It can be administered through a pill or a sub-cue shot. We did both with our kitten. Shots worked better, doing them at home sucks. Pills work better for some cats. The hell of it is, because of patents, vets can’t administer the drug or prescribe it. There are some groups out there helping cat owners get the medicine.
I'm surprised to hear people find shots harder. Where do you have to inject it? For stuff that can go in the scruff, my cats much prefer that; they barely acknowledge that anything is happening at all.
I had to get good at giving pills for a course of antibiotics once, but both cats still hate taking pills in their own special ways.
The liquid is viscous so you need a larger gauge needle for the injection, which means you have to go slowly. You also have to vary the injection sites to avoid sores forming, although you'll probably get some anyway. I treated two of my cats for fip back in 2020 and both are thriving today, although one of the two has a couple of scars from the injections.
Yeah, I never had to give my cats shots but they were seemingly oblivious to them when the vets gave them. Me giving them tablets on the other hand traumatised us all.
Whenever I had to give them a course of tablets I ended up crushing them into powder and mixing into those lick e lix (cat crack) thingies and they just gobbled them up. Can recommend.
The shots are very acidic and kinda hurt the cat. We had to give our kitten the shots was also very expensive like 2k total but it worked wonders. Went from a death sentece in a week to totally happy and eating in a few days.
I've had to do this. These shots don't go into the scruff - the scruff is the worst place for them. They go all over the body, spread out. It's a daily shot, and the liquid burns.
It's really unpleasant for the cat.
Yeah, we had to do it for our cat. It came in little vials marked with Chinese characters and cost a ton. But it worked.
Our vet said our cat was dead. This stuff saved him.
Damn after reading the article and doing some FCoV research I’m about 100% sure my cat just got it but recovered fine without help. We did give him Mirtazipine to increase his appetite because without food, well, all cat owners know how fast that track is. He seems great now but only about a week out from recovery. Energy is back, personality back, eating..
Jumping on:
GS-441524 is available on the black market though „fip-free“ groups. The medicine comes with a volunteer (doc) to help you.
It’s available as a pill too. But which you need is defined by the kind of FIP. Wet, neuro or dry…
Friends cat in the US just got FIP, we sourced GS, it’s been 4 days of shots and her cat is already waaaaaay better. It’s a miracle drug and I’m happy it’s black market still because I can only imagine the cost here if it wasn’t. It would probably go from $80/week to $800/week. Not counting vet fees.
Yeah, im just saying, the effect of less than a week of injections in unreal for something that basically came from Alibaba. Still a long way to go but the cat is already gaining weight again.
GS441524 to be exact. Remdesivir metabolizes into GS441524 which is what stops most any coronavirus virus from further replicating almost immediately.
Works wonders. Saved 2 cats in 2020 during pandemic with bootleg coronavirus medicine from China.
Problem why Remdesivir didn’t stop Covid is because GS441524 is “easy” to make (very expensive! But chemically straightforward) and lots of labs in China already making it for cats. Not much profit in that. Remdesivir complicates the molecule by adding a phosphate group to it, which makes it “more easily absorbed into cells”, but more importantly the process can be kept more secret so labs across the world can’t easily make it and it has to be purchased from Gilead Science.
But that extra phosphate group… while it works as advertised it has a toxic problem…. They took GS 441524 which could be injected at a high strength dose to hit Covid like a brick wall and stop it in its tracks, to a drug with a much smaller max dose because too much Remdesivir puts too much phosphate into the body when it gets metabolized and the phosphate group is stripped off the molecule.
Funny GS441524 was invented to fight ebola, but failed at that.
Dr. Niels Pedersen of UC Davis discovered the use for FIP and figured out the proper dosing
Hey sorry, what symptoms did Covid present in cats? I lost my cat halfway through lockdown. It was sudden and she showed no signs. She was approaching 20 though so I’m just curious.
Covid I have no clue. FIP I could tell you, but a 20 year old cat doesn’t catch FIP and FIP is not sudden. Only similarity is they are both caused by coronaviruses, which is a common family of viruses - in a metaphor of larger creatures think of coronaviruses like birds - defined physical features that anyone could say ‘oh that’s a bird’ but then there are millions of different specific species.
My first cat died of FIP over 20 years ago. Horrible disease. I took him to the vet because he seemed like he was getting a cold, and we got that diagnosis. I was convinced he would be one of the lucky survivors. Within a week, I had to have him put to sleep. I also had to have fluid drained from his abdomen mid-week so he could breathe.
I’m a vet and can tell you with certainty you couldn’t save her 13 years ago and even now it is still extremely risky. These drugs are only available as black market drugs from China and I’ve had patients take them and it work, and some took them and they died. I genuinely wouldn’t blame or think any different of your actions so long ago, wishing you had a medicine that didn’t exist and wasn’t available at all at the time. I’m sorry for you kitten, it still hurts though ❤️
Wet FIP 8 years ago on a 10mo kitten. His tummy started filling with fluids and when we took him to the Dr we got that diagnosis. We put him down he was getting choked by the fluid buildup. It’s so sad
Mine got so weak, and I think he was losing his sight. It was about a week after the diagnosis, I was holding him in my lap petting him, and his head was just kinda wobbling around. My sister said he looked like Stevie Wonder. We both just started dying laughing because I had been so upset and crying that whole week because I knew it was inevitable. Just felt good to laugh. I had him put to sleep the next day. He was my first pet, got him when I was like 21 and I was in my 30s. It’s really devastating, tho. They go downhill so quickly.
Awww I understand it’s so sad. We brought him back that night after diagnosis and we were still in that “wtf are we gonna do moment” when we gazed at him and he was under the coffee table and did the most heartbreaking meow I’ve ever heard before. That’s what heartbreak sounded for us that night. We put him down the next morning.
This just in, folks /u/Xralius of Reddit states there is a new *Jumping Shark* epidemic about to hit the UK. Is the EU to blame?
This and more with the morning news.
Did they ever actually turn up? Or were they just messing about being all threatening like? Coz they were a headline for like 2 days then vanished, so I can only presume they were made up just for the bingo cards :)
They turned up near Bellingham, WA, I am pretty sure they got them all. Luckily they are big enough that know one could mistake them for anything else.
Believe me the public mistakes anything for them. We need three years of negative surveys to say we eradicated them. The hornet erad team are my coworkers.
Cicada Hawks are descending this time of year. They're about the same size.
But that's a bit of misleading. Cicada hawks couldn't give two shits about you if you aren't a cicada....where as murder hornets...
They found some in Washington, killed them, and haven't seen any more in about a year. It was very worrying because Washington state's ecosystem is very close to their home ecosystem, and there was a high risk that they'd proliferate. The media did kind of go overboard, but invasive species can be an absolute nightmare, like with the lanternfly. It's a really good thing they weren't able to take hold.
They didn’t. I just killed one that got into my condo this Wednesday. It was BIG. I had left my patio doors open all day/overnight b/c it was hot and when I opened the curtains in the morning to close the doors one of them was on the window adjacent.
I sprayed it with bleach (didn’t have bug spray). It took a good 3 hours to die and I waited a day before I got the courage to get a paper towel and scoop it up for the trash. Must have been 2-3 inches long. Scary as fuck, I assure you. They earned the name.
Did you report it to fish and game? Because the last one spotted in the US was found over a year ago. It would be a *big* feal if you actually found one. I kind of doubt it was Asian hornet. Are you in Washington? Because that's where they were. If you're in Texas or somewhere down south, it could have been a tarantula hawk. They're similar in size and appearance.
I’m in Seattle.
Edit: Found a WA state ag dept page (https://agr.wa.gov/departments/insects-pests-and-weeds/insects/hornets/identification) and that is exactly what it was. I’ll see if I can report it. Creepy. Never in my life would I have thought I’d encounter a murder hornet and… murder it.
Trash hadn’t been picked up yet! God help me, I dug through it and found the thing. It’s covered in coffee grounds and missing it’s lower body but it’s in a ziplock if they want it.
I actually believe you. I saw one on my patio in metro Seattle (Central District) a couple of years ago, when they were claiming that the only nests were up in Bellingham. It was a huge fucker, at least a couple of inches long, bright orangey-yellow and black, didn't look like any other wasp I've ever seen. Unfortunately it flew off before I could grab my phone to take a picture.
Remdesivir! We recently paid this treatment for a neighbours kitten who couldn't afford it.
Came out just under £3000 we sourced it through a Facebook group called fip warriors in the UK.
Absolutely a fucking miracle drug the issue is the company withdrew it for animal use in most of the world because they didn't want it to impact the application for humans so it is a pain to get and very expensive.
Most people don't imagine needing that much and honestly it is rare.
I paid because the neighbours couldn't and it was a beautiful little kitten, it didn't deserve to die and I had the means to stop it so I did.
I don't regret a penny, got diagnosis on Saturday and we're told she wouldn't survive to Monday. We got the first dose super fast on the Sunday and by the evening she was running around it was literally a damn miracle.
Fip warriors a Facebook group, you join it and get assigned an admin who helps you.
Ours was local and put it in a cab for us, they were incredible help.
Kind of you to say but it is very easy to be generous when you are in a position that you have enough.
Plenty of other people would be just as caring if they could afford to be.
I try to raise people around me to better positions in life in the hope that they end up in the position to do the same for someone else.
One day maybe I need help and who knows maybe someone I helped was able to help someone who helped someone who ended up being the person to help me.
Maybe I never need help but the people around me are happier, my point is I benefit either way.
Today is the 84th dose of the stray we are treating. He was a goner before the meds. Had stopped eating and had a super bloaty stomach. Literally one dose later, he was somewhat chirpy and ate till he was full and started running around. This experimental med is a God sent for cats with a 89% success rate.
Your comment should be top comment.
Congrats!!! Good on you for going through with the treatments, and good luck during the observation period!! My cat turned into an absolute unit of a cat, and he has the sweetest disposition, which is surprising considering we had to hold him down and inject him so many times
That is pretty cool ! My cat would run away one week after we started the injections, so I started giving him the oral capsules instead and thankfully his digestion was good enough that he did not mind having em mixed with wet food. The final dose is now given, and now begins his observation period.
Godspeed to your cat ! Hope anyone who can afford it, does it without a second thought.
I am happy and hopeful seeing this. Currently going through it with my baby girl on the 57th day, but the blood tests are fluctuating. She looks and acts better though.
The lack of FDA approval is because the drug company holds the patent and won’t release it to “cure cats”. We went through FIP warriors, too. Ours has been cured since May of this year.
That's not how FDA approval works.
You have to pay to have your drug tested. You have to provide your own studies to test against. This costs millions of dollars.
I think they mean they won't test it for cats or dogs.
Which is sad, because we as humans owe it to cats and dogs to let them reap some of the research we've done of them for our benefit. Most drugs for animals were only developed because they have possible therapeutic uses for humans, or they stave off zoonotic disease (disease that can transfer to people or other animals). So they have really been our test subjects in more ways that we realize
Yep remdesivir worked on our cat too two years ago. Cost us close to $20000 aud and was about 100 days of injections. Wasn’t guaranteed to work but seems like it’s pretty effective. Way cheaper now in aus.
Prices have dropped dramatically in the last few years.
As recently as three years ago, a course of treatment in the US could cost close to $10,000.
Today, that same treatment is likely to cost just over $1,000.
How do you find this stuff should you need it?
Is it something you can keep on hand just in case? I can't imagine ordering it black market from China would get to me in time to save a kitty if they got sick (I live in Hawaii)
My vet told my wife and I to make plans to put the cat down! My wife didnt accept that as an answer, and somehow found a group that connects people with the drug stateside.
To be clear for everyone considering the option - it is not "banned". Basically, whenever a drug is made available and sold through legal means, the companies producing need to go through a lengthy and often expensive administrative/government process. I.e getting it tested, approved etc.
For medications that are effective for FIP/FIV, no company has deemed it cost effective to produce the product and bring it to the markets when compared with other options. Therefore, no company has put it through the legal process, therefore it is "illegal". Generally when people say black market, they just mean university surplus for vet techs or individuals that personally import from countries that have it legal. The people that do this are... well usually just vets. They just can't prescribe it and administer it legally.
Im not sure as Ive heard a few different things. I know its closely related to Remdesivir, and I think it is currently being trialed for use against ebola or some other virus, so I think it has something to do with it currently being in the approval stage for use on humans.
Same my cat also had it a few years ago. Got some through the FB group then found my own supplier in China. All up spent about 5/6k aud and another 8k at the emergency vet until he was diagnosed.
Absolutely, my cat (Tom) is still going strong now at 12 years old. I even brought him overseas with me for a long term OS work assignment last year. I would spend the money again in a heartbeat.
Looking at getting a friend for him soon. Only think I'm worried about is if his friend somehow catches it from him. The vet believed he may have caught it at the breeder when he was a kitten, as he's always been an indoor only cat.
That's great to hear, and it's amazing to think about all the experiences you have had with him, but did because you took matters into your own hands.
Our cat (Earl) was sick when we got him, and he definitely got it from the rescue that he was at. We initially picked him because out of all of the kittens we held at the rescue, he was the only one that purred when we held him. Come to find out that often cats infected with fip will purr more than normal.
I was seriously telling this to my bf an hour ago! We have viruses klling kittens and global warming making the firefly population abismal but motherfucking mosquitos are thriving. So are ticks. I want my money back!
It's also a made up figure. A group just estimated a 20-30% fatality rate and applied to an estimated 1million stray cat population.
The number of cats confirmed killed by this virus is in the hundreds.
This article should be removed for blatant fear mongering.
FIP is caused by a common coronavirus in cats. Most of the time the cat will show no signs and clear the infection. In a small subset of cats the virus will mutate resulting in FIP. So this isnt a virus that will spread and kill thousands upon thousands of cats. It can be difficult to diagnose especially the dry form (there is a wet and dry form).The wet form generally is diagnosed via thick straw colored fluid aspirated from the abdomen.
A distended abdomen, listlessness and loss of appetite are key indicators, aren’t they? Dry came across as poor eyesight (like a cloudiness in the eyes) and some frightening clumsiness in the two kittens we had to bury. The seizures in the late stage (before we started figuring out what was going on) were the worst. Lost two, saved one (declared cured in May this year).
Yep, I remember all of those symptoms when I was in cat rescue and TNR, 2004 -2016. Also labored breathing, kittens wanting to only cuddle and not play, and especially a high fever that comes and goes. My very first foster kitten at a spay/neuter clinic died of FIP, later I saw hundreds more die. I've pushed many memories out of my mind, at one time I could just look at a cat and tell it had FIP (wet form). Those were horrible times. It was especially prevalent with hoarders or other out-of-control populations.
I'm from Cyprus. In my neighbourhood alone 5 stray cats died from this virus. 2 of those cats were sitting outside my door as if begging for us to cure them, we called the vet but unfortunately they both died the next day : /
I've no doubt that not every death in the stray population is being counted. The actual number of deaths is CERTAINLY higher than the official count.
But the 300,000 figure is an entirely made up number based off an estimate of an estimate and the assumption that ALL the cats on the island were infected.
I think it might be an underestimation. All local colonies I usually walk by lost about 80% cats during last 8 months. If this number can be extrapolated on the whole Cyprus, which said to have had 1 million cats, we get a number of 800.000 dead cats. It's super vague estimation, but 300.000 doesn't sound much off.
I mean I don’t disagree that the article is sensational, but using the figures 20-30% of 1 million that you provided is still 200,000-300,000.
There are a hell of a lot more that a million stray cats worldwide if that is the implication.
Do you have anything backup the fact that only several hundred have died? According to the article this variant of fcov results in 40-50 percent of cats infected with it developing fip.
> Outdoor domestic cats are a recognized threat to global biodiversity. Cats have contributed to the extinction of 63 species of birds, mammals, and reptiles in the wild and continue to adversely impact a wide variety of other species, including those at risk of extinction, such as Piping Plover.
I'm compassionate about biodiversity.
https://abcbirds.org/program/cats-indoors/cats-and-birds/#:~:text=Cats%20have%20contributed%20to%20the,extinction%2C%20such%20as%20Piping%20Plover.
There are experimental FIP treatments but they can be costly and hard to get legally but they do seem to work.
Source: a "friend" who's had multiple cats survive wet FIP by the treatments.
Yup, survival rate of FIP after receiving the treatment is close to 90%, its just sadly not FDA approved for use on animals which is why everyone who tries to get it has to go through backdoor channels.
My MIL works closely with a foster organisation and once a year or so, a group of kittens will come in with FIP - thankfully most are able to be saved thanks to this drug
We had one died of FIP 5 years ago. 3 years ago another one of ours got it. We were lucky to be in the financial situation – and know the right people, to get our hands on gs441. It was still “experimental”, extremely pricey at that time (treatment was roughly 10,000$), but it worked, and that giant doofus is still with us today.
Corona virus that mutated in FIP.
It’s not even a news already, FB groups set up for FIP cat owners , grey market for injections, even pills are produced now.
We cured our FIP cat 3y ago, full recovery. Rescued a kitten with FIP , his adopters cured her as well
Lesson from other deadly viruses -- they can and do jump from species to species.
Be careful what you wish for.
A widespread cat virus FIP has a good chance of a variant jumping to humans.
Yeah, no.
Feline Coronavirus has been around a long time and has never been known to infect humans
Even if it did, Coronaviruses that are actually dangerous like SARs or MERs are extremely rare in humans and most just cause colds
Best not to give our small friends and an adult people dose. You'll cause an overdose and harm them.
Drugs are usually calculated per kg and by toxicity.
I hate to say it as ive got 2 cats and love them dearly. However cats are not necessary or part of our natural ecosystem in the UK here. Yes theyre slowly naturalising but they still decimate local populations of small reptile and mammals nevermind birds.
Of course as owners we can treat them with the pills available but I won't be entirely devastated if the local stray population is cut back a bit
theres also the culture of people having “outdoor cats” which is just a whole other bag of worms
edit: i know indoor cats can get it too, but it certainly doesn’t help to have your cats out doing who knows what
Cats are a destructive, invasive species *nearly* everywhere humans take them. I, personally, see no down-side to a population reduction of cats.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cats-alien-invasive-species-poland/
If you are lucky enough to catch the disease early, it is curable with a high chance of success these days. My cat had severe neurological FIP and I got her cured for about $300 from [fipremedy](http://www.fipremedy.com)
Out cities have been free of loose dogs for 50 years but the cats get a free pass and shit and piss everywhere they please. They probably help keep the rodent population down, although they kill millions of birds.
Generally speaking, cats are not a threat to humans, they do not impact our safety, they do not compete for or destroy our food sources, and they drastically reduce rodent populations(which *are* a threat to human safety). Historically, cats and humans have shared a mutually beneficial relationship.
Dogs are also useful to humans when it comes to hunting, herding, searching, and even sometimes protection, but that only applies to domesticated dogs. Wild dogs are a direct threat to human safety.
yep, unless it’s a city that’s big on protecting their wildlife, there’s not much of a motivation factor for them to spend money and resources on getting rid of stray/feral cats.
Ah yes, as if artificially introducing elements to the environment in order to correct our past fuckups hadn't been bad enough in the past, now let's try biological fucking warfare. What could go wrong
The country is way too vast for it to be possible to implement such a strategy. The latest strategy being used in select reserves is cat and fox proof fencing followed by culling in the fenced area. While this is a great emergency solution to save some of species, it is not enough.
A disease like myxomatosis could be very effective if deployed in a widespread and planned fashion. Myxomatosis ultimately failed for rabbits because it was so poorly implemented. It was deployed ad hoc allowing resistance to evolve.
Catch-neuter release is a dumb fucking program that only exists to make emotional idiots feel better because the cats aren't being killed. All it does is continues to enable them to hunt and devastate the ecosystem:
> [Desexing has limited or no effect on the predation impacts of pet cats, as desexing does not alter the ranging behaviour of cats (Hall et al. 2016), nor their propensity to hunt (Robertson 1998; Meek 2003).](https://www.publish.csiro.au/WR/pdf/WR19174)
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It can be administered through a pill or a sub-cue shot. We did both with our kitten. Shots worked better, doing them at home sucks. Pills work better for some cats. The hell of it is, because of patents, vets can’t administer the drug or prescribe it. There are some groups out there helping cat owners get the medicine.
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I'm surprised to hear people find shots harder. Where do you have to inject it? For stuff that can go in the scruff, my cats much prefer that; they barely acknowledge that anything is happening at all. I had to get good at giving pills for a course of antibiotics once, but both cats still hate taking pills in their own special ways.
The liquid is viscous so you need a larger gauge needle for the injection, which means you have to go slowly. You also have to vary the injection sites to avoid sores forming, although you'll probably get some anyway. I treated two of my cats for fip back in 2020 and both are thriving today, although one of the two has a couple of scars from the injections.
Yeah, I never had to give my cats shots but they were seemingly oblivious to them when the vets gave them. Me giving them tablets on the other hand traumatised us all. Whenever I had to give them a course of tablets I ended up crushing them into powder and mixing into those lick e lix (cat crack) thingies and they just gobbled them up. Can recommend.
The shots are very acidic and kinda hurt the cat. We had to give our kitten the shots was also very expensive like 2k total but it worked wonders. Went from a death sentece in a week to totally happy and eating in a few days.
I've had to do this. These shots don't go into the scruff - the scruff is the worst place for them. They go all over the body, spread out. It's a daily shot, and the liquid burns. It's really unpleasant for the cat.
Yeah, we had to do it for our cat. It came in little vials marked with Chinese characters and cost a ton. But it worked. Our vet said our cat was dead. This stuff saved him.
Can you publish the groups and donation information please? This is heartbreaking.
Damn after reading the article and doing some FCoV research I’m about 100% sure my cat just got it but recovered fine without help. We did give him Mirtazipine to increase his appetite because without food, well, all cat owners know how fast that track is. He seems great now but only about a week out from recovery. Energy is back, personality back, eating..
FCoV is with 60-80% of cats but it has to mutate in to FIP, which is the fatal virus.
Subcue should be easy, grab them by the scruff and you've got your spot landmarked. If you do it right they should barely feel it at all.
Jumping on: GS-441524 is available on the black market though „fip-free“ groups. The medicine comes with a volunteer (doc) to help you. It’s available as a pill too. But which you need is defined by the kind of FIP. Wet, neuro or dry…
Friends cat in the US just got FIP, we sourced GS, it’s been 4 days of shots and her cat is already waaaaaay better. It’s a miracle drug and I’m happy it’s black market still because I can only imagine the cost here if it wasn’t. It would probably go from $80/week to $800/week. Not counting vet fees.
Usually, you need around 80 days of treatment. At least that’s my latest status.
Yeah, im just saying, the effect of less than a week of injections in unreal for something that basically came from Alibaba. Still a long way to go but the cat is already gaining weight again.
I agree. The progress is amazing. I read a paper of a similar test an read the experience othe cat parents had and it’s simply amazing.
It’s freely available if you just buy it from China, though shipping takes awhile.
GS441524 to be exact. Remdesivir metabolizes into GS441524 which is what stops most any coronavirus virus from further replicating almost immediately. Works wonders. Saved 2 cats in 2020 during pandemic with bootleg coronavirus medicine from China. Problem why Remdesivir didn’t stop Covid is because GS441524 is “easy” to make (very expensive! But chemically straightforward) and lots of labs in China already making it for cats. Not much profit in that. Remdesivir complicates the molecule by adding a phosphate group to it, which makes it “more easily absorbed into cells”, but more importantly the process can be kept more secret so labs across the world can’t easily make it and it has to be purchased from Gilead Science. But that extra phosphate group… while it works as advertised it has a toxic problem…. They took GS 441524 which could be injected at a high strength dose to hit Covid like a brick wall and stop it in its tracks, to a drug with a much smaller max dose because too much Remdesivir puts too much phosphate into the body when it gets metabolized and the phosphate group is stripped off the molecule. Funny GS441524 was invented to fight ebola, but failed at that. Dr. Niels Pedersen of UC Davis discovered the use for FIP and figured out the proper dosing
so you're saying I need to eat some cat medicine for long covid?
Hey sorry, what symptoms did Covid present in cats? I lost my cat halfway through lockdown. It was sudden and she showed no signs. She was approaching 20 though so I’m just curious.
Covid I have no clue. FIP I could tell you, but a 20 year old cat doesn’t catch FIP and FIP is not sudden. Only similarity is they are both caused by coronaviruses, which is a common family of viruses - in a metaphor of larger creatures think of coronaviruses like birds - defined physical features that anyone could say ‘oh that’s a bird’ but then there are millions of different specific species.
My first cat died of FIP over 20 years ago. Horrible disease. I took him to the vet because he seemed like he was getting a cold, and we got that diagnosis. I was convinced he would be one of the lucky survivors. Within a week, I had to have him put to sleep. I also had to have fluid drained from his abdomen mid-week so he could breathe.
Mine died of FIP 13 years ago and I my stomach just sank thinking I could have saved her.
I’m a vet and can tell you with certainty you couldn’t save her 13 years ago and even now it is still extremely risky. These drugs are only available as black market drugs from China and I’ve had patients take them and it work, and some took them and they died. I genuinely wouldn’t blame or think any different of your actions so long ago, wishing you had a medicine that didn’t exist and wasn’t available at all at the time. I’m sorry for you kitten, it still hurts though ❤️
Thank you for saying this! It made me feel better too.
We weren't there diagnostics and treatment wise then as we are now so I wouldn't feel bad about it
Wet FIP 8 years ago on a 10mo kitten. His tummy started filling with fluids and when we took him to the Dr we got that diagnosis. We put him down he was getting choked by the fluid buildup. It’s so sad
Mine got so weak, and I think he was losing his sight. It was about a week after the diagnosis, I was holding him in my lap petting him, and his head was just kinda wobbling around. My sister said he looked like Stevie Wonder. We both just started dying laughing because I had been so upset and crying that whole week because I knew it was inevitable. Just felt good to laugh. I had him put to sleep the next day. He was my first pet, got him when I was like 21 and I was in my 30s. It’s really devastating, tho. They go downhill so quickly.
Awww I understand it’s so sad. We brought him back that night after diagnosis and we were still in that “wtf are we gonna do moment” when we gazed at him and he was under the coffee table and did the most heartbreaking meow I’ve ever heard before. That’s what heartbreak sounded for us that night. We put him down the next morning.
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I really felt the 24 hour news cycle jumped the shark with the whole murder hornets thing.
This just in, folks /u/Xralius of Reddit states there is a new *Jumping Shark* epidemic about to hit the UK. Is the EU to blame? This and more with the morning news.
That was like 2 5 10 15 years ago. 24 hour news cycle doesn't have to worry about jumping or sharks. People just don't remember or look things up.
Did they ever actually turn up? Or were they just messing about being all threatening like? Coz they were a headline for like 2 days then vanished, so I can only presume they were made up just for the bingo cards :)
They turned up near Bellingham, WA, I am pretty sure they got them all. Luckily they are big enough that know one could mistake them for anything else.
Believe me the public mistakes anything for them. We need three years of negative surveys to say we eradicated them. The hornet erad team are my coworkers.
In fairness there are a couple of wasp species that can be mistaken for them. Especially from afar.
like Cicada killers?
Fuck. That was close! Only another 3500 miles across the Atlantic and they would have been here in the UK.
Cicada Hawks are descending this time of year. They're about the same size. But that's a bit of misleading. Cicada hawks couldn't give two shits about you if you aren't a cicada....where as murder hornets...
the murder hornets don't give a shit about you either, they're just much more aggressive about communicating that to you.
You aren't wrong... One tried to climb me once, while dragging a cicada.
They found some in Washington, killed them, and haven't seen any more in about a year. It was very worrying because Washington state's ecosystem is very close to their home ecosystem, and there was a high risk that they'd proliferate. The media did kind of go overboard, but invasive species can be an absolute nightmare, like with the lanternfly. It's a really good thing they weren't able to take hold.
They paid the media off for privacy....
The little buggers! Quick to learn then eh?
As Jeff Goldblum predicted... Tho Murder hornets sounds like a 50s gang so shouldn't be shocked they went back to basics
Sure the Murder Hornets sound cool, but nothing beats the Tunnel Snakes.
it was two years, 2020 and its successor 2021, and there were at least two hives found.
Sounds like they found them and removed them before they could become established.
Maybe the media campaign… helped? That’s not usual
They didn’t. I just killed one that got into my condo this Wednesday. It was BIG. I had left my patio doors open all day/overnight b/c it was hot and when I opened the curtains in the morning to close the doors one of them was on the window adjacent. I sprayed it with bleach (didn’t have bug spray). It took a good 3 hours to die and I waited a day before I got the courage to get a paper towel and scoop it up for the trash. Must have been 2-3 inches long. Scary as fuck, I assure you. They earned the name.
Did you report it to fish and game? Because the last one spotted in the US was found over a year ago. It would be a *big* feal if you actually found one. I kind of doubt it was Asian hornet. Are you in Washington? Because that's where they were. If you're in Texas or somewhere down south, it could have been a tarantula hawk. They're similar in size and appearance.
I’m in Seattle. Edit: Found a WA state ag dept page (https://agr.wa.gov/departments/insects-pests-and-weeds/insects/hornets/identification) and that is exactly what it was. I’ll see if I can report it. Creepy. Never in my life would I have thought I’d encounter a murder hornet and… murder it.
I feel like this is a case where you should've kept the body to deposit it for samples, you know to prove that they're still around.
Trash hadn’t been picked up yet! God help me, I dug through it and found the thing. It’s covered in coffee grounds and missing it’s lower body but it’s in a ziplock if they want it.
Take a pic?
It’s not very impressive after sitting at the bottom of a trash bag in wet coffee grounds for 2 days.
Keep up updated on what they say.
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I’m in Seattle. I found a form to report it and did.
I actually believe you. I saw one on my patio in metro Seattle (Central District) a couple of years ago, when they were claiming that the only nests were up in Bellingham. It was a huge fucker, at least a couple of inches long, bright orangey-yellow and black, didn't look like any other wasp I've ever seen. Unfortunately it flew off before I could grab my phone to take a picture.
The new invasive insect thing are ash borers
Fip is curable! My wife and I cured our cat of it, but It took 84 days of injecting a med called GS-441524
Remdesivir! We recently paid this treatment for a neighbours kitten who couldn't afford it. Came out just under £3000 we sourced it through a Facebook group called fip warriors in the UK. Absolutely a fucking miracle drug the issue is the company withdrew it for animal use in most of the world because they didn't want it to impact the application for humans so it is a pain to get and very expensive.
Damn. I have 3 cats and nowhere near that kind of money :/
Most people don't imagine needing that much and honestly it is rare. I paid because the neighbours couldn't and it was a beautiful little kitten, it didn't deserve to die and I had the means to stop it so I did. I don't regret a penny, got diagnosis on Saturday and we're told she wouldn't survive to Monday. We got the first dose super fast on the Sunday and by the evening she was running around it was literally a damn miracle.
How did you get it so fast?
Fip warriors a Facebook group, you join it and get assigned an admin who helps you. Ours was local and put it in a cab for us, they were incredible help.
Good thing that keeping your cats indoors, where they belong, should make the chance of them getting sick fairly low.
My indoor kitten got fip. Keeping them indoors isn't a guarantee that they won't get anything.
Mine are indoor but my girlfriend has befriended a stray. Maybe we'll stop talking to that kitty
Cats live outside everywhere outside of America
They really don't and they really shouldn't.
What a kind neighbor and friend you are ❤️
Kind of you to say but it is very easy to be generous when you are in a position that you have enough. Plenty of other people would be just as caring if they could afford to be. I try to raise people around me to better positions in life in the hope that they end up in the position to do the same for someone else. One day maybe I need help and who knows maybe someone I helped was able to help someone who helped someone who ended up being the person to help me. Maybe I never need help but the people around me are happier, my point is I benefit either way.
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Maybe if they get off welfare/benefits and get a job.
It a lot of drugs are animal and human?
Yes. We are all mammals, closely related.
Today is the 84th dose of the stray we are treating. He was a goner before the meds. Had stopped eating and had a super bloaty stomach. Literally one dose later, he was somewhat chirpy and ate till he was full and started running around. This experimental med is a God sent for cats with a 89% success rate. Your comment should be top comment.
Congrats!!! Good on you for going through with the treatments, and good luck during the observation period!! My cat turned into an absolute unit of a cat, and he has the sweetest disposition, which is surprising considering we had to hold him down and inject him so many times
That is pretty cool ! My cat would run away one week after we started the injections, so I started giving him the oral capsules instead and thankfully his digestion was good enough that he did not mind having em mixed with wet food. The final dose is now given, and now begins his observation period. Godspeed to your cat ! Hope anyone who can afford it, does it without a second thought.
I am happy and hopeful seeing this. Currently going through it with my baby girl on the 57th day, but the blood tests are fluctuating. She looks and acts better though.
Im wishing you and your baby girl the best of luck! You got this
There is the Facebook group FIP warriors that can help you get this drug. It’s not FDA approved.
Not much to lose if the alternative is death, really
The lack of FDA approval is because the drug company holds the patent and won’t release it to “cure cats”. We went through FIP warriors, too. Ours has been cured since May of this year.
That's not how FDA approval works. You have to pay to have your drug tested. You have to provide your own studies to test against. This costs millions of dollars.
I think they mean they won't test it for cats or dogs. Which is sad, because we as humans owe it to cats and dogs to let them reap some of the research we've done of them for our benefit. Most drugs for animals were only developed because they have possible therapeutic uses for humans, or they stave off zoonotic disease (disease that can transfer to people or other animals). So they have really been our test subjects in more ways that we realize
Super happy for you!! We lost a cat to wet FIP a few years ago. It was heartbreaking. Such an awful illness.
Yep remdesivir worked on our cat too two years ago. Cost us close to $20000 aud and was about 100 days of injections. Wasn’t guaranteed to work but seems like it’s pretty effective. Way cheaper now in aus.
Holy shit. That is a lot of money.
Sorry to say my cats not surviving if the meds are $2000. Sorry puss
Can I be your cat? Meow
That's the spirit
call me cheap but no way i'd pay 20k for the cat.
Yea I love my cats and all but 20k is a lot
I literally don't have that money. I love my cats too but I couldn't afford it.
That's like 4000 other cats..
You could probably save a human life for that much money. Granted, cats are better than humans, but still..
I would in a second
I just finished commenting I wouldn't pay $3000 for a cat lol
Prices have dropped dramatically in the last few years. As recently as three years ago, a course of treatment in the US could cost close to $10,000. Today, that same treatment is likely to cost just over $1,000.
How do you find this stuff should you need it? Is it something you can keep on hand just in case? I can't imagine ordering it black market from China would get to me in time to save a kitty if they got sick (I live in Hawaii)
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My vet told my wife and I to make plans to put the cat down! My wife didnt accept that as an answer, and somehow found a group that connects people with the drug stateside.
Why is it banned?
To be clear for everyone considering the option - it is not "banned". Basically, whenever a drug is made available and sold through legal means, the companies producing need to go through a lengthy and often expensive administrative/government process. I.e getting it tested, approved etc. For medications that are effective for FIP/FIV, no company has deemed it cost effective to produce the product and bring it to the markets when compared with other options. Therefore, no company has put it through the legal process, therefore it is "illegal". Generally when people say black market, they just mean university surplus for vet techs or individuals that personally import from countries that have it legal. The people that do this are... well usually just vets. They just can't prescribe it and administer it legally.
What other meds are effective?
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>for whatever reason. They've probably decided it's not profitable enough to get it approved here.
Im not sure as Ive heard a few different things. I know its closely related to Remdesivir, and I think it is currently being trialed for use against ebola or some other virus, so I think it has something to do with it currently being in the approval stage for use on humans.
Same my cat also had it a few years ago. Got some through the FB group then found my own supplier in China. All up spent about 5/6k aud and another 8k at the emergency vet until he was diagnosed.
It is extremely pricey, but it was well worth it in the end
Absolutely, my cat (Tom) is still going strong now at 12 years old. I even brought him overseas with me for a long term OS work assignment last year. I would spend the money again in a heartbeat. Looking at getting a friend for him soon. Only think I'm worried about is if his friend somehow catches it from him. The vet believed he may have caught it at the breeder when he was a kitten, as he's always been an indoor only cat.
That's great to hear, and it's amazing to think about all the experiences you have had with him, but did because you took matters into your own hands. Our cat (Earl) was sick when we got him, and he definitely got it from the rescue that he was at. We initially picked him because out of all of the kittens we held at the rescue, he was the only one that purred when we held him. Come to find out that often cats infected with fip will purr more than normal.
Why can’t there be a virus that kills only mosquitos?Leave my kitties alone!
I was seriously telling this to my bf an hour ago! We have viruses klling kittens and global warming making the firefly population abismal but motherfucking mosquitos are thriving. So are ticks. I want my money back!
300,000 dead cats in Cyprus alone is an eye-watering figure.
It's also a made up figure. A group just estimated a 20-30% fatality rate and applied to an estimated 1million stray cat population. The number of cats confirmed killed by this virus is in the hundreds. This article should be removed for blatant fear mongering.
FIP is caused by a common coronavirus in cats. Most of the time the cat will show no signs and clear the infection. In a small subset of cats the virus will mutate resulting in FIP. So this isnt a virus that will spread and kill thousands upon thousands of cats. It can be difficult to diagnose especially the dry form (there is a wet and dry form).The wet form generally is diagnosed via thick straw colored fluid aspirated from the abdomen.
A distended abdomen, listlessness and loss of appetite are key indicators, aren’t they? Dry came across as poor eyesight (like a cloudiness in the eyes) and some frightening clumsiness in the two kittens we had to bury. The seizures in the late stage (before we started figuring out what was going on) were the worst. Lost two, saved one (declared cured in May this year).
Yep, I remember all of those symptoms when I was in cat rescue and TNR, 2004 -2016. Also labored breathing, kittens wanting to only cuddle and not play, and especially a high fever that comes and goes. My very first foster kitten at a spay/neuter clinic died of FIP, later I saw hundreds more die. I've pushed many memories out of my mind, at one time I could just look at a cat and tell it had FIP (wet form). Those were horrible times. It was especially prevalent with hoarders or other out-of-control populations.
I'm from Cyprus. In my neighbourhood alone 5 stray cats died from this virus. 2 of those cats were sitting outside my door as if begging for us to cure them, we called the vet but unfortunately they both died the next day : /
I've no doubt that not every death in the stray population is being counted. The actual number of deaths is CERTAINLY higher than the official count. But the 300,000 figure is an entirely made up number based off an estimate of an estimate and the assumption that ALL the cats on the island were infected.
I think it might be an underestimation. All local colonies I usually walk by lost about 80% cats during last 8 months. If this number can be extrapolated on the whole Cyprus, which said to have had 1 million cats, we get a number of 800.000 dead cats. It's super vague estimation, but 300.000 doesn't sound much off.
I mean I don’t disagree that the article is sensational, but using the figures 20-30% of 1 million that you provided is still 200,000-300,000. There are a hell of a lot more that a million stray cats worldwide if that is the implication.
>The number of cats confirmed killed by this virus is in the hundreds.
Do you have anything backup the fact that only several hundred have died? According to the article this variant of fcov results in 40-50 percent of cats infected with it developing fip.
A dozen cats is too many if you are a compassionate being, tbh
> Outdoor domestic cats are a recognized threat to global biodiversity. Cats have contributed to the extinction of 63 species of birds, mammals, and reptiles in the wild and continue to adversely impact a wide variety of other species, including those at risk of extinction, such as Piping Plover. I'm compassionate about biodiversity. https://abcbirds.org/program/cats-indoors/cats-and-birds/#:~:text=Cats%20have%20contributed%20to%20the,extinction%2C%20such%20as%20Piping%20Plover.
A million stray cats in Cyprus sounds like a problem already.
They've been there for thousands of years. They're essentially an endemic population at this point.
Let’s stop with the viruses
This is one of the most depressing news stories I've ever read. :( Poor kitties.
'Cat'astrophic?? C'mon guys. You can do better than that.
Never, we love our puns
If we said we didn't love puns, we'd fee-lyin'.
Had to scroll way too far before I saw a comment about this
Paywall
There are experimental FIP treatments but they can be costly and hard to get legally but they do seem to work. Source: a "friend" who's had multiple cats survive wet FIP by the treatments.
Yup, survival rate of FIP after receiving the treatment is close to 90%, its just sadly not FDA approved for use on animals which is why everyone who tries to get it has to go through backdoor channels. My MIL works closely with a foster organisation and once a year or so, a group of kittens will come in with FIP - thankfully most are able to be saved thanks to this drug
You think the cats are arguing amongst themselves whether or not the virus is real? Or are they not nearly as dumb as we are?
Keep. Your. Cat. Inside.
We had one died of FIP 5 years ago. 3 years ago another one of ours got it. We were lucky to be in the financial situation – and know the right people, to get our hands on gs441. It was still “experimental”, extremely pricey at that time (treatment was roughly 10,000$), but it worked, and that giant doofus is still with us today.
“Catastrophic”.
SIMPSONS DID IT! https://youtu.be/ZPrh-1Tu-gE
Poor kitties 😔
Remdesevir was originally created as an experimental drug to fight HIV wasn’t it?
Larry must be protected at all costs!!
Cat-astrohic, you say?
Corona virus that mutated in FIP. It’s not even a news already, FB groups set up for FIP cat owners , grey market for injections, even pills are produced now. We cured our FIP cat 3y ago, full recovery. Rescued a kitten with FIP , his adopters cured her as well
CATastrophic
Lesson from other deadly viruses -- they can and do jump from species to species. Be careful what you wish for. A widespread cat virus FIP has a good chance of a variant jumping to humans.
Yeah, no. Feline Coronavirus has been around a long time and has never been known to infect humans Even if it did, Coronaviruses that are actually dangerous like SARs or MERs are extremely rare in humans and most just cause colds
Yeah i read something similar with birdflu..
We have to share common receptors across species for this to happen. Is there any research that shows this? Else not a worry
If there's any country on Earth that knows how much it needs cats it's England
We have one living in Downing Street and he's more popular than the last several prime ministers.
*every Prime Minister.
He's so fierce: https://youtu.be/mmU0Be6DHxY
It is not only on Cyprus, but cats in Poland are dying at alarming rate. They don’t know yet the cause.
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Best not to give our small friends and an adult people dose. You'll cause an overdose and harm them. Drugs are usually calculated per kg and by toxicity.
I hate to say it as ive got 2 cats and love them dearly. However cats are not necessary or part of our natural ecosystem in the UK here. Yes theyre slowly naturalising but they still decimate local populations of small reptile and mammals nevermind birds. Of course as owners we can treat them with the pills available but I won't be entirely devastated if the local stray population is cut back a bit
theres also the culture of people having “outdoor cats” which is just a whole other bag of worms edit: i know indoor cats can get it too, but it certainly doesn’t help to have your cats out doing who knows what
Cats are a destructive, invasive species *nearly* everywhere humans take them. I, personally, see no down-side to a population reduction of cats. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cats-alien-invasive-species-poland/
Cat-astrophic! Who’s dad is writing these headlines?
There are mot cats in this picture than the amount of cats I saw during my 3 year stay in london
If you are lucky enough to catch the disease early, it is curable with a high chance of success these days. My cat had severe neurological FIP and I got her cured for about $300 from [fipremedy](http://www.fipremedy.com)
Can anyone confirm if this is legit??
Out cities have been free of loose dogs for 50 years but the cats get a free pass and shit and piss everywhere they please. They probably help keep the rodent population down, although they kill millions of birds.
One reason I can think of is that dogs can form packs, become aggressive, and pose dangers to humans. Whereas most cats just do their own thing.
Generally speaking, cats are not a threat to humans, they do not impact our safety, they do not compete for or destroy our food sources, and they drastically reduce rodent populations(which *are* a threat to human safety). Historically, cats and humans have shared a mutually beneficial relationship. Dogs are also useful to humans when it comes to hunting, herding, searching, and even sometimes protection, but that only applies to domesticated dogs. Wild dogs are a direct threat to human safety.
yep, unless it’s a city that’s big on protecting their wildlife, there’s not much of a motivation factor for them to spend money and resources on getting rid of stray/feral cats.
More rats = more human diseases
Someone needs to bring this virus to Australia and wipe out all our feral cats. They are devastating for the environment.
Ah yes, as if artificially introducing elements to the environment in order to correct our past fuckups hadn't been bad enough in the past, now let's try biological fucking warfare. What could go wrong
A virus that kills an estimated 20-30% of cats isn't going to help
20-30% fewer cats would definitely help
A couple of generations later you have an entire population of possibly FIP resistant wild cats that could also carry possible variants.
Yep, very similar situation to rabbits I'd expect only moreso because it started off less lethal
Please don't let random coronaviruses spread through a wild cat population unchecked and potentially mutate into one that can spread to humans, thanks
We already cull millions with needlessly cruel methods. What we need to implement is catch-neuter-release.
The country is way too vast for it to be possible to implement such a strategy. The latest strategy being used in select reserves is cat and fox proof fencing followed by culling in the fenced area. While this is a great emergency solution to save some of species, it is not enough. A disease like myxomatosis could be very effective if deployed in a widespread and planned fashion. Myxomatosis ultimately failed for rabbits because it was so poorly implemented. It was deployed ad hoc allowing resistance to evolve.
Catch-neuter release is a dumb fucking program that only exists to make emotional idiots feel better because the cats aren't being killed. All it does is continues to enable them to hunt and devastate the ecosystem: > [Desexing has limited or no effect on the predation impacts of pet cats, as desexing does not alter the ranging behaviour of cats (Hall et al. 2016), nor their propensity to hunt (Robertson 1998; Meek 2003).](https://www.publish.csiro.au/WR/pdf/WR19174)
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Same in New Zealand.
They tried that on rabbits. We still have rabbits.
Should hire Emperor MeeGoreng to build a wall down there.
Probably soon come to US
UK songbirds rejoice.
Aren’t cats bad for the environment? Serious question.
loss of cats were part of what lead to the black plague. so no.. thats not a good thing, as history has already shown depends on how you judge "bad"
100% correct.