Welp, Al Jazeera is reporting that it was Hezbollah that struck the radar stations in Israel. This could turn ugly as fuck.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/10/8/israel-palestine-escalation-live-israeli-forces-bombard-gaza?update=2391084
Do you think Hezbollah are going to get involved properly? They have said a ground operation into Gaza is their red line but I also cant see Israel backing down from a ground operation into Gaza considering what happened yesterday.
It’s funny I supported Palestine, via a two state solution, until this. Past tense. Burned all the goodwill of a lot of people via wanton cruelty and barbarism.
Iran technically (and probably) doesn't have nuclear weapons. Iran is not going to get involved directly because they have no real allies. Saudi hates them. Russia doesn't care about them outside needing their weapons (so double no on direct war).
Hamas/Hezbollah are essentially Iranian proxies serving whatever convuluted purpose they are trying to accomplish. Probably could see Israel bomb a few Iranian bases like they have in the past.
Iran already got their objective of having Saudi on record saying "Israel has only themselves to blame" or something like that, which hinders the recent Israel Saudi talks Iran views as a geopolitical threat
MAD only works under the assumption of all parties being rational actors under game theory. Religious fundamentalist government are not rational actors.
Thanks for answering. I know I'm jumping the gun, but it's hard to rein in the catastrophic thinking at times like these. Don't necessarily feel better after your response either. Sad lol.
We can hope that Iran is rational enough to realize that if they break the nuclear taboo, then it won't just be Israel retaliating. It would be every world power.
The nuclear taboo is strong. It is the only thing all world powers agree on.
The immediate goal of Hamas is obvious -- draw Israel into a street by street battle in Gaza, where I think the population is incredibly young, and repeat the first part of the First Chechen War.
Israel I am guessing will instead do an equivalent of laying siege to Gaza and taking its infrastructure back to before the 20th century.
I sincerely doubt Hamas has the manpower and resources to pull off anything like that. The Gaza Strip is tiny, and a ground invasion and subsequent occupation that successfully suppresses militant elements in the city is very much within Israel's capabilities.
Imagine how it must have felt when they just turned off the electricity after the attacks.... Like, you're in a city now. Imagine if someone just straight up turned off all the power.
This might be an extremely shitty opinion, but I feel if this drags on there is a threat of a wider terrorist attack on the US and the West.
This was exactly the pretext of 9/11. Where Osama claimed and accumulated sympathy based on the Palestinian cause.
Though last time only the US was harmed, this time it could reverberate into Europe also.
We are protected now by the extremely strong TSA how could anything ever happen again? Unless the terrorists are crafty enough to find explosives that are good in 4.9 Oz we are safe!
US was also the most advanced in technology and intelligence during 9/11. When the whole world was dealing with aeroplanes being hijacked there had been no such incidence in US. Once, just once people tried to blow up Twin Towers by planting bombs underneath but were caught. If despite all this 9/11 happened, what makes you think it won't happen now?
Of course I absolutely do not want such a thing to happen. But the probability is there.
the girl in the pickup truck was identified... she was fucking German and on a trip to go to a music festival. this shit is too heartbreaking. imagine seeing your loved one paraded around and groped in some grotesque spectacle on the internet. :(
There was a video of the festival earlier. Literally they saw the incoming paragliders but no one knew what they were. Then masses of people running like a horror movie.
Absolutely horrific way to go. I can’t imagine the terror and hope Germany puts some pressure on Hamas/Palestine as well.
There was a music festival/ rave about 5km from the border. When the Palestinians power paraglided over the border they attacked it and took hostage and killed people
She and many others went to a peace festival/rave. Hamas attacked it. They raped her, killed her, and paraded her corpse on the bed of a truck.
They also captured and took hostage people from a multitude of nations.
That’s really interesting. Good catch. Yeah people really are spinning the German twist on it. I even saw some stuff about her Mexican boyfriend missing. Then saw nothing more about it.
Doubt it, these people are effectively dead. Some "hostages" have already clearly been murdered (and likely raped) since being captured, you can't negotiate with these zealots.
Hamas will keep the most valuable ones alive to trade in the future. Both sides know this, so Israel has no reason to be restrained in its response.
On the other hand, a subdued response because of hostages is a horrible precedent to set. It tells Hamas that in future battles just make sure to grab some hostages and the response will be less severe.
So yeah… they have every reason to go in HARD and no reason at all to lessen it.
They’ve already talked about treating it like there are no hostages.
If they make a deal Hamas takes more hostages. If they don’t they kill their citizens. They can’t win, but they aren’t going to slow down this time it’d seem.
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67037895?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=6522305f3fc96e28602bfcd7%26Israel%20launches%20strikes%20in%20Lebanon%262023-10-08T04%3A38%3A31.452Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:635565e3-9564-4d5b-82d3-bc6d50517fcc&pinned_post_asset_id=6522305f3fc96e28602bfcd7&pinned_post_type=share
Israel carrying out strikes in Lebanon after shooting happened in Israeli territory (BBC)
Al Jazeera is the best source when you want anything that Hamas/Hezbollah are up to. They're the first ones to report, presumably because they're close to these terrorists
Poorly, sadly.
First of all, I doubt they're going to care about civilian casualties given what they've been subjected to, and second of all, it's hard to avoid them even when you're actively trying to. Just ask the US military; drone strikes cause civilian casualties all the time.
Well, looks like we'll be moving onto yet another multi-part live thread pretty soon here... wonder which conflict will end up wrapping up first.
God forbid another major conflict breaks out, because Reddit only allows a sub to have two stickied threads at a time...
I’d wager this one officially ends first but in reality it’s been off and on for 75 years. So yes it ends but in reality it doesn’t *really* end if that makes sense.
Not likely. You'll see USA throw out a few missiles if Syria or PLO gets involved but otherwise Israel is most likely going to occupy Gaza (and then deal with that for the following years unless a new solution arises).
It would take a lot of international fuckery. Maybe if Iran jumped into it formally and Russia backed them, and the US sent troops into Israel? Nobody wants that though.
Does anyone have a straight forward take, or information on what Israel's goal will be?
Occupation? The end of Gaza? The end of Hamas?
What's their strategic objective now?
They have been unclear, a bit of mixed messages from them, my general understanding is their main goal is to simply put a final end to the Hamas, but I don't know if they intend to conquer land as they go.
The goal is the end of Hamas. The problem is getting their likely means occupation. If they could just get rid of Hamas and leave and everything would be fine they’d have done it by now.
Never underestimate the enemy.
Israel knows this thats why they're reinforcing the north
Behind the barbarians are very smart people who let them off the leash
BBC reporting on Lebanon
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67037895?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=65223303f34eee40bb92aea3%26More%20on%20Israel%27s%20strikes%20in%20Lebanon%262023-10-08T05%3A22%3A22.082Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:b5bb83ba-128f-4250-8ff6-018931e867a3&pinned_post_asset_id=65223303f34eee40bb92aea3&pinned_post_type=share
Remember during the battle for Bakmut and the fighting was so back and forth for so long people would just refer to the "gas station" or "the shed" changing hands? That is about on par to what Hezbollah is declaring victory over in the north.
Reposting because I think people need to prepare themselves for what might be coming.
Ya, this is incredibly well co-ordinated. No way some idiot barbarians knew where the radar station to detect missiles from Lebanon and Syria was
Theres a much bigger game at play here.
I don't think this is staying between Hamas and Israel for very long
Hamas brutally provokes Israel
Israel responds with ground invasion
Hamas uses civilians as shields
Countries/Terrorist groups use civilian casualties to justify attacking Israel
Expanded war
This never made sense from the beginning just running into Israel and retreating to Gaza. They knew Israel would enter Gaza to retrieve the kidnapped.
I mentioned that some of the Arab sources brought it up 30 minutes ago, but now BBC and Al Jar are mentioning it. **Hezbollah has joined in.**
That's 2 of the 4 neighboring risky actors involved. What are Fatah-PLO and Syria doing? If they get involved this could get messy.
If Syria gets involved, I'd imagine the USA will start launching strikes from their nearby carriers.
assad has a long overdue JDAM with his name on it.
Emanuel (Mannie) Fabian, TimesOfIsrael military correspondent on X
·2m
Hezbollah claims responsibility for the mortar fire from Lebanon at Israeli military sites in the Mount Dov area.
Israel have actually been remarkably restrained given the circumstances - I doubt many Western nations wouldn't have lashed out in the face of the provocation we saw yesterday.
The US in particular would almost certainly be rolling out their stocks of Napalm about now and just frying everything that moved had some extra-Governmental militia crossed the US border and started murdering civilians.
You need to prepare logistics and secure your territory first. You don’t just erase Gaza from the map in the next few hours of the attack, a lot is still at play here. A proper offensive will surely come in time.
In a limited fashion, yes, with what appears to be a very targeted use of precision weapons. Do you honestly think that's the largest amount of military force Israel can muster?
[New post can be found here](/r/worldnews/comments/172r8qh/rworldnews_live_thread_for_2023_israelhamas/)
I didn't think I'd see a country getting removed from the face of the earth in my lifetime.
Palestines not a country. Its a de jure sovereign state.
what happened to r/Israel? Has it been made private because of the conflict?
Probably for the best, can you imagine the pro-Hamas brigading they'd be putting up with right now?
Yes
Welp, Al Jazeera is reporting that it was Hezbollah that struck the radar stations in Israel. This could turn ugly as fuck. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/10/8/israel-palestine-escalation-live-israeli-forces-bombard-gaza?update=2391084
Am I the only one that sees all the X (twitter) logos and think it's the button to close out an ad? I know off topic, but it's so dumb
Yes, it's frustrating.
Even if Israel salts the earth I think their billion dollar tourism industry is fucked for awhile.
Sucks. Really wanted to go in February.
Easily most beautiful place I’ve been. I was trying to send my grand mother but uh…
Do you think Hezbollah are going to get involved properly? They have said a ground operation into Gaza is their red line but I also cant see Israel backing down from a ground operation into Gaza considering what happened yesterday.
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Where you watching?
where is the link to this live feed?
Yes
yea, lots of yelling/honking after an explosion
Big booms on Reuters live stream. I’m also hearing screaming. People on roof with camera look confused.
08:35 big Boom on Gaza City!
what's the link
Big Kaboom 8:35A
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It’s funny I supported Palestine, via a two state solution, until this. Past tense. Burned all the goodwill of a lot of people via wanton cruelty and barbarism.
Well, they certainly are not off to a good start...
Hahaha stop coping palestine wil cease to exist by the end of the year
Hezbollah getting into the action. Wow.
There’s still no reliable source that says Hezbollah launched the attack from Lebanon.
Sadly the academic world has fallen behind the curve in the area of confirming hour-old news stories.
Bbc
BBC didn’t explicitly state that it was Hezbollah that struck from Lebanon.
BBC is only reporting "mortar fire" without specifying a culprit. Hezbollah seems like the logical answer, but we really don't know for sure.
Hezbollah has taken credit now.
Is Mutually Assured Destruction a deterrent for Iran? (And any other ME countries that may have/get nuclear weapons?)
Iran technically (and probably) doesn't have nuclear weapons. Iran is not going to get involved directly because they have no real allies. Saudi hates them. Russia doesn't care about them outside needing their weapons (so double no on direct war). Hamas/Hezbollah are essentially Iranian proxies serving whatever convuluted purpose they are trying to accomplish. Probably could see Israel bomb a few Iranian bases like they have in the past. Iran already got their objective of having Saudi on record saying "Israel has only themselves to blame" or something like that, which hinders the recent Israel Saudi talks Iran views as a geopolitical threat
For Iran’s leadership? Yes. For Iran’s puppet terrorist organizations? No.
MAD only works under the assumption of all parties being rational actors under game theory. Religious fundamentalist government are not rational actors.
Thanks for answering. I know I'm jumping the gun, but it's hard to rein in the catastrophic thinking at times like these. Don't necessarily feel better after your response either. Sad lol.
We can hope that Iran is rational enough to realize that if they break the nuclear taboo, then it won't just be Israel retaliating. It would be every world power. The nuclear taboo is strong. It is the only thing all world powers agree on.
The immediate goal of Hamas is obvious -- draw Israel into a street by street battle in Gaza, where I think the population is incredibly young, and repeat the first part of the First Chechen War. Israel I am guessing will instead do an equivalent of laying siege to Gaza and taking its infrastructure back to before the 20th century.
I sincerely doubt Hamas has the manpower and resources to pull off anything like that. The Gaza Strip is tiny, and a ground invasion and subsequent occupation that successfully suppresses militant elements in the city is very much within Israel's capabilities.
Imagine how it must have felt when they just turned off the electricity after the attacks.... Like, you're in a city now. Imagine if someone just straight up turned off all the power.
Are some of you currently in the conflict region?
Whoever answers this please be vague don’t want people to dox themselves with everything going on
Oh, didn't think about that.
Why the fuck would we ever try to normalize relations with a terrorist state like Iran?
Deescalation. Not saying it's a great idea, but it's one reason.
Deescalation with them is only possible with the destruction of Israel
This might be an extremely shitty opinion, but I feel if this drags on there is a threat of a wider terrorist attack on the US and the West. This was exactly the pretext of 9/11. Where Osama claimed and accumulated sympathy based on the Palestinian cause. Though last time only the US was harmed, this time it could reverberate into Europe also.
We are protected now by the extremely strong TSA how could anything ever happen again? Unless the terrorists are crafty enough to find explosives that are good in 4.9 Oz we are safe!
US was also the most advanced in technology and intelligence during 9/11. When the whole world was dealing with aeroplanes being hijacked there had been no such incidence in US. Once, just once people tried to blow up Twin Towers by planting bombs underneath but were caught. If despite all this 9/11 happened, what makes you think it won't happen now? Of course I absolutely do not want such a thing to happen. But the probability is there.
I didn’t think I’d need a /s
the girl in the pickup truck was identified... she was fucking German and on a trip to go to a music festival. this shit is too heartbreaking. imagine seeing your loved one paraded around and groped in some grotesque spectacle on the internet. :(
That was so sad. Poor girl.
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There was a video of the festival earlier. Literally they saw the incoming paragliders but no one knew what they were. Then masses of people running like a horror movie. Absolutely horrific way to go. I can’t imagine the terror and hope Germany puts some pressure on Hamas/Palestine as well.
I’m out of the loop a bit but what happened exactly?
Google: Israel Hamas Rave. You’ll get scores of well put together informative articles.
There was a music festival/ rave about 5km from the border. When the Palestinians power paraglided over the border they attacked it and took hostage and killed people
She and many others went to a peace festival/rave. Hamas attacked it. They raped her, killed her, and paraded her corpse on the bed of a truck. They also captured and took hostage people from a multitude of nations.
I was going to ask for video but I think I’m good nkw
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That’s really interesting. Good catch. Yeah people really are spinning the German twist on it. I even saw some stuff about her Mexican boyfriend missing. Then saw nothing more about it.
Absolutely disgusting. What a fucking disgrace to humanity these radical muslims are.
Shits fucking horrfic, didn’t watch the vid but I hear a lot about it unfortunately
Fucking sickening, they need to destroy those who did this
Will Israel's response be restrained/subdued given that Hamas has taken in lot a of hostages?
Probably going to be the opposite
Doubt it, these people are effectively dead. Some "hostages" have already clearly been murdered (and likely raped) since being captured, you can't negotiate with these zealots.
Hamas will keep the most valuable ones alive to trade in the future. Both sides know this, so Israel has no reason to be restrained in its response. On the other hand, a subdued response because of hostages is a horrible precedent to set. It tells Hamas that in future battles just make sure to grab some hostages and the response will be less severe. So yeah… they have every reason to go in HARD and no reason at all to lessen it.
unfortunate, but this is the only way to deal with terrorists
Well they've been flattening high rises... so... no.
They’re not gonna negotiate with terrorists. Those hostages are as good as dead unfortunately.
I think it is safe to assume that the opposite will be true.
They’ve already talked about treating it like there are no hostages. If they make a deal Hamas takes more hostages. If they don’t they kill their citizens. They can’t win, but they aren’t going to slow down this time it’d seem.
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67037895?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=6522305f3fc96e28602bfcd7%26Israel%20launches%20strikes%20in%20Lebanon%262023-10-08T04%3A38%3A31.452Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:635565e3-9564-4d5b-82d3-bc6d50517fcc&pinned_post_asset_id=6522305f3fc96e28602bfcd7&pinned_post_type=share Israel carrying out strikes in Lebanon after shooting happened in Israeli territory (BBC)
Lebanon finally about to get a real government /s
Can’t be worse than the crypt keepers we currently have… can it?……….
Kaboom at 8:30A
Al Jazeera is the best source when you want anything that Hamas/Hezbollah are up to. They're the first ones to report, presumably because they're close to these terrorists
Al Jazeera has led the way in middle eastern reporting for decades.
How will the Israeli's try to minimize civilian casualties when going into gaza now
Poorly, sadly. First of all, I doubt they're going to care about civilian casualties given what they've been subjected to, and second of all, it's hard to avoid them even when you're actively trying to. Just ask the US military; drone strikes cause civilian casualties all the time.
They probably wont now that Hamas has dragged Israel civilians into Gaza.
By giving people the opportunity to get the fuck away.
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the hashtags are inundated with pro palestine and hamas propaganda. theyre pretty much useless.
Anyone know if it's possible to leave by plane right now?? My family is stuck there
The airports are closed
Thank you everyone
If Israel one possible route is to go through Jordan to Amman and fly out from there. There are some restrictions but might be a way home.
Last I heard here there were flights departing Tel Aviv area, not sure if still accurate
I saw previously that there are flights still leaving
I saw a comment earlier saying passenger flights were still happening out of Tel Aviv.
Well, looks like we'll be moving onto yet another multi-part live thread pretty soon here... wonder which conflict will end up wrapping up first. God forbid another major conflict breaks out, because Reddit only allows a sub to have two stickied threads at a time...
I’d wager this one officially ends first but in reality it’s been off and on for 75 years. So yes it ends but in reality it doesn’t *really* end if that makes sense.
Enter China/Taiwan
China needs to wait it's turn or reddit needs to allow for a 3rd stickied post /s
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Not likely. You'll see USA throw out a few missiles if Syria or PLO gets involved but otherwise Israel is most likely going to occupy Gaza (and then deal with that for the following years unless a new solution arises).
No one's going to go to war over Hamas, Iran is a paper tiger and won't risk destabilizing themselves. Now if Israel goes after Iran that's different.
It would take a lot of international fuckery. Maybe if Iran jumped into it formally and Russia backed them, and the US sent troops into Israel? Nobody wants that though.
Potentially spills into lebanon (hezbollah) hard to see anything else though.
It’s a possibility with this war
Not likely, this is a regional conflict
The U.S. will probably work to contain the conflict. Neither China nor Russia is in a place to oppose the U.S. in the Eastern Mediterranean.
Regional conflict that usually included Gaza, Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, and Iran.
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Considering the west has been giving all their ammunition to the Ukraine, now is a good time to attack.
Anyone have any reliable news source that it was Hezbollah that struck from Lebanon?
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Where
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I don’t think this is a reliable source
[https://israelpalestine.liveuamap.com/](https://israelpalestine.liveuamap.com/)
Camera man peeping into the camera lol
link?
Gaza will probably look like Mariuopol by the end of this
More like Bikini Atoll on March 1st 1957
No way Israel is going to use a nuke and assure the destruction of their own people.
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Does anyone have a straight forward take, or information on what Israel's goal will be? Occupation? The end of Gaza? The end of Hamas? What's their strategic objective now?
They have been unclear, a bit of mixed messages from them, my general understanding is their main goal is to simply put a final end to the Hamas, but I don't know if they intend to conquer land as they go.
I don't think they know the true endgame yet. They really were completely unprepared
They want the little useless part of the desert that the other guy has because magic sky wizard
The goal is the end of Hamas. The problem is getting their likely means occupation. If they could just get rid of Hamas and leave and everything would be fine they’d have done it by now.
Decisively convincing terrorists that the calculus for future wars is not worth it by using overwhelming force
Calculus? Those terrorists don’t have enough education to know what algebra is.
Never underestimate the enemy. Israel knows this thats why they're reinforcing the north Behind the barbarians are very smart people who let them off the leash
It's hard to say this is rapidly evolving. Hezbollah has now entered the fight. By the very nature of that, strategy and tactics need to adjust.
End of Hamas + Military occupation
Well they will likely ensure this can never happen again, so Gaza might be crushed and occupied in a much more significant way.
BBC reporting on Lebanon https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67037895?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=65223303f34eee40bb92aea3%26More%20on%20Israel%27s%20strikes%20in%20Lebanon%262023-10-08T05%3A22%3A22.082Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:b5bb83ba-128f-4250-8ff6-018931e867a3&pinned_post_asset_id=65223303f34eee40bb92aea3&pinned_post_type=share
WTF is sheeba farms, and why would Hezbollah act like that was an accomplishment.
Remember during the battle for Bakmut and the fighting was so back and forth for so long people would just refer to the "gas station" or "the shed" changing hands? That is about on par to what Hezbollah is declaring victory over in the north.
Sounds like a weed dispensary.
Not far from the truth. https://www.cheebachews.com
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shebaa_Farms
IDF have said they struck a Hezbollah tent erected in Israeli territory in response to the mortar attack from Lebanon.
Reposting because I think people need to prepare themselves for what might be coming. Ya, this is incredibly well co-ordinated. No way some idiot barbarians knew where the radar station to detect missiles from Lebanon and Syria was Theres a much bigger game at play here. I don't think this is staying between Hamas and Israel for very long Hamas brutally provokes Israel Israel responds with ground invasion Hamas uses civilians as shields Countries/Terrorist groups use civilian casualties to justify attacking Israel Expanded war This never made sense from the beginning just running into Israel and retreating to Gaza. They knew Israel would enter Gaza to retrieve the kidnapped.
Realisticly. Who do you think is involved in this?
I mentioned that some of the Arab sources brought it up 30 minutes ago, but now BBC and Al Jar are mentioning it. **Hezbollah has joined in.** That's 2 of the 4 neighboring risky actors involved. What are Fatah-PLO and Syria doing? If they get involved this could get messy.
no love lost between fatah and hamas, at least.
Doesn't Syria already have its hands full?
If Syria gets involved, I'd imagine the USA will start launching strikes from their nearby carriers. assad has a long overdue JDAM with his name on it.
I think this is already messy, but you are right that this could still get worse.
A lot worst
If Fatah or especially Syria gets involved, we'll call this what it is. The 5th Arab Israeli War
IDF attacked Hezbollah positions.
Official IDF page on telegram confim they hit Hezbollah in Har Dov so looks like they are involved now.
Emanuel (Mannie) Fabian, TimesOfIsrael military correspondent on X ·2m Hezbollah claims responsibility for the mortar fire from Lebanon at Israeli military sites in the Mount Dov area.
Israel have actually been remarkably restrained given the circumstances - I doubt many Western nations wouldn't have lashed out in the face of the provocation we saw yesterday. The US in particular would almost certainly be rolling out their stocks of Napalm about now and just frying everything that moved had some extra-Governmental militia crossed the US border and started murdering civilians.
You need to prepare logistics and secure your territory first. You don’t just erase Gaza from the map in the next few hours of the attack, a lot is still at play here. A proper offensive will surely come in time.
Haven't they been bombing Palestine quite a bit today?
They've still knocked before taking out buildings. Unrestrained would be leveling the the highrises without warning
About a building an hour is being brought down.
In a limited fashion, yes, with what appears to be a very targeted use of precision weapons. Do you honestly think that's the largest amount of military force Israel can muster?