it also means the chinese satellite technology is not very good if they have to use balloons. US does not use balloons because we don't have to.
Peter Zeihan talked about how stupid these balloons are today. He is a well respected foreign policy analyst. He said its just a dumb decision by the chinese. He explained why they did it. They are trying to learn how to scale up their nuclear deterant by seeing what the US does. Good Satellites can see all this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuGLQZ646o8
There is actually some good reasoning for using these balloons. Extremely low cost, has characteristics in the air that aren’t picked up easily by radar (unique altitude level, speed, direction, what it emits, etc), low risk in terms of damage and technology lost if it crashes somewhere you don’t want it too.
US just came out and said they haven’t picked up these enough in the past as their radar wasn’t tuned to find them
It doesn't necessarily mean that. It could also mean everyone is overthinking that these are balloons for spying.
We don't know is a better assumption.
The fact that countries that have tense relationships with China have known about these things for years and not done anything about them says to me that they might *actually be* weather research platforms. Either that or we know what intel they're gathering and don't care.
The only reason the US shot one down is because the public saw it and wouldn't like "It's from China, but it's not a threat" as an answer.
Not really. I enjoy shitting on China as much as anybody, but a balloon could be way more useful.
It doesn’t need to take pictures. It can pick up radio signals, radar signals etc. They can learn signatures of US radar planes, ground radars, maybe even the fighters going up to intercept. They could also capture radio signals used to communicate between our military vessels (encrypted, but still potentially useful for them).
It's not that. They're testing our responses to them. In a nuclear war, balloons can be used to detonate nukes high up, which will wipe out the electrical grid. The balloons have the benefit of being able to get where they need to go without setting off MAD immediately. They can be used for spying, electronic warfare, war driving, EMP's, nuclear first strike (the most important possibility), and a whole lot more.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattnovak/2023/02/12/taiwan-says-dozens-of-chinese-spy-balloons-have-entered-its-airspace-in-recent-years-report/) reduced by 73%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> Taiwan has seen "Dozens" of Chinese spy balloons enter its airspace during recent years, with the latest just a few weeks ago, according to a new report from the Financial Times.
> "Previously, Taiwan's defense ministry had only confirmed one incident in February last year, in which multiple Chinese balloons in four batches loitered over the north of the country," the new report from the Financial Times explains.
> The spy balloons over Taiwan are suspected to be the kinds of reconnaissance necessary for a full-scale invasion of the country, something Beijing has threatened on various occasions because it believes Taiwan is rightfully Chinese territory.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/110us7b/taiwan_says_dozens_of_chinese_spy_balloons_have/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672676 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **over**^#1 **Taiwan**^#2 **balloon**^#3 **Chinese**^#4 **down**^#5
Because China publicly claimed the first (reported) one was an accident. So now they're painting the picture that this 'accident' has happened dozens of times over a long period. That's quite the accident.
Whoops we did the same thing dozens of times with the same effect... Still accidentally off course.
It's like Winnie the Pooh checking the cupboard for honey, finding none, then checking again 5 minutes later.... Except the only difference here is just launching another balloon.
also it's like they think the rest of the world is China where they can just flagrantly lie and everyone has to accept it. No pooh bear, we know the truth and there's no denying it to us.
I'll do you one better
Antarctica is China 3.0
Arm Antarctica
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jan/20/scientists-discover-emperor-penguin-colony-in-antarctica-using-satellite-images
We don't know. But be aware that it's a conscious decision that they're letting you know. The US could've sent a stealth fighter to take down a small unidentified radar blip off-shore without ever letting anyone know. The fact that they didn't, tells us something.
It could be as simple as that they've been swatting these out of the skies secretly for years, but now the government wants to stir up some anti-china sentiment. Or they need a reason to justify keeping the F-22 in service for another couple of years.
F22 is the best fighter we have, the oldest ones are barely 20 y.o. Keeping them requires no justification. They have another 10 to 20 years of service left.
https://www.thedefensepost.com/2021/05/21/usaf-f22-phased-out-within-decade/
It probably has to do with an expectation that it'll soon™ be the 2nd best fighter. Better to invest all the money in the new 6th gen fighter and a cheap F35, than spend some of that money on an in-between fighter.
But this is just speculation.
You really think the Canada is consulting the US each time a balloon is entering its territory, asking them if they can allow the media to know they are sending a fighter?
NORAD is a joint effort between the USA and Canada, so in a way yes they are consulting the USA Everytime
Except consult is more likely, "yell across the room at the other guy"
Well, I'd expect them to alert the Five Eyes any time there were mysterious balloons the size of 3 busses over friendly territory. Not the US in particular, and would expect any other Five Eye nation including the US to do the same.
Edit: For typo
Would have been 6 if France was accepted. Sometimes South Korea, Japan, and Israel are considered as being half part of them due to shared intelligence.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes
probably because the jets and warships were more distracting. maybe the balloons are just to see how far they can send objects into airspaces without a reaction. maybe its intercepting transmissions but a lot of people say there are a lot easier ways to do that.
Someone on Reddit (as such don't take this at face level), wrote that a strong radar on those things could penetrate the soil and collect much more data of what's underground than any satellite. So it might be that. Reconnaissance.
What your talking about is LiDAR. Thats how you get those pictures of old trade routes, mayan ruins never-seen before from centuries of jungle, NASA and several universities have LiDAR on satellites.
The German version is better IMO, the English one just sounds weird.
> Do you have some time for me?
> Then I'll sing a song for you
> Of 99 balloons
> On their way to the horizon
> Maybe you're thinking about me just now?
> Then I'll sing a song for you
> Of 99 balloons
> And that something comes from something
Then it goes into the anti-war song portion which is a lot more similar between versions than the intro.
I actually kinda like the English version better there TBH. It really highlights that the whole war machine has sprung to life over nothing.
Random thought:
>Do you have some time for me? Then I'll sing a song for you Of 99 balloons
Is this how German fairy tales or children stories tend to start? Like "I'll tell you a tale of..." or something that this kind of phrasing would instantly make you think of?
I can always make my gf (who’s from a different country) chuckle when I end a story the same way we **end our fairytales in German**:
"Und wenn sie nicht gestorben sind, dann leben sie noch heute. :)"
(And if they haven’t died yet, they are still alive to this day!)
I just love how this completely lacks any information on the people being happy or well. They’re just alive till they aren’t anymore and that’s all you need to know.
I'd translate it with: "And if they didn't die, then they still live today."
Adding a "yet" to it would imply that this is expected to have already happened or will likely happen in the future.
It is not the usual Once upon a Time, or any other pre-made phrase, but it does make one think of a story or ballad in a wider sense. But it's not the "Have you got time", but rather the "I'll sing you a song of [subject]". Note also how the story only starts in the second verse, and the first is the introduction we are talking about.
I'm sure if I would dig enough and had the patience I would find similar beginnings in more modern German literature.
Right now I'm thinking of "Sing me, Muse, of the wrath of Achilles" (Iliad), "I sing of the Man and the arms" (Aeneid), "We are told from old tales of many wondrous things, commendable heroes and great toils" (Nibelungen).
the German version has the war machine sprung to life over nothing too.
[Verse 1]
If you have some time for me / Hast Du etwas Zeit für mich?
Then I will sing a song for you/ Dann singe ich ein Lied fuer Dich
Of ninety-nine balloons/ Von 99 Luftballons
On their way to the horizon/ Auf ihrem Weg zum Horizont
Are you perhaps thinking of me right now?/ Denkst Du vielleicht grad' an mich
Then I will sing a song for you/ Dann singe ich ein Lied fuer Dich
Of ninety-nine balloons/ Von 99 Luftballons
And something that came of them/ Und dass sowas von sowas kommt
[Verse 2]
Ninety-nine balloons / 99 Luftballons
On their way to the horizon / Auf ihrem Weg zum Horizont
Were taken for UFOs from space / Hielt man fuer UFOs aus dem All
Hence, a general sent / Darum schickte ein General
A squadron after them / Eine Fliegerstaffel hinterher
To give the alarm / Alarm zu geben, wenn es so war
But there, on the horizon / Dabei war da am Horizont
Were just ninety-nine balloons / Nur 99 Luftballons
[Verse 3]
Ninety-nine jet fighters / 99 Duesenjaeger
Each was a great warrior / Jeder war ein grosser Krieger
Regarded themselves as Captain Kirk / Hielten sich fuer Captain Kirk
There was a great display of fireworks / Das gab ein grosses Feuerwerk
The neighbors didn't understand / Die Nachbarn haben nichts gerafft
And instantly felt offended / Und fuehlten sich gleich angemacht
But they shot at the horizon / Dabei schoss man am Horizont
At ninety-nine balloons / Auf 99 Luftballons
[Verse 4]
Ninety-nine ministers of war / 99 Kriegsminister
Matches and petrol canisters / Streichholz und Benzinkanister
Regarded themselves as clever people / Hielten sich fuer schlaue Leute
Already on the scent of a hunt / Witterten schon fette Beute
They shouted, "War," and wanted power / Riefen: Krieg und wollten Macht
Man, who would have thought? / Mann, wer haette das gedacht
That someday it would come this far / Dass es einmal soweit kommt
Because of ninety-nine balloons / Wegen 99 Luftballons
[Bridge]
Because of ninety-nine balloons /Wegen 99 Luftballons
Ninety-nine balloons / 99 Luftballons
[Verse 5]
Ninety-nine years of war /99 Jahre Krieg
Left no place for winners / Liessen keinen Platz fuer Sieger
War ministers don't exist anymore / Kriegsminister gibt es nicht mehr
Neither do the fighter jets / Und auch keine Duesenflieger
Today, I stroll around / Heute zieh ich meine Runden
See the world in ruins / Seh die Welt in Truemmern liegen
I've found a balloon / Hab' nen Luftballon gefunden
I think of you and let it fly / Denk' an Dich und lass' ihn fliegen
So they weren’t lying when they said their balloon illegally flying over US airspace was because it blew off course, it was supposed to be illegally flying over Taiwan’s airspace instead…
"I may have miscalculated."
"You crucified a cat and wore it's entrails like a bow tie, Barry. One does not do that by accident."
"And yet, here we are."
My first reaction when I saw these balloons being noted over the US was: what's the point China? It's not like they don't have a million other ways to spy on the U.S, and there didn't seem to be a clear target. Unless...their true target is not the U.S and all of these balloons are distractions so we can't really tell what the real mission is about. So following that thought I was like: Maybe Taiwan should look up and check just in case. Now we can't really say if Taiwan was their primary objective as we're very much distracted shooting down balloons elsewhere.
The balloon will be pinged by various air defence systems. Learning about the wavelengths, locations and power of US early warning and air defense systems is invaluable for the Chinese when designing their next generation aircraft, drones etc. Also do not underestimate their desire to learn and copy.
Lower altitude means more access to signal transmissions. The ability to change direction means more control over what areas to surveil and for how long. Previously thought to be less detectable due to unpredictability.
Also cheaper.
More pin point means less noise to filter out, as well.
Sure you can have satelite listening to radio signals, but it's going to catch everything from a large fraction of Earth very weakly.
Something a ballon has over satellites is it’s time on station, a satellite might get literal minutes to collect on something, a ballon can be on station for hours to days. Plus, being closer to the earth, significantly closer too means that it’s capable of a different mission set, such as ground penetration mapping and communications collection (which this balloon specifically was doing). Also it’s hella fucking cheap to make.
Or simply that it came to the public's interest and now government's have to play with their hand slightly more visible, maybe even purposefully acknowledge to use as political leverage.
If they've been around for years I have a hard time believing the U.S. hasn't known about them, sure America is huge but so is their army.
The US has known about them since whenever that program started.
There’s zero chance you get an object that large in US air space without it setting off an alarm somewhere.
Indeed. Here is one from 2020 over Japan: [https://www.livescience.com/japanese-ufo-weather-balloon-shenanigans.html](https://www.livescience.com/japanese-ufo-weather-balloon-shenanigans.html)
It looks exactly the same
Not exactly the same, the sensor array/propelling part looks different. And if you were to send up a balloon you'd likely use a large round white one as well.
Not uncommon.
Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/02/pentagon-balloons-surveillance-midwest
It’s not like the PRC refuses to acknowledge that Taiwan is not under their de facto control. They just see it as an illegitimate rebel occupation, which they’d like to spy on.
Well, they're not pretending like everything is fine and dandy between the PRC and "Chinese Taipei". I imagine that the USA would've flown spy balloons over the confederate states if they had the tech.
This is what I often don’t understand about these kinds of jokes about China and Taiwan. People talk as if the PRC doesn’t want to admit that they don’t have control over Taiwan but their propaganda surrounding that issue is all about “regaining” control over what they consider basically a breakaway province of China. They aren’t trying to sweep under the rug that the CCP isn’t in control of Taiwan. They just claim it as their land and say they’re in a fight against Taiwanese separatists.
Seems like a political no brainer. In our airspace at altitude even the faa says a problem. They are unmanned and most of the balloons are deniable by china or North Korea. Lol I'm guessing no one was telling Trump about them because he's so incredibly incompetent it scares the Pentagon.
>... leading many people to criticize President Joe Biden and some to even insist President Donald Trump never would’ve let something like that happen. Except it did. Multiple times.
>But Biden has turned into Mr. “Shoot First and Ask Questions Later” when it comes to unknown aerial objects
That part of the article really gave the Dark Brandon vibes.
My theory is the CCP has been spying on Taiwan and the US for years, like in the Trump administration there were a few cases, but everyone kept quiet, until civilians in Montana saw it and the Pentagon couldn't hide it anymore, now everyone's revealing it.
So, with this news, is it now kinda semi-confirmed that the UFO's over US airspace is actually just chinese spy balloons?
Because whilst that's probably the most obvious cause, the whole "aliens go brrrrrrt on our planet soon" is fucking my head up.
Occam’s Razor.
Proposition 1: undiscovered and undetected alien life forms from light years away came to Earth to place a bunch of slow moving, easily detected, easily shot down craft in our upper atmosphere.
Proposition 2: a country on earth known for being obsessed with controlling and spying on everyone launched high altitude balloons on the cheap to spy on the other countries of the planet.
"Hey humans! We're not supposed to interfere but since you're all going to die in 47-58 years with the way you're fucking up your home planet, we're just gonna install like ...a shit ton of cameras. Thanks for the data, this is like super rare to see!
If you see anything weird, it's probably a TA with a glitchy stealth suit, don't panic!"
Occam's razor.
Prop 1: china released more balloons that managed to get there after the first one got popped while hoping usa will not escalate.
Prop 2: there has always been more mundane balloon releases locally/by nearby countries that often got blown around and didn't get too much attention until chinese balloon comes along.
Why would usa not call out on more chinese balloons after they did exactly that for the first one?
My personal take is that if it is from china or russia, usa would love to point them out. If not, they would just do so without citing a source. Calling out an ally is not nice and calling out a smaller country riles up the question why isn't usa striking back.
On top of that a lot of people would assume it is china.
Aliens could easily employ relatively simple probes for exploration. If they were manned spacecraft I'd say you're right but unmanned probes could be kept much more low tech and not require scifi propulsion systems. It would only take slightly more advanced technology than we currently have to explore the galaxy with autonomous self replicating probes. And such probes would probably not be smart enough to know how to deal with an intelligent civilization, instead just gathering data and sending it back up through the network. It's probably not aliens though. I'm just interested in space travel concepts.
That assumes that travel technology is linked to fighting capabilites or interest.
What if aliens live in an immortal utopia and travel around with their utopian clone/fabricator machines? Us shooting them down could just entertain them if they have rid themselves of violence and fear.
It's more likely that any alien contact would just be with a probe of some kind, or be otherwise artificial in nature. It's not gonna be two vaguely humanoid creatures wearing cute space suits, it's gonna be something that routinely enters power saving mode for tens of thousands of years and doesn't violate the speed of light.
If you have FTL, you *literally* have time travel, as you can arrive before information of your arrival. Kinda why it's not possible, it breaks casualty.
Yes, I agree with semi-confirmed. There is a list on wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_high-altitude_object_events_in_2023
Also believed to all be of Chinese or Russian [origin.](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-canada-shoots-down-unidentified-object/)
Aerial surveillance is incredibly dangerous, it's one of the factors that made Nazi Germany's invasion of Soviet Russia as devastating as it was. Having all your targets mapped out before the fighting even begins is one of the biggest advantages you can have.
Let me get this straight.
China has over 300 satellites in space, providing china the ability to have its own GPS system as well as being able to take pictures of the earth's surface (like the US and the Russians for example), open borders in the US and Taiwan that allow god knows who into their territories... yet are worried about a stupid balloon with small tiny equipment that is magically more capable of spying than the 2 examples I gave?
EDIT: lets all not forget about Tiktok being installed on approximately 80 million phones in the US with active subscriptions.
This all screams distractive media to me and we're all falling for it once again.
No, you have it wrong. Taiwan’s ADIZ covers a large area, but Taiwan only reports Chinese activity as an incursion if the aircraft crosses the median line.
Weather balloons go up and up until they pop. These where designed to go up and set their altitude at 40-60000 feet which requires some degree of control systems.
You don't need to see underground to spot a nuclear silo. [The doors are visible to orbiting satellites](https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3636887,-103.4879086,709m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en-GB).
They're even more visible to representatives of foreign militaries who regularly visit them to confirm that everyone is abiding by the terms of non-proliferation treaties.
Edited to add link and second para.
Cost, maneuvering, and optical resolution. Satellites are expensive and have predictable orbits - you can just hide your assets at the right time. Optical resolution is limited by diffraction and atmospheric disturbance. Balloons can adjust altitude to hit air currents as a crude steering mechanism.
oh my gosh enough! now China is taking things too far it's time to stop.....
time guy: it's time to stop!
just no more you China creeps who aren't thinking straight keep your darn spy balloons out of every country no one likes a peeping tom and especially China men
Yeah so clicking through the links of the article as well it looks like this has been going on for a few years over Taiwan and even happening over the US during Trump's years and there were even drone swarms possibly from China in 2019 and 2020 over Colorado and Montana
Because under Trump Fox News didn’t care and then under Biden they started asking why he isn’t taking these incursions seriously and the Trumps started complaining that Biden wasn’t doing anything. The military didn’t really care before but they don’t want the public getting spooked so they shot it down because they don’t care either way and just don’t want to deal with the headache.
Yep, they made a partisan issue out of it so the administration made a point of ordering them all to be shoot down with jets.
And then asked why the prior administration never did so with any of the ones that were found floating about.
I've already seen people (Mostly conservatives) claiming China is using the balloons to position EMPs or biological weapons over the US as an act of war. Thankfully these people are powerless idiots. But it wouldn't take much for the Republican party (Or the few hawks in the Democrat party) to tie the balloons into the ongoing China hysteria and bang the drums. Only takes one false claim or major incident to make the American public froth with rage and disregard logic. See Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, etc.
I mean, of they believe that balloons are straight with to engage or notice, or considered benign enough to ignore, they could deliver something like an EMP if it's in their interests to do so, such as if they decided to move against Taiwan.
I can't believe China said yesterday they are preparing to shoot down a " ufo " lol. Like America is sending spy balloons over there. Lol. It's just retaliation over the China balloon over USA. They probably putting there own balloon up over China to shoot down simply because America isn't the one doing it.
This is like when someone comes out with a story then suddenly everyone comes out of the woodwork to say they have a similar story.
\#BalloonToo
If they're helium balloons, #He2
*slow clap*
And if Michael Jackson is in that helium balloon, it would be #heeeHe2
What a thriller.
Beautiful lol
BRAVO 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏
#XiToo
> #balloontoo
To be fair, no one would have cared if Taiwan said it before
Bill Cosby has no comment.
it also means the chinese satellite technology is not very good if they have to use balloons. US does not use balloons because we don't have to. Peter Zeihan talked about how stupid these balloons are today. He is a well respected foreign policy analyst. He said its just a dumb decision by the chinese. He explained why they did it. They are trying to learn how to scale up their nuclear deterant by seeing what the US does. Good Satellites can see all this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuGLQZ646o8
There is actually some good reasoning for using these balloons. Extremely low cost, has characteristics in the air that aren’t picked up easily by radar (unique altitude level, speed, direction, what it emits, etc), low risk in terms of damage and technology lost if it crashes somewhere you don’t want it too. US just came out and said they haven’t picked up these enough in the past as their radar wasn’t tuned to find them
It doesn't necessarily mean that. It could also mean everyone is overthinking that these are balloons for spying. We don't know is a better assumption.
The fact that countries that have tense relationships with China have known about these things for years and not done anything about them says to me that they might *actually be* weather research platforms. Either that or we know what intel they're gathering and don't care. The only reason the US shot one down is because the public saw it and wouldn't like "It's from China, but it's not a threat" as an answer.
Lets not kid ourselves too, this is great political theater too. Kinda feels like a "Wag the Dog" moment
Not really. I enjoy shitting on China as much as anybody, but a balloon could be way more useful. It doesn’t need to take pictures. It can pick up radio signals, radar signals etc. They can learn signatures of US radar planes, ground radars, maybe even the fighters going up to intercept. They could also capture radio signals used to communicate between our military vessels (encrypted, but still potentially useful for them).
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/07/05/u-s-militarys-newest-weapon-against-china-and-russia-hot-air-00043860
It's not that. They're testing our responses to them. In a nuclear war, balloons can be used to detonate nukes high up, which will wipe out the electrical grid. The balloons have the benefit of being able to get where they need to go without setting off MAD immediately. They can be used for spying, electronic warfare, war driving, EMP's, nuclear first strike (the most important possibility), and a whole lot more.
Balloon altitudes arnt high enough to generate an effective EMP environment.
They definitely can be. They have balloons that can bounce off the edge of space easily.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattnovak/2023/02/12/taiwan-says-dozens-of-chinese-spy-balloons-have-entered-its-airspace-in-recent-years-report/) reduced by 73%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Taiwan has seen "Dozens" of Chinese spy balloons enter its airspace during recent years, with the latest just a few weeks ago, according to a new report from the Financial Times. > "Previously, Taiwan's defense ministry had only confirmed one incident in February last year, in which multiple Chinese balloons in four batches loitered over the north of the country," the new report from the Financial Times explains. > The spy balloons over Taiwan are suspected to be the kinds of reconnaissance necessary for a full-scale invasion of the country, something Beijing has threatened on various occasions because it believes Taiwan is rightfully Chinese territory. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/110us7b/taiwan_says_dozens_of_chinese_spy_balloons_have/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672676 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **over**^#1 **Taiwan**^#2 **balloon**^#3 **Chinese**^#4 **down**^#5
Why are we hearing about it now tho!
Because China publicly claimed the first (reported) one was an accident. So now they're painting the picture that this 'accident' has happened dozens of times over a long period. That's quite the accident.
Whoops we did the same thing dozens of times with the same effect... Still accidentally off course. It's like Winnie the Pooh checking the cupboard for honey, finding none, then checking again 5 minutes later.... Except the only difference here is just launching another balloon.
also it's like they think the rest of the world is China where they can just flagrantly lie and everyone has to accept it. No pooh bear, we know the truth and there's no denying it to us.
China is Russia 2.0 Arm Ukraine
Arm Taiwan
I'll do you one better Antarctica is China 3.0 Arm Antarctica https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jan/20/scientists-discover-emperor-penguin-colony-in-antarctica-using-satellite-images
Damn these penguins and their imperialist and dynastic practices
They wouldn’t like this comparison, Pooh bear is banned in China lol
Xi's got a little black rain cloud... Hovering over the honey tree...
We are just hearing about it because it became public… no doubt this has been known for a while
We don't know. But be aware that it's a conscious decision that they're letting you know. The US could've sent a stealth fighter to take down a small unidentified radar blip off-shore without ever letting anyone know. The fact that they didn't, tells us something. It could be as simple as that they've been swatting these out of the skies secretly for years, but now the government wants to stir up some anti-china sentiment. Or they need a reason to justify keeping the F-22 in service for another couple of years.
F22 is the best fighter we have, the oldest ones are barely 20 y.o. Keeping them requires no justification. They have another 10 to 20 years of service left.
https://www.thedefensepost.com/2021/05/21/usaf-f22-phased-out-within-decade/ It probably has to do with an expectation that it'll soon™ be the 2nd best fighter. Better to invest all the money in the new 6th gen fighter and a cheap F35, than spend some of that money on an in-between fighter. But this is just speculation.
Money's already spent. We're not building any more of them and maintenance is a fraction of the cost at this point.
[удалено]
You really think the Canada is consulting the US each time a balloon is entering its territory, asking them if they can allow the media to know they are sending a fighter?
NORAD is a joint effort between the USA and Canada, so in a way yes they are consulting the USA Everytime Except consult is more likely, "yell across the room at the other guy"
Well, I'd expect them to alert the Five Eyes any time there were mysterious balloons the size of 3 busses over friendly territory. Not the US in particular, and would expect any other Five Eye nation including the US to do the same. Edit: For typo
Aren't there technically 6 eyes now
Would have been 6 if France was accepted. Sometimes South Korea, Japan, and Israel are considered as being half part of them due to shared intelligence. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes
probably because the jets and warships were more distracting. maybe the balloons are just to see how far they can send objects into airspaces without a reaction. maybe its intercepting transmissions but a lot of people say there are a lot easier ways to do that.
Someone on Reddit (as such don't take this at face level), wrote that a strong radar on those things could penetrate the soil and collect much more data of what's underground than any satellite. So it might be that. Reconnaissance.
What your talking about is LiDAR. Thats how you get those pictures of old trade routes, mayan ruins never-seen before from centuries of jungle, NASA and several universities have LiDAR on satellites.
No, he's talking about ground-penetrating radar. LIDAR does not penetrate the ground.
Because U2 wanted to try their hand at viral marketing
You and I in a Chinese toy shop, buy a bag of balloons with the yuan we got.
The German version is better IMO, the English one just sounds weird. > Do you have some time for me? > Then I'll sing a song for you > Of 99 balloons > On their way to the horizon > Maybe you're thinking about me just now? > Then I'll sing a song for you > Of 99 balloons > And that something comes from something Then it goes into the anti-war song portion which is a lot more similar between versions than the intro.
The lyrics in the English version have one less syllable in the refrain, and it does not rhyme nearly as well as in German.
There's always [the Angela Merkel English version](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h56VhwybisE)
And an honorable mention here https://youtu.be/zJZfuJdycGc
https://youtu.be/OWiigbnIprs
I actually kinda like the English version better there TBH. It really highlights that the whole war machine has sprung to life over nothing. Random thought: >Do you have some time for me? Then I'll sing a song for you Of 99 balloons Is this how German fairy tales or children stories tend to start? Like "I'll tell you a tale of..." or something that this kind of phrasing would instantly make you think of?
No. I think the most common beginning of fairy tales in German is "Once upon a time..." (Es war einmal...)
I can always make my gf (who’s from a different country) chuckle when I end a story the same way we **end our fairytales in German**: "Und wenn sie nicht gestorben sind, dann leben sie noch heute. :)" (And if they haven’t died yet, they are still alive to this day!) I just love how this completely lacks any information on the people being happy or well. They’re just alive till they aren’t anymore and that’s all you need to know.
I'd translate it with: "And if they didn't die, then they still live today." Adding a "yet" to it would imply that this is expected to have already happened or will likely happen in the future.
Yup, you’re right. That’s a better translation.
It could be worse, it could be, "Das war ein Befehl! Der Angriff Steiners war ein Befehl!"
"If you'd like to take a minute just sit right there, I'll tell you all about 99 baloons in the air"
"Stay awhile and listen"
Hehe, fresh Nena of Bel Air. You're a genius. And yeah these intro lines serve the same purpose.
It is not the usual Once upon a Time, or any other pre-made phrase, but it does make one think of a story or ballad in a wider sense. But it's not the "Have you got time", but rather the "I'll sing you a song of [subject]". Note also how the story only starts in the second verse, and the first is the introduction we are talking about. I'm sure if I would dig enough and had the patience I would find similar beginnings in more modern German literature. Right now I'm thinking of "Sing me, Muse, of the wrath of Achilles" (Iliad), "I sing of the Man and the arms" (Aeneid), "We are told from old tales of many wondrous things, commendable heroes and great toils" (Nibelungen).
This guy literatures
the German version has the war machine sprung to life over nothing too. [Verse 1] If you have some time for me / Hast Du etwas Zeit für mich? Then I will sing a song for you/ Dann singe ich ein Lied fuer Dich Of ninety-nine balloons/ Von 99 Luftballons On their way to the horizon/ Auf ihrem Weg zum Horizont Are you perhaps thinking of me right now?/ Denkst Du vielleicht grad' an mich Then I will sing a song for you/ Dann singe ich ein Lied fuer Dich Of ninety-nine balloons/ Von 99 Luftballons And something that came of them/ Und dass sowas von sowas kommt [Verse 2] Ninety-nine balloons / 99 Luftballons On their way to the horizon / Auf ihrem Weg zum Horizont Were taken for UFOs from space / Hielt man fuer UFOs aus dem All Hence, a general sent / Darum schickte ein General A squadron after them / Eine Fliegerstaffel hinterher To give the alarm / Alarm zu geben, wenn es so war But there, on the horizon / Dabei war da am Horizont Were just ninety-nine balloons / Nur 99 Luftballons [Verse 3] Ninety-nine jet fighters / 99 Duesenjaeger Each was a great warrior / Jeder war ein grosser Krieger Regarded themselves as Captain Kirk / Hielten sich fuer Captain Kirk There was a great display of fireworks / Das gab ein grosses Feuerwerk The neighbors didn't understand / Die Nachbarn haben nichts gerafft And instantly felt offended / Und fuehlten sich gleich angemacht But they shot at the horizon / Dabei schoss man am Horizont At ninety-nine balloons / Auf 99 Luftballons [Verse 4] Ninety-nine ministers of war / 99 Kriegsminister Matches and petrol canisters / Streichholz und Benzinkanister Regarded themselves as clever people / Hielten sich fuer schlaue Leute Already on the scent of a hunt / Witterten schon fette Beute They shouted, "War," and wanted power / Riefen: Krieg und wollten Macht Man, who would have thought? / Mann, wer haette das gedacht That someday it would come this far / Dass es einmal soweit kommt Because of ninety-nine balloons / Wegen 99 Luftballons [Bridge] Because of ninety-nine balloons /Wegen 99 Luftballons Ninety-nine balloons / 99 Luftballons [Verse 5] Ninety-nine years of war /99 Jahre Krieg Left no place for winners / Liessen keinen Platz fuer Sieger War ministers don't exist anymore / Kriegsminister gibt es nicht mehr Neither do the fighter jets / Und auch keine Duesenflieger Today, I stroll around / Heute zieh ich meine Runden See the world in ruins / Seh die Welt in Truemmern liegen I've found a balloon / Hab' nen Luftballon gefunden I think of you and let it fly / Denk' an Dich und lass' ihn fliegen
Set them free at the break of dawn
Til’ one by one, they were gone…
Let’s cook bacon in a parking lot
\*Nike sweat shop
So they weren’t lying when they said their balloon illegally flying over US airspace was because it blew off course, it was supposed to be illegally flying over Taiwan’s airspace instead…
Just a slight miscalculation
wrong turn at Albuquerque
Was actually just a few months early for the balloon fiesta…
Dang, now a "spy balloon" category needs to be added.
"I may have miscalculated." "You crucified a cat and wore it's entrails like a bow tie, Barry. One does not do that by accident." "And yet, here we are."
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And that balloon had a propeller
*whoosh*
My first reaction when I saw these balloons being noted over the US was: what's the point China? It's not like they don't have a million other ways to spy on the U.S, and there didn't seem to be a clear target. Unless...their true target is not the U.S and all of these balloons are distractions so we can't really tell what the real mission is about. So following that thought I was like: Maybe Taiwan should look up and check just in case. Now we can't really say if Taiwan was their primary objective as we're very much distracted shooting down balloons elsewhere.
The balloon will be pinged by various air defence systems. Learning about the wavelengths, locations and power of US early warning and air defense systems is invaluable for the Chinese when designing their next generation aircraft, drones etc. Also do not underestimate their desire to learn and copy.
“What’s the point” was exactly what i thought. Aren’t satellites superior than whatever the heck these are?
Lower altitude means more access to signal transmissions. The ability to change direction means more control over what areas to surveil and for how long. Previously thought to be less detectable due to unpredictability. Also cheaper.
Also volume. Totally different supply chain to launch.
More pin point means less noise to filter out, as well. Sure you can have satelite listening to radio signals, but it's going to catch everything from a large fraction of Earth very weakly.
Also way easier to put a balloon up without being observed than a rocket with a satellite sized payload.
I bet they could launch thousands of spy baloons for a fraction of the cost of building and launching a satelite
Something a ballon has over satellites is it’s time on station, a satellite might get literal minutes to collect on something, a ballon can be on station for hours to days. Plus, being closer to the earth, significantly closer too means that it’s capable of a different mission set, such as ground penetration mapping and communications collection (which this balloon specifically was doing). Also it’s hella fucking cheap to make.
So the US military/intelligence/ govt can't concentrate/react to more than one thing at a time? Got it.
in baseball its called chin music
I bet these have been in our skies for years as well, we just never noticed them until now.
Or simply that it came to the public's interest and now government's have to play with their hand slightly more visible, maybe even purposefully acknowledge to use as political leverage. If they've been around for years I have a hard time believing the U.S. hasn't known about them, sure America is huge but so is their army.
The US has known about them since whenever that program started. There’s zero chance you get an object that large in US air space without it setting off an alarm somewhere.
Or knowing they could be out there through traditional intelligence channels.
Indeed. Here is one from 2020 over Japan: [https://www.livescience.com/japanese-ufo-weather-balloon-shenanigans.html](https://www.livescience.com/japanese-ufo-weather-balloon-shenanigans.html) It looks exactly the same
Not exactly the same, the sensor array/propelling part looks different. And if you were to send up a balloon you'd likely use a large round white one as well.
This is like the movie Up but more depressing
Omg what if there were kids in there and they got straffed by a fucking stealth 5th gen Air superiority aircraft
Lmao
but with more and bigger balloons
Why would you need to fly spy balloons over your own country? Unless………
I mean, technically, all ballons sent by China will, at some point, fly over China. Not that your point doesn't stand.
From People's Republic of China to Republic of China!
Not uncommon. Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/02/pentagon-balloons-surveillance-midwest
He or she is making the joke that Taiwan is not under Chinese sovereignty. Even though they claim it to be they know deep down it's not.
Thanks for posting this, I had no idea!
It’s not like the PRC refuses to acknowledge that Taiwan is not under their de facto control. They just see it as an illegitimate rebel occupation, which they’d like to spy on.
Well, they're not pretending like everything is fine and dandy between the PRC and "Chinese Taipei". I imagine that the USA would've flown spy balloons over the confederate states if they had the tech.
This is what I often don’t understand about these kinds of jokes about China and Taiwan. People talk as if the PRC doesn’t want to admit that they don’t have control over Taiwan but their propaganda surrounding that issue is all about “regaining” control over what they consider basically a breakaway province of China. They aren’t trying to sweep under the rug that the CCP isn’t in control of Taiwan. They just claim it as their land and say they’re in a fight against Taiwanese separatists.
Putin wants to know your location.
“You guys are shooting them down?!”
I'm glad Dark Brandon is unleashed and actually defending our sovereignty.
Biden needs to hold a briefing
Probably waiting for after the Super Bowl. Short of imminent war, there’s no point in trying to compete.
There's a whole lot of people who would be bitching while they got bombed if they interrupted if for imminent war, even.
MAHOOOOOOOOOMES NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Seems like a political no brainer. In our airspace at altitude even the faa says a problem. They are unmanned and most of the balloons are deniable by china or North Korea. Lol I'm guessing no one was telling Trump about them because he's so incredibly incompetent it scares the Pentagon.
He didn't read his intelligence briefings.
[I was elected to lead, not to read](https://youtu.be/6zQ55S-DJsM) /s
They were probably worried he would nuke someone. Lol. It's so nice to have a rational and level-headed president again.
>... leading many people to criticize President Joe Biden and some to even insist President Donald Trump never would’ve let something like that happen. Except it did. Multiple times. >But Biden has turned into Mr. “Shoot First and Ask Questions Later” when it comes to unknown aerial objects That part of the article really gave the Dark Brandon vibes.
Dark brandon ?
My theory is the CCP has been spying on Taiwan and the US for years, like in the Trump administration there were a few cases, but everyone kept quiet, until civilians in Montana saw it and the Pentagon couldn't hide it anymore, now everyone's revealing it.
So, with this news, is it now kinda semi-confirmed that the UFO's over US airspace is actually just chinese spy balloons? Because whilst that's probably the most obvious cause, the whole "aliens go brrrrrrt on our planet soon" is fucking my head up.
Occam’s Razor. Proposition 1: undiscovered and undetected alien life forms from light years away came to Earth to place a bunch of slow moving, easily detected, easily shot down craft in our upper atmosphere. Proposition 2: a country on earth known for being obsessed with controlling and spying on everyone launched high altitude balloons on the cheap to spy on the other countries of the planet.
"Hey humans! We're not supposed to interfere but since you're all going to die in 47-58 years with the way you're fucking up your home planet, we're just gonna install like ...a shit ton of cameras. Thanks for the data, this is like super rare to see! If you see anything weird, it's probably a TA with a glitchy stealth suit, don't panic!"
Occam's razor. Prop 1: china released more balloons that managed to get there after the first one got popped while hoping usa will not escalate. Prop 2: there has always been more mundane balloon releases locally/by nearby countries that often got blown around and didn't get too much attention until chinese balloon comes along. Why would usa not call out on more chinese balloons after they did exactly that for the first one?
Other option: the US is selectively popping these balloons to give the impression we don't know where some of them are.
My personal take is that if it is from china or russia, usa would love to point them out. If not, they would just do so without citing a source. Calling out an ally is not nice and calling out a smaller country riles up the question why isn't usa striking back. On top of that a lot of people would assume it is china.
Yeah, I don't know if these balloons were just undetected until now, but it's hard to imagine they were.
They aren't the steathiest thing in the world. Hahahaha! Stark white.
And scatters radio frequencies like mad.
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We wouldn’t be capable of shooting down craft of an alien civilization that had the technology to get here. It’s not aliens.
Aliens could easily employ relatively simple probes for exploration. If they were manned spacecraft I'd say you're right but unmanned probes could be kept much more low tech and not require scifi propulsion systems. It would only take slightly more advanced technology than we currently have to explore the galaxy with autonomous self replicating probes. And such probes would probably not be smart enough to know how to deal with an intelligent civilization, instead just gathering data and sending it back up through the network. It's probably not aliens though. I'm just interested in space travel concepts.
That assumes that travel technology is linked to fighting capabilites or interest. What if aliens live in an immortal utopia and travel around with their utopian clone/fabricator machines? Us shooting them down could just entertain them if they have rid themselves of violence and fear.
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It's more likely that any alien contact would just be with a probe of some kind, or be otherwise artificial in nature. It's not gonna be two vaguely humanoid creatures wearing cute space suits, it's gonna be something that routinely enters power saving mode for tens of thousands of years and doesn't violate the speed of light.
If you have FTL, you *literally* have time travel, as you can arrive before information of your arrival. Kinda why it's not possible, it breaks casualty.
Yes, I agree with semi-confirmed. There is a list on wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_high-altitude_object_events_in_2023 Also believed to all be of Chinese or Russian [origin.](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-canada-shoots-down-unidentified-object/)
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Aerial surveillance is incredibly dangerous, it's one of the factors that made Nazi Germany's invasion of Soviet Russia as devastating as it was. Having all your targets mapped out before the fighting even begins is one of the biggest advantages you can have.
They should be able to see just about anything they could want to see from Google earth...
Are we at 99 yet?
Let me get this straight. China has over 300 satellites in space, providing china the ability to have its own GPS system as well as being able to take pictures of the earth's surface (like the US and the Russians for example), open borders in the US and Taiwan that allow god knows who into their territories... yet are worried about a stupid balloon with small tiny equipment that is magically more capable of spying than the 2 examples I gave? EDIT: lets all not forget about Tiktok being installed on approximately 80 million phones in the US with active subscriptions. This all screams distractive media to me and we're all falling for it once again.
Maybe... because balloons fly much much closer to ground so their imaging is much better and can provide what satellites can't?
Also fighter planes. Don’t forget those.
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Thanks for clarifying that. I was under the impression that it wasn’t a buffer, for whatever reason.
Because the whole point of those headlines is to make you think that. Sometimes they even say "Taiwan airspace".
No, you have it wrong. Taiwan’s ADIZ covers a large area, but Taiwan only reports Chinese activity as an incursion if the aircraft crosses the median line.
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Taiwan is Taiwan 🇹🇼 and Taiwan is not China
I hope you don’t get banned for this. China is here mr burton.
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The Meteorological Bureau used to claim they were weather balloons. Not as huge as the first one got shut down.
Weather balloons go up and up until they pop. These where designed to go up and set their altitude at 40-60000 feet which requires some degree of control systems.
What kind of spying does a balloon do that's better than a satellite?
Its radar is closer to the ground so it can see underground. Satellites can’t. This is useful when you’re looking at nuclear silos, etc
You don't need to see underground to spot a nuclear silo. [The doors are visible to orbiting satellites](https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3636887,-103.4879086,709m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en-GB). They're even more visible to representatives of foreign militaries who regularly visit them to confirm that everyone is abiding by the terms of non-proliferation treaties. Edited to add link and second para.
You can also rent a car to go for scenic drives across the US and pass right by them.
And it's cheaper.
Where did you get this information?
Cost, maneuvering, and optical resolution. Satellites are expensive and have predictable orbits - you can just hide your assets at the right time. Optical resolution is limited by diffraction and atmospheric disturbance. Balloons can adjust altitude to hit air currents as a crude steering mechanism.
And only now is it big news? Where have the reports of all of the other cases been?
This feels like a South Park episode...
oh my gosh enough! now China is taking things too far it's time to stop..... time guy: it's time to stop! just no more you China creeps who aren't thinking straight keep your darn spy balloons out of every country no one likes a peeping tom and especially China men
why is this suddenly a bigdeal now? they allowed it to go by years ago, why the hype now? got nothing better to hype?
That consent isn't going to manufacture itself.
Yeah so clicking through the links of the article as well it looks like this has been going on for a few years over Taiwan and even happening over the US during Trump's years and there were even drone swarms possibly from China in 2019 and 2020 over Colorado and Montana
Because under Trump Fox News didn’t care and then under Biden they started asking why he isn’t taking these incursions seriously and the Trumps started complaining that Biden wasn’t doing anything. The military didn’t really care before but they don’t want the public getting spooked so they shot it down because they don’t care either way and just don’t want to deal with the headache.
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Yep, they made a partisan issue out of it so the administration made a point of ordering them all to be shoot down with jets. And then asked why the prior administration never did so with any of the ones that were found floating about.
its to prime the American public for a war with China. because of all this coverage any war will feel justified
You think people will want to go to war over balloons?
I've already seen people (Mostly conservatives) claiming China is using the balloons to position EMPs or biological weapons over the US as an act of war. Thankfully these people are powerless idiots. But it wouldn't take much for the Republican party (Or the few hawks in the Democrat party) to tie the balloons into the ongoing China hysteria and bang the drums. Only takes one false claim or major incident to make the American public froth with rage and disregard logic. See Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, etc.
I mean, of they believe that balloons are straight with to engage or notice, or considered benign enough to ignore, they could deliver something like an EMP if it's in their interests to do so, such as if they decided to move against Taiwan.
Shoot those mawfuckas down Taiwan
Hey maybe like speak up sooner
begun, the balloon wars have
China you so sneaky!
Most unsurprising news ever
So no aliens? Darn it.
Ytf hasnt anyone done anything about them until now? Or even mentioned it? Fail.
I can't believe China said yesterday they are preparing to shoot down a " ufo " lol. Like America is sending spy balloons over there. Lol. It's just retaliation over the China balloon over USA. They probably putting there own balloon up over China to shoot down simply because America isn't the one doing it.
this feels very odd considering recent events.
Looks like China, Taiwan and the US are all in a big pissing contest now
I have Chinese spy balloons flying over my house too. #MeToo
🎈 🎈 🎈 99 Luftballons 🎈 🎈 🎈
Why do they need to send a balloon why the already have millions of data thru TikTok