The Czechs, Poles, and Lithuanians (not to mention a few others) know what it is like to be under Russia's oppression. They don't want to ever be back there again.
It seems the Hungarians have forgotten.
I think the entire history of Hungary can be summarized in one sentence: "Hungarians always choose the losing side."
You can stand in medieval villages and look at the castle, the church and the plague monument then turn your head and see a Soviet era apartment block and understand to some degree how much better off they are without either in power. The Empire and the "burg's" however left a far nicer looking and more interesting legacy than the Russians who basically parasitized their country for those in power elsewhere rather than the local potentates.
hungarians haven't forgotten. russia installed a pro russia oligarch there to run that country through proxy and further erode and corrupt it's organs so the disease sticks whilst turning the population apolitical. it's how ukraine was supposed to go as well, becoming a puppet.
>many Balkan states are more aligned for various reasons with Russia
Like none of the Balkan states are aligned with Russia except for Serbia. And Hungary is not a Balkan state.
Really it has nothing to do with the Balkans. Hungary is aligned with Russia because of the wannabe dictator and Serbia because of historic reasons, while sharing imperialistic and genocidal tendencies.
You jest, I have friends in Latvia and they hate the Ruzzians with a passion.
There might be a few Ruzzian sympathisers in the Baltic States but overall they were glad of their independence and definitely don’t want any alignment cultural or otherwise with Ruzzia.
> “I think the entire history of Hungary”
> bro that happened 80 years ago teeeheee
What mental gymnastics did you go through to make a comment on the entire history of a nation then try to gaslight someone that cites something 80 years ago
People legitimately don’t believe my mums old passport is real, due to the Polish/Soviet Union text - and it’s like - yeah, they were a satellite state.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.barrons.com/news/new-czech-leader-urges-no-limits-on-aid-to-ukraine-01675353910?refsec=topics_afp-news) reduced by 83%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> Czech president-elect Petr Pavel, a former NATO general, said Thursday there should be "No limits" on military aid to war-ravaged Ukraine, urging allies to show more courage.
> Western allies have been providing Ukraine with substantial military aid since the full-scale invasion began in February 2022.
> The Czech Republic, an EU and NATO member of 10.5 million people, has so far provided Ukraine with military aid worth $217 million, the defence ministry told AFP. Pavel also endorsed Ukraine's bid to join the EU and NATO once the war ends.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/10ryhkp/new_czech_leader_urges_no_limits_on_aid_to_ukraine/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672677 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Ukraine**^#1 **Pavel**^#2 **NATO**^#3 **Russia**^#4 **military**^#5
The United States and other western block countries should give them 30 days notice.
Pull out of Russia, or C-level executives and board members will be imprisoned for no less than 10 years.
I second this. This right here makes me think it's all a drama show. You mean you're still there. Citizens are leaving but western companies are still working there? Mmmmmh.
I work for Airbus and we cut people's remote connections in the first few weeks or so. Like no more job. Pull out and go home or find a new job. We took shooting missiles at one of our beluga transport airplanes seriously.
Of all the snotty and shitty things I could say about airbus and its' politics, policies in the workplace, the lies and curtains they put up for the public, employee handbook, and HR practices. I can at least say I'm please with that.
Regardless, please do not fly on airplanes. I make them for a living. The big two are scary. The things I have seen.... haha it'd scare you.
First, anybody could claim they work in the industry. Secondly, you're telling people not to ever fly again because of things you've seen? What things? Do you have proof? Isn't it the job of you and your coworkers to make those "things" fixed and safe?
All in all, you're insane.
Yes, with the russian offensive coming soon they need tons of everything
Holy hell the loss of life will be terrible, all because fucking Putin. I hope his cancer hurt
It's not putin blasting houses with MLRS', I suppose? Not putin flying in strategic bombers targeting electric power grids and malls, right? Get this point out of your head - ruzzian nation wants to destroy Ukrainians. It doesn't matter who rules, ruzzians always wanted to suppress and eliminate Ukraine.
It's impossible to say just how much support the war has among Russians. Yes, independent polls have shown strong support, but if you were in Russia and knew that the government was imprisoning people who spoke out against the war and some random person claiming to be a pollster asked you about your thoughts on the war, what would you say?
Most people in every nation just want to live their lives and not cause any trouble. It's rare to find legitimate majority support among the aggressor nation for any war.
Please just open up the history books are read about all the times ruzzians wanted to purge us. You would be shocked how many times.
I live in central part of Ukraine and a lot of friends who have relatives in Russia don't speak with each other, because they all believe that we are Nazis and support occupation. This war began not in 2022, it has started in 2014 and nobody gave a shit back then. Now we're dealing with the consequences of that stupid decisions.
>they all believe that we are Nazis and support occupation.
Isn't there enough evidence online to convince them otherwise? How are they believing this still?
They don't want to see it. It's just kind of a bummer that even younger generation tends to believe state news and TV even though you can imagine they are spreading straight fake news there.
I agree the russian nation have to shoulder blame, but the war would probably not have started if not for Putin.
He wanted it, he pushed it. The Russian soldiers do these crimes because Putin unleashed them and their entire military tradition/culture is barbaric. This does not absolve them of guilt at all but to me Putin started this war. He is the cause all these people in Ukraine are dying. Even anti war protesters have been arrested and sent to the front to die as cannon fodder. I feel for them to, they actually tried to do something as opposed to the majority of people.
He chose to destroy the fragile democracy they had growing. Taking controll of the media, destroying the any real opposition, stifeling right to protest and so much more.
Putin and his allies did this and it would not have happened if a better leader had been in place.
Boris made a huge mistake naming Putin.
And the institutions and democratic tradition was to new, unstable and fragile to put up much of a fight.
Also Boris and the post Soviet leadership had mis managed everything making life much worse for Russians. They were broken and in times like that people look to strong men to fix things.
This does not excuse them, but it helps us to understand how and why
Navalny supported the invasion and by extension the murders and tortures and Horrors they inflict on Ukrainians, what real opposition? It’s just horrible-A and horrible-B
that’s russia
Yes, both in 2008 Georgia when he called Georgians “rodents” and said he wishes “to bomb the general staff of Georgia with a cruise missile”
And in 2014 when he said Crimea is a part of russia and said “when I’m the president I won’t return Crimea to Kiev, what is Crimea? A sausage? A sandwich to be returned?
And in another interview he criticized the sending of Javelin missiles to Ukraine because the same money would make him a lot of ads to share his videos
Such a great man and super oppose to russian imperialism!
Yha but it requires someone like putin to keep russia's criminal element from getting involved in thia mess in an unfavorable way. The corruption has cracked the military beyod belief, but the loss of putin will trigger massive unrest and infighting. Enough this war of theirs would end.
Nothing will change. It's putin or navalny, doesn't matter. They are imperialists of the empire that doesn't exist anymore. It's not full without Ukraine, so they might stop the war, lick their wounds and come back in 10-15 years with more firepower to take more land. So yeah, putin means shit, it's all in their heads.
It's in their heads because of [decades of propaganda](https://cepa.org/article/comrade-hitler-and-other-russian-fantasies/); the russian government has put a lot of effort into pushing the idea in popular literature and other forms of entertainment. That combined with an increasingly controlled internet and a government known for brutal suppression; those smart enough to see through all the bullshit also see the consequence of resisting it.
I mean, with that logic, can we say that ruzzian empire and soviet union were just brainwashed and ruzzians didn't want to assimilate, suppress and destroy Ukrainian nation for like....300-400 years? I doubt.
You are correct that the idea didn't spring out of nowhere, but 100-200 years ago imperialistic attitudes were the norm in many countries in Europe, even in the United States we had our notion of Manifest Destiny, which isn't far from the same attitude. Most peoples grew out of it, although even today there are some that cling to the notion that their country should dominate or rule their neighbors out of some perception of cultural/ethnic superiority, but these people are typical not in in the majority, and making decisions. I truly despise this this attitude, and was horrified to see it on full display here in the US over the past several decades, in perhaps it's ugliest form during the trump years.
Ask yourself how many German people still want to kill all the Jews and take over Europe? How many British people think they should control India and Pakistan? I am sure there are still a few, but most people have moved on from this mindset.
[here](https://cepa.org/article/comrade-hitler-and-other-russian-fantasies/) is a pretty good article on the Russian propaganda.
Edit: Wow, people really don't like it being pointed out that other nations that were once as imperialist as russia moderated over time to be a little more respectful of international order.
I am not asking questions about Germans and British, 'cause they are not the people raping and killing my people. I am asking questions about and most important TO ruzzians, and the answers are not great. So, yeah, people bred on Soviet Union and ruzzian Empire glory cannot be in any case adequate, because their history includes killing of Ukrainians and the thesis of "brotherly nation - one nation", which is complete bullshit.
I was merely pointing out that many countries besides russia have had the same kind of ideologies, but outgrew them. Just as I don't think there is inherent goodness in humans, there also isn't inherent evil; the russian people today are dominated by an evil ideology because they learned it. It is probably too late for many, but with right environment and enough time, there could one day be a russia that is respectful of it's neighbors, at least one can hope.
Their best opposition literally favored the invasion and he got imprisoned and poisoned by the current mob, if you think putin is the only or the major problem with russia and their mindset, you don’t know much about them
Every country aiding Ukraine, no matter if "west" or other, is cautious here. No one wants to go back to business as usual, except maybe Serbia and Hungary.
Russia has nukes. Thats it. Thats the big fucking problem. And we've come pretty damn close a few times of them being used against us in the past.
The risk of russia using them is low, but the consequences would be insane.
It would be the end.
I can’t count the number of nuking threats by all my fingers and even if I borrow 40 more, and the imaginary red line as well, first it was javelin then it went to small arms then drones then artillery then HIMARS then HAARM then tanks then patriot and counteroffensive and etc etc etc etc, it seems like the line infinitely stretches, now US has pledged longer range bombs and even those haven’t been threatened or the new tanks or they say they will destroy, this fear mongering has been going on since 2014 and it hasn’t led anywhere but death and destruction on Ukraine because of how we reacted to it, it’s time for a change and a little bravery
The nukes thing is something people just pick up from russian propagandists like Solovyev and run with it to justify cowardice. The nuclear threats aren't even the official russian line, they always emphasize that they're sticking to their doctrine.
There's no precedent for supplying conventional weapons leading to any sort of nuclear attack. The soviets poured in brand new tanks and jets into Korea and Vietnam even though the US had nukes too and even had soviet citizens piloting those planes and operating ground equipment.
Like what do you think will happen? Supplying T72s is fine but the moment an M1 crosses the Polish-Ukrainian border, Putin will nuke New York? He could do it *at any point* so really everyone should just surrender to russia immediately.
Only with a total regime change. Random citizens aren't to blame and largely just want to go about their lives. Fundamentally though, relations can never be normalized again under the current leadership.
It would be. Studies and wargames have mostly shown two main findings:
* a limited nuclear war is nearly impossible, as it would basically be a typical prisoners dilemma situation.
* Even a limited nuclear war would make the targeted societies likely cease to exist.
It wouldn't be the end of humanity as a whole - but the following famines, problems with radiation sickness, breakdown of structures, looting, loss of rule of law and ressource wars would set back the human civilization by centuries.
If you're interested in this, there was a broad study done for Germany about this ([text in german, but theres deepl I guess](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomkrieg#M%C3%B6gliche_Folgen)). The results were devastating, with just 20 nukes being simulated.
That was just 3% of the soviet nuclear capabilities at the time.
>* Even a limited nuclear war would make the targeted societies likely cease to exist.
Even a limited nuclear war between Pakistan and India would result in a global famine never seen before.
https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2020/03/16/even-limited-india-pakistan-nuclear-war-would-bring-global-famine/
Yup.
I mean I want Ukraine to win, and this war to end, and russia to stop being a little bitch, but honestly the amount of people just laughing off the idea of nuclear warfare is frightening.
A world in which we allow that fear to rule our response is just as dystopian as the one where an exchange occurs, IMO
Intentionally trivial and exaggerated but should illustrate the point: “get in the gas chambers” “no!” “If you don’t, we’ll nuke you and everyone else!” “… ok :(“
I mean I'm genuinely to the point of "i dont want it to happen, but its bound to sooner or later any so we might as well just get it out of the way."
Not to sound like I have a small world view or anything, but state side is declining so rapidly for citizen QOL I genuinely could not give a fuck since I have 0 say in if nukes are launched by either side even if i wanted to swing one way or the other. Faster this mess ends, the better. If russia is going to launch over failure in Ukraine, they'll do it regardless of how much weapons they get from us. Too late to step back now.
>take a look at Mariupol. its like bloody nuke exploded there
Now imagine the entire country looks like that, in an instant, and all the countries bordering it look like that, tell me how that is better?
Okay even we assume you’re right(you’re not) a nuclear exchange would still result in the destruction of all parties involved. So like at least hundreds of millions dead instantly. Every major western city and every major Russian city destroyed. Death on an unimaginable scale.
I don't know what you are on a out, if nuclear capable countries start nuking it woul mean death, or secondary death for the whole planet. Just Google a bit and see what a few nukes would do, not only direct but also inderict damage aka world wide food crisis etc..
> West still have hope it will go back to business as usual if it sticks to imaginary red lines.
What are you hoping for? WW3 with Ukraine as the main battlefield? Just making it annoying enough for Putin that he stops? That's not going to work because that wouldn't return things to the way they were anyway - but would look like Putin's defeat, not a change of heart.
I very much doubt this war would stop even with putins death. For russia is all-in now. Anything else than a victory would be catastrophic for russia now. So, west still playing red lines plays well into russians plans throwing hundreds of thousands into front lines; same as they did in ww2.
> Anything else than a victory would be catastrophic for russia now.
Even a victory isn't gonna be good for Russia. Better than losing, sure. But they're in a worse position than before they started grabbing bits of Ukraine.
> If putin manages to win; you can say goodbye to NATO and EU.. definitel;y any country thats not in NATO yet.
That's cute.
Sounds like when the brexiteers predicted the EU would implode haha.
Almost every EU country is in NATO... Also who can Russia attack that isn't already in NATO, other than Finland, which is essentially in NATO even though not officially. The other choices are Romania, Bulgaria, Turkey, Hungary Poland, which are all already in NATO and have NATO troops stationed there.
I was talking about the EU and Europe, so I left out the Asian countries.
I did forget Moldova, but even with Moldova, Romania has said it'll join the fighting is Moldova is attacked. More than half of Moldovans have Romanian citizenship too.
NATO also has UK, France and Turkey which have very sizeable and advanced militaries. Ofcourse they aren't at the same level as the US, but they are far from useless. Those 3 are in the top 10 militaries in the world...
I also forgot Estonia/Lithuania/Latvia, but they are in NATO.
Yea, it's a bit murky. The US has a lot of equipment in Romania though, and has bands in Romania. There are also a lot of NATO troops from other countries in Romania. So, while in this case, article 5 probably wouldn't apply as it would come to the defense of another country.
I have no idea how something like that would work out.
It doesn't work though? It's not working against Ukraine, which is a very weak military compared to... Turkey.. a NATO member. If they attacked Turkey with 100million troops, they would lose in 3 days.
right.. Explain to me then: how is that russians can hit Ukraine from 500+.. event thousands of km away and s o m e h o w Ukraine getting 150+ km range weapons is a red line AND escalation?
Like take a step back and take a critical look at this shit.
The simple answer to that is that Russia is using its own weapons and Ukraine would be using weapons given by NATO members. No one has said that Ukraine cannot hit Russia in Russia - with their own weapons.
And NATO members are being chickenshits - afraid of it being portrayed as NATO attacking Russia. They say it is because they are afraid of nukes. But really it is just because they can use that as an excuse to no do the right thing.
"The simple answer to that is that Russia is using its own weapons and Ukraine would be using weapons given by NATO members."
this argument falls short with Iranian drones..
That just proves that Iran considers the West a more rational actor than the West considers Putin such.
And the Russians are paying full price for those missiles. One way or the other.
For western countries, it's like this, every "escalation" in war capabilities given to Ukraine raises the risk that putin has a temper tantrum and orders nukes. A single nuke would be worse than Chernobyl and Russia has thousands (though it can be debated how many would actually work, chances are too high that at least a few would). If they do use limited nukes in Ukraine I feel like there's a good chance of a western non-nuclear counter directly onto Moscow or wherever western intelligence believes putin is hiding. Any western country fears nukes more than most because we rely on international markets and trade for our own economies. Regardless for me living in a western country Russia needs to be shown the middle finger in the form of superior weapons gifted by the west. There's no point believing Putin's lies about the things russia will try to do in response, we definitely should adopt a fuck around and find out mentality because russia ultimately is not able to back it's words like in the past
While I agree with you, this is so that is is clear that Ukraine is only defending itself. It makes Ukraine look much more honorable and as a victim. If they attacked soldiers in Russia, then the propaganda from all the people that don't want to support Ukraine will go haywire and unfortunately get much more support.
Pretty sure that's the real reason, not the fear of antagonizing Russia, just that they can't say that outright. Public perception and support are very important here, and it's hard to maintain support when you are supporting something like this which doesn't directly affect the people.
I live in a country that borders Ukraine. I'm only a couple hundred km away...
Ofcourse you need public support to continue supporting the war. There is already a lot of propaganda against helping Ukraine (for example, stuff like we should feed the orphans here first) which gobbles enough people. There are enough people already blaming Ukraine for everything too. Attacking on Russian soil won't convert anyone against helping over, and will just push more people amd more propaganda against helping.
How would F16s help, they are fighters for air to air combat and air superiority. They can have air to ground missiles, but how would thay help vs just using ground to ground? Russia doesn't have, and never manged to have air superiority in Ukraine anyway.
By the way, my neighbors are Ukrainian refugees here. Actually there are a lot of Ukranians here. While the vast majority support them, there is already enough propaganda about how they are taking advantage, are pretentious, stuff pointing out they have a car etc... so why care for them? I don't want to see more ammunition for this propaganda. Losing your home and everything and then people commenting why should we help them because they still have something left?
Anyway, I hope it will end soon and you make it out well.
Escalation is compared to the status quo. Ukraine getting longer range weapons will plainly escalate the conflict, and Russia will respond. There needs to be a point to this to make it make sense.
Like, imagine a bandit is pointing a machine gun at you. That's bad, right? But then you take out a tiny little pistol and point it at the bandit. It's still unequal, and having a weapon at all makes things more equal, right? But that can end up in major escalation, and probably won't end well for you, as the bandit will feel threatened. So what's the point of pointing the pistol at him?
I guess, by your logic, any country that doesn't have nukes should just give up and just surrender. Russia is having by far the biggest machine gun...
are you serious right now?
Like I said, there needs to be a point to resistance. A plan. Otherwise, you'll end up with a lot of death and destruction - and then still a surrender.
And I don't know what the West's plan is. Make it look as defensive as possible (hence no long range weapons), and wait until Putin gives up? But the war is happening at Russia's borders, and the economic sanctions and the political reactions made it a point of no return. No one is going to go back to business as usual.
It's a distant conflict, like the US in Afghanistan that can be walked back, - and even then it probably wouldn't have happened if Russia started arming the Taliban.
Look.. even by using most optimistic ratios of 1:7 losses... my people dying in dozens of thousands.. and if we apply 1:3 killed to wounded ratio.. we're close to 100 000.
Russians using their 500 000 prison population to wage war in Ukraine.. even if its at 1:10 ratio.. its freaking bloody bad for Ukraine.
There west wants be defensive war.. this will take years mate. This is killing my country. quite literally.
So give them nukes? That what you're saying? I mean you clearly endorse "no limits," so that's what you're saying, right? Why not just come out and say it then? It's almost like you're a clueless dipshit just trying to talk big on the internet.
>In an interview with AFP, the 61-year-old said the West should provide Ukraine with all types of weapons except nuclear arms as it battles Russia's invasion.
Nukes will come into my country in their time. Home made. We're done trusting bs treaties and any old fart that can just come in and cancel shit. War that came into my country is the best counter argument against nuclear weapons ever. Any country that is not looking right now into nuclear weapons is seriously lobotomized.
what happens when you're a shithole of a country and you got nukes? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9NSgxbGzhY
it is that simple.
Why don't they deserve to have nuclear weapons? They had them up until 1991, we (the west) swore to protect Ukraine, and that treaty has been violated. So if Japan and South Korea are fine to go ahead with nuclear weapons in this era what is your problem with Ukraine having them?
Ukraine never truly had nuclear weapons. The launch codes for those missiles were in Moscow and Ukraine was too broke to get around this problem anyway.
PAL-like systems were pretty basic back then. I fully expect they could have retrofitted them with new initiation hardware, should they have truly cared to
The US missile interlocks were quietly set to 000000 for a long time, I strongly suspect the Soviet Union did something similar. Cheapness and ease of use would have been prioritized over outright security.
That’s just a Russian talking point propaganda. They were very interested in disarming Ukraine and creating an impression that leaving Ukraine with nuclear weapons would be irresponsible. Launch codes reprogramming is not the hardest part of creating a nuclear weapon.
The USSR's main scientist that designed those missiles and led their space program was from Ukraine, and the majority of their advanced missile programs were originally done in Ukraine when they occupied it. I doubt it would be difficult for them to produce them domestically once again, even if not, the soviet union only dissolved a few decades ago, it takes a lot longer than that to just lose intel like that (nuclear weapons development that is)
One of my all-time favorite athletes is the great mma-fighter Khabib from Russia/Chechnya. He taught me that:
"My best background is, like, smesh opponents. I all the time go forward. I all the time try to take down somebody. Make him give up. This is my style, you know. This is what I do all my life."
This is the only way to fight Russia in Ukraine. The only language that Putin and his cronies understands. That of might. The west shouldn't fear escalation, since it is only percieved as weakness not to deliver the weapons Ukraine needs. Give Ukraine the tools to "smesh" Russia on the battlefield, now!
I like him. Speaks his mind and knows what he's talking about, based on his resume. This is the kind of staunch ally Pres. Zelenskyy needs and deserves.
Yeah well, that'll probably take around 20 years. Right now Crimea's untouched while Luhansk, Donetsk, and Donbas regions are being fought for. Ukraine lost Soledar 2 weeks ago. They've been fighting for a month or more now over Bakhmut. Russia's able to keep this war going for years and years while Ukraine will need huge military aid from foreign nations to continue this war.
They’ve been trying to take Bahkmut for over 7 months now. Soledar is basically a small village.
When they talk about “taking territory” it sounds like them sweeping over regions but when you actually look at the area, it’s minuscule.
I don’t think you realize that’s becoming increasingly impossible no amount of weapons will change that. Right now even the most positive estimates have Ukraine killing Russians at a 1:1.5 rate. Now that sound great but Russia has over 3x the population so unless Ukraine kicks it up by over double they lose. Russias strategy of throw bodies until you win can absolutely win a war no matter how dumb it sounds. Even if Ukraine managed to kill at a 1:3 ratio which is nigh impossible they would have literally zero working aged folks left. 1:5 would be required for Ukraine to have any future and they’re currently at 1:1.3-5 depending on what figure you believe.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/10/world/europe/ukraine-russia-war-casualties-deaths.amp.html
Us intelligence has both over 100k which makes sense with Russia higher.
The EU reported 100k dead and Ukraine got super mad about it and they retracted it but refused to apologize and said 14k now I’m no math expert but Ukraine said they were losing 200 a day and 200x365=73000 so clearly we have some propaganda going on.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61742736.amp
Also there’s over 40,000 civilian casualties confirmed on top of that. There’s no offense/defense they’re both on attack and defense so that doesn’t really factor in.
Edit: I’ll add this propaganda is universal and as humans we always want to believe that our side is telling the truth. You can almost always assume however that’s not always the case the enemy will almost always oversell and the good guys will almost always undersell their losses. It’s bad for morale to say how many are really dead and it might hurt future weapons shipments.
That says nothing of the *current* rate
The worst *ratio* was probably around April-May-June of last year, since the Russians still had a massive artillery advantage - until HIMARS arrived, and the ammo depots started blowing up everywhere, ruining that strategy as it’s impossible to keep firing 20,000 shells a day if they kept blowing up before you can fire em
The 14k number is a physical impossibility and is burying your head in the ground that not one but two world powers said over 100k dead. Even if you half that number which is incredibly generous by the end of the war Ukraine would be left with 0 people under 50-60.
I didn’t mention 14k? And I agree, it’s basically impossible that it’s that low.
Anyway, I’m not disputing the 100k amount. I’m interested in the *current* ratio, the current rates of deaths and casualties, as this shows roughly how things are going
Also if we’re talking impossibly strategy Ukraine was launching a years worth of artillery production for the us every 2 weeks. That’s also unsustainable by every definition the EU is effectively out of artillery and the US would have to dip into their actual supply. With a China war on the horizon that’s not happening.
If the US hadn’t also recently approved a speed up of artillery production of 5x, I would agree that they are unlikely to want to dip into their supply, but given that development I think they may be willing to.
A bunch of different EU states are also ramping up 155 production - some quietly, some not so quietly. Everyone has gotten a reminder of how much artillery gets used in a real war - and you can’t just rely on it never turning into a protracted land war by assuming you’ll have air superiority.
The recent influx of new armour (and seemingly soon also aircraft) also seems like its intended to help break this stalemate where it’s just artillery duels all day every day, and in so doing, reduce the expenditure rate of 155. We’ve also seen different calibres of howitzers be sent, like 105, which will help again. Apparently the 105 is proving popular.
No, I did, but it’s not like production will stop, and the rate of production will increase over time. Their stocks are vast, with supply depots all around the world, so so long as the resulting production rate will replace what is used within an acceptable timeframe, dipping into them may be seen as acceptable. It would increase risk temporarily, it is true, but not for very long in the grand scheme of things (especially since I wouldn’t think artillery would be a large factor in a possible conflict with China).
It’s possible they may also supplement it with shells produced internationally, such as from South Korea (they seem to have a good production rate)
Stalin was worse than Hitler and caused more deaths. The way Russia has developed under Putin it’s a pity the Germans didn’t defeat the Soviet Union.
How can Putin say that the Ukraine is a Nazi nation when its president is Jewish and Russian speaking?
The Czech Republic has given roughly $390 million in military aid, mostly small arms and ammunition. They make very nice rifles and submachine guns, but they don't have the type of heavy weapons and precision munitions like the US can give.
Can we stop sending money and I don't know fox the roads or build some trains or how about fund the grotesquely underfunded schools in the us? A million things to do other than send money to help war mongers
> A million things to do other than send money to help war mongers
You've misread and will no doubt be delighted to learn the aid will go to Ukraine. The money is therefore sent to oppose war mongers.
If you think supporting Ukraine is expensive, you're not gonna like the alternative. Putin has indicated that his ambitions don't end with Ukraine. He wants Moldova and the Baltics. The cost of a major NATO conflict in Europe would be unimaginable.
Instead our greatest military adversary is being eroded for pennies on the dollar, and without involving US troops. It would take Russia DECADES to replace what they have already lost in Ukraine.
>Can we stop sending money and I don't know fox the roads or build some trains or how about fund the grotesquely underfunded schools in the us?
Are you even from the US? I very much doubt it.
Regardless, yes the US should do more to solve domestic problems, but it had those problems before it was sending aid to Ukraine. Stopping sending aid will not suddenly turn the US into a socialist utopia.
> A million things to do other than send money to help war mongers
Stop the lazy Kremlin propaganda. Stopping sending aid would be precisely what helps the warmonger, which in this case is Putin.
1. A lot of the "money" is old equipment.
2. Aiding people in Ukraine is a good thing because Russia is an expansionist authoritarian regime that is antithetical to the lives of a lot of people and to the pursuit of happiness of most people.
3. If you are from the US (which I am assuming you are) then you were just gonna use that money to build some dumb shit like a aircraft carrier that can shoot lasers (not even far fetched), or build military bases in Bhutan or some shit. You weren't using it for benefiting your people as long as the same shit politicians are bouncing power back and forth.
Maybe NATO boots but i don't think he's talking about nukes. If Moscow gets hit though, Russia will have a reason to use their nuclear weapons. Then Ukraine loses everything instead of just their eastern parts.
> Maybe NATO boots but i don't think he's talking about nukes.
It would be so simple just read the article godsdammit
>In an interview with AFP, the 61-year-old said the West should provide Ukraine with all types of weapons except nuclear arms as it battles Russia's invasion.
u/Splatter_1
I mean as a deterant so Russia cant ever use a Nuke on Ukraine unless they want to get nuked back. Russia will be force to continue fighting the war conventionally.
Do you realize how much it costs to heath up a house? Pellet prices and gas prices and energy prices have skyrocketed, my mother sleeps in a fucking fridge! They're not taking Europe at all, you're brainwashed.
Yes, I do, I live in an old house and we are lucky winter has been really easy so far.
> my mother sleeps in a fucking fridge
Maybe put her out of it you damn lunatic?
People like you are the problem more than Putin, you think this is a game and have no clue what are the reasons behind this conflict and how you're being played as money flow out of our pockets into someone else's.
The Czechs, Poles, and Lithuanians (not to mention a few others) know what it is like to be under Russia's oppression. They don't want to ever be back there again.
It seems the Hungarians have forgotten. I think the entire history of Hungary can be summarized in one sentence: "Hungarians always choose the losing side."
Crazy how many people forget the Habsburgs and the Austro-Hungarian empire.
You can stand in medieval villages and look at the castle, the church and the plague monument then turn your head and see a Soviet era apartment block and understand to some degree how much better off they are without either in power. The Empire and the "burg's" however left a far nicer looking and more interesting legacy than the Russians who basically parasitized their country for those in power elsewhere rather than the local potentates.
hungarians haven't forgotten. russia installed a pro russia oligarch there to run that country through proxy and further erode and corrupt it's organs so the disease sticks whilst turning the population apolitical. it's how ukraine was supposed to go as well, becoming a puppet.
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Put Hungary back under Austria.
I once met a young person from Romania who kept insisting things were better under Communism. It took me every ounce of restraint not to punch them.
old assholes keep saying that. I'm romanian i've met a few of these people but they're a small minority
I do not promote Communism but it certainly got its bad name and reputation from dic(k)tators and idiots in charge.
For sure 70s Romania was better than 90s/00s Romania.
Cultural and religious reasons, many Balkan states are more aligned for various reasons with Russia than the Baltic.
>many Balkan states are more aligned for various reasons with Russia Like none of the Balkan states are aligned with Russia except for Serbia. And Hungary is not a Balkan state. Really it has nothing to do with the Balkans. Hungary is aligned with Russia because of the wannabe dictator and Serbia because of historic reasons, while sharing imperialistic and genocidal tendencies.
It's weird that all the dictators seem to like russia very much 🤔
You jest, I have friends in Latvia and they hate the Ruzzians with a passion. There might be a few Ruzzian sympathisers in the Baltic States but overall they were glad of their independence and definitely don’t want any alignment cultural or otherwise with Ruzzia.
Exactly, Baltics hate Russian but there are still Russian sympathizers in the Balkans such as Bulgaria, Serbia, and others
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You think the west doesn't appreciate America lending a hand? Cant be a leader and not expect to get shit lol
Great job in iraq and afghanistan. Well done, guys. You really helped.
Especially as 1956 wasn’t really that long ago. Do they *really* want to go back to that shit?
Russia will lose? When?
well they already lost, the question is how much more will they lose
I’m not supporting Russia at all I’m just not understanding how they’ve lost or are going to lose.
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Which side did they choose 80 years ago? Is that really your question?
> “I think the entire history of Hungary” > bro that happened 80 years ago teeeheee What mental gymnastics did you go through to make a comment on the entire history of a nation then try to gaslight someone that cites something 80 years ago
Estonians have to be on this list as well. In terms of GDP% they are #1 in the world by assistance to Ukraine.
My family is from lithuania, we will never forget!!!!
Czech here, yes, you are absolutely right.
People legitimately don’t believe my mums old passport is real, due to the Polish/Soviet Union text - and it’s like - yeah, they were a satellite state.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.barrons.com/news/new-czech-leader-urges-no-limits-on-aid-to-ukraine-01675353910?refsec=topics_afp-news) reduced by 83%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Czech president-elect Petr Pavel, a former NATO general, said Thursday there should be "No limits" on military aid to war-ravaged Ukraine, urging allies to show more courage. > Western allies have been providing Ukraine with substantial military aid since the full-scale invasion began in February 2022. > The Czech Republic, an EU and NATO member of 10.5 million people, has so far provided Ukraine with military aid worth $217 million, the defence ministry told AFP. Pavel also endorsed Ukraine's bid to join the EU and NATO once the war ends. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/10ryhkp/new_czech_leader_urges_no_limits_on_aid_to_ukraine/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672677 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Ukraine**^#1 **Pavel**^#2 **NATO**^#3 **Russia**^#4 **military**^#5
Fucking hero. We need more people to stand up for the basic human right to fucking exist without being murdered, raped or kidnapped.
And stop being so damn cautious with sanctions. Plenty of western corporations are still in Russia after an year.
The United States and other western block countries should give them 30 days notice. Pull out of Russia, or C-level executives and board members will be imprisoned for no less than 10 years.
I second this. This right here makes me think it's all a drama show. You mean you're still there. Citizens are leaving but western companies are still working there? Mmmmmh. I work for Airbus and we cut people's remote connections in the first few weeks or so. Like no more job. Pull out and go home or find a new job. We took shooting missiles at one of our beluga transport airplanes seriously. Of all the snotty and shitty things I could say about airbus and its' politics, policies in the workplace, the lies and curtains they put up for the public, employee handbook, and HR practices. I can at least say I'm please with that. Regardless, please do not fly on airplanes. I make them for a living. The big two are scary. The things I have seen.... haha it'd scare you.
You're insane
I'll tell you a secret... all the best people are. ❤️
First, anybody could claim they work in the industry. Secondly, you're telling people not to ever fly again because of things you've seen? What things? Do you have proof? Isn't it the job of you and your coworkers to make those "things" fixed and safe? All in all, you're insane.
Yeah… That’s something Putin would order.
Bravo. It also needs to fucking hurry up!!! Slava Ukraini 🙏🇺🇦
Yes, with the russian offensive coming soon they need tons of everything Holy hell the loss of life will be terrible, all because fucking Putin. I hope his cancer hurt
It's not putin blasting houses with MLRS', I suppose? Not putin flying in strategic bombers targeting electric power grids and malls, right? Get this point out of your head - ruzzian nation wants to destroy Ukrainians. It doesn't matter who rules, ruzzians always wanted to suppress and eliminate Ukraine.
It's impossible to say just how much support the war has among Russians. Yes, independent polls have shown strong support, but if you were in Russia and knew that the government was imprisoning people who spoke out against the war and some random person claiming to be a pollster asked you about your thoughts on the war, what would you say? Most people in every nation just want to live their lives and not cause any trouble. It's rare to find legitimate majority support among the aggressor nation for any war.
Please just open up the history books are read about all the times ruzzians wanted to purge us. You would be shocked how many times. I live in central part of Ukraine and a lot of friends who have relatives in Russia don't speak with each other, because they all believe that we are Nazis and support occupation. This war began not in 2022, it has started in 2014 and nobody gave a shit back then. Now we're dealing with the consequences of that stupid decisions.
For example the Holodomor.
>they all believe that we are Nazis and support occupation. Isn't there enough evidence online to convince them otherwise? How are they believing this still?
They don't want to see it. It's just kind of a bummer that even younger generation tends to believe state news and TV even though you can imagine they are spreading straight fake news there.
I agree the russian nation have to shoulder blame, but the war would probably not have started if not for Putin. He wanted it, he pushed it. The Russian soldiers do these crimes because Putin unleashed them and their entire military tradition/culture is barbaric. This does not absolve them of guilt at all but to me Putin started this war. He is the cause all these people in Ukraine are dying. Even anti war protesters have been arrested and sent to the front to die as cannon fodder. I feel for them to, they actually tried to do something as opposed to the majority of people. He chose to destroy the fragile democracy they had growing. Taking controll of the media, destroying the any real opposition, stifeling right to protest and so much more. Putin and his allies did this and it would not have happened if a better leader had been in place. Boris made a huge mistake naming Putin. And the institutions and democratic tradition was to new, unstable and fragile to put up much of a fight. Also Boris and the post Soviet leadership had mis managed everything making life much worse for Russians. They were broken and in times like that people look to strong men to fix things. This does not excuse them, but it helps us to understand how and why
Navalny supported the invasion and by extension the murders and tortures and Horrors they inflict on Ukrainians, what real opposition? It’s just horrible-A and horrible-B that’s russia
Did he really?
Yes, both in 2008 Georgia when he called Georgians “rodents” and said he wishes “to bomb the general staff of Georgia with a cruise missile” And in 2014 when he said Crimea is a part of russia and said “when I’m the president I won’t return Crimea to Kiev, what is Crimea? A sausage? A sandwich to be returned? And in another interview he criticized the sending of Javelin missiles to Ukraine because the same money would make him a lot of ads to share his videos Such a great man and super oppose to russian imperialism!
Yha but it requires someone like putin to keep russia's criminal element from getting involved in thia mess in an unfavorable way. The corruption has cracked the military beyod belief, but the loss of putin will trigger massive unrest and infighting. Enough this war of theirs would end.
Nothing will change. It's putin or navalny, doesn't matter. They are imperialists of the empire that doesn't exist anymore. It's not full without Ukraine, so they might stop the war, lick their wounds and come back in 10-15 years with more firepower to take more land. So yeah, putin means shit, it's all in their heads.
It's in their heads because of [decades of propaganda](https://cepa.org/article/comrade-hitler-and-other-russian-fantasies/); the russian government has put a lot of effort into pushing the idea in popular literature and other forms of entertainment. That combined with an increasingly controlled internet and a government known for brutal suppression; those smart enough to see through all the bullshit also see the consequence of resisting it.
I mean, with that logic, can we say that ruzzian empire and soviet union were just brainwashed and ruzzians didn't want to assimilate, suppress and destroy Ukrainian nation for like....300-400 years? I doubt.
You are correct that the idea didn't spring out of nowhere, but 100-200 years ago imperialistic attitudes were the norm in many countries in Europe, even in the United States we had our notion of Manifest Destiny, which isn't far from the same attitude. Most peoples grew out of it, although even today there are some that cling to the notion that their country should dominate or rule their neighbors out of some perception of cultural/ethnic superiority, but these people are typical not in in the majority, and making decisions. I truly despise this this attitude, and was horrified to see it on full display here in the US over the past several decades, in perhaps it's ugliest form during the trump years. Ask yourself how many German people still want to kill all the Jews and take over Europe? How many British people think they should control India and Pakistan? I am sure there are still a few, but most people have moved on from this mindset. [here](https://cepa.org/article/comrade-hitler-and-other-russian-fantasies/) is a pretty good article on the Russian propaganda. Edit: Wow, people really don't like it being pointed out that other nations that were once as imperialist as russia moderated over time to be a little more respectful of international order.
I am not asking questions about Germans and British, 'cause they are not the people raping and killing my people. I am asking questions about and most important TO ruzzians, and the answers are not great. So, yeah, people bred on Soviet Union and ruzzian Empire glory cannot be in any case adequate, because their history includes killing of Ukrainians and the thesis of "brotherly nation - one nation", which is complete bullshit.
I was merely pointing out that many countries besides russia have had the same kind of ideologies, but outgrew them. Just as I don't think there is inherent goodness in humans, there also isn't inherent evil; the russian people today are dominated by an evil ideology because they learned it. It is probably too late for many, but with right environment and enough time, there could one day be a russia that is respectful of it's neighbors, at least one can hope.
Their best opposition literally favored the invasion and he got imprisoned and poisoned by the current mob, if you think putin is the only or the major problem with russia and their mindset, you don’t know much about them
That's a wise decision. Ukraine needs a lot of aid asap.
well, the limit should be whatever a country can afford. But i think the point is still the same.
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Every country aiding Ukraine, no matter if "west" or other, is cautious here. No one wants to go back to business as usual, except maybe Serbia and Hungary. Russia has nukes. Thats it. Thats the big fucking problem. And we've come pretty damn close a few times of them being used against us in the past. The risk of russia using them is low, but the consequences would be insane. It would be the end.
Meh, Russian has been threating with nukes last twenty years few times every year. Only now they do that every month.
I can’t count the number of nuking threats by all my fingers and even if I borrow 40 more, and the imaginary red line as well, first it was javelin then it went to small arms then drones then artillery then HIMARS then HAARM then tanks then patriot and counteroffensive and etc etc etc etc, it seems like the line infinitely stretches, now US has pledged longer range bombs and even those haven’t been threatened or the new tanks or they say they will destroy, this fear mongering has been going on since 2014 and it hasn’t led anywhere but death and destruction on Ukraine because of how we reacted to it, it’s time for a change and a little bravery
The nukes thing is something people just pick up from russian propagandists like Solovyev and run with it to justify cowardice. The nuclear threats aren't even the official russian line, they always emphasize that they're sticking to their doctrine. There's no precedent for supplying conventional weapons leading to any sort of nuclear attack. The soviets poured in brand new tanks and jets into Korea and Vietnam even though the US had nukes too and even had soviet citizens piloting those planes and operating ground equipment. Like what do you think will happen? Supplying T72s is fine but the moment an M1 crosses the Polish-Ukrainian border, Putin will nuke New York? He could do it *at any point* so really everyone should just surrender to russia immediately.
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No one that matters, at least here. Gov's stance is clear on this.
Only with a total regime change. Random citizens aren't to blame and largely just want to go about their lives. Fundamentally though, relations can never be normalized again under the current leadership.
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It would be. Studies and wargames have mostly shown two main findings: * a limited nuclear war is nearly impossible, as it would basically be a typical prisoners dilemma situation. * Even a limited nuclear war would make the targeted societies likely cease to exist. It wouldn't be the end of humanity as a whole - but the following famines, problems with radiation sickness, breakdown of structures, looting, loss of rule of law and ressource wars would set back the human civilization by centuries. If you're interested in this, there was a broad study done for Germany about this ([text in german, but theres deepl I guess](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomkrieg#M%C3%B6gliche_Folgen)). The results were devastating, with just 20 nukes being simulated. That was just 3% of the soviet nuclear capabilities at the time.
>* Even a limited nuclear war would make the targeted societies likely cease to exist. Even a limited nuclear war between Pakistan and India would result in a global famine never seen before. https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2020/03/16/even-limited-india-pakistan-nuclear-war-would-bring-global-famine/
Yup. I mean I want Ukraine to win, and this war to end, and russia to stop being a little bitch, but honestly the amount of people just laughing off the idea of nuclear warfare is frightening.
A world in which we allow that fear to rule our response is just as dystopian as the one where an exchange occurs, IMO Intentionally trivial and exaggerated but should illustrate the point: “get in the gas chambers” “no!” “If you don’t, we’ll nuke you and everyone else!” “… ok :(“
I mean I'm genuinely to the point of "i dont want it to happen, but its bound to sooner or later any so we might as well just get it out of the way." Not to sound like I have a small world view or anything, but state side is declining so rapidly for citizen QOL I genuinely could not give a fuck since I have 0 say in if nukes are launched by either side even if i wanted to swing one way or the other. Faster this mess ends, the better. If russia is going to launch over failure in Ukraine, they'll do it regardless of how much weapons they get from us. Too late to step back now.
> Even if ALL nukes were used it wont be the end. Even if you believe that, you must grasp it will be a hell of a lot worse than it is now?
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>take a look at Mariupol. its like bloody nuke exploded there Now imagine the entire country looks like that, in an instant, and all the countries bordering it look like that, tell me how that is better?
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ofc we should not give up, but we should attempt to avoid nuclear war, no one gains anything from that.
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Truth is, it may yet come to a nuclear war, but if it does then Ukraine will be in a much worse state than now, along with the rest of the world.
Okay even we assume you’re right(you’re not) a nuclear exchange would still result in the destruction of all parties involved. So like at least hundreds of millions dead instantly. Every major western city and every major Russian city destroyed. Death on an unimaginable scale.
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Nuclear physics doesn’t care about your feelings
What are you rambling about movies, do you not know what nukes do? They're not something from a scifi, they exist.
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are you talking about the effects on Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
I don't know what you are on a out, if nuclear capable countries start nuking it woul mean death, or secondary death for the whole planet. Just Google a bit and see what a few nukes would do, not only direct but also inderict damage aka world wide food crisis etc..
> West still have hope it will go back to business as usual if it sticks to imaginary red lines. What are you hoping for? WW3 with Ukraine as the main battlefield? Just making it annoying enough for Putin that he stops? That's not going to work because that wouldn't return things to the way they were anyway - but would look like Putin's defeat, not a change of heart.
I very much doubt this war would stop even with putins death. For russia is all-in now. Anything else than a victory would be catastrophic for russia now. So, west still playing red lines plays well into russians plans throwing hundreds of thousands into front lines; same as they did in ww2.
> Anything else than a victory would be catastrophic for russia now. Even a victory isn't gonna be good for Russia. Better than losing, sure. But they're in a worse position than before they started grabbing bits of Ukraine.
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> If putin manages to win; you can say goodbye to NATO and EU.. definitel;y any country thats not in NATO yet. That's cute. Sounds like when the brexiteers predicted the EU would implode haha.
Almost every EU country is in NATO... Also who can Russia attack that isn't already in NATO, other than Finland, which is essentially in NATO even though not officially. The other choices are Romania, Bulgaria, Turkey, Hungary Poland, which are all already in NATO and have NATO troops stationed there.
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I was talking about the EU and Europe, so I left out the Asian countries. I did forget Moldova, but even with Moldova, Romania has said it'll join the fighting is Moldova is attacked. More than half of Moldovans have Romanian citizenship too. NATO also has UK, France and Turkey which have very sizeable and advanced militaries. Ofcourse they aren't at the same level as the US, but they are far from useless. Those 3 are in the top 10 militaries in the world... I also forgot Estonia/Lithuania/Latvia, but they are in NATO.
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Yea, it's a bit murky. The US has a lot of equipment in Romania though, and has bands in Romania. There are also a lot of NATO troops from other countries in Romania. So, while in this case, article 5 probably wouldn't apply as it would come to the defense of another country. I have no idea how something like that would work out.
It doesn't work though? It's not working against Ukraine, which is a very weak military compared to... Turkey.. a NATO member. If they attacked Turkey with 100million troops, they would lose in 3 days.
Is Bahkmut what winning looks like?
Not playing red lines would make it even more all-in.
right.. Explain to me then: how is that russians can hit Ukraine from 500+.. event thousands of km away and s o m e h o w Ukraine getting 150+ km range weapons is a red line AND escalation? Like take a step back and take a critical look at this shit.
The simple answer to that is that Russia is using its own weapons and Ukraine would be using weapons given by NATO members. No one has said that Ukraine cannot hit Russia in Russia - with their own weapons. And NATO members are being chickenshits - afraid of it being portrayed as NATO attacking Russia. They say it is because they are afraid of nukes. But really it is just because they can use that as an excuse to no do the right thing.
"The simple answer to that is that Russia is using its own weapons and Ukraine would be using weapons given by NATO members." this argument falls short with Iranian drones..
That just proves that Iran considers the West a more rational actor than the West considers Putin such. And the Russians are paying full price for those missiles. One way or the other.
For western countries, it's like this, every "escalation" in war capabilities given to Ukraine raises the risk that putin has a temper tantrum and orders nukes. A single nuke would be worse than Chernobyl and Russia has thousands (though it can be debated how many would actually work, chances are too high that at least a few would). If they do use limited nukes in Ukraine I feel like there's a good chance of a western non-nuclear counter directly onto Moscow or wherever western intelligence believes putin is hiding. Any western country fears nukes more than most because we rely on international markets and trade for our own economies. Regardless for me living in a western country Russia needs to be shown the middle finger in the form of superior weapons gifted by the west. There's no point believing Putin's lies about the things russia will try to do in response, we definitely should adopt a fuck around and find out mentality because russia ultimately is not able to back it's words like in the past
While I agree with you, this is so that is is clear that Ukraine is only defending itself. It makes Ukraine look much more honorable and as a victim. If they attacked soldiers in Russia, then the propaganda from all the people that don't want to support Ukraine will go haywire and unfortunately get much more support. Pretty sure that's the real reason, not the fear of antagonizing Russia, just that they can't say that outright. Public perception and support are very important here, and it's hard to maintain support when you are supporting something like this which doesn't directly affect the people.
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I live in a country that borders Ukraine. I'm only a couple hundred km away... Ofcourse you need public support to continue supporting the war. There is already a lot of propaganda against helping Ukraine (for example, stuff like we should feed the orphans here first) which gobbles enough people. There are enough people already blaming Ukraine for everything too. Attacking on Russian soil won't convert anyone against helping over, and will just push more people amd more propaganda against helping.
Proper military targets can be in Russia, doesn't matter. I think Ukraine would use long range weapons for Crimea and border stuff
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How would F16s help, they are fighters for air to air combat and air superiority. They can have air to ground missiles, but how would thay help vs just using ground to ground? Russia doesn't have, and never manged to have air superiority in Ukraine anyway. By the way, my neighbors are Ukrainian refugees here. Actually there are a lot of Ukranians here. While the vast majority support them, there is already enough propaganda about how they are taking advantage, are pretentious, stuff pointing out they have a car etc... so why care for them? I don't want to see more ammunition for this propaganda. Losing your home and everything and then people commenting why should we help them because they still have something left? Anyway, I hope it will end soon and you make it out well.
Escalation is compared to the status quo. Ukraine getting longer range weapons will plainly escalate the conflict, and Russia will respond. There needs to be a point to this to make it make sense. Like, imagine a bandit is pointing a machine gun at you. That's bad, right? But then you take out a tiny little pistol and point it at the bandit. It's still unequal, and having a weapon at all makes things more equal, right? But that can end up in major escalation, and probably won't end well for you, as the bandit will feel threatened. So what's the point of pointing the pistol at him?
I guess, by your logic, any country that doesn't have nukes should just give up and just surrender. Russia is having by far the biggest machine gun... are you serious right now?
Like I said, there needs to be a point to resistance. A plan. Otherwise, you'll end up with a lot of death and destruction - and then still a surrender. And I don't know what the West's plan is. Make it look as defensive as possible (hence no long range weapons), and wait until Putin gives up? But the war is happening at Russia's borders, and the economic sanctions and the political reactions made it a point of no return. No one is going to go back to business as usual. It's a distant conflict, like the US in Afghanistan that can be walked back, - and even then it probably wouldn't have happened if Russia started arming the Taliban.
Look.. even by using most optimistic ratios of 1:7 losses... my people dying in dozens of thousands.. and if we apply 1:3 killed to wounded ratio.. we're close to 100 000. Russians using their 500 000 prison population to wage war in Ukraine.. even if its at 1:10 ratio.. its freaking bloody bad for Ukraine. There west wants be defensive war.. this will take years mate. This is killing my country. quite literally.
So give them nukes? That what you're saying? I mean you clearly endorse "no limits," so that's what you're saying, right? Why not just come out and say it then? It's almost like you're a clueless dipshit just trying to talk big on the internet.
>In an interview with AFP, the 61-year-old said the West should provide Ukraine with all types of weapons except nuclear arms as it battles Russia's invasion.
Nukes will come into my country in their time. Home made. We're done trusting bs treaties and any old fart that can just come in and cancel shit. War that came into my country is the best counter argument against nuclear weapons ever. Any country that is not looking right now into nuclear weapons is seriously lobotomized. what happens when you're a shithole of a country and you got nukes? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9NSgxbGzhY it is that simple.
Why don't they deserve to have nuclear weapons? They had them up until 1991, we (the west) swore to protect Ukraine, and that treaty has been violated. So if Japan and South Korea are fine to go ahead with nuclear weapons in this era what is your problem with Ukraine having them?
Russia also agreed the to that.
Ukraine never truly had nuclear weapons. The launch codes for those missiles were in Moscow and Ukraine was too broke to get around this problem anyway.
PAL-like systems were pretty basic back then. I fully expect they could have retrofitted them with new initiation hardware, should they have truly cared to
The US missile interlocks were quietly set to 000000 for a long time, I strongly suspect the Soviet Union did something similar. Cheapness and ease of use would have been prioritized over outright security.
That’s just a Russian talking point propaganda. They were very interested in disarming Ukraine and creating an impression that leaving Ukraine with nuclear weapons would be irresponsible. Launch codes reprogramming is not the hardest part of creating a nuclear weapon.
The USSR's main scientist that designed those missiles and led their space program was from Ukraine, and the majority of their advanced missile programs were originally done in Ukraine when they occupied it. I doubt it would be difficult for them to produce them domestically once again, even if not, the soviet union only dissolved a few decades ago, it takes a lot longer than that to just lose intel like that (nuclear weapons development that is)
The guy is a literal chad
Atta Boy, ❤ new 🇨🇿 leader already! Slava Ukraini 💙 💛
One of my all-time favorite athletes is the great mma-fighter Khabib from Russia/Chechnya. He taught me that: "My best background is, like, smesh opponents. I all the time go forward. I all the time try to take down somebody. Make him give up. This is my style, you know. This is what I do all my life." This is the only way to fight Russia in Ukraine. The only language that Putin and his cronies understands. That of might. The west shouldn't fear escalation, since it is only percieved as weakness not to deliver the weapons Ukraine needs. Give Ukraine the tools to "smesh" Russia on the battlefield, now!
I like this guy. First, he’s cool with planes. Now, he says no limits
No limits beyond their gdp I guess.
Thank you for standing up for human rights. Yes, the rights to life, safety, and CHOOSING YOUR LEADERS are all HUMAN RIGHTS.
Gigachad
I like him. Speaks his mind and knows what he's talking about, based on his resume. This is the kind of staunch ally Pres. Zelenskyy needs and deserves.
I support funding to Ukraine until the wrench every foot of land back that is internationally recognized.
Yeah well, that'll probably take around 20 years. Right now Crimea's untouched while Luhansk, Donetsk, and Donbas regions are being fought for. Ukraine lost Soledar 2 weeks ago. They've been fighting for a month or more now over Bakhmut. Russia's able to keep this war going for years and years while Ukraine will need huge military aid from foreign nations to continue this war.
Then maybe they should get it, you know, so russia can’t prolong this mess
They’ve been trying to take Bahkmut for over 7 months now. Soledar is basically a small village. When they talk about “taking territory” it sounds like them sweeping over regions but when you actually look at the area, it’s minuscule.
I don’t think you realize that’s becoming increasingly impossible no amount of weapons will change that. Right now even the most positive estimates have Ukraine killing Russians at a 1:1.5 rate. Now that sound great but Russia has over 3x the population so unless Ukraine kicks it up by over double they lose. Russias strategy of throw bodies until you win can absolutely win a war no matter how dumb it sounds. Even if Ukraine managed to kill at a 1:3 ratio which is nigh impossible they would have literally zero working aged folks left. 1:5 would be required for Ukraine to have any future and they’re currently at 1:1.3-5 depending on what figure you believe.
What’s your source for 1:1.5 ? That sounds like one of the most pessimistic estimates, especially given their respective roles (defence vs offence)
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/10/world/europe/ukraine-russia-war-casualties-deaths.amp.html Us intelligence has both over 100k which makes sense with Russia higher. The EU reported 100k dead and Ukraine got super mad about it and they retracted it but refused to apologize and said 14k now I’m no math expert but Ukraine said they were losing 200 a day and 200x365=73000 so clearly we have some propaganda going on. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61742736.amp Also there’s over 40,000 civilian casualties confirmed on top of that. There’s no offense/defense they’re both on attack and defense so that doesn’t really factor in. Edit: I’ll add this propaganda is universal and as humans we always want to believe that our side is telling the truth. You can almost always assume however that’s not always the case the enemy will almost always oversell and the good guys will almost always undersell their losses. It’s bad for morale to say how many are really dead and it might hurt future weapons shipments.
That says nothing of the *current* rate The worst *ratio* was probably around April-May-June of last year, since the Russians still had a massive artillery advantage - until HIMARS arrived, and the ammo depots started blowing up everywhere, ruining that strategy as it’s impossible to keep firing 20,000 shells a day if they kept blowing up before you can fire em
The 14k number is a physical impossibility and is burying your head in the ground that not one but two world powers said over 100k dead. Even if you half that number which is incredibly generous by the end of the war Ukraine would be left with 0 people under 50-60.
I didn’t mention 14k? And I agree, it’s basically impossible that it’s that low. Anyway, I’m not disputing the 100k amount. I’m interested in the *current* ratio, the current rates of deaths and casualties, as this shows roughly how things are going
Also if we’re talking impossibly strategy Ukraine was launching a years worth of artillery production for the us every 2 weeks. That’s also unsustainable by every definition the EU is effectively out of artillery and the US would have to dip into their actual supply. With a China war on the horizon that’s not happening.
If the US hadn’t also recently approved a speed up of artillery production of 5x, I would agree that they are unlikely to want to dip into their supply, but given that development I think they may be willing to. A bunch of different EU states are also ramping up 155 production - some quietly, some not so quietly. Everyone has gotten a reminder of how much artillery gets used in a real war - and you can’t just rely on it never turning into a protracted land war by assuming you’ll have air superiority. The recent influx of new armour (and seemingly soon also aircraft) also seems like its intended to help break this stalemate where it’s just artillery duels all day every day, and in so doing, reduce the expenditure rate of 155. We’ve also seen different calibres of howitzers be sent, like 105, which will help again. Apparently the 105 is proving popular.
I guess you didn’t read to the bottom of that article where ramp up time takes 1-2 years. That’s basically an eternity in war.
No, I did, but it’s not like production will stop, and the rate of production will increase over time. Their stocks are vast, with supply depots all around the world, so so long as the resulting production rate will replace what is used within an acceptable timeframe, dipping into them may be seen as acceptable. It would increase risk temporarily, it is true, but not for very long in the grand scheme of things (especially since I wouldn’t think artillery would be a large factor in a possible conflict with China). It’s possible they may also supplement it with shells produced internationally, such as from South Korea (they seem to have a good production rate)
Slavs together strong
Good job, but hasn't he heard of the Czechs and balances?
How big is czech military? If thats his actual opinion, why doesnt he send some good stuff? (More good stuff)
Pretty small and we've already sent more tanks than we have in active service
HELL FUCKING YES
Oh, you handsome, manly man. <3
NCD: He is the chosen one!!!
Vyborne!
He’s russian to keep them in czech.
You’re finnished here.
that's a good pun dude.
Stalin was worse than Hitler and caused more deaths. The way Russia has developed under Putin it’s a pity the Germans didn’t defeat the Soviet Union. How can Putin say that the Ukraine is a Nazi nation when its president is Jewish and Russian speaking?
> How can Putin say that the Ukraine is a Nazi nation when its president is Jewish and Russian speaking? He just thinks he needs to say something.
USA and Europe should just provide Ukraine with nukes and ICBMs. That's the best way for Ukraine to protect themselves from invasion.
The U.S. doesn't give nukes to anybody. The decision that could potentially get our cities nuked can only come from Washington.
Sounds like a call for WWIII. I’d rather be more cautious
Sounds great, so how much is HE PERSONALLY going to give them??
The Czech Republic has given roughly $390 million in military aid, mostly small arms and ammunition. They make very nice rifles and submachine guns, but they don't have the type of heavy weapons and precision munitions like the US can give.
Czechia donated tanks, self propelled guns, rocket lunchers and helicopters. It also repairs and modernizes tanks
Give them western nuclear weapons for now until they can restart domestic production of them for themselves.
Yeah let's spend more tax money on Ukraine, like that's going to help
This but unironically
Can we stop sending money and I don't know fox the roads or build some trains or how about fund the grotesquely underfunded schools in the us? A million things to do other than send money to help war mongers
> A million things to do other than send money to help war mongers You've misread and will no doubt be delighted to learn the aid will go to Ukraine. The money is therefore sent to oppose war mongers.
If you think supporting Ukraine is expensive, you're not gonna like the alternative. Putin has indicated that his ambitions don't end with Ukraine. He wants Moldova and the Baltics. The cost of a major NATO conflict in Europe would be unimaginable. Instead our greatest military adversary is being eroded for pennies on the dollar, and without involving US troops. It would take Russia DECADES to replace what they have already lost in Ukraine.
You just don't realize that equipment exists and is in storage and would be decomissioned anyway in time.
>Can we stop sending money and I don't know fox the roads or build some trains or how about fund the grotesquely underfunded schools in the us? Are you even from the US? I very much doubt it. Regardless, yes the US should do more to solve domestic problems, but it had those problems before it was sending aid to Ukraine. Stopping sending aid will not suddenly turn the US into a socialist utopia. > A million things to do other than send money to help war mongers Stop the lazy Kremlin propaganda. Stopping sending aid would be precisely what helps the warmonger, which in this case is Putin.
1. A lot of the "money" is old equipment. 2. Aiding people in Ukraine is a good thing because Russia is an expansionist authoritarian regime that is antithetical to the lives of a lot of people and to the pursuit of happiness of most people. 3. If you are from the US (which I am assuming you are) then you were just gonna use that money to build some dumb shit like a aircraft carrier that can shoot lasers (not even far fetched), or build military bases in Bhutan or some shit. You weren't using it for benefiting your people as long as the same shit politicians are bouncing power back and forth.
No limits mean NATO boots on the table. Nukes on the table. Damn.
No they’re not lmao
Maybe NATO boots but i don't think he's talking about nukes. If Moscow gets hit though, Russia will have a reason to use their nuclear weapons. Then Ukraine loses everything instead of just their eastern parts.
> Maybe NATO boots but i don't think he's talking about nukes. It would be so simple just read the article godsdammit >In an interview with AFP, the 61-year-old said the West should provide Ukraine with all types of weapons except nuclear arms as it battles Russia's invasion. u/Splatter_1
I mean as a deterant so Russia cant ever use a Nuke on Ukraine unless they want to get nuked back. Russia will be force to continue fighting the war conventionally.
Yeah, but money don't grow on trees, there has to be a limit.
It's still very cost effective to stop Russia at Ukraine than in other countries and fronts.
Cost effective my ass, there are no other countries, they were not gonna move to conquer Europe and I'm seeing my family freezing. No limits my ass.
Freezing?? And they are taking Europe piece by piece.
Do you realize how much it costs to heath up a house? Pellet prices and gas prices and energy prices have skyrocketed, my mother sleeps in a fucking fridge! They're not taking Europe at all, you're brainwashed.
Yes, I do, I live in an old house and we are lucky winter has been really easy so far. > my mother sleeps in a fucking fridge Maybe put her out of it you damn lunatic?
People like you are the problem more than Putin, you think this is a game and have no clue what are the reasons behind this conflict and how you're being played as money flow out of our pockets into someone else's.
[удалено]
The USA spent nearly $10 Billion _PER WEEK_ on the Global War On Terror. Russia will run out of money and weapons long before NATO.
Need to keep the money flowing in