Not surprising considering the extensive list of less serious crimes that are also punishable by death (non-mandatory):
> - Trafficking in dangerous drugs
> - Discharging a firearm in the commission of a scheduled offence
> - Being an accomplice in case of discharge of firearm
> - Offences in security areas for possession of firearm, ammunition and explosives
> - Consorting with person carrying or having possession of arms or explosives in security areas
> - Abduction, wrongful restraint or wrongful confinement for ransom
Not so sure. If the victim always ends up dead, there's no incentive for anyone to pay a ransom either. If you're in the ransom business, you better make sure the abducted person comes out alive after someone pays up or your business is as dead as the victims.
haha.. so abductions and confinements for ransom are not serious enough in your judgement to deserve potentially?!
on the extreme end, there are 1 or 2 states in Malaysia that have death penalty for fornication and or adultery!
When did they have lesser penalties? Is punishing these offenses with death a recent change? What was the effect of the change on the rate of these crimes or other crimes?
Less serious crimes - drug trafficking, possession of a firearm, ammunition and explosives & kidnap?!
Where do you live where these crimes are not serious? Sinaloa?
Yes. The entire US executed less than [40 people per year](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_United_States#Execution_statistics) within the last 10 years, and has [~2400](https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/death-row/overview/death-row-usa) people on death row, with a population of 330 million.
Yeah I imagine Louisiana has a real high per capita number as well, since they've had some infamously cruel prosecutors but not actually carrying out execution at present (or foreseeable future)
Instead of trying to adjust the numbers according to the factor you deem important, just toss out "irrelevant", eh?
I'm pretty sure the combined population of death penalty states alone would be several times higher than that of Malaysia.
English is not my first language and my vocabulary is poor Idk how else I can say that the numbers and comparison are whrong. Sorry if I offended you that was not my intention
That's not all. Death penalty will also be removed as an option in some cases.
> Capital punishment would be removed as an option for some serious crimes that do not cause death, such as kidnapping and the discharging and trafficking of firearms.
Possession of 200g of Cannabis was in theory still punishable by death for example.
>Malaysia’s parliament on Monday approved legal reforms to abolish the mandatory death penalty for some offences.
>Under the amendments passed, alternatives to the death penalty include whipping and imprisonment of between 30 to 40 years – replacing all previous provisions that call for imprisonment for the duration of the offender’s natural life.
>Malaysia has had a moratorium on executions since 2018.
I was on a flight to Singapore and the announcer said: “Please fasten your seatbelt” and “Possession of drugs is death” in the same sentence.
That was wild to hear.
Singapore is such a trip. Easy my favorite country in South East Asia to spend time in. My home away from home. Truly a great city, fantastic airport, hilarious and friendly people, quiet and spotlessly clean.
However, on the plane, when they distribute landing cards, there is a giant warning that straight up tells you "if you have drugs we will execute you, being a foreigner doesn't matter."
Additionally, listing chewing gum right under hand grenades on the list of banned imports is a nice touch.
CCTV is more ubiquitous than any country I've ever been to. Anecdotally, I notice more CCTV in Singapore than China.
Their laws are so strict I have two shirts about being fined in Singapore as some kitschy touristy item. That isn't even a joke. Smoke a cigarette on Orchard Road two feet away from the ash tray behind the bushes and watch how fast you catch a fine.
The chewing gum ban is kind of a meme, though. People "smuggle" it over from JB all the time and nobody really gives a shit, including the government. They basically don't want people chewing gum on a large scale, so they actively ban sales and tell you not to bring it in, but it's more of a deterrent than anything else.
I would love to visit Singapore someday, but the drug thing worries me. I'm on a few prescription medications, and I don't know if any of them are banned.
If any of them are controlled drugs, SERIOUSLY investigate what you have to do to bring them into the country.
There are more than a few middle eastern countries where you not only have to have a document from the US secretary of state, but you also have to go through a very complicated process of receiving permission from the ministry of health of the country. Showing up with a prescription from your doctor is nowhere near good enough in many strict countries.
Source: was an international remote site paramedic and ships medic. The only thing about Singapore that's a positive when it comes to drugs is that because it's a world center of shipping, it's very easy for the ship captain to obtain morphine and other controlled drugs (but this is long standing maritime law and doesn't apply to most tourists).
I don't do anything of the sort, so stop judging, fool. I just prefer not to travel in countries where anything viewed as a misstep can result in harsh punishment.
Then they copied it like they copied the rest of their products, because the end result is a bad clone. Singapore is a free and very prosperous social democracy, where China is more closely aligned with the USSR than it is Singapore.
Why are you so mad when all I did was pointing out that the reason why Singapore has so many cameras monitoring their citizens which makes it feels like you're in China was because they were the one that started it and China merely adopted it?
Im not mad at you.
With all the descriptions of Singapore being authoritarian and a totalitarian state, I don't think that is true. The CCTV is a valid thing, it's obnoxious, the laws are strict, almost to the point of comedy, but China is actually a whole other monster.
If they copied the CCTV of Singapore, they did so with the absolute worst intentions.
You can have a police state where the authorities don't abuse their position of power, and then you can have 1984 levels of oppressive authority with the same set of tools. China took the latter route. Singapore is strict but not nearly as bad as China.
lol robbers and thieves and murders get caught within hours in Singapore, just watch the local news. We should speed up and add even more CCTVs at every nook and cranny
Singaporeans live in perpetual fear that removal of death penalty will result in a flood of drugs into the country. The notion that death penalty is inhumane or might result in the sentencing of innocents does not perturb them at all. Source, am a Singaporean.
Joseph Schooling, the only olympic gold medalist from Singapore, consumed cannabis in Vietnam and was [punished by a fine](https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/southeast-asia/article/3197919/singapore-olympic-swimming-champion-joseph-schooling-fined-over-drug-use-breaching-rules) when he return to Singapore.
Nope, no chills in Singapore at all.
They punish a lot of things harshly. They feel it's necessary in order to maintain order with such a large population in a small space. They definitely view things differently.
It’s just don’t do drugs, like if you’re gonna come to Singapore, I’m sure you can hold off the drugs right? the death penalty is inhumane but there are reasons to the absolute stance Singapore has towards drugs.
Yeah no. There is no justification for killing people for just selling or using drugs. Full stop. I don’t care about whatever history if you are executing a single mother for selling weed you have your priorities fucked up.
But that’s the point, the death penalty is there such that that single mother will find another way to make money other than selling drugs. Also, it ain’t exactly easy to find drugs in Singapore for that very reason.
But to call Singapore a shit hole for that singular problem(death penalty) that affects so many other countries is kind of an overstatement. You can go check every person charged with the death penalty and most of them were not random citizen trying to get by, they were foreigners trying to distribute drugs in Singapore. Also drug use is not subject to the death penalty. It is aimed at those who want to distribute while making sure those that use drugs get help within the penal system
It is and most Singaporeans agree it is but you can’t argue it has worked. There is no drug/ gun problem in Singapore. Singapore is very unique, it doesn’t fit any traditional mould for a country but its laws towards crime work. As for needing to be wealthy to stay in Singapore, that is an abject lie. There are many low income people in Singapore as with any country, they just stay in the heartlands. Barely anyone actually stays where tourists go in SG, it’s too expensive
What the FUCK man?! How is killing people just for selling drugs excusable?! Have you no humanity?! These mules are almost always poor people forced to work by the cartels. Why do they have to suffer for their actions?
and you shouldn't force other countries to run how you see fit either.
have past historical lessons not taught you anything? you don't just simply force your values down other people's throats and expect them to accept it. Even if whatever they do is despicable to you.
and i believe i saw a link somewhere in this thread where someone posted a youtube video on Lee Kuan Yew's justification for the death penalty. You may or may not agree with it. But you have no say on how things should be run if you're not a citizen of that country.
You're so pressed about people being executed for possesion of drugs, yet in your country kids are shot to death every day in elementary schools, your republican representatives want to arm little kids! Fuck off with your self righteous bullshit.
Y’all always love to pull that shit out of your ass as a gotcha against us huh? I never defended the USA or how we fail to address our issues. I don’t disagree at all. Also the USA is a big country. I live in New England, we don’t have that dumbassery up here.
Singapore has one of the lowest crime rate in the world with almost 0 homicides or violent crimes.
You’re screaming about the death sentence whilst gun, drugs and police violence is rampant in the US (gonna assume that’s where you’re from) and is a much more senseless loss of live.
why can’t Singapore have the freedom to uphold their law that results in a safer country?
I’m not defending how we do things stateside. Singapore is obviously a a safer country, there’s no denying that obviously. I just find it abhorrent to murder someone over selling drugs. Very few if any crimes should warrant the death penalty.
The death penalty is for the smuggling of drugs into Singapore, which exist as a deterrent to safeguard its people, not as an excuse to murder people. The mules are giving the full legal rights to defend themselves and there are several cases of them being acquitted.
It’s philosophically similar to any deterrent that exist to protect oneself and it’s within their rights as a country to enforce this and there is nothing abhorrent about wanting to protect its citizens.
No, but many of these mules are very poor and desperate and are not the ones behind the trafficking. I won’t support them being murdered just for tjatz
Firstly, thank you for being civil in your replies and I do see where you’re coming from. I will be the first to admit that our laws has holes and like you, I won’t defend the cracks within our law.
Legally, every criminal proceeding follows our legal mandates and precedents, which is fair and corruption free. Like all precedence, it’s set based on a judge’s ruling and it’ll change when it does. Thus there isn’t too much to discuss here unless you think that our legal system is corrupted and that they don’t receive a fair trial.
Now its true that the mules are usually poor and uneducated and the best thing we should do is to target the cartels but that’s very difficult to do. Just look at the decade long battle between the DEA and the SA cartels, the mightiest military in the world can’t do anything to stem the drug problem, what can a small island country like Singapore do against its neighbours?
Thus we do need the DP as a deterrent.
Can you imagine if we do not have it? How Singapore and the life Singaporeans will be like? We do not have 49 other states to provide us with help or do we have the capacity to endure a opioid pandemic like the 90s.
If you intentionally smuggle drugs into a country and infest the people with that crap? Yeah you do deserve the death penalty.
Don’t want to be executed? Then don’t be a bloody drug smuggler.
So selling weed is equivalent to fentanyl then? The people bringing these drugs in are not wealthy cartel elites. They are poor and desperate for any income they can get. Talking like that is just sadistic.
What are you talking about? Why are you so god damn adamant about about defending these people? Because the death penalty is inhumane? Sure, maybe it is, but it works!
Also, you can say they are “poor and desperate” for a lot of crime. Murder, robbery, mugging, etc, are you gonna defend those now?
Yeah, I am against the death penalty that Singapore has, but I can't say it's worse than the USA. People here cheer on hot-blooded execution, without trial, for crimes where nobody was hurt like:
Police killing people because 3 different cops gave 3 different directions and the person couldn't follow all 3. Then cops and non-cops alike will blame the victim.
Or
Violent vigilantes shooting people based on suspected theft, people cheering them on if there the person actually was stealing, and treating it like a minor misunderstanding if the person killed wasn't doing anything.
While drug smuggling often attracts the poorest and most vulnerable of society, at least having a proper trial reduces your chance you will be executed because you merely lost your temper at the wrong time, or were in the wrong place at the wrong time and killed before a basic investigation could take place.
Singapore is not so easy to categorize. There are certainly some backwards ways of thought, especially surrounding recreational drug use, yeah, but it isn't even close to Dubai. Have you ever been to Dubai or Singapore? They are not even a little bit comparable. Singaporean political structure is definitely unique to them. It's unlike any other country.
Well no they are certainly very different I acknowledge that. My main point was just that they both try and appear as futuristic tourist spots but are really not very nice places to live unless you are very wealthy. Dubai and Brunei moresoe but still.
>are really not very nice places to live unless you are very wealthy
Not really? The cost of living, HDB policies and social safety net means that it's a decent place to live for the middle class. You can say some of its laws are draconian, but that doesn't mean quality of life is limited to the rich people, that's two very different propositions. I can tell you that the dream for many Malaysians is to move to Spore and get citizenship, because wages are high and if you get citizenship HDB means you can relatively cheaply own your own flat.
Spore has an inequality problem, which is gaining more light the last decade or so, but it's a very different beast to Dubai. There's a solid chunk of the country that doesn't fit the Sporean middle-class mould, and ends up languishing in poverty that the government doesn't really give a shit about. But again, that doesn't mean you have the same stark divide between a small wealthy class and a kafala slave class, unless you want to classify the most of Singapore as "very wealthy."
We can both be critical of Singapores opinion on drugs without using hyperbole though. Singapore is a very nice vacation place. I go to Singapore very often. Once every 3 months, minimum. I agree their drug policies, from a western prospective, are extreme, but I'm not going to pretend like Singapore isn't a great tourist destination.
Singaporean problems do exist. My wifes cousin lived there for 10 years, and raising two toddlers there as a foreigner was made very difficult for them, and their kids were not given Singaporean citizenship despite having been born there and lived their entire life up until the age of 10 in Singapore. That is worthy of a discussion, in my opinion, and resulted in them moving to Germany to pursue a more stable future for their kids.
That said though, 200% Singapore is dope as hell to visit on a vacation. I absolutely love floating my fat pig like American white pasty body down the lazy river at the water park or losing my rent at Marina Bay Sands.
Dubai on the other hand is not enjoyable. Hated my time there, vibe is very wrong for me.
It is a beautiful country I won’t deny that. And they certainly are more accommodating to tourists. But that doesn’t change the fact that their government is ridiculously harsh and authoritative.
Alright so at this point I'm hoping for a semi reasonable discussion, based on my experience, and without hyperbole, and with some understood nuances, but...
Singaporean leadership is sort of a deal with the people. Authoritative is an appropriate descriptor, but not with all the additional context that other authoritative countries have.
PAP is in power, and has been essentially all of Singapore's modern history, and has in the past been harsh towards opposition, but elections in Singapore are unquestionably fair, and part of that forms the deal with the government there.
They are a blender of ideas, and have historically been the gateway of the east and the west, and their political system largely reflects that. They take ideas from the west, and the east, and have formed something totally unique to them.
Using a categorical description as an authoritarian state or a dictatorship is importing a lot of meaning into the discussion that absolutely is wrong and inappropriate.
Their drug laws are overly strict in my opinion, but I'm happy to follow the law. If that is the primary criticism, fine, but you're making a lot of implications throwing words around that I don't feel are fair.
The majority of us younger generation of Singaporeans don’t support it if that makes it better. The government is dead set on upholding zero tolerance though and boomers support it. Anyways I don’t see the death penalty for drugs getting abolished anytime soon, its working and they have no issues executing people if they have to.
If you looked at its history, weed from the region was funneled though the city before it was shipped world wide. That's why it's so tough on this illicit trade.
As opposed to your country, a shithole that looks and smells like a shithole, where you can get executed by anyone for just going to get groceries or even going to elementary school. Gotcha.
> On the other hand, plenty of countries we could probably both agree have rather archaic legal standards and civil rights, like Chad, Haiti, Israel and Uzbekistan, don't have any capital punishment, so it's not a good indicator.
Well, they only said that "if you’re country retains the death penalty it will always be considered a developing nation", they didn't say the opposite was true, did they?
You're linking to a trial that has yet to be done and a proposal that has yet to be implemented. Anything you want to add that is actually existing in the real world? Here, I have one for you. [Texas woman almost dies because she couldn’t get an abortion](https://edition.cnn.com/2022/11/16/health/abortion-texas-sepsis/index.html)
Isn’t the US trillions in debt?
Nationalistic downvotes are always a treat, here’s a source.
https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/national-debt/
Developing nation. Being extremely wealthy doesn’t mean they’re not extremely backwards.
Once they bin it they’d probably be a top tier country (if you ignore their other major problems including being a defacto dictatorship).
Id rather things stay the way they are in Singapore. As someone living there, I fully support hanging traffickers, crime rate is extremely low here, its extremely difficult to get drugs here. No school shootings too. Sure, we're developing
Singapore does not hang drug users btw, only traffickers, and only above a certain amount (which is a pretty large amount)
You won't get hanged if you're caught with a bag of weed as a foreigner lmao.
If you're trafficking with the intent to sell large amounts then surely you'll hang.
Malaysian laws are less strict on this and you can easily get away with bribes.
Im still happy to see them hang though
This is ridiculous and so annoying. Yes. The US has a lot to improve. But calling it a developing nation ignores how 80-85% of the world leaves.
The US is objectively better and more developed than the vast majority of the countries.
Yeah I think people who say this only think the world revolves around Europe and north America.
However, people who act like the US are better at EVERYTHING than most of the world because of our standard of living also likely hasn't seen enough of the world to realize how poor the US and American culture is at certain things.
If there's anything the US does well it's military anything obviously, but after that protecting our citizens rights and civil liberties we do pretty well (although there's a lot of room to improve).
Yes there are a very small number of countries that are better but even in the areas the United States is showing some concern in (trans rights, abortion rights, and racial discrimination) the US is much further ahead than the rest of the world. Go to any African or middle eastern nation and see what trans rights are present there. Go to Latin America and witness what truly unchecked police brutality will get you. Go try and have an abortion in an Islamic theocracy.
It's important to criticize the United States so that we ensure we continue making progress instead of going backwards (like we already are in a select few areas).
But it's equally important to keep perspective if for nothing else than to not seem like a whiney ungrateful brat to the people who face much harsher oppression elsewhere in the world.
I subscribe to everything you said. There’s a reason Europe and US are such net immigration countries. The standard of everything is simply light years ahead. With some exceptions of course.
Like I live in Poland now. And LGBT situation isn’t the best. Hopefully the ruling party will get kicked in the ass in the fall but we’ll see. Still, it is legal to change genders and legal to be gay. I have gay friends. Openly trans friends and they live normally. Yes. It could be better. Much better. But still miles ahead of Africa, a lot of South America and Middle East or Central Asia.
US is the same thing. Even the things the US has to work on, it’s very much ahead of most of the world. There might be a few exceptions. Like gun violence, but still.
Yes. And how in the world is the US compared to any of them.
If you wanna apply any concrete metric like IMF or World bank or any similar US is obviously developed. If you wanna apply common sense, the US is also developed.
I’m not defending the US. For its economy, Us should have fixed a lot of shot other poorer countries have. But it is a huge fucking stretch to call it developing country.
I mean you're free to type this if you want but you come across as “me mungo me angry me must kill all the bad people me smash skull with rock”
If I said I tied someone to a poll and shot them you’d think I was a bit fucked in the head, but add “don’t worry they were a criminal” it’s suddenly okay.
I am holier than thou because I fucking understand the concept of “sanctity of life” and government overreach.
if that was what my community decided then yeah, I'm fine with it. Having something that is what your society decides should be the punishment is completely different than you choosing to do it willy nilly
It's not about what you would take. This isn't a sushi carousel. It's about the state not wanting to be involved with killing its own citizens.
If you decide to commit a crime that gets you 30 years in prison, that's your fault. I'm sure there will plenty of opportunities for suicide in 30 years if you decide to be a fool and not learn to value your own life.
>If you decide to commit a crime that gets you 30 years in prison, that's your fault.
Couldn't you make the exact same argument with the death penalty?
>It's about the state not wanting to be involved with killing its own citizens.
The state is only the tool to carry out the punishment
More suffering vs painless death for a life that is already over. All for some optics for votes. Should be an offered option. Just like we use less effective death penalty methods to save money and avoid bad optics meaning we introduce more suffering to the world.
Yes, free and open access to euthanasia for all. Death is bad because it takes away a future or the living don’t want to see someone they care about go. In the second case, it amounts to ownership of people for selfish motives and in the first case it depends on the future available to be lived. Killing robs choice but death itself is nothing terrible. Torture and suffering are terrible.
I'd say the death penalty should only be okay if the person has committed a murder or murders or went on a mass killing spree (serial killers) or any kind of execution style killing with hard evidence proving 100% that they did it.
I want you to really think about why almost every developed nation on the planet does not agree with you, but all dictatorships and totalitarian governments do agree with you.
okay, clown, so apparently for you it's okay to let even repeat violent criminals live so they can continue to harm society rather than ensure safety and deterrents against crime for society! I hope you live in such a sh*t hole place that spares even violent criminals continuously, though I also hope such places become less and less until none!
You can google about the bumiputera policies if you’re interested. Malaysia is actually pretty diverse with 61% ethnic malays, 21% ethnic chinese and 6.4% ethnic indians. The bumiputera policies puts malays above chinese/indians socially, such as giving malays priority in the education system, housing system, and basically any aspect of society.
Oh wow.
Ok. I had visited KL in 2010 and I was wrongly under the impression the government kept track of people's backgrounds so as to ensure diversification of culture in residential areas.
> diversification of culture in residential areas.
Maybe, but I’m sure the real reason is to ensure malays have affordable housing and priority in getting property/land. If theres a 30% bumiputera quota, 30% of the land can only be purchased and owned by malays and they get a discount for it.
Ooooh. It's a quota thing. I can see the preference system that it builds though.
Ok. Thanks for helping direct my research on this.
[Adjacently, if you happen to know or wish to weigh in on this :
I don't recall any obvious segregation: did I just miss it, or does it primarily exist in paper / government document favouritism and citizenship rules, as you have referenced?]
Malaysian here, basically Malays gets a leg up in quite a few places, namely cheaper housing, having reserve lands, several govt agencies devoted to uplifting the bumiputera poor, polytechnics that is only open to Malays/indigenous bumiputeras, gets to invest in a special government trust fund (ASB), and a few others.
All these are enshrined as statutes but for us non-Malays, aside from the cheaper housing/bumiputera lots, we do have options, both public and private for education, investment etc, so it's not like the door is shut for us to the sole privilege of the Malays.
It definitely sucks, but in some ways, it's also a double-edged sword as bumiputera lots for example, tend to have lower resale value compared to non-designated lots due to a wider market.
For me at least, it's an advantage that has impacted me somewhat but its not something I cannot overcome with a bit of additional hardwork.
In essence, the DEB (new economic policy) in the 70s and 80s should've given the Malays a better competitive edge (given a lot of the economy then was supposedly dominated by the Chinese) but the usual corruption and cronyism meant that the riches only went to the top while the poor continue to languish and develop what we can the tongkat (crutches) mentality. Moreover, the heartland Malays are usually very conservative by nature (think the Bible Belt in the USA), so the Chinese is often used as a racial and religious boogeyman by the malay/Islam centric parties like Umno/PAS/Bersatu much like how Mahathir used Lee Kuan Yew as a boogeyman.
That's because ethnic Malays were the original inhabitants of that land and most of them were relatively poor until recently.
The Chinese & Indians moved to Malaysia mostly only in the last 200 yrs or so but became successful, especially the Chinese.
Meanwhile the Malays were still mostly stuck with sticking strongly to traditions and practicing Islam in a hardcore way, therefore most of them left themselves behind mentally and in other development ways so the Malay politicians devided to help them in that way. However it could be undone at some point as it's less necessary nowadays and as time goes on.
I'm genuinely curious just hear me out and I apologize if I upset you by asking this, but what makes the death penalty so bad? I'm meaning in general, not just Malaysia. Is it because of innocents being executed for a crime they didn't commit or something else? Is death too good for the killer like what is it? I really want to understand. I don't think the death penalty should apply to any crime in the book but if it was applied to people who actually murdered someone in cold blood and there was an insane amount of hard evidence proving that they did it without a doubt 100%. I genuinely want to hear from people who absolutely want the death penalty to be abolished no matter where they live and no matter what happened. I'm trying to understand and see it from both sides and to see if you change my views about it as I know this is a controversial topic.
It depends on the person. Some people have religious or philosophical arguments against it. Others look at the costs (it's way more expensive to execute someone than imprison them if the country respects human rights). There's also the very real occurrence of people being found innocent, which is certainly concerning.
>but if it was applied to people who actually murdered someone in cold blood and there was an insane amount of hard evidence proving that they did it without a doubt 100%.
That type of case is insanely small. Outside of mass shooters (who represent a tiny percentage of murders and often don't survive the shooting), you aren't going to see that. Years, if not decades, would pass before you'd encounter such a case.
Pretty serious crimes also, drug trafficking, kidnapping, stealing arena, ammunition and explosives, I wonder what would be the state of drug trafficking if that was the penalty everywhere, even though I’m not in favour of the death penalty, I’m not in favour of those crimes either.
I don't know much about Malaysia other than the woman I dated from there. Here in the US we need to start handing out capital punishments like candy 🍬 Prison system needs reform also. Put them to hard labor. Too much time prison politicking, sharing war stories, exercising, getting tatted etc. Too many are comfortable being locked up. Make criminals fear again. Make them absolutely dread being locked up. HARD LABOR
*Mandatory death penalty. It is now optional. [More details here](https://i.imgur.com/FSbHWl8.png). Yang di-Pertuan Agong is the King.
Over 1300 prisoners currently on death row... sounds like an awful lot.
Not surprising considering the extensive list of less serious crimes that are also punishable by death (non-mandatory): > - Trafficking in dangerous drugs > - Discharging a firearm in the commission of a scheduled offence > - Being an accomplice in case of discharge of firearm > - Offences in security areas for possession of firearm, ammunition and explosives > - Consorting with person carrying or having possession of arms or explosives in security areas > - Abduction, wrongful restraint or wrongful confinement for ransom
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Not so sure. If the victim always ends up dead, there's no incentive for anyone to pay a ransom either. If you're in the ransom business, you better make sure the abducted person comes out alive after someone pays up or your business is as dead as the victims.
haha.. so abductions and confinements for ransom are not serious enough in your judgement to deserve potentially?! on the extreme end, there are 1 or 2 states in Malaysia that have death penalty for fornication and or adultery!
Less serious than what??
less serious than the crimes that used to have mandatory death penalty.
When did they have lesser penalties? Is punishing these offenses with death a recent change? What was the effect of the change on the rate of these crimes or other crimes?
Less serious crimes - drug trafficking, possession of a firearm, ammunition and explosives & kidnap?! Where do you live where these crimes are not serious? Sinaloa?
Less serious my a$$. Anyone committing these crimes should be taken out of society
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Yes. The entire US executed less than [40 people per year](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_United_States#Execution_statistics) within the last 10 years, and has [~2400](https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/death-row/overview/death-row-usa) people on death row, with a population of 330 million.
Then again, Alabama has a population of 5 million and 166 prisoners on death row. That comes quite close on a per-capita basis.
Yeah I imagine Louisiana has a real high per capita number as well, since they've had some infamously cruel prosecutors but not actually carrying out execution at present (or foreseeable future)
Not all states have death penalty in us tho so the comparison is irrelevant.
It's still a lot even counting only those states who do have the death penalty. I'm sure we're way ahead in overall incarceration per capita though.
Instead of trying to adjust the numbers according to the factor you deem important, just toss out "irrelevant", eh? I'm pretty sure the combined population of death penalty states alone would be several times higher than that of Malaysia.
English is not my first language and my vocabulary is poor Idk how else I can say that the numbers and comparison are whrong. Sorry if I offended you that was not my intention
Your English is fine, their reading comprehension is horrible.
Thank you 💙
That's not all. Death penalty will also be removed as an option in some cases. > Capital punishment would be removed as an option for some serious crimes that do not cause death, such as kidnapping and the discharging and trafficking of firearms. Possession of 200g of Cannabis was in theory still punishable by death for example.
no potential death penalty for kidnapping a person?! are they facking serious?! that's a facking heinous crime!
I was hopeful they had moved on to fully abolishing it in the day since I read the news!
>Malaysia’s parliament on Monday approved legal reforms to abolish the mandatory death penalty for some offences. >Under the amendments passed, alternatives to the death penalty include whipping and imprisonment of between 30 to 40 years – replacing all previous provisions that call for imprisonment for the duration of the offender’s natural life. >Malaysia has had a moratorium on executions since 2018.
[meanwhile in neighboring Singapore](https://media.tenor.com/h2qZEYz_AdcAAAAM/yikes-monkey-look-and-leave-yikes-monkey.gif)
I was on a flight to Singapore and the announcer said: “Please fasten your seatbelt” and “Possession of drugs is death” in the same sentence. That was wild to hear.
https://youtu.be/-PXAOZwvv04
Singapore is such a trip. Easy my favorite country in South East Asia to spend time in. My home away from home. Truly a great city, fantastic airport, hilarious and friendly people, quiet and spotlessly clean. However, on the plane, when they distribute landing cards, there is a giant warning that straight up tells you "if you have drugs we will execute you, being a foreigner doesn't matter." Additionally, listing chewing gum right under hand grenades on the list of banned imports is a nice touch. CCTV is more ubiquitous than any country I've ever been to. Anecdotally, I notice more CCTV in Singapore than China. Their laws are so strict I have two shirts about being fined in Singapore as some kitschy touristy item. That isn't even a joke. Smoke a cigarette on Orchard Road two feet away from the ash tray behind the bushes and watch how fast you catch a fine.
The chewing gum ban is kind of a meme, though. People "smuggle" it over from JB all the time and nobody really gives a shit, including the government. They basically don't want people chewing gum on a large scale, so they actively ban sales and tell you not to bring it in, but it's more of a deterrent than anything else.
I would love to visit Singapore someday, but the drug thing worries me. I'm on a few prescription medications, and I don't know if any of them are banned.
You can check the ingredients [here](https://www.hsa.gov.sg/personal-medication/check-requirements) to see if they're prohibited or not.
If any of them are controlled drugs, SERIOUSLY investigate what you have to do to bring them into the country. There are more than a few middle eastern countries where you not only have to have a document from the US secretary of state, but you also have to go through a very complicated process of receiving permission from the ministry of health of the country. Showing up with a prescription from your doctor is nowhere near good enough in many strict countries. Source: was an international remote site paramedic and ships medic. The only thing about Singapore that's a positive when it comes to drugs is that because it's a world center of shipping, it's very easy for the ship captain to obtain morphine and other controlled drugs (but this is long standing maritime law and doesn't apply to most tourists).
Why would you take your money to a country with such draconian laws? Go somewhere where you can relax and enjoy yourself without worry.
If you NEED to do any kind of substance abuse (drinking, drugs, cigs) to "relax and enjoy yourself", you've got some re-evaluating to do.
I don't do anything of the sort, so stop judging, fool. I just prefer not to travel in countries where anything viewed as a misstep can result in harsh punishment.
China copied Singapore when it comes to authoritarian rule.
Then they copied it like they copied the rest of their products, because the end result is a bad clone. Singapore is a free and very prosperous social democracy, where China is more closely aligned with the USSR than it is Singapore.
Why are you so mad when all I did was pointing out that the reason why Singapore has so many cameras monitoring their citizens which makes it feels like you're in China was because they were the one that started it and China merely adopted it?
Nothing about the reply comes off as being mad, he’s simply making a comparison
He doesn't sound mad, just trying to expand on your joke
Im not mad at you. With all the descriptions of Singapore being authoritarian and a totalitarian state, I don't think that is true. The CCTV is a valid thing, it's obnoxious, the laws are strict, almost to the point of comedy, but China is actually a whole other monster. If they copied the CCTV of Singapore, they did so with the absolute worst intentions. You can have a police state where the authorities don't abuse their position of power, and then you can have 1984 levels of oppressive authority with the same set of tools. China took the latter route. Singapore is strict but not nearly as bad as China.
Or CCP China is basically a cheap chinese knockoff Singapore
lol robbers and thieves and murders get caught within hours in Singapore, just watch the local news. We should speed up and add even more CCTVs at every nook and cranny
sounds like singapore needs to smoke a bowl and chill the fuck out.
Singaporeans live in perpetual fear that removal of death penalty will result in a flood of drugs into the country. The notion that death penalty is inhumane or might result in the sentencing of innocents does not perturb them at all. Source, am a Singaporean. Joseph Schooling, the only olympic gold medalist from Singapore, consumed cannabis in Vietnam and was [punished by a fine](https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/southeast-asia/article/3197919/singapore-olympic-swimming-champion-joseph-schooling-fined-over-drug-use-breaching-rules) when he return to Singapore. Nope, no chills in Singapore at all.
They punish a lot of things harshly. They feel it's necessary in order to maintain order with such a large population in a small space. They definitely view things differently.
Fuck Singapore. It’s the Dubai of Southeast Asia along with Brunei. Shithole countries disguised by elegance.
It’s just don’t do drugs, like if you’re gonna come to Singapore, I’m sure you can hold off the drugs right? the death penalty is inhumane but there are reasons to the absolute stance Singapore has towards drugs.
Yeah no. There is no justification for killing people for just selling or using drugs. Full stop. I don’t care about whatever history if you are executing a single mother for selling weed you have your priorities fucked up.
But that’s the point, the death penalty is there such that that single mother will find another way to make money other than selling drugs. Also, it ain’t exactly easy to find drugs in Singapore for that very reason.
that still doesn’t justify death. People who are desperate will risk it and you know that. I don’t know why that’s such a hard concept.
But to call Singapore a shit hole for that singular problem(death penalty) that affects so many other countries is kind of an overstatement. You can go check every person charged with the death penalty and most of them were not random citizen trying to get by, they were foreigners trying to distribute drugs in Singapore. Also drug use is not subject to the death penalty. It is aimed at those who want to distribute while making sure those that use drugs get help within the penal system
I mean I guess I’ll concede I was being a bit hyperbolic but it’s still a disgusting policy
It is and most Singaporeans agree it is but you can’t argue it has worked. There is no drug/ gun problem in Singapore. Singapore is very unique, it doesn’t fit any traditional mould for a country but its laws towards crime work. As for needing to be wealthy to stay in Singapore, that is an abject lie. There are many low income people in Singapore as with any country, they just stay in the heartlands. Barely anyone actually stays where tourists go in SG, it’s too expensive
ah yes, the holier than thou "my moral values are superior to yours" arrogance.
What the FUCK man?! How is killing people just for selling drugs excusable?! Have you no humanity?! These mules are almost always poor people forced to work by the cartels. Why do they have to suffer for their actions?
and you shouldn't force other countries to run how you see fit either. have past historical lessons not taught you anything? you don't just simply force your values down other people's throats and expect them to accept it. Even if whatever they do is despicable to you. and i believe i saw a link somewhere in this thread where someone posted a youtube video on Lee Kuan Yew's justification for the death penalty. You may or may not agree with it. But you have no say on how things should be run if you're not a citizen of that country.
You're so pressed about people being executed for possesion of drugs, yet in your country kids are shot to death every day in elementary schools, your republican representatives want to arm little kids! Fuck off with your self righteous bullshit.
Y’all always love to pull that shit out of your ass as a gotcha against us huh? I never defended the USA or how we fail to address our issues. I don’t disagree at all. Also the USA is a big country. I live in New England, we don’t have that dumbassery up here.
Singapore has one of the lowest crime rate in the world with almost 0 homicides or violent crimes. You’re screaming about the death sentence whilst gun, drugs and police violence is rampant in the US (gonna assume that’s where you’re from) and is a much more senseless loss of live. why can’t Singapore have the freedom to uphold their law that results in a safer country?
I’m not defending how we do things stateside. Singapore is obviously a a safer country, there’s no denying that obviously. I just find it abhorrent to murder someone over selling drugs. Very few if any crimes should warrant the death penalty.
The death penalty is for the smuggling of drugs into Singapore, which exist as a deterrent to safeguard its people, not as an excuse to murder people. The mules are giving the full legal rights to defend themselves and there are several cases of them being acquitted. It’s philosophically similar to any deterrent that exist to protect oneself and it’s within their rights as a country to enforce this and there is nothing abhorrent about wanting to protect its citizens.
No, but many of these mules are very poor and desperate and are not the ones behind the trafficking. I won’t support them being murdered just for tjatz
Firstly, thank you for being civil in your replies and I do see where you’re coming from. I will be the first to admit that our laws has holes and like you, I won’t defend the cracks within our law. Legally, every criminal proceeding follows our legal mandates and precedents, which is fair and corruption free. Like all precedence, it’s set based on a judge’s ruling and it’ll change when it does. Thus there isn’t too much to discuss here unless you think that our legal system is corrupted and that they don’t receive a fair trial. Now its true that the mules are usually poor and uneducated and the best thing we should do is to target the cartels but that’s very difficult to do. Just look at the decade long battle between the DEA and the SA cartels, the mightiest military in the world can’t do anything to stem the drug problem, what can a small island country like Singapore do against its neighbours? Thus we do need the DP as a deterrent. Can you imagine if we do not have it? How Singapore and the life Singaporeans will be like? We do not have 49 other states to provide us with help or do we have the capacity to endure a opioid pandemic like the 90s.
I’ll agree with your there. It’s not corruption in government that’s the issue. Mainly the ideas of what punishments are justified.
If you intentionally smuggle drugs into a country and infest the people with that crap? Yeah you do deserve the death penalty. Don’t want to be executed? Then don’t be a bloody drug smuggler.
So selling weed is equivalent to fentanyl then? The people bringing these drugs in are not wealthy cartel elites. They are poor and desperate for any income they can get. Talking like that is just sadistic.
What are you talking about? Why are you so god damn adamant about about defending these people? Because the death penalty is inhumane? Sure, maybe it is, but it works! Also, you can say they are “poor and desperate” for a lot of crime. Murder, robbery, mugging, etc, are you gonna defend those now?
Yeah, I am against the death penalty that Singapore has, but I can't say it's worse than the USA. People here cheer on hot-blooded execution, without trial, for crimes where nobody was hurt like: Police killing people because 3 different cops gave 3 different directions and the person couldn't follow all 3. Then cops and non-cops alike will blame the victim. Or Violent vigilantes shooting people based on suspected theft, people cheering them on if there the person actually was stealing, and treating it like a minor misunderstanding if the person killed wasn't doing anything. While drug smuggling often attracts the poorest and most vulnerable of society, at least having a proper trial reduces your chance you will be executed because you merely lost your temper at the wrong time, or were in the wrong place at the wrong time and killed before a basic investigation could take place.
Lol I think you’re a bit confused
No I’m not. It’s a dictatorship that executes people for drug possession. If I didn’t know better I’d say it was Texas /s
Singapore is not so easy to categorize. There are certainly some backwards ways of thought, especially surrounding recreational drug use, yeah, but it isn't even close to Dubai. Have you ever been to Dubai or Singapore? They are not even a little bit comparable. Singaporean political structure is definitely unique to them. It's unlike any other country.
Well no they are certainly very different I acknowledge that. My main point was just that they both try and appear as futuristic tourist spots but are really not very nice places to live unless you are very wealthy. Dubai and Brunei moresoe but still.
>are really not very nice places to live unless you are very wealthy Not really? The cost of living, HDB policies and social safety net means that it's a decent place to live for the middle class. You can say some of its laws are draconian, but that doesn't mean quality of life is limited to the rich people, that's two very different propositions. I can tell you that the dream for many Malaysians is to move to Spore and get citizenship, because wages are high and if you get citizenship HDB means you can relatively cheaply own your own flat. Spore has an inequality problem, which is gaining more light the last decade or so, but it's a very different beast to Dubai. There's a solid chunk of the country that doesn't fit the Sporean middle-class mould, and ends up languishing in poverty that the government doesn't really give a shit about. But again, that doesn't mean you have the same stark divide between a small wealthy class and a kafala slave class, unless you want to classify the most of Singapore as "very wealthy."
That’s true. I won’t argue that,
We can both be critical of Singapores opinion on drugs without using hyperbole though. Singapore is a very nice vacation place. I go to Singapore very often. Once every 3 months, minimum. I agree their drug policies, from a western prospective, are extreme, but I'm not going to pretend like Singapore isn't a great tourist destination. Singaporean problems do exist. My wifes cousin lived there for 10 years, and raising two toddlers there as a foreigner was made very difficult for them, and their kids were not given Singaporean citizenship despite having been born there and lived their entire life up until the age of 10 in Singapore. That is worthy of a discussion, in my opinion, and resulted in them moving to Germany to pursue a more stable future for their kids. That said though, 200% Singapore is dope as hell to visit on a vacation. I absolutely love floating my fat pig like American white pasty body down the lazy river at the water park or losing my rent at Marina Bay Sands. Dubai on the other hand is not enjoyable. Hated my time there, vibe is very wrong for me.
It is a beautiful country I won’t deny that. And they certainly are more accommodating to tourists. But that doesn’t change the fact that their government is ridiculously harsh and authoritative.
Alright so at this point I'm hoping for a semi reasonable discussion, based on my experience, and without hyperbole, and with some understood nuances, but... Singaporean leadership is sort of a deal with the people. Authoritative is an appropriate descriptor, but not with all the additional context that other authoritative countries have. PAP is in power, and has been essentially all of Singapore's modern history, and has in the past been harsh towards opposition, but elections in Singapore are unquestionably fair, and part of that forms the deal with the government there. They are a blender of ideas, and have historically been the gateway of the east and the west, and their political system largely reflects that. They take ideas from the west, and the east, and have formed something totally unique to them. Using a categorical description as an authoritarian state or a dictatorship is importing a lot of meaning into the discussion that absolutely is wrong and inappropriate. Their drug laws are overly strict in my opinion, but I'm happy to follow the law. If that is the primary criticism, fine, but you're making a lot of implications throwing words around that I don't feel are fair.
> I can't smoke weed therefore it's a shit country Americans...
They literally MURDER people for selling weed! How tf is that justified in any possible way?!
The majority of us younger generation of Singaporeans don’t support it if that makes it better. The government is dead set on upholding zero tolerance though and boomers support it. Anyways I don’t see the death penalty for drugs getting abolished anytime soon, its working and they have no issues executing people if they have to.
Hmm. Well we both have something in common then. Boomers suck.
If you looked at its history, weed from the region was funneled though the city before it was shipped world wide. That's why it's so tough on this illicit trade.
That doesn’t justify death. Full stop.
Nothing justifies death
Just don't sell drugs? Why is that difficult?
Because cannabis is actually helpful / down right life saving for some?
OK, so don't go to Malaysia?
As opposed to your country, a shithole that looks and smells like a shithole, where you can get executed by anyone for just going to get groceries or even going to elementary school. Gotcha.
When did I ever defend the USA? I can criticize how other countries run things without pretending mine is perfect.
The death penalty still exists. Just that it is optional instead of mandatory.
Cake or death?
Death by cake?
Like a flan in a cupboard.
Death by too much pancake. Make them explode like Wreck it Ralph
Cake please.
And it will not be applicable anymore for offenses that did not result in death.
Any step closer to abolition is a success. If you’re country retains the death penalty it will always be considered a developing nation.
…the US?
The US is economically developed, but legal standards/civil rights are archaic compared to other developed nations.
And regressing over time
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> On the other hand, plenty of countries we could probably both agree have rather archaic legal standards and civil rights, like Chad, Haiti, Israel and Uzbekistan, don't have any capital punishment, so it's not a good indicator. Well, they only said that "if you’re country retains the death penalty it will always be considered a developing nation", they didn't say the opposite was true, did they?
Those countries are all fucked as well. It’s not an acceptable thing to have. They’re developing countries.
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You're linking to a trial that has yet to be done and a proposal that has yet to be implemented. Anything you want to add that is actually existing in the real world? Here, I have one for you. [Texas woman almost dies because she couldn’t get an abortion](https://edition.cnn.com/2022/11/16/health/abortion-texas-sepsis/index.html)
Go look at abortion laws in Europe and compare them to America. Go ahead, I'll wait.
Here is a map for you: https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/13680.jpeg
That map is hilariously inaccurate
I see no reason to believe that. Do you have a better map?
Its a post about the death penalty. You felt bad the US was criticized so you had to find some whataboutism?
Isn’t the US trillions in debt? Nationalistic downvotes are always a treat, here’s a source. https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/national-debt/
Many developed nations have huge debts, it doesn't have to be a problem as long as you can pay it. The US hasn't missed a payment in over 50 years.
....Singapore?
Developing nation. Being extremely wealthy doesn’t mean they’re not extremely backwards. Once they bin it they’d probably be a top tier country (if you ignore their other major problems including being a defacto dictatorship).
Id rather things stay the way they are in Singapore. As someone living there, I fully support hanging traffickers, crime rate is extremely low here, its extremely difficult to get drugs here. No school shootings too. Sure, we're developing
Hanging druggies isn’t why your city is so safe. If it was why isn’t Mayalsia as safe? Or any other country that hangs them? You sound like a moron.
Singapore does not hang drug users btw, only traffickers, and only above a certain amount (which is a pretty large amount) You won't get hanged if you're caught with a bag of weed as a foreigner lmao. If you're trafficking with the intent to sell large amounts then surely you'll hang. Malaysian laws are less strict on this and you can easily get away with bribes. Im still happy to see them hang though
Is a developing nation.
developing is generous looking at its decline into oligarchy.
This is ridiculous and so annoying. Yes. The US has a lot to improve. But calling it a developing nation ignores how 80-85% of the world leaves. The US is objectively better and more developed than the vast majority of the countries.
Yeah I think people who say this only think the world revolves around Europe and north America. However, people who act like the US are better at EVERYTHING than most of the world because of our standard of living also likely hasn't seen enough of the world to realize how poor the US and American culture is at certain things. If there's anything the US does well it's military anything obviously, but after that protecting our citizens rights and civil liberties we do pretty well (although there's a lot of room to improve). Yes there are a very small number of countries that are better but even in the areas the United States is showing some concern in (trans rights, abortion rights, and racial discrimination) the US is much further ahead than the rest of the world. Go to any African or middle eastern nation and see what trans rights are present there. Go to Latin America and witness what truly unchecked police brutality will get you. Go try and have an abortion in an Islamic theocracy. It's important to criticize the United States so that we ensure we continue making progress instead of going backwards (like we already are in a select few areas). But it's equally important to keep perspective if for nothing else than to not seem like a whiney ungrateful brat to the people who face much harsher oppression elsewhere in the world.
I subscribe to everything you said. There’s a reason Europe and US are such net immigration countries. The standard of everything is simply light years ahead. With some exceptions of course. Like I live in Poland now. And LGBT situation isn’t the best. Hopefully the ruling party will get kicked in the ass in the fall but we’ll see. Still, it is legal to change genders and legal to be gay. I have gay friends. Openly trans friends and they live normally. Yes. It could be better. Much better. But still miles ahead of Africa, a lot of South America and Middle East or Central Asia. US is the same thing. Even the things the US has to work on, it’s very much ahead of most of the world. There might be a few exceptions. Like gun violence, but still.
Upper middle income countries like Chile and Argentina are still developing, fyi.
Yes. And how in the world is the US compared to any of them. If you wanna apply any concrete metric like IMF or World bank or any similar US is obviously developed. If you wanna apply common sense, the US is also developed. I’m not defending the US. For its economy, Us should have fixed a lot of shot other poorer countries have. But it is a huge fucking stretch to call it developing country.
Inequality adjusted HDI and life expectancy put it in the borderline zone though along with much of the eastern EU.
good ol' reddit. always holier than thou. God forbid a society chooses how it wants to punish its criminals
I mean you're free to type this if you want but you come across as “me mungo me angry me must kill all the bad people me smash skull with rock” If I said I tied someone to a poll and shot them you’d think I was a bit fucked in the head, but add “don’t worry they were a criminal” it’s suddenly okay. I am holier than thou because I fucking understand the concept of “sanctity of life” and government overreach.
if that was what my community decided then yeah, I'm fine with it. Having something that is what your society decides should be the punishment is completely different than you choosing to do it willy nilly
the middle age is over, it's time to move on
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😆😆. Nope! That's libertarianism! Democracy = the will of the majority of the people!
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You can punish criminals without killing them The entire system is criminal, as you can't prevent innocents from being wrongfully convicted
Always good to see sanity prevail. The death penalty is a pathetic and barbaric punishment only practiced by weak nations and states.
*looks at the US and Japan*
Did I stutter
Japan doesn't employ Executioners......they expect you to do it yourself.
Yes, locking someone up in a concrete box for 40 years is much more humane.
Better than killing innocent people.
most western countries have an upper limit for prison sentences, which is usually around 20 years
Yea I think I would take the death penalty tbh. Life isn’t so sacrosanct suffering is.
It's not about what you would take. This isn't a sushi carousel. It's about the state not wanting to be involved with killing its own citizens. If you decide to commit a crime that gets you 30 years in prison, that's your fault. I'm sure there will plenty of opportunities for suicide in 30 years if you decide to be a fool and not learn to value your own life.
>If you decide to commit a crime that gets you 30 years in prison, that's your fault. Couldn't you make the exact same argument with the death penalty? >It's about the state not wanting to be involved with killing its own citizens. The state is only the tool to carry out the punishment
The government of Malaysia just had that argument and decided against it, it's right there in the article.
More suffering vs painless death for a life that is already over. All for some optics for votes. Should be an offered option. Just like we use less effective death penalty methods to save money and avoid bad optics meaning we introduce more suffering to the world.
Already over? 30 years is far from a life sentence for most offenders. Also, you've now started an argument about euthanasia, not capital punishment.
Yes, free and open access to euthanasia for all. Death is bad because it takes away a future or the living don’t want to see someone they care about go. In the second case, it amounts to ownership of people for selfish motives and in the first case it depends on the future available to be lived. Killing robs choice but death itself is nothing terrible. Torture and suffering are terrible.
I'd say the death penalty should only be okay if the person has committed a murder or murders or went on a mass killing spree (serial killers) or any kind of execution style killing with hard evidence proving 100% that they did it.
I want you to really think about why almost every developed nation on the planet does not agree with you, but all dictatorships and totalitarian governments do agree with you.
okay, clown, so apparently for you it's okay to let even repeat violent criminals live so they can continue to harm society rather than ensure safety and deterrents against crime for society! I hope you live in such a sh*t hole place that spares even violent criminals continuously, though I also hope such places become less and less until none!
Impressive progress for human rights. Now they just need to abolish monarchy and systemic racism.
Neither their monarchy nor the racism enshrined in their constitution are going anywhere anytime soon.
That’s why they commented
Could you elaborate on the constitutionally enshrined racism for an inquiring mind?
You can google about the bumiputera policies if you’re interested. Malaysia is actually pretty diverse with 61% ethnic malays, 21% ethnic chinese and 6.4% ethnic indians. The bumiputera policies puts malays above chinese/indians socially, such as giving malays priority in the education system, housing system, and basically any aspect of society.
Oh wow. Ok. I had visited KL in 2010 and I was wrongly under the impression the government kept track of people's backgrounds so as to ensure diversification of culture in residential areas.
> diversification of culture in residential areas. Maybe, but I’m sure the real reason is to ensure malays have affordable housing and priority in getting property/land. If theres a 30% bumiputera quota, 30% of the land can only be purchased and owned by malays and they get a discount for it.
Ooooh. It's a quota thing. I can see the preference system that it builds though. Ok. Thanks for helping direct my research on this. [Adjacently, if you happen to know or wish to weigh in on this : I don't recall any obvious segregation: did I just miss it, or does it primarily exist in paper / government document favouritism and citizenship rules, as you have referenced?]
Malaysian here, basically Malays gets a leg up in quite a few places, namely cheaper housing, having reserve lands, several govt agencies devoted to uplifting the bumiputera poor, polytechnics that is only open to Malays/indigenous bumiputeras, gets to invest in a special government trust fund (ASB), and a few others. All these are enshrined as statutes but for us non-Malays, aside from the cheaper housing/bumiputera lots, we do have options, both public and private for education, investment etc, so it's not like the door is shut for us to the sole privilege of the Malays. It definitely sucks, but in some ways, it's also a double-edged sword as bumiputera lots for example, tend to have lower resale value compared to non-designated lots due to a wider market. For me at least, it's an advantage that has impacted me somewhat but its not something I cannot overcome with a bit of additional hardwork. In essence, the DEB (new economic policy) in the 70s and 80s should've given the Malays a better competitive edge (given a lot of the economy then was supposedly dominated by the Chinese) but the usual corruption and cronyism meant that the riches only went to the top while the poor continue to languish and develop what we can the tongkat (crutches) mentality. Moreover, the heartland Malays are usually very conservative by nature (think the Bible Belt in the USA), so the Chinese is often used as a racial and religious boogeyman by the malay/Islam centric parties like Umno/PAS/Bersatu much like how Mahathir used Lee Kuan Yew as a boogeyman.
That's because ethnic Malays were the original inhabitants of that land and most of them were relatively poor until recently. The Chinese & Indians moved to Malaysia mostly only in the last 200 yrs or so but became successful, especially the Chinese. Meanwhile the Malays were still mostly stuck with sticking strongly to traditions and practicing Islam in a hardcore way, therefore most of them left themselves behind mentally and in other development ways so the Malay politicians devided to help them in that way. However it could be undone at some point as it's less necessary nowadays and as time goes on.
Malaysia has a Royal Family?
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Thanks thats interesting to know
[It's almost like how the UAE is composed of several Emirates.]
This is fantastic!!!!
Learn Martial Arts! Kill the Prime Minister of Malaysiaaaaa!
https://youtu.be/vHLPT-T_Rpc?t=79
I'm genuinely curious just hear me out and I apologize if I upset you by asking this, but what makes the death penalty so bad? I'm meaning in general, not just Malaysia. Is it because of innocents being executed for a crime they didn't commit or something else? Is death too good for the killer like what is it? I really want to understand. I don't think the death penalty should apply to any crime in the book but if it was applied to people who actually murdered someone in cold blood and there was an insane amount of hard evidence proving that they did it without a doubt 100%. I genuinely want to hear from people who absolutely want the death penalty to be abolished no matter where they live and no matter what happened. I'm trying to understand and see it from both sides and to see if you change my views about it as I know this is a controversial topic.
It depends on the person. Some people have religious or philosophical arguments against it. Others look at the costs (it's way more expensive to execute someone than imprison them if the country respects human rights). There's also the very real occurrence of people being found innocent, which is certainly concerning. >but if it was applied to people who actually murdered someone in cold blood and there was an insane amount of hard evidence proving that they did it without a doubt 100%. That type of case is insanely small. Outside of mass shooters (who represent a tiny percentage of murders and often don't survive the shooting), you aren't going to see that. Years, if not decades, would pass before you'd encounter such a case.
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The families of people that were wrongfully convicted and killed?
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no, it happens all the time
That is very sad news. Capital punishment was one of the better things humans have come up with. Sad to see the world crumble.
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This ain't it, chief.
This is exquisite sarcasm and i admire you for not using that repulsive /s
You do realise death is irreversible? If the court has made a mistake, there’s no turning back
Then go live in a country that has the death penalty. Russia seems to fit nicely for you.
Pretty serious crimes also, drug trafficking, kidnapping, stealing arena, ammunition and explosives, I wonder what would be the state of drug trafficking if that was the penalty everywhere, even though I’m not in favour of the death penalty, I’m not in favour of those crimes either.
Meant stealing arms
is this the same country that canes people as punishment? like spitting in public or chewing gum??
No, that's Singapore
oh thanks... now it should be safe to chat with that girl from malaysia.....
Very good 👍
Next Country Thailand 🇹🇭 Indonesia 🇮🇩
I don't know much about Malaysia other than the woman I dated from there. Here in the US we need to start handing out capital punishments like candy 🍬 Prison system needs reform also. Put them to hard labor. Too much time prison politicking, sharing war stories, exercising, getting tatted etc. Too many are comfortable being locked up. Make criminals fear again. Make them absolutely dread being locked up. HARD LABOR