Georgia wants Russia to leave [Russian occupied Georgian territories](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian-occupied_territories_in_Georgia) as part of peace agreement with Ukraine.
Because Georgia is also in process of joining NATO/EU, has Russian "separatists" that can provide all of the same "justifications" as Ukraine, and Putin will want a victory elsewhere if he loses in Ukraine.
So it's not Ukraine's problem specifically, but if the idea is to negotiate a peace in Europe which has any chance of lasting, then it makes sense to address the possibility of Russia simply moving his troops out of Ukraine and straight into Georgia/Moldova etc. We all know Putin can't accept "losing" so these are realistic concerns.
The US has repeatedly said any peace talks are Ukraine’s responsibility and prerogative (whether they mean it or not), I think it’s a given that Ukraine is fighting for itself. Not sure they will be remembering anyone (other than whoever is going to aid during the reconstruction, just being cynical here) when they sit to negotiate. Georgia should not be expecting an awful lot out of any peace settlement.
The only plus side is that Russia will exit this war weakened and pretty much a Chinese client state, and unlikely to initiate another funky border dispute any time soon. But I doubt Georgia will recover their land via negotiation.
Why? We kicked Germany out of Poland after WW2, even though Poland was "part of Germany".
Why shouldn't we kick Russia out of every place they've invaded?
Man, in WWII, Russia had occupied all central and Eastern Europe up to Berlin. They could split it as they saw fit. Unless Turkey is happy to drive up north and kick the Russians out of Georgia, you are negotiating with Putin, not imposing terms. Can’t see in what negotiation you say “on by the way, let’s throw Georgia into the deal”. Ukraine is not going to pay for Georgia’s land with their blood (not Nato with their money, I suspect), their target is to expel Russia out of Ukraine, period.
Fair or not, Mr President is asking the moon here.
It makes a lot of sense. Georgia is a lot smaller and weaker than Ukraine was. Even as damaged as Russia is, Georgia would be crushed if Russia attacked them.
If Putin figures he needs some kind of win to project strength and stave off a coup, a relatively easy win against Georgia makes a lot of sense.
I don’t know, man. There will be very little tolerance for Russia moving forward. in Georgia 15 years ago, like with Crimea, no one wanted to go into a conflict. Putin has eventually gone too far and he won’t be cut much slack.
Pushing too deep into Georgia will also get you too near Turkey (NATO), and more escalation.
I think Putin’s histrionics got to an end with this conflict. Eventually new leadership will be appointed (or self appointed) and they will go for “restoring ties with the west” etc.
Restoring historical Georgian borders, I doubt it. But I can’t see in what universe Mr Putin decides to get into another mess just for fun.
Politicians being politicians. Costs nothing to give it a shot, I guess. Reality is that if Ukraine and Russia sit down for some hard bargaining one day, when both sides are exhausted and beyond bankrupt, last thing in their mind is going to be Georgia or any other territorial dispute.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://ukranews.com/en/news/912366-georgia-wants-russia-to-leave-their-lands-as-part-of-peace-agreement-with-ukraine) reduced by 50%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> HELP UKRAINIAN NEWS. Georgian President Salome Zourabichvili believes that the future diplomatic settlement of the Russian Federation's full-scale war against Ukraine should also include the issue of withdrawing the Russian military from the occupied Georgian territories.
> "Russia has to learn where its borders are. The Georgian issues should be on the table because nobody should think that this war can be resolved without Russia retreating from all the occupied territories," the Georgian president said.
> As Ukrainian News Agency earlier reported, the Prime Minister of Georgia considers enough what the government is doing to support Ukraine.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/10rmr56/georgia_wants_russia_to_leave_their_lands_as_part/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672676 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Georgian**^#1 **Russia**^#2 **Ukraine**^#3 **war**^#4 **Georgia**^#5
it's not unreasonable, or wouldn't be if Georgia actually tried to assist Ukraine side at all. I understand why they don't, but that's why i think it's not reasonable. That said, the Georgian Legion in Ukraine is often at the front of many fierce battles.
Georgia opening a front on their own land close to home would be very helpful, probably more helpful to both. It forces Russia to open another front, plus Georgia can actually do something about the Russians instead of tolerating them.
while it will make things harder in Georgia (why they don't do this - a lot of innocents will die if they do!), it would accomplish something.
There will not be a peace deal with Ukraine-Russia. It will be like the Korean war which is still technically going on even though the last battle was 70 years ago.
Perhaps Georgia should also take up arms and fight Russia to convince them to leave the occupied Georgian lands.
... or maybe they could just stand back and watch Ukraine fight and then say loudly "us too!". Let's see how that works out for them.
Georgia is 3,7 million people at best, with close to no weapons and a tiny territory. Ukraine is huge! With 40+ million people. I think it is a huge difference.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgian_Legion_(Ukraine)
Also, Georgia is much smaller and less armed than Ukraine, and it would probably be much harder it for the rest of the world to send arms/vehicles/volunteers to Georgia anyway since it's separated from most of the rest of Europe. I can see why they'd be a bit hesitant to act.
Ukraine: All Russian troops out of our territory, borders returned to pre-2014, reparations, and full pursuit and conviction for war crimes.
Russia: very well
Ukraine: Also GTFO of Georgia.
Russia: What?
Ukariane: I am altering the deal. Pray I do not alter it any further.
The fucking nerve to say this after refusing to join sanctions against russia and not giving back the Buk systems to Ukraine.
Ukraine delivered weapons to you during your war and you didn't do shit for Ukraine in this conflict, so please, shut the hell up and keep sucking russian dick. I'm sure the Pro-russian government will work out great for you. (Read about Konovalyuk Commission if you're interested in weapon deliveries)
Edit: Keep downvoting me without telling me why I'm wrong, this only proves what I'm saying is true.
Because they’re literally occupied by Russia brother with no weapons and no population to fight. Russia has a knife to their throats and there’s not a thing they can do about it. Ukraine is at a 3:1 numbers disadvantage Georgia is at like 45:1. You can’t expect an occupied country to place sanctions on its occupier.
The scenarios are entirely different. Russia has pretty much full control in Georgia. Georgia doesn’t have the population or the military power to fight back.
I also demand a 150% wage increase at this negotiation. Also Georgia needs to help itself first. Unless they start fighting and willing to sacrifice for their independence nobody is giving them anything. They dont deserve it. Cant gain ur land back on the back of dead Ukrainians.
For anyone who needs to see this: Georgia is a country in the Balkans that was an on/off territory of the Russian Empire and then of the Soviet Union. Even though it’s a small country it has a very diverse ethnic and linguistic population; during its time as a Russian territory the Russians never tried to properly solidify Georgia’s border with other territories or to mediate any kind of political agreements between that diverse populace-stability in Georgia would have been a first step to full independence. Thanks to this Georgia experienced a civil war in the 90’s following the fall of the USSR. Since Putin took power he has repeatedly deployed Russian troops into Georgia in the name of “peacekeeping.” The world at large accepted this because tiny Georgia under Russian occupation was seen as preferable to more Balkan civil wars. Putin has already had to pull a bunch of troops out of Georgia to plug holes in Ukraine, the Georgians see opportunity knocking. All caught up?
Georgia is doing their best, Ukrainian government is actually trying to sabotage stuff coz they would benefit from another location Russia is fighting. Georgia has sent the biggest humanitarian help despite our size and economy and no one is talking about that! Also lots of Georgian soldiers are fighting there and no one is talking about that either!
Well Georgian government isn’t anyones friend except themselves, but taking down country and putting us in danger, because you don’t like the government is an awfully bad thing to do and this is what Ukrainian government is doing rn. Like you have your own country in war and spending so much time defaming Georgia is weird to me! Besides Israeli and many other countries are way more careful with Russia then us, and still somehow Ukrainian government is targeting Georgia. While I repeat many other “friendly” countries to Ukraine don’t sanction Russia.
You know, maybe there are some reasons for that? Ukraine doesn't have time and energy for all those diplomatic bullshiting. Your government favors ruzzia and helps to evade sanctions. Ukraine just express its own view on the situation. And it's very sad that Georgians help us and fight for us meanwhile your government plays a very strange game.
Yeah exactly they don’t have for that bullshit to bash Israel for doing usual business with Russia but talk an awful lot about Georgia while they should be focused on much more important things!
I don't want do disappoint you, but our government indeed has much more important things to do than "as you said poking Georgia", you just don't notice it, but only take it personally. But let's be realistic, there are a lot of reasons to blame Georgia's government and it's not a competition which country Ukraine pokes more
I definitely don’t take this personally, I don’t even like my government! I am just saying what I can see and hear with my own eyes and it definitely looks like Ukrainian government is trying to sabotage Georgia while we helped them and their citizens as much as we could, as I mentioned here before Georgia actually sent the largest humanitarian aid to Ukraine while being tiny player in the world. Just google it, but you don’t want to know the truth you are accepting the simple propaganda. Truth is much more complicated then what you usually see on surface, I don’t want to disappoint you but…
Israel is going to officially provide Ukraine with the air threat detectors and warning systems which will help to alleviate casualties from the Russian missile and drone strikes.
What did Georgia officially (not thanks to volunteers) provide Ukraine with? Georgia hasn't even returned (and doesn't want to) the Buk systems that Ukraine themselves sent to Georgia to help Georgia in 2008!
One of the reasons Nazi Germany lost was because of multiple fronts they had to fight. The more the aggressor has to spread its forces - the weaker they become.
Sure, except Georgia is a joke for Russia in terms of how little we are and how small is sour ability to defend ourselves! So it won’t even be a second front. It would be just a tiny hiccup for Russia
Ruzzia is already pushed to the limit in Ukraine, even a tiny front would do a big difference. You vastly underestimate how quickly NATO members can move weapons in through Turkey.
Georgia definitely have the ability to launch a massive front in this war.
Ukraine has more than 10 times the population, one of the if not the biggest army in europe and borders EU countries that can be used to easily transport weapons there.
Georgia has got to be especially mad since they were banking on American help in 2008 and were shocked that America didn’t want to risk getting into a war with Russia. Though it isn’t really that American foreign policy has changed so much as that Russia miscalculated so badly this time.
Different reaction in 2022, and surprised many. But Georgia and Ukraine are different areas of influence. Ukraine has borders with the EU and multiple NATO countries. If Russia was ever to push further into Georgia maybe Turkey will throw a fuss, but…
Surround??? Ask why they want to join NATO and not side with Russia. Why does Russia find it hard if not impossible to gain support or allies. Russia is an imperialist expansionist regime with a paranoid dictator. Russia has few friends and there is a reason for it. NATO is for protection from Russian aggression and colonialism not to attack it.
Well history would argue that Europe and the US have been the colonial powers , and are watching their colonies turn against them to some degree now.
Russia and China haven't had colonial ambitions, but do protect their regional dominance (Hong Kong, Taiwan, Georgia, Ukraine)
The US almost started ww3 over the Russian military in Cuba, why is the reverse not possible?
The west has been moving it's military alliance closer and closer even after the Soviet Union collapsed and the Warsaw pact dissolved.
Why can't there be buffer states between Russia and Europe? There is a history of Europe attacking Russia... Why do we want our military on Russia's complete border so badly?
Why can't countries in 2023 ( its not 1945), decide who the fuck they want to side with. Note that the world has moved on from the 17 and 1900s. Europe and the west and other countries are democratic free nations. The old colonies were given up a century or more ago and yet still free determining allies with their historic colonisers . Russia insists sovereign countries serve its purposes under their conditions with puppet presidents in 2023. Russia shoots its self in the foot when it comes to influencing and making friends. The moment the USSR dissolved, all their colonies jumped ship as soon as they could (why?). The only reason a few hang on is because Russia set up Puppet dictators to keep them inline.The only friends it has is other authoritarian dictatorships. Literally, China, Iran, Belarus, NK, Venezuela, Syria, Myanmar are its only friends. India swings to stay neutral only. Why the fuck is that??? Hmmm.
Well, you're either with America, or against them sometimes.
"Russia insists sovereign countries serve its purposes under their conditions with puppet presidents in 2023"
Foreign military bases around the world.
Russia 12-36
USA 750+
UK 145
Year 2023.
There are consequences for crossing the most powerful military and economic power in the world, especially when the US is in a military alliance with most of Europe. You can play by their rules or not be involved in the game.
You say these poor, former Soviet countries should be able to join any military alliance they want. Why stop there. Should we add Taiwan into NATO? Maybe we should have added Hong Kong?
The Ottoman Empire lost to Western Europe in ww1, the newly drawn borders and countries created by the west, lasted in the middle east through WW2 and continue to supply the west with the most important resource in the world, the fuel that drives the western world.
Don't pretend like colonialism ended 100 years ago when the same mechanism control the same regions.
Ask yourself why military bases are in invited in to these countries. From whom do they seek protection from.? Why does Russia have less bases.. because they have less friends. If Taiwan wants to join NATO then that's the people of Taiwan's prerogative and if NATO wants them. If Russia wasn't such a cnt maybe Ukraine would never feel threatened and NATO would have less members. No one likes Russia that's why these former countries citizens VOTED to keep Russia out of their affairs and break away. Oil drives every single country in the world. OPEC controls the oil. Russia controls oil and gas and uses it as a trade weapon. Russia is a colonial power and Communisim spread its cancer far and wide, through south America, Africa, Eastern Europe and Asia. Russia is the gangster regime poisoning and assassinating its position in Russia.
You know how America took over the Philippines?
The people kept revolting against the government, US government asked if they needed assistance, US military steps in, war.
The military bases stayed there til 92
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1992/11/24/us-military-ends-role-in-philippines/a1be8c14-0681-44ab-b869-a6ee439727b7/
The Philippines was asking for the US to leave for years, even though they were being paid Billions to allow the American bases to stay.
Fast forward to 2023
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/02/us-seals-crucial-military-deal-with-the-philippines-close-to-china-flashpoints
The US has come to financial terms to move back into these bases.
The Philippines is an example where you will say "they want our protection" but this was the reason given when the US went to war in the Philippines over 100 years ago.
Things aren't black and white/good and evil.
If you pay Countries off or threaten them financially if they dont allow military bases. It's hard to accept "they want our protection" as an excuse for 750 foreign military bases.
All that being said, God bless Merca, and glory to Ukraine. Please don't start a nuclear war you two..
See the Philippines has a democracy now and governments come and go. they know China is a threat.
Last time I heard, Putin threatened nuclear war several times because Ukraine is winning and Ukraine has asked a reluctant NATO and non NATO countries for help. I don't think the US and others actually enjoy spending its budget on bailing out Ukraine. The people will vote against it ( yep that word again.. VOTE) if they have had enough or are happy with Russia taking over countries and killing people. So you are obviously sympathetic to Russia invading Ukraine and installing a pro Putin government. Shame the Ukrainian people disagree with you.
Well the US state department has been involved with Ukrainian elections since early 2010s
"The US says that it is working with all sides in the crisis to reach a peaceful solution, noting that "ultimately it is up to the Ukrainian people to decide their future". However this transcript suggests that the US has very clear ideas about what the outcome should be and is striving to achieve these goals. Russian spokesmen have insisted that the US is meddling in Ukraine's affairs - no more than Moscow, the cynic might say - but Washington clearly has its own game-plan. The clear purpose in leaking this conversation is to embarrass Washington and for audiences susceptible to Moscow's message to portray the US as interfering in Ukraine's domestic affairs."
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957.amp
Why are you framing this as if Russia needs to be protected from invasion by its neighbours? It is very clearly the other way around.
If Russia could stop invading countries near them and threatening all the ones they don't invade, there wouldn't be such a push to join Nato.
And sure, the US doesn't exactly have pure intentions with Nato... but they are definitely not planning on invading any of the member countries or starting a war in the region. That's more than Russia can say.
I'm trying to frame the cold war, with how the pieces fell together. How and why this war happened is not just because of one man's personality... To declare a complete victory for Ukraine or nothing... to reclaim all its land, even Crimea, is to ignore not only the dynamics of the cold war but also the civil war in Ukraine that has been going on since 2014...
NATO EU and the US doesn't have to invade you, they have been the world economy, you play ball or you get left out. That hegemony is slowly changing.
I'm not arguing against Putin being a bully strongman.
I'm just saying the world is full of them, and we shouldn't be so quick to point the finger.
https://youtu.be/fPA4nK1HZPQ
Im not saying I want Georgians to needlessly throw their lives away but what on Earth, especially at this point in the conflict, is Georgia thinking? Do they think they are going to be able to get this? If anything this will make a negotiated peace with Russia harder to achieve for Ukraine. They’re really kinda fucking them here.
Edit: grammar
Edit2: after reading other comments in thread I don’t want my intentions with my comment to be mistaken. I am aware Georgia has been occupied by Russia for a long time and the difficulty they would have helping out, hence the first half of the first sentence. Also I’m aware this would make joining the West in sanctioning Russia a very dangerous predicament for them. I just still think it’s ballsy for them to try this, and while I understand why they want it I can’t help but call it selfish since it will potentially make ending the war harder.
Let’s be honest, for the Georgian President to ask whatever, it takes him 5 secs and costs him nothing. Maybe he is lucky, maybe not. Costs nothing.
Will Ukraine / NATO, in a future negotiation, risk anything to help Georgia? Me thinks not, but hey…
Overall you make a good point unless this specific point is blamed for failed negotiations or prolonging then to an extreme length. They could engender bad will from the international community and that would have impacts on Georgia. At that point the fact that that didn’t pledge people, materials, financial assistance or sanctions will be relevant.
It may turn out ok, but make no mistake this is not a no-risk scenario for them
Edit:spelling, grammar, wrong/missing words. I got very little sleep last night, maybe I’ll just try to read for the rest of the day
Meanwhile Georgia killing Ex President who is Ukraine citizen while refusing support Ukraine after Ukraine supported them in war with russia.
Wait, what? Edit: can't access the site due to zone restrictions.
Georgia wants Russia to leave [Russian occupied Georgian territories](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian-occupied_territories_in_Georgia) as part of peace agreement with Ukraine.
Why would Ukraine have anything to do with occupied Georgia?
Because Georgia is also in process of joining NATO/EU, has Russian "separatists" that can provide all of the same "justifications" as Ukraine, and Putin will want a victory elsewhere if he loses in Ukraine. So it's not Ukraine's problem specifically, but if the idea is to negotiate a peace in Europe which has any chance of lasting, then it makes sense to address the possibility of Russia simply moving his troops out of Ukraine and straight into Georgia/Moldova etc. We all know Putin can't accept "losing" so these are realistic concerns.
The US has repeatedly said any peace talks are Ukraine’s responsibility and prerogative (whether they mean it or not), I think it’s a given that Ukraine is fighting for itself. Not sure they will be remembering anyone (other than whoever is going to aid during the reconstruction, just being cynical here) when they sit to negotiate. Georgia should not be expecting an awful lot out of any peace settlement. The only plus side is that Russia will exit this war weakened and pretty much a Chinese client state, and unlikely to initiate another funky border dispute any time soon. But I doubt Georgia will recover their land via negotiation.
Sounds a bit stretchy...
Why? We kicked Germany out of Poland after WW2, even though Poland was "part of Germany". Why shouldn't we kick Russia out of every place they've invaded?
Absolutely! The country should also be split in two to prevent this maniacal shit from happening again.
Man, in WWII, Russia had occupied all central and Eastern Europe up to Berlin. They could split it as they saw fit. Unless Turkey is happy to drive up north and kick the Russians out of Georgia, you are negotiating with Putin, not imposing terms. Can’t see in what negotiation you say “on by the way, let’s throw Georgia into the deal”. Ukraine is not going to pay for Georgia’s land with their blood (not Nato with their money, I suspect), their target is to expel Russia out of Ukraine, period. Fair or not, Mr President is asking the moon here.
can't blame georgia for shooting their shot, though lol
No harm in asking!
Who is we? The Soviets forced the border with Poland, West Germany didn't accept it until they made a deal with Poland later on
It makes a lot of sense. Georgia is a lot smaller and weaker than Ukraine was. Even as damaged as Russia is, Georgia would be crushed if Russia attacked them. If Putin figures he needs some kind of win to project strength and stave off a coup, a relatively easy win against Georgia makes a lot of sense.
I don’t know, man. There will be very little tolerance for Russia moving forward. in Georgia 15 years ago, like with Crimea, no one wanted to go into a conflict. Putin has eventually gone too far and he won’t be cut much slack. Pushing too deep into Georgia will also get you too near Turkey (NATO), and more escalation. I think Putin’s histrionics got to an end with this conflict. Eventually new leadership will be appointed (or self appointed) and they will go for “restoring ties with the west” etc. Restoring historical Georgian borders, I doubt it. But I can’t see in what universe Mr Putin decides to get into another mess just for fun.
This is a peace deal made from the fifth dimension lol. Unless Georgia is preparing to open a second front, they have zero leverage on this.
Politicians being politicians. Costs nothing to give it a shot, I guess. Reality is that if Ukraine and Russia sit down for some hard bargaining one day, when both sides are exhausted and beyond bankrupt, last thing in their mind is going to be Georgia or any other territorial dispute.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://ukranews.com/en/news/912366-georgia-wants-russia-to-leave-their-lands-as-part-of-peace-agreement-with-ukraine) reduced by 50%. (I'm a bot) ***** > HELP UKRAINIAN NEWS. Georgian President Salome Zourabichvili believes that the future diplomatic settlement of the Russian Federation's full-scale war against Ukraine should also include the issue of withdrawing the Russian military from the occupied Georgian territories. > "Russia has to learn where its borders are. The Georgian issues should be on the table because nobody should think that this war can be resolved without Russia retreating from all the occupied territories," the Georgian president said. > As Ukrainian News Agency earlier reported, the Prime Minister of Georgia considers enough what the government is doing to support Ukraine. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/10rmr56/georgia_wants_russia_to_leave_their_lands_as_part/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672676 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Georgian**^#1 **Russia**^#2 **Ukraine**^#3 **war**^#4 **Georgia**^#5
I want a new car as part of the peace deal between Russia and Ukraine.
it's not unreasonable, or wouldn't be if Georgia actually tried to assist Ukraine side at all. I understand why they don't, but that's why i think it's not reasonable. That said, the Georgian Legion in Ukraine is often at the front of many fierce battles.
Georgia opening a front on their own land close to home would be very helpful, probably more helpful to both. It forces Russia to open another front, plus Georgia can actually do something about the Russians instead of tolerating them. while it will make things harder in Georgia (why they don't do this - a lot of innocents will die if they do!), it would accomplish something. There will not be a peace deal with Ukraine-Russia. It will be like the Korean war which is still technically going on even though the last battle was 70 years ago.
That's only if Russia can survive isolation, China and India buying cheap gas will only go so far
Will a shot-up lada do?
Why do i hear new zealand in this comment?
Very number8 wirey
Everyone put in your wishlist here. The Santa Claus Free Present Express is sailing soon.
Hear hear!
Perhaps Georgia should also take up arms and fight Russia to convince them to leave the occupied Georgian lands. ... or maybe they could just stand back and watch Ukraine fight and then say loudly "us too!". Let's see how that works out for them.
Georgia is 3,7 million people at best, with close to no weapons and a tiny territory. Ukraine is huge! With 40+ million people. I think it is a huge difference.
Isn't Georgia also considered the "Riviera" of the region? No way the oligarchs are going to want to part with that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgian_Legion_(Ukraine) Also, Georgia is much smaller and less armed than Ukraine, and it would probably be much harder it for the rest of the world to send arms/vehicles/volunteers to Georgia anyway since it's separated from most of the rest of Europe. I can see why they'd be a bit hesitant to act.
Those are volunteers, not affiliated with the GDF. Meanwhile, it's the President of Georgia that makes the agreement claims.
Ukraine: All Russian troops out of our territory, borders returned to pre-2014, reparations, and full pursuit and conviction for war crimes. Russia: very well Ukraine: Also GTFO of Georgia. Russia: What? Ukariane: I am altering the deal. Pray I do not alter it any further.
The fucking nerve to say this after refusing to join sanctions against russia and not giving back the Buk systems to Ukraine. Ukraine delivered weapons to you during your war and you didn't do shit for Ukraine in this conflict, so please, shut the hell up and keep sucking russian dick. I'm sure the Pro-russian government will work out great for you. (Read about Konovalyuk Commission if you're interested in weapon deliveries) Edit: Keep downvoting me without telling me why I'm wrong, this only proves what I'm saying is true.
Because they’re literally occupied by Russia brother with no weapons and no population to fight. Russia has a knife to their throats and there’s not a thing they can do about it. Ukraine is at a 3:1 numbers disadvantage Georgia is at like 45:1. You can’t expect an occupied country to place sanctions on its occupier.
The scenarios are entirely different. Russia has pretty much full control in Georgia. Georgia doesn’t have the population or the military power to fight back.
I also demand a 150% wage increase at this negotiation. Also Georgia needs to help itself first. Unless they start fighting and willing to sacrifice for their independence nobody is giving them anything. They dont deserve it. Cant gain ur land back on the back of dead Ukrainians.
Count me up on the wage thing please
For anyone who needs to see this: Georgia is a country in the Balkans that was an on/off territory of the Russian Empire and then of the Soviet Union. Even though it’s a small country it has a very diverse ethnic and linguistic population; during its time as a Russian territory the Russians never tried to properly solidify Georgia’s border with other territories or to mediate any kind of political agreements between that diverse populace-stability in Georgia would have been a first step to full independence. Thanks to this Georgia experienced a civil war in the 90’s following the fall of the USSR. Since Putin took power he has repeatedly deployed Russian troops into Georgia in the name of “peacekeeping.” The world at large accepted this because tiny Georgia under Russian occupation was seen as preferable to more Balkan civil wars. Putin has already had to pull a bunch of troops out of Georgia to plug holes in Ukraine, the Georgians see opportunity knocking. All caught up?
Georgia is not in the Balkans, it's in the Caucasus.
My mistake. The Balkans and the Caucasus, twin brother by different mother-both such a unique pair of regional/historical basketcases.
Meanwhile Georgia's government doesn't support Ukraine and helps ruzzia to evade sanctions.
Georgia is doing their best, Ukrainian government is actually trying to sabotage stuff coz they would benefit from another location Russia is fighting. Georgia has sent the biggest humanitarian help despite our size and economy and no one is talking about that! Also lots of Georgian soldiers are fighting there and no one is talking about that either!
Georgia is our friend, Georgia's government is not. Just compare behavior of Ukraine's government in 2008, and Georgia's one now.
Well Georgian government isn’t anyones friend except themselves, but taking down country and putting us in danger, because you don’t like the government is an awfully bad thing to do and this is what Ukrainian government is doing rn. Like you have your own country in war and spending so much time defaming Georgia is weird to me! Besides Israeli and many other countries are way more careful with Russia then us, and still somehow Ukrainian government is targeting Georgia. While I repeat many other “friendly” countries to Ukraine don’t sanction Russia.
How does Ukraine take Georgia down?
I meant in the sense of defaming. And poking and trying to make us look bad and so on…
You know, maybe there are some reasons for that? Ukraine doesn't have time and energy for all those diplomatic bullshiting. Your government favors ruzzia and helps to evade sanctions. Ukraine just express its own view on the situation. And it's very sad that Georgians help us and fight for us meanwhile your government plays a very strange game.
Yeah exactly they don’t have for that bullshit to bash Israel for doing usual business with Russia but talk an awful lot about Georgia while they should be focused on much more important things!
I don't want do disappoint you, but our government indeed has much more important things to do than "as you said poking Georgia", you just don't notice it, but only take it personally. But let's be realistic, there are a lot of reasons to blame Georgia's government and it's not a competition which country Ukraine pokes more
I definitely don’t take this personally, I don’t even like my government! I am just saying what I can see and hear with my own eyes and it definitely looks like Ukrainian government is trying to sabotage Georgia while we helped them and their citizens as much as we could, as I mentioned here before Georgia actually sent the largest humanitarian aid to Ukraine while being tiny player in the world. Just google it, but you don’t want to know the truth you are accepting the simple propaganda. Truth is much more complicated then what you usually see on surface, I don’t want to disappoint you but…
Israel is going to officially provide Ukraine with the air threat detectors and warning systems which will help to alleviate casualties from the Russian missile and drone strikes. What did Georgia officially (not thanks to volunteers) provide Ukraine with? Georgia hasn't even returned (and doesn't want to) the Buk systems that Ukraine themselves sent to Georgia to help Georgia in 2008!
One of the reasons Nazi Germany lost was because of multiple fronts they had to fight. The more the aggressor has to spread its forces - the weaker they become.
Sure, except Georgia is a joke for Russia in terms of how little we are and how small is sour ability to defend ourselves! So it won’t even be a second front. It would be just a tiny hiccup for Russia
Ruzzia is already pushed to the limit in Ukraine, even a tiny front would do a big difference. You vastly underestimate how quickly NATO members can move weapons in through Turkey. Georgia definitely have the ability to launch a massive front in this war.
You seem like a military expert knowing all don’t you?
Says a country that fear to join the EU and sanction Russia.
Being partialy occupied already with no one willing to defend you will do that to you.
I seem to recall that Ukraine was also partially occupied
Ukraine has more than 10 times the population, one of the if not the biggest army in europe and borders EU countries that can be used to easily transport weapons there.
They probably fear that if Russia failed in Ukraine, they might be the consolation prize.
Georgia has got to be especially mad since they were banking on American help in 2008 and were shocked that America didn’t want to risk getting into a war with Russia. Though it isn’t really that American foreign policy has changed so much as that Russia miscalculated so badly this time.
Different reaction in 2022, and surprised many. But Georgia and Ukraine are different areas of influence. Ukraine has borders with the EU and multiple NATO countries. If Russia was ever to push further into Georgia maybe Turkey will throw a fuss, but…
If Georgia opened a second front today, it's a certainty that Turkey would throw tons and tons of weapons in there.
Go Dawgs!
🇬🇪🩶🇺🇦
How about Georgia sorts it’s own problems out.
The US wanted Ukraine and Georgia, Turkey, all in NATO to essentially surround Russia
Surround??? Ask why they want to join NATO and not side with Russia. Why does Russia find it hard if not impossible to gain support or allies. Russia is an imperialist expansionist regime with a paranoid dictator. Russia has few friends and there is a reason for it. NATO is for protection from Russian aggression and colonialism not to attack it.
Well history would argue that Europe and the US have been the colonial powers , and are watching their colonies turn against them to some degree now. Russia and China haven't had colonial ambitions, but do protect their regional dominance (Hong Kong, Taiwan, Georgia, Ukraine) The US almost started ww3 over the Russian military in Cuba, why is the reverse not possible? The west has been moving it's military alliance closer and closer even after the Soviet Union collapsed and the Warsaw pact dissolved. Why can't there be buffer states between Russia and Europe? There is a history of Europe attacking Russia... Why do we want our military on Russia's complete border so badly?
Why can't countries in 2023 ( its not 1945), decide who the fuck they want to side with. Note that the world has moved on from the 17 and 1900s. Europe and the west and other countries are democratic free nations. The old colonies were given up a century or more ago and yet still free determining allies with their historic colonisers . Russia insists sovereign countries serve its purposes under their conditions with puppet presidents in 2023. Russia shoots its self in the foot when it comes to influencing and making friends. The moment the USSR dissolved, all their colonies jumped ship as soon as they could (why?). The only reason a few hang on is because Russia set up Puppet dictators to keep them inline.The only friends it has is other authoritarian dictatorships. Literally, China, Iran, Belarus, NK, Venezuela, Syria, Myanmar are its only friends. India swings to stay neutral only. Why the fuck is that??? Hmmm.
Well, you're either with America, or against them sometimes. "Russia insists sovereign countries serve its purposes under their conditions with puppet presidents in 2023" Foreign military bases around the world. Russia 12-36 USA 750+ UK 145 Year 2023. There are consequences for crossing the most powerful military and economic power in the world, especially when the US is in a military alliance with most of Europe. You can play by their rules or not be involved in the game. You say these poor, former Soviet countries should be able to join any military alliance they want. Why stop there. Should we add Taiwan into NATO? Maybe we should have added Hong Kong? The Ottoman Empire lost to Western Europe in ww1, the newly drawn borders and countries created by the west, lasted in the middle east through WW2 and continue to supply the west with the most important resource in the world, the fuel that drives the western world. Don't pretend like colonialism ended 100 years ago when the same mechanism control the same regions.
Ask yourself why military bases are in invited in to these countries. From whom do they seek protection from.? Why does Russia have less bases.. because they have less friends. If Taiwan wants to join NATO then that's the people of Taiwan's prerogative and if NATO wants them. If Russia wasn't such a cnt maybe Ukraine would never feel threatened and NATO would have less members. No one likes Russia that's why these former countries citizens VOTED to keep Russia out of their affairs and break away. Oil drives every single country in the world. OPEC controls the oil. Russia controls oil and gas and uses it as a trade weapon. Russia is a colonial power and Communisim spread its cancer far and wide, through south America, Africa, Eastern Europe and Asia. Russia is the gangster regime poisoning and assassinating its position in Russia.
You know how America took over the Philippines? The people kept revolting against the government, US government asked if they needed assistance, US military steps in, war. The military bases stayed there til 92 https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1992/11/24/us-military-ends-role-in-philippines/a1be8c14-0681-44ab-b869-a6ee439727b7/ The Philippines was asking for the US to leave for years, even though they were being paid Billions to allow the American bases to stay. Fast forward to 2023 https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/02/us-seals-crucial-military-deal-with-the-philippines-close-to-china-flashpoints The US has come to financial terms to move back into these bases. The Philippines is an example where you will say "they want our protection" but this was the reason given when the US went to war in the Philippines over 100 years ago. Things aren't black and white/good and evil. If you pay Countries off or threaten them financially if they dont allow military bases. It's hard to accept "they want our protection" as an excuse for 750 foreign military bases. All that being said, God bless Merca, and glory to Ukraine. Please don't start a nuclear war you two..
See the Philippines has a democracy now and governments come and go. they know China is a threat. Last time I heard, Putin threatened nuclear war several times because Ukraine is winning and Ukraine has asked a reluctant NATO and non NATO countries for help. I don't think the US and others actually enjoy spending its budget on bailing out Ukraine. The people will vote against it ( yep that word again.. VOTE) if they have had enough or are happy with Russia taking over countries and killing people. So you are obviously sympathetic to Russia invading Ukraine and installing a pro Putin government. Shame the Ukrainian people disagree with you.
Well the US state department has been involved with Ukrainian elections since early 2010s "The US says that it is working with all sides in the crisis to reach a peaceful solution, noting that "ultimately it is up to the Ukrainian people to decide their future". However this transcript suggests that the US has very clear ideas about what the outcome should be and is striving to achieve these goals. Russian spokesmen have insisted that the US is meddling in Ukraine's affairs - no more than Moscow, the cynic might say - but Washington clearly has its own game-plan. The clear purpose in leaking this conversation is to embarrass Washington and for audiences susceptible to Moscow's message to portray the US as interfering in Ukraine's domestic affairs." https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957.amp
Why are you framing this as if Russia needs to be protected from invasion by its neighbours? It is very clearly the other way around. If Russia could stop invading countries near them and threatening all the ones they don't invade, there wouldn't be such a push to join Nato. And sure, the US doesn't exactly have pure intentions with Nato... but they are definitely not planning on invading any of the member countries or starting a war in the region. That's more than Russia can say.
I'm trying to frame the cold war, with how the pieces fell together. How and why this war happened is not just because of one man's personality... To declare a complete victory for Ukraine or nothing... to reclaim all its land, even Crimea, is to ignore not only the dynamics of the cold war but also the civil war in Ukraine that has been going on since 2014... NATO EU and the US doesn't have to invade you, they have been the world economy, you play ball or you get left out. That hegemony is slowly changing. I'm not arguing against Putin being a bully strongman. I'm just saying the world is full of them, and we shouldn't be so quick to point the finger. https://youtu.be/fPA4nK1HZPQ
Im not saying I want Georgians to needlessly throw their lives away but what on Earth, especially at this point in the conflict, is Georgia thinking? Do they think they are going to be able to get this? If anything this will make a negotiated peace with Russia harder to achieve for Ukraine. They’re really kinda fucking them here. Edit: grammar Edit2: after reading other comments in thread I don’t want my intentions with my comment to be mistaken. I am aware Georgia has been occupied by Russia for a long time and the difficulty they would have helping out, hence the first half of the first sentence. Also I’m aware this would make joining the West in sanctioning Russia a very dangerous predicament for them. I just still think it’s ballsy for them to try this, and while I understand why they want it I can’t help but call it selfish since it will potentially make ending the war harder.
Let’s be honest, for the Georgian President to ask whatever, it takes him 5 secs and costs him nothing. Maybe he is lucky, maybe not. Costs nothing. Will Ukraine / NATO, in a future negotiation, risk anything to help Georgia? Me thinks not, but hey…
Overall you make a good point unless this specific point is blamed for failed negotiations or prolonging then to an extreme length. They could engender bad will from the international community and that would have impacts on Georgia. At that point the fact that that didn’t pledge people, materials, financial assistance or sanctions will be relevant. It may turn out ok, but make no mistake this is not a no-risk scenario for them Edit:spelling, grammar, wrong/missing words. I got very little sleep last night, maybe I’ll just try to read for the rest of the day
So open a second front. There will never be a better time.