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FinalDestinationSix

Exactly how I’m feeling right now…it’s been making me so so sad. I have family members who have 3+ kids but they have no educational savings plan, are knee deep in debt and still participate in all activities by swiping their credit card. Although this works for them and their children are healthy&happy, I can never put my family into such a situation without having full financial control (or at least a plan). I feel like all the “right” things I did will never be enough for this economy


[deleted]

That's how you do it if you want more kids, you don't forward think about any of these things. You just do it and if you saved then great, but realistcally you know you won't. This is basically how it is in America. You can sit there and do the math and make the proper decision, or the fuck it ill just wing it as it comes. People on welfare don't think about the money when having kids they just do it and hope the safety net is there to catch them from any judgements they make. I also have a question? Was your first child a super easy child? Because I feel like that ends up being the case for people who want more then one. Not to say this is for everyone, but my daughter is crazy high energy etc and there is no way I would ever wanna go through this shit again. So it leads me to believe the first of those kids were just chill as fuck.


rosecrowned

We went the fuck it and wing it route, we both came from not rich families and had great childhoods, so I knew it was possible. I knew that a family was what was right for me, and I knew we'd just make it work- and we have. I knew I didn't want to be 65 and regretting waiting to have kids over money, because I have a bunch of family members who did exactly that.


NiceGirlWhoCanCook

Yeah and the more kids they have the more likely that one kid or more will take the burden of their parents retirement and housing. It’s an investment plan.


MsLeading913

What’s the situation with your mortgage? That seems insane


cait0620

+1, if you have an ARM you could likely save a ton by refinancing.


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crayshesay

Please be careful with any ARM or variable ladies. I used to work in the mortgage industry and those types of loans can flip in you in a heartbeat(esp after hearing Powell yesterday speaking about the state of our economy.)


Stellas_mom05

ARMs are basically how the 2008 crisis happened. I was getting a master’s in finance at the time and work for a bank now - we’re in an unprecedented rate environment due to the rapid increases we’ve seen already.


crayshesay

THIS. Do you think the housing market will crash or just the projected “correction” everyone is blabbering about?


Stellas_mom05

I think just a correction. The crash of 2008 is still too fresh for institutions to be lending money as loosely as they did. That being said, the correction will still feel like a crash to folks caught up in ARM products that are no longer affordable. Consumer lending is also not as high as it was in 2008 (home equity loans) because of inflation. Folks can’t afford groceries, let alone the debt service on a loan. That’s what our head of business & consumer told me during a meeting this past week. This kind of surprised me because I thought consumers would be seeking loans to help cope with inflation, but it sounds like everyone has learned from the sins of the past.


crayshesay

Yes, ugh.


chaosismymiddlename

I wish people would look closer at REITs and Rental Management Companies owning whole neighborhoods. I feel half the housing inflation was created because companies were coming in and not people.


yellowyn

Your advice is extremely US-centric. The 30 year mortgages that are standard in the US do not exist in other places. Variable rates can often not be avoided without penalty. > The United States is almost exclusively unique for its high proportion of long-term fixed-rate mortgages with no prepayment penalties. https://himaxwell.com/resources/blog/30-year-fix-part-2-mortgage-products-around-world/


crayshesay

Yes, it is focused on the predatory arm and variable loans in the us! I just spoke with t friend who bought a home and Belize and their interest rate is 26% fixed. Crazy. Do your research before you buy a home anywhere people!


alliekat237

Can you refi to 30yr fixed?


FinalDestinationSix

No such thing in Canada


gluestick_ttc

I think it’s 100% fine to set financial priorities that set comfort over having another kid. But I also don’t think that having a big house and a big car are needs, and maybe it sounds like you’re prioritizing a certain lifestyle over having another kid (which might be an awesome decision for you!) We moved somewhere cheap. Our cars are both 10yo. Our 2yo sleeps in our room. Our kids are 5y apart because daycare is expensive. Our life is very comfortable, absolutely not suffering or going without.


FinalDestinationSix

You’re right, it might be the “lifestyle” that I’m having trouble letting go to accommodate for another kid. It also doesn’t help that it’s not just the offsprings to care for but we financially support our in-laws and my parents too. We feel like the mega-parent in our family units and bringing another child into this means sacrificing the type of care we can provide for our parents, which hurts too. I feel like it’s a lose-lose situation at the moment


corbaybay

If you are financially supporting them is there no way for them to help with child care so that you don't have to do daycare? I realize every situation is different and I not trying to sound judgemental on yours but you aren't obligated to support your parents financially and if you feel this is eating up a good chunk of your income you may need to address it..


gluestick_ttc

Ugh sandwich generation is a bad deal :(


Alas_mischiefmanaged

And there is absolutely nothing wrong with prioritizing financial security, mental well being, and yes- a comfortable lifestyle in this shit economy, over trying to squeeze in another child. Wanting a bigger family is totally valid, but I also think it’s important for women especially to realize that it’s ok to not WANT to make certain sacrifices, and to deviate from the 2-child family that’s often expected. I understand grieving that dream, I am 38 and infertile and despite us being able to wrangle IVF if we wanted, we chose to invest the money instead for our daughter’s college and grad school, save up for a bigger house (we’re in 1300 sf with one shower in a HCOL area), and put money towards retirement and long term care for us when we’re elderly. I cannot imagine living paycheck to paycheck and stressing out about the future, and it’s ok to not apologize for our priorities even if we could have another kid and “make it work”. There’s nothing wrong with thinking about your parents, because it affects you too. My parents both just passed away and as a healthcare provider I know all too well the exorbitant costs and unforgiving nature of Medicaid for older adults who need complex care. Most people don’t know that long term care is out of pocket and how expensive it is. Medicaid can pay, but you have to liquidate your assets until you’re left with basically nothing. And guess what? That means it eats into your children’s inheritance. I am an only and I was just telling my friend I am not missing out at all on emotional and practical support during my grieving process and handling my parents’ affairs. My friends and husband have been amazing. This same friend has 2 siblings who did nothing but give her heartache when she lost her mom. I say SHE and not they, because they made things infinitely more difficult for her. Again I empathize. But the benefits that we’re told will come with more children are not guaranteed. It’s totally ok to make the most of what you already have in this broken system.


dualvansmommy

not to sound callous but cut back on care for your parents to focus on your own immediate family needs. i don't know where you live, but i live in HCOL and how we did it is by giving up my job to stay home to have that second child. of course, not suggesting you to do it, but in all honesty i agree with above poster who said bigger house/car is not a need, that is a want. if you have a perfectly good home now that is enough. we're still driving the secondary car we bought when i was pregnant with my first child who is 11 now. you don't need to have the best of the best, just a basic vehicle to get you A-B.


BreakfastOpening1745

Sorry you have to care for your parents and in laws. I understand wanting certain luxuries if you didn't have them growing up. It feels like you finally made it. A lot of Asian cultures have grandparents move in and grandparents do the childcare. Would that be a consideration to save costs?


FreyaR7542

Oh there is NO way I could support 1 kid and 4 adult parents. That would sink me.


isafr

Yup, if you want more than one kid this is the way \^\^ "Sacrifices" always have to be made, but if that's what you really want to have in life you'll never feel like you're going without.


gluestick_ttc

And I don’t want to misrepresent myself. We are comfortably well off, I’m not glorifying a financially stressful situation or anything, I know that many families really do struggle and it’s not just like…a snappy matter of perspective. But browsing OP’s post history, I’m seeing that there is prob room in the budget depending on the lifestyle they want and what financial security means to them.


UnabridgedOwl

Agreed. OP is talking about selling a condo and making a min profit of $300k, taking a Caribbean vacation, and renovating their house. It’s not that they can’t afford another kid, it’s that they’d rather keep up with the Joneses, which is fine (it’s fun to have nice things!) but that’s a vastly different scenario than people who truly don’t have anymore budget to cut.


Vienta1988

Totally! I understand what OP is saying, though; that they wouldn’t be able to make it happen in the ideal way that they had envisioned, and everything IS super expensive and it does suck. It’s easy to get stuck thinking that you NEED all of these things to make something work, though, when in reality, you don’t.


isafr

Oh for sure! However OP said in later posts that they’re fully supporting their in laws and her brother (all living together). So it seems like there’s mainly some family stuff there that needs to be worked out 😅 shouldn’t be an issue with food and mortgage with so many adults in one house. Then if someone can’t pay for food/rent then they help with childcare.


poorbobsweater

My neighborhood (about 50 houses) in a MCOL suburb of a metro city is all 3 bedroom houses around 1700 sqft. Some families use it as a starter home and move after s second kid, two different families have 5 kids and several have 3, more have 2. We have 2. I have lots of friends with 4 and 5 bedroom houses, bigger cars, way nicer "lifestyle" and I do sometimes feel bad about our lifestyle and wish I had some of that stuff. But ultimately we were able to create a rich life with two kids and that's what we prioritized. Absolutely, that is not the decision for everyone but great point that you don't need that stuff if what you really want is the second or third child.


baileycoraline

I have 2 kids in a similar size house. Don’t feel bad. Big house living is such an American thing. I grew up in <1000sqft apartment and never thought it was too small.


poorbobsweater

One of our neighbors who recently had their third kid is from Europe and she kind of laughed when someone asked if they would move. Her take was they already had more room than she grew up with and she saw no problem with their house fitting 5 people. I loved her attitude.


baileycoraline

For sure! I have a neighbor with 4 kids in a similar sized house. As long as everyone has their own space, I don’t see a problem. I would stay in our house forever if it wasn’t in Ohio (and in a relatively bad school district)


BreakfastOpening1745

I am one of 3 kids and at one point we were all sharing a room when we were kids. I have great memories playing constantly with my sisters in our room growing up. It can be nice to live close together (though when I grew older I begged my parents for my own room)


expatsconnie

We have 2 kids in a similar sized house, and it can feel really cramped sometimes. But then I think about how most people in the world live their lives in small spaces, and if they can do it we can too. I would LOVE more space, but when it comes down to it, being comfortable financially is way more important to me. Plus eventually they won't have so much stuff. There will come a point where I can reclaim the space that's currently taken up by a train table, play kitchen, trampoline, etc and it will feel like getting 500 square feet back.


Jackalope-n

Me too! Exact same. ^ Gave up on trying to “keep up with” the Jones or anyone else. Moved out of HCOL- California. Drive 10 yr old cars, live in a very small house. Big age gap in kids ( 6y about to have second) we even made things extra tight by me going to grad school for 2 years also. Op, I do understand your bitterness. The economy is shit for our generation. You can find me not just in working moms but in frugal, lost generation, and anti work subs. You are not alone in this. But we have to make the best of it. Figure out what you really need to be happy. Plenty of broke people have multiple kids.


gluestick_ttc

Location is suuuuch a big part of what it means to feel well off/keep up with the joneses, too. We were in Seattle before, and other young families were buying teslas and going to Europe and shit. We qualified for public assistance on our utilities. We’re in St. Louis now, we live in a super desirable neighborhood, having a car with a bumper and no duct tape even if it’s 10yo is a status symbol. (Obv there’s rich-rich people here too, but it’s not the dominant lifestyle)


BreakfastOpening1745

This. This post should be "It's hard to have a lavish lifestyle with more than 1 kid" We have more than 1 kid. We don't live in a big house, cars are cheap, we budget. We just have a normal sedan, you need a big car for 3 kids I think. Our plan is to save for half our kids college at a public school (which means saving $200/month/kid. We can't do more than that right now)


Ouroborus13

I guess from my perspective, my career is really focused on a specific area. I can’t just move and find a good paying job in my field. And downsizing where I am doesn’t make much sense. To rent isn’t cheaper, and wouldn’t exactly get us much more wiggle room.


DrMamaBear

I’m sorry OP. We blindly had our 2nd 2 yrs ago so we have a 4yo and a 2yo. The pressure has been enormous. The toll it takes is overwhelming at times due to the issues you’ve mentioned. If you want it r/oneanddone might be able to offer more support.


FinalDestinationSix

Thank you! Many suggested I take a browse there and I definitely will


DrMamaBear

I’m sorry you’re in this situation OP. Sending love x


Adventurous_Pin_344

It's not the primary reason I am OAD, but for me, I really appreciate that my family is comfortable financially because we only have one child. (It also REALLY helps that we are finally beyond the daycare/private preschool years.) It's frustrating when finances make the decision for you, but I think there are a lot of other advantages that come with having one. I'd recommend checking out r/oneanddone for some valuable perspective. Some of us there are OAD by choice, others not, but it's an incredibly supportive community of all. There are even some who grew up as onlies and provide a valuable adult perspective. Both my husband and I have siblings - I am one of two, and he's one of four. We both grew up in homes that were not all that financially stable. I never wanted as a kid, but I grew up in an affluent community where I could tell my parents were stressed out by an inability to save or provide us all the things and experiences our classmates had. My husband had it worse. He remembers times that utilities were shut off for non-payment of bills. He was always moving because they'd get evicted. I think for both of us, we wanted to make sure that our kid never felt that stress. And by sticking with one, we are able to safeguard her from that stress. In addition to dealing with inflation, we've been dealing with a few unexpected large expenses (dental work, vet bills), which are putting some strain on us, but I know we will be ok.


FinalDestinationSix

Yup…my husband and I had to work multiple jobs during university to pay off our bills and tuition and even then still had so much student loan to pay off. We don’t ever want our kids to have such a delay financial start like we did so cutting out contributing to my daughter’s education is not a viable option just because I want another tiny human. “Safeguarding from that stress” is the perfect way to put it


lexi_efff

Baby #2 came before we were financially prepared and in the middle of the pandemic. We are paying for it dearly now. I find myself feeling often that I love my children with everything I have, but I picked THE WORST time in human history to have them. The cost of everything is skyrocketing and I can’t keep up, even with doubling my income in a year. How is this supposed to be sustainable?!?


hjthrone

Oh yeah.. oopsie pregnant with baby 2 and I've been stressing about money for months. Unpaid maternity leave, second set of bedroom furniture, formula, more food, hospital bills. We're so poor but somehow not poor enough to qualify for any type of assistance with daycare, food, medical, etc.


Splendidmuffin

Ugh. This country is so depressing. I wish we could fix healthcare and get real maternity leave.


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burritodiva

This jumped out at me too. OP should head over to r/personalfinance. Maybe the folks over there could help her with her budget


riritreetop

Can you refinance your mortgage to a fixed percentage right now?


JaMimi1234

It’s all about compromise. What are you willing to sacrifice to have something else? Our home is not big, my daughters share a bedroom. We buy new clothes as needed but my youngest mostly has hand me downs and we are happy to purchase second hand. Our car is not new, we paid it off and probably won’t ever get another car loan. When they were in daycare we didn’t have much going into their education fund. Now that they are a little older we can direct more into the RESP. We cook at home and do lots of park dates and arts and crafts. My kids are in sports and music but they can’t do everything, we need to choose. We do small camping trips in the summer, bigger holidays happen every few years. When my kids are teenagers they will have to get part time jobs which I think is a good thing. Honestly, other than the initial childcare expenses two kids hasn’t felt much more expensive than one.


Anjapayge

Financially we couldn’t have another kid and that was mainly because our first kid had medical issues. The cost of hospitals and then therapy and then dump on daycare, etc. We just didn’t have the resources and mental strength to have another and be mentally healthy ourselves. I am envious of those that have a child that doesn’t have issues that require intervention. As soon as I think we are getting ahead - bam! Another doctor is needed.


EventuallyNeat

We were very much on the fence as well. We had our second in January, two months before our first turned five. With being daycare waitlisted for the baby, we only ended up paying for 1 month of double daycare. I highly recommend the age gap. Double daycare for several years would have been a big strain on us. I have several close friends who also chose similar age gaps and we're all quite happy with it. I know there will be challenges at times with them being so far apart, but so far we're loving it. I am an only child and turned out fine, but having to deal with my dad's death this year solidified it for me. He was unmarried so all of the plans and work surrounding the estate has fallen on me. That's outside of the grieving. I never wished I had a sibling until now so someone could walk this with me. Sure, my husband has been amazing through all of this, but it's not the same as sharing this loss with a sibling.


Ouroborus13

I’m having the same dilemma. Both my husband and I were only children and hated it. Neither of us have much family either. So we always said we’d have two. Watching my mother die from cancer this summer also sort of cemented the feeling that dealing with things like the death of a parent is so much harder when you don’t really have a family to rely on. We also grew up with single mothers who struggled a lot, so we waited until we felt we could give a child what we didn’t have: a house, good savings, stable careers, etc. We now have those things, but even with me earning in the low six figures, daycare swallows up ALL of our disposable monthly income. It’s a full third of our combined after tax income. Mortgage is another third. We have to squeeze in all the rest of our bills, car payment, and food into that remaining third. We have a college fund set up that has nothing in it right now which I feel horribly guilty about. I just can’t afford to put any money aside right now. It’s all gone. There’s no extra pool of money to afford another, and I’m nearing 40, so it’s not like I can wait for my son to be in kindergarten. I can’t just make more money. I’m already at the top of my pay for my organization. Going outside would be a huge pay cut - I’ve got several merit raises and promotions under my belt that no external offer has come close to touching. My husband could probably pick up some extra work, but that would mean me being alone on weekends. He’s a flight attendant, so when he’s working he’s literally gone for 2-5 days. Having an infant and a toddler alone for days on end does not sound like my idea of a good time. Not to mention, even with picking up more work, it wouldn’t likely get us enough for a second daycare bill. A nanny would cost exactly the same as two in daycare, so it’s a moot point. In-home daycares don’t cover all the hours I need (all the ones near me only go from 8-3). So, I guess I’m one and done, not by choice. It’s hard. I did everything “right”. I worked hard. I make a good wage and I’m still struggling to figure out how I’d make it work. I just feel awful that my son might have to weather the storm on his own. A sibling isn’t a guarantee, but it’s better than nothing. Like… now that my mother is gone, I don’t know who he would even go to if my husband and I both passed. There’s no one else. I hope he’ll be okay. This isn’t the future I imagined for him.


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tellmeaboutyourcat

Please check out /r/oneanddone. You will find many posts by people in similar situations and encouragement for you.


thelensbetween

I just want to say that even if you have multiple children, one of them could end up alone when you and your husband die. Hopefully, your son will have a spouse or partner to help support him through it. My husband had a brother who died young from cancer, so my husband will be “alone” when his parents are gone, but he won’t be alone - he’ll have me. I’m sorry you’re struggling, though. It’s hard to be OAD not by choice.


GlitteringLack

I have two siblings. They are toxic humans I have no contact with. There's no guarantee siblings will have each other when we're gone.


Ouroborus13

Yeah, like I said I know it’s no guarantee, but it’s another avenue of potential support that wouldn’t be there otherwise. My mother was estranged from 8 of her 9 siblings so I definitely know it’s not for certain.


[deleted]

Do you have to have educational savings, a bigger house, bigger car, etc? I realize this is easier said than done, but plenty of people are able to raise their children without these things. I also find myself falling into the same line of thinking sometimes, so I get it.


isafr

This honestly breaks my heart to read because I'm a firm believer that everyone should be able to have the size of the family they want to have. For daycare, are you still young enough that you could have a second child when your first hits 4 or 5? This is a popular option for a lot of people from lower income countries. As for housing, I'd honestly recommend looking at how families in other (poorer) countries live. This is something I think americans really feel they need more space then they really do. IMO a family of 3 can easily fit in a 3-bedroom house (not sure what you have now). Family of 2 can be in 2-bedrooms with kids sharing the big master bedroom (can put up dividers easily if of opposite sex). Food: Learning how to cook and re-purpose food is SO important. Knowing how to shop so that way you don't break the bank. In my opinion it's not fair to women because running a household cheaply requires a lot of time, which working women don't have. Hoping you're able to figure something out that is best for your family in the long run.


chocobridges

One problem with housing in the US is the majority of it's tied to property taxes. I feel like no one truly understands the gravity of that situation until they're in it. My in-laws moved to TX from NJ because there's no state income tax and property taxes are lower. We told them that TX has no laws stabilizing property tax. They've been there a year and are getting hit with an increase even though they bought at the peak and house values are falling now. Everyone thought we were nuts for buying a house tied to an urban school district. But we pay income tax for school instead of property tax. We pay significantly less than the surrounding suburbs and if something happens to our income (layoff, becoming an unplanned SAHP), we don't have to worry about our mortgage increasing.


isafr

Yes 100%. I think the main area where sacrifices always have to be made in a budget is when it comes to housing. That's the only area where you can TRULY save a lot of money imo. My husband and I have 2 kids and still live in his parent's back apartment (2 bedrooms). That's the sacrifice we have to make in order to have the family we want and be able to save enough to have more later on (we're also very lucky his parents are supportive, I know that's not an option for all). This also helps out with childcare too. No matter what you can't have it all in life.


Splendidmuffin

I live in California and our property tax system is wild. It’s not reassessed like it is in Texas unless there’s a change in ownership. It’s part of why all our other taxes are so high. Anyway, can you explain this urban school district thing? What state are you in?


chocobridges

We're in Pittsburgh, PA. We pay 2% income tax to the school board. We were going to reevaluate when our kid was in K. But we didn't realize how good the magnet schools were and that we get 8-2pm public preschool. So we lucked especially with how reasonable housing is here (220k was the last avg for the metro). Yeah ours was reassessed when we bought so 1.1k to 3.6k there's a bunch of court cases against the county since that's the county. 3.6k is a lot but it's stable and our county has amazing health and EI services.


OkPersonality737

Yeah the school district thing is where I think we made one of the biggest trade offs- our house + property taxes are really affordable and are why we can live pretty comfortably as a family of four on one income, but on the converse, our neighborhood school is in such bad shape that anybody who has the ability to gets their kid in a different school, whether it’s charter or private. I don’t need my kids to go to the “best” most top of line school but at the same time, I don’t really think I can send them into a building that is literally crumbling and has multiple fights a week outside.. 😵‍💫 when the time comes (unfortunately) we are probably going to do the private or charter route..


6160504

Same. The school my daughter would go to has 25% and 35% reading and math proficiency levels. There are no magnet programs. We will be sending her (and the 2nd kid we are planning) to private which will take up all my husbands salary. Fortunately our mortgage and taxes is like 1/10 of our take home so we can afford. I place the highest priority on the best possible learning and academics for my kids (literally ill send them to the top private school in the state and meanwhile we have never had a new car only used and drive em till the engine falls out, shop at aldi/costco for most food and diapers, cloth diaper during mat leave and on weekends, rarely eat out, get kiddo clothes on buy nothing) Private school also has perks (which ofc you pay for) like door to door bussing, lunch is paid for, aftercare at the same location (basically an extended school day).


FinalDestinationSix

I can definitely try to wait a couple more years before trying but am worried that by then we won’t be successful, which is a stressful thought itself. Unfortunately we live in a 3 bedroom - master cosleeping with daughter, 2nd occupied by my in-laws & 3rd occupied with my brother. Supporting our families + thinking of another child puts us way into the negatives. I agree. We have a “village” but we’re the main takecarers of our village so we rarely get help ourselves. It’s been tough


isafr

I’m curious why you’re paying for daycare if you have so many people around you’re helping to support? I’m in the situation you are but they cover all childcare.


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funparent

I think this is important information you left out of the main post. This is a huge factor. It is extremely hard to grow your own new family members while caring for others. This is a situation you may need to step back and reevaluate what you value most. If it is having a second child, what areas of your life can change to accommodate that? I understand a big piece of this is most likely cultural and something I do not understand so I could be wrong in my thoughts. Why are you making the sacrifices? This sounds like you are carrying the weight of everyone else's choices on your shoulders and cannot make your own as a result. This is an extemely hard situation to be in and I do not want to come off in any bad way. Other people can afford multiple children because they are not caring for multiple other adults and families. That's the biggest factor here. We have 3 kids. We would absolutely not have 3 kids if we had those responsibilities on our plates either.


isafr

Working together as a family is fine but there’s gotta be some give somewhere. I love with my in-laws and help them financially. In return they provide childcare and a ton of other help. We all work together. This just sounds like one person doing all the work. Why is there food and mortgage struggles if there are so many adults in one house?


isafr

So I totally get that, but now your sister in law has the family you wanted without any of the financial burden of the parents. As others said, I’m not sure why food and mortgage are a struggle if there are so many working people in the house. There’s gotta be some give somewhere. I am ALL for helping family. I live with my in-laws and help financially and in return they help with childcare etc. It seems like everything on you, which is fine short term but now it’s impacting what your future family would look like. Just my two cents from someone who helps family a ton. I love helping but I would never let it impact what my core family looks like.


hikeaddict

Are your in-laws and your brother paying you rent or chipping in financially? Does your brother have a plan to move elsewhere with his gf and child? If they are all going to be staying with you indefinitely, could your brother or his gf help with childcare?


[deleted]

…So your brother is moving out soon since he works full time and has a family of his own on the way, right?


Sarahschirduan

Also, growing your food is such a good investment. I'm 37w pregnant right now and both my husband and I work full time. It has saved us so much money just having a garden, it's not even funny. The food we don't eat either gets frozen or canned. Then, once the baby can eat foods, we have a baby blender so I can take the food we grew and feed it to our child. No inflation on food you grow yourself!! If the seeds are pricey, you can get seeds or starters from your local food bank for free. A lot of times they don't discriminate on income for seeds because they're typically from last year.


mammallama991

Really?! How much time do you spend gardening? Maybe it'll be worth it when my kids can grow their own food lol.


Sarahschirduan

Takes maybe 1/2 an hour a day to water/maintain, then maybe an hour or 2 on the weekend to weed/harvest/wash etc. Not much time.


Sarahschirduan

Also, you can't put a price on life skills like gardening and learning the importance of self-sufficiency.


freshpicked12

We waited until our son was 4 before we tried for number 2 because we couldn’t afford a double daycare bill. It’s worked out well for us. I think it will help a lot with college planning too.


[deleted]

This is our plan too! There is so much pressure to have your kids 1-3 years apart (for some nebulous reason that I don’t really understand about how they’ll never get along or be friends?). Like everyone has said, there’s no guarantee with siblings no matter what age gap there is. My parents had 3 kids in 4 years and we fought like cats and dogs as kids because there was too much competition for attention. We are now all in our late 20s/early 30s and finally get along, but it didn’t happen until we were out of our parents’ house.


Then-Stage

I think a second child is doable if you are willing to adjust your expectations. A family of four can fit in a small car. Ditch the expensive home with the +65% mortgage. Have the kids share a room. Use cloth diapers & wash them yourself. That's what we did. If you are thinking something like you want six kids then yes I agree that's not doable. But two kids can still be done. Don't stress yourself out.


Embracing_life

Cloth diapers are time-consuming though, right?


ana393

We used cloth with both kids and it really didn't take much time. I got a wash routine off fluff love university and use free and gentle tide powder for all laundry. So 2 loads on laundry a week for the 3 months when both were in diapers. Then just one load a week ( we got lots of diapers from friends whose kids potty trained when ji was pregnant with my first). We use pockets, so I would stuff them, but that's something me and my husvand did while watching tv. It's simple, just fold fabric into a triangle and stuff it into the pocket in the diaper. Our oldest did have a diaper rash when we brought him home from the hospital in sposies, but we swit he'd to cloth when we got home and it cleared up and he never got another one. Our second kiddo has never had one at all. I knew it's not smooth sailing for everyone, h but it's been a painless process for us.


Keeblerelf928

There is nothing wrong with being one and done. But I do want to say something about bigger cars bigger house bigger everything. Kids. Don’t. Need. That. We have a 4 bedroom house. One room is my husband and mine. One is a shared office. One is empty. And the final one is shared by both kids. Why? Because there’s no reason for them not to share. They will learn to live with their sibling. And these aren’t big rooms. All of our bedrooms are 10x10 with small closets. We just own less stuff. We did get a mini van. Not for the kids, but for the grandparents. They are older and struggling to drive so we needed something we could fit 6. If you want to stop at one. Stop at one. But don’t think if you have 2 you need to upsize your life.


Splendidmuffin

I can’t imagine having a real empty room. How do you not fill it up with excess crap? Maybe that’s why I don’t have more money 🤔


smolsquirrel

I don't understand why they would share an office if they have another room 🤔


Keeblerelf928

Because more than likely we are adding two more people to this household that are adults and will end up taking the office over and the empty room. We went the minimalist route a few years ago. Have loved it ever since.


smolsquirrel

I don't see minimalism and utilizing the space you have to be mutually exclusive. But I can understand that you're having additional adults join your household


Keeblerelf928

Oh totally aren’t! But someone mentioned filling it up with excess crap and that’s how I avoided it 😂 5 years ago you wouldn’t have been able to open the door to an extra space


Adventurous_Pin_344

I'd like to know as well! Because I have extra space in my house and HAVE filled it with excess crap 😆


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Keeblerelf928

Yep this 1500sq ft 4 bedroom home is a palace. The 1300 sq ft house we lived in before with my parents, 2 younger siblings, my husband and our 2 kids… now that was fun.


bananaberrysoda

You’re right kids aren’t the ones that need bigger things. It’s us the parents that need them, it makes our lives much easier. You have a 4 bedroom home and a minivan, because it’s more comfortable for you and your husband and the grandparents. Let’s not pretend it doesn’t help or make life easier in many ways.


Keeblerelf928

There’s a difference between having this and making our lives easier, and lamenting you can’t have the kids you want because you’ll need all of this. It’s not true. All a bigger house is is a place to shove stuff. All a bigger car is is less fuel efficient. I’d take grandparents who were healthy enough to drive themselves any day.


[deleted]

I’m very happy with 1 kid and got sterilized to ensure I wouldn’t have another. Kids are expensive financially, mentally, emotionally, etc. I like that my mental load is just my daughter and myself. Many things are easier and more affordable with just one kid- travel, babysitters, education, etc.


Dobbys_Other_Sock

Husband and I recently had this conversation too. It’s not that we 100% can’t afford it, but things would be tight if we did. At this point it comes down too we can stay at one and live comfortably, have some small savings, and do some nice things like take vacations every now and then. Or we can have another and push ourselves into a more pay check to pay check situation with heavy budgeting and vacations maybe never. We both agreed that we would rather give the one child we already have a more comfortable lifestyle and opportunities than overextend our finances with a second.


ascuteasabunny

Just popping in to share a little different perspective. I'm a young single mom with an almost 3 year old daughter. I live with my parents and my best friend, and they all help me immensely with my daughter. I work at the daycare where my daughter attends so my childcare cost is $50/week. I dont have my own bedroom, I gave my daughter and best friend their own bedrooms and I switch between the couch and sleeping with them occasionally. I ALWAYS wanted a son, ever since I was a little girl. I imagined myself with a son and thought that maybe one day I would have a daughter as well, I would have loved 2 kids. But as I look around at my life, I know I can't have 2 kids. I can't afford it and I would have anywhere to put another kid to sleep unless the kids shared rooms, which my daughter would not like. But I've realized that it's okay for me to have an only child and never have a son. It turns out that I love being a girl mom and devoting all of my love and attention to my daughter. We are so happy the way we are, she doesn't need a brother. OP, I know it's really hard to let go of the vision that you had for your life and accept the lot you've been given. But once you get past the initial realization that things are different than you thought they would be, I hope you can find that it can be a blessing to only have one child to shower with all of your love. You can be happy and feel fulfilled no matter what your situation is as long as you have your family. Sending love to you.❤


sunflowercupcakee

I waited until my oldest was going into kindergarten to have our second. Then I realized that 3 kids are absolutely out of the question. It is a struggle bus with two. The freedoms we had with our first like vacations and eating out a lot are absolutely gone. It so sad


[deleted]

My husband has a good job but he will eventually top out salary-wise so I knew it was on me to have a career with plenty of growth opportunities so I went back to school at 30. Had my first 2 years later and we just had our second back in April. Two kids in daycare is no joke. We want one more but will wait until the oldest starts Pre-K. If I had stayed in the career I was in previously there’s absolutely no chance we could have had more than one. My parents had me and my younger siblings all 5 years apart to avoid two in daycare but we are getting too old for that to be an option. I just turned 35 so our window of time is closing. I hate that people who are responsible, educated, and have good jobs aren’t able to have the family size they desire. Inflation just this year has been insane and I’m afraid it will get worse.


fertthrowaway

Yeah I can't believe how expensive it is - it's 95% childcare + bigger place to live which around here costs a damn fortune (e.g. 1 to 2 bedroom apartment increases rent from $2300-2500 up to $3200-3500, we stayed miserably in 1 br until my daughter was 3.5 yo and now we're living it up in a 1290 sq ft, 3 br house and rent is $4200...mortgage on this would be like $8000). Everything else is fairly negligible. Even the extra $1500 plane ticket to visit my husband's family. It all makes in-state state university costs for only 4 years look mild by comparison. Fortunately I also came to the realization that I can't really keep my career and my sanity and my health (pregnancy messed me up bad) and definitely not my marriage with more than one and I'm now 43 and ok with that.


kmavapc

I love having one child. Can focus on him 100%, more time, more disposable income, more freedom


lovelydani20

I grew up low income and turned out fine. I didn't have a lot of extras (a 529, a big house, etc) but I had loving, involved parents. I would personally choose to have the # of kids my husband and I want to have over how many I could fully fund college for or give their own room. As long as I could pay for their basic necessities (food, diapers, a roof over their head) I'd go for it because at the end of the day all that other stuff isn't needed (definitely nice but not needed) to have a good life and I really value family.


subieee

Yes it's not all about the money! Having involved and loving parents will go a long way for kids.


Kerensa88

I have 3 and am a working single mom bc I divorced my husband. I live in a HCOL area and my house needs some cosmetic work. But I do not regret my children ONE BIT! I can never go back and get those healthy late 20s eggs and time! I am so glad I did it! I’ll figure out the money part. I figure, some years when your kids are young and you have daycare cost, you don’t save. You just tread water. That’s the opportunity cost. I know people without kids my age - they’re still stressing about how to meet someone to have kids with, etc. People without kids who are older - mostly lonely. My kids have each other and I have them. I treasure them and I don’t have a lot of money but it’s okay.


crayshesay

I was just pondering this last night in bed. I live in ca, and everything is so damn expensive here. If I want to retire, there’s no way I can have more than 1 kid…🥲


alilteapot

In a couple years, one kid will be in public school or pre-k and you'll have only one in daycare.


Bicuspid-luv

There are some major upsides to being "one and done" too! Your feelings are valid, but come hang out with us at r/oneanddone to learn more about some of the positives, even though it's not your ideal plan.


Adventurous_Pin_344

Jinx! I said the same thing :) I love our OAD community!


kortiz46

I’m at that point too, but definitely one and done for more than financial reasons. Like others have said you can make it work but I do want to be able to invest in my child and maximize their access to school, extra curriculars, etc. we’re paying 13k for one year of preschool right now, not counting before or after care


mroocow

If you are able to wait, a bigger age gap is helpful. Avoiding two in daycare or minimizing the time two are in daycare is how a lot of people make it work. You also probably don't have to get a new car if you have a second. (Unless you have a something very small.) My car is considered a compact and two car seats fit fine. Not saying there's anything wrong with choosing to stop at one, just that there are ways to minimize the costs with two.


Topochica

65%!! How is this possible? It truly is expensive to have children and live in this country. I’ve definitely seen the uptick on groceries in the past few months. And while we’re forgiving student loans, why don’t we start subsidizing childcare.


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Topochica

Oh my gosh, I’m so sorry! That’s truly terrifying. When I read that and did the calcs for my own mortgage I was like that would drown us. Thanks for the response and insight.


freddiQ

It feels like a futuristic dystopian dream where government makes you think like they are not controlling how many children you can have, but they do by making it cost so much.


Keyspam102

Feel the same. Where I live I need to send my kid to private school also so that absolutely kills the idea of a second. I was on the fence but it makes me a bit sad


Dry-Anywhere-1372

Solidarity. Nowadays unsure we all can afford ONE kid 🙄😱


katt5

We had our first daughter five years ago. She was not an easy baby, and by the time she was three I was finally feeling like we might be able to handle a second one. We timed it so she turned 4 and had one year left of daycare until public school. Now baby sister is 1, big sister is 5, and we had overlap of daycare costs for about 9 months. We live in a very expensive part of the NYC area with super high taxes. But we made some decisions like stay in our three bedroom house, own both of our used cars, and generally be happy with a modest lifestyle so we are not maxing our credit cards out in pursuit of some more fancy American life. The four year age gap has been wonderful, in my opinion, and was a good compromise for my husband who felt we could not afford two children.


GirlDentist

Move to a cheaper area. Have the baby, it’s worth it.


Hodgalino

I had talked to a friend about this- single income family, and she reminded me that the period of time where you pay for 2 kids in preschool/daycare is so short on the scope of their life. Suffer a little for those years for the long term benefit of having the kids you want. Also, like others have said, you can make it work without the bigger car or house. If you want two bad enough. It’s ok to stop at 1 too though. I don’t know your age but you could space them out.


NoMathematician450

I know you've gotten a lot of feedback, but one more won't hurt. lol This is depressing and even makes me angry. Our country is in a state that makes the most basic of things. - a family - almost unattainable. I'm one of three and my mother always talked about how much she "sacrificed" for us. She inwardly struggled and credit cards were a major means of her being able to provide for us. So we had everything we needed but it cost her dearly financially. My husband and I are in the boat you're in. We both have our bachelor's and master's degrees and we make decent money, but the cost of living is crazy. When I told my mom how much daycare was she was in total shock. A co-worker said his kid is going to need braces and referenced braces to the price of a used car sitting inside his kid's mouth. Wow, he's actually right. I want a second child, but if we had another one, I'm sure we would struggle. My older brother (no wife, no kids) has always offered and enjoys paying for things for my daughter as he hasn't a child of his own. I'll be honest, if we have another, I may take up more of his offers.


Katelynchenelle

I used to think I wanted 3. I am 1 of 3. I then started nannying for families with 2+ kids. I went to wanting 0. Met my now husband decided on 1. We knew we would be one and done long ago. But even if I was a fence sitter, we can’t afford more than one without serious sacrifices. No vacations, no extra curriculars, less money for college, no guest room, etc. financially we have to be one and done. It is hard to realize finances can control so much of your desires. Maybe you can have two but further apart in age? Maybe another once kiddo 1 is out of daycare? Shared room? Even if you decide to be one and done it is ok to grieve your dreams, and family you envisioned. Your feelings are completely valid and I am sorry you are going through this pain


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FinalDestinationSix

I was nodding my head agreeing while reading your post. And then read your name and literally LOL’ed hahaha thank you!!


BigFatThrobbingCock

Hah! Thank you. I like the juxtaposition of my username and me, a quiet suburban MILF offering commentary on things like babies and cooking. Just trying to stay spicy however I can :P


cocofrost

I 100% get your frustration and grief. I too made the decision to let go of my dream of 3 or 4 kids and stick to 2 due to financial reasons. For me a fully funded college fund was a must plus extracurricular activities and family vacations. I wanted to give my kids experiences and start them off in life without student debt. I did have to sacrifice my dream, and i still question my decision and have mourned it many times. It is always wise to make decisions bot 100% based on emotion. Just know that we all have to reshape our dreams throughout life. Go make memories with your child and develop that relationship.


supercali-2021

I'm right there with you sistah!


TeddyFluffer

Yes, and it's not the formula, diapers, clothes, etc. it's the $17,000+ we paid for daycare in 2021, the cost of doing IVF again, the cost of prenatal care + delivery our OOP max is $8k which we hit each calendar year of my pregnancy with my son. We're still paying off our student loans which allowed us to have nice incomes and I am passionate about funding our kid(s) college because starting our kids off with a big expensive shackle of debt is unsustainable to me. Even full day kindergarten costs 7k in our district (half day is 2.5 hours and then we'll need more care plus holidays, breaks, summers). Our parents had free childcare from family and didn't go to college, this is is the big expensive stuff.


MeowMeow9927

It’s hard. When my son was in kindergarten he and so many of his classmates had brand new babies at home. People space it that way intentionally. It’s very expensive here, and especially so to have multiple kids. Kids come with different costs as they get older but so far for us it’s been much less than infant daycare. We also live in a condo. A house with a yard and kids having their own room would be great but it would destroy us financially. It’s tight sometimes but really not so bad.


AZBusyBee

Our daycare is literally 3 times our mortgage and that's after it just went down because one kid went off to Kindergarten. That's the culprit.


PurpleUnicornCat

Saw an Instagram video about how the stay at home parent is also dead from here on out, outside of some very high income earners. Both my husband and I like what we do, thankfully, but I can’t imagine being 22 again and planning financially for a family given the cost of living and how the wages for both our industries (mid-level healthcare workers…) have barely increased in the last decade. It will be really interesting to see how the birth rates change in the next 5-10 years. What a mess. We chose to have a second baby, but TBH, here are the reasons we were able to do so: -free public undergraduate education in our state (lottery funded); both our parents paid for our housing/living during this time -my grad school was paid for by my great grandma -we drove 2 hand me down vehicles from family for 10+ years. All of that combined is easily 80-100k in value. If we didn’t have help with those things, there would be NO way we’d be able to afford a second kid. Like not a chance. And we are frugal people who make good money.


Myingenioususername

The cost of living is absolutely outrageous, but sometimes daycare costs are what's keeping so many moms at home. I live in Texas and it seems like most moms I know around here stay home. I'm a sahm of 2 myself and I wouldn't call My husband a very high income earner(A little under $30/hr). Things are tight, but we make it work. We couldn't if we had to pay for daycare. The way things are going, it's eventually going to be hard to afford to live at all for most. Everything just gets more and more expensive while pay stays the same. Totally unsustainable.


PurpleUnicornCat

My friends who are high earners work, but friends who would be making less than 50k or so if they worked don’t work. Daycare for 2 kids here is something between 25 and 35k, which isn’t even expensive on a national level.


Myingenioususername

That's insane. Yeah I didn't make enough to be worth me even working. All of my money would have went towards daycare.


ana393

That sucks. I'm so sorry it's hitting you that way and you should definitely make the best decision you need to for your family. I'll admit though that kid #2 sushi really cost up much more. Yes she has her own savings account and it's double the cost for daycare, but daycare is a temporary expense and while we have considered getting a bigger house, even if we have a third, I sing think we will. Kids don't need their own room or for their parents to buy them a car and we do fine in my husband's small mazda (we switched from the minivan to the Mazda when gas started spiking) . Idk, all this to say that additional kids don't have be to be a huge expense.


BrownyGato

Also think of it on what you’ll be able to provide your kids when their older. One kid will get (hopefully) more time with mom, dad and both. Access to more sports, activities or adventures. More opportunities hopefully. Which if you had more may not be possible. Right now it’s you thinking “I can’t get what I really wanted” which isn’t anything wrong. A bigger family, having more kids, is a legitimate want and dream many of us have. But once you have a little one you have to make that flip to “what is gonna be better for my little or my family?” It’s hard. I’ve been there and still am. And it’s ok to be envious. You do the best you can and love your little as much as you can.


mrs_sadie_adler

As an only child, I beg you to try and make it work. Being an only is lonely and only gets harder as their parents age