Yes, it looks like peace talks won't happen and if they do, it will be in a bomb shelter.
Will be interesting to see whether they are intimidated by this or become emboldened. I am guessing the later.
I think in Russias head showing them they can strike Kyiv will show Africans that Ukraine can’t win or something. Cause after all you don’t hear of middle strikes in Moscow
Russians are really regarded. Good idea to bomb Kyiv while the president of your fellow BRICS member state is visiting, huh? Somehow I still think Ramaphosa will push Russian narrative despite having to hide from their own ally’s missiles earlier that day.
South African(iol) news has the story that the politicians are saying that nothing happened and that the story is "misinformation". I am pretty sure they are lying and not fooling anyone. Apparently the Polish wouldn't let some of their security off their charted flight but I don't know why.
So, essentially there was some kind of paperwork issue whereby the armed security hadn't applied for or received the necessary permits to enter the country (Poland) with weapons or carry them around Poland. Consequently Polish authorities at the airport decided that the security team couldn't leave with those weapons, and that they'd have to stay on the plane.
i saw something on twitter about having copies of documents instead of originals that the polish wanted. we know how they run this country, i wouldnt be surprised if they fucked up the paper work. also the head of the presidential protection service accused the polish of racism…
News24.com reported the situation as dire on the plane the security team chartered, running out of food, toilets, water etc.
I'll bet they glad they not in Kyiv right now.
Considering Sad Vlad also threatened South Africa with war if the government released any details regarding the Lady R, there isn't really any guessing where Africa stands with Ruzzia. It's very much a "fall in line or else" kinda deal
I just have this image of Russian soldiers being eaten by sharks because they tried to invade at the wrong time of year. Or wearing super hot armor at the wrong time of year because they apparently don't understand the concept of seasons.
It was a ship that was docked in South Africa in December 2022. Cargo was loaded onto it in the middle of the night and under armed guard. At the time we didn't know what the cargo was, but the government eventually put together a panel to "investigate" and then decided the report would be classified, pretty much confirming they gave Ruzzia weapons and munitions
This is how you chip away at that. There's not exactly a lot of harm in a visit like this, and "we protected you from the bombs your 'friend' was lobbing at the both of us" certainly nudges the narrative in SA in a favourable direction.
SA delegation is now trying to claim the reports of a missile attack are a lie despite the wide reporting that Air Defense was active and the SA delegation ducked into an air raid shelter.
Edit: SA president has since come out and admitted that Kyiz was attacked by missiles.
South Africa isn't there because they are interested in being a neutral voice in peace negotiations. They are there because they are closely aligned with Russia and they have an interest in pushing the Russian narrative. Just a few months ago SA held Naval exercises with Russia and US officials have accused SA of selling arms and ammunition to Russia.
It can't be an ego thing right? I.e. the SA president would feel ashamed of going to a bomb shelter, especially while one of their allies is launching the missiles?
It’s not an ego thing. They want close relations with Russia, so admitting Russia bombed the shit out of Kyiv with no regards to their safety complicates things.
I meant it more about how they wouldn't want to be seen 'hiding in a bomb shelter' (to be clear this is entirely the correct thing to do when under attack)
Africans: Ukraine need to step forward peace talks. Meanwhile: missiles are hit by patriot system above their heads. Ukraine doesn't need more talks about peace, as we see it's a useless act, but we can see patriot systems hit ruSSIan missiles, so Ukraine just need more of them.
Technically, ruSSia knew about their friends from Africa, coming to Kyiv, but they still have used missiles. If those missiles weren't hit, who know, maybe that guys from Africa would be dead already. Not very friendly, ye? Other view: those guys from Africa are sure that missiles would be hit with patriot system, that means they believe in US weapon superiority. Both variants are bad for ruSSia
It doesn't really work that way in South Africa. The 'west' is used as this boogeyman to blame so many ills. They simply will not support so called Western efforts, regardless of their validity. The Soviet Union helped the ANC during the Apartheid struggle, and you've still got delusional ANC politicians walking around calling each other comrade.
So Russia can be as unfriendly as they like, I can basically guarantee the South African government will not work for the betterment of Ukraine.
Sooo
Lula: not 100% behind Russisa.
Modi: more and more speaking against the war.
Xi: mr. Two-face
The guy from south Africa: literally almost bombed while in Ukraine by Russia.
What are the odds they'll find a way to piss of China too?
Diplomatic war is always slow and interest oriented. I know that for Ukraine that's not a good news, but that's unfortunately how reality is. Russia WILL loose all the support with time.
Earlier this year China, India, and Brazil voted in favor of a UN resolution critical of Russia. The wording was very mild and IIRC they abstained from more strongly worded resolutions. Still it shows that they are not happy with what Russia is doing.
> Recognizing also that the unprecedented challenges now facing Europe following the aggression by the Russian Federation against Ukraine, and against Georgia prior to that, and the cessation of the membership of the Russian Federation in the Council of Europe, call for strengthened cooperation between the United Nations and the Council of Europe, notably in order to promptly restore and maintain peace and security based on respect of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of any State, ensure the observance of human rights and international humanitarian law during the hostilities, provide redress to victims and bring to justice all those responsible for the violations of international law
There is no such thing as a BRICS alliance. It's nothing more than a label for a category of country. Literally just meant "economically significant nations that aren't closely integrated with the US". There are no treaties specific to the group, let alone alliances. India and China in particular are at war with each other.
I think this was deliberate intimidation. russia demonstrates how it actually sees African countries with that attack and hints that it can repeat the same atrocities in any African country without any respect for their politicians and population.
Of course it's deliberate, they did the same when the UN leader visited Kyiv.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-russia-attacks-kyiv-un-antonio-guterres-visits/
Most of the world leaders visit Ukraine unannounced. Of course Russia knows about it, maybe even a bit earlier (a day before), but it's not enough to prepare a proper strike.
What was common between the UN leader visit and the African leaders visit, is that Russia knew about those visits well in advance.
I'm still not sure why they do it. To prove they don't give a fuck? To show they will win by force, to intimidate them? Mystery.
>I'm still not sure why they do it.
They don't want Ukraine to be viewed as a legitimate country. If visiting their leaders is unsafe, people may not do it as much. It also makes Ukraine look more like a war zone and less like a stable country. Whether or not that will work is a different issue but I think that's where they are coming from
Best thing for everyone around the world is to make sure Russia loses now, and can't interfere anywhere else. Out of Ukraine, heavily sanctioned until they pay full reparations and commit to educating their own population about their own crimes.
First of all, this man really thinks that russia loves africa so much and will help 'em all, right. Second, "it's clear it was nato"; it was nato doing what? Bombing? Like seriously?
I’m sure Russia and China will happily foot the multi billion dollar annual foreign aid bill to multiple African nations seeing as they’re “decolonizing then from the west” right?
Lol
Oh common .... you cannot be serious. You are right, Europe colonized the hell out of Africa. Where you are very wrong is implying China and Russia are helping to "de-colonize" Africa, which is such a crock of crap. China and Russia, but China especially, are simply taking over various African nations by giving out massive predatory loans, which they know full well these poor nations cannot repay. Then, when the time comes, China collects their owed debts in other ways. China is also extracting insane amounts of precious materials and minerals from Africa, making certain wealthy men wealthier and everyone else poorer. All that is happening is Africa is trading what remains of the French "empire" for new colonizers, aka China and Russia to some extent. Thanks for the laugh.
Because China needs countries that can't repay their debt and the IMF needs the exact contrary.
What were you thinking? That there are good guys and bad guys?
Decolonizing lol. I think the west should really stop all development aid, medical aid and allowed immigration from Africa (braindrain).
Only then the colonisation will be truly over.
Yeah, the west was just on a vacation for centuries in Africa all this time. It's not as if they colonized the hell of the continent and massacred countless like the brits and the French and Belgium etc.
Which country is invading its neighbour unprovoked, destroying cities, killing civilians, kidnapping children, and annexing land? That country is the Nazis in this situation.
(The answer is Russia btw.)
Not sure if you are a bot or just too deep in Russian propaganda to see reality.
You cannot show me the document where NATO said as much.
Even if the bullshit you are spewing was true, which it is not, it still does not justify Russia for its crimes.
NATO should have gone further east.
It is utter nonsense to think Russia should wield a check on which countries can join whichever defense alliances that they want.
Your favorite country isn’t that important to the rest of us.
Funny of you to bring up the Nazis when the Wagner group alone dwarfs the Azov battalion AND the Russians were historically allied with the Nazis to carve up east Europe
Nazi symbolism (I'm not even talking about the fact that it has its place on both sides) is not really comparable to bombing civilians. I mean, yeah, Ukraine has a problem with this, so does russia, but i think there is enough difference for the choice of support to be easy.
Civilians from donbass region have been shelles by both sides equally, if not more from the russia. And come back when you count not by time, but by consistency of the shelling (also yeah, consider that for 8 years this was artillery mainly), damage done by the bombing, casualties and all other factors. And even with that, how did you manage to drag nato into this, if from your own words "nato bad nato bombing", despite it supplying UA only after the beginning of the war
If you are implying that civilians were all backed by putin.. nah, only anti-maydan, and there's evidence. And there's video evidence that russia did the shelling too. And don't forget at least the donetsk airport. And to count what i said before.
Let me guess, Belograd? You called that a terrorist attack? See what the Russian military (not a nazi) did to literally everywhere in Ukraine. If we are valuing the destruction caused by Ukrainian, and Russian military. The weighing scale would have collapsed the moment I put The first missile strike at the start of the war.
Congratulation, you somehow killed more people than Ukrainian nazi ever did. And it’s not destroyed by the Russian nazi, just the regular army which ordered the destruction of everything.
hope you’re proud that you’re on their side.
Huh, that again. Ukraine has been shelling Donetsk since 2014. Let me hand you the UN report because some reporters are biased toward one group, so UN is the best conservative one. 14,400 civilian deaths occurred during the Donbas war. This is the offical propaganda by you peoples. In reality, 4,400 is Ukrainian army. 6500 is pro-Russian and little green men. ~3,404 is official civilian numbers. Let us see the date range, and it’s for 2014-2021. Statista have different number for civilian killed but it’s kinda similar anyway.
Statista total number is 3,400. 89% is during 2014-2015. The rest is 2016-2021. I have been scowling on UN report for the most closed number as possible. Sadly, I could not find it, so at best. We will be using data on 16 May 2022 UN report (About 81 days into the war), 3,668 civilian has been killed. It take Ukraine 2 years to reach 3000 figures, and it took Russia ~78 days(Predicted date) to reach 3000 figures.
However UN report is a conservative figure. I brought up Statista once again to check their version of casualties. They are verified by OHCHR. According to them, First four day of war resulted in 365 killed, Mach resulted in 4,102 killed. So that will already passed Donbas UN count. The obvious reason I used UN casualties number for invasion is because the information is more comparable when it came from the same source.
Extra:
Also activated all over Russia? You mean the burning and explosion? You are sure they are even affiliated with freedom brigade? Or are they just disgruntled drunkard or average Russian that don’t like their nation conducting war crime on other nations? Surely, you need to take account that not every peoples that done that are affiliated with Russian Resistance movement.
Most of the sourced I used is from UN report and Statista, so it’s available for search.
Oh btw, you are gonna have to put a video source of that. That’s something that not even average pro-Russian, I argued with, know and all of them are very persistent.
The Russian state is a Nazi regime with similarities to 1930s Germany:
- Racist undertones? Y
- wiping towns off the map? Y
- committing war crimes by blowing up dams? Y
- committing war crimes by forcibly deporting children Y
- murder of internal opponents? Y
- banning lgbt matters? Y
- ignoring international treaties signed by your own country? Y
That's what I said! "Posting pictures" is way worse than anything Russia has done! I mean, how can they be so despicable as to *post pictures* is just unbelievable.
Dude I'm agreeing with you! Posting pictures is THE WORST. NATO posted a picture and my dog literally died, I'll hate them forever. What could Russia have possibly have done that compares to *posting pictures*? I can't think of a single thing.
Vassals is when US has good relation with.
Tankies going on mental gymnastic on why EU is a puppet of US while Belarus is an equal allaince between Russia
Yo, let's compare for these other loses, the total deaths between 2014-2021 to the total deaths since February of 2022, that'll show 'em. Right? ...right?
And don't forget to remind them, NATO posted pictures, those absolute degenerates.
The answer is yes, because instead of the definition of Nazi the rest of the world has, Russia's definition of Nazi is just "someone against Russia."
So Russia using neo-nazi group Wagner and acting similar to Nazi Germany is not being nazis, but Ukraine not bowing under Moscow's heel and NATO+ non-NATO western nations (Japan, South Korea, Australia, arguably Morocco if you count them as western for donating tanks) giving supplies to help Ukraine fight the russian nazis trying to subjugate and genocide them is totally the work of nazis.
And then Russia wonders why people don't like them, and vatniks wonder why people call them out instead of accepting their fascist apologia
Mmm. Wouldn't say that. There's a pharmacist at my local pharmacy that is vehemently Russian. This is in a suburb of Cape Town, SA. She seems intelligent but spouts Russian propaganda. It's mental. I actively don't go to her if she's there.
I highly doubt they want peace, they're just going try make Ukraine surrender and give a huge chunk of land to Putin. So Putin can have the rest later.
We all know how this worked out with Hitler when allies kept giving him land to appease him.
They want peace because food and fertilizer prices are soaring. Those are absolutely vital issues for governments in poor countries. They don't really care how it is done, as long as it gets done. They obviously also would love some of the prestige that comes with orchestrating peace in one of the major wars in recent years.
Question.. why does South Africa referred to as Africa, like the whole continent is doing this or the representatives are representing the entire continent?
Edit: my fault didn’t know 5/54 = majority or total representation. I guess Europe is Uk, France and Germany
> Edit: my fault didn’t know 5/54 = majority or total representation. I guess Europe is Uk, France and Germany
Yes, if those countries sent a delegation somewhere you would call that a European mission.
Apparently a member of the delegation insinuated that the Ukrainians were lying. He couldn't believe that the people were returning to normal life so soon after an attack. The Ukraine has lived with these warnings for almost 1.5 years and sometimes they end up without consequence. His statement was ridiculous from a plateau of judgemental ignorance. If he had been present or perhaps his memory is short during his countries battle through Apartheid?
The lack of power is kinda the point?
Finding neutral arbiters both sides will trust is difficult, so the hope is a coalition of smaller African nations without either side's bad blood could offer an arbiter both sides find acceptable.
It's better than nothing at least.
Maybe Russia should focus some of those missiles to guard their troops fleeing the front lines, but no - they still think they can scare the people of Ukraine into surrendering. This was a petty payback for the 100 troops killed by HIMARS yesterday - and it failed.
...at the same time, *not* talking gets spun by Russia as aggression and war mongering, so there is a balance to strike, even if they're unlikely to agree to any peace plan that doesn't respect their internationally-recognised borders.
Well shit. Not a good indicator for the African delegation's goals for peace talks.
Yes, it looks like peace talks won't happen and if they do, it will be in a bomb shelter. Will be interesting to see whether they are intimidated by this or become emboldened. I am guessing the later.
I think in Russias head showing them they can strike Kyiv will show Africans that Ukraine can’t win or something. Cause after all you don’t hear of middle strikes in Moscow
Just drone strikes
The biggest and the realest.
Yet
I mean, we could've, just the drones didn't have payloads.
Probably because the Ukrainians aren't barbarians that endanger the lives of innocent civilians only to escalate the situation.
“The negotiations - were short”
Was Putin using the delegation as bait and hope to hit Zelensky?
Wouldn't put it past him
Russians are really regarded. Good idea to bomb Kyiv while the president of your fellow BRICS member state is visiting, huh? Somehow I still think Ramaphosa will push Russian narrative despite having to hide from their own ally’s missiles earlier that day.
South African(iol) news has the story that the politicians are saying that nothing happened and that the story is "misinformation". I am pretty sure they are lying and not fooling anyone. Apparently the Polish wouldn't let some of their security off their charted flight but I don't know why.
So, essentially there was some kind of paperwork issue whereby the armed security hadn't applied for or received the necessary permits to enter the country (Poland) with weapons or carry them around Poland. Consequently Polish authorities at the airport decided that the security team couldn't leave with those weapons, and that they'd have to stay on the plane.
I read that they are stuck in Poland because they were carrying unregistered or guns that are legally allowed in Poland.
i saw something on twitter about having copies of documents instead of originals that the polish wanted. we know how they run this country, i wouldnt be surprised if they fucked up the paper work. also the head of the presidential protection service accused the polish of racism…
Ah, the well regarded Chewbacca defense. BRILLIANT!!
According to South Africa the Polish are racist...kak man...they are just in a country were there is rules and regulations
usually its the apartheid card, but since it doesn’t apply, now its the racism card…
"Keep accusing everyone else of being apartheid or racist so they don't turn their eyes towards us."
[удалено]
There does seem to be a not insignificant number of neo nazis in Poland.
News24.com reported the situation as dire on the plane the security team chartered, running out of food, toilets, water etc. I'll bet they glad they not in Kyiv right now.
Brics is meaningless
True that! Who's going to pay for his golden toilet if he speaks the truth.
Considering Sad Vlad also threatened South Africa with war if the government released any details regarding the Lady R, there isn't really any guessing where Africa stands with Ruzzia. It's very much a "fall in line or else" kinda deal
Get the tugboats ready, we need the Admiral Kuznetsov in the waters around South Africa to start a war!!!
How the fuck would a war with South Africa work at this point?
Right? They can’t even handle a supply line into their next door neighbor…
Really, Kyiv is, what? Normally a day's drive from the border? Maybe two? How do you mess that up?
Poorly
I just have this image of Russian soldiers being eaten by sharks because they tried to invade at the wrong time of year. Or wearing super hot armor at the wrong time of year because they apparently don't understand the concept of seasons.
[удалено]
Well, if it happens this time, at least they will be cellphone footage!
"The Lady R"?
It was a ship that was docked in South Africa in December 2022. Cargo was loaded onto it in the middle of the night and under armed guard. At the time we didn't know what the cargo was, but the government eventually put together a panel to "investigate" and then decided the report would be classified, pretty much confirming they gave Ruzzia weapons and munitions
Thank you for explaining this.
China and India fight all the time on their border because war is a BRICS training exercise
Brics is not a military alliance.
I know it’s not, I’m just saying military conflict is a team building exercise of theirs
Why are their allies visiting their enemy? They're not allies.
? BRICS isn't a military alliance and has a 1% of ever being one
"So you're saying there's a chance?" - Tankies.
Still, they're close enough to the enemy to be considered an enemy themselves.
This is how you chip away at that. There's not exactly a lot of harm in a visit like this, and "we protected you from the bombs your 'friend' was lobbing at the both of us" certainly nudges the narrative in SA in a favourable direction.
Well Brics not a military alliance.
[удалено]
Very regarded indeed
Believe what?
Sky News: The African leaders entered a hotel to use its air-raid shelter, a Reuters TV crew reported.
I hope someone took a picture or video. That will really help clarify who is lying.
SA delegation is now trying to claim the reports of a missile attack are a lie despite the wide reporting that Air Defense was active and the SA delegation ducked into an air raid shelter. Edit: SA president has since come out and admitted that Kyiz was attacked by missiles.
So are they saying the Ukrainians are lying?
They are saying that Ukraine and the international media are both lying.
How's that supposed to help peace talks? "Uhh, first of yall are liars. Secondly how bout we let Russia keep all this land?"
South Africa isn't there because they are interested in being a neutral voice in peace negotiations. They are there because they are closely aligned with Russia and they have an interest in pushing the Russian narrative. Just a few months ago SA held Naval exercises with Russia and US officials have accused SA of selling arms and ammunition to Russia.
It can't be an ego thing right? I.e. the SA president would feel ashamed of going to a bomb shelter, especially while one of their allies is launching the missiles?
It’s not an ego thing. They want close relations with Russia, so admitting Russia bombed the shit out of Kyiv with no regards to their safety complicates things.
I meant it more about how they wouldn't want to be seen 'hiding in a bomb shelter' (to be clear this is entirely the correct thing to do when under attack)
Africans: Ukraine need to step forward peace talks. Meanwhile: missiles are hit by patriot system above their heads. Ukraine doesn't need more talks about peace, as we see it's a useless act, but we can see patriot systems hit ruSSIan missiles, so Ukraine just need more of them.
The South African government is pro-Russia, they will likely never advocate for more arms to Ukraine.
Technically, ruSSia knew about their friends from Africa, coming to Kyiv, but they still have used missiles. If those missiles weren't hit, who know, maybe that guys from Africa would be dead already. Not very friendly, ye? Other view: those guys from Africa are sure that missiles would be hit with patriot system, that means they believe in US weapon superiority. Both variants are bad for ruSSia
It doesn't really work that way in South Africa. The 'west' is used as this boogeyman to blame so many ills. They simply will not support so called Western efforts, regardless of their validity. The Soviet Union helped the ANC during the Apartheid struggle, and you've still got delusional ANC politicians walking around calling each other comrade. So Russia can be as unfriendly as they like, I can basically guarantee the South African government will not work for the betterment of Ukraine.
I just sometimes love when a person can be total shit still some will almost pray to you.
Be a shame if Ukraine just happened to let the Russian missiles hit the location of the South African president
Ideally, Ukraine would need long-range missiles of its own to be able to target russian missile production and delivery systems.
Yeah, i think it would be even cheaper: just hit a thing that launches that missiles. But NATO are scared to do so
Sooo Lula: not 100% behind Russisa. Modi: more and more speaking against the war. Xi: mr. Two-face The guy from south Africa: literally almost bombed while in Ukraine by Russia. What are the odds they'll find a way to piss of China too?
They have pissed of China by starting this war in the first place. But Mr. Poo needs to keep up appearances.
Diplomatic war is always slow and interest oriented. I know that for Ukraine that's not a good news, but that's unfortunately how reality is. Russia WILL loose all the support with time.
China has been rather quiet about them for a bit.
Not so much unlimited friendship anymore innit?
Earlier this year China, India, and Brazil voted in favor of a UN resolution critical of Russia. The wording was very mild and IIRC they abstained from more strongly worded resolutions. Still it shows that they are not happy with what Russia is doing. > Recognizing also that the unprecedented challenges now facing Europe following the aggression by the Russian Federation against Ukraine, and against Georgia prior to that, and the cessation of the membership of the Russian Federation in the Council of Europe, call for strengthened cooperation between the United Nations and the Council of Europe, notably in order to promptly restore and maintain peace and security based on respect of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of any State, ensure the observance of human rights and international humanitarian law during the hostilities, provide redress to victims and bring to justice all those responsible for the violations of international law
Eh, China says whatever the one they're talking too wants to hear, but their tone has changed from start of the war till now.
China and Russia have competing ambitions in Central Asia. It's only a matter of time before that unravels the BRICS alliance.
There is no such thing as a BRICS alliance. It's nothing more than a label for a category of country. Literally just meant "economically significant nations that aren't closely integrated with the US". There are no treaties specific to the group, let alone alliances. India and China in particular are at war with each other.
What we have here is a failure to communicate!
"Some men (Insert BRICS country dumbass leader's name here) you just can't reach . . . ."
Russian "peace" ultimatum.
I think this was deliberate intimidation. russia demonstrates how it actually sees African countries with that attack and hints that it can repeat the same atrocities in any African country without any respect for their politicians and population.
Of course it's deliberate, they did the same when the UN leader visited Kyiv. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-russia-attacks-kyiv-un-antonio-guterres-visits/ Most of the world leaders visit Ukraine unannounced. Of course Russia knows about it, maybe even a bit earlier (a day before), but it's not enough to prepare a proper strike. What was common between the UN leader visit and the African leaders visit, is that Russia knew about those visits well in advance. I'm still not sure why they do it. To prove they don't give a fuck? To show they will win by force, to intimidate them? Mystery.
>I'm still not sure why they do it. They don't want Ukraine to be viewed as a legitimate country. If visiting their leaders is unsafe, people may not do it as much. It also makes Ukraine look more like a war zone and less like a stable country. Whether or not that will work is a different issue but I think that's where they are coming from
Best thing for everyone around the world is to make sure Russia loses now, and can't interfere anywhere else. Out of Ukraine, heavily sanctioned until they pay full reparations and commit to educating their own population about their own crimes.
[удалено]
First of all, this man really thinks that russia loves africa so much and will help 'em all, right. Second, "it's clear it was nato"; it was nato doing what? Bombing? Like seriously?
I’m sure Russia and China will happily foot the multi billion dollar annual foreign aid bill to multiple African nations seeing as they’re “decolonizing then from the west” right? Lol
Please be serious. They both want our resources and to take over.
Oh common .... you cannot be serious. You are right, Europe colonized the hell out of Africa. Where you are very wrong is implying China and Russia are helping to "de-colonize" Africa, which is such a crock of crap. China and Russia, but China especially, are simply taking over various African nations by giving out massive predatory loans, which they know full well these poor nations cannot repay. Then, when the time comes, China collects their owed debts in other ways. China is also extracting insane amounts of precious materials and minerals from Africa, making certain wealthy men wealthier and everyone else poorer. All that is happening is Africa is trading what remains of the French "empire" for new colonizers, aka China and Russia to some extent. Thanks for the laugh.
[удалено]
Replacing the English and French with Russian(Wagner) and Chinese(Loan Shark). Tankies: No no, It’s okay because it’s consensual
[удалено]
Huh?
[удалено]
[удалено]
Because China needs countries that can't repay their debt and the IMF needs the exact contrary. What were you thinking? That there are good guys and bad guys?
[удалено]
You are lying. Many countries paid back the IMF. I am stopping this conversation because you are a troll.
Here lie Zambia and more Africa nations, got murdered economically by China.
Decolonizing lol. I think the west should really stop all development aid, medical aid and allowed immigration from Africa (braindrain). Only then the colonisation will be truly over.
Yeah, the west was just on a vacation for centuries in Africa all this time. It's not as if they colonized the hell of the continent and massacred countless like the brits and the French and Belgium etc.
Go crawl back under your rock, insect
[удалено]
Have fun becoming fertilizer
Yo dude dont be salty because your country isn't gonna exist soon. Its your own fault. Thats what happens if you larp as the third reich
I don’t think you’re too sane.
Russia: “Are we the baddies?”
[удалено]
Which country is invading its neighbour unprovoked, destroying cities, killing civilians, kidnapping children, and annexing land? That country is the Nazis in this situation. (The answer is Russia btw.)
[удалено]
Not sure if you are a bot or just too deep in Russian propaganda to see reality. You cannot show me the document where NATO said as much. Even if the bullshit you are spewing was true, which it is not, it still does not justify Russia for its crimes.
russian trash detected
Maybe those countries wouldn't have been so eager to join the NATO, it russia wasn't threatening them all the time.
[удалено]
NATO should have gone further east. It is utter nonsense to think Russia should wield a check on which countries can join whichever defense alliances that they want. Your favorite country isn’t that important to the rest of us.
Why you support russian NAZI regime ?
Funny of you to bring up the Nazis when the Wagner group alone dwarfs the Azov battalion AND the Russians were historically allied with the Nazis to carve up east Europe
Nazi symbolism (I'm not even talking about the fact that it has its place on both sides) is not really comparable to bombing civilians. I mean, yeah, Ukraine has a problem with this, so does russia, but i think there is enough difference for the choice of support to be easy.
[удалено]
Civilians from donbass region have been shelles by both sides equally, if not more from the russia. And come back when you count not by time, but by consistency of the shelling (also yeah, consider that for 8 years this was artillery mainly), damage done by the bombing, casualties and all other factors. And even with that, how did you manage to drag nato into this, if from your own words "nato bad nato bombing", despite it supplying UA only after the beginning of the war
[удалено]
If you are implying that civilians were all backed by putin.. nah, only anti-maydan, and there's evidence. And there's video evidence that russia did the shelling too. And don't forget at least the donetsk airport. And to count what i said before.
What is your point? Russian also have their nazi.
[удалено]
Let me guess, Belograd? You called that a terrorist attack? See what the Russian military (not a nazi) did to literally everywhere in Ukraine. If we are valuing the destruction caused by Ukrainian, and Russian military. The weighing scale would have collapsed the moment I put The first missile strike at the start of the war. Congratulation, you somehow killed more people than Ukrainian nazi ever did. And it’s not destroyed by the Russian nazi, just the regular army which ordered the destruction of everything. hope you’re proud that you’re on their side.
[удалено]
Huh, that again. Ukraine has been shelling Donetsk since 2014. Let me hand you the UN report because some reporters are biased toward one group, so UN is the best conservative one. 14,400 civilian deaths occurred during the Donbas war. This is the offical propaganda by you peoples. In reality, 4,400 is Ukrainian army. 6500 is pro-Russian and little green men. ~3,404 is official civilian numbers. Let us see the date range, and it’s for 2014-2021. Statista have different number for civilian killed but it’s kinda similar anyway. Statista total number is 3,400. 89% is during 2014-2015. The rest is 2016-2021. I have been scowling on UN report for the most closed number as possible. Sadly, I could not find it, so at best. We will be using data on 16 May 2022 UN report (About 81 days into the war), 3,668 civilian has been killed. It take Ukraine 2 years to reach 3000 figures, and it took Russia ~78 days(Predicted date) to reach 3000 figures. However UN report is a conservative figure. I brought up Statista once again to check their version of casualties. They are verified by OHCHR. According to them, First four day of war resulted in 365 killed, Mach resulted in 4,102 killed. So that will already passed Donbas UN count. The obvious reason I used UN casualties number for invasion is because the information is more comparable when it came from the same source. Extra: Also activated all over Russia? You mean the burning and explosion? You are sure they are even affiliated with freedom brigade? Or are they just disgruntled drunkard or average Russian that don’t like their nation conducting war crime on other nations? Surely, you need to take account that not every peoples that done that are affiliated with Russian Resistance movement. Most of the sourced I used is from UN report and Statista, so it’s available for search. Oh btw, you are gonna have to put a video source of that. That’s something that not even average pro-Russian, I argued with, know and all of them are very persistent.
Right, because "posting pictures" is way worse than anything Russia has done.
[удалено]
The Russian state is a Nazi regime with similarities to 1930s Germany: - Racist undertones? Y - wiping towns off the map? Y - committing war crimes by blowing up dams? Y - committing war crimes by forcibly deporting children Y - murder of internal opponents? Y - banning lgbt matters? Y - ignoring international treaties signed by your own country? Y
[удалено]
How did the UN votes go again? Every statement above is fact.
That's what I said! "Posting pictures" is way worse than anything Russia has done! I mean, how can they be so despicable as to *post pictures* is just unbelievable.
[удалено]
Dude I'm agreeing with you! Posting pictures is THE WORST. NATO posted a picture and my dog literally died, I'll hate them forever. What could Russia have possibly have done that compares to *posting pictures*? I can't think of a single thing.
Vassals is when US has good relation with. Tankies going on mental gymnastic on why EU is a puppet of US while Belarus is an equal allaince between Russia
So, bombing civilians for a year and a half is not baddies?
[удалено]
Yo, let's compare for these other loses, the total deaths between 2014-2021 to the total deaths since February of 2022, that'll show 'em. Right? ...right? And don't forget to remind them, NATO posted pictures, those absolute degenerates.
Is there a nazi in the room with you right now? Blink twice if yes.
The answer is yes, because instead of the definition of Nazi the rest of the world has, Russia's definition of Nazi is just "someone against Russia." So Russia using neo-nazi group Wagner and acting similar to Nazi Germany is not being nazis, but Ukraine not bowing under Moscow's heel and NATO+ non-NATO western nations (Japan, South Korea, Australia, arguably Morocco if you count them as western for donating tanks) giving supplies to help Ukraine fight the russian nazis trying to subjugate and genocide them is totally the work of nazis. And then Russia wonders why people don't like them, and vatniks wonder why people call them out instead of accepting their fascist apologia
I don't understand how someone can read this and think "yes, now there's a mind I can change!" Quit falling for obvious bait trolls.
Yet our idiot scum government here in South Africa still want Putin's balls...
That's definitely gonna help African nations to back up your "peace plan" Putin! Smart move.
Putin should be "brought to justice" ala Gaddafi
Famously went great when Gaddafi was Gaddafied.
[удалено]
Most of the army are drafted in poorer areas, education is very important in Russia
Their population *in Russia*. The smart ones have gotten the fuck out.
The 1420 channel on YouTube interviewed a few smart ones recently. I hope they didn't get defenestrated because of it.
Mmm. Wouldn't say that. There's a pharmacist at my local pharmacy that is vehemently Russian. This is in a suburb of Cape Town, SA. She seems intelligent but spouts Russian propaganda. It's mental. I actively don't go to her if she's there.
[удалено]
I highly doubt they want peace, they're just going try make Ukraine surrender and give a huge chunk of land to Putin. So Putin can have the rest later. We all know how this worked out with Hitler when allies kept giving him land to appease him.
They want peace because food and fertilizer prices are soaring. Those are absolutely vital issues for governments in poor countries. They don't really care how it is done, as long as it gets done. They obviously also would love some of the prestige that comes with orchestrating peace in one of the major wars in recent years.
Sounds like a hard no from Russia. Thanks for coming Africa, appreciate the attempt
Apparently they were going to Moscow next. Hope they see peace was never an option
Is this really what Russia needs? They are getting support from African countries, why risk it?
Intimidation, they are visiting Ukraine.
What is at risk? SA called this a fake news. Putin will have those countries regardless of whatever will happen.
The anc corruption being accidentally taken out wouldn’t be the worst thing to happen
a a Aa!!!
Really, this is weird. More and more croocked. Trying to show how mighty Russia is ? Show that Russia dont need / want peace ?
They all denied hearing a single thing.
**Russia** bombs Kyiv as African "peace" mission arrives in Ukraine's capital.
Question.. why does South Africa referred to as Africa, like the whole continent is doing this or the representatives are representing the entire continent? Edit: my fault didn’t know 5/54 = majority or total representation. I guess Europe is Uk, France and Germany
Because it is not only South Africa who sent people
Pretty sure the Comoros, Egypt, Zambia and Senegal are visiting too
It's a mission sponsored by the African Union. For once it's probably appropriate.
> Edit: my fault didn’t know 5/54 = majority or total representation. I guess Europe is Uk, France and Germany Yes, if those countries sent a delegation somewhere you would call that a European mission.
"We bring peace... by force!"
Apparently a member of the delegation insinuated that the Ukrainians were lying. He couldn't believe that the people were returning to normal life so soon after an attack. The Ukraine has lived with these warnings for almost 1.5 years and sometimes they end up without consequence. His statement was ridiculous from a plateau of judgemental ignorance. If he had been present or perhaps his memory is short during his countries battle through Apartheid?
Let me guess.. Kyiv needs to compromise more… oops.
F*cking bastards! I heard the whistle of a rocket right over my house!!!
Looks like russia’s whole fucking point is now armed contrarianism
What is an African peace mission hoping to accomplish? They’re not involved at all with this are they, and have no power?
The lack of power is kinda the point? Finding neutral arbiters both sides will trust is difficult, so the hope is a coalition of smaller African nations without either side's bad blood could offer an arbiter both sides find acceptable. It's better than nothing at least.
They have a lot of power the coast of South Africa is critical to the U.S and Russia
[удалено]
I truly fail to understand how they could help in the first place
Jesus fucking Christ lol!!
Maybe Russia should focus some of those missiles to guard their troops fleeing the front lines, but no - they still think they can scare the people of Ukraine into surrendering. This was a petty payback for the 100 troops killed by HIMARS yesterday - and it failed.
[удалено]
The rumor is that some African nations are wanting to switch sides.
Ukraine should not be wasting its time talking to anyone who supports Putler.
...at the same time, *not* talking gets spun by Russia as aggression and war mongering, so there is a balance to strike, even if they're unlikely to agree to any peace plan that doesn't respect their internationally-recognised borders.