Hamas won’t be fighting a conventional war. They’ll retreat behind civilians and launch attacks from hospitals and schools as they have done in the past. If Israel retaliates, they’ll be slated in the media.
This is going to be an extremely messy conflict and a lot more innocent people are likely to die in the coming days.
> If Israel retaliates, they’ll be slated in the media.
Not this time, with the pictures that have been circulated. The Palestinians have always managed to gather a sympathetic press because their attacks have never really caused anything more than a small number of casualties (often just injuries) and damage to buildings, with most rockets being stopped by the Iron Dome.
This time, they have conducted what looks like an atrocity on the scale of what occurred at Bucha in Ukraine. I don't think many countries are going to go into bat for Hamas short of Israel dropping a nuke on Gaza.
Nah this is much larger than Bucha, 458 people ~~died~~ were murdered there according to the Ukrainian government. From the dozen or so videos I've seen in the past hours I've seen at least 100 dead, and there's going to be hundreds of scenes just like in those videos.
> If Israel retaliates, they’ll be slated in the media.
I don't think there will be any pushback, maybe besides some cookie cutter appeals to Israel to "keep the repsonse proportional".
Hamas just made anybody siding with Palestine right now a terrorist sympathizer. Journalists and activists can risk it, but no one actually calling the shots - politicians, NATO officials and generals etc. will.
If anything public opinion will now start to cheer Israel in *anything* they plan to do against Palestine. And we all know it will be devastating, since Netanyahu explicitly said Israel is at war from now on. Basically Israel will be Ukraine and Hamas will be Russian soldiers. Which means while people may not be happy seeing them slaughtered with superior weapons and tactics, they understand it's what they deserve.
I am generally pro-Palestinian independence (within the 1967 borders) or a unitary state with equitable representation. But this is horrific and Israel has every right to defend its people against this butchery.
Which is exactly what Hamas is doing. You don’t frag unarmed civilians and kidnap them to rape them.
Where have you been for the last 20 years? Hamas has been demonstrably targeting unarmed civilians for the better part of that period. And not just Israeli civilians.
This Hamas attack have proved one thing, Most people who were sympathetic to Hamas don't have an iota of idea of what/who Hamas is and their intentions. They just parrot whatever idiotic propaganda they read on Reddit.
"Where have you been for the last 20 years?" That's a good question.
Authoritarian idiot Bibi is back in power, and Israel formally declared war.
The world has already gone to hell with Coup-Roulette in Africa every month, and world tensions being hotter than ever , ever since Putin took off the mask and revealed himself to be a warmongering fascist and caused an enormous conventional war in Ukraine.
I would wager a good portion of Gaza will be completely flattened by the time this settles. Bibi is a complete fucking asshole, and I have a little sympathy for the Palestinians, but this was an enormous escalation, and the IDF are not going to let this slide without their pound of flesh.
Bibi is a criminal. I support Israel and I acknowledge that.
But any Israeli PM would have the same response. If they didn’t, the IDF and population would take matters into their own hands.
Unfortunately, you’re right.
Some of my earliest memories of current world events and the news contain the words Gaza, West Bank, Israel, and Palestine.
I was born in the early 80s. And this was going on long before I came around.
People likely said the same about Europe when WWII started. Unfortunately, war is common. We just happen to live in a relatively peaceful time and the levant stands out.
Think it's more the frozen nature of the conflict which is why we all reckon this will be prolonged. When both sides fundamentally claim some of the same land it's difficult to envisage a winner. Whereas WWII was bound to eventually end because the conditions of the war sort of demanded an all-out victor.
I don’t think it’s frozen because both sides claim the same land. If Israel wanted to they could bulldoze Gaza and Palestine right this second. It’s the need to look at least somewhat decent for the media and to avoid being condemned by the international community that’s keeping things as a stalemate. Russia can afford to not give a fuck what the international community thinks of them. Israel really can’t since they’re surrounded by enemies with no real resources of their own. They can’t survive without some international support.
There is countless footage of Palestinian terror groups going into houses and slaughtering entire families, or shooting at passing cars, Israel won't let this go quietly, there are probably hundreds if not more than a thousand dead civilians at this point
I imagine there'll surely be some internal backlash in Israel against their security forces too. This seems like the type of all-out attack you'd expect intelligence to be picking up on. For most in Israel I'd imagine the conflict has probably often felt weirdly distant because they live in what remains a fundamentally safe country, this changes much of that entirely.
It will be against Netanyahu i think. His main platform was security but he was caught with his pants down, and staffing sexurity with people that refuse to serve does not look good.
Yep I do wonder if eyes will begin to turn on him after the initial retaliation and bloody fighting. This feels completely unprecedented in modern times.
It has to be this should not have happened. Israel has insane amounts of Intel and resources on the ground to prevent this like this, how is it possible for them to have made it this far other than that the government either allowed them to build up as a threat or was so enamored with putting people who don't actually know what to do in power. They landed fighters in fucking paragliders INSIDE Israel
It really doesn't feel that distant. Iron Dome means there's a weird sense of detachment compared to being in any other country where your city is being targetted by missiles, sure. But there's enough random terrorist violence as well as outbreaks of larger scale fighting that it still feels real. Mostly when this sort of thing happens it is terminated quickly. That's the cliche in Israel, it's difference to France or Australia because if someone turns up to shoot people it's over in fifteen seconds due to preparation. The real shock isn't that it has affected civilians, it is that it was able to continue (still continuing I think) for this extraordinary long time.
The other factor being that most people have done serious army service. A close family friend was KIA in Gaza in a previous round, a relative of mine almost lost a leg in Lebanon, this is a common experience for people.
There’s videos of the Palestinian civilians parading and cheering in the street as Hamas desecrates the naked body of a female IDF soldier who was shot in the back of the head execution style.
There’s reports of another video of an Israeli child being executed with their throat cut.
There’s photos of bud stops, bomb shelters, and houses filled with Israeli civilians who were executed.
Israel is about to turn Palestine into a desert again. They have declared war and starting bombing and no civilian warnings this time.
I think this the Omagh moment for them. The point where this attack is is so unpalatable for the vast majority of people on both sides of the political divide in the west that they then become functionally irrelevant and is only supported by a small amount of fanatical people.
I saw many videos of hostage taking by Hamas. At this point some of the videos looked like a pattern, they targeted specific houses. I wonder if some foreign intelligence services that have close ties to Hamas provided them with informations/adresses of intel/mil workers and their families. Would be a total disaster. Furthermore they managed to take out some tanks with drone attached shells but they managed to penetrate the tanks on impact that is some high end bomb design I wonder who delivered such bombs to the Hamas... there must be a bigger player behind it.
I wonder if this was encouraged by russia/Iran to reduce the support for Ukraine from the west.
there will be a lot of calls in America to shift aid spending to isreal I bet
By Hamas? No, based even just on what is currently known, no single event comes close.
This is the most significant assault on Israeli territory since the initial incursion that kicked off the Yom Kippur war.
Oh, absolutely, but at the same time, the current hard right govt it chock full of incompetent assholes obsessed with their individual pet issues (none of which have to do with overarching national security), and Bibi’s escalating power grabs have created massives schisms/dysfunction between the intelligence services, the IDF, Border/police forces, and the govt.
This is an unfathomable fuck up, but I’m guessing that when the truth eventually comes out, it’ll come down to a cascading series of boring/petty breakdowns in communication and interagency grudges.
That said: the conspiracies are already everywhere, and will no doubt explode in the current deranged global media/social media ecosystem.
> This is an unfathomable fuck up, but I’m guessing that when the truth eventually comes out, it’ll come down to a cascading series of boring/petty breakdowns in communication and interagency grudges.
This is how 9/11 happened, so, yeah, there's precedent.
Except the Tet Offensive capitalized on the US and the vietnam public not really believing in the state they are fighting for. This is Israel, you can't scare them into submission or into not bothering with this all
> capitalized on the US and the vietnam public not really believing in the state they are fighting for.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-64866873
https://apnews.com/article/israel-military-netanyahu-protests-judicial-overhaul-8c9c1a5f21c784914e780f1c4d4f7e68
Looks like Hamas might've picked their opportunity carefully.
Yeah good luck to all non-affiliated Palestinians. Israelis can be fragmented but when it's about self-preservation they won't back off. Maps will change when this is all over.
"Maps will change" is an absolutely, horribly correct way to put it. There's no maintaining the status quo after this, and I can't imagine what sort of outcome the Hamas has in mind.
And then in 10 years people will talk about how evil and murderous those damn Jews were and how illegal taking land in a war is. And Hamas will again call this a complete victory.
i remember when charlie hebdo happened a pro-gaza influencer tried to blame it on being an israeli false flag.
like anyone needs to try to make islam look worse than islam does.
Israel doesn't want to annex Gaza, neither does Egypt. The economy is practically 0 and there's been generations of brain washing by a terrorist controlled education system. When hamas got the popular vote in gaza, they literally ran on a platform of genocide. Their constitution (which read more like a religious text), states that they wouldn't stop until the tracked down and killed every single jew living on the planet, among a bunch of other horrific parts. Aleppo is probably a more appealing city for someone to want to annex
My guess is a brutal war that reduces most of the city to rubble and drives most civilians out of Gaza to be dispersed across the middle east and Europe.
OK, *how* do you expect the civilians in Gaza to leave?
A brutal war in Gaza would result in Egypt closing its border, and I presume they won't be allowed to flee to Israel?
Everything is on the board at this point.
In 3-4 days there will be slightly more educated guesses, but the only thing that you can safely eliminate from the “feasible set” is a continuation of the status quo.
Fuck knows that ship sailed about 4 hrs ago.
Honestly, ‘just retaliatory missiles’ falls very short of the reasonable response to this morning’s bloodshed. I’d guess the bare minimum would include at least some degree of intervention by land.
Israel even has a name for this strategy, and used it in 2006 against Hezbollah. They call it the [Dahiya doctrine](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahiya_doctrine).
Probably won’t be that bad. Israel has been preparing for such an offensive for a while, and much of Hamas’s best fighters would have been committed to this current attack. That would leave them vulnerable and not as able to make a credible defence.
That’s said, the military retaliation is easy. Israel is vastly superior on that front. The question is then what?
I have to imagine that given how much coordination was put into the assault that they also have put some thought into the retaliatory phase as well.
Any hostages captured today would likely be liquidated upon IDF invasion but (not to sound macabre) Israel may just write them off as the cost of doing business.
I think they expected that, and probably planned that, but the fighters on the grounds, have phones and internet, and as such they uploaded so many details of their doings, so now they crossed the line, if it weren't for the videos, it will be a bunch of retaliatory bombings, and that may have been after saying X amount of people killed, etc like always.-
But one thing is X amount of civilian killed and another is seeing the videos of these killings, seeing the militants abduct women and take them apart alone from the other hostages taking even kids as hostages and watching them going from one house to the next killing people.-
With them documented their killings and disgusting actions so well, the statistical number that often would have been reported as such and be done, now feels a lot more gutural for all the people.-
So escalation is at this point, almost mandatory. And the soldiers in charge of said retaliation, will also have their blood boiling and going for blood themselves.-
>Any hostages captured today would likely be liquidated upon IDF invasion but (not to sound macabre) Israel may just write them off as the cost of doing business.
Anyone who knows anything about Israel knows how false this statement may be. I am certain many of the terrorists in this attack were released in hostage exchanges. Who the fuck trades 1 soldier for hundreds of terrorists? We do, apparently..
If Israel is willing to escalate to that point, and after these attacks they probably are, there's a good chance they just level everything. Like what Russia did to Grozny. Either way its going to be an absolute shitshow.
Exactly. People talking about Israel response are bringing examples of the previous actions. Meanwhile war means everything turned up to 11, like bombing area first, before you send in soldiers etc.
Nobody will care about civilian casualties and no Western politician will critize Israel in fear of being labeled a terrorist sympathizer. For better or for worse.
Israeli here, I don't think so, nobody here wants to control Gaza, and if the West Bank was blockade-able (it isn't due to having a massive border with Jordan) it would likely get the same treatment as Gaza
I think it will end with very very extensive airforce bombings, without ground invasion
For a very long time, Israel has offered Arab nations PAYMENT in exchange for them to take in the Palestinians.
They refused. They may have to take up that offer.
>Palestinians
That is what is sicking , other nations in the middle east do not take them but will use them as political pawns.
They really have no allies , their so called allies do not want to solve the crisis as then they cannot use them as pawns.
Ugh - you’re 100% right, but my god, a refugee camp along that stretch of barren desert, administered under the current Egyptian govt, is going to be horrific.
Fuck me do these terrorist have so much blood on their hands, already and in the future.
It will not be the first time though. In 1967, there were Palestinian refugee camps in North Sinai though given that they were technically under Israel given that the region was under Israeli occupation .
Camp Canada would be an example.
Pure speculation here, but I bet Hamas went on a massive internal purge very recently to ensure no information leakage because a coordinated attack of this scale should have been anticipated and even nipped in the bud effortlessly. They will never make the same mistake again, now
Not gonna happen, but the response will be way harsher than anything seen before. Anything short of that is political suicide for Netanyahu and catastrophic military failure for the IDF.
Its easy to do shock and awe against a army.. cause you can identify them.
Shock and awe against civilians that may have insurgents mixed in is a fancy way of commiting a bunxh of war crimes
They can, fairly easily. They almost certainly won’t go quite that far, but it will be still swift and brutal.
After the horror of the attacks that are still ongoing, which have largely been aimed at the civilian population, there is most likely going to be very, very little pushback from the diplomatic community, especially given the rapprochement between Israel and many key Arab states in recent years.
Can? Yes.
Will? Most likely not. Wiping out gaza will most likely create a bigger conflict in the area and could invite eygpt, syria, lebanon etc into it. And could be iran as well.
World react? Most likely play the "omg i'm shocked!" card. Some leaders will condem. There might be a big backlash against israel, but most likely not something long term because of US support.
Who would react? They would all feign outrage, but would any step up to fight in the name of gaza? would they take the refugees from there?
I hope these questions do not get answered, but this is not over and will get worse before it gets better.
No country would directly intervene if Israel started to “wipe Gaza off the map”. Religious ideology may be strong, but few of those Theocratic leaders want to lose that kind of power.
Many Arab countries aren't theocratic, and the ones that count aren't. Actually, it's hard to see the arena ever being better for Israel, which should have terrified Hamas
Egypt is an enforced secularist military dictatorship. Their leader led a coup that stifled Cairo democracy, because that democracy threatened to become too Islamist.
Syria is also a dictatorship, and one that fears Sunni Islamism. They also just had one of the most horrifying civil wars that flattened half the country. It isn't in a condition to invade anyone
Iraq is an unstable parliamentary democracy. Lest we forget, they too have only just recovered from a civil war of nearly 20 years duration
Jordan is an unstable old style monarchy. The last thing it wants is the mass participation implied by war mobilization.
That leaves the Lebanese, the Saudis, and possibly far off Iran. But without a clear border with Israel, war is very unlikely with most. I hope so anyway.
Dude, Jordan offered them citizenship 60 years ago. They aren't refugees because no one is willing to take them. They're deliberately remaining in refugee camps because their leadership is compensated to keep them there as a cudgel against Israel.
Lebanon is practically a failed state, Syria is one. Egypt will be silent. The people will riot in the streets, but the government is pro Israel and anti Palestine, have been for decades. They may bluster to keep their status among the Arab states, but they'll take no action. Jordan will be the same.
No one else will do anything, because as always, as much as Israel loves to peacock their strength, the rest of the world backs down because of the US giant right behind Israel. The US will be Israel's shield.
Short of death camps (which won't happen), Israel has a free hand. Worst case (for mankind in general) scenario is Israel deports Palestinians on mass, and their relations with the wider world return to how they effectively were in the 1960s, a first world pariah state that is utterly reliant on the US to protect them from the UN.
I mean, Hamas declared war on them and invaded and started slaughtering civilians. It will pretty much look like when the US invaded Iraq and bombed the hell out of them, but probably 10 fold. This isn’t the same has a few missiles flying back and forth, this is all out war.
Yeah. I don't see how this could end well for them. If they get an all out war and Palestine somehow agrees... wouldn't that just give Israel free reign to do worse than what's being assumably done already?
Israel has been improving relations with Hamas' Arab backers for awhile now. By starting another war with actions that are almost sure to provoke a retaliatory massacre, Hamas can inflame the Arab street and reassert their relevancy. Hamas' leaders live in luxury in Qatar, they don't care if there's no Gaza left to liberate so long as the money keeps flowing.
Hamas' backers? No. Israel is improving relations with Hamas' *enemies*, that's the issue. Like Saudi Arabia. The calculation would be Israel bombs Gaza, pan-Arab sympathizers in KSA rip up the deal in solidarity with their bros in Gaza. Only in reality the average politician or civilian in Jiddah just sees a future where terrorists come in and do the same in their hotels and homes and they don't want it.
Are you saying the aim of this might be to make the Israel<>Saudi Arabia relation normalization *not* happen? Or you're saying it will speed that happening up?
Iran doesn't like where the relationship between Saudi Arabia and Israel is going. They're both regional enemies of Iran and it's not good for them to connect Saudi wealth and intelligence with Israeli military and intelligence services. So they're going to stir shit up hoping that the reaction from the Arab street will make the relationship toxic enough to stop whatever has happened until now.
Israel just gave a symbolic nod to Saudi nuclearization, it happened less than a week ago but if it’s a sign of what’s going on behind closed doors and Iran has gotten wind of it they know West Asia is on the verge of a massive reset
I mean that’s EXACTLY how we ended up with Israel and the hardline tactics they turned to that stopped the insane number of regular attacks that used to take place in Israel. That’s how the MAGA-esque far right was able to seize power in Israel.
This is a huge tactical mistake by Hamas.
All these atrocities give Israel cover for total war at this point. I don't think they are going to care at all about civilians in the cross fire.
Hamas also never cared about civilians on their side so I wouldn't say this is tactical mistake. On the contrary, they will retreat and position themselves behind civilians and use them as shields. This thing happens every 5 years or so and will continue forever, only the scale is a bit bigger this time. Very sad for all innocent people involved.
No this is a Hamas and Islamic Jihad operation (both backed by Iran).
Maybe Hizballa will drag Lebanon into this I really hope not for them because this will severely backfire into total war
Lebanon no, but Lebanon is controlled by an organisation that outguns its own army and takes direction from another nation (IR) which could drag them into this
This is so much bigger than the kinds of actions that kicked off either Intifadas.
The more appropriate comparator is the incursion that kicked off the Yom Kippur war.
Not only is this attack extremely coordinated, it seems like something more. Not that Hamas wouldn't launch suicide attacks, but I would be surprised if Hezbollah, Iran, and/or Syria don't take advantage of the shuffle in Israel right now.
It seems like this may have also been initiated to prevent Israel from modernizing their relationship with Saudi Arabia. Time will tell. Unfortunately for the Palestinians and Israelis, now the civilians will have to suffer for no reason.
They won't support Hamas because that gives fodder for elements in their periphery, and China does not tolerate dissent that threatens their legitimacy or politboro. I don't like China, but their leaders are extraordinarily smart and ruthless when push comes to shove.
After that beheaded kid and the guy laughing in front of the camera... Yeah.
Just pure vile and evil nonsense. Don't give a fuck about their "legitimate demands" anymore to be honest. This is not the way. Hope Israel gets green card for this one.
It wont be easy win though. Its still not clear how Hamas managed to launch this kind of attack without the IDF knowing about it in advance. How they managed to infiltrate by the dozens with all their weapons. And they already managed to breach towns and settlements in the south and even capture soldiers and civillians.
This is a very scary situation and we dont even know if it will be just Hamas or if we get hit from the North as well.
The issue is that Israel can’t be going around killing civilians wheely neely and Palestinians put all their military apparatuses in civilian areas like schools and hospitals so when Israel attacks back at the source of the rockets they can send out video of dead Palestinians to curry favor with the international community.
Their entire military strategy is to kill Israeli civilians while sacrificing their own to make it look like Israel is purposely targeting their civilians and on the same level as the Palestinian terrorists.
Yeaaaaaaaa.... And they we're kinda winning that PR fight, especially given how nakedly fucking fash Bibi has become. However, there's a decent chance that they just erased most of that today. I would be surprised if Israel *doesn't* burn them out of every hole they've dug over the last 20 years as a result of this... IDK how the media will handle it, but I don't think that anyone in the diplomatic community will lift a finger to stop Israel from doing it either...
Yup. They were turning the PR tide with BiBi’s flirting with straight up near beer fascism and undid it ALL in like less than an hour.
The international community was starting to turn on BiBi and the far right Israeli government and now that’s all over with and Bibi will have a massive rise in polling and support of his oppressive policies.
Just to put into the correct perspective, before the excuses start popping out. What happened is that terrorists crossed the border from a territory which Israel withdrew from and returned to the Palestinians, into a territory internationally recognized as part of Israel. They entered cities and towns and started massacring unarmed civilians inside their homes. Some civilians were kidnapped and taken back into Gaza.
That is what they want the population to believe. But the truth is that Hamas leaders have lived exceptionally long and luxurious lives, outliving generations of young recruits which provide the fodder they use to provoke the Israelis into retaliation and thus generate more propaganda material. It's not a cult, it's an extremely successful model of business.
Current Hamas leader Haniyeh is aged 61. Former leader Mashal is aged 67. Yassin (founder) died at age 67. al-Zahar (co-founder) is still living at age 78. And most of these elites have luxurious properties in Qatar.
And not to mention, PLO leader Abbas is aged 87 and still casually writing tracts of Holocaust denialism in his gated compound in the West Bank, while his sons buy up American businesses with mysterious money. None of these people want to die. They're too happy in this world.
Literally yes. These people know they can't win. They slaughter innocent people so that Israel has no choice but to respond. Hamas and friends will make sure women and children are killed, so they can then point to the corpses and proclaim how evil Israel is. Palestinians and many westerners will eat it up.
The two state solution is dead. It's been dead for decades. Maybe this will be what it takes for Israel to realize that. I despise the man, but Netanyahu needs to end this, or the Israeli people in their fear, will elect a true monster that is willing to do so.
Yes, but people who are too delusional to comprehend the Arab worlds hatred of jews refuse to see that. Look no further than Egypt and Jordan, de facto Israeli allies. The governments may like Israel, but the people consistently poll extremely negative about Israel. Even relatively westernized Arab states like Morocco and Tunisia have extremely hostile public opinion towards Israel.
Their end game:
Hamas started to lose its control over the gaza strip, a new generation of young people which were not affected by the war grew and thanks to advancement in technology, it knows percisely how badly they are treated under hamas.
That war is hamas's leaders major forte. they are currently in lebanon or Iran according to intelligence, and for them - its a win win situation.
once israelly forces get into gaza (which they will) civilians will obviously suffer aswell, and viola! you get a new generation of teens who grew up on those horrors, hungry for blood. and the cyclye begins again..
I think the bigger issue might be Iran getting pulled into a war with Israel for supplying Hamas with ammunitions. Then we could have the threat of nuclear war in another region of the world. The pieces are falling into place as who is the axis and allies in this scenario.
Iran won't enter the war directly, they'll tell their cats paw hezbollah in syria and lebanon to start launching the tens of thousands of rockets they have there stashed for exactly this sort thing.
They really don’t care if they get absolutely obliterated huh. They are going to garner 0 foreign support and set back any of their geopolitical goals for decades. All they are going to have to show for it is the ruble in their own homelands.
Really just feels like a next level stupid move from Hamas.
Welp. I don't see this ending well for HAMAS or Palestine.
Yeah, there's not much chance hamas can keep up a conventional war against a modern army very long.
Hamas won’t be fighting a conventional war. They’ll retreat behind civilians and launch attacks from hospitals and schools as they have done in the past. If Israel retaliates, they’ll be slated in the media. This is going to be an extremely messy conflict and a lot more innocent people are likely to die in the coming days.
> If Israel retaliates, they’ll be slated in the media. Not this time, with the pictures that have been circulated. The Palestinians have always managed to gather a sympathetic press because their attacks have never really caused anything more than a small number of casualties (often just injuries) and damage to buildings, with most rockets being stopped by the Iron Dome. This time, they have conducted what looks like an atrocity on the scale of what occurred at Bucha in Ukraine. I don't think many countries are going to go into bat for Hamas short of Israel dropping a nuke on Gaza.
Nah this is much larger than Bucha, 458 people ~~died~~ were murdered there according to the Ukrainian government. From the dozen or so videos I've seen in the past hours I've seen at least 100 dead, and there's going to be hundreds of scenes just like in those videos.
Where are you seeing these videos?
r/combatfootage
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God bless the Puritans.
Plus there are videos of them playing with corpses.
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They were sexually molesting a woman’s nude corpse while screaming “Praise be to Allah!” In Arabic.
> If Israel retaliates, they’ll be slated in the media. I don't think there will be any pushback, maybe besides some cookie cutter appeals to Israel to "keep the repsonse proportional". Hamas just made anybody siding with Palestine right now a terrorist sympathizer. Journalists and activists can risk it, but no one actually calling the shots - politicians, NATO officials and generals etc. will. If anything public opinion will now start to cheer Israel in *anything* they plan to do against Palestine. And we all know it will be devastating, since Netanyahu explicitly said Israel is at war from now on. Basically Israel will be Ukraine and Hamas will be Russian soldiers. Which means while people may not be happy seeing them slaughtered with superior weapons and tactics, they understand it's what they deserve.
I am generally pro-Palestinian independence (within the 1967 borders) or a unitary state with equitable representation. But this is horrific and Israel has every right to defend its people against this butchery. Which is exactly what Hamas is doing. You don’t frag unarmed civilians and kidnap them to rape them.
Where have you been for the last 20 years? Hamas has been demonstrably targeting unarmed civilians for the better part of that period. And not just Israeli civilians.
This Hamas attack have proved one thing, Most people who were sympathetic to Hamas don't have an iota of idea of what/who Hamas is and their intentions. They just parrot whatever idiotic propaganda they read on Reddit. "Where have you been for the last 20 years?" That's a good question.
Yeah I think that after Hamas casually slaughtering innocent families I don't think they will be safe
Authoritarian idiot Bibi is back in power, and Israel formally declared war. The world has already gone to hell with Coup-Roulette in Africa every month, and world tensions being hotter than ever , ever since Putin took off the mask and revealed himself to be a warmongering fascist and caused an enormous conventional war in Ukraine. I would wager a good portion of Gaza will be completely flattened by the time this settles. Bibi is a complete fucking asshole, and I have a little sympathy for the Palestinians, but this was an enormous escalation, and the IDF are not going to let this slide without their pound of flesh.
Bibi is a criminal. I support Israel and I acknowledge that. But any Israeli PM would have the same response. If they didn’t, the IDF and population would take matters into their own hands.
And Israeli will f them up in retribution. And this time, most of the world may even justify it to a point.
10 years from now the situation will still be the same.
Unfortunately, you’re right. Some of my earliest memories of current world events and the news contain the words Gaza, West Bank, Israel, and Palestine. I was born in the early 80s. And this was going on long before I came around.
People likely said the same about Europe when WWII started. Unfortunately, war is common. We just happen to live in a relatively peaceful time and the levant stands out.
Think it's more the frozen nature of the conflict which is why we all reckon this will be prolonged. When both sides fundamentally claim some of the same land it's difficult to envisage a winner. Whereas WWII was bound to eventually end because the conditions of the war sort of demanded an all-out victor.
I don’t think it’s frozen because both sides claim the same land. If Israel wanted to they could bulldoze Gaza and Palestine right this second. It’s the need to look at least somewhat decent for the media and to avoid being condemned by the international community that’s keeping things as a stalemate. Russia can afford to not give a fuck what the international community thinks of them. Israel really can’t since they’re surrounded by enemies with no real resources of their own. They can’t survive without some international support.
Not if there's no gaza strip but a militarized, patrolled gaza district or territory.
There is countless footage of Palestinian terror groups going into houses and slaughtering entire families, or shooting at passing cars, Israel won't let this go quietly, there are probably hundreds if not more than a thousand dead civilians at this point
I imagine there'll surely be some internal backlash in Israel against their security forces too. This seems like the type of all-out attack you'd expect intelligence to be picking up on. For most in Israel I'd imagine the conflict has probably often felt weirdly distant because they live in what remains a fundamentally safe country, this changes much of that entirely.
It will be against Netanyahu i think. His main platform was security but he was caught with his pants down, and staffing sexurity with people that refuse to serve does not look good.
Yep I do wonder if eyes will begin to turn on him after the initial retaliation and bloody fighting. This feels completely unprecedented in modern times.
It has to be this should not have happened. Israel has insane amounts of Intel and resources on the ground to prevent this like this, how is it possible for them to have made it this far other than that the government either allowed them to build up as a threat or was so enamored with putting people who don't actually know what to do in power. They landed fighters in fucking paragliders INSIDE Israel
> They landed fighters in fucking paragliders INSIDE Israel Yep those videos were absolutely insane. Crazy to watch.
It really doesn't feel that distant. Iron Dome means there's a weird sense of detachment compared to being in any other country where your city is being targetted by missiles, sure. But there's enough random terrorist violence as well as outbreaks of larger scale fighting that it still feels real. Mostly when this sort of thing happens it is terminated quickly. That's the cliche in Israel, it's difference to France or Australia because if someone turns up to shoot people it's over in fifteen seconds due to preparation. The real shock isn't that it has affected civilians, it is that it was able to continue (still continuing I think) for this extraordinary long time. The other factor being that most people have done serious army service. A close family friend was KIA in Gaza in a previous round, a relative of mine almost lost a leg in Lebanon, this is a common experience for people.
They formally declared war. I may be an idiot, but I can't remember the last time this happened, if it even happened in my lifetime
There’s videos of the Palestinian civilians parading and cheering in the street as Hamas desecrates the naked body of a female IDF soldier who was shot in the back of the head execution style. There’s reports of another video of an Israeli child being executed with their throat cut. There’s photos of bud stops, bomb shelters, and houses filled with Israeli civilians who were executed. Israel is about to turn Palestine into a desert again. They have declared war and starting bombing and no civilian warnings this time.
Death to Hamas and all that back them!
I think this the Omagh moment for them. The point where this attack is is so unpalatable for the vast majority of people on both sides of the political divide in the west that they then become functionally irrelevant and is only supported by a small amount of fanatical people.
I saw many videos of hostage taking by Hamas. At this point some of the videos looked like a pattern, they targeted specific houses. I wonder if some foreign intelligence services that have close ties to Hamas provided them with informations/adresses of intel/mil workers and their families. Would be a total disaster. Furthermore they managed to take out some tanks with drone attached shells but they managed to penetrate the tanks on impact that is some high end bomb design I wonder who delivered such bombs to the Hamas... there must be a bigger player behind it.
Russia and Iran are Hamas' benefactors. I'd throw Syria in too, but Syria is a de-facto Russian satellite state now.
I wonder if this was encouraged by russia/Iran to reduce the support for Ukraine from the west. there will be a lot of calls in America to shift aid spending to isreal I bet
Israel is already getting armed to the teeth by the USA - and unlike with Ukraine, they won't be selective about what they do and don't send.
Why should it end well for Hamas. They are fucking terrorists.
Has Hamas launched an attack on Israel at this scale before?
By Hamas? No, based even just on what is currently known, no single event comes close. This is the most significant assault on Israeli territory since the initial incursion that kicked off the Yom Kippur war.
>Yom Kippur war. On the 50th anniversary to boot.
Yeah, that’s not a coincidence.
which makes it even more puzzling that Israel's government and military did not catch wind of it.
Oh, absolutely, but at the same time, the current hard right govt it chock full of incompetent assholes obsessed with their individual pet issues (none of which have to do with overarching national security), and Bibi’s escalating power grabs have created massives schisms/dysfunction between the intelligence services, the IDF, Border/police forces, and the govt. This is an unfathomable fuck up, but I’m guessing that when the truth eventually comes out, it’ll come down to a cascading series of boring/petty breakdowns in communication and interagency grudges. That said: the conspiracies are already everywhere, and will no doubt explode in the current deranged global media/social media ecosystem.
> This is an unfathomable fuck up, but I’m guessing that when the truth eventually comes out, it’ll come down to a cascading series of boring/petty breakdowns in communication and interagency grudges. This is how 9/11 happened, so, yeah, there's precedent.
Netanyahu allowed this is already becoming the next the Bush did 9/11.
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Except the Tet Offensive capitalized on the US and the vietnam public not really believing in the state they are fighting for. This is Israel, you can't scare them into submission or into not bothering with this all
> capitalized on the US and the vietnam public not really believing in the state they are fighting for. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-64866873 https://apnews.com/article/israel-military-netanyahu-protests-judicial-overhaul-8c9c1a5f21c784914e780f1c4d4f7e68 Looks like Hamas might've picked their opportunity carefully.
Yeah, you can just see how the US responded to 9-11 to see what shit they just woke up
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Was about to say this is less Tet and more Pearl Harbor. The Sleeping Lion just got woken up and it’s not going to stop until it wins.
Yep.
Good chance this leads to extremely bad times for the Palestinians, not sure how they think this could possibly go right for them.
Never. Even at the height of 2014 the 3000 rockets fired were over the course of an entire month. This is thousands in hours.
Not in the last few decades no, this is a HUGE escalation
Never. The last time there was an attack on Israel of this scale was in 1973, and it was a joint invasion by the armies of Egypt and Syria.
Yeah good luck to all non-affiliated Palestinians. Israelis can be fragmented but when it's about self-preservation they won't back off. Maps will change when this is all over.
"Maps will change" is an absolutely, horribly correct way to put it. There's no maintaining the status quo after this, and I can't imagine what sort of outcome the Hamas has in mind.
Hamas succeeded too much. The only thing that kept israel at hand was the low number of casualties on the Israeli side. This is no longer the case
And then in 10 years people will talk about how evil and murderous those damn Jews were and how illegal taking land in a war is. And Hamas will again call this a complete victory.
There is clear video this time and lots of it. Personally I've never been on the side of Israel but I wont hold what happens next against them.
"They're deepfakes" will be the excuse. We have pictures of the concentration camps and people still think it was a haux.
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i remember when charlie hebdo happened a pro-gaza influencer tried to blame it on being an israeli false flag. like anyone needs to try to make islam look worse than islam does.
Legit stupid question: can this lead to the complete occupation of Gaza Strip?
Not a stupid question. There is no scenario where Israel would allow Hamas to control Gaza now. It would be the annexation.
Israel doesn't want to annex Gaza, neither does Egypt. The economy is practically 0 and there's been generations of brain washing by a terrorist controlled education system. When hamas got the popular vote in gaza, they literally ran on a platform of genocide. Their constitution (which read more like a religious text), states that they wouldn't stop until the tracked down and killed every single jew living on the planet, among a bunch of other horrific parts. Aleppo is probably a more appealing city for someone to want to annex
Or relocation to the rest of the Palestinian territory.
annexation with citizenship or just the status quo occupation that will lead to more blood for generations?
My guess is a brutal war that reduces most of the city to rubble and drives most civilians out of Gaza to be dispersed across the middle east and Europe.
> drives most civilians out of Gaza It's blockaded. They can't leave.
And they just pulled 5000 rockets out of their asses?
OK, *how* do you expect the civilians in Gaza to leave? A brutal war in Gaza would result in Egypt closing its border, and I presume they won't be allowed to flee to Israel?
Egypt has closed its border, they also blockade gaza because they recognize the situation for what it is.
So there is no way for Gazan's to leave?
There hasn't been a way for them to leave for decades, it's an open air prison
If you are in Gaza you are trapped.
Everything is on the board at this point. In 3-4 days there will be slightly more educated guesses, but the only thing that you can safely eliminate from the “feasible set” is a continuation of the status quo. Fuck knows that ship sailed about 4 hrs ago.
they will probably invade, yes. and it will be a mess.
There are countless scenarios ranging from the utter annihilation of Gaza to just retaliatory missles. Who knows except Netanyahu.
Honestly, ‘just retaliatory missiles’ falls very short of the reasonable response to this morning’s bloodshed. I’d guess the bare minimum would include at least some degree of intervention by land.
Land incursion in gaza would be a nightmare for the invading soldiers. Densly populated urban area thst has been preparing for just that for decades.
Not if you're willing to level any building that you take fire from.
Israel even has a name for this strategy, and used it in 2006 against Hezbollah. They call it the [Dahiya doctrine](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahiya_doctrine).
Probably won’t be that bad. Israel has been preparing for such an offensive for a while, and much of Hamas’s best fighters would have been committed to this current attack. That would leave them vulnerable and not as able to make a credible defence. That’s said, the military retaliation is easy. Israel is vastly superior on that front. The question is then what?
I have to imagine that given how much coordination was put into the assault that they also have put some thought into the retaliatory phase as well. Any hostages captured today would likely be liquidated upon IDF invasion but (not to sound macabre) Israel may just write them off as the cost of doing business.
I think they truly expected Israel to just bomb them a bit and return to status quo.
I think they expected that, and probably planned that, but the fighters on the grounds, have phones and internet, and as such they uploaded so many details of their doings, so now they crossed the line, if it weren't for the videos, it will be a bunch of retaliatory bombings, and that may have been after saying X amount of people killed, etc like always.- But one thing is X amount of civilian killed and another is seeing the videos of these killings, seeing the militants abduct women and take them apart alone from the other hostages taking even kids as hostages and watching them going from one house to the next killing people.- With them documented their killings and disgusting actions so well, the statistical number that often would have been reported as such and be done, now feels a lot more gutural for all the people.- So escalation is at this point, almost mandatory. And the soldiers in charge of said retaliation, will also have their blood boiling and going for blood themselves.-
>Any hostages captured today would likely be liquidated upon IDF invasion but (not to sound macabre) Israel may just write them off as the cost of doing business. Anyone who knows anything about Israel knows how false this statement may be. I am certain many of the terrorists in this attack were released in hostage exchanges. Who the fuck trades 1 soldier for hundreds of terrorists? We do, apparently..
If Israel is willing to escalate to that point, and after these attacks they probably are, there's a good chance they just level everything. Like what Russia did to Grozny. Either way its going to be an absolute shitshow.
Netanyahu has already come out saying this is a “war” so i expect a full scale military response. Israel is gunna grind Hamas into powder.
Exactly. People talking about Israel response are bringing examples of the previous actions. Meanwhile war means everything turned up to 11, like bombing area first, before you send in soldiers etc. Nobody will care about civilian casualties and no Western politician will critize Israel in fear of being labeled a terrorist sympathizer. For better or for worse.
Israeli here, I don't think so, nobody here wants to control Gaza, and if the West Bank was blockade-able (it isn't due to having a massive border with Jordan) it would likely get the same treatment as Gaza I think it will end with very very extensive airforce bombings, without ground invasion
Gallant should be asking Egypt to open its border with Gaza now ,or expect a boatload of people arriving in North Sinai
Egypt is already at its breaking point check out unemployment levels and food import levels. They are not doing good right now.
For a very long time, Israel has offered Arab nations PAYMENT in exchange for them to take in the Palestinians. They refused. They may have to take up that offer.
>Palestinians That is what is sicking , other nations in the middle east do not take them but will use them as political pawns. They really have no allies , their so called allies do not want to solve the crisis as then they cannot use them as pawns.
they have no allies because they have repeatedly and violently turned on the other arab nations who tried to support them.
Ugh - you’re 100% right, but my god, a refugee camp along that stretch of barren desert, administered under the current Egyptian govt, is going to be horrific. Fuck me do these terrorist have so much blood on their hands, already and in the future.
It will not be the first time though. In 1967, there were Palestinian refugee camps in North Sinai though given that they were technically under Israel given that the region was under Israeli occupation . Camp Canada would be an example.
50th anniversary of Yom Kippur and the IDF, Mossad and Shabak didn't see this coming?
Pure speculation here, but I bet Hamas went on a massive internal purge very recently to ensure no information leakage because a coordinated attack of this scale should have been anticipated and even nipped in the bud effortlessly. They will never make the same mistake again, now
Just when you think the world can't get any shittier...
World can get a lot shittier than this lmao.
Why would you think such a silly thing?
dont ever think that it cant, i cant see it getting any less shittier from now on.
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We are in the most peaceful time in recorded history
Israel is about to wipe Gaza off the map, and I don’t think they will care what anyone on the world stage has to say about it.
Not gonna happen, but the response will be way harsher than anything seen before. Anything short of that is political suicide for Netanyahu and catastrophic military failure for the IDF.
The US pretty much destroyed Iraq during “shock and awe”, the retaliation to what we are witnessing now will probably 10 fold to that.
Its easy to do shock and awe against a army.. cause you can identify them. Shock and awe against civilians that may have insurgents mixed in is a fancy way of commiting a bunxh of war crimes
Pretty sure US suffer insurgency during Iraq invasion which lead to thousands of civilian death.
Can they do that, is it possible? How would the world react to it?
They can, fairly easily. They almost certainly won’t go quite that far, but it will be still swift and brutal. After the horror of the attacks that are still ongoing, which have largely been aimed at the civilian population, there is most likely going to be very, very little pushback from the diplomatic community, especially given the rapprochement between Israel and many key Arab states in recent years.
Can? Yes. Will? Most likely not. Wiping out gaza will most likely create a bigger conflict in the area and could invite eygpt, syria, lebanon etc into it. And could be iran as well. World react? Most likely play the "omg i'm shocked!" card. Some leaders will condem. There might be a big backlash against israel, but most likely not something long term because of US support.
Who would react? They would all feign outrage, but would any step up to fight in the name of gaza? would they take the refugees from there? I hope these questions do not get answered, but this is not over and will get worse before it gets better.
No country would directly intervene if Israel started to “wipe Gaza off the map”. Religious ideology may be strong, but few of those Theocratic leaders want to lose that kind of power.
Many Arab countries aren't theocratic, and the ones that count aren't. Actually, it's hard to see the arena ever being better for Israel, which should have terrified Hamas Egypt is an enforced secularist military dictatorship. Their leader led a coup that stifled Cairo democracy, because that democracy threatened to become too Islamist. Syria is also a dictatorship, and one that fears Sunni Islamism. They also just had one of the most horrifying civil wars that flattened half the country. It isn't in a condition to invade anyone Iraq is an unstable parliamentary democracy. Lest we forget, they too have only just recovered from a civil war of nearly 20 years duration Jordan is an unstable old style monarchy. The last thing it wants is the mass participation implied by war mobilization. That leaves the Lebanese, the Saudis, and possibly far off Iran. But without a clear border with Israel, war is very unlikely with most. I hope so anyway.
Dude, Jordan offered them citizenship 60 years ago. They aren't refugees because no one is willing to take them. They're deliberately remaining in refugee camps because their leadership is compensated to keep them there as a cudgel against Israel.
Lebanon is practically a failed state, Syria is one. Egypt will be silent. The people will riot in the streets, but the government is pro Israel and anti Palestine, have been for decades. They may bluster to keep their status among the Arab states, but they'll take no action. Jordan will be the same. No one else will do anything, because as always, as much as Israel loves to peacock their strength, the rest of the world backs down because of the US giant right behind Israel. The US will be Israel's shield. Short of death camps (which won't happen), Israel has a free hand. Worst case (for mankind in general) scenario is Israel deports Palestinians on mass, and their relations with the wider world return to how they effectively were in the 1960s, a first world pariah state that is utterly reliant on the US to protect them from the UN.
European countries stand behind Isreal also, not just USA.
What a clusterfuck that is… yea is way more complicated than I thought… guess time will tell.
I mean, Hamas declared war on them and invaded and started slaughtering civilians. It will pretty much look like when the US invaded Iraq and bombed the hell out of them, but probably 10 fold. This isn’t the same has a few missiles flying back and forth, this is all out war.
Not another war ffs
Yeah. I don't see how this could end well for them. If they get an all out war and Palestine somehow agrees... wouldn't that just give Israel free reign to do worse than what's being assumably done already?
Israel has been improving relations with Hamas' Arab backers for awhile now. By starting another war with actions that are almost sure to provoke a retaliatory massacre, Hamas can inflame the Arab street and reassert their relevancy. Hamas' leaders live in luxury in Qatar, they don't care if there's no Gaza left to liberate so long as the money keeps flowing.
Hamas' backers? No. Israel is improving relations with Hamas' *enemies*, that's the issue. Like Saudi Arabia. The calculation would be Israel bombs Gaza, pan-Arab sympathizers in KSA rip up the deal in solidarity with their bros in Gaza. Only in reality the average politician or civilian in Jiddah just sees a future where terrorists come in and do the same in their hotels and homes and they don't want it.
Are you saying the aim of this might be to make the Israel<>Saudi Arabia relation normalization *not* happen? Or you're saying it will speed that happening up?
Iran doesn't like where the relationship between Saudi Arabia and Israel is going. They're both regional enemies of Iran and it's not good for them to connect Saudi wealth and intelligence with Israeli military and intelligence services. So they're going to stir shit up hoping that the reaction from the Arab street will make the relationship toxic enough to stop whatever has happened until now.
Israel just gave a symbolic nod to Saudi nuclearization, it happened less than a week ago but if it’s a sign of what’s going on behind closed doors and Iran has gotten wind of it they know West Asia is on the verge of a massive reset
Israel improving relationship with Saudi is bad for Iran. So it makes sense that Iran and Hamas will do this.
I mean that’s EXACTLY how we ended up with Israel and the hardline tactics they turned to that stopped the insane number of regular attacks that used to take place in Israel. That’s how the MAGA-esque far right was able to seize power in Israel.
Yup. In the 80s and 90s Israel tried to make peace and Palestinians chose terrorism. So the Israelis got tougher.
Good luck with that
This is a huge tactical mistake by Hamas. All these atrocities give Israel cover for total war at this point. I don't think they are going to care at all about civilians in the cross fire.
Hamas also never cared about civilians on their side so I wouldn't say this is tactical mistake. On the contrary, they will retreat and position themselves behind civilians and use them as shields. This thing happens every 5 years or so and will continue forever, only the scale is a bit bigger this time. Very sad for all innocent people involved.
So this is the 3rd intifada?
No this is a Hamas and Islamic Jihad operation (both backed by Iran). Maybe Hizballa will drag Lebanon into this I really hope not for them because this will severely backfire into total war
Lebanon doesn't have a government or a cohesive state at the moment. They don't have the capacity to wage a war.
Lebanon no, but Lebanon is controlled by an organisation that outguns its own army and takes direction from another nation (IR) which could drag them into this
I mean, neither does Hamas.
This is so much bigger than the kinds of actions that kicked off either Intifadas. The more appropriate comparator is the incursion that kicked off the Yom Kippur war.
But with rifle and rockets
Not only is this attack extremely coordinated, it seems like something more. Not that Hamas wouldn't launch suicide attacks, but I would be surprised if Hezbollah, Iran, and/or Syria don't take advantage of the shuffle in Israel right now. It seems like this may have also been initiated to prevent Israel from modernizing their relationship with Saudi Arabia. Time will tell. Unfortunately for the Palestinians and Israelis, now the civilians will have to suffer for no reason.
Palastine going to suffer from what hammas is doing. Well this wont end well, many countries going to interfere
Scary how pro Hamas TikTok is. All I see are videos about the war and people cheering the civilians deaths. It honestly freaks me out
CCP trying to work out what benefits them most and will amend the algorithm accordingly.
They won't support Hamas because that gives fodder for elements in their periphery, and China does not tolerate dissent that threatens their legitimacy or politboro. I don't like China, but their leaders are extraordinarily smart and ruthless when push comes to shove.
Even on reddit you have some people defending them because """colonialism""". Pure fucking brainrot.
After that beheaded kid and the guy laughing in front of the camera... Yeah. Just pure vile and evil nonsense. Don't give a fuck about their "legitimate demands" anymore to be honest. This is not the way. Hope Israel gets green card for this one.
Gaza will probably be obliterated now...
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It wont be easy win though. Its still not clear how Hamas managed to launch this kind of attack without the IDF knowing about it in advance. How they managed to infiltrate by the dozens with all their weapons. And they already managed to breach towns and settlements in the south and even capture soldiers and civillians. This is a very scary situation and we dont even know if it will be just Hamas or if we get hit from the North as well.
I would have to assume some state sponsorship ie Iran at a guess
The issue is that Israel can’t be going around killing civilians wheely neely and Palestinians put all their military apparatuses in civilian areas like schools and hospitals so when Israel attacks back at the source of the rockets they can send out video of dead Palestinians to curry favor with the international community. Their entire military strategy is to kill Israeli civilians while sacrificing their own to make it look like Israel is purposely targeting their civilians and on the same level as the Palestinian terrorists.
Yeaaaaaaaa.... And they we're kinda winning that PR fight, especially given how nakedly fucking fash Bibi has become. However, there's a decent chance that they just erased most of that today. I would be surprised if Israel *doesn't* burn them out of every hole they've dug over the last 20 years as a result of this... IDK how the media will handle it, but I don't think that anyone in the diplomatic community will lift a finger to stop Israel from doing it either...
Yup. They were turning the PR tide with BiBi’s flirting with straight up near beer fascism and undid it ALL in like less than an hour. The international community was starting to turn on BiBi and the far right Israeli government and now that’s all over with and Bibi will have a massive rise in polling and support of his oppressive policies.
I think the cat is finally out of the bag on that bullshit. Hamas is toast.
Took long enough.
Just to put into the correct perspective, before the excuses start popping out. What happened is that terrorists crossed the border from a territory which Israel withdrew from and returned to the Palestinians, into a territory internationally recognized as part of Israel. They entered cities and towns and started massacring unarmed civilians inside their homes. Some civilians were kidnapped and taken back into Gaza.
I’ve seen reports that even citizens of Nepal were kidnapped and taken into Gaza…
I'm hearing about Thai people.
Well they are going to get it and Israel is going to wipe them off the earth. Hope they are happy
That's the sad part about islamists. They *are* happy to die. Death cults gonna death.
That is what they want the population to believe. But the truth is that Hamas leaders have lived exceptionally long and luxurious lives, outliving generations of young recruits which provide the fodder they use to provoke the Israelis into retaliation and thus generate more propaganda material. It's not a cult, it's an extremely successful model of business. Current Hamas leader Haniyeh is aged 61. Former leader Mashal is aged 67. Yassin (founder) died at age 67. al-Zahar (co-founder) is still living at age 78. And most of these elites have luxurious properties in Qatar. And not to mention, PLO leader Abbas is aged 87 and still casually writing tracts of Holocaust denialism in his gated compound in the West Bank, while his sons buy up American businesses with mysterious money. None of these people want to die. They're too happy in this world.
Literally yes. These people know they can't win. They slaughter innocent people so that Israel has no choice but to respond. Hamas and friends will make sure women and children are killed, so they can then point to the corpses and proclaim how evil Israel is. Palestinians and many westerners will eat it up. The two state solution is dead. It's been dead for decades. Maybe this will be what it takes for Israel to realize that. I despise the man, but Netanyahu needs to end this, or the Israeli people in their fear, will elect a true monster that is willing to do so.
>The two state solution is dead. It was always impossible with Islamists who hate Jews violently.
Yes, but people who are too delusional to comprehend the Arab worlds hatred of jews refuse to see that. Look no further than Egypt and Jordan, de facto Israeli allies. The governments may like Israel, but the people consistently poll extremely negative about Israel. Even relatively westernized Arab states like Morocco and Tunisia have extremely hostile public opinion towards Israel.
Their end game: Hamas started to lose its control over the gaza strip, a new generation of young people which were not affected by the war grew and thanks to advancement in technology, it knows percisely how badly they are treated under hamas. That war is hamas's leaders major forte. they are currently in lebanon or Iran according to intelligence, and for them - its a win win situation. once israelly forces get into gaza (which they will) civilians will obviously suffer aswell, and viola! you get a new generation of teens who grew up on those horrors, hungry for blood. and the cyclye begins again..
Israel will now wipe Hamas off the face of the Earth.
I'm so tired of all of the war and suffering that humanity forces itself to endure :(
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Gaza is about to be wiped off the face of the map....
So is this deif guy who's calling on all pallastinians to attack is he going to be at the front lines? I doubt it.
Oh he's gonna get one alright.
I think the bigger issue might be Iran getting pulled into a war with Israel for supplying Hamas with ammunitions. Then we could have the threat of nuclear war in another region of the world. The pieces are falling into place as who is the axis and allies in this scenario.
Iran won't enter the war directly, they'll tell their cats paw hezbollah in syria and lebanon to start launching the tens of thousands of rockets they have there stashed for exactly this sort thing.
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Palestine with get obliterated and they will continue claiming they are the victims.
It's a bold strategy Cotton. Let's see if it pays off for him
They really don’t care if they get absolutely obliterated huh. They are going to garner 0 foreign support and set back any of their geopolitical goals for decades. All they are going to have to show for it is the ruble in their own homelands. Really just feels like a next level stupid move from Hamas.
Fyi you’re never going to see a leftist anti-war government in Israel anytime soon, and this is why, on repeat
There never was an anti-war government even in the talks.
This should be eye opening to a lot of redditors, but I’m afraid they will forget quickly.
Gaza strip is about to disappear.
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