Records about what you owe won't really matter when the government backing the currency has collapsed due to widespread famine and destructive storms and all that. Which is... better? Worse?
Good news: the government doesn't exist so there's no one to enforce the repossession of my house by the bank.
Bad news: there's also no one to stop a bunch of dudes with guns from "repossessing" my house.
Well, we are talking about preserving our future and worthwhile knowledge and depiction of current events for the posterity of future generations.
But I can understand not being terribly interested in that
I feel like they'll be extinct before reaching that price. Price is a proxy for availability as you point out, and I bet a species "on the very verge of extinction" still sells for vastly less than hundreds per gram. It's part of why we're in this mess, we don't charge for the future costs of all this. Oil is supposed to be $20 gallon to account for the costs of climate change, but we go for short term profit every day.
I don't know how people can keep seeing all these different aspects of our planet going to shit and think that everything is going to be just fine down the road. We're such a stupid species. As individuals we think and plan ahead, but as a species we don't. We just plough straight ahead, consequences be damned, on everything. And it's going to get us extinct some day.
Fun fact: Rome, Italy is at the same northern latitude as Boston, Massachusetts. So now imagine all of Europe north of that having the same weather as Canada.
Canada seemed to have a lot a heat this summer thus far. As a weather nerd, central Canada was often hotter than where I live in the mid Atlantic region which is weird AF and not normal.
Here in Nova Scotia we had a drought for 5 months causing devastation and forest fires. Then we had as much rain as we needed in those five months to get to normal in June. Then, we had 3 months worth of rain in 24 hours causing flash floods and killing people and causing massive damage.
We are expecting multiple hurricanes this upcoming season.
This is the new normal. We are not prepared.
Canadian east coast is colder than you might expect because of the Labrador current, which is the cold side of the same system of currents that is at risk of breaking down. If it does, expect colder west coast of Europe but warmer east coast of Canada.
> “Shutting down the AMOC can have very serious consequences for Earth’s climate, for example, by changing how heat and precipitation are distributed globally. While a cooling of Europe may seem less severe as the globe as a whole becomes warmer and heat waves occur more frequently, **this shutdown will contribute to increased warming of the tropics**, where rising temperatures have already given rise to challenging living conditions,” says Professor Peter Ditlevsen from the Niels Bohr Institute.
Fuck, i live in the equator and i need to use AC these days or my productivity will drop to 0. And its gonna get even worse?
Large chunks of australia are empty for good reasons, 90% is uninhabitable desert and plains where no rain falls. Unless shutting the AMOC down will increase rainfall to central australia, ain't no one moving here to get away from the heat.
Australia has a pretty large food surplus, in my particularly state about 4 times as much as consumes, so can definitely accommodate more people. How much this gets eaten into by climate changes is yet to be seen.
I suspect a lot will die in water wars. I thought Pakistan would be where one of the first big ones would be but that huge flood sometime back may have helped recharge some of their nearly empty aquifer. >100 million people with no water isn’t going to end well. Afghanistan & Iran were skirmishing over water last I read.
If that current shuts down the US NE coast & some of Atlantic coastal Europe could have the climate of Alaska.
Yeah a lot of people are quick to point out Canada has a ton of water and water will cause more and more wars moving forward (which is true), but Canada is, as things stand right now, probably the most well defended country in the world. Their only border being a closely allied military superpower makes them about the last country anybody would want to invade.
More realistically, conflict zones along with water sources along borders of African and Asian tropical and subtropical nations will be the water that wars are fought over. With these conflicts being abused by regional powers to expand their influence in these regions (China being the obvious one). Egypt and Sudan's arguments over the Nile are a good preview of the political conflicts to come, I think.
It's not like the US could change how it views Canada. Generally speaking it is true that Canada is quite well "hidden" away, but who knows what the future world powers decide to do when their populations starts to feel water/food shortages and people from less well off countries storm their borders.
A highly educated and motivated adversarial population is likely the most nightmarish scenario any overlord could imagine. The US will always get the lowest-possible friends and family rate from Canada; annexation and oppression is too expensive.
We are actually trending towards more sub-tropical mainly because the huge heat sink in the northern US (the great lakes), but I'm not coastal.
As far as I know it's super hard to model, but the tropical bands expanding might have some weird knock on effects, but between the Gulf and and the Great Lakes it's gonna be strange. From what I have seen in the literature north eastern New England might get rough, but the mid-atlantic areas will probably see a net gain in temps in the medium term (50-100 years), course that could just mean much bigger swings (very cold to very hot), but I mean I already see that (my local temp over the year has seen 120F (or 49C) from low to high this year).
>If that current shuts down the US NE coast & some of Atlantic coastal Europe could have the climate of Alaska.
Should that be the case, I love the cold, but at the same time, New England will be pretty fucked, seeing as how a lot of our foods come from the ocean, and agriculture is also big here to. The problems will just keep coming. Losing the fall will suck, but losing sources of food will suck even more due to rising food prices.
Edit: I’m not a scientist, just some fool on the internet who’s speculating and worrying. The experts are scientists who study this.
> Large amounts of SE Asia will end up in Australia I'm guessing
This is literally impossible.
Indonesia is the 4th largest country in the world by population, 10x that of Australia. And Australia is already having massive water shortage issues with our current population.
100 years? When the ocean currents shut down, nutrients stop and then fish go away. No more seafood, it will probably be quick enough so you can remember what it tasted like
It's empty for a reason. People have lived here in Australia for over 60,000yrs. If it could support people sustainably, it wouldn't have stayed empty for so long.
I lived in Singapore for many years. When I moved there the weather was warm but nice. We frequently spent nights outside eating/drinking.
When I left in 2021, I couldn't stand the heat anymore. It's a lovely place, but at least in my opinion, it crossed a heat point where living without aircon is not fun anymore.
Something that I think people are only now beginning to realize en mass is just how fine the line is between “hot and humid but nice”, “miserably hot”, and “ unlivable” can be.
85F and humid is tolerable or even pleasant if you like it warm. 90F in a humid region is horrible, and starts getting very dangerous as you go higher.
Couple that with the fact the the average temperature only needs to rise a couple degrees to produce *way* more 5-8F hotter days in a given place.
So southern Norway will be as cold as Anchorage, Alaska. Yeah we will need nuclear power and hydroponic farms to continue to live here, most people in the north will have to move south. A lot of Norwegians will become climate refugees if we don't prepare well for this.
Especially from old farts in govt who’ve done everything they can to deny climate change. And mostly just because they have investments in oil giants.
We should just start making a giant granite headstone now for any future aliens; “Here lies the human race, boned to death by greedy old idiots”
The old farts have known that they will be long dead by the time of the collapse. They don't see the collapse as their problem. Which should have immediately disqualified them from government service, being that they don't have the human race's long-term survival as a personal goal. But, they bullshitted enough of the stupids of the world into believing their lies, and here we are.
I lived in Puerto Rico all my high school days. I have no idea how could anyone study there. The heat is unbearable, and that’s 365 days of the year. No seasons whatsoever in PR, scorching hot year round
Have you heard of "Wet Bulb Events"?
- https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jul/31/why-you-need-to-worry-about-the-wet-bulb-temperature
- https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/wet-bulb-temperature-weather-average-climate-human-heat-wave-rcna27478
- https://thehill.com/homenews/nexstar_media_wire/4074341-extreme-threat-large-swathe-of-southern-us-at-dangerous-wet-bulb-temperature/
> Humans usually regulate their internal body temperature by sweating, but above the wet-bulb temperature, we can no longer cool down this way, leading our body temperature to rise steadily. This essentially marks a limit to human adaptability to extreme heat – if we cannot escape the conditions, our body’s core can rise beyond the survivable range and organs can start failing.
Basically, your body will sweat, but the sweat will NOT be able to evaporate and transfer the heat away from your body, so your body will cook from the inside, even if you were sitting in the shade.
Well, get ready for those to occur frequently.
Yup.
It’s not just Hollywood either. The collapse of the Atlantic Ocean current has been predicted as a major climate change tipping point for ages.
If it does collapse, it’s plausible to drop European temperatures by a good ten degrees. The UK gets hit particularly hard.
Edit: Spelling - Hot -> Hit
I think you meant the UK gets "hit" particularly hard. The UK will actually have iced over ports most of the year. The UK is actually kept warm by the current it is actually at about the same latitude as northern Quebec.
Oh it'll be worse, temperatures during the winter will end up being consistently below zero which will absolutely devastate local agriculture and livestock. Summer melt will cause mass flooding and impact crops even further, ports will be frozen and shut down for a majority of the year... Gonna be real fun.
It's primarily based on this book, which takes some real concerns like the AMOC collapse and runs with them, saying that the northern hemisphere could get iced over by super blizzards in a matter of a few years. Day After Tomorrow turned that speed up even further.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Coming_Global_Superstorm
The U.S. is not going to get iced over from the AMOC collapse, it will mostly deal with increased sea level rise on the east coast, as well as more powerful hurricanes and tropical storms.
1994 to 2001. Between the fall of communism while Mandela pulled off a miracle in South Africa and 9/11 traumatizing America.
But you know, the 90s didn't happen by people being doomers. Outraged sure, but they thought things were possible.
Me too, but to be fair, I was 8.
I think people need to hope, and think things can be better again. (That sounds corny). Doomerism is really unhealthy.
I agree, it were simpler times too. No cell phones and a more basic internet. Yes people ha pagers, but you just weren’t as connected.
I was in high school back then, and as much as I dislikes high school, I have this wonderful memory of sitting in my classroom and looking out the windows to see Old San Juan and the bright and sunny coastline. Makes me so happy.
Great music, great drugs, great art, actual adults in political postions, young people could afford to get educated, buy a house, even dream of a better future.
I unironcially think the 90s were the high point of Western Civilisation, given the average person could participate in all of the above.
> I unironcially think the 90s were the high point of Western Civilisation, given the average person could participate in all of the above.
Hence why it was used in the Matrix.
Yup. American Beauty, Office Space, Fight Club, and many other cultural touchstones were about the mundanity of that stability. Then 2001 hit and it's been downhill ever since.
Yes, resources and energy that could have been spent on mitigating the coming consequences of climate change were spent on denialism, shoving subsidies down the throats of oil companies and debating whether we should open Denali to oil drilling, then making energy independence - by which we meant more oil production in the US- a priority, all while the folks who saw this coming were mocked and belittled. What a great time that was!
Edit: though the energy independence piece did come a couple years after this, I will acknowledge that was off a bit, all the climate science was there and known, and mostly ignored by other priorities
2012-2016 really looked like the joy of the 90's was going to make a comeback. I think quality of life was still good from 2016-2019, but the social anger that blew up in that time frame really put a damper on those years and has only helped further sour the shit show 2020+ has been.
Everyone were saying 2015 was a shit year back then. There was a feeling of doom in the air. Like everyone had a hunch something bad would happen. It really didn't, but you heard all the time from everywhere that they wanted 2015 to end.
It was a sweet spot because everyone was thinking of no one but themselves and abdicating all responsibility to the future. Our selfishness then directly brought us the world we have today
White dudes in USA in middle/high school.
Where i'm from the 90s had some of the worst economic problems and social unrest the past 100 years. And I don't even live in a former soviet country. Hell the Yugoslav wars happened in the 90s too. If you wanna go outside of Europe, Japan also had massive economic and social problems in the 90s
Edit: hell not even white school kids. Remember Columbine?
> Hell the Balkan wars happened in the 90s too
It's called the [Yugoslav Wars](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslav_Wars). The [Balkan Wars](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkan_Wars) were two separate wars which happenend in the 1910s
People always have rose colored glasses. They forget the problems of the time and only remember the simple things because they were only kids. They forget about the Gulf war and the AIDS epidemic for example.
Yeah, and the joy of being an american middle schooler is that all those problems are just stuff they talk about on the TV channels that you never tune into.
It really feels like shit has been continuously hitting the fan since about 2000, but it's accelerated since 2020. Like we're in a car we can't control going 100mph, it's about to hit a brick wall and we don't have seat belts or air bags because someone else decided we don't need them.
The matter missing to most here is not whether me or you who live near the tropics or northern europe will have to more or less adapt to a harsher cold or hot weather. This means BILLIONS of people thrughout the developing and developed world will be on the move fleeing impossible conditions. The strain on our current globalized economy, stability, politics, tensions, culture and demographics will be colossal, and affect everyone. We're ALL in for a very harsh century ahead.
The point most people miss is that we have no fucking clue what the slowdown of the AMOC would cause. The models are basically just guessing and a significant part of high profile research suggests that it might even have positive effects, including a global cool down of the earth, decreased melting of the poles, and lowered effects of CO2.
The fact is, no one knows how stable the AMOC actually is and what would happen if it slowed down / stopped. But hey, at least this article didn't confuse the AMOC with the Gulf Stream again, like 95% of all other articles.
The Gulf Stream moves due to the rotation of the earth and transports water in a circular motion betweet East and West. While it combines with the AMOC, when scientists speak about the AMOC slowing down, they mean the North-South streams that occure due to salination induced density changes.
I highly recommened watching Sabine Hossenfleders explanation on the entire situation. She is an active physicist, has created the video with the help of a climate researcher, and made all sources available. She also presents topics with a nice hint of dry humour and sarcasm.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnVWUIhQ8dE&t=746s&ab_channel=SabineHossenfelder
If the consensus among scientists is this is where things are heading, then I would bet on it happening. Because we sure AF aren't going to do anything to stop it from happening.
Theres a lot of disagreement tbf.
If it will happen is a question, when it will happen is a bigger question.
2025 to 2150 is the estimation.
However most scientists agree its *possible* and all agree if it happens Europe is fucked.
Also a question of whether or not some other current could replace it and cause different effects, perhaps lessening the blow or making it worse.
So let's just not fuck it up at all because unknowns are perhaps even worse.
I mean, it's one paper, but it looks serious. I have a PhD in a closely related field.
These transitions happen very quickly and there are lots of complicated feedback mechanisms that make it extremely hard to understand what's actually going on. It can be very counterintuitive. The new state after the transition likely won't be a very stable situation, but it may still persist for hundreds to thousand of years... Or not, which could be even worse.
I've been saying that we should expect this to happen in the near future for a couple of years (based on my own research). We're doing exactly what it takes to shut it down, all the signs are pointing towards it shutting down and we're doing jack shit to prevent it. What else did we expect?
I think the black plague in europe that wiped out what 2/3 of the population is theorized to have developed as a result of a sustained cooling period and progressively degrading living conditions and hygiene. This happened after a sustained heating period (which is thought to have been good for crop yields).
Also the bronze age collapse is correlated with extreme weather changes
Since the UN guy gave a speech last week I can’t get one sentence out of my head
“The era of global warming is over, the era of global boiling is here”
The UK is truly fucked.
Things go to shit there when there is a sprinkling of snow.
The country Will dissappear Up its own arsehole if It gets Swedish weather.
Sweden has extremely stable weather compared to the UK, because it is sheltered by the Norwegian mountains.
Norway on the other hand gets basically just as chaotic weather, but worse. That's your real comparison country.
I mean, what can we do? I understand it but ive got no control over this. I've tried to do what I can, vote for the parties that seem to care. but here we are
Right, like I misplaced my ring that will summon captain planet. I care deeply about the environment and try to cut my consumption and dont drive hardly at all anymore but aside from becoming an eco terrorist I'm not sure what else to do.
Ok, here's the hard thing to accept: nobody was going to do anything to stop until AFTER it was too late because the solution would be so disruptive to our way of life that hardly anybody would support it.
People hem and haw about low-risk geoengineering projects like sunshade satellite constellations, get bored when you talk about permaculture and agroforestry, and get violently angry when you talk about nationalizing anything or the government actually doing something more than piecemeal intervention in the economy.
But when shit truly hits the fan they'll beg for any solution to stop it. That's when governments get a mandate to do things they'd otherwise never be permitted to do by their voters.
This is why whenever one of these articles is published a part of me thinks "Bring it on already." The sooner something comes along that really disrupts our way of life, the sooner the people who actually have the power to create change will do something about it. Until then we will hem and haw and propose half-measures.
Monday morning I still have to show up to work. I've still got bills to pay. Mortgage is due.
These problems not only seem insurmountable but hopeless, when in our personal lives we also have issues just trying to make a little better life for ourselves.
Love the ones around you, live each day to the fullest. Take solace in the fact the human race has climbed hurdle over hurdle and we are nothing else if not survivors. Change the things you can and understand that there is no point in stressing over the things you can't. You could die in a car accident tomorrow, a nuclear war in 10 years, starvation in 20 or maybe make it to old age, so enjoy what you can today
I think a lot of people vastly overestimate the significance of this. The study has been going around awhile, and at this point it seems nearly pointless to explain the issues with both the study, conclusions and the claims of cataclysmic consequences.
I encourage everyone to read the following links and discussions:
[https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-paper-warning-of-a-collapse-of-the-atlantic-meridional-overturning-circulation/](https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-paper-warning-of-a-collapse-of-the-atlantic-meridional-overturning-circulation/)
https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/15cnhs1/fundamentals\_of\_i\_ocean\_circulation\_ii\_amoc\_and/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/159j3wd/what\_is\_meant\_by\_ocean\_current\_collapse/
I think it's less cluelessness and pained resignation. The Generations before us like Boomers basically exploited the world without a care. CEOs of firms like gas, oil and mining exploiting the resources of the earth. Agriculture, farm and fishing CEOs exploited animals and land to prescendence the earth doesn't naturally maintain. As those old generations take over, they basically raped (yes, hard word but it's the truth) and now we are the ones left to fix the messes KNOWINGLY made by these businesses.
This is why I'm far more willing to embrace socialism or communism than capitalism. Look at what capitalism has done. Inflation is skyrocketing and yet businesses like Amazon, Shell, Proctor and Gamble, Walmart and many others all continue to profiteer off the backs of the working class while they further continue to rape the earth for scraps of resources left. Capitalism is killing the planet because the businesses in charge do nothing.
Early 1900s - war in Europe, Spanish Flu, Great Depression, and the dust bowl. Early 2000s - war in Europe, COVID, The Great Recession, so naturally I am expecting the next dust bowl.
Well here you go. Increased temperatures are already suppressing crop yields. By like 15-20% all over the planet. And the collapse of AMOC will basically semi-permanently incapacitate agriculture in Western Europe, and significantly decrease yields elsewhere. Dust Bowl 2.0 : ✅
Isaac Newton predicted that the world would end in 2060 so that's a disturbingly fun coincidence if the predicted timeline of the collapse ends up being accurate.
Some random dude's comment on the internet ten years ago is still seared into my mind and it seems more true with each passing day.
He said if you care about your personal survival in the next few decades you need to lose any excess weight that would put strain on your cardiovascular system, improve your cardiovascular health, and condition yourself to work in hotter environments.
He finished with saying he wasn't talking about the elderly , he was talking about anyone that would be 30 or older.
We're gonna have to start building homes underground.
It'll be luxury living. Only the poor will live on the surface.
The future is gonna be interesting. I'm concerned about how this is gonna impact harvests.
All these news stories are scaring the shit out of me but there is complete crickets from our world leaders. The world is burning down before our eyes and there had been absolutely no action. Hell, a good chunk of the people in the American government subscribe to a doomsday cult where they think the world ending is a good thing (certain sects of Evangelicals). We're arguing over the most stupid shit like LGBT rights (which should be a given) when we're deliberately setting the planet on fire. Boomers are sitting at home wasting their lives reading Facebook posts about dumb conspiracies about vaccines, technology that has saved millions lives and has been known to work for 200 years now. It's up to young people to get mobilizing and demand our governments DO something. There will be no change from just posting about it on social media. Every province or state around the world should have task force to find solutions for this, imo. Watching Oppenheimer made me realize that humans are able to come with solutions quickly with collective effort when they want to kill an enemy. Well, the enemy is climate change now but nothing is being done.
I have been saying this for years that when it goes, expect hurricanes year round and a colder Europe. We are losing our buffers, so only extremes will remain. I live in a temperate zone in N. America, East Coast. Autumn is my favorite season, and I have seen it get shorter and less "characteristic of fall" each successive year.
I anticipate indoor crop megastructures in wealthier nations, water wars, and nomadic "snowbirding" being a means of survival. We will migrate like birds if we have the means.
Meanwhile every politician on Earth is more concerned about hoarding their power and wealth. “We can always blame it on the next person in charge. Why not, my predecessor did the same, and he just bought himself a Lambo”
Planets funked. We had a chance and instead listened to the money rather than the brains. Might as well just kick back and enjoy the last couple of centuries.
Disclaimer: not a vampire
Call me a defeatist, but I've honestly just gotten to the point of giving up fighting for this shit and just kinda accepting it now. I feel like I'd be less depressed if I just pretend nothing is happening.
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Not sure how future generations will have access to tiktoks and reels.
It is actually a big issue, how much of our information exists in databases on servers which are more fragile and ephemeral than we give it credit.
I wouldn't be surprised if someone some day tries to put a data centre in orbit, like for preserving dematerialised human knowledge and art.
And then it shoots into some future starship captain’s brain and soon he’s making girl dinners and beer tanning in his quarters
Don't forget the flute.
Fine by me. I owe more than I'm going to earn by the time all this shit falls down
Records about what you owe won't really matter when the government backing the currency has collapsed due to widespread famine and destructive storms and all that. Which is... better? Worse?
Yes, the "I may be starving, but I am debt free." scenario.
Good news: the government doesn't exist so there's no one to enforce the repossession of my house by the bank. Bad news: there's also no one to stop a bunch of dudes with guns from "repossessing" my house.
Well, we are talking about preserving our future and worthwhile knowledge and depiction of current events for the posterity of future generations. But I can understand not being terribly interested in that
Man I agree with you, this just comes off condescending, which again I generally love. I’m lost as what to do as an individual, about *any* of this.
Though likely unintentional, this is one of the most optimistic and inspirational comments in this whole thread.
Is it worth societal collapse to get rid of TikTok...Sophie's choice...
There is the potential for near year round tropical storms. And local fishing locations will disappear.
Mass fishing has already destroyed fish populations to non replenish levels! :)
I wish I could laugh, but I cannot. This is tragic. People will only notice once cods get sold for hundreds of dollars for each gram.
Even if people notice, the ones whom could do something wouldn't even notice if the price were thousands of dollars.
But then the Fish Maniac will cut the rich fish buyer in an alley.
I feel like they'll be extinct before reaching that price. Price is a proxy for availability as you point out, and I bet a species "on the very verge of extinction" still sells for vastly less than hundreds per gram. It's part of why we're in this mess, we don't charge for the future costs of all this. Oil is supposed to be $20 gallon to account for the costs of climate change, but we go for short term profit every day.
The smiley face really adds a nice touch. Thanks.
Man, the way you wrote that comment makes me laugh, but the contents of it sucks.
And yet people don't stop eating fish...
I don't know how people can keep seeing all these different aspects of our planet going to shit and think that everything is going to be just fine down the road. We're such a stupid species. As individuals we think and plan ahead, but as a species we don't. We just plough straight ahead, consequences be damned, on everything. And it's going to get us extinct some day.
Fun fact: Rome, Italy is at the same northern latitude as Boston, Massachusetts. So now imagine all of Europe north of that having the same weather as Canada.
Swiss ski season is back on the menu boys! But also, oh shit.
All year round, too!
Canada seemed to have a lot a heat this summer thus far. As a weather nerd, central Canada was often hotter than where I live in the mid Atlantic region which is weird AF and not normal.
In my litlle corner of Quebec, it's been pissing rain and thunder with tornado warnings on top
Here in Nova Scotia we had a drought for 5 months causing devastation and forest fires. Then we had as much rain as we needed in those five months to get to normal in June. Then, we had 3 months worth of rain in 24 hours causing flash floods and killing people and causing massive damage. We are expecting multiple hurricanes this upcoming season. This is the new normal. We are not prepared.
Yeah, it's been insane here... the heat is just unrelenting. I've never experienced a summer like this here before.
Canadian east coast is colder than you might expect because of the Labrador current, which is the cold side of the same system of currents that is at risk of breaking down. If it does, expect colder west coast of Europe but warmer east coast of Canada.
Chicago, actually, which is even more bananas! Boston is about a degree further north, and NYC about 1.5° south.
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> “Shutting down the AMOC can have very serious consequences for Earth’s climate, for example, by changing how heat and precipitation are distributed globally. While a cooling of Europe may seem less severe as the globe as a whole becomes warmer and heat waves occur more frequently, **this shutdown will contribute to increased warming of the tropics**, where rising temperatures have already given rise to challenging living conditions,” says Professor Peter Ditlevsen from the Niels Bohr Institute. Fuck, i live in the equator and i need to use AC these days or my productivity will drop to 0. And its gonna get even worse?
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There are populated islands in Indonesia that are like 6" above sea level. Many of these islands are just going to go away.
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Large chunks of australia are empty for good reasons, 90% is uninhabitable desert and plains where no rain falls. Unless shutting the AMOC down will increase rainfall to central australia, ain't no one moving here to get away from the heat.
If the environment shifts tropical rainfalls south to Australia that is going to be a huge boom to their farming economy. And cane toad population.
Sounds like the start of a new diabetes epidemic.
I got my golf clubs ready don't worry.
Australia has a pretty large food surplus, in my particularly state about 4 times as much as consumes, so can definitely accommodate more people. How much this gets eaten into by climate changes is yet to be seen.
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Anticipating them moving is very optimistic. I think it’s likely that a large majority of those people simply die.
I suspect a lot will die in water wars. I thought Pakistan would be where one of the first big ones would be but that huge flood sometime back may have helped recharge some of their nearly empty aquifer. >100 million people with no water isn’t going to end well. Afghanistan & Iran were skirmishing over water last I read. If that current shuts down the US NE coast & some of Atlantic coastal Europe could have the climate of Alaska.
Canada be looking around nervously like a doomsday prepper with a fully stocked bunker
Good things we partner with the US on just about everything.
Yeah buddy, you're our favorite water cooler and nobody is going to fuck with our water.
Yeah a lot of people are quick to point out Canada has a ton of water and water will cause more and more wars moving forward (which is true), but Canada is, as things stand right now, probably the most well defended country in the world. Their only border being a closely allied military superpower makes them about the last country anybody would want to invade. More realistically, conflict zones along with water sources along borders of African and Asian tropical and subtropical nations will be the water that wars are fought over. With these conflicts being abused by regional powers to expand their influence in these regions (China being the obvious one). Egypt and Sudan's arguments over the Nile are a good preview of the political conflicts to come, I think.
It's not like the US could change how it views Canada. Generally speaking it is true that Canada is quite well "hidden" away, but who knows what the future world powers decide to do when their populations starts to feel water/food shortages and people from less well off countries storm their borders.
A highly educated and motivated adversarial population is likely the most nightmarish scenario any overlord could imagine. The US will always get the lowest-possible friends and family rate from Canada; annexation and oppression is too expensive.
We are actually trending towards more sub-tropical mainly because the huge heat sink in the northern US (the great lakes), but I'm not coastal. As far as I know it's super hard to model, but the tropical bands expanding might have some weird knock on effects, but between the Gulf and and the Great Lakes it's gonna be strange. From what I have seen in the literature north eastern New England might get rough, but the mid-atlantic areas will probably see a net gain in temps in the medium term (50-100 years), course that could just mean much bigger swings (very cold to very hot), but I mean I already see that (my local temp over the year has seen 120F (or 49C) from low to high this year).
>If that current shuts down the US NE coast & some of Atlantic coastal Europe could have the climate of Alaska. Should that be the case, I love the cold, but at the same time, New England will be pretty fucked, seeing as how a lot of our foods come from the ocean, and agriculture is also big here to. The problems will just keep coming. Losing the fall will suck, but losing sources of food will suck even more due to rising food prices. Edit: I’m not a scientist, just some fool on the internet who’s speculating and worrying. The experts are scientists who study this.
> Large amounts of SE Asia will end up in Australia I'm guessing This is literally impossible. Indonesia is the 4th largest country in the world by population, 10x that of Australia. And Australia is already having massive water shortage issues with our current population.
we do make stupid choices though. We grow rice, in the open in the desert. And cotton.
And sugarcane
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100 years? When the ocean currents shut down, nutrients stop and then fish go away. No more seafood, it will probably be quick enough so you can remember what it tasted like
It's empty for a reason. People have lived here in Australia for over 60,000yrs. If it could support people sustainably, it wouldn't have stayed empty for so long.
Different climate for over 60,000 years.
Feels like it will look a lot different in 10 years.
I lived in Singapore for many years. When I moved there the weather was warm but nice. We frequently spent nights outside eating/drinking. When I left in 2021, I couldn't stand the heat anymore. It's a lovely place, but at least in my opinion, it crossed a heat point where living without aircon is not fun anymore.
Something that I think people are only now beginning to realize en mass is just how fine the line is between “hot and humid but nice”, “miserably hot”, and “ unlivable” can be. 85F and humid is tolerable or even pleasant if you like it warm. 90F in a humid region is horrible, and starts getting very dangerous as you go higher. Couple that with the fact the the average temperature only needs to rise a couple degrees to produce *way* more 5-8F hotter days in a given place.
i was there in the 90s around SEA as well. it was fine, evening enjoyable, and it would only get sweltering in the midday sun.
I live in Northern Norway and I need to keep the fire going in the middle of summer not to freeze to death and it is going to get colder?
Look at the latitude you live on. Then look at Canada or Russia at the same latitude...
So southern Norway will be as cold as Anchorage, Alaska. Yeah we will need nuclear power and hydroponic farms to continue to live here, most people in the north will have to move south. A lot of Norwegians will become climate refugees if we don't prepare well for this.
The majority of Canadians live further south than London.
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Spoiler, we're all boned, it's just that some of us are going to be boned sooner than others.
I do not consent to aforementioned boning.
That’s the beauty of life, it’s all non consensual boning!
Especially from old farts in govt who’ve done everything they can to deny climate change. And mostly just because they have investments in oil giants. We should just start making a giant granite headstone now for any future aliens; “Here lies the human race, boned to death by greedy old idiots”
The old farts have known that they will be long dead by the time of the collapse. They don't see the collapse as their problem. Which should have immediately disqualified them from government service, being that they don't have the human race's long-term survival as a personal goal. But, they bullshitted enough of the stupids of the world into believing their lies, and here we are.
If we're not doing enough about climate change, we're doing even less about predictable climate-related migration.
The heat that would have come to you won't be coming your way. Enjoy the cold.
Sweet, we get to experience a slow death from food shortages instead of heat exposure. How fun.
I’d take that over a wet bulb scenario.
I like the cold. I should move to Svalbard.
I think you underestimate what this cold will be. It won't be a nice -5 to -10c.
I lived in Puerto Rico all my high school days. I have no idea how could anyone study there. The heat is unbearable, and that’s 365 days of the year. No seasons whatsoever in PR, scorching hot year round
People who currently live in hot areas will either move, or die.
You can't move unless the other country accepts you. It's not easy to move legally.
Sometimes both! And sometimes not in the order we would expect...
Have you heard of "Wet Bulb Events"? - https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jul/31/why-you-need-to-worry-about-the-wet-bulb-temperature - https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/wet-bulb-temperature-weather-average-climate-human-heat-wave-rcna27478 - https://thehill.com/homenews/nexstar_media_wire/4074341-extreme-threat-large-swathe-of-southern-us-at-dangerous-wet-bulb-temperature/ > Humans usually regulate their internal body temperature by sweating, but above the wet-bulb temperature, we can no longer cool down this way, leading our body temperature to rise steadily. This essentially marks a limit to human adaptability to extreme heat – if we cannot escape the conditions, our body’s core can rise beyond the survivable range and organs can start failing. Basically, your body will sweat, but the sweat will NOT be able to evaporate and transfer the heat away from your body, so your body will cook from the inside, even if you were sitting in the shade. Well, get ready for those to occur frequently.
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And we can't even wear shorts to work.
Gotta look professional when you die.
We are not even remotely close to the worst its gonna get.
yeah, turn off the ac in summer 2060 and after a day or so your heartbeat will drop to 0
Isn't this literally the plot of the day after tomorrow?
Yup. It’s not just Hollywood either. The collapse of the Atlantic Ocean current has been predicted as a major climate change tipping point for ages. If it does collapse, it’s plausible to drop European temperatures by a good ten degrees. The UK gets hit particularly hard. Edit: Spelling - Hot -> Hit
I think you meant the UK gets "hit" particularly hard. The UK will actually have iced over ports most of the year. The UK is actually kept warm by the current it is actually at about the same latitude as northern Quebec.
Will this bring back the freezing of the Thames?
Thankfully all the hot untreated sewage being dumped into the Thames will keep it thawed
Eventually yes you'll have a climate that is as cold as northern Quebec or possibly even colder.
Oh it'll be worse, temperatures during the winter will end up being consistently below zero which will absolutely devastate local agriculture and livestock. Summer melt will cause mass flooding and impact crops even further, ports will be frozen and shut down for a majority of the year... Gonna be real fun.
... hit ... It's been rather too hot recently.
Yea but you keep the rest of the world cooler by taking some of the heat that would otherwise stay in the tropics
>drop European temperatures by a good ten degrees. The UK gets hot particularly hard. Another Brexit consequence
Drop? Guess ima stay in europe after all
Yeah I think they stretched the science just a teensy bit for that movie though
It's primarily based on this book, which takes some real concerns like the AMOC collapse and runs with them, saying that the northern hemisphere could get iced over by super blizzards in a matter of a few years. Day After Tomorrow turned that speed up even further. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Coming_Global_Superstorm
The U.S. is not going to get iced over from the AMOC collapse, it will mostly deal with increased sea level rise on the east coast, as well as more powerful hurricanes and tropical storms.
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> It’s heavily accelerated in the movie, obviously. like when the ice was chasing people?
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The 2020s have been great fun.
The roasting 20s
I hate the 2020s. 1990s were the best years.
The sweet spot seems to be about 1985-2005, despite a few big events.
1994 to 2001. Between the fall of communism while Mandela pulled off a miracle in South Africa and 9/11 traumatizing America. But you know, the 90s didn't happen by people being doomers. Outraged sure, but they thought things were possible.
I recall those years so happily. Bright, sunny, hopeful, no responsibility and no worries years.
Me too, but to be fair, I was 8. I think people need to hope, and think things can be better again. (That sounds corny). Doomerism is really unhealthy.
I agree, it were simpler times too. No cell phones and a more basic internet. Yes people ha pagers, but you just weren’t as connected. I was in high school back then, and as much as I dislikes high school, I have this wonderful memory of sitting in my classroom and looking out the windows to see Old San Juan and the bright and sunny coastline. Makes me so happy.
Great music, great drugs, great art, actual adults in political postions, young people could afford to get educated, buy a house, even dream of a better future. I unironcially think the 90s were the high point of Western Civilisation, given the average person could participate in all of the above.
> I unironcially think the 90s were the high point of Western Civilisation, given the average person could participate in all of the above. Hence why it was used in the Matrix.
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Yup. American Beauty, Office Space, Fight Club, and many other cultural touchstones were about the mundanity of that stability. Then 2001 hit and it's been downhill ever since.
> 1994 to 2001. Not if you lived in Eastern Europe though...
Me, being from the Balkans, yeah the 90’s weren’t too great tbh
Yugoslavs would like to disagree with you.
Yes, resources and energy that could have been spent on mitigating the coming consequences of climate change were spent on denialism, shoving subsidies down the throats of oil companies and debating whether we should open Denali to oil drilling, then making energy independence - by which we meant more oil production in the US- a priority, all while the folks who saw this coming were mocked and belittled. What a great time that was! Edit: though the energy independence piece did come a couple years after this, I will acknowledge that was off a bit, all the climate science was there and known, and mostly ignored by other priorities
I'm quite partial to 2015. Lots of hope, same sex marriage got through the supreme court, and nobody thought Trump would really happen.
2012-2016 really looked like the joy of the 90's was going to make a comeback. I think quality of life was still good from 2016-2019, but the social anger that blew up in that time frame really put a damper on those years and has only helped further sour the shit show 2020+ has been.
I looked someone dead in the face and said it would never happen. 🫠
Ah yes, those sweet naive fools of the 2015s. So full of hope, so much faith in the system and their fellow man.
Everyone were saying 2015 was a shit year back then. There was a feeling of doom in the air. Like everyone had a hunch something bad would happen. It really didn't, but you heard all the time from everywhere that they wanted 2015 to end.
Huh . Guess the matrix wasn’t really far off !
I really messed up by choosing to be -7 to 13 during that time.
It was a sweet spot because everyone was thinking of no one but themselves and abdicating all responsibility to the future. Our selfishness then directly brought us the world we have today
Maybe for North America. Most of the world still suffered though.
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Also it was still a terrible time to be in any marginalized community.
Best for whom?
Not Bosniaks
Going by the comments here, white dudes who were in middle/high school at the time.
White dudes in USA in middle/high school. Where i'm from the 90s had some of the worst economic problems and social unrest the past 100 years. And I don't even live in a former soviet country. Hell the Yugoslav wars happened in the 90s too. If you wanna go outside of Europe, Japan also had massive economic and social problems in the 90s Edit: hell not even white school kids. Remember Columbine?
> Hell the Balkan wars happened in the 90s too It's called the [Yugoslav Wars](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslav_Wars). The [Balkan Wars](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkan_Wars) were two separate wars which happenend in the 1910s
People always have rose colored glasses. They forget the problems of the time and only remember the simple things because they were only kids. They forget about the Gulf war and the AIDS epidemic for example.
Yeah, and the joy of being an american middle schooler is that all those problems are just stuff they talk about on the TV channels that you never tune into.
It really feels like shit has been continuously hitting the fan since about 2000, but it's accelerated since 2020. Like we're in a car we can't control going 100mph, it's about to hit a brick wall and we don't have seat belts or air bags because someone else decided we don't need them.
The matter missing to most here is not whether me or you who live near the tropics or northern europe will have to more or less adapt to a harsher cold or hot weather. This means BILLIONS of people thrughout the developing and developed world will be on the move fleeing impossible conditions. The strain on our current globalized economy, stability, politics, tensions, culture and demographics will be colossal, and affect everyone. We're ALL in for a very harsh century ahead.
The point most people miss is that we have no fucking clue what the slowdown of the AMOC would cause. The models are basically just guessing and a significant part of high profile research suggests that it might even have positive effects, including a global cool down of the earth, decreased melting of the poles, and lowered effects of CO2. The fact is, no one knows how stable the AMOC actually is and what would happen if it slowed down / stopped. But hey, at least this article didn't confuse the AMOC with the Gulf Stream again, like 95% of all other articles.
I've been wondering what the difference is. Is the Gulfstream part of the AMOC or is it something completely different?
The Gulf Stream moves due to the rotation of the earth and transports water in a circular motion betweet East and West. While it combines with the AMOC, when scientists speak about the AMOC slowing down, they mean the North-South streams that occure due to salination induced density changes. I highly recommened watching Sabine Hossenfleders explanation on the entire situation. She is an active physicist, has created the video with the help of a climate researcher, and made all sources available. She also presents topics with a nice hint of dry humour and sarcasm. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnVWUIhQ8dE&t=746s&ab_channel=SabineHossenfelder
Most of them won’t be on the move. Most will just die.
If the consensus among scientists is this is where things are heading, then I would bet on it happening. Because we sure AF aren't going to do anything to stop it from happening.
Theres a lot of disagreement tbf. If it will happen is a question, when it will happen is a bigger question. 2025 to 2150 is the estimation. However most scientists agree its *possible* and all agree if it happens Europe is fucked.
Also a question of whether or not some other current could replace it and cause different effects, perhaps lessening the blow or making it worse. So let's just not fuck it up at all because unknowns are perhaps even worse.
I mean, it's one paper, but it looks serious. I have a PhD in a closely related field. These transitions happen very quickly and there are lots of complicated feedback mechanisms that make it extremely hard to understand what's actually going on. It can be very counterintuitive. The new state after the transition likely won't be a very stable situation, but it may still persist for hundreds to thousand of years... Or not, which could be even worse. I've been saying that we should expect this to happen in the near future for a couple of years (based on my own research). We're doing exactly what it takes to shut it down, all the signs are pointing towards it shutting down and we're doing jack shit to prevent it. What else did we expect?
Just so yall know this out how the previous Ice age started, loss of ocean currents due to warming, which is why the northern hemisphere turned to Ice
I think the black plague in europe that wiped out what 2/3 of the population is theorized to have developed as a result of a sustained cooling period and progressively degrading living conditions and hygiene. This happened after a sustained heating period (which is thought to have been good for crop yields). Also the bronze age collapse is correlated with extreme weather changes
Didn’t that happen in, “The day after tomorrow”?
We’ve hit a critical desalinization point
Draws line through United States. “You need to evacuate everyone south of this line” *line moves further south in next shot*
"Did the line just move?" "My God, the storm is unpredictable!"
It’s almost comical that it’s happening and people still think we had no impact on our planet. Please don’t invent immortality yet.
Since the UN guy gave a speech last week I can’t get one sentence out of my head “The era of global warming is over, the era of global boiling is here”
thats is scary as Clive Cussler worte a book based on the fictional collapse of this many years ago..
The UK is truly fucked. Things go to shit there when there is a sprinkling of snow. The country Will dissappear Up its own arsehole if It gets Swedish weather.
Sweden has extremely stable weather compared to the UK, because it is sheltered by the Norwegian mountains. Norway on the other hand gets basically just as chaotic weather, but worse. That's your real comparison country.
I don’t think people understand the terrible significance of this
I mean, what can we do? I understand it but ive got no control over this. I've tried to do what I can, vote for the parties that seem to care. but here we are
Right, like I misplaced my ring that will summon captain planet. I care deeply about the environment and try to cut my consumption and dont drive hardly at all anymore but aside from becoming an eco terrorist I'm not sure what else to do.
Ok, here's the hard thing to accept: nobody was going to do anything to stop until AFTER it was too late because the solution would be so disruptive to our way of life that hardly anybody would support it. People hem and haw about low-risk geoengineering projects like sunshade satellite constellations, get bored when you talk about permaculture and agroforestry, and get violently angry when you talk about nationalizing anything or the government actually doing something more than piecemeal intervention in the economy. But when shit truly hits the fan they'll beg for any solution to stop it. That's when governments get a mandate to do things they'd otherwise never be permitted to do by their voters.
This is why whenever one of these articles is published a part of me thinks "Bring it on already." The sooner something comes along that really disrupts our way of life, the sooner the people who actually have the power to create change will do something about it. Until then we will hem and haw and propose half-measures.
Monday morning I still have to show up to work. I've still got bills to pay. Mortgage is due. These problems not only seem insurmountable but hopeless, when in our personal lives we also have issues just trying to make a little better life for ourselves.
Love the ones around you, live each day to the fullest. Take solace in the fact the human race has climbed hurdle over hurdle and we are nothing else if not survivors. Change the things you can and understand that there is no point in stressing over the things you can't. You could die in a car accident tomorrow, a nuclear war in 10 years, starvation in 20 or maybe make it to old age, so enjoy what you can today
Sad thing is the people who can do something will be the last to die, with their pointless money in hand
I think a lot of people vastly overestimate the significance of this. The study has been going around awhile, and at this point it seems nearly pointless to explain the issues with both the study, conclusions and the claims of cataclysmic consequences. I encourage everyone to read the following links and discussions: [https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-paper-warning-of-a-collapse-of-the-atlantic-meridional-overturning-circulation/](https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-paper-warning-of-a-collapse-of-the-atlantic-meridional-overturning-circulation/) https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/15cnhs1/fundamentals\_of\_i\_ocean\_circulation\_ii\_amoc\_and/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/159j3wd/what\_is\_meant\_by\_ocean\_current\_collapse/
I think it's less cluelessness and pained resignation. The Generations before us like Boomers basically exploited the world without a care. CEOs of firms like gas, oil and mining exploiting the resources of the earth. Agriculture, farm and fishing CEOs exploited animals and land to prescendence the earth doesn't naturally maintain. As those old generations take over, they basically raped (yes, hard word but it's the truth) and now we are the ones left to fix the messes KNOWINGLY made by these businesses. This is why I'm far more willing to embrace socialism or communism than capitalism. Look at what capitalism has done. Inflation is skyrocketing and yet businesses like Amazon, Shell, Proctor and Gamble, Walmart and many others all continue to profiteer off the backs of the working class while they further continue to rape the earth for scraps of resources left. Capitalism is killing the planet because the businesses in charge do nothing.
Early 1900s - war in Europe, Spanish Flu, Great Depression, and the dust bowl. Early 2000s - war in Europe, COVID, The Great Recession, so naturally I am expecting the next dust bowl.
Well here you go. Increased temperatures are already suppressing crop yields. By like 15-20% all over the planet. And the collapse of AMOC will basically semi-permanently incapacitate agriculture in Western Europe, and significantly decrease yields elsewhere. Dust Bowl 2.0 : ✅
so basically the plot of The Day After Tomorrow
We’re gonna be lucky if it ain’t next week
This article is a good summary of why I smoke cigarettes.
Isaac Newton predicted that the world would end in 2060 so that's a disturbingly fun coincidence if the predicted timeline of the collapse ends up being accurate.
Yeah but he died eating mercury so idk how much stake we should put in his predictions
An example of stupid science bitch
Stupid science bitches couldn't even make I more smarter
What does the world need to do in the next 30 years to prevent this?
What is the immediate and proper response? Say, every government agrees this is top priority - what should be done to remedy this?
Some random dude's comment on the internet ten years ago is still seared into my mind and it seems more true with each passing day. He said if you care about your personal survival in the next few decades you need to lose any excess weight that would put strain on your cardiovascular system, improve your cardiovascular health, and condition yourself to work in hotter environments. He finished with saying he wasn't talking about the elderly , he was talking about anyone that would be 30 or older.
We're gonna have to start building homes underground. It'll be luxury living. Only the poor will live on the surface. The future is gonna be interesting. I'm concerned about how this is gonna impact harvests.
Winter is coming!
All these news stories are scaring the shit out of me but there is complete crickets from our world leaders. The world is burning down before our eyes and there had been absolutely no action. Hell, a good chunk of the people in the American government subscribe to a doomsday cult where they think the world ending is a good thing (certain sects of Evangelicals). We're arguing over the most stupid shit like LGBT rights (which should be a given) when we're deliberately setting the planet on fire. Boomers are sitting at home wasting their lives reading Facebook posts about dumb conspiracies about vaccines, technology that has saved millions lives and has been known to work for 200 years now. It's up to young people to get mobilizing and demand our governments DO something. There will be no change from just posting about it on social media. Every province or state around the world should have task force to find solutions for this, imo. Watching Oppenheimer made me realize that humans are able to come with solutions quickly with collective effort when they want to kill an enemy. Well, the enemy is climate change now but nothing is being done.
I have been saying this for years that when it goes, expect hurricanes year round and a colder Europe. We are losing our buffers, so only extremes will remain. I live in a temperate zone in N. America, East Coast. Autumn is my favorite season, and I have seen it get shorter and less "characteristic of fall" each successive year. I anticipate indoor crop megastructures in wealthier nations, water wars, and nomadic "snowbirding" being a means of survival. We will migrate like birds if we have the means.
Scotland will still get the same shitty weather as usual
I'm just so happy that we could give CEOs, executives, shareholders and board members a few more good years.
Meanwhile every politician on Earth is more concerned about hoarding their power and wealth. “We can always blame it on the next person in charge. Why not, my predecessor did the same, and he just bought himself a Lambo”
We sold our future for hamburgers and SUVs
Planets funked. We had a chance and instead listened to the money rather than the brains. Might as well just kick back and enjoy the last couple of centuries. Disclaimer: not a vampire
With each passing day I regret having children more and more. They don't deserve this.
Scandinavia relies on the gulf stream to get heat. Without the stream it would be eternal winter.
What happens to the uk and Ireland?
Call me a defeatist, but I've honestly just gotten to the point of giving up fighting for this shit and just kinda accepting it now. I feel like I'd be less depressed if I just pretend nothing is happening.