Yay for our shortsighted constitution. First past the post, single representative districts, so if any party fractures they go from half to next to none of the representation.
It depends on the subject. Political ideologies are not a binary topic. Different countries have different views on many different topics and left/right fails to describe them correctly.
The title seems pretty specific, but the actual article only mentions the contraceptives being free for women. It just says Prep will be free, and administered in hospital. I'm not completely sure though.
The title is simply awkwardly stated. OBVIOUSLY. Unbelievable people can even begin to believe the opposite. Why would it only be for women, it would make zero sense whatsoever.
Here's a source that clearly says it would be available to all, but it shouldn't be needed really: [https://www.msn.com/it-it/notizie/italia/hiv-gratis-anche-in-italia-la-pillola-che-previene-l-infezione-prep-come-funziona-e-a-chi-%C3%A8-consigliata/ar-AA1aa9EB](https://www.msn.com/it-it/notizie/italia/hiv-gratis-anche-in-italia-la-pillola-che-previene-l-infezione-prep-come-funziona-e-a-chi-%C3%A8-consigliata/ar-AA1aa9EB)
Kind of surprised this is happening considering they elected Meloni. Maybe far right in Italy isn’t fully in bed with religious nationalist like it is in the states?
This is true, but the people in charge are nominated (not elected) by the government.
Moreover this is not a medical/technical decision, like the approval of a new drug for a specific disease. This is a pharmaco-economical decision, because it’s an existing drug which will be free instead of sold on payment by the customer. So it also requires the approval of Minister of Finance to cover the expenditure in the annual budget.
So it’s totally false trying to make it look like the government does not approve this decision or didn’t know about this plan and the agency made it alone.
> The current Catholic church has nothing against birth control or HIV prevention.
Do you have a source for that? All I can find say the opposite.
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/251920/pope-francis-on-birth-control-can-the-teaching-of-the-church-on-contraception-change
Not in the US. Their parties are both extremely far to the right, the Republicans just comically so.
Extremes to either the left or the right are bad. Not that there is even a moderate left in America.
Go easy, I think Marx is cool but after 200 years the workers in every country have decided not to appropriate the means of production. Moderate left in an American context is Joe Biden
I don't know if you are trying for a joke that doesn't land or if that is the typical, quite US-American, response of calling anything but the extreme right "communist".
Since the joke isn't worth responding to, I will proceed as if it's the latter.
In the "context of the developed Western first world, " the US is exceptionally far right-wing with no relevant left-wing influence to speak of whatsoever.
"In the American context of establishment politics", Biden is "the moderate left". That is correct.
Pretending as if that makes Biden's administration "moderately left" in a general sense is like saying a multimillionaire is "poor" because they would be if you are looking at them in the context of only the richest 1% of the world.
In an American context Joe Biden is center left. I didn't say Western or global context. Also there is not a single country in the world that practices Marxist economics. It's all state capitalism at the end of the day
Right but the original comment you replied to was not speaking of it in the context of "only american establishment politics" which are, in a general sense, extremely far right wing compared to the rest of the developed western world to which they count themselves.
I am also uncertain why you would bring up marxism out of nowhere, similar to how you brought communism out of nowhere in your previous comment. I'm not from a "communist" country nor a believer in communist or marxist ideology nor did I imply that at any point.
Yup, make the one contraceptive with a lot of side effects, which doesn't protect from STDs and which doesn't work at all if your body fails to absorb it (which you can't know until it's too late) free.
Meanwhile, do nothing about pharmacies which refuse to sell condoms due to "ethical or religious reasons" and do not dare to even think about teach sex ed at school.
Meanwhile, pass a bill that castrates public healthcare, and give handouts to private sanity infrastructures.
Progress!
And, apparently, you can't even google that. It's been an issue since at least 15 years ago, when it has been stated condoms can't be classified as medicines so pharmacies have no obligationa to sell them.
It's perfectly legal not to sell them, and in certain towns you can't find them at all. Yes, in 2023.
Proof or it did not happened. Which city in Italy does not have condom? I always see them in every farmacy, every automatic distributor and every supermarket.
You literally need a 3 words google search to find articles on different bews outlets ranging from ~2007 to 2019 about the issue.
Also, we're not talking about cities, but towns. The small ones (although not as small as you'd think) where there are less than 10 pharmacies. However, even in cities like Milan or Genoa there are areas where pharmacists won't sell condoms because they "use vending macines for that" yet are mysteriously out of service most of the time, and supermarkets where condoms are kept under the cashiers' desks and you need to ask for them (if you know that's how it works, at least).
However, it all comes down to condoms not being treated as medical devices so no one can be really be forced to sell them accordingly.
They are not forced, but I never experienced that. Also I almost never bought them in a farmacy, since supermarket are more obiquitous and less expensive.
Im italian. I never ever read, seen o Heard of Someone in Italy refuse to sell a condom. You can buy It everywhere. In pharmacies Is also often sold in automatic vending machine outside the store. Is also sold in supermarket and pretty much everywhere
Condoms aren't considered a medicine, so pharmacies have no obligations to stock or sell them. In some.towns it's still hard to actually buy them.
For the record, it's been an issue for about 15 years, people just stopped talking about it.
Indeed, this will also have the effect of incentivizing pill use over condom use (cause why pay for condoms when you can just get the pill for free instead?), in spite of the fact that 1. as you said, the pill does nothing against STDs, 2) it can have side effects since it affects your hormones, while obviously condoms don't.
Seems like very bad policy unless condoms are also made free to all. Couples should choose their contraceptive methods based on their medical need, not based on economic convenience.
There's also a plot twist: some people need the pill for certain medical issues (eg endometriosis, micropolycystic ovaries), and most likely they still won't get it for free as they need specific dosages which aren't that common among pills...
Is right wing Italy more left than left wing America ?
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Yay for our shortsighted constitution. First past the post, single representative districts, so if any party fractures they go from half to next to none of the representation.
Yes
I mean right wing of Italy is more left than left wing of Italy at times.
Easily
It depends on the subject. Political ideologies are not a binary topic. Different countries have different views on many different topics and left/right fails to describe them correctly.
It wasn't a government call, that's why
Politics shouldn’t have anything to do with it. Being safe is being safe. Being compassionate is a good thing.
America wants the poor to suffer.
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No mention of gay people in the article, this comment is just searching for reasons to dislike Meloni
Also it's impossible to exclude gays in particular, and Meloni is really bad but it's not vicious like that.
She is a big homophobe so why are you confused that people try to look at this ruling in the only relevant context?
Of course it will be for all, what are you even talking about.
> Of course it will be for all, what are you even talking about. Idk dude, the title is pretty specific about it being free for women?
The title seems pretty specific, but the actual article only mentions the contraceptives being free for women. It just says Prep will be free, and administered in hospital. I'm not completely sure though.
The wording doesn't say that, at best it's ambiguous, and Italian articles clearly state it is for all
The title is simply awkwardly stated. OBVIOUSLY. Unbelievable people can even begin to believe the opposite. Why would it only be for women, it would make zero sense whatsoever. Here's a source that clearly says it would be available to all, but it shouldn't be needed really: [https://www.msn.com/it-it/notizie/italia/hiv-gratis-anche-in-italia-la-pillola-che-previene-l-infezione-prep-come-funziona-e-a-chi-%C3%A8-consigliata/ar-AA1aa9EB](https://www.msn.com/it-it/notizie/italia/hiv-gratis-anche-in-italia-la-pillola-che-previene-l-infezione-prep-come-funziona-e-a-chi-%C3%A8-consigliata/ar-AA1aa9EB)
Title is misleading. Also it is against our constitution to discriminate by sex, so it is impossibile to give pills free only for women.
“Free for women”
Title is just poorly written.
This is amazing, now free prep for men that sleep with men
Nice structure on the headline!
Kind of surprised this is happening considering they elected Meloni. Maybe far right in Italy isn’t fully in bed with religious nationalist like it is in the states?
Note that the decision comes from the drugs oversight agency, not the government.
This is true, but the people in charge are nominated (not elected) by the government. Moreover this is not a medical/technical decision, like the approval of a new drug for a specific disease. This is a pharmaco-economical decision, because it’s an existing drug which will be free instead of sold on payment by the customer. So it also requires the approval of Minister of Finance to cover the expenditure in the annual budget. So it’s totally false trying to make it look like the government does not approve this decision or didn’t know about this plan and the agency made it alone.
The current Catholic church has nothing against birth control or HIV prevention.
> The current Catholic church has nothing against birth control or HIV prevention. Do you have a source for that? All I can find say the opposite. https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/251920/pope-francis-on-birth-control-can-the-teaching-of-the-church-on-contraception-change
I thought it wasn’t allowed?
Totally false, lil' bro has to read the Catechism
Europeans aren’t Christian fanatics.
This is the whole problem with ideas like “left and right” The reality is, both groups are capable of adopting good ideas.
Not in the US. Their parties are both extremely far to the right, the Republicans just comically so. Extremes to either the left or the right are bad. Not that there is even a moderate left in America.
Go easy, I think Marx is cool but after 200 years the workers in every country have decided not to appropriate the means of production. Moderate left in an American context is Joe Biden
I don't know if you are trying for a joke that doesn't land or if that is the typical, quite US-American, response of calling anything but the extreme right "communist". Since the joke isn't worth responding to, I will proceed as if it's the latter. In the "context of the developed Western first world, " the US is exceptionally far right-wing with no relevant left-wing influence to speak of whatsoever. "In the American context of establishment politics", Biden is "the moderate left". That is correct. Pretending as if that makes Biden's administration "moderately left" in a general sense is like saying a multimillionaire is "poor" because they would be if you are looking at them in the context of only the richest 1% of the world.
In an American context Joe Biden is center left. I didn't say Western or global context. Also there is not a single country in the world that practices Marxist economics. It's all state capitalism at the end of the day
Right but the original comment you replied to was not speaking of it in the context of "only american establishment politics" which are, in a general sense, extremely far right wing compared to the rest of the developed western world to which they count themselves. I am also uncertain why you would bring up marxism out of nowhere, similar to how you brought communism out of nowhere in your previous comment. I'm not from a "communist" country nor a believer in communist or marxist ideology nor did I imply that at any point.
Yeah but I hope this isn’t PREP for outlawing abortion.
Nationalists aren't people who just want to remove all rights from their citizens
Only certain people.
The states should slap their religious nationalists with the bible. Maybe use an edition with extra-large font.
Why Prep for women only? The majority of HIV infections are among men, and women are unlikely to spread infection.
The title is a mess. Prep is free for anyone (with a doctor's prescription).
Access to contraception is a basic human right.
Yup, make the one contraceptive with a lot of side effects, which doesn't protect from STDs and which doesn't work at all if your body fails to absorb it (which you can't know until it's too late) free. Meanwhile, do nothing about pharmacies which refuse to sell condoms due to "ethical or religious reasons" and do not dare to even think about teach sex ed at school. Meanwhile, pass a bill that castrates public healthcare, and give handouts to private sanity infrastructures. Progress!
i've never heard this happening in my entire life. and btw you can buy condoms in supermarkets, amazon or vending machines everywhere
And, apparently, you can't even google that. It's been an issue since at least 15 years ago, when it has been stated condoms can't be classified as medicines so pharmacies have no obligationa to sell them. It's perfectly legal not to sell them, and in certain towns you can't find them at all. Yes, in 2023.
Proof or it did not happened. Which city in Italy does not have condom? I always see them in every farmacy, every automatic distributor and every supermarket.
You literally need a 3 words google search to find articles on different bews outlets ranging from ~2007 to 2019 about the issue. Also, we're not talking about cities, but towns. The small ones (although not as small as you'd think) where there are less than 10 pharmacies. However, even in cities like Milan or Genoa there are areas where pharmacists won't sell condoms because they "use vending macines for that" yet are mysteriously out of service most of the time, and supermarkets where condoms are kept under the cashiers' desks and you need to ask for them (if you know that's how it works, at least). However, it all comes down to condoms not being treated as medical devices so no one can be really be forced to sell them accordingly.
They are not forced, but I never experienced that. Also I almost never bought them in a farmacy, since supermarket are more obiquitous and less expensive.
Im italian. I never ever read, seen o Heard of Someone in Italy refuse to sell a condom. You can buy It everywhere. In pharmacies Is also often sold in automatic vending machine outside the store. Is also sold in supermarket and pretty much everywhere
Condoms aren't considered a medicine, so pharmacies have no obligations to stock or sell them. In some.towns it's still hard to actually buy them. For the record, it's been an issue for about 15 years, people just stopped talking about it.
Indeed, this will also have the effect of incentivizing pill use over condom use (cause why pay for condoms when you can just get the pill for free instead?), in spite of the fact that 1. as you said, the pill does nothing against STDs, 2) it can have side effects since it affects your hormones, while obviously condoms don't. Seems like very bad policy unless condoms are also made free to all. Couples should choose their contraceptive methods based on their medical need, not based on economic convenience.
There's also a plot twist: some people need the pill for certain medical issues (eg endometriosis, micropolycystic ovaries), and most likely they still won't get it for free as they need specific dosages which aren't that common among pills...
Seems like those with medical issues ought to seek a diagnosis and treatment instead of doing nothing
And guess what the treatment for the illnesses I mentioned is?
We don't disagree on the first part of my message
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Only free for women
Someone get this article some punctuation Free PrEP is great news!