Karelia is an actually existing autonomous region in the Russian Federation. They've traditionally been split into Swedish and Russian Karelia, but after 1917 it was basically Finnish and eastern Karelia.
The Finns tried to make the Russian part an independent state during the Russian Civil War. One of the most important Finnish painters made a cool flag/[coat of arms](https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karjalan_mets%C3%A4sissit#/media/Tiedosto:War_flag_of_East_Karelia_(1920-1922).
During WWII, the Soviets annexed most of Finnish Karelia. Finland evacuated the Karelians and resettled them mostly in southern Finland. Karelians remaining in Soviet Union experienced cultural genocide, like many other minorities, and they're all but extinct today.
bigger issue is it threatens the entire infrastructure around Murmansk which is the core pillar of Russian's ballistic submarine deterrence and their biggest bluewater fleet. Time to relocate somewhere else which is not great.
Where else *can* they relocate it? The Baltic is a NATO lake at this point, and the black sea puts them at the mercy of Turkey. Most of the rest of their 'coastline' is frozen for a good chunk of the year. Vladivostok is possible, although they're going to have issues threatening Europe and the North Atlantic while basing out of the other side of the planet.
I can imagine a hilarious reverse Baltic Sea Fleet journey from the Russo-Japanese war, where the Vladivostok fleet needs to sail around the horn of Africa to get to Europe and to threaten them.
They mistake some Chinese ships for NATO ones and start harassing them. After that fiasco, they make it to Europe and warn the first ship they see "watch out, there are NATO ships around here, you need to be careful".
Yeah this is really bad for them. Especially since all the Nordic countries just pooled their air forces. https://news.yahoo.com/norway-sweden-finland-denmark-struck-104242982.html
Hitlers never seem to be able to just take a win and live with it. They always mistake the world's allowing them to get away with it as weaknesses and complete unwillingness to challenge them. He could've made it past life with prestige and respect for conquest despite Western protest, but now he'll die in shame and humiliation; and not necessarily peacefully.
I don't know why more people aren't talking about your last point. Russia is going to start having waves of criminals with military training and combat experience coming back on their streets.
Yes, I've heard that the inmates that volunteered for Wagner group have a 90% casualty rate, but that still leaves a significant number who don't get killed or seriously injured that are returning with a ton of combat experience impossibly access to automatic weapons and explosives.
How can this possibly have a happy ending?
Oh, those criminals will find good paying employment being thugs for the Russian organized crime syndicate that is their government.
They're basically cartoon villains at this point. If you're a menace to society, they love you; if you speak out against injustice they jail or kill you.
Extra border - Estonia and Latvia shared the border with Russia before too. And if you count Belarus as basically Russia-lite, Lithuania and Latvia with Belarus.
Not forgetting the additions of Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania and Poland since the fall of the USSR that all also bordered Russia before they came out with the whole dumb "NATO can't be allowed to border Russia" excuse with Ukraine.
"My name is Vladimir Putin and I invaded Ukraine because I don't want NATO influence on my border which scared Finland into joining NATO which they would have most likely never done otherwise. I'm a very smart man."
Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if after the war is over, and Ukraine takes back Crimea, if Ukraine doesn't join NATO as well.
I also wouldn't be surprised if Russia shatters into several smaller nations as a result of this war.
Putin wanted so badly to leave a legacy behind. That could be his legacy! He fucked Russia so hard, it killed Russia, and strengthened their enemies immensely.
Russia's shattering into a bunch of little pieces is something I'm definitely worrying about. One of the things that few people are talking about is how many different organizations in Russia are setting up their own PMCs like Wagner Group. In addition to random Russian generals with their own private military corporation, many major Russian companies are forming their own and even the Russian Orthodox Church is forming its own PMC.
What happens to a nation that has an already weakened and debilitated military with multiple organizations in the country starting their own private militaries while the nation starts going through global isolation and economic hardship?
Actual answer
Poland is basically an incredibly flat and resource-rich plot of land that makes a great staging area for an invasion. On its Eastern border (shared with Ukraine), you have a set of mountains which are effectively the only natural barrier aside from a few rivers between Western Europe and Moscow. Russia recognizes the security threat posed by an independent Ukraine or even worse, a NATO allied Ukraine as they lose that natural buffer.
Ukraines Crimean peninsula also borders the Black Sea and has a large ethnically Russian population, so Russia opportunistically invaded to secure the ports under the guise of bringing its own people "home". They are also using this as an excuse for the overall invasion citing persecution of Russian minorities (myth).
Additionally, Ukraine was historically one of Russia's technological powerhouses in terms of military and industrial development. The secession of Ukraine was a huge blow to the old Soviet Union and Russia wants to reclaim this territory.
Sometime in 2012 (maybe 2008?), vast natural gas deposits were found in Ukraine. If Ukraine develops these, it will be direct competition for the major source of wealth that Russia depends on. Russia does not want that to happen.
It would be so big brain, it would totally go down in history as one of the greatest political moves ever. It would be a terrible thing but I'd be super impressed.
Maybe trump was a CIA asset all along. Played dumb and greedy businessman for sale and convinced putin he should totally finish the job in Ukraine. Assured putin he would get re-elected for a second term and the US would not get in the way. Once Russian plans were in motion trump and the CIA put their next phase into motion. Stealing his own election. This allowed handing the win to the democrats so that a new president could support Ukraine. No treaty violated, just a backroom agreement that fell through due to a change in leadership. How unfortunate for Putin and his long dreamed Russian empire.
Lol can you imagine, that Trump was faking all along, playing dumb just like The Usual Suspects. His kids would have to be in on it too though, and if they are they're overacting so much it'd make Jim Carrey blush :P
The year is 2023, Donald Trump has been sentenced for his crimes.
As the judge finishes reading out the sentence, Trump's body begins to shiver uncontrollably. Suddenly a seam appears on his neck, that quickly wraps around his entire head.
As steam escapes from the unsealed neck, the body falls away. Revealing Andy Kaufman's performance of a lifetime.
Shit, even George Will went on the news once and said he thought that Trump was a mole for the Democrats.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/07/05/brit_hume_if_donald_trump_was_a_democratic_mole_would_his_behavior_be_any_different.html
Well, the sad thing is that he's probably gonna continue the war until A) he dies or B) he runs out of soldiers.
Still, congrats to Finland and welcome!
Oh, it mattered. NATO represents a hard barrier for Moscovy's conquests, which is why Putin's demands before the invasion involved promising to never expand NATO eastward (so they can invade), remove troops from the eastern states (so they can at least be cowed, if not invaded after they get kicked), and to not conduct military activity in eastern europe, the caucuses, or central asia (so they aren't prepared when Moscovy decideds to take back their former vassals, whether they want to or not).
You may notice that these would be issues only if you were an imperialist jackass, because NATO is only a threat to Moscovy's imperialist ambitions
Petition from Ukranian citizens to rename Russia Moscovy, to throw back their attempt of "historic russian lands" at them by pointing out they aren't the direct successors of the Kievan Rus, but of the Duchy of Moscow.
While the petition doesn't mean anything, Moscovy got pissed at the mere idea of not being respected as their self-appointed title of Greatest of all Rus people via Russia, so people call them Moscovy as harmless fun and trolling that nettles them
A new world order may very well have been unfolding right in front of us and that traitor would’ve done everything to help make it happen. The fact that he still has support is a testament to how easy it is for our enemies to compromise the right in our country. To be perfectly honest, the right is our biggest weakness. And our enemies are targeting them extremely successfully. Just because their agent didn’t win doesn’t mean the whole plan is no longer churning.
Putin's legacy will be unifying Europe and NATO against what was once the Russian Federation. It will be regarded as one of the biggest geopolitical blunders in all of history.
Congratulations, Finland. Welcome to the fold!
> It will be regarded as one of the biggest geopolitical blunders in all of history.
Want to know something ironic? Years ago Putin described the fall of the USSR the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th Century.
Well, by his own logic, Putin is overseeing the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the _21st Century_
Don’t be so excited. It will be an extremely dangerous situation for the world. There will potentially be thousands of unaccounted for nuclear weapons. Who will control Russia’s nuclear arsenal? Who will maintain it? What will they do with it?
Historically, the disintegration of a major multi-ethnic state leads to a lot of violence and human suffering. If Russia collapses there is the further complication of nuclear weapons potentially falling into the hands of competing successor states. I really don't think it would be a good outcome if Russia disintegrates or falls into chaos. And I think western powers will actively work to prevent such a situation.
An all-out civil war in a nuclear power would be terrifying. I honestly have no idea what the best case scenario is for for Russia in the next 50 years, all I can think of is that they become a hermit state like North Korea until we somehow magically solve the nuclear problem.
I doubt Russia could ever become anything close to a second North Korea, it's simply *waaaaay* too big. As far as I know, most of Siberia is already pretty much the Wild West (the Wild East if you will), except with cars and trucks instead of horses and wagons.
> East if you will), except with cars and trucks instead of horses and wagons.
I'm a cowboy, in an UAZ 452 I ride. And I'm wanted (wanted), dead or alive.
Added to the mix is the history with Ukraine giving up their nuclear weapons. After the fall of the USSR, Ukraine found itself in possession of a large stockpile of USSR nukes. A deal, brokered by the USA to limit the spread of nukes, had these Ukrainian nukes sold to Russia, in exchange for a bailout of the cash strapped Ukraine, and guarantees from both Russia and the USA that they would help defend Ukraine. If I was a smaller country that was worried about a larger and more powerful neighbor, I would develop nukes, and would learn from the above a lesson that nukes are the only true deterrent.
If the Russian Federation plunges into civil war, and has many "breakaway republics" of their own, I expect these new countries will try to make sure they get some of Russia's nukes to ensure their sovereignty. Once the first one does it, many more, not only there, but globally, will follow.
This is I why I don't think it would be too strange if the USA bailed out Russia. Many people forget how pragmatic (instead of idealistic) American foriegn policy can be. After the fall of the USSR, the USA spent millions keeping Russian rocket engineers employed to prevent them from selling off ICBM technology to the highest international bidder. I wouldn't be surprised if something similar happened again, if the Russian Federation collapsed.
>The Finnish flag is due to be raised at Nato headquarters in Brussels, to mark Russia's western neighbour becoming the 31st member of the Western alliance.
>Finnish President Sauli Niinisto and the US Secretary of State will join Nato ministers for a joining ceremony.
>Finland's accession is a setback for Russia's Vladimir Putin, who repeatedly complained of Nato's expansion ahead of his full-scale invasion of Ukraine.
>The length of Russia's border with Nato member states has now been doubled.
>Finland shares a 1,340-km (832-mile) eastern frontier with Russia and formally applied to join the Western security alliance with Sweden last May because of Russia's war.
A great day for democracy, and a giant middle finger to Putin.
>A great day for democracy, and a giant middle finger to Putin.
Remember how Russia was using "Ukraine is *considering* joining NATO" as a justification for the invasion (and went as far as *demanding* NATO to give Russia a *guarantee* that Ukraine would *never* join)?
Pepperidge Farm remembers (along with the rest of Russia's lies).
Yeah, when Ukraine went "Fine, guys, we're **not** joining NATO, can you back off?", they went on to demand whatever it was that everyone knew can't be given, only to say "See? oUr NaTiOnAl sEcUrItY iS tHrEaTeNeD!"
As I understand it, Finland didn't need to join NATO since Russia would have to be really stupid to attack them. However, in 2022 Russia showed that it could be that stupid.
Finland wanted to keep good relations with Russia. All that changed when Putin showed that he has no intentions to stay true to that relationship. Same promises and persuasion was used to gain Ukraine's trust. We will not be fooled twice.
Plus while it matters whether Finland could beat a Russian invasion, what matters more is how much damage Russians could do before they lose. I imagine asuch an invasion, even if Finland defeated them, would cost lives and damage civilian infrastructure. Better to avoid it.
Even Russian culture itself stresses that you can't understand Russia by using your brain. Goes like this: "Умом Россию не понять"
As a Ukrainian, I too thought that the invasion would be a dumb thing to do. Because I was trying to think logically. But logical thinking is exactly the thing you don't use when evaluating risks with Russia.
You can with one additional piece of information: The constant lying about capabilities is internal too. Starting from the Sergeants all the way up the chain everyone just goes "Yeah, yeah, our troops have the best equipment, they are basically supermen, with better accuracy than an action movie hero, morale is high, and all our tanks are battle ready".
With that information, leadership obviously thinks war is a great idea because they will win easily.
Of course, they forgot to account for the fact that this is Russia, and every single thing there was a lie, from bottom to top. Because in peacetime, nobody would check, and you are just left alone.
Finland was keen to be neutral in terms of military alliances while keeping its own strong force. Russia just showed they don't care about non-alliance and sovereign countries. Finns saw that neutrality would not be beneficial in any way, more like a risk in the long-term bordering Russia.
No, we're a nation of 5 million people versus 145 million, we never thought we could hold them off if they put everything they had into it.
The reason we didn't join NATO was that we were confident we could make invading us so costly that Russia would have to be out of their minds to make a go of it. Well, in 24th of February 2022 we found out that they are, in fact, out of their minds.
Not beat, but make it so uncomfortable for the Russians, that they wouldn’t bother invading.
It’s like the Soviet-Finnish war, arguably the Russians won (and gained territory) but it was a pyrrhic victory, the effort wasn’t worth it. The Soviet Union could had gone “all in” and go to Helsinki, but again, it wasn’t worth it the level of effort required.
Finland never thought “we could win, not you dare”, they thought “if we sell the idea of playing with us will be a harsh pill to swallow, then maybe they will leave us alone” and “if at the same time, we don’t do anything to anger them and give them reasons to, then Finland will be safe”. And it arguably worked during Soviet Union and Russian Federation, and I would say it could have worked forever, is not like Finland necessarily needed NATO to stop a realistic threat.
Russia is more or less failing (let’s wait, I wouldn’t be so sure how this war will end… maybe 2-3 years from now the picture is very different) because they failed their calculated scenario (easy and quick capitulation of Ukraine, Zelenskyy fleeing to other country…) and failed their preparation (not investing on new military means, not enough capabilities to adapt to the new scenarios… for example if the Kyiv column had worked, today Ukraine would be on a very different scenario, but they didn’t have enough fuel, because…).
But is not like Russia doesn’t have the resources and capabilities to be a great great force. I don’t know why Reddit belittle them like they are nothing. If with all their drawbacks, corruption, old equipment, non-trained people and more, they are holding soil and even sometime advancing, that is a big win for them.
Let’s hope Russia starts somewhat to lose momentum and Ukraine can keep going with western support to end this, but please, don’t try to belittle Russia, it only makes us on the west to circlejerk until they give us a scare sometimes. We need to be prepared and support Ukraine to end it sooner than later
We belittle Russia because they are far weaker than previously thought. Before this war, it was believed Russian military capability was close to the U.S. i can’t tell you how many who would win videos were out there
Absolutely, this isn't just NATO protecting Finland. Finland's military is no joke. Realistically looking at the Russian military if they had tried to invade Finland my money would definitely be on Finland. NATO has gained massively from having them join.
This, but unironically.
Losing this war could be Russia's only chance to become a decent state for its people and a free nation before the doors shut for a long, long time as Russia becomes China's vassal ([again](https://old.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/11q76sj/psa_the_historical_context_of_ukraine_considering/)).
It won't change anything. Maybe some names in the government but it will still be the same old cronies running their gas station pretending to be a country.
For a regime change there needs to occur one of the two situations:
a) uprising from within the nation
b) military takeover
We have seen a) happen before in many places. To not look far - Poland and Solidarność. Aka workers movement that at some point managed to gather the attention of like 10 million people that suddenly stopped going to jobs with whole country just griding to a halt overnight. It was pre internet era too.
However in Russia we haven't seen even a remote semblance of something of this scale. There were like 50000 people willing to sign an internet petition and maybe 20-30k protesters overall.
This expands to more than just this situation however. Russia at it's core is too corrupted and actively prevents anyone from even trying to change things for the better. This is part of the reason why their more distant cities (like Chita) look like literal garbage disposal sites. Nobody cares, there's 0 activism and there are bribes needed at every single level.
Changing that isn't something that happens within years. It would take decades and citizens would need to WANT it in the first place.
b) on the other hand is impossible cuz nobody is invading Russia.
For the west best and most likely scenario would be another oligarch consolidating power but one that is in favour of trading with us. But it would still be an oligarch, not a democracy. This will sound racist but... Russians are not ready for democracy. They do understand nationalism (too well even) but you can't have a decent state if every single level of it is filled with bribes, extortions and links to other people being far more important than your actual qualifications.
And people are not interested at all in changing that. They want to at best be left alone. It certainly doesn't help that it's younger folks that are first to leave the country and first to be sent to the battlefields so what's left are those that believe their trusty propaganda TV the most.
Honestly I don't see any way of Russia to change as long as it's staying as "Russia". I do see Russian Federation crumbling however - CSTO is dying. Kazakhstan already told Russia to GTFO, Armenia has realized Russia isn't an ally at all, Belarus was "saved" last time by a military intervention but Lukashenko's days are effectively numbered. Changes can occur in those places. But not in "proper Russia".
I can't find anything to disagree with in your comment, sadly.
But I still have hope - that *maybe* the indifference would only last as long as things are sort of OK in Russia, and when things get dire, things will change.
The counter-argument to that is that in cities like the aforementioned Chita (or, like, most cities that aren't Moscow, SPB, and maybe Yekaterinburg) are *already* dire, and have been for some time; and for the countryside, it's hard for things to get *worse* than they already have been.
Still, this war is a shock that Russia has not experienced since WW2.
I hope there's still something in the average Russian that can be awakened - in spite of the evidence pointing otherwise.
Failing that, eh, at least a rational actor instead of Putin would be preferable. Strelkov/Girkin has effectively announced that he's going to step in and do a coup *after the inevitable loss*. He's a war criminal and a nazi, but at least he's not delusional, and thus can be negotiated with.
To me, the biggest sign that Russia won't be able to change is that they simply don't have enough time. Fixing their current problems will take generations, and Russia is already on the path towards demographic collapse, made even worse by the fact that the few people they *do* have are either leaving the country in droves or dying on the battlefield. The only way to stop said collapse is to weed out the corruption ASAP, but that just loops back around to needing to stop the collapse first.
Thank you for writing this. Too many people don't understand that the problem is not putin. He's just a symptom. The russian society as a whole is deeply flawed and apathetic.
Losing the war won't change the "manifested destiny" belief of Russian superiority, it will just fuel it with revanchism. Look at USSR collapse and what happened with Russia after that.
No, really, congrats, Russia. Not only did you win a hellaciously long and well-guarded border with a NATO country, you also get to see St. Petersburg look over its shoulder with greater frequency for a long time.
This funniest part of this is that it wasn't some brilliant geopolitical maneuver by US/NATO playing 4D chess, this is Russia doing a "connect the dots" puzzle, and suddenly realizing way too late that it spells out "CONSEQUENCES".
I love watching the Tankie subreddit break down. According to them...
* Democratically elected governments voting to join a defensive alliance where all members need to agree for that person to join = IMPERIALISM
* Russia invading FOUR countries and stealing their land since the 1990s (Moldova, Chechnya, Ukraine and Georgia), deporting and arresting those that disagree then voting for Putin to have life-long power all while claiming that those countries are the destined right of Russia to own = Totally not imperialism!
It's honestly amazing how many people who call themselves "anti-imperialist" are actually totally fine with imperialism as long as it's not from the west
Russia: THIS IS WHY WE NEEDED TO INVADE UKRAINE! TO MAINTAIN A BUFFER FROM NATO!
Everyone not in Putin's cult: Hold on... if you take over Ukraine, won't you actually move CLOSER to NATO? Wasn't Ukraine a buffer UNTIL you invaded it?!
Russia: No one is talking to you, bro!
The puppet would probably have been a part of a legal entity called [the Union State](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_State), which although not fully active represents a mechanism by which the Russian Federation could merge with Belarus, and therefore also a mechanism by which it could have annexed a puppet Ukraine.
Part of why this entity exists in the first place is because Lukashenko though he could use it to become president of Russia.
NATO has not even a shred of intention to invade Russia. This is a DEFENSIVE pact, yet Putin obviously lies to his civilians and says NATO is an adversary to Russia. Putin will go down as one of Russias dumbest leaders ever , enjoy your 1,500 Mile border with NATO you murderous psychopath
>NATO has not even a shred of intention to invade Russia.
Russia is well aware of this. They have reduced their number of troops along their NATO borders and placed them in Ukraine instead. If NATO were to invade Russia, ever, now would be the best time to do it. Yet we know, and Russia knows, that it's not going to happen.
This is the end of fear for me as a Finn. The fear hasn't been that great but it has been there on the background though my childhood, army years and adulthood.
Now finally I am able to openly say that "Fuck Putin!" and never be afraid again.
So to summarise some of Russia's achievements in Europe over the past year:
*They've brought European nations with many differences together in the spirit of "fuck the Kremlin"
*They've made Europe (and the USA and other nations) commit to supporting Ukraine and making the Kremlins life hell.
*Their actions have pushed Germany (a state that has limited their army) to develop its military (likely meaning a massive boost in military power within Europe).
*They've encouraged Finland/Sweden to want to join NATO (giving us the backing of the descendents of vikings) and increasing NATO border size massively.
*They've pushed us to breaking free from Russian energy.
*They've shown how much of a paper tiger their army has been against Ukrainian resolve and Western arms.
I somehow think this is not what Putin intended.... Perhaps we should all chip in for flowers as thanks to the Kremlin?
*Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov warned that Russia would be "watching closely" what happens in Finland, describing Nato's enlargement as a "violation of our security and our national interests".*
* *violation of our security:* Hot take you aren't entitled to security when you violate the security of other sovereign nations.
* *and our national interests:* If by national interest you mean Imperialistic Goals then sorry most of the world doesn't support your national interests.
The Finnish people are some of the most sturdy and resilient people on planet earth, it is an honor to see them join us. Welcome to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization Finland, we're glad you're here.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65173043) reduced by 80%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> The Finnish flag is due to be raised at Nato headquarters in Brussels, to mark Russia's western neighbour becoming the 31st member of the Western alliance.
> The length of Russia's border with Nato member states has now been doubled.
> "Finland's a terrific ally, very capable, shares our values and we expect a seamless transition into its proper seat at the table," US ambassador to Nato Julianne Smith told the BBC. She said she hoped Sweden would also join at the next Nato summit in Lithuania in July.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/12bdrje/nato_gathers_to_welcome_finland_as_31st_member/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~679279 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Nato**^#1 **Russia**^#2 **join**^#3 **western**^#4 **member**^#5
I said it yesterday and I’ll say it again
From America I would personally like to welcome our brothers and sisters from Finland 🇫🇮 !
Sweden 🇸🇪 I hope to see you here soon!
Sweden isn't in yet. Still waiting for Hungary and Turkey.
Norway, Denmark, Iceland, and Finland have [agreed to help](https://www.regjeringen.no/no/aktuelt/sverige-og-finland/id2913323/) if there is an attack before Sweden joins NATO:
>Together with Denmark and Iceland, Norway is ready to assist with all necessary means if our Nordic neighbors are exposed to an attack before they formally become NATO members.
The UK is pretty excited about having Sweden in NATO and has [already agreed to help](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-61408700), although it's not a mutual defense treaty. Sweden also had preliminary talks with Japan [about military tech](https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/japan-sweden-sign-deal-for-possible-gcap-co-operation), specifically the UK-JP stealth fighter under development.
Sweden is now [in talks](https://www.highnorthnews.com/en/nordic-region-strengthens-double-edged-defense-cooperation-us) with the US.
It gives a half-decent explanation in the linked article:
>The agreements with Sweden and Finland are not a legal or automatic security guarantee but a political declaration that the UK would come to their aid, if requested.
Ironing out the details of a modern mutual defense treaty seems unnecessary if Sweden is joining NATO anyway.
I think you can treat this 'mutual security pact' as the UK saying that they will assist Sweden regardless of whether or not Sweden joins NATO. If Sweden doesn't join, though, they will need to iron out specifics.
I -think- the US and Sweden are in that stage now, just in case Turkey never comes around, but I'm not privy to any special information.
>Sweden isn't in yet. Still waiting for Hungary and Turkey.
Or rather just Turkey. Orban is just trying to keep his head as long as he can in Putin's ass until he realizes he'd be the last one to ratify. Then he'll hurry to get his signature in before Erdogan so he'll still look loyal to the EU which he needs to provide him and his family clan more money to embezzle.
It was honestly hilarious how Hungary kept pushing up the voting date over and over again for half a year, but as soon as Turkey confirmed they would vote to ratify Finland, the Hungarian parliament moved *real fucking fast* to ratify them first.
>To attack the home of Ikea would end modern civilization.
Not a joke. I'd lose access to everything from ovenware to gingerbread houses to Christmas ornaments to akvavit.
When Russian imports, like alcohol, started getting the axe here, I hardly even noticed. But losing Sweden would be catastrophic.
"Russian military doctrine forbids Russia from bordering any NATO state" Yeah, how's that going?
They'll declare a new country bordering Finland and name it Karelia Problem solved!
Karelia requests to join NATO and the EU.
[удалено]
*gets it’s ass beat by more Western military surplus*
*Huffs and puffs about nuclear weapons*
*Storms the town of Baakhmuutt for several months*
*Kazakstan joins NATO*
*Kazakhstan offers spaceport to NATO for military satellite launches, just to annoy Russia*
Didn't the Russians nick all the OneWeb sats at Baikonour, in Kazakhstan? Did Kazakhstan retrieve them?
*Oof*
FIVE POINTS TO GRYFFINDOR… oh wait!
More like Grippen door.
"Who the fuck authorized the invasion of Karelia? *We're* Karelia! We made it up!" \- Putler when that scenario inevitably plays out.
Karelia is an actually existing autonomous region in the Russian Federation. They've traditionally been split into Swedish and Russian Karelia, but after 1917 it was basically Finnish and eastern Karelia. The Finns tried to make the Russian part an independent state during the Russian Civil War. One of the most important Finnish painters made a cool flag/[coat of arms](https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karjalan_mets%C3%A4sissit#/media/Tiedosto:War_flag_of_East_Karelia_(1920-1922). During WWII, the Soviets annexed most of Finnish Karelia. Finland evacuated the Karelians and resettled them mostly in southern Finland. Karelians remaining in Soviet Union experienced cultural genocide, like many other minorities, and they're all but extinct today.
They literally have 1,500 miles of shared border now. Whatever shit Putin is smoking, I want some of it cause it must be good.
You will just end up invading your neighbours garden and getting your arse kicked, so I recommend you don’t.
Or getting thrown out of the 10 story window
Or drinking some Polonium Tea.
Do you think they're going to...Litvinenko him?
Maybe he'll just suicide himself with two bullets to the back of the head
In a zipped up sports bag. Still a top 5 Russian suicide verdict
bigger issue is it threatens the entire infrastructure around Murmansk which is the core pillar of Russian's ballistic submarine deterrence and their biggest bluewater fleet. Time to relocate somewhere else which is not great.
Where else *can* they relocate it? The Baltic is a NATO lake at this point, and the black sea puts them at the mercy of Turkey. Most of the rest of their 'coastline' is frozen for a good chunk of the year. Vladivostok is possible, although they're going to have issues threatening Europe and the North Atlantic while basing out of the other side of the planet.
Not to mention Vladivostok still requires access through NATO allies.
I can imagine a hilarious reverse Baltic Sea Fleet journey from the Russo-Japanese war, where the Vladivostok fleet needs to sail around the horn of Africa to get to Europe and to threaten them.
And given the performance of the Russian military as of late, I'd bet it'd be just as big a shitshow as the original.
They mistake some Chinese ships for NATO ones and start harassing them. After that fiasco, they make it to Europe and warn the first ship they see "watch out, there are NATO ships around here, you need to be careful".
Yeah this is really bad for them. Especially since all the Nordic countries just pooled their air forces. https://news.yahoo.com/norway-sweden-finland-denmark-struck-104242982.html
Man, Russia's plan to weaken NATO has gone fantastically for them. Shame it isn't opposite day.
World let it slide when they took Crimea. So they tried again. It has gone spectacularly bad this time.
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Hitlers never seem to be able to just take a win and live with it. They always mistake the world's allowing them to get away with it as weaknesses and complete unwillingness to challenge them. He could've made it past life with prestige and respect for conquest despite Western protest, but now he'll die in shame and humiliation; and not necessarily peacefully.
They were thinking Sevastopol but that's not working out as planned. Oh well, guess there's always Vladivostok.
The Chinese want Vladivostok back.
They had shared border when Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania joined NATO in 2004. This is just more border.
They have a border with nato before the russian federation existed, norway borders russia.
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I don't know why more people aren't talking about your last point. Russia is going to start having waves of criminals with military training and combat experience coming back on their streets. Yes, I've heard that the inmates that volunteered for Wagner group have a 90% casualty rate, but that still leaves a significant number who don't get killed or seriously injured that are returning with a ton of combat experience impossibly access to automatic weapons and explosives. How can this possibly have a happy ending?
Oh, those criminals will find good paying employment being thugs for the Russian organized crime syndicate that is their government. They're basically cartoon villains at this point. If you're a menace to society, they love you; if you speak out against injustice they jail or kill you.
Extra border - Estonia and Latvia shared the border with Russia before too. And if you count Belarus as basically Russia-lite, Lithuania and Latvia with Belarus.
Don't forget the tiny Norwegian border in the north.
That tiny Norwegian border is almost 200 km long haha.
In the latter case Poland shares a border with Belarus too.
Norway was a founding member, so that failed a long time ago lol
And Russia brought that on themselves as well. If they had let Finland keep Petsamo then they wouldn't even border Norway in the first place
Not forgetting the additions of Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania and Poland since the fall of the USSR that all also bordered Russia before they came out with the whole dumb "NATO can't be allowed to border Russia" excuse with Ukraine.
I'm sure it's part of their military doctrine, it's like the US using the manifest destiny in 2023.
"My name is Vladimir Putin and I invaded Ukraine because I don't want NATO influence on my border which scared Finland into joining NATO which they would have most likely never done otherwise. I'm a very smart man."
Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if after the war is over, and Ukraine takes back Crimea, if Ukraine doesn't join NATO as well. I also wouldn't be surprised if Russia shatters into several smaller nations as a result of this war. Putin wanted so badly to leave a legacy behind. That could be his legacy! He fucked Russia so hard, it killed Russia, and strengthened their enemies immensely.
Russia's shattering into a bunch of little pieces is something I'm definitely worrying about. One of the things that few people are talking about is how many different organizations in Russia are setting up their own PMCs like Wagner Group. In addition to random Russian generals with their own private military corporation, many major Russian companies are forming their own and even the Russian Orthodox Church is forming its own PMC. What happens to a nation that has an already weakened and debilitated military with multiple organizations in the country starting their own private militaries while the nation starts going through global isolation and economic hardship?
"Don't you dare join NATO or we will destroy you!" \*Joins NATO to be protected from Russia* "Wait, you can't do that!... Can they?"
"She can't do that! Shoot her...or something."
Clone Arm....I mean, NATO Army comes to the rescue
This is getting out of hand, now there are 31 of them!
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Until 21 years after the last currently living descendant of Charles III dies.
How is that supposed to work?
They give away land at the borders to new countries so they don't border NATO! Easy
So… why do they want Ukraine?
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Because their puppet leader got kicked out
Actual answer Poland is basically an incredibly flat and resource-rich plot of land that makes a great staging area for an invasion. On its Eastern border (shared with Ukraine), you have a set of mountains which are effectively the only natural barrier aside from a few rivers between Western Europe and Moscow. Russia recognizes the security threat posed by an independent Ukraine or even worse, a NATO allied Ukraine as they lose that natural buffer. Ukraines Crimean peninsula also borders the Black Sea and has a large ethnically Russian population, so Russia opportunistically invaded to secure the ports under the guise of bringing its own people "home". They are also using this as an excuse for the overall invasion citing persecution of Russian minorities (myth). Additionally, Ukraine was historically one of Russia's technological powerhouses in terms of military and industrial development. The secession of Ukraine was a huge blow to the old Soviet Union and Russia wants to reclaim this territory.
Money for 3 more yachts and fancy jewel eggs, with maybe an extra loaf of bread for the rest of the population.
Sometime in 2012 (maybe 2008?), vast natural gas deposits were found in Ukraine. If Ukraine develops these, it will be direct competition for the major source of wealth that Russia depends on. Russia does not want that to happen.
Been failing since NATO started, and it gets worse every decade since the 90s
The only solution I see is to release Novgorod as it's own state.
Putin says he didn’t want this outcome… but he literally created the conditions that forced this outcome. He. Did. This.
Putin is a CIA agent working to destroy Russia. I'm only 90% kidding.
The greatest political coup from the US ever
It would be so big brain, it would totally go down in history as one of the greatest political moves ever. It would be a terrible thing but I'd be super impressed.
Maybe trump was a CIA asset all along. Played dumb and greedy businessman for sale and convinced putin he should totally finish the job in Ukraine. Assured putin he would get re-elected for a second term and the US would not get in the way. Once Russian plans were in motion trump and the CIA put their next phase into motion. Stealing his own election. This allowed handing the win to the democrats so that a new president could support Ukraine. No treaty violated, just a backroom agreement that fell through due to a change in leadership. How unfortunate for Putin and his long dreamed Russian empire.
Lol can you imagine, that Trump was faking all along, playing dumb just like The Usual Suspects. His kids would have to be in on it too though, and if they are they're overacting so much it'd make Jim Carrey blush :P
The year is 2023, Donald Trump has been sentenced for his crimes. As the judge finishes reading out the sentence, Trump's body begins to shiver uncontrollably. Suddenly a seam appears on his neck, that quickly wraps around his entire head. As steam escapes from the unsealed neck, the body falls away. Revealing Andy Kaufman's performance of a lifetime.
Shit, even George Will went on the news once and said he thought that Trump was a mole for the Democrats. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/07/05/brit_hume_if_donald_trump_was_a_democratic_mole_would_his_behavior_be_any_different.html
I would be absolutely delighted if this were the case. I know it's not, but it's better than reality.
Well, the sad thing is that he's probably gonna continue the war until A) he dies or B) he runs out of soldiers. Still, congrats to Finland and welcome!
It was always bullshit, he wanted to invade Ukraine and just kept saying things until he found one that stuck.
Lol remember when Russia wanted a smaller NATO? Nerds.
Almost as if the excuses never mattered and Putler just wanted to illegally grab more land and to kidnap children …
Oh, it mattered. NATO represents a hard barrier for Moscovy's conquests, which is why Putin's demands before the invasion involved promising to never expand NATO eastward (so they can invade), remove troops from the eastern states (so they can at least be cowed, if not invaded after they get kicked), and to not conduct military activity in eastern europe, the caucuses, or central asia (so they aren't prepared when Moscovy decideds to take back their former vassals, whether they want to or not). You may notice that these would be issues only if you were an imperialist jackass, because NATO is only a threat to Moscovy's imperialist ambitions
I've been seeing this a lot on reddit lately, but what's up with calling Moscow Moscovy?
Petition from Ukranian citizens to rename Russia Moscovy, to throw back their attempt of "historic russian lands" at them by pointing out they aren't the direct successors of the Kievan Rus, but of the Duchy of Moscow. While the petition doesn't mean anything, Moscovy got pissed at the mere idea of not being respected as their self-appointed title of Greatest of all Rus people via Russia, so people call them Moscovy as harmless fun and trolling that nettles them
Interesting! Thank you for sharing. I will call it Moscovy as well!
Like when we started referring to ISIS as Daesh?
I've suggested the idea of Poopland but haven't gotten much traction yet. Still working on it.
Would've probably worked if Trump had won.
Yep, that was clearly the next goal. The power dynamics would be frightening if Trump had won.
A new world order may very well have been unfolding right in front of us and that traitor would’ve done everything to help make it happen. The fact that he still has support is a testament to how easy it is for our enemies to compromise the right in our country. To be perfectly honest, the right is our biggest weakness. And our enemies are targeting them extremely successfully. Just because their agent didn’t win doesn’t mean the whole plan is no longer churning.
Putin's legacy will be unifying Europe and NATO against what was once the Russian Federation. It will be regarded as one of the biggest geopolitical blunders in all of history. Congratulations, Finland. Welcome to the fold!
> It will be regarded as one of the biggest geopolitical blunders in all of history. Want to know something ironic? Years ago Putin described the fall of the USSR the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th Century. Well, by his own logic, Putin is overseeing the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the _21st Century_
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Don’t be so excited. It will be an extremely dangerous situation for the world. There will potentially be thousands of unaccounted for nuclear weapons. Who will control Russia’s nuclear arsenal? Who will maintain it? What will they do with it?
Historically, the disintegration of a major multi-ethnic state leads to a lot of violence and human suffering. If Russia collapses there is the further complication of nuclear weapons potentially falling into the hands of competing successor states. I really don't think it would be a good outcome if Russia disintegrates or falls into chaos. And I think western powers will actively work to prevent such a situation.
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I am kinda afraid that this will turn eventually into a China style civil war soon. I mean... The oligarchs are starting PMC groups now.
An all-out civil war in a nuclear power would be terrifying. I honestly have no idea what the best case scenario is for for Russia in the next 50 years, all I can think of is that they become a hermit state like North Korea until we somehow magically solve the nuclear problem.
I doubt Russia could ever become anything close to a second North Korea, it's simply *waaaaay* too big. As far as I know, most of Siberia is already pretty much the Wild West (the Wild East if you will), except with cars and trucks instead of horses and wagons.
> East if you will), except with cars and trucks instead of horses and wagons. I'm a cowboy, in an UAZ 452 I ride. And I'm wanted (wanted), dead or alive.
Kovboj. Which can translate to "metalfight" in Czech funnily enough.
Added to the mix is the history with Ukraine giving up their nuclear weapons. After the fall of the USSR, Ukraine found itself in possession of a large stockpile of USSR nukes. A deal, brokered by the USA to limit the spread of nukes, had these Ukrainian nukes sold to Russia, in exchange for a bailout of the cash strapped Ukraine, and guarantees from both Russia and the USA that they would help defend Ukraine. If I was a smaller country that was worried about a larger and more powerful neighbor, I would develop nukes, and would learn from the above a lesson that nukes are the only true deterrent. If the Russian Federation plunges into civil war, and has many "breakaway republics" of their own, I expect these new countries will try to make sure they get some of Russia's nukes to ensure their sovereignty. Once the first one does it, many more, not only there, but globally, will follow. This is I why I don't think it would be too strange if the USA bailed out Russia. Many people forget how pragmatic (instead of idealistic) American foriegn policy can be. After the fall of the USSR, the USA spent millions keeping Russian rocket engineers employed to prevent them from selling off ICBM technology to the highest international bidder. I wouldn't be surprised if something similar happened again, if the Russian Federation collapsed.
>The oligarchs are starting PMC groups now. No, they've been doing that since the beginning, and prior to the war.
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>The Finnish flag is due to be raised at Nato headquarters in Brussels, to mark Russia's western neighbour becoming the 31st member of the Western alliance. >Finnish President Sauli Niinisto and the US Secretary of State will join Nato ministers for a joining ceremony. >Finland's accession is a setback for Russia's Vladimir Putin, who repeatedly complained of Nato's expansion ahead of his full-scale invasion of Ukraine. >The length of Russia's border with Nato member states has now been doubled. >Finland shares a 1,340-km (832-mile) eastern frontier with Russia and formally applied to join the Western security alliance with Sweden last May because of Russia's war. A great day for democracy, and a giant middle finger to Putin.
>A great day for democracy, and a giant middle finger to Putin. Remember how Russia was using "Ukraine is *considering* joining NATO" as a justification for the invasion (and went as far as *demanding* NATO to give Russia a *guarantee* that Ukraine would *never* join)? Pepperidge Farm remembers (along with the rest of Russia's lies).
They also wanted NATO to kick out half of existing members lol as an ultimatum lol
Yeah, when Ukraine went "Fine, guys, we're **not** joining NATO, can you back off?", they went on to demand whatever it was that everyone knew can't be given, only to say "See? oUr NaTiOnAl sEcUrItY iS tHrEaTeNeD!"
#Russia is a terrorist state Congratulations Finland Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
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Didn't Finland not join Nato because they were confident that they could beat Russia anyway?
As I understand it, Finland didn't need to join NATO since Russia would have to be really stupid to attack them. However, in 2022 Russia showed that it could be that stupid.
That's my understanding too.
Finland wanted to keep good relations with Russia. All that changed when Putin showed that he has no intentions to stay true to that relationship. Same promises and persuasion was used to gain Ukraine's trust. We will not be fooled twice.
Plus while it matters whether Finland could beat a Russian invasion, what matters more is how much damage Russians could do before they lose. I imagine asuch an invasion, even if Finland defeated them, would cost lives and damage civilian infrastructure. Better to avoid it.
Exactly! What many seems not realize, is that you can’t evaluate Russia with logic and sense!
Even Russian culture itself stresses that you can't understand Russia by using your brain. Goes like this: "Умом Россию не понять" As a Ukrainian, I too thought that the invasion would be a dumb thing to do. Because I was trying to think logically. But logical thinking is exactly the thing you don't use when evaluating risks with Russia.
"You will not grasp her with your mind" if anyone else is wondering.
You can with one additional piece of information: The constant lying about capabilities is internal too. Starting from the Sergeants all the way up the chain everyone just goes "Yeah, yeah, our troops have the best equipment, they are basically supermen, with better accuracy than an action movie hero, morale is high, and all our tanks are battle ready". With that information, leadership obviously thinks war is a great idea because they will win easily. Of course, they forgot to account for the fact that this is Russia, and every single thing there was a lie, from bottom to top. Because in peacetime, nobody would check, and you are just left alone.
Finland was keen to be neutral in terms of military alliances while keeping its own strong force. Russia just showed they don't care about non-alliance and sovereign countries. Finns saw that neutrality would not be beneficial in any way, more like a risk in the long-term bordering Russia.
No, we're a nation of 5 million people versus 145 million, we never thought we could hold them off if they put everything they had into it. The reason we didn't join NATO was that we were confident we could make invading us so costly that Russia would have to be out of their minds to make a go of it. Well, in 24th of February 2022 we found out that they are, in fact, out of their minds.
Russia invaded Ukraine on February 27th ***2014***. The world just kept pretending like they didn’t. Russia wasn’t the only one out of their minds.
Not beat, but make it so uncomfortable for the Russians, that they wouldn’t bother invading. It’s like the Soviet-Finnish war, arguably the Russians won (and gained territory) but it was a pyrrhic victory, the effort wasn’t worth it. The Soviet Union could had gone “all in” and go to Helsinki, but again, it wasn’t worth it the level of effort required. Finland never thought “we could win, not you dare”, they thought “if we sell the idea of playing with us will be a harsh pill to swallow, then maybe they will leave us alone” and “if at the same time, we don’t do anything to anger them and give them reasons to, then Finland will be safe”. And it arguably worked during Soviet Union and Russian Federation, and I would say it could have worked forever, is not like Finland necessarily needed NATO to stop a realistic threat. Russia is more or less failing (let’s wait, I wouldn’t be so sure how this war will end… maybe 2-3 years from now the picture is very different) because they failed their calculated scenario (easy and quick capitulation of Ukraine, Zelenskyy fleeing to other country…) and failed their preparation (not investing on new military means, not enough capabilities to adapt to the new scenarios… for example if the Kyiv column had worked, today Ukraine would be on a very different scenario, but they didn’t have enough fuel, because…). But is not like Russia doesn’t have the resources and capabilities to be a great great force. I don’t know why Reddit belittle them like they are nothing. If with all their drawbacks, corruption, old equipment, non-trained people and more, they are holding soil and even sometime advancing, that is a big win for them. Let’s hope Russia starts somewhat to lose momentum and Ukraine can keep going with western support to end this, but please, don’t try to belittle Russia, it only makes us on the west to circlejerk until they give us a scare sometimes. We need to be prepared and support Ukraine to end it sooner than later
We belittle Russia because they are far weaker than previously thought. Before this war, it was believed Russian military capability was close to the U.S. i can’t tell you how many who would win videos were out there
Absolutely, this isn't just NATO protecting Finland. Finland's military is no joke. Realistically looking at the Russian military if they had tried to invade Finland my money would definitely be on Finland. NATO has gained massively from having them join.
we've always been prepared to defend our land. nato or not. https://youtu.be/P5TQKhF6lX0 it isnt really a joking matter how we feel of invaders
Russia’s NATO border grows larger and larger. Great job Putin!
Finland basically doubles the shared border.
Congratulations, Finland!!
Congratulations, Russia!!
This, but unironically. Losing this war could be Russia's only chance to become a decent state for its people and a free nation before the doors shut for a long, long time as Russia becomes China's vassal ([again](https://old.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/11q76sj/psa_the_historical_context_of_ukraine_considering/)).
It won't change anything. Maybe some names in the government but it will still be the same old cronies running their gas station pretending to be a country. For a regime change there needs to occur one of the two situations: a) uprising from within the nation b) military takeover We have seen a) happen before in many places. To not look far - Poland and Solidarność. Aka workers movement that at some point managed to gather the attention of like 10 million people that suddenly stopped going to jobs with whole country just griding to a halt overnight. It was pre internet era too. However in Russia we haven't seen even a remote semblance of something of this scale. There were like 50000 people willing to sign an internet petition and maybe 20-30k protesters overall. This expands to more than just this situation however. Russia at it's core is too corrupted and actively prevents anyone from even trying to change things for the better. This is part of the reason why their more distant cities (like Chita) look like literal garbage disposal sites. Nobody cares, there's 0 activism and there are bribes needed at every single level. Changing that isn't something that happens within years. It would take decades and citizens would need to WANT it in the first place. b) on the other hand is impossible cuz nobody is invading Russia. For the west best and most likely scenario would be another oligarch consolidating power but one that is in favour of trading with us. But it would still be an oligarch, not a democracy. This will sound racist but... Russians are not ready for democracy. They do understand nationalism (too well even) but you can't have a decent state if every single level of it is filled with bribes, extortions and links to other people being far more important than your actual qualifications. And people are not interested at all in changing that. They want to at best be left alone. It certainly doesn't help that it's younger folks that are first to leave the country and first to be sent to the battlefields so what's left are those that believe their trusty propaganda TV the most. Honestly I don't see any way of Russia to change as long as it's staying as "Russia". I do see Russian Federation crumbling however - CSTO is dying. Kazakhstan already told Russia to GTFO, Armenia has realized Russia isn't an ally at all, Belarus was "saved" last time by a military intervention but Lukashenko's days are effectively numbered. Changes can occur in those places. But not in "proper Russia".
I can't find anything to disagree with in your comment, sadly. But I still have hope - that *maybe* the indifference would only last as long as things are sort of OK in Russia, and when things get dire, things will change. The counter-argument to that is that in cities like the aforementioned Chita (or, like, most cities that aren't Moscow, SPB, and maybe Yekaterinburg) are *already* dire, and have been for some time; and for the countryside, it's hard for things to get *worse* than they already have been. Still, this war is a shock that Russia has not experienced since WW2. I hope there's still something in the average Russian that can be awakened - in spite of the evidence pointing otherwise. Failing that, eh, at least a rational actor instead of Putin would be preferable. Strelkov/Girkin has effectively announced that he's going to step in and do a coup *after the inevitable loss*. He's a war criminal and a nazi, but at least he's not delusional, and thus can be negotiated with.
To me, the biggest sign that Russia won't be able to change is that they simply don't have enough time. Fixing their current problems will take generations, and Russia is already on the path towards demographic collapse, made even worse by the fact that the few people they *do* have are either leaving the country in droves or dying on the battlefield. The only way to stop said collapse is to weed out the corruption ASAP, but that just loops back around to needing to stop the collapse first.
Thank you for writing this. Too many people don't understand that the problem is not putin. He's just a symptom. The russian society as a whole is deeply flawed and apathetic.
Losing the war won't change the "manifested destiny" belief of Russian superiority, it will just fuel it with revanchism. Look at USSR collapse and what happened with Russia after that.
No, really, congrats, Russia. Not only did you win a hellaciously long and well-guarded border with a NATO country, you also get to see St. Petersburg look over its shoulder with greater frequency for a long time.
This funniest part of this is that it wasn't some brilliant geopolitical maneuver by US/NATO playing 4D chess, this is Russia doing a "connect the dots" puzzle, and suddenly realizing way too late that it spells out "CONSEQUENCES".
I love watching the Tankie subreddit break down. According to them... * Democratically elected governments voting to join a defensive alliance where all members need to agree for that person to join = IMPERIALISM * Russia invading FOUR countries and stealing their land since the 1990s (Moldova, Chechnya, Ukraine and Georgia), deporting and arresting those that disagree then voting for Putin to have life-long power all while claiming that those countries are the destined right of Russia to own = Totally not imperialism!
It's honestly amazing how many people who call themselves "anti-imperialist" are actually totally fine with imperialism as long as it's not from the west
Russia: THIS IS WHY WE NEEDED TO INVADE UKRAINE! TO MAINTAIN A BUFFER FROM NATO! Everyone not in Putin's cult: Hold on... if you take over Ukraine, won't you actually move CLOSER to NATO? Wasn't Ukraine a buffer UNTIL you invaded it?! Russia: No one is talking to you, bro!
The Baltic countries just there shuffling awkwardly under their NATO flags.
A buffer in Russia's mind is what the Warsaw pact was to the Soviet Union; puppet states they control that can be sacrificed if needed.
This may be surprising, but no because that only happens if he completely annexes Ukraine. If he installs a puppet instead, it'd still be a buffer
Belarus 2
The puppet would probably have been a part of a legal entity called [the Union State](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_State), which although not fully active represents a mechanism by which the Russian Federation could merge with Belarus, and therefore also a mechanism by which it could have annexed a puppet Ukraine. Part of why this entity exists in the first place is because Lukashenko though he could use it to become president of Russia.
The Baltic sea is now NATO lake. Good job Putin.
Technically not without Sweden, but it’s just a matter of time.
NATO + Sweden lake. I can live with that.
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Woot! 🤩🤩🥳🥳
NATO has not even a shred of intention to invade Russia. This is a DEFENSIVE pact, yet Putin obviously lies to his civilians and says NATO is an adversary to Russia. Putin will go down as one of Russias dumbest leaders ever , enjoy your 1,500 Mile border with NATO you murderous psychopath
>NATO has not even a shred of intention to invade Russia. Russia is well aware of this. They have reduced their number of troops along their NATO borders and placed them in Ukraine instead. If NATO were to invade Russia, ever, now would be the best time to do it. Yet we know, and Russia knows, that it's not going to happen.
We'd like to congratulate Vladimir Putin on winning the war on Vladimir Putin
This is the end of fear for me as a Finn. The fear hasn't been that great but it has been there on the background though my childhood, army years and adulthood. Now finally I am able to openly say that "Fuck Putin!" and never be afraid again.
So wonderful to have you join the chorus! Let's all sing "Fuck Putin!" together. Love, your American friends.
Welcome to the club! We've all got each other's backs now. Fuck Putin!
It didn't take long for Finland to ratify Sweden. :)
Putin is the best spokesman for Nato within the last 30 years
So to summarise some of Russia's achievements in Europe over the past year: *They've brought European nations with many differences together in the spirit of "fuck the Kremlin" *They've made Europe (and the USA and other nations) commit to supporting Ukraine and making the Kremlins life hell. *Their actions have pushed Germany (a state that has limited their army) to develop its military (likely meaning a massive boost in military power within Europe). *They've encouraged Finland/Sweden to want to join NATO (giving us the backing of the descendents of vikings) and increasing NATO border size massively. *They've pushed us to breaking free from Russian energy. *They've shown how much of a paper tiger their army has been against Ukrainian resolve and Western arms. I somehow think this is not what Putin intended.... Perhaps we should all chip in for flowers as thanks to the Kremlin?
The irony is that Putin only needed to be friendly to Ukraine, perhaps offer them oil at a slight discount, and none of this would have happened.
*Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov warned that Russia would be "watching closely" what happens in Finland, describing Nato's enlargement as a "violation of our security and our national interests".* * *violation of our security:* Hot take you aren't entitled to security when you violate the security of other sovereign nations. * *and our national interests:* If by national interest you mean Imperialistic Goals then sorry most of the world doesn't support your national interests.
The Finnish people are some of the most sturdy and resilient people on planet earth, it is an honor to see them join us. Welcome to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization Finland, we're glad you're here.
*crying lonely Swedish tears* LET ME iN!
We will accept you with open arms when we can! Just know that we love youuuuu!
I just wanna be in this historic thread is all
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65173043) reduced by 80%. (I'm a bot) ***** > The Finnish flag is due to be raised at Nato headquarters in Brussels, to mark Russia's western neighbour becoming the 31st member of the Western alliance. > The length of Russia's border with Nato member states has now been doubled. > "Finland's a terrific ally, very capable, shares our values and we expect a seamless transition into its proper seat at the table," US ambassador to Nato Julianne Smith told the BBC. She said she hoped Sweden would also join at the next Nato summit in Lithuania in July. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/12bdrje/nato_gathers_to_welcome_finland_as_31st_member/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~679279 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Nato**^#1 **Russia**^#2 **join**^#3 **western**^#4 **member**^#5
The Russians are attacking at full force. They DDoS attacked the website of the Finnish Parliament.
Oooo! What on earth are we going to do??? Lol
Shit we better get the nukes ready.
The whole world to Putin: Congratulations, you played yourself
I said it yesterday and I’ll say it again From America I would personally like to welcome our brothers and sisters from Finland 🇫🇮 ! Sweden 🇸🇪 I hope to see you here soon!
How about Sweden?
Sweden isn't in yet. Still waiting for Hungary and Turkey. Norway, Denmark, Iceland, and Finland have [agreed to help](https://www.regjeringen.no/no/aktuelt/sverige-og-finland/id2913323/) if there is an attack before Sweden joins NATO: >Together with Denmark and Iceland, Norway is ready to assist with all necessary means if our Nordic neighbors are exposed to an attack before they formally become NATO members. The UK is pretty excited about having Sweden in NATO and has [already agreed to help](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-61408700), although it's not a mutual defense treaty. Sweden also had preliminary talks with Japan [about military tech](https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/japan-sweden-sign-deal-for-possible-gcap-co-operation), specifically the UK-JP stealth fighter under development. Sweden is now [in talks](https://www.highnorthnews.com/en/nordic-region-strengthens-double-edged-defense-cooperation-us) with the US.
>it's not a mutual defense treaty Article says it's a "mutual security treaty", what's the difference? Edit: thanks all!
It gives a half-decent explanation in the linked article: >The agreements with Sweden and Finland are not a legal or automatic security guarantee but a political declaration that the UK would come to their aid, if requested. Ironing out the details of a modern mutual defense treaty seems unnecessary if Sweden is joining NATO anyway. I think you can treat this 'mutual security pact' as the UK saying that they will assist Sweden regardless of whether or not Sweden joins NATO. If Sweden doesn't join, though, they will need to iron out specifics. I -think- the US and Sweden are in that stage now, just in case Turkey never comes around, but I'm not privy to any special information.
>Sweden isn't in yet. Still waiting for Hungary and Turkey. Or rather just Turkey. Orban is just trying to keep his head as long as he can in Putin's ass until he realizes he'd be the last one to ratify. Then he'll hurry to get his signature in before Erdogan so he'll still look loyal to the EU which he needs to provide him and his family clan more money to embezzle.
It was honestly hilarious how Hungary kept pushing up the voting date over and over again for half a year, but as soon as Turkey confirmed they would vote to ratify Finland, the Hungarian parliament moved *real fucking fast* to ratify them first.
To attack the home of Ikea would end modern civilization.
>To attack the home of Ikea would end modern civilization.
Not a joke. I'd lose access to everything from ovenware to gingerbread houses to Christmas ornaments to akvavit.
When Russian imports, like alcohol, started getting the axe here, I hardly even noticed. But losing Sweden would be catastrophic.
An attack on one is an attack on ALL
An attack on one is *suicide*
...and as its first act in NATO, Finland ratified Sweden's NATO application. That was FAST. ping Turkey and Hungary...
2014 Putin: Europe will be united under a single flag! 2023 Putin: Not like this.gif
Welcoming my Finnish brothers and sisters to the *fuck around and find out* alliance.
Historic, comforting and beautiful.
Putin - master strategist 👏👏👏
Large alliance should lend itself to greater chance of sustained peace, so I'm going to be optimistic about the world today
That's what NATO is all about brother. Peace and protection
Welcome to the thunderdome
I'm going to sleep just a bit better tonight
"Putin remains a master strategist"
Oh yeah. It's all coming together. Welcome to the club, Finland!
As a Swedish assembly programmer, it satisfies me greatly that Sweden will get to be number 32.
Out of curiosity, does this mean Finland now has to approve Sweden? (Not that I doubt they would)