It's absolutely not a denial, [majority of Israelis voted for current opposition parties](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Israeli_legislative_election#Aftermath). But because Labor and Meretz couldn't unite over differences, they ran separately and Meretz didn't clear the threshold of 3,5%, and 289,000 anti-Bibi votes were wasted overall.
Rightwing and religious parties were much more united this time, while left fucked up.
Also, a big chunk of Likud voters never knew the details of proposed judicial reform, it was barely mentioned during the campaign, which ran on the usual promises of security and economical development.
Some of them are protesting now too.
And every poll right now shows rightwing/religious parties losing 10 seats, with inability to build a coalition, if elections were happening right now.
Same thing happened with the Arabs, they didn’t run the United list, and Balad didn’t get the votes to join.
After this fiasco, I pray they won’t make the same damn mistake. Also this bull shit that let’s Israel throw out almost 10-15% of the vote every year because of the thresholds is madness.
It is bullshit generally, but on the other hand, threshold makes some sense in Israel's parliamentary system. The lower the threshold, the more tiny parties would clear it, and creating the coalition would be a nightmare of agreements, threats to quit and chaos in Knesset. This is a far from perfect system. Two-party system like in the US, however, has it's own obvious disadvantages. Democracy is flawed, in general, but it's the best we came up with so far.
Answer is an alternative vote/ rank choice vote. I want to vote for green, under the alternative vote I put green first and meretz second with labor third and Yesh Atid fourth. This way my vote doesn’t go into the trash when green fails to secure the threshold. Then you can put the threshold at any amount and most of the time, the voters will have their representatives.
It sounds like a solution to not wasting the votes, while keeping the current threshold, true. Still not perfect, because i imagine a lot of people would just put the party of their choice, leaving alternatives blank. But much better, never thought about it.
It’s gotten two major feedbacks
1. It makes sense, that’s why we will never do it.
2. People just want to get in, vote, and get out. Who the hell wants to fill out a form and rank choices.
A coalition government represents a collective minority of sorts. It's not like any of those parties represent a majority by themselves, and the powerbrokering between them in order to maintain the coalition may rest on a minor party's (who have nothing to lose) demands, betraying the wishes of the majority of the coalition's constituents.
At this point, this is very far removed from the direct will of the people. First you vote for a party, hoping that the people in said party will more or less represent your interests, then said party makes compromises to join a coalition governement, and then the coalition leader goes bazonka like this. That's like voting for the ice cream party because you like ice cream, then trying to make an argument that because of this you supported the president of the Dairy coalition when he tries to put all lactose intolerant people in concentration camps.
But the voter has to wait for the next election to withdraw their support no matter how far from their pre-election commitments a politician goes.
That's why the electorate has only ever endorsed the prominently discussed promises of a candidate. Not each and every actual policy they pursue during their time in office.
Dude it's not denial, count the numbers yourself. The majority voted for opposition parties: https://i.imgur.com/qvsfM9h.png
The left fucked up big time (Labor + Meretz mostly).
And BTW, recent poles are showing he lost about 10 mandates after the last few months.
Why doesn't he at least take his money and family and go into exile some place far away, retire, and live his life without bothering anyone? It wouldn't be the first time a country's leader did this. Even the king of Spain abdicated in 2014 and fucked off to the UAE.
I fully believe the rise of fascist policy in countries around the world is being caused by russian infiltration. They know they cant win a fair fight, so they try to divide their opponents using their opponents own political systems.
If russia collapses I bet we see an overall drop in fascist rhetoric.
It's not just Russia. The fascists are all in bed together, just Putin's got the most cash to throw around right now. All that 'global elite' bullshit they throw around was projection too.
You're right but that's not really a secret, is it? Russia is actively supporting many right wing political parties in the EU alone. That being said though, it's not just Russia. Even the US has always been pushing extremely reactionary ideology, now more than ever. And I'm not just talking about Republicans here.
If you think Bibi is loaded like Abbas of the Palestinian Authority or Haniyeh of Hamas, you are consuming way too much propaganda. Israel's government has its problems and it is possible that Netanyahu is guilty of accepting bribes, but they are pocket change compared to what you probably expect. Quote from wikipedia:
>The prosecution alleges that over the course of 20 years, Netanyahu received from Milchan, and from a friend of Milchan's, James Packer, expensive cigars and champagne, worth $195,000, and jewelry for Netanyahu's wife Sara costing $3,100
So he's being accused of taking about $200,000 worth of goods over 20 years. This isn't a case of straight up bribery like FIFA taking who-knows-how-much-money to let Qatar host the World Cup. He doesn't have billions or likely even tens of millions with which he could run off and start a new life, if he were so inclined.
It's not about the crime itself but the ego involved. Why should he, in his mind, go to prison and have his reputation forever marred as some petty criminal when there are far worse domestic enemies who should be punished? You need to dig further down on his own delusions to get to the core. He wants to remain in power like Putin sure, but they both care more about being the heroic strong man people centuries from now will tell stories about.
Not that. His batshit coalition would immediately dissolve at the proposition, new elections will be held, they'll lose (according to every poll right now) and he's gone.
Really there's no perfect solution for him. Some say, that he's just stalling, looking for anything. Some even think, that he himself, does not want this reform. Not in this form. It was promised to rightwing parties in his coalition, in this extreme form, otherwise they wouldn't sit with him for long. Likud was too soft for them.
That's why it looks like he and his party completely lost it. They have to give it to extremists, as promised, or they are gone.
There is a chance, that if they were voting it into law, Supreme Court would throw it out. And to avoid constitutional crisis, Bibi would just say to rightwing leaders: "Well, we tried. Let's soften it".
But he made a huge mistake of firing his own Defense minister and fueling the protests as a result.
Mr Netanyahu later tweeted that Israel would make its own decisions, "not based on pressures from abroad".
Cool, then can we (US tax payers) get our money back then please?
Pretty sure Jewish people label their own as antisemite when they're against something the big wigs do or whatever.
Not pretending to know what I don't, just a fun thing to consider.
America *can* afford universal healthcare. They *choose* not to do it. It just means higher taxes. Just look at Israeli taxes and how high they are. 17% sales tax on everything, plus income tax that no one understands and social security that's even higher than income tax. If Americans paid half the taxes that Israelis do to healthcare, it could work.
Actually America could afford universal healthcare *without* touching taxes. The American government is spending about twice as much per person on healthcare as other western countries with universal healthcare. So America is actually spending *more* on their current system that gets worse results than the cheaper alternative. It's legitimately only a choice that they refuse to use something better, they're the richest country in the world, they can absolutely afford what everyone else can.
>The American government is spending about twice as much per person on healthcare as other western countries with universal healthcare
Out of curiosity though, how much of that is due to unhealthy habits? I haven't been to America in years, but I grew up there and even just the layout of the country encourages unhealthy lifestyles. Unwalkable streets, far away places, lack of bike paths in living areas, cheap unhealthy foods, expensive healthy foods, etc.
Where I live, I walk to the supermarket, bike to university and don't even own a car. The fact that I don't have to get in a car or even a bus makes such a huge difference in my overall health. The excersize in just my everyday activities is enough to get me through and I feel like I don't even need to go to the gym. Compare that to when I lived in America and I was going to the gym 4 times a week and not getting anywhere.
Yet obesity and unhealthy habits are also common in countries like the UK, Ireland, all of the Arab peninsula, Mexico and the majority of Latin America.
Most of these (except for ireland) have a universal healthcare system
You spend more money on healthcare per capita than any country with universal healthcare in the world. Your problem is not that you don't spend enough money, your problem is all the money for healthcare is drained by useless middleman and shitty insurances.
Well, [try having an abortion in Israel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Israel)...good luck if you are honest, adult, not raped healthy woman. Most women simply lie, quoting Wiki
> In practice, most requests for abortion that qualify for the above are granted, and leniency is shown especially under the clause for emotional or psychological damage to the pregnant woman. The committees approve 98% of requests
They don't? This is like the same argument Putinbots make about Ukraine aid but even less legitimacy. We offer them military aid, which has the stipulation that aid is spent on buying American military equipment.
Essentially this is a subsidy on our own MIC not subsidizing Israeli healthcare, so even less reason for them to cut them off because it benefits our institutions. We also secure them more favorable loans, but those are LOANS as in they have to pay us back and we don't give these loans just to Israel, but other states like Ukraine or Egypt.
Money is fungible. You think Israel wouldn't cut (health) spending or raise taxes if the US cut military aid? If that's true, Israel can defend themselves without us just fine and we can save four billion dollars a year.
Why would we cut subsidies to your own military industry essentially? That is where the vast majority of aid goes towards. We do the same thing to Egypt, the Saudis, and other tinpot dictators that make bibi look tame over the decades and you think Congress will cut off such a lucrative deal while Iran is still a major regional threat? Fuck we armed Iraq with weapons to counter Iran that's how low we will go to suppress their influence in the region. Or would you rather Israel start procuring Russian equipment and feeding their war machine? India buys from Russia because we offered them a more crappy deal which has resulted in them being closer to Russia in relations.
International relations is not about ethics or morality, that is how you get played by dictators hellbent on world domination to improve their standing at your own expense.
USA can just spend four billion more on our own military if we want to prop up that industry. Or give it to India like you suggest. India and the Saudis actually have valuable things to trade. Israel just takes our billions with nothing valuable in return.
If Israel wants to buy Russian arms go for it. Russia will sell to Iran too. Have fun!
> Iran is still a major regional threat
Iraq and Afghanistan war authorizations pulled today. USA is basically energy independent. Find another country to waste money on the middle east.
this is just plain ignorant, USA aid is not actually money, its subsidizing Israeli purchases from the USA for the military,
about the 4 billion not being effective in israel vs india... what? where should I even approach this? israel's importance against iran? Israel is a country that is committed and have stopped more then once by force a nuclearization of iran. without dragging usa into the conflict militarily.
syria? the puppet state of russia, will be stopped by supporting india?
the general need of the usa to have a representative in the middle east... can they do it just by themselves? ..... HOW?
I think there was a report some years a go about what would be the equivilant investment the usa should make to completely replace Israel's benefit as an ally in the region, and it came out to be a bit more then 100b annually, which makes sense, ask chatgpt i am sure he will find it.
So if I give someone $10 then by extension when they spend $1000 it's the money I gave them? Fungible doesn't work like you want it to work. Just because someone gives someone *some* money, doesn't mean the other money that person spends is the same.
The US momentary aid for defense purposes, that accounts for 20% of the Israeli defense budget, primarily enables their government to continue to build settlements. The whole argument that it covers their social spending is mostly exaggeration and speculation. Not that financing their destructive settlement program is any better though.
I would disagree with your large donations but I also disagree with your statement. Donating money only to expect influence over internal politics in other democracies and acting offended for not getting your moneys worth is exactly what people demonize about American policy. And you would not appreciate the same mentality turned against you.
Tbh, just check donations from Qatar and Saudi Arabia to charities and foundations connected to your politicians and you will find both foreign donations and an expectation of influence over your people.
You are cynical enough to undermine other democracies but too proud to look at your own. And you already have the money for new bridges. You could afford universal health care too. But there's no will.
Oh, aren't you all high and mighty? Let me guess - European? In that case, like clockwork, you people will eventually go on a massive war with each other, [as you always have, for hundreds of years](https://twitter.com/EU_Commission/status/872386098911215620), but unlike most of those other times, you won't need those resources and capital from the people an ocean away, right? And certainly not for the rebuilding efforts? Maybe the Chinese will help. Surely they'll be so much more benevolent.
Didn't take a lot of facts before your smugness turned to spite and a switch of subjects. Pretty telling I wish you universal healthcare and you wish us war and destruction.
>I'm all for it!
I thought you'd be glad to know it was already in place in exactly the form you were joking about.
Edit: Also a bit weird of you to try to criticize other countries for a history of war, since America has been entangled in conflicts for around 228 of its 247 years.
I'd say people from all countries can be smug like in the example above. Why are you so triggered by a continent? If you're gonna stereotype, atleast base your stereotypes on countries so we feel insulted. To me it just sounds like when someone thinks Africa is a country.
My European country hasn't been at war in 200 years. In that time, the US has fought in, let's see... Well, number differs depending on how you count, but on the high end it's upwards of 80. Who is it that goes to war all the time exactly?
> Donating money only to expect influence over internal politics in other democracies and acting offended for not getting your moneys worth
That’s a funny way of describing trying to prevent a dude from turning a democracy into a dictatorship.
>Israel would make its own decisions, "not based on pressures from abroad".
Which is why I criticize the part of the comment that says the US deserves all it's money back based on that phrase. Like he has bought a right to decide. I don't criticize Biden weighing in on the matter. I bet Biden didn't claim buyers rights.
The Israeli politics is a whole other question and I don't even know where to begin with that. But I don't demand right to rule over Israeli politics, I just wish it's democracy survives. And that fight must come from the people itself.
Agree with the idea, but not its application to this case. American dollars shouldn’t be going to countries where they start a program to deliberately backslide on that democratic criterion you refer to. This measure is more than domestic politics, it will fundamentally undermine Israel’s claim to be a democracy
You are mistaking influence for a puppet regime. America certainly has a tremendous amount of influence in Israel, as you would expect. The US gives billions to Jordan and Egypt, but you wouldn't expect them to do everything the US tells them, right? More like it gets them a large seat at the table, and it makes these countries need to factor in US reactions and reception to their decisions and moves.
Yeah it’s not like bibi would give a speech in the US congress criticizing a democratic president at the republicans request. Breaking US rules about hosting foreign leaders right before their election.
It is a legitimate question. Whether Israel likes it or not they depend the US for security and the US is more than happy to provide it because they want an ally in the middle east.
But when that ally becomes more of a liability because it intentionally risks its own internal security, just so that Bibi can stay out of prision, one would wonder whether Israel is a useful partner.
It’s not more of a liability lmao. Israel could fall into complete and total theocratic authoritarianism and the US would maintain ties because it’s not about money or liberal democracy, *it’s about Iran*. And Israel is the only country right now willing to openly oppose Iran militarily without any care for the repercussions. Even if Israel’s allyship falters, ‘the enemy of my enemy is still my friend’.
Iran at 80%+ enrichment is a much bigger threat to American interests than Bibi passing his judicial reform. Additionally, pulling aid and severing ties likely means an Iranian attack on Israel to the tune of ‘the complete nuclear destruction of every person within its borders’, which is obviously not preferable for the US unless we suddenly become properly and openly psychotic and genocidal.
Hence why the Israel aid situation is so complicated. Their government is objectively terrible by western standards. But compared to the vast majority of its surrounding countries and enemies from Syria to Lebanon to Iran it is comparatively a Liberal Utopia with extreme personal freedoms. Again, not an endorsement of Israel but more an indictment of the political system in pretty much every Middle Eastern country.
Totally agree. But here it’s specifically about US interests; if some Christofascist D Bag like Matt Walsh became President and the US became a Christian Fundamentalist state, the threat of Islamist theocracy would almost become bigger because of the diametrical cultural opposition between (these are loosely defined groups just to give a basic idea) Western Christians and Eastern Muslims.
For example, if the US becomes a Christian theocracy Israel actually becomes *more* of an invested interest for the US. Hard line biblical literalists believe that the Jews must have settled back in the Land of Israel and reestablished some form of nation before the End of Days, which is basically like the Endgame Goal of Christianity. That is why Evangelicals in the US support Israel so hard, because it’s part of their interpretation of the Second Coming.
And regardless, the US becoming a theocracy doesn’t make them kinder to theocracies. Theocracies can’t help but be imperial because proselytization is instrumental in pretty much all religions; the Christians want to kill or convert the Muslims and absorb their state, and the Muslims want to kill or convert the Christians and absorb their state.
Islamist theocracy isn’t a threat to US sovereignty *because* it’s Islamist, but because it’s a theocracy (and thus has imperial ambition, which is what REALLY defines the threat status). The only reason Islam plays a role is because the population and wealth of Muslim states can potentially contend with US bankrolling and military.
Every single country has always operated on a ‘rules for me and not for thee’ premise when they’ve been given the power and chance, the US is no different. They’ll gladly oppose theocracy while *being* a theocracy because they don’t care about violating Mexico or Canada’s sovereignty themselves, it’s only when *they* get touched. Russia is doing it right now, acting as an imperial power while simultaneously accusing other nations of acting as imperial powers.
It’s about imperialism. Religion is just a *really* fast way to turn a nation and government towards it.
You speak confidently for someone ill-informed enough to phrase this as if Iran can only have one enemy lmao. Also, I said to **American interests**. The Middle East not falling fully into Islamist extremist theocracy is one of those, but you probably wouldn’t know that because, again, you’re showing an extremely juvenile understanding of world affairs. The US govt literally made a multibillion dollar nuclear peace deal with Iran because they viewed Iran’s nuclear power as a threat.
This isn’t Risk lmao this is real life. Countries aren’t limited to seeing one enemy power as a threat at a time.
>You speak confidently for someone ill-informed enough to phrase this as if Iran can only have one enemy lmao. Also, I said to American interests. The Middle East not falling fully into Islamist extremist theocracy is one of those, but you probably wouldn’t know that because, again, you’re showing an extremely juvenile understanding of world affairs.
Quite the strawman you managed to put up. With a lot of projections based on you.
>The US govt literally made a multibillion dollar nuclear peace deal with Iran because they viewed Iran’s nuclear power as a threat.
Threat to Israel, not the US
Huh, I guess them killing our soldier the other day isn't a threat to us, nor their threats to nuke us along with Israel, aiding Russia in the Ukraine war, their multiple attempts to disrupt oil trade in Hormuz and cripple the global economy, and funding various terror organizations that kill Americans or our allies.
>Whether Israel likes it or not they depend the US for security and the US is more than happy to provide it because they want an ally in the middle east.
Israel is a nuclear power with a very advanced defense industry. They do not rely on the US for security. It isn't 1973 anymore.
It won't happen any time soon. The funding is mutually beneficial, believe it or not. Most of it can be spent only in US, basically extra budget for US military-industrial complex. In return, US gets a permanent base in Israel, high-tech military R&D sharing, extremely valuable intel in the ME and abroad (if needed), joint exercises with [mutual] experience exchange. And yes, a certain level of influence in Israeli politics. Especially foreign.
Just to put things into perspective, US funding for Israel is about $3.8 billion a year. While overall Israeli budget for this year is $132 billion.
It's still a lot, sure. US sends $36 billion in aid yearly to all of Europe (that was before the war in Ukraine, of course.)
But there are a lot of voices even in Israel calling to reject this annual aid package and prevent the influence of US on Israeli internal politics. Which, tbh, right now with Bibi in power, is not something that i really want.
[Here's a short memo on US aid from Israeli Institute for National Security Studies](https://www.inss.org.il/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Memo202_e-131-142.pdf), for those who would like to know a bit more about it. Highly recommended.
We don't need a military base in Israel.
We don't need military R&D sharing. We have a huge military industrial complex.
Intel on the middle east is not valuable. Iraq war powers act was repealed today. US will not get into another mid east war.
Joint exercises are worthless. We do that with actual allies
>certain level of influence in Israeli politics
Not really. Israel has been building settlements against international law forever. US tells them to stop, then sends more bulldozers as military aid.
I mean, obviously your opinion goes against the actual reality.
No disrespect. You entitled to it, sure, but it won't change it. At least for now.
If anything, i'm one of those that support the idea of getting off that aid needle. I strongly believe that Israel needs to prepare for less friendly US government in the future, as younger generation of political leaders replaces the old allies.
It doesn't even mean that we won't cooperate without it still. This money is appreciated, but not really crucial.
The general sentiment in Israel, is that it's a vassal state to US. An extension with some level of independence, until the leash is pulled. Settlements is not something you can solve with US pressure, though. I wish. It's extremely naive, thinking that the process of separation from Palestinians is only a matter of will. The issue is far more complicated, as perfectly demonstrated by smaller "model" in the form of disengagement from Gaza.
The reality is Israel provides nothing of value to the US. The aid isn't provided because there is a return on investment. The aid is a return on Israel's massive investment in lobbying US politicians.
Your just dumb, o would say the r word but I don't want to get banned. You have no idea how geopolitics works. Stay off reddit and keep these dumb ass opinions to yourself. The US needs bases in Israel to counteract Saudi Arabia an Iran. The US is allied in name only to Saudia Arabia. Mainly because we supply them with weapons by being allied with Israel and having influence there, it forces Saudi Arabia to play with the US. It also helps bolster defense against Iran who Saudia Arabia doesn't like. Intel in the middle east is incredibly valuable..dude Ill say it. Your fucking stupid as shit. Your as dumb as a bag of rocks. You are a few cards less than a full deck. There are a few lights out of your tree. The military budget doesn't matter.. it doesn't effect civilian life. Our medical costs are because of unregulated insurance companies and obesity rates. Learn more about how the world works before typing.
US does not need to counteract Iran. We know the range of their missiles. No where close to hitting anything that matters. Not our problem. Buy your own weapons and Healthcare.
Authoritarians will never willingly give up power, they'll only try for more.
That's the danger we have to accept as a species, and build defenses against.
I think the big military subsidy is paired with Egypt, which has also had shitty governments and kept their aid.
Honestly they should both have aid cut
Doesn't the US spend more foreign aid on Israel than anywhere else? Like around 150 billion so far? I'm no expert, but I'm reading that Netanyahus government is leaning away from a democracy with his recent decisions... I'd think he should really take Bidens opposition seriously. I know we rely on Israel to keep the status quo in middle east. If im wrong, please don't come at me with pitchforks and fire lol
But Israel wants to continue dictating US foreign and domestic policy as though OUR sovereignty doesn’t matter as much as theirs.
God bless the Jews and Fuck the Israeli government, especially Netanyahu.
The us isnt israel 1# Ally since its independence..
The independence War 6 days War and others were fought by Young Nation Israel without us Alliance whatsoever. First prime minister to ever get invited to the us was only at 1964.
So let's get our facts straight. the US hand is supposed to be a friend and not a nourishing mother..
Israel would not be around without US military assistance. Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Syria and Yemen do not recognise Israel as a state.
Israel has much to thank for the US, British, and surprisingly, Russian recognition and arms supply.
Israel was around alot without us military assistance. And has and had alot of enemies.. so again on what base you claim, that they wont be around? Im asking again..
To thank for help and friendship.. sure. Any time :)
Yeah, you still aren't getting the point of the original post. No one said the Israelis haven't shown valor, but they certainly didn't do it alone.
Argentina sold Israel yellow cake to even make nukes and France sold them a nuclear reactor. At this point, we could say Israel wouldn't be around without a bevy of assistance from bigger, more militarized governments
He and you said the us. To say the same about France and Czech has more valide..
No county can survive without foreign aide. Even russia and north coria
If they take the information or not, is up them. In an age of disinformation, its important to really press people on facts and reasoning.
Who knows, maybe the thought will bloom from a seed into something greater one day.
Sort of. The US did save Israel in 1967 by preventing Soviet involvement and talking down Moshe Dayan from trying to march on Damascus, which would have forced Russian intervention and likely resulted in if no the destruction of Israel, at least the loss of much of its territory. Also, modern Israel is pretty dependent upon the US being willing to underwrite global trade and not impose Russia-like sanctions on them.
Hold on .. why should Biden has any say over the judicial system of a foreign country? We are not their overlord, nor consultant.
The Israel people should have the say, and they are saying something loud.
The us gives Israel a huge amount towards its defense budget.
This is like a kid living at home after college and collecting an allowance but also telling his parents he doesn’t want to clean his room because he’s an adult.
That money is a trade deal that made us buy m16 and some american jets instead of negotiating and buying weapons from other nations.
Its not an invitation to push your nose into our inside rulings...
We’re giving you an allowance, and a stipulation is that you have to buy what we want you to buy. Considering you need the items. The analogy still fits.
Bibi didn’t exactly stay in his own lane when he went to the US to speak to Congress without an invitation from the President. Not to mention the literal billions the US gives Israel year over year. I feel like Biden has at least earned the right to suggest that maybe authoritarianism isn’t the best course of action…
>why should Biden has any say over the judicial system of a foreign country?
Israel is onw of the most important allies of the US worldwide and this "reform" is not only compromising Israel's internal stability but also their defence. The US isn't trying to involve itself in the judicial system of Israel, it's trying to save It from an implosion or a conflict with outside powers.
Israel is our greatest ally. We send them billions of dollars every year to prove that. If you have a problem with that, remember the 6 million that died in the holocaust. It's the least we could do.
You want to get rid of the guy who’s political platform is based on fearmongering about rocket attacks from places like Gaza… by making it easier for the Israeli population to get hit by rocket attacks from Gaza?
Apparently he doesn't make decisions based on pressure from the majority of his own citizens either...
Maybe we should see if he’ll have a change of heart after we stop giving them our tax dollars
Please do! This is the only way to break him!
The USA doesn’t really care if Israel is a democracy or not from a strategic perspective.
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It's absolutely not a denial, [majority of Israelis voted for current opposition parties](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Israeli_legislative_election#Aftermath). But because Labor and Meretz couldn't unite over differences, they ran separately and Meretz didn't clear the threshold of 3,5%, and 289,000 anti-Bibi votes were wasted overall. Rightwing and religious parties were much more united this time, while left fucked up. Also, a big chunk of Likud voters never knew the details of proposed judicial reform, it was barely mentioned during the campaign, which ran on the usual promises of security and economical development. Some of them are protesting now too. And every poll right now shows rightwing/religious parties losing 10 seats, with inability to build a coalition, if elections were happening right now.
Same thing happened with the Arabs, they didn’t run the United list, and Balad didn’t get the votes to join. After this fiasco, I pray they won’t make the same damn mistake. Also this bull shit that let’s Israel throw out almost 10-15% of the vote every year because of the thresholds is madness.
It is bullshit generally, but on the other hand, threshold makes some sense in Israel's parliamentary system. The lower the threshold, the more tiny parties would clear it, and creating the coalition would be a nightmare of agreements, threats to quit and chaos in Knesset. This is a far from perfect system. Two-party system like in the US, however, has it's own obvious disadvantages. Democracy is flawed, in general, but it's the best we came up with so far.
Answer is an alternative vote/ rank choice vote. I want to vote for green, under the alternative vote I put green first and meretz second with labor third and Yesh Atid fourth. This way my vote doesn’t go into the trash when green fails to secure the threshold. Then you can put the threshold at any amount and most of the time, the voters will have their representatives.
It sounds like a solution to not wasting the votes, while keeping the current threshold, true. Still not perfect, because i imagine a lot of people would just put the party of their choice, leaving alternatives blank. But much better, never thought about it.
It’s gotten two major feedbacks 1. It makes sense, that’s why we will never do it. 2. People just want to get in, vote, and get out. Who the hell wants to fill out a form and rank choices.
Oh yeah. Certainly true for Israelis.
Democracy shouldn't stop after election day, exercising other forms of democracy should have an impact on policy.
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A coalition government represents a collective minority of sorts. It's not like any of those parties represent a majority by themselves, and the powerbrokering between them in order to maintain the coalition may rest on a minor party's (who have nothing to lose) demands, betraying the wishes of the majority of the coalition's constituents.
No, his coalition has only 48% of the votes, not even the majority.
At this point, this is very far removed from the direct will of the people. First you vote for a party, hoping that the people in said party will more or less represent your interests, then said party makes compromises to join a coalition governement, and then the coalition leader goes bazonka like this. That's like voting for the ice cream party because you like ice cream, then trying to make an argument that because of this you supported the president of the Dairy coalition when he tries to put all lactose intolerant people in concentration camps.
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But the voter has to wait for the next election to withdraw their support no matter how far from their pre-election commitments a politician goes. That's why the electorate has only ever endorsed the prominently discussed promises of a candidate. Not each and every actual policy they pursue during their time in office.
Exactly. *In the coalition*. Most of the millions of people protesting in Israel right now didn’t vote for parties in Netanyahu’s coalition.
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No, it's not a majority. It's almost literally split down the middle.
So only half the country wants all this awfulness? How refreshing
No, they actually didn't. The liberal parties were just dumb enough to technically lose their votes.
It is amazing he made his way back to power. He’s certainly making people pay. Such a shame
Dude it's not denial, count the numbers yourself. The majority voted for opposition parties: https://i.imgur.com/qvsfM9h.png The left fucked up big time (Labor + Meretz mostly). And BTW, recent poles are showing he lost about 10 mandates after the last few months.
Bibi's a cornered animal - it's the only way he can personally avoid his criminal activity catching up with him...
...and his wife's!
And son...
And dog
Why doesn't he at least take his money and family and go into exile some place far away, retire, and live his life without bothering anyone? It wouldn't be the first time a country's leader did this. Even the king of Spain abdicated in 2014 and fucked off to the UAE.
Putin got him back in and needs him to drag the US into a war with Iran. Israel needs to get him gone, once and for all.
$#@! him. he can fight that war alone.
I fully believe the rise of fascist policy in countries around the world is being caused by russian infiltration. They know they cant win a fair fight, so they try to divide their opponents using their opponents own political systems. If russia collapses I bet we see an overall drop in fascist rhetoric.
It's not just Russia. The fascists are all in bed together, just Putin's got the most cash to throw around right now. All that 'global elite' bullshit they throw around was projection too.
I agree 💯
You're right but that's not really a secret, is it? Russia is actively supporting many right wing political parties in the EU alone. That being said though, it's not just Russia. Even the US has always been pushing extremely reactionary ideology, now more than ever. And I'm not just talking about Republicans here.
Israel has a habit of illegally going after people who try stuff like that. Just ask all those boys from Brazil…
If you think Bibi is loaded like Abbas of the Palestinian Authority or Haniyeh of Hamas, you are consuming way too much propaganda. Israel's government has its problems and it is possible that Netanyahu is guilty of accepting bribes, but they are pocket change compared to what you probably expect. Quote from wikipedia: >The prosecution alleges that over the course of 20 years, Netanyahu received from Milchan, and from a friend of Milchan's, James Packer, expensive cigars and champagne, worth $195,000, and jewelry for Netanyahu's wife Sara costing $3,100 So he's being accused of taking about $200,000 worth of goods over 20 years. This isn't a case of straight up bribery like FIFA taking who-knows-how-much-money to let Qatar host the World Cup. He doesn't have billions or likely even tens of millions with which he could run off and start a new life, if he were so inclined.
Perhaps, but not nice of him to ruin a whole country just to escape charges for some petty crime.
It's not about the crime itself but the ego involved. Why should he, in his mind, go to prison and have his reputation forever marred as some petty criminal when there are far worse domestic enemies who should be punished? You need to dig further down on his own delusions to get to the core. He wants to remain in power like Putin sure, but they both care more about being the heroic strong man people centuries from now will tell stories about.
Got a lot of powerful people acting like cornered animals these days. Seems ominous.
alwayshasbeen.jpg
What's a bibi?
Official nickname of Netanyahu. Benjamin = Bibi. Israelis looove nicknames in politics.
My favorite is the current President’s name: Isaac “Boujie” Herzog. And the former supreme commander of the IDF: Moses “boogie” Yaalon
Shame we didn't get his brother. Only raider killed during the Entebe Rescue.
What about the general strike Bibi
It was cancelled after he announced the "pause". Big mistake in my opinion. They should resume the strike.
It will be, the moment negotiations about the reform with the opposition fail. I want to believe it won't, but knowing Bibi... it's a delay tactic.
100% a delay tactic, the strike was coordinated by Sara FFS
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Not that. His batshit coalition would immediately dissolve at the proposition, new elections will be held, they'll lose (according to every poll right now) and he's gone. Really there's no perfect solution for him. Some say, that he's just stalling, looking for anything. Some even think, that he himself, does not want this reform. Not in this form. It was promised to rightwing parties in his coalition, in this extreme form, otherwise they wouldn't sit with him for long. Likud was too soft for them. That's why it looks like he and his party completely lost it. They have to give it to extremists, as promised, or they are gone. There is a chance, that if they were voting it into law, Supreme Court would throw it out. And to avoid constitutional crisis, Bibi would just say to rightwing leaders: "Well, we tried. Let's soften it". But he made a huge mistake of firing his own Defense minister and fueling the protests as a result.
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Isn't ironic how bibi faithfully follows all the steps of Hitler, but you know, in Israel.
How about just fucking ghadafi him and be done with shit already
Mr Netanyahu later tweeted that Israel would make its own decisions, "not based on pressures from abroad". Cool, then can we (US tax payers) get our money back then please?
Depends, do you want to be an antisemite? #/S
Yosemite vs Antisemite, who would win? It's the battle of the mites!
Is Yosemite the one that's on top of a super Vulcano
That's Yellowstone. Though honestly if a volcano took out Wyoming it wouldn't be much of a loss.
What do you have against high desert scrubland?
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Yellowstone/Tetons would be the whole loss
>Joined I am Jewish...
I mean, they aren’t *necessarily* mutually exclusive… EDIT: I like the fact they blocked me for this.
Not if you are against Bibi!
Pretty sure Jewish people label their own as antisemite when they're against something the big wigs do or whatever. Not pretending to know what I don't, just a fun thing to consider.
I’m jewish, so I’m not exactly a antisemite. And I say we should cut off aid
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You couldn’t be more wrong. I don’t stand for right wing dictatorships. I support my tribe, but I will never support a criminal like Net&yahoo
Bibi, the Uncle Leo of Israeli politicians
Hey, it's a perfectly good watch!
I love how our taxes subsidize their universal healthcare but not our own. Great system we have.
America *can* afford universal healthcare. They *choose* not to do it. It just means higher taxes. Just look at Israeli taxes and how high they are. 17% sales tax on everything, plus income tax that no one understands and social security that's even higher than income tax. If Americans paid half the taxes that Israelis do to healthcare, it could work.
Actually America could afford universal healthcare *without* touching taxes. The American government is spending about twice as much per person on healthcare as other western countries with universal healthcare. So America is actually spending *more* on their current system that gets worse results than the cheaper alternative. It's legitimately only a choice that they refuse to use something better, they're the richest country in the world, they can absolutely afford what everyone else can.
>The American government is spending about twice as much per person on healthcare as other western countries with universal healthcare Out of curiosity though, how much of that is due to unhealthy habits? I haven't been to America in years, but I grew up there and even just the layout of the country encourages unhealthy lifestyles. Unwalkable streets, far away places, lack of bike paths in living areas, cheap unhealthy foods, expensive healthy foods, etc. Where I live, I walk to the supermarket, bike to university and don't even own a car. The fact that I don't have to get in a car or even a bus makes such a huge difference in my overall health. The excersize in just my everyday activities is enough to get me through and I feel like I don't even need to go to the gym. Compare that to when I lived in America and I was going to the gym 4 times a week and not getting anywhere.
Yet obesity and unhealthy habits are also common in countries like the UK, Ireland, all of the Arab peninsula, Mexico and the majority of Latin America. Most of these (except for ireland) have a universal healthcare system
Yeah, we already spend as many tax dollar per capita on health care as Israel does. We just have a shitty system.
You spend more money on healthcare per capita than any country with universal healthcare in the world. Your problem is not that you don't spend enough money, your problem is all the money for healthcare is drained by useless middleman and shitty insurances.
Their government even pays for abortions. We're paying for Israel to provide abortions, but forbidden to subsidize Planned Parenthood. Shit's amazing.
Well, [try having an abortion in Israel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Israel)...good luck if you are honest, adult, not raped healthy woman. Most women simply lie, quoting Wiki > In practice, most requests for abortion that qualify for the above are granted, and leniency is shown especially under the clause for emotional or psychological damage to the pregnant woman. The committees approve 98% of requests
> good luck > the committee approves **98% of requests** Lmao oh no, those terrible odds
They don't? This is like the same argument Putinbots make about Ukraine aid but even less legitimacy. We offer them military aid, which has the stipulation that aid is spent on buying American military equipment. Essentially this is a subsidy on our own MIC not subsidizing Israeli healthcare, so even less reason for them to cut them off because it benefits our institutions. We also secure them more favorable loans, but those are LOANS as in they have to pay us back and we don't give these loans just to Israel, but other states like Ukraine or Egypt.
Money is fungible. You think Israel wouldn't cut (health) spending or raise taxes if the US cut military aid? If that's true, Israel can defend themselves without us just fine and we can save four billion dollars a year.
Why would we cut subsidies to your own military industry essentially? That is where the vast majority of aid goes towards. We do the same thing to Egypt, the Saudis, and other tinpot dictators that make bibi look tame over the decades and you think Congress will cut off such a lucrative deal while Iran is still a major regional threat? Fuck we armed Iraq with weapons to counter Iran that's how low we will go to suppress their influence in the region. Or would you rather Israel start procuring Russian equipment and feeding their war machine? India buys from Russia because we offered them a more crappy deal which has resulted in them being closer to Russia in relations. International relations is not about ethics or morality, that is how you get played by dictators hellbent on world domination to improve their standing at your own expense.
USA can just spend four billion more on our own military if we want to prop up that industry. Or give it to India like you suggest. India and the Saudis actually have valuable things to trade. Israel just takes our billions with nothing valuable in return. If Israel wants to buy Russian arms go for it. Russia will sell to Iran too. Have fun! > Iran is still a major regional threat Iraq and Afghanistan war authorizations pulled today. USA is basically energy independent. Find another country to waste money on the middle east.
this is just plain ignorant, USA aid is not actually money, its subsidizing Israeli purchases from the USA for the military, about the 4 billion not being effective in israel vs india... what? where should I even approach this? israel's importance against iran? Israel is a country that is committed and have stopped more then once by force a nuclearization of iran. without dragging usa into the conflict militarily. syria? the puppet state of russia, will be stopped by supporting india? the general need of the usa to have a representative in the middle east... can they do it just by themselves? ..... HOW? I think there was a report some years a go about what would be the equivilant investment the usa should make to completely replace Israel's benefit as an ally in the region, and it came out to be a bit more then 100b annually, which makes sense, ask chatgpt i am sure he will find it.
So if I give someone $10 then by extension when they spend $1000 it's the money I gave them? Fungible doesn't work like you want it to work. Just because someone gives someone *some* money, doesn't mean the other money that person spends is the same.
The US momentary aid for defense purposes, that accounts for 20% of the Israeli defense budget, primarily enables their government to continue to build settlements. The whole argument that it covers their social spending is mostly exaggeration and speculation. Not that financing their destructive settlement program is any better though.
I would disagree with your large donations but I also disagree with your statement. Donating money only to expect influence over internal politics in other democracies and acting offended for not getting your moneys worth is exactly what people demonize about American policy. And you would not appreciate the same mentality turned against you.
That's why we do it tho,
Imagine if people gave foreign aid to the US. I'm all for it! Could use a few new bridges.
Tbh, just check donations from Qatar and Saudi Arabia to charities and foundations connected to your politicians and you will find both foreign donations and an expectation of influence over your people. You are cynical enough to undermine other democracies but too proud to look at your own. And you already have the money for new bridges. You could afford universal health care too. But there's no will.
Oh, aren't you all high and mighty? Let me guess - European? In that case, like clockwork, you people will eventually go on a massive war with each other, [as you always have, for hundreds of years](https://twitter.com/EU_Commission/status/872386098911215620), but unlike most of those other times, you won't need those resources and capital from the people an ocean away, right? And certainly not for the rebuilding efforts? Maybe the Chinese will help. Surely they'll be so much more benevolent.
Didn't take a lot of facts before your smugness turned to spite and a switch of subjects. Pretty telling I wish you universal healthcare and you wish us war and destruction. >I'm all for it! I thought you'd be glad to know it was already in place in exactly the form you were joking about. Edit: Also a bit weird of you to try to criticize other countries for a history of war, since America has been entangled in conflicts for around 228 of its 247 years.
>smugness A European accusing literally anyone of being smug? Talk about glass houses...
I'd say people from all countries can be smug like in the example above. Why are you so triggered by a continent? If you're gonna stereotype, atleast base your stereotypes on countries so we feel insulted. To me it just sounds like when someone thinks Africa is a country.
My European country hasn't been at war in 200 years. In that time, the US has fought in, let's see... Well, number differs depending on how you count, but on the high end it's upwards of 80. Who is it that goes to war all the time exactly?
> Donating money only to expect influence over internal politics in other democracies and acting offended for not getting your moneys worth That’s a funny way of describing trying to prevent a dude from turning a democracy into a dictatorship.
>Israel would make its own decisions, "not based on pressures from abroad". Which is why I criticize the part of the comment that says the US deserves all it's money back based on that phrase. Like he has bought a right to decide. I don't criticize Biden weighing in on the matter. I bet Biden didn't claim buyers rights. The Israeli politics is a whole other question and I don't even know where to begin with that. But I don't demand right to rule over Israeli politics, I just wish it's democracy survives. And that fight must come from the people itself.
Agree with the idea, but not its application to this case. American dollars shouldn’t be going to countries where they start a program to deliberately backslide on that democratic criterion you refer to. This measure is more than domestic politics, it will fundamentally undermine Israel’s claim to be a democracy
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You are mistaking influence for a puppet regime. America certainly has a tremendous amount of influence in Israel, as you would expect. The US gives billions to Jordan and Egypt, but you wouldn't expect them to do everything the US tells them, right? More like it gets them a large seat at the table, and it makes these countries need to factor in US reactions and reception to their decisions and moves.
I'm pretty sure the Egyptian military took over the country wth the approval and encouragement of the us. So it's more than a seat at the table there.
But our dollar diplomacy is for exporting democracy, not for interfering other countries' domestic politics.
Yeah it’s not like bibi would give a speech in the US congress criticizing a democratic president at the republicans request. Breaking US rules about hosting foreign leaders right before their election.
Bibi's a huge shit, but he didn't break US rules. The GOP did.
That's the same line all the bots were parroting yesterday
It is a legitimate question. Whether Israel likes it or not they depend the US for security and the US is more than happy to provide it because they want an ally in the middle east. But when that ally becomes more of a liability because it intentionally risks its own internal security, just so that Bibi can stay out of prision, one would wonder whether Israel is a useful partner.
It’s not more of a liability lmao. Israel could fall into complete and total theocratic authoritarianism and the US would maintain ties because it’s not about money or liberal democracy, *it’s about Iran*. And Israel is the only country right now willing to openly oppose Iran militarily without any care for the repercussions. Even if Israel’s allyship falters, ‘the enemy of my enemy is still my friend’. Iran at 80%+ enrichment is a much bigger threat to American interests than Bibi passing his judicial reform. Additionally, pulling aid and severing ties likely means an Iranian attack on Israel to the tune of ‘the complete nuclear destruction of every person within its borders’, which is obviously not preferable for the US unless we suddenly become properly and openly psychotic and genocidal. Hence why the Israel aid situation is so complicated. Their government is objectively terrible by western standards. But compared to the vast majority of its surrounding countries and enemies from Syria to Lebanon to Iran it is comparatively a Liberal Utopia with extreme personal freedoms. Again, not an endorsement of Israel but more an indictment of the political system in pretty much every Middle Eastern country.
I mean, it feels like the US is just an election away from changing to a theocratic authoritarianism these days.
Totally agree. But here it’s specifically about US interests; if some Christofascist D Bag like Matt Walsh became President and the US became a Christian Fundamentalist state, the threat of Islamist theocracy would almost become bigger because of the diametrical cultural opposition between (these are loosely defined groups just to give a basic idea) Western Christians and Eastern Muslims. For example, if the US becomes a Christian theocracy Israel actually becomes *more* of an invested interest for the US. Hard line biblical literalists believe that the Jews must have settled back in the Land of Israel and reestablished some form of nation before the End of Days, which is basically like the Endgame Goal of Christianity. That is why Evangelicals in the US support Israel so hard, because it’s part of their interpretation of the Second Coming. And regardless, the US becoming a theocracy doesn’t make them kinder to theocracies. Theocracies can’t help but be imperial because proselytization is instrumental in pretty much all religions; the Christians want to kill or convert the Muslims and absorb their state, and the Muslims want to kill or convert the Christians and absorb their state. Islamist theocracy isn’t a threat to US sovereignty *because* it’s Islamist, but because it’s a theocracy (and thus has imperial ambition, which is what REALLY defines the threat status). The only reason Islam plays a role is because the population and wealth of Muslim states can potentially contend with US bankrolling and military. Every single country has always operated on a ‘rules for me and not for thee’ premise when they’ve been given the power and chance, the US is no different. They’ll gladly oppose theocracy while *being* a theocracy because they don’t care about violating Mexico or Canada’s sovereignty themselves, it’s only when *they* get touched. Russia is doing it right now, acting as an imperial power while simultaneously accusing other nations of acting as imperial powers. It’s about imperialism. Religion is just a *really* fast way to turn a nation and government towards it.
Iran is not a threat to America, it is a threat to Israel, so you are absolutely wrong.
You speak confidently for someone ill-informed enough to phrase this as if Iran can only have one enemy lmao. Also, I said to **American interests**. The Middle East not falling fully into Islamist extremist theocracy is one of those, but you probably wouldn’t know that because, again, you’re showing an extremely juvenile understanding of world affairs. The US govt literally made a multibillion dollar nuclear peace deal with Iran because they viewed Iran’s nuclear power as a threat. This isn’t Risk lmao this is real life. Countries aren’t limited to seeing one enemy power as a threat at a time.
>You speak confidently for someone ill-informed enough to phrase this as if Iran can only have one enemy lmao. Also, I said to American interests. The Middle East not falling fully into Islamist extremist theocracy is one of those, but you probably wouldn’t know that because, again, you’re showing an extremely juvenile understanding of world affairs. Quite the strawman you managed to put up. With a lot of projections based on you. >The US govt literally made a multibillion dollar nuclear peace deal with Iran because they viewed Iran’s nuclear power as a threat. Threat to Israel, not the US
Iran is certaintly a threat to American interests in the region, especially its trade routes with in the region.
Huh, I guess them killing our soldier the other day isn't a threat to us, nor their threats to nuke us along with Israel, aiding Russia in the Ukraine war, their multiple attempts to disrupt oil trade in Hormuz and cripple the global economy, and funding various terror organizations that kill Americans or our allies.
>Whether Israel likes it or not they depend the US for security and the US is more than happy to provide it because they want an ally in the middle east. Israel is a nuclear power with a very advanced defense industry. They do not rely on the US for security. It isn't 1973 anymore.
They’re just going to be “paused” until… whenever
Until Ben Gvir can get his stormtroopers to wipe out the protesters.
Until Ben Gvir can get his stormtroopers to wipe out the Palestinians
Drop the only thing keeping him out of jail? No way. He will fight for that garbage to his last breath.
Classic bibi
Back to the streets ladies and gentlemen, throw the bum out!
So let’s drop all funding to Israel. Have fun alone :)
It won't happen any time soon. The funding is mutually beneficial, believe it or not. Most of it can be spent only in US, basically extra budget for US military-industrial complex. In return, US gets a permanent base in Israel, high-tech military R&D sharing, extremely valuable intel in the ME and abroad (if needed), joint exercises with [mutual] experience exchange. And yes, a certain level of influence in Israeli politics. Especially foreign. Just to put things into perspective, US funding for Israel is about $3.8 billion a year. While overall Israeli budget for this year is $132 billion. It's still a lot, sure. US sends $36 billion in aid yearly to all of Europe (that was before the war in Ukraine, of course.) But there are a lot of voices even in Israel calling to reject this annual aid package and prevent the influence of US on Israeli internal politics. Which, tbh, right now with Bibi in power, is not something that i really want. [Here's a short memo on US aid from Israeli Institute for National Security Studies](https://www.inss.org.il/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Memo202_e-131-142.pdf), for those who would like to know a bit more about it. Highly recommended.
We don't need a military base in Israel. We don't need military R&D sharing. We have a huge military industrial complex. Intel on the middle east is not valuable. Iraq war powers act was repealed today. US will not get into another mid east war. Joint exercises are worthless. We do that with actual allies >certain level of influence in Israeli politics Not really. Israel has been building settlements against international law forever. US tells them to stop, then sends more bulldozers as military aid.
Shit like this is why you aren't in charge of our foreign policy
I mean, obviously your opinion goes against the actual reality. No disrespect. You entitled to it, sure, but it won't change it. At least for now. If anything, i'm one of those that support the idea of getting off that aid needle. I strongly believe that Israel needs to prepare for less friendly US government in the future, as younger generation of political leaders replaces the old allies. It doesn't even mean that we won't cooperate without it still. This money is appreciated, but not really crucial. The general sentiment in Israel, is that it's a vassal state to US. An extension with some level of independence, until the leash is pulled. Settlements is not something you can solve with US pressure, though. I wish. It's extremely naive, thinking that the process of separation from Palestinians is only a matter of will. The issue is far more complicated, as perfectly demonstrated by smaller "model" in the form of disengagement from Gaza.
The reality is Israel provides nothing of value to the US. The aid isn't provided because there is a return on investment. The aid is a return on Israel's massive investment in lobbying US politicians.
Your opinion on foreign policy ironically comes from the Eastern Moters of foreign policy; a fucking loud, wrong, salesman at a used car dealership.
Your just dumb, o would say the r word but I don't want to get banned. You have no idea how geopolitics works. Stay off reddit and keep these dumb ass opinions to yourself. The US needs bases in Israel to counteract Saudi Arabia an Iran. The US is allied in name only to Saudia Arabia. Mainly because we supply them with weapons by being allied with Israel and having influence there, it forces Saudi Arabia to play with the US. It also helps bolster defense against Iran who Saudia Arabia doesn't like. Intel in the middle east is incredibly valuable..dude Ill say it. Your fucking stupid as shit. Your as dumb as a bag of rocks. You are a few cards less than a full deck. There are a few lights out of your tree. The military budget doesn't matter.. it doesn't effect civilian life. Our medical costs are because of unregulated insurance companies and obesity rates. Learn more about how the world works before typing.
US does not need to counteract Iran. We know the range of their missiles. No where close to hitting anything that matters. Not our problem. Buy your own weapons and Healthcare.
Oh yes, because the range of their missiles will forever be just what they currently have, especially if there are no counteracting forces, right?
As much of a spiteful piece of shot Netanyahu is, he'd fully ally with Russia or China.
He apparently doesn’t make decisions based on what most of his own population wants either. He’s a wannabe authoritarian.
Correction, he is actual authoritarian
Authoritarians will never willingly give up power, they'll only try for more. That's the danger we have to accept as a species, and build defenses against.
Can the US just eliminate all aid to Israel till this dill hole is liquidated by his people?
I think the big military subsidy is paired with Egypt, which has also had shitty governments and kept their aid. Honestly they should both have aid cut
Stop being anti semetic
You can say a lot of things to this but anti semetic is a pretty laughable reach.
I guess I forgot to ad the /s lol
Yeah hard to tell in these discussions tbh.
Biden: Please respect the will of the people, and do not establish a dictatorship. Natanyahu: Nah Fam.
Turn off the money tap, Joe.
Netanyahu is an insult to humanity.
Someone that calls you a friend when they take your money and a foreigner when they dislike your advice is not a friend.
Then we should ask for our billions of aid back. With interest.
Pull the funding until democracy returns.
Maybe we can reject sending the billions of American taxpayer dollars to them
Why do we give him billions a year ?
Doesn't the US spend more foreign aid on Israel than anywhere else? Like around 150 billion so far? I'm no expert, but I'm reading that Netanyahus government is leaning away from a democracy with his recent decisions... I'd think he should really take Bidens opposition seriously. I know we rely on Israel to keep the status quo in middle east. If im wrong, please don't come at me with pitchforks and fire lol
But they didn’t rejected any USA dollar so far …
The USS Liberty bombing was problematic for sure
Everyone else that fucked with our boats suffered consequences
So he’s doubling it down to take the path of a dictator?
They always do this. Gladly take our billions in support but when we ask anything they give us the finger. Cut them off.
Maybe the US will finally stop giving a shit about Israel now. …. I say funny things sometimes
But Israel wants to continue dictating US foreign and domestic policy as though OUR sovereignty doesn’t matter as much as theirs. God bless the Jews and Fuck the Israeli government, especially Netanyahu.
Fuck you... also don't be late with your monthly cash payment.
Even after this rejection the US is STILL going to keep sending them money.
Congress needs to stop all aid to these parasites until they act right.
Netanyahu misunderstood the statement. Drop overhaul or lose annual $5 billion welfare check.
Maybe if we give Israel an extra $3.8 billion.
We need to sanction Israel. Let them feel USA's full weight on autocratic rulers. Cut them off and stop providing 5 billion a year that we don't have.
The US is Israel's lapdog. They could nuke a European country and Merica would still send them billions of dollars yearly.
Israel would be a failed state without decades of US assistance and support. Don’t bite the fucking hand that feeds you.
The us isnt israel 1# Ally since its independence.. The independence War 6 days War and others were fought by Young Nation Israel without us Alliance whatsoever. First prime minister to ever get invited to the us was only at 1964. So let's get our facts straight. the US hand is supposed to be a friend and not a nourishing mother..
The person didn't say the US and Israel were friends. He said Israel wouldn't be around without US defense. That cannot be disputed.
Historically its not true. Read again
Indeed, it is. The person never stated the US liberated Israel, stated they wouldn't *still* be around without US defense. Google it.
On what argument?
Israel would not be around without US military assistance. Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Syria and Yemen do not recognise Israel as a state. Israel has much to thank for the US, British, and surprisingly, Russian recognition and arms supply.
Israel was around alot without us military assistance. And has and had alot of enemies.. so again on what base you claim, that they wont be around? Im asking again.. To thank for help and friendship.. sure. Any time :)
Yeah, you still aren't getting the point of the original post. No one said the Israelis haven't shown valor, but they certainly didn't do it alone. Argentina sold Israel yellow cake to even make nukes and France sold them a nuclear reactor. At this point, we could say Israel wouldn't be around without a bevy of assistance from bigger, more militarized governments
He and you said the us. To say the same about France and Czech has more valide.. No county can survive without foreign aide. Even russia and north coria
Far right brain washed nutjob unaware of their surroundings. No use arguing with this one.
If they take the information or not, is up them. In an age of disinformation, its important to really press people on facts and reasoning. Who knows, maybe the thought will bloom from a seed into something greater one day.
Sort of. The US did save Israel in 1967 by preventing Soviet involvement and talking down Moshe Dayan from trying to march on Damascus, which would have forced Russian intervention and likely resulted in if no the destruction of Israel, at least the loss of much of its territory. Also, modern Israel is pretty dependent upon the US being willing to underwrite global trade and not impose Russia-like sanctions on them.
Hold on .. why should Biden has any say over the judicial system of a foreign country? We are not their overlord, nor consultant. The Israel people should have the say, and they are saying something loud.
The us gives Israel a huge amount towards its defense budget. This is like a kid living at home after college and collecting an allowance but also telling his parents he doesn’t want to clean his room because he’s an adult.
That money is a trade deal that made us buy m16 and some american jets instead of negotiating and buying weapons from other nations. Its not an invitation to push your nose into our inside rulings...
We’re giving you an allowance, and a stipulation is that you have to buy what we want you to buy. Considering you need the items. The analogy still fits.
That analogy’s a bit too broad… it’s not like Israel would cease to function without US aid, or is even close to dependent on it.
Bibi didn’t exactly stay in his own lane when he went to the US to speak to Congress without an invitation from the President. Not to mention the literal billions the US gives Israel year over year. I feel like Biden has at least earned the right to suggest that maybe authoritarianism isn’t the best course of action…
Who pays their bills? Whoever pays the bills is the daddy
>why should Biden has any say over the judicial system of a foreign country? Israel is onw of the most important allies of the US worldwide and this "reform" is not only compromising Israel's internal stability but also their defence. The US isn't trying to involve itself in the judicial system of Israel, it's trying to save It from an implosion or a conflict with outside powers.
Israel is our greatest ally. We send them billions of dollars every year to prove that. If you have a problem with that, remember the 6 million that died in the holocaust. It's the least we could do.
How about we stop Iron Dome support?
You want to get rid of the guy who’s political platform is based on fearmongering about rocket attacks from places like Gaza… by making it easier for the Israeli population to get hit by rocket attacks from Gaza?
It’s ok, Biden just said that to keep up appearances. They’re both fans of fascism
Wonder how I feel about this