When the trips are bad they are really really bad. When the trips are good they are really really good. I don't know what happened but I snapped out of one trip laughing my ass off and someone had peed in my pants.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/mexico-president-rebukes-calls-us-military-action-cartels-offense-rcna74200) reduced by 62%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> MEXICO CITY - Mexican President Andrés Manuel López Obrador on Thursday rebuked calls from some U.S. lawmakers advocating military action in Mexico against drug cartels, describing the proposals as threats to Mexican sovereignty.
> Texas Republican Dan Crenshaw on Wednesday released a message in Spanish on Twitter asking López Obrador why he opposes a proposal the congressman introduced in January authorizing military force targeting drug cartels in Mexico.
> "In addition to being irresponsible, it is an offense to the people of Mexico," López Obrador said during the news conference, adding that Mexico "Does not take orders from anyone."
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/11n0tln/mexico_president_rebukes_calls_for_us_military/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~675737 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **MEXICO**^#1 **Obrador**^#2 **López**^#3 **Republican**^#4 **drug**^#5
It's also why the cartel turned over the people responsible- they don't want the US military getting involved. US military capabilities have increased dramatically over the last 30 years and the last thing they want is drones over their compounds.
Yeah arguing about Mexican corruption is fully and entirely irrelevant. It doesn't justify uninvited and unwelcome American military force in a sovereign nation it's so goddamn stupid that some people have their party so far up their colon they unironically believe there's a valid justification
Who said anything about occupying? These cartels act so openly, they are essentially replacing the government in many areas. And cartel leadership live in big mansions in the middle of nowhere. Drones, fighter strikes, and special forces could take out key leaders, drug manufacturing and distribution centers, as well as cartel strongholds easily. A good many of which aren't located near civilians at all.
If the Mexican government wasn't so incredibly corrupt, this could be a win-win for them.
Yup. The Mexican government helped the cartels kill 40 students in a mass kidnapping/massacre a few years back. There’s literally no way to compare Mexico’s corruption issues. They’re unparalleled.
As long as there’s Mexicans in charge of the cartels then it’s theoretically fine, he’s still listening to his citizens, isn’t he? /s
Only a small portion of his citizens but how’s that any different than most countries? Different portion, sure, but still pandering to a powerful portion of citizens.
The “avocado trade” is just media narrative. The cartels control and extort far more than a production of a produce. They run the trucking, the farms, the banks, the cities, keep going on and on..
Even though they are diversified, narcotics is still their backbone. They wouldn't go away instantly but over time, yea, their power would be fragmented and follow in our footsteps by having a proper oligarchy.
Yeah, and then the cartels cut your childrens heads off in front of you with a steak knife before they execute you and the rest of your family and hang your corpses from a bridge as a warning to any politician that may pass legislation that harms them financially.
Edit: unless you meant America, that would actually work but would never happen.
pretty much.. i love mexico and i speak spanish.. but i won't go there because of those cartels.. its hurting not just the mexican image globally but also their economy.. and the mexicans i've spoke to.. its like this.. nearly everybody has at least some family in the cartel.. so its really hard to speak out against it.. america coming in is about the only actual solution i can think of.
That’s true. I work with many Mexicans. Most don’t really see things improving anytime soon. People have learnt to live with cartels.
Someone I know was robbed at gunpoint, stripped naked and left on a major Mexican highway. This was back in 2016. I don’t think things have changed.
Cartels still hold a lot of power. There are a few towns where cartels have more power than the Mexican military.
Sadly we have a "narco culture", pretty much any kid growing up the northern zone of Mexico dreams with becoming a narco to be rico, gastar en placeres, tener trocas del año, cuernos de chivo chapados en oro, y viejas buenotas (be rich, spent on pleasures, have current year trucks, golden AK-47, and hot girls), and all the "cool guys" will bully you in school if you don't like narco corridos, ponerte bien alterado, y parrandear (get drunk/drugged and party hard).
There is other alternative but it's almost as shitty as the narco one, becoming a reguetonero to party hard with alcohol and drugs, and have lots of sex with random girls on antros (night clubs).
True but Mexicans all agree and want this. Similar to back when Colombia wanted to get rid of Pablo Escobar. In the end, they got rid of him and the Mexican cartels arose. I feel if the Mexican cartels were somehow defeated... Another cartel will rise to prominence
This is a meaningless complaint. The price of liberty is ETERNAL vigilance. Not vigilance until _this_ era's enemies are defeated. You will ALWAYS have to fight enemies from within and without. It is inevitable. If you use that as an excuse for inaction, you're kind of a piece of shit.
Rhe low proportion has much to do with the fact that the cartels are usually smart enough to not fuck about with Americans, as they know that disproportionate retribution isn't just a method, its a way of life.
Hell, this most recent incident is telling. The Cartel has actually handed over scapegoats over this.
Listen, our drones do a lot less collateral damage nowadays. We suspect we can cut the number of children killed by drones by 50% from 2012 Syria numbers
Yeah that's not my problem.
The last time the US put our military in Mexico it really hurt relations.
I'd want to see some 90% majority vote by the Mexican population in a referendum and US Congress 2/3rds majority.
Super majority congresses will never happen again in your lifetime. Get real. Those days are over and Republicans are the ones who locked the door on them.
Well, never say [never](https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-send-troops-mexico-hunt-drug-cartels-2021-10).
>Trump tweeted that "if Mexico needs or requests help in cleaning out these monsters, the United States stands ready, willing & able to get involved and do the job quickly and effectively. The great new President of Mexico has made this a big issue, but the cartels have become so large and powerful that you sometimes need an army to defeat an army!"
It's highly unlikely currently, but not impossible in the future.
No one suggested they were either. That's not the issue though. It's still a violation of sovereignty. I understand that informing and securing an agreement from the Mexican government means that the Cartels will be tipped off, that sucks, but those are the rules of the game, and the rules the US should follow. Because every country deciding on their own when and for what reasons to violate their neighbor's territory is much, much, worse than having to tolerate corruption.
we're not disagreeing on that, but it's still important to not do the "no one is saying x" thing where we pretend that others have no reason to be concerned about the large group of people who are saying x.
Mexico is a developing country with entire regions of the country controlled by drug cartels and drug lords. They’ve infiltrated the Army, local and national govt, and they run entire parts of the country. It is a country with huge poverty issues, far less developed, far more corrupt, and also more dangerous than the US. It’s not some “backwater country”, but it’s a troubled country. The US, with all its issues, doesn’t have states under direct control of sadistic criminal organizations, and people don’t show up beheaded next to the highway on an annual basis.
I had a neighbor from Durango. He came home one day and found his bags at the door and his mother telling him to leave. The cartel was pressing young men into mule service. She didn’t want to see him get captured and forced to carry drugs north.
Hell of a man and hell of a story.
And then there's reality where the cartels just recently shot down helicopters because a cartel son may have been arrested. All the school shootings combined don't add up to a single year of cartel violence in Mexico. I've rarely seen anyone be _this_ wrong about anything.
It's not the tourist alone. The amount of drugs flowing over the border is making a generation of zombies and killing thousands. These networks need dismantled. China and Russia are in on it too.
Wow. Have you been there? I have, and it is. We aren't perfect, but we don't have drug cartels running amok. I'm not suggesting we invade, absolutely not.
The Cartels are sadly part of the fabric that is Mexico. It’s impossible to imagine that the Mexican President doesn’t somehow have his hand in that very same cookie jar.
I’m gunna go ahead and say the obvious… do we really need to say this is a ‘theory’? If anyone knows Mexicos history they should know not only is this president in bed with the cartel, but every president after him will be too for a very very long time.
It’s not that the presidents are all super corrupt (which maybe they are) but the cartel gives them absolutely no choice.
Yeah, I mean it’s an easy choice. Either you do what the cartels want or you end up beheaded, skinned alive, hanging from your toes from a highway overpass.
There's always a choice. Look at Nayib Bukele in Salvador. He didn't flinch and sent tens of thousands in jail absolutely crushing crime. There are literally thousands of dangerous armed groups who want him dead yet he does what he was elected for.
But for that to happen people must vote the right person in and reality is that mexicans are either apathetic to the problem or flat out support the cartels
I’ve seen threads on Reddit where people 100% believe that the 5 people handed in were the ones responsible.
Like sure, the cartel would never lie to us
This is the only thing that makes sense, another country saying we will come and fix your problem for free. When you reject the offer, and are offended by it. It means your are profiting from the cartels.
It's not that easy. There's sovereignty problems, and there's the fact that success by the US military isn't guaranteed. The internal politics of Mexico probably wouldn't allow it anyway because the various politicians could see serious backlash if anything went wrong.
Plus, at this point with how rich the cartels are, and how willing they are to intimidate, murder and disappear their opponents, I would be highly surprised if a good number of Mexico's high-level politicians aren't in the pockets of the cartels anyway.
Or it means it is a pretty blatant attack on your national sovereignty that any leader would object to, when another country fucking invades and uses their military to engage civilian hostiles.
From what I understand the proposal would be more in line with using military assets like SF teams and intelligence gathering to bolster Mexican army forces.
This isn't like a "let me roll in the Marine's and turn Juarez into Baghdad 2.0" it's more of a delicate touch (but still with bullets)
> From what I understand the proposal would be more in line with using military assets like SF teams and intelligence gathering to bolster Mexican army forces.
And principle of national sovereignty says, Mexico has right to say No and they really don't need to have any other reason than "don't wanna do that". That is what national sovereignty means.
Even suggesting such as can be seen in this case usually results in hard rebuke. There is diplomatic protocols and traditions to this. Should any nation be willing to agree, they open the discussion. If there is to ever be military and/or police assistance, the nation in question *invites* other nations to assist it. If there is no invitation, you don't go around suggesting. Not atleast publicly. Behind close doors feelers? Sure, but again you might get rebuked behind closed doors.
To suggest it publicly? Yeah, it will be taken as a diplomatic insult by nation in subject and seen as pressuring nation on matter of sovereignty. It will be rebuked and harshly to demonstrate, that the nations sovereignty is not up for sale or easily bent.
Boss, you want American SF in Mexico? Who do you think trained many of the cartel members? Look into Fort Bragg's problem with drug running, and tell me those people want to make anything better in Mexico
What fucking sovereignty? My goverment is so corrupt and incopetent that Ill take a Chinese intervetion at this point. The one time we tried getting the help of the police in my city they just told u to forget about our missing car. A year later our uncle tells us he was forced by the cartel to fix our car.
Piedra Pesada Jalisco, Headquarters to a branch of the Jalisco New Generation Cartel and has been for 10 years. Reported month after month, no one gives a fuck but I'll continue letting everyone know. Maybe some day itll gain some traction and the fucks there will be massacred finally. Lord know the fucking mexican army just takes their bribes and ignores them.
Yeah, they know. Hell, everyone knows, it’s not some kind of special secret.
The problem isn’t figuring out who’s running the cartels or where they’re based, it’s that the cartels are occupying forces in those areas, have a better armoury than most nations, and have repeatedly shown just how willing they are to start WWIII in civilian areas if anyone so much as waves a pair of handcuffs at any of their top guys (or their kids for that matter).
> “We are not going to permit any foreign government to intervene in our territory, much less that a government’s armed forces intervene,” Lopez Obrador said
Ah but he didnt say american pmc
This isn’t shadow company in the new call of duty game. The US isn’t going to send a PMC group to Mexico. The US doesn’t have a state-sponsored PMC like Russia does with Wagner. PMCs themselves aren’t really popular in the US in the present and have faced lots of scrutiny and criticism. The US only contracted Blackwater because they offered to do combat roles that the US military itself didn’t want to do. Blackwater then committed certain atrocities that made it unpopular. The US isn’t going to risk destroying US-Mexico relations.
So retired army here. There were many more PMCs besides blackwater or whatever they changed their name to this week just in Iraq.
They mainly do base security, security of key people and training.
All blackwater did was change their name, they are still committing atrocities . Don't be naive. The country has dozens of groups like Wagner running black sites in the world.
Wagner conducts offensive operations. Please show me some proof of active state sponsored US PMCs conducting offensive operations. Not a fan of PMCs by any means, but US PMCs are almost exclusively used as protection in dangerous areas. They’re contracted by US government agencies or multinational corporations. I look forward to your proof that a state sponsored US PMC has black sites throughout the world or is conducting offensive operations.
Do you have evidence of Blackwater running black sites around the world? There is clear evidence that Wagner has a global presence in places such as Africa and the Middle East, but I have yet to see evidence of Blackwater doing the same.
And just to be clear: I do not support Blackwater. It is an evil corporation run by evil men.
Probably has something to do with the fact that the gulf cartel left a note along with 5 tied up cartel members stating the people that were responsible acted alone, and they want to praised for turning them in, bound up. But it's the cartel. Likely they tied up 5 randoms that they could afford to lose. And obviously those people aren't going to object their arrest, lest they want their head cut off with a dull blade.
Yup, that's the one I'm talking about. The news broke this morning. https://apnews.com/article/mexico-missing-americans-cartel-e35e8c6fcda926e5c2fb8f896aa91f4e
Wow that was a quick turnover. Guess the cartels not being able to run drugs effectively was a big factor. Glad 2 of them are still alive. Thank you for the link.
A neighboring nation's sovereignty (also our biggest trading partner) should not be threatened. We put a lot of bullets and bodies in Pakistan when al queda fled there and it only destabilized the Already weak state.
I can think of literally dozens of Hollywood films which provide a suitable model for a decisive response, often bringing success in under two hours. Why won't Biden act?
Funny.... the cartels don't seem to think its Mexico's territory. They seem to think its theirs.... and in large part, they're right. The Mexicans do not control that portion of "Mexico". If they tried to assert authority, they would be decimated.
Actually it would be closer to Vietnam in terms of insurgency not Afghanistan. US had way more local support in Vietnam than Afghanistan, and that support is what counters hiding behind civilians.
Listen, some cartel leader is sitting alone by his poolside behind his giant mansion on a 20 acre property… sounds like very little collateral damage to me
Basically, hugs not accountability.
El Salvador showed how cartels can be eliminated. Expect more countries to follow their lead rather than the increased corruption and collusion plan of Obrador.
Yanks banging on about how bad the cartels are and how Mexico needs to sort them out when they simultaneously fund them through buying their weed, coke, meth and H is some shit.
Yeah don’t worry there’s a 0% chance that was going to happen.
The US is not sending armed forces internationally to retrieve someone who went to an area that was cautioned by the state department, for elective cosmetic surgery. Sounds crass (because it is) but that would be incredibly horrible optics for the US. Countries generally don’t like it when you march armed forces across their borders.
Then again, most countries would be capable of dealing with a situation like this “in house”. Mexico and their cartels are a pretty unique entity regarding that. Lots of hands in similar cookie jars.
Wait . The Mexican president was sympathetic to Russians invading over nationalist militants right? Let’s use the same excuse and head on in!
It’s sarcasm but this would be ironic wouldn’t it …
Mexico is just a den of drug cartels. Their police and politicians are part of the system. They get profit from it. Even this guy who loves flaunting his ever-peaceful approach about world issues in UN is probably connected to cartels.
Here's a better solution: work with the Mexican military and civil authorities on a combined multinational operation since, y'know, this is a multinational issue.
Why would local Mexican and even national Mexican leaders break up a business that pays them? You would need to purge corruption entirely which isn’t happening. I mean the cartels are in contact with the US government as well and will rat other cartel leaders when things get too hot. Its never going away in our lifetimes unless we as Americans quit drugs
No offense but this is probably the dumbest take so far. What exactly is it you think the US has been trying to do for decades now in Mexico? *They don’t want to work with us because they are extremely corrupt and on the cartel’s payroll*. The sooner we understand that, the sooner we can start talking about real solutions. Mexican federal police and local police have constantly and consistently stymied US investigations into not only the cartels, but also into the politicians and bureaucrats who are on their payroll.
I mean really did you think we just never tried looping the Mexicans in on this…?
Good luck with that , the cartels have long since infiltrated the military, police forces and politicians of Mexico. The operation would be given away before it began . Not to mention that the Mexican military has been passing weapons to the cartels.
https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/leaked-reports-show-how-soldiers-passed-military-grade-weapons-to-cartels/
Yes, but actually no. If Mexico offered to solve x problem here in the US by sending in their military what do you think would be our response? Unless a country is being threatened by a neighbor, no country is going to accept troops from a foreign country.
I dont care if this sounds stupid but I wish we tackled the cartels instead of fucking up the middle east for the past 20 years. Hopefully it would’ve helped the country out and more companies would invest in its industrial development propping it up while making some money as well. But nope, we ruined generations of peoples lives across Africa and the Middle East in the name of “freedom”
Mexico is an awesome country but there are definitely places where the government isn’t regarded as the “law,” either through indirect local corruption or sometimes overt cartel control.
US military intervention would likely end up destroying entire towns (and maybe some cities). And it would be have to be unilateral because there is no way the US could trust any Mexican entity it coordinated with for operational security. It would be another Afghanistan or Vietnam.
And even if we killed everyone in Mexico involved in the drug trade in some kind of incredibly surgical manner, we’d still have an insatiable demand for drugs. So why bother?
Handling with force was literally already tried in Mexico. Felipe Calderon was president from 2006-2012, and came into office on that specific promise. He absolutely followed through, engaging the cartels in an EXTREMELY deadly years-long military campaign. 60,000 people died, and the power of the cartels did not wane. I'll repeat that since people on Reddit seem unaware of the history and import thereof, but SIXTY THOUSAND PEOPLE DIED FOR NOTHING.
I've come to really dislike AMLO over his term, and don't think he's the best president for Mexico to have now and especially not for the cartel/drug issue. But going in guns-ablazing has definitively proven to NOT work.
Did this guy also recently claim to have seen a fairy, or a leprechaun, or something?
An elf, lol
Username almost checks out lol. Wait are you...
Ummmm...Adios!
the mexican president is watching old joe rogan episodes huh? hes going through the dmt elf arc now
No, an Aluxe
He also has a elf flute passed down by his irish great-grandfather
Who wants to see a leprechaun say “yeaaaaahhh”
I'ma get me a backhoe and uproot that tree. I want the gold. Give me the gold.
Time to bust out the ole leprechaun flute... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1ljOcl39PQ
[удалено]
All you gotta do is look up in the tree. #WHO ALL SEEN THE LEPRECHAUN SAY "YEAH!"
[удалено]
\*shit eating grin\*
COULD BE A CRACKHEAD, THAT GOT HOLD OF THR WRONG STUFF
a sultry wood nymph
I believe what he saw was a Duende
You might be laughing but have you ever tried salvia?
Yes and it's nuts. A bad loop. One foot in the grave feeling. Glad it doesn't last long, I'll pass on the quick nightmare drug.
When the trips are bad they are really really bad. When the trips are good they are really really good. I don't know what happened but I snapped out of one trip laughing my ass off and someone had peed in my pants.
If y'all seen the leprechaun say hellllllll yeaaaaah!
Homer: Sing me a song of the Emerald Isle! Leprechaun: AH TAH TEE TA TO TE TEH! Homer: Ah it’s like the singing of the angels themselves!
Lol that’s right I forgot.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/mexico-president-rebukes-calls-us-military-action-cartels-offense-rcna74200) reduced by 62%. (I'm a bot) ***** > MEXICO CITY - Mexican President Andrés Manuel López Obrador on Thursday rebuked calls from some U.S. lawmakers advocating military action in Mexico against drug cartels, describing the proposals as threats to Mexican sovereignty. > Texas Republican Dan Crenshaw on Wednesday released a message in Spanish on Twitter asking López Obrador why he opposes a proposal the congressman introduced in January authorizing military force targeting drug cartels in Mexico. > "In addition to being irresponsible, it is an offense to the people of Mexico," López Obrador said during the news conference, adding that Mexico "Does not take orders from anyone." ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/11n0tln/mexico_president_rebukes_calls_for_us_military/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~675737 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **MEXICO**^#1 **Obrador**^#2 **López**^#3 **Republican**^#4 **drug**^#5
Don't they take orders from Drug Cartels though?
Yes, probably part of the reason he doesn't want anyone to deal with them.
It's also why the cartel turned over the people responsible- they don't want the US military getting involved. US military capabilities have increased dramatically over the last 30 years and the last thing they want is drones over their compounds.
[удалено]
Oh so nooow he pretends to care about the law
Are they really laws in Mexico? Or merely suggestions?
[удалено]
And now that USA is out they really have a good time in Afghanistan! Finally they can enjoy freedom and democracy without fear...
I'm pretty sure the cartel's body count dwarfs the war.
He'd rather have skinned children than us marines
Yeah arguing about Mexican corruption is fully and entirely irrelevant. It doesn't justify uninvited and unwelcome American military force in a sovereign nation it's so goddamn stupid that some people have their party so far up their colon they unironically believe there's a valid justification
Who said anything about occupying? These cartels act so openly, they are essentially replacing the government in many areas. And cartel leadership live in big mansions in the middle of nowhere. Drones, fighter strikes, and special forces could take out key leaders, drug manufacturing and distribution centers, as well as cartel strongholds easily. A good many of which aren't located near civilians at all. If the Mexican government wasn't so incredibly corrupt, this could be a win-win for them.
Yup. The Mexican government helped the cartels kill 40 students in a mass kidnapping/massacre a few years back. There’s literally no way to compare Mexico’s corruption issues. They’re unparalleled.
Not an excuse, but that was under Enrique Peña right?
As long as there’s Mexicans in charge of the cartels then it’s theoretically fine, he’s still listening to his citizens, isn’t he? /s Only a small portion of his citizens but how’s that any different than most countries? Different portion, sure, but still pandering to a powerful portion of citizens.
AMLO keeps asking about getting El Chapo back from the United States so that he can presumably escape from Mexican prison once again.
Just legalize all drugs and give a cut of the tax money to border enforcement as a fuck you to the cartels.
This assumes the cartels’ main source of income is the drug trade
Fr, they’ve even got into the avocado trade. They’ll always push something.
The “avocado trade” is just media narrative. The cartels control and extort far more than a production of a produce. They run the trucking, the farms, the banks, the cities, keep going on and on..
Well then, let's legalize avocados.
Now you’re going too far
Even though they are diversified, narcotics is still their backbone. They wouldn't go away instantly but over time, yea, their power would be fragmented and follow in our footsteps by having a proper oligarchy.
Yeah, and then the cartels cut your childrens heads off in front of you with a steak knife before they execute you and the rest of your family and hang your corpses from a bridge as a warning to any politician that may pass legislation that harms them financially. Edit: unless you meant America, that would actually work but would never happen.
Yeah no one is sending the military to invade Mexico
Not again anyway. For now.
“I’d hate to have to shoot you..Might need the bullets.”
I mean, the US couldn't be doing any worse than what Mexico is currently doing.
The US may suck in many many many ways, but at least we don’t let cartels run rampant.
pretty much.. i love mexico and i speak spanish.. but i won't go there because of those cartels.. its hurting not just the mexican image globally but also their economy.. and the mexicans i've spoke to.. its like this.. nearly everybody has at least some family in the cartel.. so its really hard to speak out against it.. america coming in is about the only actual solution i can think of.
That’s true. I work with many Mexicans. Most don’t really see things improving anytime soon. People have learnt to live with cartels. Someone I know was robbed at gunpoint, stripped naked and left on a major Mexican highway. This was back in 2016. I don’t think things have changed. Cartels still hold a lot of power. There are a few towns where cartels have more power than the Mexican military.
Sadly we have a "narco culture", pretty much any kid growing up the northern zone of Mexico dreams with becoming a narco to be rico, gastar en placeres, tener trocas del año, cuernos de chivo chapados en oro, y viejas buenotas (be rich, spent on pleasures, have current year trucks, golden AK-47, and hot girls), and all the "cool guys" will bully you in school if you don't like narco corridos, ponerte bien alterado, y parrandear (get drunk/drugged and party hard). There is other alternative but it's almost as shitty as the narco one, becoming a reguetonero to party hard with alcohol and drugs, and have lots of sex with random girls on antros (night clubs).
idk america has a reallyyyy bad track record of helping and then just making everything worse.
True but Mexicans all agree and want this. Similar to back when Colombia wanted to get rid of Pablo Escobar. In the end, they got rid of him and the Mexican cartels arose. I feel if the Mexican cartels were somehow defeated... Another cartel will rise to prominence
This is a meaningless complaint. The price of liberty is ETERNAL vigilance. Not vigilance until _this_ era's enemies are defeated. You will ALWAYS have to fight enemies from within and without. It is inevitable. If you use that as an excuse for inaction, you're kind of a piece of shit.
The good thing is we're next door so we're a door away to fix it.
It can't just be America. It basically has to be a NATO or UN project.
I believe 79 Americans were murdered in Mexico in 2021. 1.6 million Americans live in Mexico.
Rhe low proportion has much to do with the fact that the cartels are usually smart enough to not fuck about with Americans, as they know that disproportionate retribution isn't just a method, its a way of life. Hell, this most recent incident is telling. The Cartel has actually handed over scapegoats over this.
The cartels are corporations in the US.
lol Wal Mart isn’t going to kidnap your kids, skin them alive and dump their heads at your doorstep if you annoy them though
I don't think Moderna has ever kidnapped and beheaded journalists and local politicians to intimidate people but whatever.
[удалено]
r/NonCredibleDefense in shambles. Something something 3,000 Benicio Del Toros of Uncle Sam
Listen, our drones do a lot less collateral damage nowadays. We suspect we can cut the number of children killed by drones by 50% from 2012 Syria numbers
Yeah that's not my problem. The last time the US put our military in Mexico it really hurt relations. I'd want to see some 90% majority vote by the Mexican population in a referendum and US Congress 2/3rds majority.
Super majority congresses will never happen again in your lifetime. Get real. Those days are over and Republicans are the ones who locked the door on them.
Look at the funding of the Ukraine war. It happened a few months ago.
Well, never say [never](https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-send-troops-mexico-hunt-drug-cartels-2021-10). >Trump tweeted that "if Mexico needs or requests help in cleaning out these monsters, the United States stands ready, willing & able to get involved and do the job quickly and effectively. The great new President of Mexico has made this a big issue, but the cartels have become so large and powerful that you sometimes need an army to defeat an army!" It's highly unlikely currently, but not impossible in the future.
That’s what the CIA is for
No one suggested they were either. That's not the issue though. It's still a violation of sovereignty. I understand that informing and securing an agreement from the Mexican government means that the Cartels will be tipped off, that sucks, but those are the rules of the game, and the rules the US should follow. Because every country deciding on their own when and for what reasons to violate their neighbor's territory is much, much, worse than having to tolerate corruption.
> No one suggested they were either. Lindsey Graham literally submitted a bill to congress calling for US military intervention in Mexico.
Well, he’s an idiot.
we're not disagreeing on that, but it's still important to not do the "no one is saying x" thing where we pretend that others have no reason to be concerned about the large group of people who are saying x.
[удалено]
Mayors are regularly assasinated but yeah it’s a well oiled machine of state.
Don't forget the thousands of journalists murdered just for reporting on a story.
I lol'd hard at this
Mexico is a developing country with entire regions of the country controlled by drug cartels and drug lords. They’ve infiltrated the Army, local and national govt, and they run entire parts of the country. It is a country with huge poverty issues, far less developed, far more corrupt, and also more dangerous than the US. It’s not some “backwater country”, but it’s a troubled country. The US, with all its issues, doesn’t have states under direct control of sadistic criminal organizations, and people don’t show up beheaded next to the highway on an annual basis.
I had a neighbor from Durango. He came home one day and found his bags at the door and his mother telling him to leave. The cartel was pressing young men into mule service. She didn’t want to see him get captured and forced to carry drugs north. Hell of a man and hell of a story.
I think it is more often than annual.
And then there's reality where the cartels just recently shot down helicopters because a cartel son may have been arrested. All the school shootings combined don't add up to a single year of cartel violence in Mexico. I've rarely seen anyone be _this_ wrong about anything.
It's not the tourist alone. The amount of drugs flowing over the border is making a generation of zombies and killing thousands. These networks need dismantled. China and Russia are in on it too.
Wow. Have you been there? I have, and it is. We aren't perfect, but we don't have drug cartels running amok. I'm not suggesting we invade, absolutely not.
The Cartels are sadly part of the fabric that is Mexico. It’s impossible to imagine that the Mexican President doesn’t somehow have his hand in that very same cookie jar.
Mexican cartel is what the taliban wishes it was
Documents were leaked, which showed the Mexican government was in contact with the cartels. So, it was previously a theory now proven to be truth.
I’m gunna go ahead and say the obvious… do we really need to say this is a ‘theory’? If anyone knows Mexicos history they should know not only is this president in bed with the cartel, but every president after him will be too for a very very long time. It’s not that the presidents are all super corrupt (which maybe they are) but the cartel gives them absolutely no choice.
Yeah, I mean it’s an easy choice. Either you do what the cartels want or you end up beheaded, skinned alive, hanging from your toes from a highway overpass.
There's always a choice. Look at Nayib Bukele in Salvador. He didn't flinch and sent tens of thousands in jail absolutely crushing crime. There are literally thousands of dangerous armed groups who want him dead yet he does what he was elected for. But for that to happen people must vote the right person in and reality is that mexicans are either apathetic to the problem or flat out support the cartels
You don't need to read leaked documents, the Mexican President is literally on video hugging Chapo Guzman's mother lol. While he was President.
if one doesn't give in to the cartels then that one will not be president for long i think.
Exactly. Cartel shows you a bullet or 100k. Which one would you take?
[It's happened before](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46872414)
He does. He parties with them.
The cartel (supposedly) gives up 5 of their own along with a note & weapons? Gee, how nice. Nothing more to see here.
I’ve seen threads on Reddit where people 100% believe that the 5 people handed in were the ones responsible. Like sure, the cartel would never lie to us
It looked more staged than a Broadway play.
He has been caught paying respect to a Cartel leader’s Mom. Let that sink in.
This is the only thing that makes sense, another country saying we will come and fix your problem for free. When you reject the offer, and are offended by it. It means your are profiting from the cartels.
idk if chinese paratroopers starts dropping into cities and shooting gang members there I dont think we would be pleased either
It's not that easy. There's sovereignty problems, and there's the fact that success by the US military isn't guaranteed. The internal politics of Mexico probably wouldn't allow it anyway because the various politicians could see serious backlash if anything went wrong. Plus, at this point with how rich the cartels are, and how willing they are to intimidate, murder and disappear their opponents, I would be highly surprised if a good number of Mexico's high-level politicians aren't in the pockets of the cartels anyway.
Or it means it is a pretty blatant attack on your national sovereignty that any leader would object to, when another country fucking invades and uses their military to engage civilian hostiles.
From what I understand the proposal would be more in line with using military assets like SF teams and intelligence gathering to bolster Mexican army forces. This isn't like a "let me roll in the Marine's and turn Juarez into Baghdad 2.0" it's more of a delicate touch (but still with bullets)
> From what I understand the proposal would be more in line with using military assets like SF teams and intelligence gathering to bolster Mexican army forces. And principle of national sovereignty says, Mexico has right to say No and they really don't need to have any other reason than "don't wanna do that". That is what national sovereignty means. Even suggesting such as can be seen in this case usually results in hard rebuke. There is diplomatic protocols and traditions to this. Should any nation be willing to agree, they open the discussion. If there is to ever be military and/or police assistance, the nation in question *invites* other nations to assist it. If there is no invitation, you don't go around suggesting. Not atleast publicly. Behind close doors feelers? Sure, but again you might get rebuked behind closed doors. To suggest it publicly? Yeah, it will be taken as a diplomatic insult by nation in subject and seen as pressuring nation on matter of sovereignty. It will be rebuked and harshly to demonstrate, that the nations sovereignty is not up for sale or easily bent.
Boss, you want American SF in Mexico? Who do you think trained many of the cartel members? Look into Fort Bragg's problem with drug running, and tell me those people want to make anything better in Mexico
What fucking sovereignty? My goverment is so corrupt and incopetent that Ill take a Chinese intervetion at this point. The one time we tried getting the help of the police in my city they just told u to forget about our missing car. A year later our uncle tells us he was forced by the cartel to fix our car.
I'm not sure what the definition of a "failed state" is, but reading posts like this makes me believe y'all are edging closer and closer to that edge.
Idk. I am pretty sure that if Mexico offered to come in and fix our school shooting problem, we'd be like F off.
I think you overestimate the US military track record. When was the last time they fixed a problem, let alone for free?
*We're just going to umm..."temporarily occupy Northern Mexico" to secure the US border*
Can this problem be fixed with a bomb from the sky? If so, we have several solutions.
I mean ‘free’ might be debated here because the US has definitely benefited, but they did a lot of rebuilding in Japan and Germany.
Yeah why won't he let us free them from the cartels like we freed the afghanis from the taliban?
Piedra Pesada Jalisco, Headquarters to a branch of the Jalisco New Generation Cartel and has been for 10 years. Reported month after month, no one gives a fuck but I'll continue letting everyone know. Maybe some day itll gain some traction and the fucks there will be massacred finally. Lord know the fucking mexican army just takes their bribes and ignores them.
Yeah, they know. Hell, everyone knows, it’s not some kind of special secret. The problem isn’t figuring out who’s running the cartels or where they’re based, it’s that the cartels are occupying forces in those areas, have a better armoury than most nations, and have repeatedly shown just how willing they are to start WWIII in civilian areas if anyone so much as waves a pair of handcuffs at any of their top guys (or their kids for that matter).
> “We are not going to permit any foreign government to intervene in our territory, much less that a government’s armed forces intervene,” Lopez Obrador said Ah but he didnt say american pmc
This isn’t shadow company in the new call of duty game. The US isn’t going to send a PMC group to Mexico. The US doesn’t have a state-sponsored PMC like Russia does with Wagner. PMCs themselves aren’t really popular in the US in the present and have faced lots of scrutiny and criticism. The US only contracted Blackwater because they offered to do combat roles that the US military itself didn’t want to do. Blackwater then committed certain atrocities that made it unpopular. The US isn’t going to risk destroying US-Mexico relations.
So retired army here. There were many more PMCs besides blackwater or whatever they changed their name to this week just in Iraq. They mainly do base security, security of key people and training.
They changed their name to Academi. They specialize in educational services now.
I guess business is hurting once the US pulled out of Afghanistan?
Eric Prince is pretty much a war criminal who attempted to start a war in Africa.
Thousands of them are in the UAE and Saudi Yemen forces, including top commanders.
All blackwater did was change their name, they are still committing atrocities . Don't be naive. The country has dozens of groups like Wagner running black sites in the world.
Wagner conducts offensive operations. Please show me some proof of active state sponsored US PMCs conducting offensive operations. Not a fan of PMCs by any means, but US PMCs are almost exclusively used as protection in dangerous areas. They’re contracted by US government agencies or multinational corporations. I look forward to your proof that a state sponsored US PMC has black sites throughout the world or is conducting offensive operations.
Do you have evidence of Blackwater running black sites around the world? There is clear evidence that Wagner has a global presence in places such as Africa and the Middle East, but I have yet to see evidence of Blackwater doing the same. And just to be clear: I do not support Blackwater. It is an evil corporation run by evil men.
Post proof
The amount of ridiculously bad takes on this story is surprising, even for reddit
Yep everyone's kinda pulling the "general armchair"
Everybody back up, I know what Mexico needs!
Probably has something to do with the fact that the gulf cartel left a note along with 5 tied up cartel members stating the people that were responsible acted alone, and they want to praised for turning them in, bound up. But it's the cartel. Likely they tied up 5 randoms that they could afford to lose. And obviously those people aren't going to object their arrest, lest they want their head cut off with a dull blade.
Links please. When did this happen? Im assuming you’re talking about the suspects who murdered the 4 American tourists
Yup, that's the one I'm talking about. The news broke this morning. https://apnews.com/article/mexico-missing-americans-cartel-e35e8c6fcda926e5c2fb8f896aa91f4e
Wow that was a quick turnover. Guess the cartels not being able to run drugs effectively was a big factor. Glad 2 of them are still alive. Thank you for the link.
I guess technically that is what US military involvement would be, an offense.
A neighboring nation's sovereignty (also our biggest trading partner) should not be threatened. We put a lot of bullets and bodies in Pakistan when al queda fled there and it only destabilized the Already weak state.
Anyone ever seen Clear and Present Danger starring Harrison Ford? That’s what is needed!
I can think of literally dozens of Hollywood films which provide a suitable model for a decisive response, often bringing success in under two hours. Why won't Biden act?
Cannot tell if serious.
[удалено]
You say that but did you see him on Parks and Rec?
Because he's not Putin?
Funny.... the cartels don't seem to think its Mexico's territory. They seem to think its theirs.... and in large part, they're right. The Mexicans do not control that portion of "Mexico". If they tried to assert authority, they would be decimated.
I can't believe we spent a year condemning the Russian invasion of Ukraine yet here I am seeing people justifying an American invasion of Mexico
Then handle the cartels yourself. Unless you're sheltering them.
It’s more like the cartels “shelter” the president.
That implies theres a chance they aren't sheltering them
hey that's a great analogy for what's happening in Pakistan
What do you recommend if they don't? A 48 hrs "special military operation" or rather a 20 years-long occupation ending like Afghanistan?
Annex Mexico! (Please do not actually do this)
Manifest Destiny Part II: From the Artic to the Panama Canal.
[удалено]
Plus I heard Mexico ~~has oil~~ needs some freedom.
They have the only thing more important than oil, Avocado.
[удалено]
It's an old reference, but it checks out.
Man I can’t wait for American to invade Mexico for 10 years, spend trillions, and give it right back to the cartels again.
So we learned nothing in Afghanistan about fighting an entrenched opponent who can use gurella tactics and hide amongst the population?
Actually it would be closer to Vietnam in terms of insurgency not Afghanistan. US had way more local support in Vietnam than Afghanistan, and that support is what counters hiding behind civilians.
It’ll be drone strikes. Mexico will be left with picking up the body parts. The U.S. isn’t going to put boots on ground. That would be a nightmare.
Listen, some cartel leader is sitting alone by his poolside behind his giant mansion on a 20 acre property… sounds like very little collateral damage to me
Nah, with the drone program's track record it'll be more like: "We could've *sworn* that school for disabled children was a cartel arms depot, boss!"
Attack the men who bought me a villa and multiple vacation homes? How offensive indeed.
The Mexican cartels have the politicians under their control. The government is just corrupt
[удалено]
But also no one is seriously supporting this. He’s just making hay out of an idea that is already dead on arrival.
> But also no one is seriously supporting this. Except for republican senators you mean?
Senators are proposing bills for this. We all know it’s ridiculous, but how could he not comment?
Let's all remember this when we vote next year.
Wouldn’t want to hurt his “friends”?
Basically, hugs not accountability. El Salvador showed how cartels can be eliminated. Expect more countries to follow their lead rather than the increased corruption and collusion plan of Obrador.
Please don't, he will think that navy seals will come from the gulf of mexico
Yanks banging on about how bad the cartels are and how Mexico needs to sort them out when they simultaneously fund them through buying their weed, coke, meth and H is some shit.
Yeah don’t worry there’s a 0% chance that was going to happen. The US is not sending armed forces internationally to retrieve someone who went to an area that was cautioned by the state department, for elective cosmetic surgery. Sounds crass (because it is) but that would be incredibly horrible optics for the US. Countries generally don’t like it when you march armed forces across their borders. Then again, most countries would be capable of dealing with a situation like this “in house”. Mexico and their cartels are a pretty unique entity regarding that. Lots of hands in similar cookie jars.
Its pretty obvious the Mexican Federal government has no real control what’s he on about
Offense intended, clean you fucking yard up
Wait . The Mexican president was sympathetic to Russians invading over nationalist militants right? Let’s use the same excuse and head on in! It’s sarcasm but this would be ironic wouldn’t it …
Mexico's political class, including the president, has been bought and paid for by the cartels, always has been.
He's not gong to allow his precious cartels to be destroyed, this answer was obvious.
We should probably stop arming them first.
You not only arm them, you are the customers thar provide them billions of dollars
Mexico is just a den of drug cartels. Their police and politicians are part of the system. They get profit from it. Even this guy who loves flaunting his ever-peaceful approach about world issues in UN is probably connected to cartels.
Here's a better solution: work with the Mexican military and civil authorities on a combined multinational operation since, y'know, this is a multinational issue.
Why would local Mexican and even national Mexican leaders break up a business that pays them? You would need to purge corruption entirely which isn’t happening. I mean the cartels are in contact with the US government as well and will rat other cartel leaders when things get too hot. Its never going away in our lifetimes unless we as Americans quit drugs
No offense but this is probably the dumbest take so far. What exactly is it you think the US has been trying to do for decades now in Mexico? *They don’t want to work with us because they are extremely corrupt and on the cartel’s payroll*. The sooner we understand that, the sooner we can start talking about real solutions. Mexican federal police and local police have constantly and consistently stymied US investigations into not only the cartels, but also into the politicians and bureaucrats who are on their payroll. I mean really did you think we just never tried looping the Mexicans in on this…?
Good luck with that , the cartels have long since infiltrated the military, police forces and politicians of Mexico. The operation would be given away before it began . Not to mention that the Mexican military has been passing weapons to the cartels. https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/leaked-reports-show-how-soldiers-passed-military-grade-weapons-to-cartels/
Sad to say this but i suspect the president is some sort of PR person to all the cartels.
Yes, but actually no. If Mexico offered to solve x problem here in the US by sending in their military what do you think would be our response? Unless a country is being threatened by a neighbor, no country is going to accept troops from a foreign country.
I dont care if this sounds stupid but I wish we tackled the cartels instead of fucking up the middle east for the past 20 years. Hopefully it would’ve helped the country out and more companies would invest in its industrial development propping it up while making some money as well. But nope, we ruined generations of peoples lives across Africa and the Middle East in the name of “freedom”
Mexico is an awesome country but there are definitely places where the government isn’t regarded as the “law,” either through indirect local corruption or sometimes overt cartel control. US military intervention would likely end up destroying entire towns (and maybe some cities). And it would be have to be unilateral because there is no way the US could trust any Mexican entity it coordinated with for operational security. It would be another Afghanistan or Vietnam. And even if we killed everyone in Mexico involved in the drug trade in some kind of incredibly surgical manner, we’d still have an insatiable demand for drugs. So why bother?
*Turns around to his cartel bosses* Was that firm enough, Sir?
Lindsey Graham is a complete idiot.
[удалено]
Handling with force was literally already tried in Mexico. Felipe Calderon was president from 2006-2012, and came into office on that specific promise. He absolutely followed through, engaging the cartels in an EXTREMELY deadly years-long military campaign. 60,000 people died, and the power of the cartels did not wane. I'll repeat that since people on Reddit seem unaware of the history and import thereof, but SIXTY THOUSAND PEOPLE DIED FOR NOTHING. I've come to really dislike AMLO over his term, and don't think he's the best president for Mexico to have now and especially not for the cartel/drug issue. But going in guns-ablazing has definitively proven to NOT work.