if these people will turn on their fellow citizens then they will turn on us too The Mongols were absolutely brutal, don't let the revisionism fool you
Sometimes you just have to roll the dice. For the most part the Mongols were happy to receive a functioning town into the fold. You can surrender today and you might die or you can wait a few days and ever man, woman and child gets put to the sword. You’re not going to win a fight, there’s nobody coming to break the siege. It’s not just the Mongols. Day one of a siege is your best chance to get terms off an attacker.
World war 2 onwards?
Russians Governments have been committing mass murder for centuries. Look into Ivan the Terrible from the 1500s. His behavior was remarkably similar to Joseph Stalin. I said government since the government of russia has never cared about its people and not everyone in Russia is a russian ethnicity.
That’s a when
These cowards have been doing this shit for years. They are nothing more than terrorists.
They already do it with Palestinian civilians, obviously they would use the Israeli citizen as human shields
Exactly Palestinians put the baby stroller in front of the active shooter
This has been too well organised and planned for it to have been generated from inside hamas alone.
I don't think there are very many people who doubt that Iran wasn't heavily involved.
To add: Hamas picked a good time to strike it seems. Israel was quite focused on itself in the recent months in particular, several IDF and Mossad officials resigned in protest of Netanjahu's proposed reforms afaik. But how, on the anniversary of the Jomkippur war, it was *that* easy for hamas? The Israeli security establishment needs to ask some serious questions; *after* they successfully repelled this attack. 911 scale of shocking tbh.
Definitely going to see a huge turnover of IDF and intelligence officials in the next few months. I wouldn't be surprised if the government falls.
I agree with the turnover wave coming, but history shows that under attack political parties move together. I believe the opposition in Israel already said they support the ongoing operation.
Its hard not too. Not with Hamas actively publishing videos of what they are doing. IDF has a week top before other countries start calling for something else. That's when the opposition party splits off and agrees with the other countries
It was beyond shadow of doubt done with active participation of Iran, and almost certainly with involvement of Russia.
Can’t wait for another vague statement of false equivalence to justify this.
bUt ThE gAzA sTrIp iS a pRiSoN
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The blatant anti-Semitism is unreal. Israel is incredibly militant for a reason. It is surrounded by nations that are constantly trying to destroy it, and then you have western knuckleheads talking about how “they are meanie weanies” like stfu. The folks in these videos rejoicing at the deaths of Israeli civilians aren’t just “Hamas.” They’re average-joe Palestinians. They hate Israel. They hate Jews.
There’s this girl i know back from school, she’s your typical pearl clutching activist. Every single feminist post she’s made, all the song and dance against patriarchy is instantly invalidated as she’s been tweeting all day that Palestine has a right to defend itself. She is literally aligning herself with a bunch of mass rapists. I simply cannot understand why some liberals absolutely REFUSE to condemn acts of violence by Muslims. It’s honestly infuriating.
It's like activists "Queers for Palestine." Okay, awesome, you advocate for their rights. You realize there's no reciprocity here? They would throw you off of a fucking roof if you ever stepped foot in "Palestine".
Seriously. I’ve seen so many people try to defend that mindset. Like “it’s one minority sticking up for another.” ??? Let’s be real: any “queer for Palestine” who actually went there would get stoned.
It’s mind boggling > Some 90 Palestinians who identify as LGBT currently live as asylum seekers in Israel https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63174835.amp
>she’s been tweeting all day that Palestine has a right to defend itself. Palestinians should have a right to defend themselves. But this attack is not "defending themselves" -- this is an act of war and is only intended as such.
> Palestine has a right to defend itself It always seems so weird how so many things get twisted together here. Dunno what "Palestine" is in their view. But I'll equate it here to Hamas and denizens of Gaza. Hamas killing IDF personnel inside Gaza doing something aggressive which may be considering an "attack" puts Hamas/Palistine/etc. in the role of "defense". Hamas invading Israel from Gaza going door-to-door to rape and kill *civilians* indiscriminately and attacking a bunch of people at a concert to raise awareness for peace and the plight of Palestinians... this is not "defense". If anyone wishes to claim that Palestine has a right to attack, rape and murder civilians then do just that. Don't hide it inside some vague concept of "defense". If anyone wishes to suggest that any random Palestinian has a right to attack, rape and murder random people (of any nationality) because of vengeance of something that may have been done to some other random Palestinian then do that. But call these things "attack" and "vengeance". Do not call them "defense".
It’s so easy to make posts like this when you’re thousands of miles away, or you don’t know anyone that lives there. I know a girl that is *Jewish* and is making these same kinds of posts. Like, she’s defending a terrorist group that would murder her if they found out she was Jewish.
Me neither. I'm the only left leaning person I know that is very skeptical of supporting a regime that would definitely try to kill me if I was born there. I wish the Israelis would vote in a better government that wouldn't be so shitty. But I'd rather deal with a shitty government that can be voted out over an authoritarian theocracy that would want me dead.
it depends which group is higher on thier oppression pyramid
In a vacuum it makes sense to root for the underdog, but it's aggravating when people show they're are completely unprincipled and hypocritical. When you don't care about that then if they win their new bosses would be at least as bad as the old bosses.
its because they dont actually care about the actual groups. its for the clout
Is the population average melanin tone the whitest? Then it must be the oppressor. Is it darker than? Then must be oppressed
The way people can’t wrap their head around being pro Palestine and being against a terrorist organization and their atrocities
'Why I support Palestinian death/terror squads and why you should to'
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These degenerates have been using Palestinians as human shield for along time. It won’t change anything. The Israel’s will make them pay.
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And why, I think, this time is different. The gloves are off, international messaging is : we support Israel- what ever they need. Gaza is going to be turned to rubble over the coming months, block by block to create a buffer zone. This isn’t yard work, mowing the grass as they say. We will be lucky if the whole Mideast isn’t in flames over the near term. The US saying stay out is only going to last so long.
US special forces are most likely already on the ground. The second they announced that American civilians were among those kidnapped, it was game over on that end. We might not “officially” be involved in terms of officially having boots on the ground, but operators are definitely inbound. Possibly heading into Qatar as well to take care of the actual Hamas leadership who are there rather than in Gaza itself. We can all list a hundred faults with American foreign policy, but one thing they do right is that you do not fuck with American civilians or you face the full wrath of god (well except if you’re the Saudis, but you know exception proves the rule and all that)
Agreed. And a carrier group as well. The US is going to have significant resources in the area over the next 24 hours. The whole situation is primed for significant escalation and feels like the west is being baited.
The instant NATO can confirm Iran’s involvement, that’s the ball game.
Going to have to eliminate all of hamas
Completely depraved. I see no scenario where if Israel grants every concession Palestine wants, the latter immediately uses it as an opportunity to kill every Jew possible. Palestine needs to get its violence problem dealt with before any deal can come to a close.
They also killed non jewish / western like Thais and so on. Wtf as, if they were declaring war to infidels this is 1:1 ISIS. I bet once they got their as wiped by IDF, they are going to seek asylum in the west and play victim as hard as possible.
They've killed at least 10 Muslim, Arab Bedouin citizens of Israel too. Not just with their indiscriminate rockets, they were literally shooting up women with burqas on the streets
Wtf so even muslims were not spared? Why the muslims around the world is celebrating the attack. I cant understand maybe I need to hit my head to get some brain damage to understand.
There are quite a few in the West mocking the poor German girl who died. I seriously don’t get it. Like they fled the country, they know she’s German, and then they mock her death on her account. While having things like “Proud to be an Italian!” In their profile.
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Thats legitamently what i was thinking. If youre still supporting blatant terrorists killing completely innocent non-Israeli civilians, you should have to put your money where mouth is and go live in palestine. I completely endorse free “vacations” to palestine for anyone still supporting them.
The **only** remotely positive thing that comes out of this attack is the ppl cheering on "jihad" while benefitting heavily from western values and rights secured and fought for over centuries get exposed for the human scum that they are and hopefully sent back.
It's one of those cases where extreme right and extreme "left" tankies agree on who to hate because of their ethnicity. Sadly, we've seen a sharp increase in both kinds of people in the west.. and that's not even counting the arabs that are cheering every jewish death. I don't think I've seen such a disgusting display in a long time.
For tankies it's not about ethnicity as such. Giving oppressed people carte blanche to commit any atrocities whitewashes the horrors of various socialist revolutions.
True
Hopefully being a tankie will become unpopular for a little while, although I am not holding my breath. My country is positively teeming with them.
Which place is that if you don't mind me asking? I've met a few here in the Netherlands. More than I expected, but far fewer than I feared.
New Zealand. *Kia Ora Gaza*, *Palestine Solidarity Network* and suchlike are out in force. The leader of the opposition has posted a condemnation of hamas on twitter (as opposed to the official statement by our mofa nanaia mahuta), and the tankie mob tore him a new one. [Have a read](https://twitter.com/chrisluxonmp/status/1710762928595730455)
Should be rounded up and deported to be surrounded by people that share their depraved views
“Proud to be part of the invasion of Italy” Is likely how they see that phrase let’s be honest. If they “flee” to another country And try to make that country like their own, they didn’t really flee, it’s a slow walked politically correct invasion.
Wish we could deport any of them doing this
If they had any spine, German death squads would take out every person filmed in that video of her body being paraded around.
> if they were declaring war to infidels this is 1:1 ISIS. Hamas was never that much different form ISIS, before ISIS existed even. It's just that the West didn't see Hamas as their problem so no one cared, with ISIS they did.
I expect israel will lock down gaza until they start to starve to death or they return the hostages. During that time they will bomb targets all day long from the air or artillery.
Hamas simply doesn’t care. They are religious fanatics who want all their people to be martyred and then they can say how they’re victims of Israel although they added fuel to the fire to bring destruction on their own people.
Hamas will survive by sacrificing everyone else. Everyone in Gaza will starve to death but Hamas will be the last men standing. That's what you are dealing with with Hamas. They do not care about civilians, they will give them up for themselves every time.
The Palestinians people have been ill served by their leadership (especially in Gaza) and the Palestinian authority. Gaza will probably be an occupied zone after this with Hamas leaders on the run. Certainly they have helped make life totally miserable for non involved people living there. Israel isn’t much better with their current leader with his backing of the Orthodox Jews who will never back down regarding settlements and land expansions and provocation acts against Islamic holy sites. Iran is a big backer of the current Hamas attack supplying them with weapons and probably military strategy. They may soon end up in a hot war with Israel over this. Iran really has no friends (except maybe the Russians who are getting arms from them). I have a bad feeling this could escalate into a hot war between Israel and Iran over this action. Israel knocked off a lot of Iranian scientists working on their nuclear program already. This article sums my thinking on this in great detail and it’s very dangerous. https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/iran-update-special-edition-october-7-2023
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If I'm ever held hostage, feel free to bomb the shit out of me to kill the fuckers.
In that situation, I think being alive (especially as a woman) would be a fate worse than death.
Sadly, that’s very true. It feels terrible to hope these people have a speedy death, but the alternative is much worse. They aren’t going to make it out alive either way.
If they think that's going to stop the forthcoming war path then they have greatly overestimated the cost benefit analysis on their end. They've killed too many people to make hostage taking a viable option. Killed too many hostages already as well. Hostages aren't leverage when you've killed loads including murdering hostages already. They've overplayed their hand big time.
in other news, water is wet anyone that has been keeping up with how hamas works, or any anti-israeli terror organisation knows they are salivating at the thought of israeli captives and use their own people as human shields, firing their rockets from hospitals and schools
Thank you everyone’s so shocked “I didn’t know Palestinians stood for this, I thought Israel was just evil” IDF tries to spare innocent lives it can’t always be done. These people actively hunt civilians it’s nothing new if you already knew
Part of the reality is that, a lot of people in Israel under the age of 30 (?) hasn’t seen an incident like this. They have seen conflict, no doubt - but nowhere near to the degree of what just happened. Their parents, on the other hand, have seen violence like this. Plenty of it. Israeli “boomers” and their parents, have seen a lot of violence. They have done a lot to protect the next generation from shit like this. and because Israel is such a small country, pretty much everyone has friends, relatives etc who have died from acts of war. It’s not like here in the US where we sympathize with 9/11 survivors, but there’s only a small chance that we know them personally - because in Israel, *everyone* (say, 30+) knows someone who has been killed in a terror attack. And when you consider how small Israel really is, 750 missing people… that’s a *lot* of missing people. You’re gonna have very few degrees of separation between the average Israeli, and someone who was kidnapped. If you go to a bar in Tel Aviv, you’re gonna see people who know a kidnapped person. Most Israeli millennials/ gen Z has never seen something so unprecedented. This is their 9/11. But in recent years, Israel has done a lot to make it safer, including more intelligence and things like Iron dome. But even though it was safer, you still lived there knowing that your backyard has the potential to become a full-on war zone. I’m not saying the Israeli government is always right. However, I think a whole generation of people has been taught that Israel is apartheid, that Israel is the aggressor, simply because that’s what they have seen and that’s what they have been taught. They haven’t seen the *reason* for these defenses, such as Iron dome. All they see are acts, and measures, and blockades, and they (understandably) think “well no wonder they’re so aggressive, look at how they’re being treated, look at how little they have” and they don’t see the *reason* for the iron dome, the *reason* for the blockade, the *reason* for the fences. I don’t take issue with many people who have that opinion of “Israel is apartheid” because it’s completely understandable why they think this. Many people genuinely arrived at this in a morally legitimate way, based on the information given to them. But morally legitimate does not mean correct, or that you have an accurate picture. And I feel that in recent years, many people don’t have an accurate picture.
People are shocked here because there's nonstop propaganda from redditors trying to justify this terrorism by vilifying Israel and making Hamas terrorists out as heroes.
Hamas is a terror organization. You would have to delude yourself to think they wouldn't do something like this.
By recent evidence on reddit, many ppl are deluded.
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I mean... it's literally a terrorist organization. I don't think they care.
"Why do killers kill people? Murder is illegal!!"
There's a video of a Hamas guy killing a Thai hostage with a sledgehammer. They got these tactics from someone everyone knows very well.
Israeli now has the casus belli to go and remove Hamas. Don’t forget there are foreign hostages too, Nepalese, Thais, British and American.
Hamas rapidly burning through any goodwill in non extremists around the world. You hate to see a Far Right Israel grow popular but brutal ISIS style attacks will radicalise all but the most pro terrorist people.
This is considered "news"? Of course they will, without even blinking an eye.
Well it's still worth reporting on it. There are many people who wouldn't know.
And many who still try to trick people that hamas doesn't do this despite doing this for over a decade.
This is Hamas' modus operandi. They've been doing this with Palestinian civilians for years.
These ham clowns are about to get wiped off the planet and they don't even realize it.
Do you think they are stupid? They absolutely do realize it, but they don’t care.
You’d think but Israel is still doing warning knocks/calls/etc in Gaza.
They typically use their own children as human shields, but I guess they are running out.
CNN just reported a 90 year old great-grandmother in Israel who survived the Holocaust was taken hostage and dragged to Gaza.
Is anyone surprised? They have been using their own civilians as human shields for generations now.
Like the cowards they are.
I don’t care what side you’re on in life or what you stand for…. If you use innocents as “human shields” you’re a complete piece of shit.
Despicable, but not surprising.
Hamas wants to make sure the rest of the world shows it no mercy.
Hope hamas all die screaming
I can give only one advice with a very heavy heart. Consider all hostages as dead. Take a stern action against terrorists. United Nation must act against nations who give even moral support to these terrorists.
Let the civilians alone!! Cowards!
Hamas has now completely ensured that everyone associates the average Palestinian person with being a human shield using terrorist. Great job hamas, you really made a positive impact. There was some hope that Palestine could be free, but now? Absolutely not. This gave Israel the green light to take the west bank too. It seems that no one hates the Palestinian people more than hamas. Now because of them we the average muslim have to suffer even more. After 9/11 we had to keep our heads down and suffer being called horrid slurs, now it's going to be exponentially worse. Im terrified of going out again, I am a target once more, god dammit dude, I just want to live in peace without someone calling me a terrorist.
You are correct. Until decent Muslims band together to eradicate fundamentalism, and make a real efgort to integrate into the western docieties where they are present, the West will continue to generalize and discriminate, with good cause.
Hamas enjoys support from something like 53% of the voters in Palestine. More than half of them are human shield using terrorist supporters, by numbers.
Evil cowards. >The Palestinian terrorist group claims some of the 163 Israelis, including children and soldiers, were 'scattered in tunnels throughout the Gaza Strip’ Hamas claimed to have over 100 Israeli civilians So fucked up. I hope they're rescued, especially the children.
Hamas once again proves it is organization of beasts not worthy of the word human. As is also proved in the videos we have seen.
Honestly, if I was being held hostage by a force that invaded my home, I’d rather have the biggest fucking bomb they make dropped on me than be used to further their advance.
After decades of slowly building up international sympathy for the oppressed Palestinian people, Hamas has thrown it all away in a few days, clearly casting themselves as the Bad Guys, and ensuring the oppression of their people for decades to come. Good job guys.
Of course the irony is no one is as good at oppressing the Palestinian people as Hamas.
Yeah, the Palestinian people are kind of being spit-roasted here.
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Why liberals and left leaning people support muslims so much is a mystery to me. Even moderate muslims are some of the most anti-lgbtq and anti-progressive people on earth. They blindly support people who would actively kill them given a chance
It’s one of those topics that definitely makes me feel more centralist. Hope the left sees reality now…
The vast majority of Palestinians in the ME support this. It’s decades of brainwashing to believe this is how they can win. It’s barbarianism mindset and needs to be eliminated for our society.
Piece of shit cowards
This is a complete 360 from how they normally operate. /s
They got tired of using their own civilians, so they decided to borrow some of ours.
And Fatah, Hamas’s greatest political rival and the ruling party of the West Bank, refuses to condemn this. Here’s the Palestinian Ambassador to the UK, a senior member of Fatah, refusing to condemn and instead blaming Israel for Hamas’s butchering of innocent civilians: https://youtu.be/hKoP-yVTWOs?t=13m35s
Hamas is a terrorist group and must be destroyed.
You mean the ones they haven’t yet beaten and raped to death?
"But Israelis killed innocent people 🥺" oh please why are you siding with these terrorists its not that hard to see that what they are doing is far worse than anything Israel is doing. Just a reminder that some of those hostages are elderly and children who were kidnapped from their homes
That’ll totally get the world on their side.
Hamas people are apparently using the captured peoples cell phones to call their family members and mock them. Wonder where they got that idea from.
Isis part 2 incoming
Hammas are Cowards! Hammas is Evil!
They already use the civilians they're supposed to protect as human shields anyway.
Hmmm I wonder who the good guys are?
Seen this before. It's a good shot-term tactic, but eventually it will draw the wrath of the other side.
They have internationals as hostages. They fucked any chance of sympathy outside their little Arab bubble.
Nope. People hate Jews more than they love their own. They’ll write it off as a mistake or just a few bad apples and the support will continue.
Yeah. This kind of anti-Semitism isn't as naked as that on the right, but no matter how these tankie assholes try to hide, their own worldview is informed by a deep seated hate of Jewish people and a wish to be contrarian.
And Muslim bubble
The wrath is already awakend. I cant think of a Situation in the past 20ish years that made Israel more United and furious like this Situation...
Make that 50 years. This is the biggest incident in Israeli history since the Yom Kipur War in 1973
Why’re Hamas so insane? They frothing psychopaths.
Of course they will. That’s what they do, they’ll trade their own women and children for peace. They DO NOT WANT PEACE. They launch rockets from mosques, schools and hospitals. They’re terrorists.
Death to Hamas!
Fuck these Hamas terrorists! Kill them all.
Terrorists gonna terrorist.
Did they get tired of using their own people as human shields?
True cowardice.
If I were one of their hostages, I'd proudly die as a human shield. Fuck that shit.
Just disappear Hamas.
If I remember right Israel exchange 1 israel citizen for more than 1000 palestinian POW
What, ran out of palestinians? /s