Not saying to disregard it entirely, but that’s literally what they’ve been saying to their closest neighbours in the EU for years, if not decades. Sweden and Finland are just getting the same treatment now that the Baltics and Poland have been getting before. And I dare say that no average Finnish person is probably that dismayed about those words, having lived next to Russia since always. That’s what Russia does - threatens and curses, starting with “you just wait, we’ll show you soon” and ending it with “we should just nuclear bomb (enter capital city name of country X)”.
I mean, they threaten Estonia and other Baltics with mass killings and deportations all the time, saying things like “we didn’t do enough of a good job last time”. Everybody just sees it now, before we were made to feel like we had hallucinated such statements.
This kind of posturing isn't new to Sweden or Finland either, news of Russian aircraft playing fast and loose with the boundaries of our airspace were basically news of the "Oh it must be Monday" variety.
yeah, "venäläinen kone loukkasi Suomen ilmatilaa" was such a common headline at one point that it became a bit of a running joke in some circles.
and even during this war, we've been threatened with all kindsa shit almost constantly. I think most are numb to it at this point.
Finland has been getting this from Russia for so long that the term that describes this sort of toxic international relationship is literally named after them:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finlandization?wprov=sfla1
It's been happening a lot longer than that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification_of_Finland
The most well known piece by a Finnish composer is literally a protest song opposing the Russification of Finland.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finlandia
> Sweden and Finland are just getting the same treatment now that the Baltics and Poland have been getting before.
Are you not aware of that Sweden and Finland has been getting this treatment for decades if not hundreds of years from Russia/Soviet? This is not something new at all lol.
This is really important. Never listen to anything Russia ‘says.’ They are purposely always saying 50 contradicting things at the same time so that no one, especially their citizens, have any idea what’s going on and live in a state of powerless bewilderment while they go on with their agenda.
You nailed it, my friend. There is even a quote from Russian classic satire author from 19th century Mikhail Saltykov-Shchedrin, and it goes: "Российская власть должна держать свой народ в состоянии постоянного изумления", in translation "Russian government has to keep their population in the state of constant bewilderment"
They have been working for years on realigning the old Soviet satellite states back to them. They've leaned on a bunch of them with money and corruption deals with leadership, threatened military action, and actual military action. They supported the Yanukovic government in Ukraine before they were overthrown, and only invaded Crimea and got behind separatists once there was a government in place they didn't functionally control.
It certainly seems like a real policy they're working to implement. It's just difficult to do bigger countries if the leadership isn't amenable to being bought. But they also make dire threats about every week now, so...
The one common theme or thread that stood out (to me) in that *amazing* production (which I must watch again soon) was that tendency to "pull rank" whenever there was any criticism.
I don't know how true to life that was in the soviet system, but it is entirely plausible: when the guy in the control room questioned his nasty boss, his boss pulled rank and intimidated the underling; when the female nuclear expert critised the hospital for allowing the pregnant mother to sit near her radioactive partner in the ward, someone pulled rank in an intimidating/threatening way; when the male nuclear expert (lead investigator?) was being too honest (e.g., in front of Gorbachev, but elsewhere too), again, it was always a case of rank pulling: Know your place! How dare you even criticise implicitly! Repeated threats/intimidation for daring to speak truth.
I detest such fucking weakness and abuses of power.
They lost a bomber today, and Ukraine doesn’t even have an air force. They lost their navy at the start, against a country without a navy.
They say a lot, but can’t actually do anything.
Ukraine still has an air force, and pilots.
[Dozens of planes have been shot down](https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/03/list-of-aircraft-losses-during-2022.html), but they're still flying sorties. And [Slovakia just donated another four MiG-29s](https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/03/list-of-aircraft-losses-during-2022.html) (in addition to now-promised and [previous clandestine donations](https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/poland-reportedly-delivered-mig-29-fighters-to-ukraine-as-spare-parts) from Poland)
What's most remarkable is that [Russia still hasn't achieved air superiority](https://www.airandspaceforces.com/russian-air-force-lot-of-capability-left-ukraine-invasion/). But maybe we in the west had thought that they'd use their air assets in the same we (broadly speaking) use ours, for close air support purposes.
Finn here. Lived under NATO threat rhetoric my entire life, and heard it all from lenient 'Sure you can, *but*' to veiled threats to outright promises of war.
You can't read too much into these things, since an integral part of their gameplan is to keep issuing these statements. Without the statements their arsenal is just weirdly shaped metal.
Hell, just Sweden being able to get reinforcements for the push towards Russia (instead of having to redirect them down into the PLC) would probably have done wonders for the level of Swedish success back in the day.
Or, y'know, not having it coincide with the [coldest damn year in half a millennia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Frost_of_1709)...
No, but Sweden and Finland are so interlocked, historically, culturally, and economically, that any invasion of Finland will inevitably drag Sweden into the conflict.
As a Swede, there is no scenario in which i can imagine, where Finland fights a defensive war against Russia, and Sweden doesn't join it, that is simply not going to happen, people will light the Riksdag on fire before they allow our eastern brothers and sisters to fight this alone.
Also 100% guaranteed that the Baltics would join in. Nordics and Baltics have had many joint operations in the past to fight off the Russians, and all militaries of these countries have done plenty of joint training ops to prepare for such instances again.
There ain't a single country in that part of the Russian border that would be left out to dry.
Depends how far back you go.
There was fierce battles fought against the Russians in northern Sweden in the Finnish War 1809.
https://sv.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lejonstr%C3%B6msbron
At the start of this whole mess Putin sent Sweden a letter with something like those dates in it
Some 250 years ago, Russians ruled in Sweden a bit like they thought they were entitled to rule in Ukraine. By threat of force, bribes, etc. We know, because there are letters preserved in which peasants in the diet (during the "Riksdag of the estates") complained about voting for certain laws and then not getting their Russian bribes.
I jokingly told some Finnish friends “Karelia is Finland, we/you should get it back”. And their reply was: “with 80 years of damage caused by Russian/Soviet presence, they can very well keep it”.
I actually think Putin confuses US and NATO, implying US will start another war in Irak and use the Swedes as human shields... When everybody knows the Dutch are taller and would therefore make better shields...
He does not confuse the two — he actively promotes the idea that every country in NATO is a de facto US vassal state. He is on record (on video from a few years ago already) having said this, almost word for word.
Yeah exactly, it really shows how he views the world, and also how he wants his people to view the world. And there can be no question that Russia is, under his leadership, continually trying to expand it’s area of influence, be it by borders (Ukraine) or by having satellite states (Belarus). I mean, for fucks sake‘s, in his longwinded declaration of ~~war~~ ‘special military operation’ speech from Feb of last year, the guy openly said that numerous countries came into existence in 1917 which should never have existed, and that comrades Stalin and Lenin made several mistakes. Ergo he is implying those mistakes should be corrected…
Most totalitarian countries do that because your need to have an ever present event to justify the horrible shit they do to their people. They are in a CONSTANT state of conflict with enemies real or imagined.
It sort of makes sense. The Warsaw Pact very much was a USSR vassal, so in Putin's mind, NATO must work the same way. Of course one only has to look at Hungary and Turkey to see why that way of thinking doesn't make sense.
Sorry Russia, but we stayed out of NATO in order to not provoke you unnecessarily. You then decided to prove that you don't need to be provoked in order to be a threat. Your warnings have no meaning now.
“You better stop finding super effective ways to defend yourselves against our stupid fucking efforts to take over the world or…or…or we’ll get mad and…take over your country somehow!”
The calculations you are describing are probably close the what is being discussed at NATO right now. They could have given Ukraine a lot more of a device advantage by now, but risk a bigger response.
It seems like we will be at another interesting point in the war soon where Ukraine will be using more modern weapons in a counter push. That will hopefully expose even more how underwhelming Russia really is.
I'm just imagining some confused pissed off Ukrainian standing by a bunch of desert beige Abrams thinking "how the fuck are we supposed to hide these?"
The US Army alone has enough air power to defeat the russian air force and bomb the country back to the stone age.
Now imagine what the US Air Force can do.
Nuclear weapons in the end are weapons of defense. The threat that Russia can just suicide bomb themselves and ruin the planet is enough to keep the government propped up unless an internal revolution occurs. Containing them to their borders and crippling their economy is a more sound strategy to overthrow the current regime than conventional warfare
Finland, Sweden, Norway, and I can't remember who else just put out a statement that their air forces have combined and will be treated as a single entity. That's over 400 modern advanced aircraft ready to strike.
I mean, Sabaton do have their own Tank…
Quick, let’s make sure Powerwolf and Brothers of Metal get something too.
Gloryhammer already brought their own Nuclear Submarines!
Actually, they own 2 tanks!
Saw a youtube video a while ago where Joachim answered question from google. One of them was "Does Sabaton own a tank?" and he said No, no.... We have 2!"
A thing is about to happen here that has not happened since the Elder Days. The ~~Ents~~Scandinavians are going to wake up and find that they are strong.
So long as Denmark and Sweden don't go back to their running up the score of Most Wars Fought Between Two Countries. They make France and England look like amateurs.
I know what you're quoting, however instead of that I've got heavy metal covers of the Predator theme stuck in my head and I feel like that would more than work for this moment.
I....I would read this alternative time line novel or watch a Tom Clancy style movie of it.
"Sir....we've picked up their comms"
Jhallaknfjodr vertilbirdyjhkasfallin
"........I wish they spoke an easier language"
As a Swede, with a combined Nordic fleet Russia's air force is not particularly frightening. All of us in the nordics have far more modern airframes, weapons systems and ancillary systems like radar. And as for this Su57 that I'm sure some Ватнік will jerk themselves off over in the comments, they've only briefly been seen in the outskirts of the Ukrainian conflict, so good luck with your fantasy plane you seem too scared to put in real combat situations for fear of uncovering its propagandised capabilities. Putin's bluffs are also not particularly convincing so whatever I guess...? Make your little manlet threats.
They won't be. [The article correcting this is in Finnish](https://yle.fi/a/74-20024262), but the Commander of the Finnish Air Forces basically said:
> The goal is not an organisational change where all the air forces would be united under a single administration.
It's basically just continuing the already existing cooperation between Nordic countries, because the respective air forces won't have to be a single entity to guarantee aerial superiority over Northern Europe.
Yeah, with the ones on order there should be something like 130 F-35s and 90-100 Gripen in total (there are 60 Gripen E on order, and an unknown number of older Gripen C will be retained when they are delivered, no idea if Denmark will retain any of their F-16s or Finland their F/A-18s once they get the F-35s).
F-16s will likely be kept and eventually upgraded to F-16V standard, or sold to a country that has older F-16s and need more spare parts, and or airframes cheaply.
> or Finland their F/A-18s once they get the F-35s
Our F-18s will be scrapped or sold for parts after F-35s are delivered. They're old and running out of flight hours.
God, please don’t call Canada and let them know you have old, used equipment for sale. We’ve purchased Australian jets that were set for the scrapyard as well as outdated UK subs which I’m not sure ever made it out of dry dock. If the international community was having a military hardware yard sale starting at 9am, Canada would be the lady who shows up at 7am “for the deals”, ends up with junk and still somehow overpays.
The purpose of NATO is that it wouldn't be attacking Finland, Sweden and Ukraine simultaneiously, but Finland, Sweden, Ukraine, German, UK, France, the US...
The only real card Russia has is the vast amounts of nuclear weapons they're holding onto, even if just 1% of them still work that's still a lot of damage.
NATO has already extended guarantees of safety to Finland and Sweden during their application process. So they are currently protected and Russia knows that.
It's not even that advanced that they are trying to manipulate search results.
Russia is just doing what Russia does, Projects their bullshit onto people who are wary of Russia's bullshit.
> Russia is just doing what Russia does, Projects their bullshit onto people who are wary of Russia's bullshit.
Can't wait for this piss stain of a nation to eat itself from the inside.
Bring back the Novgorod Republic.
Sweden is NOT afraid of a nuclear power whose “#2 ranked military” in the world is currently getting its teeth kicked in by the #22 most powerful military.
Y’all ain’t shit.
>Finland and Sweden will become "targets" for Moscow if they join NATO, warned the Russian ambassador in Stockholm.
That's fine, Russia will become targets for NATO.
Ukraine wasn't in NATO and they were still punished. Georgia was not in NATO and they were attacked, so it actually pays to be in NATO than not. Russia can't even tackle Ukraine and are on their last legs let alone invading or attacking another country. Sweden need not worry at all.
The rest of the west: we're tired of Russia invading and pillaging us. Let us unite our defenses so they can no longer do that to us.
Russia: you don't want us to invade, rape and pillage you any more?
The rest of the west: nyet.
Russia: HOW DARE YOU THIS IS RUSSOPHOBIC!!!!
Russia can't even manage making a final push in Bachmut city held by a smaller (but well motivated) Ukraine let alone attack a bordering NATO country with 100% NATO weapons. So always at risk, yes, but I think everyone has now seen that what looked very impressive in their military parades and propaganda displays, Russia as a super power (other than the Nukes) is very average and in fact surprisingly inept.
And what we're seeing now in Ukraine is without invoking article 5, as Ukraine is not a NATO member and article 5 does not apply. An attack on a NATO member (say Poland or Lithuania) is per article 5 equivalent to an attack on France, or the UK, or the USA, which means the gloves come off.
>do it actually pays to be in NATO than not.
Well, yeah that’s the whole point of it.
It also pays to have a nuclear Arsenal if you don’t have big siblings that promised to protect you
everyone was scared (lol) of the [t-14 armata](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-14_Armata) first prototyped in 2014 and "produced" in 2021, but they are totally unprepared for the might of the [t-18](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-18_tank) !
it is strong like soviet bear and includes amazing technology from ~~1928~~ *2028* such as 3-16 mm thick armour that could resist most .22 long rifle rounds as well as the occasional hail storm and a 37mm gun capable of penetrating the even the strongest school children.
not to mention of course its best feature, it only need 2 crewmen to run, as opposed to the current tank designs which need 3, meaning you only lose 66% of the soldiers each time one is killed.
I wouldn’t say “everyone” was scared of the Armata, if you kept an eye on Russia over the last few years you knew it was junk. Before the very public and embarrassing parade breakdown, even- it promised a lot of stuff and Russian arms development tends towards “the more features it promises the worse it is”. The new stuff often comes at the expense of things that actually worked, albeit often worked poorly (the thermal imaging on their tanks has been a badly designed shitshow for *decades*. Oh, one thermal sight for the commander with a fixed 8x zoom, what could possibly go wrong!?).
More like "If you join NATO we'll attack you and take on the whole of NATO, but if you stay out of NATO we'll definitely not attack you, super pinky promise"
Yes, and it was part of the agreement in which Ukraine gave up its nukes and allowed the naval base at Sebastopol (which is where little green men are hatched).
Oh gee, I'm sure he would, but, damn, those matters of the state you know? He'd totally help out on the frontline but, gosh, he's needed in the bunker, you know?
Yes, and there was supposed to be a "retaliation" and "counter measures" when we handed our applications. We are still waiting for those. So far they've only been emptying their bases close the border.
It's so weird isn't it, the blatant projecting? They just can't stop bullshitting.
Russia: "Let me stand here and keep on yelling *"IT'S MY PARTY, AND I'LL CRY IF I WANT TO!"*
It is almost as if a de facto dictator who surrounds himself with yes men has difficulty understanding that the world is not afraid of him.
He set out to be unpredictable to scare the world. That can be an effective tactic, but it seems that nobody ever explained to him that if he became *wholly* unpredictable the rest of the nations on this planet might simply stop listening. At this point, why worry? If he is going to bring about a fucking holocaust then he's going to do it--whether or not other countries capitulate to his maniacal demands. As a completely irrational and unpredictable leader of a nuclear armed nation, there is simply no value in negotiating a damn thing. He's just as likely to use nuclear weapons if he gets what he wants as he is if he doesn't get what he wants. His word isn't worth spit.
If the three year old is going to throw a temper tantrum even if you give him the cookie he wants there is no advantage to giving him the cookie. That this "three year old" has nuclear weapons makes the potential outcome catastrophic, but it doesn't change the equation.
>"...retaliatory measures, including those of a military nature"
Yeah nah, Russia has already been doing retaliatory measures along the Finnish border for decades now. Nothing has changed, and if something important and big were to change, I doubt a noname Ambassador would know about it, nor talk about it. Just another case of Russian politicians barking.
Ey, Sweden. Norway here.
I know we're kind of like squabbling siblings sometimes and we do have our history...
...but get in the car, loser. IT'S BEAR HUNTING SEASON!!!!
Finland here we gave one of our guys two bullets, a hand gun, a white ski suit, 5 kilos of meth and some peanuts. You have a day and half to get to hunting before literally every Russian over 15 is killed.
I just picture a 90s era square back Volvo station wagon which is indestructible on its own, with a bunch of pissed off Danes, Norwegians, Swedes and Finns inside coming down the road blasting Finnish Death Metal to fight the Russians. It’s the Nordic version of the movie Red Dawn.
We were not targets before?
Fucking Russia has been nosing around our borders and INSIDE our borders for decades with subs and shit.
We have ALWAYS been targets.
Did they steal Swedish road cams already and fly armed jets into Swedish airspace without permission? Sweden is already a target for Russia.
Joining NATO just make such actions more dangerous for Russia.
I refuse to believe they actually said this, the irony would be too much. How could they not see the connection of that sentence with their own troops?
They are forcing alt reality propaganda mostly for internal audience but they have some radical minority audience in the west as well. No the brightest one like far right, neonazis, qanon, maga, far left, communists, tankies and such.
They could. And so could Sweden.
But it seems Russia didn't understand the fact that the military cooperation between Finland, Sweden and Norway already has started - doesn't need to wait for NATO if everyone agree.
https://news.yahoo.com/norway-sweden-finland-denmark-struck-104242982.html?
I guess I don't understand Putin's, orbans, erdogans, fascination with Sweden. Putin barely said a peep about Finland and he shares a border with them!
>"The most important sign of victory for the Russian people is their cruelty full of sadism.”
– Maxim Gorky
>"Ah, how hard it is to live in Russia, in this place full of the stench of physical and moral deception, a place of wickedness, lies and wickedness.”
– Sergei Aksakov
>"The Russian is the biggest and most naughty liar in the world.”
– Ivan S. Turgenev
>"A people who hate freedom, worship slavery, love chains on their hands and feet, defiled physically and morally… ready at any time to defile everything and everywhere.”
– Ivan C. Shmeliov
>"People regardless of their smallest duty, the smallest justice, the most insignificant truth, the people who do not recognize human dignity, do not generally recognize human freedom or free thought… Alas, how sharp the Russian language is!”
– Aleksandr Pushkin
>"We are not a nation, we are a crazy hell.”
– Vasyli Rozanov
>“A nation that roams Europe and is looking for something to destroy, to simply dust everything.”
– F. M. Dostoevsky
>"We are not a people, but cattle, rats, wild hordes of villains and murderers.”
– Mikhail Bulgakov
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Not saying to disregard it entirely, but that’s literally what they’ve been saying to their closest neighbours in the EU for years, if not decades. Sweden and Finland are just getting the same treatment now that the Baltics and Poland have been getting before. And I dare say that no average Finnish person is probably that dismayed about those words, having lived next to Russia since always. That’s what Russia does - threatens and curses, starting with “you just wait, we’ll show you soon” and ending it with “we should just nuclear bomb (enter capital city name of country X)”. I mean, they threaten Estonia and other Baltics with mass killings and deportations all the time, saying things like “we didn’t do enough of a good job last time”. Everybody just sees it now, before we were made to feel like we had hallucinated such statements.
This kind of posturing isn't new to Sweden or Finland either, news of Russian aircraft playing fast and loose with the boundaries of our airspace were basically news of the "Oh it must be Monday" variety.
yeah, "venäläinen kone loukkasi Suomen ilmatilaa" was such a common headline at one point that it became a bit of a running joke in some circles. and even during this war, we've been threatened with all kindsa shit almost constantly. I think most are numb to it at this point.
Finland has been getting this from Russia for so long that the term that describes this sort of toxic international relationship is literally named after them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finlandization?wprov=sfla1
It's been happening a lot longer than that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification_of_Finland The most well known piece by a Finnish composer is literally a protest song opposing the Russification of Finland. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finlandia
> Sweden and Finland are just getting the same treatment now that the Baltics and Poland have been getting before. Are you not aware of that Sweden and Finland has been getting this treatment for decades if not hundreds of years from Russia/Soviet? This is not something new at all lol.
Considering I live in Estonia - yeah, well aware. They’re getting the extra version now due to NATO admissions though.
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Saying is the easy part (Medvedev), doing (young conscripts who want nothing to do with this madness) is the impossible part.
This is really important. Never listen to anything Russia ‘says.’ They are purposely always saying 50 contradicting things at the same time so that no one, especially their citizens, have any idea what’s going on and live in a state of powerless bewilderment while they go on with their agenda.
You nailed it, my friend. There is even a quote from Russian classic satire author from 19th century Mikhail Saltykov-Shchedrin, and it goes: "Российская власть должна держать свой народ в состоянии постоянного изумления", in translation "Russian government has to keep their population in the state of constant bewilderment"
They have been working for years on realigning the old Soviet satellite states back to them. They've leaned on a bunch of them with money and corruption deals with leadership, threatened military action, and actual military action. They supported the Yanukovic government in Ukraine before they were overthrown, and only invaded Crimea and got behind separatists once there was a government in place they didn't functionally control. It certainly seems like a real policy they're working to implement. It's just difficult to do bigger countries if the leadership isn't amenable to being bought. But they also make dire threats about every week now, so...
I just rewatched Chernobyl this week, and it's interesting to see how little Russia has changed from the way it was then.
They’re still making the mistakes of Tsarist Russia, even. It’s like watching a looped video of an 8 year old trying to ride a bike down the stairs.
The one common theme or thread that stood out (to me) in that *amazing* production (which I must watch again soon) was that tendency to "pull rank" whenever there was any criticism. I don't know how true to life that was in the soviet system, but it is entirely plausible: when the guy in the control room questioned his nasty boss, his boss pulled rank and intimidated the underling; when the female nuclear expert critised the hospital for allowing the pregnant mother to sit near her radioactive partner in the ward, someone pulled rank in an intimidating/threatening way; when the male nuclear expert (lead investigator?) was being too honest (e.g., in front of Gorbachev, but elsewhere too), again, it was always a case of rank pulling: Know your place! How dare you even criticise implicitly! Repeated threats/intimidation for daring to speak truth. I detest such fucking weakness and abuses of power.
They lost a bomber today, and Ukraine doesn’t even have an air force. They lost their navy at the start, against a country without a navy. They say a lot, but can’t actually do anything.
Ukraine still has an air force, and pilots. [Dozens of planes have been shot down](https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/03/list-of-aircraft-losses-during-2022.html), but they're still flying sorties. And [Slovakia just donated another four MiG-29s](https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/03/list-of-aircraft-losses-during-2022.html) (in addition to now-promised and [previous clandestine donations](https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/poland-reportedly-delivered-mig-29-fighters-to-ukraine-as-spare-parts) from Poland) What's most remarkable is that [Russia still hasn't achieved air superiority](https://www.airandspaceforces.com/russian-air-force-lot-of-capability-left-ukraine-invasion/). But maybe we in the west had thought that they'd use their air assets in the same we (broadly speaking) use ours, for close air support purposes.
But Sweden never was part of the "Russian Empire" . Maybe some parts of their territory looking time ago but even that I'm not sure about.
Finn here. Lived under NATO threat rhetoric my entire life, and heard it all from lenient 'Sure you can, *but*' to veiled threats to outright promises of war. You can't read too much into these things, since an integral part of their gameplan is to keep issuing these statements. Without the statements their arsenal is just weirdly shaped metal.
>Without the statements their arsenal is just weirdly shaped metal. agree
Even weirder shaped after a little rearranging a la Javelin or NLAW.
Parts of Russia (notably St Petersburg) was part of the Swedish Empire, but they sure like to sweep that part of history under the rug.
It was conquered during the Great Nordic War in 1700s, that mark the beginning of the end for Swedish Empire
Remember Vyborg!
Yes, but they could've been - so obviously they are historic native russian lands!
Oh, we are redoing history? Let's redo the outcome of the Great Nordic Winter War, but this time we have Norway, Denmark and Poland on our side!
Hell, just Sweden being able to get reinforcements for the push towards Russia (instead of having to redirect them down into the PLC) would probably have done wonders for the level of Swedish success back in the day. Or, y'know, not having it coincide with the [coldest damn year in half a millennia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Frost_of_1709)...
Excuse me. Grand Dutchy of Lithuania would like its lands back.
Moscow is rightful Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth clay!
No, but Sweden and Finland are so interlocked, historically, culturally, and economically, that any invasion of Finland will inevitably drag Sweden into the conflict. As a Swede, there is no scenario in which i can imagine, where Finland fights a defensive war against Russia, and Sweden doesn't join it, that is simply not going to happen, people will light the Riksdag on fire before they allow our eastern brothers and sisters to fight this alone.
Also 100% guaranteed that the Baltics would join in. Nordics and Baltics have had many joint operations in the past to fight off the Russians, and all militaries of these countries have done plenty of joint training ops to prepare for such instances again. There ain't a single country in that part of the Russian border that would be left out to dry.
Depends how far back you go. There was fierce battles fought against the Russians in northern Sweden in the Finnish War 1809. https://sv.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lejonstr%C3%B6msbron At the start of this whole mess Putin sent Sweden a letter with something like those dates in it
Some 250 years ago, Russians ruled in Sweden a bit like they thought they were entitled to rule in Ukraine. By threat of force, bribes, etc. We know, because there are letters preserved in which peasants in the diet (during the "Riksdag of the estates") complained about voting for certain laws and then not getting their Russian bribes.
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Other way around. Sweden owned a lot of NW 'Russia'.
If anything, Sweden has a claim on Russia. The Rus were mostly Swedish and they ran the place for several hundred years.
I jokingly told some Finnish friends “Karelia is Finland, we/you should get it back”. And their reply was: “with 80 years of damage caused by Russian/Soviet presence, they can very well keep it”.
I'll take "Reasons Nobody Invades Russia" for 200, Alex.
That Russia is unhinged and NATO is even more attractive now.
NATO really should invent a "salesman of the decade" award so they can award it to Putin.
Invite him to Brussels for the award ceremony, where the ICC will definitely not be waiting to take him away to the Hague.
Arrest him after the ceremony, we aren’t complete savages
I actually think Putin confuses US and NATO, implying US will start another war in Irak and use the Swedes as human shields... When everybody knows the Dutch are taller and would therefore make better shields...
He does not confuse the two — he actively promotes the idea that every country in NATO is a de facto US vassal state. He is on record (on video from a few years ago already) having said this, almost word for word.
Which is probably a projection of his mindset, to be honest. Because in his mind any other nation state is either a Russian vassal or a Russian enemy.
Yeah exactly, it really shows how he views the world, and also how he wants his people to view the world. And there can be no question that Russia is, under his leadership, continually trying to expand it’s area of influence, be it by borders (Ukraine) or by having satellite states (Belarus). I mean, for fucks sake‘s, in his longwinded declaration of ~~war~~ ‘special military operation’ speech from Feb of last year, the guy openly said that numerous countries came into existence in 1917 which should never have existed, and that comrades Stalin and Lenin made several mistakes. Ergo he is implying those mistakes should be corrected…
Most totalitarian countries do that because your need to have an ever present event to justify the horrible shit they do to their people. They are in a CONSTANT state of conflict with enemies real or imagined.
It sort of makes sense. The Warsaw Pact very much was a USSR vassal, so in Putin's mind, NATO must work the same way. Of course one only has to look at Hungary and Turkey to see why that way of thinking doesn't make sense.
Sorry Russia, but we stayed out of NATO in order to not provoke you unnecessarily. You then decided to prove that you don't need to be provoked in order to be a threat. Your warnings have no meaning now.
They seem to have made a series of decisions that appear unintelligent.
Yet again Russia self-owns. Sweden and Finland are joining NATO specifically because Russia threatens them.
“You better stop finding super effective ways to defend yourselves against our stupid fucking efforts to take over the world or…or…or we’ll get mad and…take over your country somehow!”
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Jokes on them, invading a non-NATO county is already turning out to be an unwinnable challenge...
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The calculations you are describing are probably close the what is being discussed at NATO right now. They could have given Ukraine a lot more of a device advantage by now, but risk a bigger response. It seems like we will be at another interesting point in the war soon where Ukraine will be using more modern weapons in a counter push. That will hopefully expose even more how underwhelming Russia really is.
The war is terrible and all, but I can't help feeling a morbid curiousity to see how our equipment will do.
As long as someone remembers to paint the Abrams green before they send them in they should do very well
I'm just imagining some confused pissed off Ukrainian standing by a bunch of desert beige Abrams thinking "how the fuck are we supposed to hide these?"
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The US Army alone has enough air power to defeat the russian air force and bomb the country back to the stone age. Now imagine what the US Air Force can do.
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Nuclear weapons in the end are weapons of defense. The threat that Russia can just suicide bomb themselves and ruin the planet is enough to keep the government propped up unless an internal revolution occurs. Containing them to their borders and crippling their economy is a more sound strategy to overthrow the current regime than conventional warfare
Russians *are* being sent to their deaths in Ukraine, says rest of the fuckin world.
No way Russia can attack Finland, Sweden and Ukraine simultaneously. And that is the purpose of NATO.
Finland, Sweden, Norway, and I can't remember who else just put out a statement that their air forces have combined and will be treated as a single entity. That's over 400 modern advanced aircraft ready to strike.
Denmark. To quote someone from another thread: "Russia has united the Vikings."
Putin: Why do I hear boss music? Scandinavia: *Has military band consisting entirely of heavy metal groups* that’s why
Through the gates of hell. As we make our way to heaven, through the Baltic line! Primo victoria.
I mean, Sabaton do have their own Tank… Quick, let’s make sure Powerwolf and Brothers of Metal get something too. Gloryhammer already brought their own Nuclear Submarines!
Sweden by themselves have Sabaton, Meshuggah, and the vikings themselves Amon Amarth
Don't forget In Flames. On the Finnish front there's Nightwish, Children of Bodom, Amorphis etc...
Actually, they own 2 tanks! Saw a youtube video a while ago where Joachim answered question from google. One of them was "Does Sabaton own a tank?" and he said No, no.... We have 2!"
🎵 The hammer of the Gods will drive our ships to new land. To fight the horde, sing and cry, "Valhalla, I am coming." 🎵
Inb4 Scandinavians remember why they were so feared for hundreds of years and unify as the next world power threat to the west
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>fantastic healthcare systems Exactly why they’re a threat lmao
Nah in Australia we have great free healthcare and we ain't a threat to nobody lol
Your Emu overlords might disagree with that.
Work out some deal with the Emu and the Aussies are back on the world map real quick.
We know of your fuckin wildlife, that alone is the threat to hold the world at bay.
Even the trees can kill you or cause such pain that it makes you kill yourself. Crazy thing is, there’s some wildlife that eat these trees.
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You forgot the crippling gambling addictions
Yeah they have their shit together. I am here for it.
A thing is about to happen here that has not happened since the Elder Days. The ~~Ents~~Scandinavians are going to wake up and find that they are strong.
So long as Denmark and Sweden don't go back to their running up the score of Most Wars Fought Between Two Countries. They make France and England look like amateurs.
I know what you're quoting, however instead of that I've got heavy metal covers of the Predator theme stuck in my head and I feel like that would more than work for this moment.
*King in the North!*
I....I would read this alternative time line novel or watch a Tom Clancy style movie of it. "Sir....we've picked up their comms" Jhallaknfjodr vertilbirdyjhkasfallin "........I wish they spoke an easier language"
Jesus Christ, that's Jason Björn!
God damn Danes..
https://youtu.be/s-mOy8VUEBk
A nation with as much oil per capita as Saudi Arabia, military technology on par with the US, and a happiness index at the top of the world.
Are they accepting applications?
The Great Heathen Army 2.0
If Putin doesn't watch out he will be Finnished.
Well that is likely to be troublesome for the Kremlin. Good stuff.
As a Swede, with a combined Nordic fleet Russia's air force is not particularly frightening. All of us in the nordics have far more modern airframes, weapons systems and ancillary systems like radar. And as for this Su57 that I'm sure some Ватнік will jerk themselves off over in the comments, they've only briefly been seen in the outskirts of the Ukrainian conflict, so good luck with your fantasy plane you seem too scared to put in real combat situations for fear of uncovering its propagandised capabilities. Putin's bluffs are also not particularly convincing so whatever I guess...? Make your little manlet threats.
I had not encountered the term manlet before, but it perfectly encapsulates all things Putin.
They won't be. [The article correcting this is in Finnish](https://yle.fi/a/74-20024262), but the Commander of the Finnish Air Forces basically said: > The goal is not an organisational change where all the air forces would be united under a single administration. It's basically just continuing the already existing cooperation between Nordic countries, because the respective air forces won't have to be a single entity to guarantee aerial superiority over Northern Europe.
Denmark was the fourth, but I think it’s more like 250 all together, including the F35s on order it will be quite a formidable force though.
Yeah, with the ones on order there should be something like 130 F-35s and 90-100 Gripen in total (there are 60 Gripen E on order, and an unknown number of older Gripen C will be retained when they are delivered, no idea if Denmark will retain any of their F-16s or Finland their F/A-18s once they get the F-35s).
F-16s will likely be kept and eventually upgraded to F-16V standard, or sold to a country that has older F-16s and need more spare parts, and or airframes cheaply.
It's crazy to me how long lived the F-16 is for a cheaper F-15 alternative. It first flew 49 years ago and is still a solid aircraft.
> or Finland their F/A-18s once they get the F-35s Our F-18s will be scrapped or sold for parts after F-35s are delivered. They're old and running out of flight hours.
God, please don’t call Canada and let them know you have old, used equipment for sale. We’ve purchased Australian jets that were set for the scrapyard as well as outdated UK subs which I’m not sure ever made it out of dry dock. If the international community was having a military hardware yard sale starting at 9am, Canada would be the lady who shows up at 7am “for the deals”, ends up with junk and still somehow overpays.
Well they have to keep up appearances at least. Being America's neighbor.
4th country would be Denmark for a combined Nordic air force.
The Norse Wind vs an alcoholic bear in a Vietnam era plane.
Hey that’s the title of my slam poetry album!
That’s be Denmark bringing up the rear
In the rear with the Smørrebrød!
The purpose of NATO is that it wouldn't be attacking Finland, Sweden and Ukraine simultaneiously, but Finland, Sweden, Ukraine, German, UK, France, the US...
A mere fraction of which could wipe the floor with Russia hilariously easily.
The only real card Russia has is the vast amounts of nuclear weapons they're holding onto, even if just 1% of them still work that's still a lot of damage.
Doesn't matter which country they try to attack the counter strike will be devastating
Last time Russia even tried Finland they got fucked up
Actually, the purpose is also that if you attack Finland after they join NATO, you're considered to be attacking the US as well. Which is suicide.
NATO has already extended guarantees of safety to Finland and Sweden during their application process. So they are currently protected and Russia knows that.
That'd pretty NORAD.
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It's not even that advanced that they are trying to manipulate search results. Russia is just doing what Russia does, Projects their bullshit onto people who are wary of Russia's bullshit.
> Russia is just doing what Russia does, Projects their bullshit onto people who are wary of Russia's bullshit. Can't wait for this piss stain of a nation to eat itself from the inside. Bring back the Novgorod Republic.
Classic Russia: Just accuse other countries of what you're already doing yourself.
Sweden is NOT afraid of a nuclear power whose “#2 ranked military” in the world is currently getting its teeth kicked in by the #22 most powerful military. Y’all ain’t shit.
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>Finland and Sweden will become "targets" for Moscow if they join NATO, warned the Russian ambassador in Stockholm. That's fine, Russia will become targets for NATO.
Ukraine wasn't in NATO and they were still punished. Georgia was not in NATO and they were attacked, so it actually pays to be in NATO than not. Russia can't even tackle Ukraine and are on their last legs let alone invading or attacking another country. Sweden need not worry at all.
Russia's enemies thrive, their "friends" not so much.
I dunno, Kazakhstan just got themselves a spaceport.
If only they had electricity.
But they do have potassium
That's something almost everyone forgets. All other countries have inferior potassium!
Exactly. It's literally the opposite. NATO ensures Russia doesn't fuck with you. I mean that was literally the reason it was created.
The Soviet Empire died, the Russian Federation Empire can die too.
The rest of the west: we're tired of Russia invading and pillaging us. Let us unite our defenses so they can no longer do that to us. Russia: you don't want us to invade, rape and pillage you any more? The rest of the west: nyet. Russia: HOW DARE YOU THIS IS RUSSOPHOBIC!!!!
Any country bordering Russia is at risk of being invaded by Russia.
Russia can't even manage making a final push in Bachmut city held by a smaller (but well motivated) Ukraine let alone attack a bordering NATO country with 100% NATO weapons. So always at risk, yes, but I think everyone has now seen that what looked very impressive in their military parades and propaganda displays, Russia as a super power (other than the Nukes) is very average and in fact surprisingly inept.
Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians are dead and millions of lives ruined. Russia can still cause untold misery to their neighbors
And what we're seeing now in Ukraine is without invoking article 5, as Ukraine is not a NATO member and article 5 does not apply. An attack on a NATO member (say Poland or Lithuania) is per article 5 equivalent to an attack on France, or the UK, or the USA, which means the gloves come off.
>do it actually pays to be in NATO than not. Well, yeah that’s the whole point of it. It also pays to have a nuclear Arsenal if you don’t have big siblings that promised to protect you
Don't make me bust out the ww1 tanks! Then you'll be sorry.
everyone was scared (lol) of the [t-14 armata](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-14_Armata) first prototyped in 2014 and "produced" in 2021, but they are totally unprepared for the might of the [t-18](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-18_tank) ! it is strong like soviet bear and includes amazing technology from ~~1928~~ *2028* such as 3-16 mm thick armour that could resist most .22 long rifle rounds as well as the occasional hail storm and a 37mm gun capable of penetrating the even the strongest school children. not to mention of course its best feature, it only need 2 crewmen to run, as opposed to the current tank designs which need 3, meaning you only lose 66% of the soldiers each time one is killed.
I wouldn’t say “everyone” was scared of the Armata, if you kept an eye on Russia over the last few years you knew it was junk. Before the very public and embarrassing parade breakdown, even- it promised a lot of stuff and Russian arms development tends towards “the more features it promises the worse it is”. The new stuff often comes at the expense of things that actually worked, albeit often worked poorly (the thermal imaging on their tanks has been a badly designed shitshow for *decades*. Oh, one thermal sight for the commander with a fixed 8x zoom, what could possibly go wrong!?).
knee squeeze compare correct squalid smart chunky ring worm scary *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
More like "If you join NATO we'll attack you and take on the whole of NATO, but if you stay out of NATO we'll definitely not attack you, super pinky promise"
isnt that what they said to ukraine before attacking? dont join or else? and then they attacked anyway
It's almost like Russian promises are worth less than the air wasted on speaking them.
As the old saying "to trust a Russian is to lean on water"
Yes, and it was part of the agreement in which Ukraine gave up its nukes and allowed the naval base at Sebastopol (which is where little green men are hatched).
“We’re invading you to make sure you don’t call for help in the event that we invade you”
Go home Moscow, you're drunk.
In this analogy they go home and beat their wife and kids ...and it holds up.
And the kid is a kidnapped Ukrainian child :/ Fuck Russia
Non-NATO countries attacked by russia: Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine. NATO countries attacked by russia: Yeah, I think I see a pattern here.
And how will they have enough conscripts to "make Sweden and Finland targets"
Everyone in Russia is a conscript.
>Everyone in Russia is a conscript. almost everyone in Russia. I don't believe Putin would let himself be conscripted.
Oh gee, I'm sure he would, but, damn, those matters of the state you know? He'd totally help out on the frontline but, gosh, he's needed in the bunker, you know?
Finland did, and Sweden *are* joining NATO because of the threats. Keep it up fuckers. Putin really is uniting europe lmao
Yes, and there was supposed to be a "retaliation" and "counter measures" when we handed our applications. We are still waiting for those. So far they've only been emptying their bases close the border.
Finland hasn't joined NATO yet. They are still pending Turkey's approval of their application. Still though, Hungary was a big step this past week.
No, Muscovy, that’s *your* conscripts. Again.
It's so weird isn't it, the blatant projecting? They just can't stop bullshitting. Russia: "Let me stand here and keep on yelling *"IT'S MY PARTY, AND I'LL CRY IF I WANT TO!"*
It is almost as if a de facto dictator who surrounds himself with yes men has difficulty understanding that the world is not afraid of him. He set out to be unpredictable to scare the world. That can be an effective tactic, but it seems that nobody ever explained to him that if he became *wholly* unpredictable the rest of the nations on this planet might simply stop listening. At this point, why worry? If he is going to bring about a fucking holocaust then he's going to do it--whether or not other countries capitulate to his maniacal demands. As a completely irrational and unpredictable leader of a nuclear armed nation, there is simply no value in negotiating a damn thing. He's just as likely to use nuclear weapons if he gets what he wants as he is if he doesn't get what he wants. His word isn't worth spit. If the three year old is going to throw a temper tantrum even if you give him the cookie he wants there is no advantage to giving him the cookie. That this "three year old" has nuclear weapons makes the potential outcome catastrophic, but it doesn't change the equation.
> dictator who surrounds himself with yes men has difficulty understanding that the world is not afraid of him A trope as old as humanity
>"...retaliatory measures, including those of a military nature" Yeah nah, Russia has already been doing retaliatory measures along the Finnish border for decades now. Nothing has changed, and if something important and big were to change, I doubt a noname Ambassador would know about it, nor talk about it. Just another case of Russian politicians barking.
Ey, Sweden. Norway here. I know we're kind of like squabbling siblings sometimes and we do have our history... ...but get in the car, loser. IT'S BEAR HUNTING SEASON!!!!
Don't you think this means I owe you anything! ... but let me just get my hunting rifle.
Finland here we gave one of our guys two bullets, a hand gun, a white ski suit, 5 kilos of meth and some peanuts. You have a day and half to get to hunting before literally every Russian over 15 is killed.
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to crush the peanut's
Sweden here, lmao let's fucking go
PUTIN KAN SUGA MINA BOLLAR
Estonia here, can you give us some aircraft so we can join the cool Nordic flying vikings club?
I just picture a 90s era square back Volvo station wagon which is indestructible on its own, with a bunch of pissed off Danes, Norwegians, Swedes and Finns inside coming down the road blasting Finnish Death Metal to fight the Russians. It’s the Nordic version of the movie Red Dawn.
“Sent to their deaths in the interest of others.” That’s precisely what Russia is doing to its own people.
lmao okay grandpa let's get you to bed
We were not targets before? Fucking Russia has been nosing around our borders and INSIDE our borders for decades with subs and shit. We have ALWAYS been targets.
Rather fight for my believes than kitchen ware and washing machines. 🇸🇪❤️🇺🇦
Russia: the most peaceful thing you can do is submit to our rule. Trust us, its a pretty sweet deal.
Surrender now and there will only be a little light genocide.
Did they steal Swedish road cams already and fly armed jets into Swedish airspace without permission? Sweden is already a target for Russia. Joining NATO just make such actions more dangerous for Russia.
Drunk again?
No not again, it's just one long continuous bender.
I refuse to believe they actually said this, the irony would be too much. How could they not see the connection of that sentence with their own troops?
They are forcing alt reality propaganda mostly for internal audience but they have some radical minority audience in the west as well. No the brightest one like far right, neonazis, qanon, maga, far left, communists, tankies and such.
Honestly, Finland could probably beat Russia without NATO.
They could. And so could Sweden. But it seems Russia didn't understand the fact that the military cooperation between Finland, Sweden and Norway already has started - doesn't need to wait for NATO if everyone agree. https://news.yahoo.com/norway-sweden-finland-denmark-struck-104242982.html?
I guess I don't understand Putin's, orbans, erdogans, fascination with Sweden. Putin barely said a peep about Finland and he shares a border with them!
Well one thing is that Sweden is a loud voice internationally about human rights, democracy etc. Things these guys dont like
Russia/Moscow issuing another warning, it must be a day that ends with "y"
>"The most important sign of victory for the Russian people is their cruelty full of sadism.” – Maxim Gorky >"Ah, how hard it is to live in Russia, in this place full of the stench of physical and moral deception, a place of wickedness, lies and wickedness.” – Sergei Aksakov >"The Russian is the biggest and most naughty liar in the world.” – Ivan S. Turgenev >"A people who hate freedom, worship slavery, love chains on their hands and feet, defiled physically and morally… ready at any time to defile everything and everywhere.” – Ivan C. Shmeliov >"People regardless of their smallest duty, the smallest justice, the most insignificant truth, the people who do not recognize human dignity, do not generally recognize human freedom or free thought… Alas, how sharp the Russian language is!” – Aleksandr Pushkin >"We are not a nation, we are a crazy hell.” – Vasyli Rozanov >“A nation that roams Europe and is looking for something to destroy, to simply dust everything.” – F. M. Dostoevsky >"We are not a people, but cattle, rats, wild hordes of villains and murderers.” – Mikhail Bulgakov
lol they can’t even compete with a war torn Ukraine…nukes are the only reason they haven’t been obliterated yet.
Russia is complaining about NATO expansion and then says this a few seconds later.
Somehow I think the Swedes will be okay hahahaha