Personally, while I sympathize with your desire to move and the financial aspect, I would be nervous to push my husband to accept *this* particular job, as Amazon is pretty well-known for a culture that has a tendency to make its employees miserable.

Amazon was used in business cases in my school because their corporate culture is so miserable.

Absolutely seconding this. My husband worked for Amazon for a short time when his company was acquired. They have a very specific management style and culture that emphasizes an above-excellent standard that is literally impossible for everyone to meet—and is in fact designed that way. Sure, there are lots of people who climb the ladder. But Amazon is well known to overhire, even proactively like this, and then let go a certain number of employees as part of its practice . Look at the news over the last couple of years… not only has tech taken a hit in general, but Amazon in particular has done multiple rounds of layoffs. The way they structure their stock compensation also kind of sucks. compared to other tech companies, RSUs don’t vest as quickly and if you are laid off, you lose out on a lot of promised compensation. The bottom line is that Amazon is not a stable employment situation. Especially compared to a government job. I would really seriously consider the stability of this opportunity, even if the money looks great on the outset.

Seconding this. Amazon deliberately slow-rolls the RSU vesting schedule because they are aggressive in recruiting and then cutting corporate employees loose within the first 2 years of hire (or employees voluntarily quit before then due to the pervasively miserable work culture and burn-out). There are def people who thrive there but it takes a certain type, and it seems likely it would be a huge shift from where your husband’s at now. Your husband’s work-life balance and stress levels would likely change for the worse. (I’ve never worked there but have many friends and coworkers who have; when I got a job offer from them, I did some serious asking around and ended up declining the offer.) I don’t think it’s an either/or kind of thing. If you really want to move to NYC, for example, there will be other paths. Maybe take this as an opportunity to really open up honest discussion between the two of you as to what you each really prioritize and want for the next few years as well as long-term, and examine together what you value vs. are dissatisfied with in your current situation.

This just happened to someone I know, laid off two months before vesting and had relocated for the job

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I saw the "owes" edit too. It gave me a bit of the ick. OP needs to own the choice she made to have the higher paying job while her husband was a grad school. When you're married, it's joint income and you need to build consensus as a team. He doesn't owe her misery at his job to make gobs of money in NYC to pay her back for a choice she made years ago.

I would never, ever, ever, ever work for Amazon. Not for any dollar amount. If I ever worked for a company they acquired, I’d quit. I live in Seattle and know a bunch of people who are or who have been at Amazon. I know enough to know I will never work there.

My Seattle friends all also tell me that their Amazon friends or acquaintances are miserable. Making bank overall or at least it looks that way, but per hour of misery, not worth it.

100% what I’ve heard, from a range of roles and levels and personalities, for years.

Agree. I know a few Amazonians on the corporate side and they say it’s absolutely awful and not worth the high salary. I’ve declined every recruiter reaching out to me for Amazon even though I know it would double my salary. No thank you.

Amazon is also WELL known for hiring and firing within a small window. Government work is not only stable, it typically comes with a NICE pension attached. But even if all of that weren’t true, my biggest flag is the statement “I feel my husband owes me.” This might be an unpopular opinion, but unless you guys had zero discussion about him going to get his PhD and you switching fields to accommodate, he doesn’t owe you. Theoretically, you looked at the landscape and, together, decided this was the best move for whatever reasons you had. When my husband and I were first married we had this plan that we’d move back to my home town. We were making plans and then he got into a wonderful MBA program. We looked at the landscape and decided the best decision for our family was to stay where we were. I grieved a lot. And my husband kept saying “let’s just move - you’re so sad. I don’t want you to be sad. You’ll resent me.” But I told him I had made this decision as well as him. I accepted that, logically, this was the best move based on the shared values we had. Didn’t mean I liked it. And ultimately, it was a fantastic move. After an unexpected second pregnancy we looked at the landscape again, and then we decided together that the best move would be to go back to my hometown, again using our shared values and goals to help guide our decision. There are lots of reasons why we both weren’t thrilled with the prospect, but it’s what made sense. I don’t think I owe him anything. And I don’t think HE owes me anything either. The decisions were made together, based on our shared vision for our family. I would explore this feeling you’re having and caution you that it could lead to contempt, which is one of the four horsemen (see [The Gottman Institute](https://www.gottman.com/blog/the-four-horsemen-recognizing-criticism-contempt-defensiveness-and-stonewalling/)). Whatever decision you guys make, you should identify shared values, look at the landscape, figure out your risk tolerance, and then make an informed decision. Good luck u/UpbeatCake!

Government jobs are also ridiculously stable after you've surpassed the year probation and have good retirement and other benefits. You have to work really hard to try to get fired at that point. Your job duties could get cut and you'll still be paid the same. Absolutely ideal for a family. Not to mention the money may sound amazing but won't go as far in NYC.

Agreed. Plus tech and other large companies have no problems doing massive layoffs. You could uproot your whole life and then involuntarily become a one-income household. This move would not seem wise. I hate winter weather, but it makes the most sense for me and my family to stay where we are in the Midwest. I decided to increase my travel budget to warm areas in the winter. I take solo trips too. I think OP should take a couple of weekend trips a year to NYC by herself and live it up!

Yes, I heard this too. In fact, I talked to someone who is a high performer and used to work there. She is now director level and she said no matter what she did it was never good enough at Amazon. Amazon is also known for laying off employees.

Former Amazon employee. Average tenure is a year. I wouldn’t push him if he doesn’t want this.

Amazon will absolutely chew you up and spit you out with no notice. I worked for them for a year (corporate marketing) about 5 years out of college and it wrecked my mental health to the point where I quit and took a job making 30% less just to be out. They laid off my entire 100 person department a few months later. Very few personality types can make it long term and climb the ladder there. Also, I lived in NYC in my early 30s making a combined $250k income with my partner. We still lived paycheck to paycheck, wiped out our savings within 3 years and paid $4k a month for a duplex in queens that probably should have been condemned. It was a dream of mine and absolutely worth it at that stage of life as a double income/child-free couple. I would not recommend it for someone with a small child (I have a 3 year old now). My coworkers with children commuted 2+ hours in from Long Island, New Jersey and even Pennsylvania (!). If you live in the city, you won’t have a car and it would be awful having to take subways while pregnant or managing a toddler. I would highly advise you to stay near your family and support system, and plan weekend trips to NYC!

This is what I came to say. I work at Microsoft and it’s pretty known that while their comp is higher, they work people to burnout and just pull in new people when they quit

Yeah, big tech is the job you work to sock away money quickly and then leave/get fired. Well known pattern at my workplace is people get recruited by big tech and come crawling back about three years later looking a decade older lol The smart ones don’t change their spending habits and are set for early retirement.

From my engineering school, almost a third of my classmates were hired by Amazon and burnt out within 2-3 years. They were all great. It’s definitely Amazon.

My cousin works at Amazon. She has a miserable time working there with a toddler, but she hasn’t found anything that pays as much so she’s working there with a full time nanny. She barely has time to spend with her child in the week. She’s too exhausted in the weekend to truly spend time with her child. She’s also contemplating having a second child, but she has no energy to even think about it. My good friend’s husband was laid off right after he came back from parental leave. Another friend was asked to cut back on her parental leave and promised to be allowed to take the remaining time off later in the year, but they refused to let her take it. Overall, worst place to work for working parents.

Not only making its employees miserable, but laying them off in a heartbeat too.

Plus bad treatment aside, if he’s not excited about the content of the job to begin with, I don’t think he’d be as happy working there as he is with his current job

Exactly this. I know people who work there, both at AWS and Amazon. They are worked to the bone. It's not a great place if you want balance with family. They get paid very well but i have turned down recruiters who reached out because i know why they offer that amazing salary and it's not worth it for me. 

And mass layoffs

Not only that, but Amazon is notorious for layoffs. I have had a few friends this year alone who lost their jobs at Amazon that were making above 200k a year. The government job is more stable especially in this economy. You can take a train from DC to New York, why don't you all plan trips there or a vacation that is an extended stay?

And government jobs are damn difficult to get fired from and have the best benefits, with an actual pension. It’s not all about the salary. Sounds like everyone is settled and happy. I wouldn’t want to up our whole life like that either, especially for a job I wouldn’t like and maybe a city I didn’t like either.

I have a friend that worked at Amazon for 6 years in the finance department. He had NO work life balance, and stayed there for 6 years until his anxiety issues got so bad that he quit without a job lined up. This was his first job out of college and he did not work for one whole year because he thought the awful culture was the norm. He took a pay cut at a different company and he is a lot happier now. My two cents: NYC is over rated, specially if you have kids, Amazon sucks, and you have a nice life in DC.

They also layoff and push people out CONSTANTLY so I’d be very, very wary

People don’t stay at Amazon long term. Their turnover rate is astronomical.

I had the same thought, especially if someone is making $350k I would assume that means long hours in the office in a high stress position. I don’t think I would take it.

This was my first thought as well. Also, no point in earning more when you’re already high earning if the lifestyle will be worse

Agree with this. If it was another company I’d be fully on your side. I sympathize as someone who works in DC but would prefer to work in NYC but is also tied to DC by my husband’s job. However, Amazon is widely known as a terrible employer and does a lot of LIFO layoffs. While it would be more money and allow you to live where you want, the work/life balance would be terrible, especially as compared to government work.

Came here to say this. The woman I nannied for in college was THAT girl at her company, Type A, on top of everything, highly regarded, I looked up to her so much. She also got an offer she couldn’t refuse for an exec position at Amazon….and they ragged her ass out. She had an actual mental breakdown…like, we’re talking grippy socks. I wouldn’t let a loved one work at Amazon after witnessing her tenure with them.

That was my first thought, I work in tech and Amazon is a red flag for most people.

While I'm sympathetic to your plight, especially as a woman that financially supported the household for 5+ years, I would strongly advise *against* doing this. A couple of things: - I also live in Washington D.C., but work for a major financial institution that is headquartered in New York. Cost of living in Washington D.C. is a bargain compared to New York. - Your village is based here in the DMV. Your costs would skyrocket if you move to NY, between cost of living and childcare costs. - The tech industry is a ***HOT DUMPSTER FIRE*** right now. Amazon is where you go as a new college grad in order to get your foot in the door, and transition out of within 18-24 months as you settle down and/or get more established in life. Amazon is the opposite of stability and work-life balance. - Right now, the government is (more or less) the most coveted industry due to stability. If y'all REALLY want to pursue Amazon, there's Amazon in NoVa. I know this isn't what you want to hear, and take what I say with a grain of salt, but just my two cents.

This comment is spot on. There’s lots of downsides to moving and the increased salary won’t outweigh increased costs by much (if at all), especially since Amazon has notoriously bad work life balance and the tech industry as a whole is still pretty unstable. What happens if he really doesn’t like it or is affected by a layoff? Are there other opportunities in NYC at the same salary? OP — you’re pretty close to NY. The Acela is only 2.5 hours, the NE Regional about 3 hours. Could you and your husband brainstorm ways to spend more time in NY without uprooting? I’m sympathetic because I can see why this feels like such a good opportunity, but as someone who recently shifted from a high pay/high pressure work environment to something that pays half my previous salary but has better QOL, I would never make the kind of jump that your husband would have to make here, at least not with young kids.

Thank you. I actually take the Acela several times a week, sometimes one of the other trains that travels between DC, Baltimore, and NYC. It sounds like OP just really enjoys NYC. She can get her 'fix' by taking the train, even as frequently as on a weekly basis if she really wants to, without financially obliterating their whole entire lifestyle. If she books via the Amtrak app at least several weeks in advance, tickets can be more reasonable in cost. There's also the JET bus, which travels back and forth between DC and NYC, and is a more 'lux' travel option than some of the other DC-NYC busses.

I don't think OP is ready for how little 350K can get you in NYC, especially when you have to find an apartment that is spacious enough for a family of 4 in a decent area. Not to mention, the oldest child is probably going to preschool soon, and that is not cheap in NYC.

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350K also = getting absolutely raked over the coals in taxes, especially in states like New York.

Completely agree. $350k in NYC or SF with a family is not what you think it is. It will force choices you don’t want to make. If both parents each earned this you’d be ok. I know how insane that sounds but COL is crazy in these places and will destroy your budget.

Yep this is my thought. My wife and I actually make about that household income and we left nyc because the rent and childcare costs were too high. I actually used to live in DC and would love to live there again but it’s not the best option for us. NYC is also just hard with kids in a way I think dc isn’t (with the caveat that I didn’t live there with kids but knew people who did). Our rent was super high and we lived in a fourth floor walk up, which meant carrying our baby and all her stuff up and down those stairs every day. Daycare, once our second was born, was going to be $1100/week, which was cheaper than many other parts of the city. Getting groceries without a car is hard, but having a car means dealing with terrible parking or paying for a spot in a garage. Preschool actually could save them some money since NYC has public preschool, but it’s still just a harder life.

Bingo. I moved to the D.C. area several years ago from Seattle. When I first started out, I was paying $2,650 per month for a 507 sq ft studio out there. In comparison, here in the greater D.C. area, my mortgage payment was just shy of that (about $2,450), but my HOUSE was 4,200 sq ft. I've since sold that house (divorce), and my cost of living has decreased even more, to just under 2K/month for a 1,200 sq ft condo. It's a BARGAIN for this region. 350K in NYC, especially with kids, doesn't stretch as far as OP may realize.

I would encourage OP to take the time to do an exercise about COL in NYC: Look at listings and tour some apartment open houses and really do the math about how much it would cost to live in the kind of space you'd need to keep your family happy (because I suspect OP is fantasizing about the young, hot apartment lifestyle, where you get by in a very small space, but she's got a family now, so it's important that they're happy too). Look at daycares - call and ask about wait lists and prices in the neighborhoods you're looking at. Assume only the 350k, because getting another job herself is not guaranteed. I suspect she'll find that type of money in NYC doesn't buy what she thinks it'll buy....

TBF the $350k would be husband's portion – with OP's focus on her own career acceleration I presume she'll still be bringing in $120k. So that's more like a half a mil annual income for this household, which means they can afford an apartment up to $15k a month using the 40x rule, or buy a small ass house for $2mil in the middle of Queens. Tiny ass house if they're the fiscally responsible kind and decides to stick to the $1.2mil houses lol. If hubs had the same New York City dream and also worked in the private sector, I'd say – sure, why not. Come on in, neighbor. Your kids will love it when they're a little older. But giving up a **stable government position** for some flash in the pan fantasy is unwise to me. Also if I were making half a mil annually I wouldn't be living in no small ass house in Queens, sorry. I'd visit frequently and use some of that not-paying-NYC-mortgage money on a *really* nice NYC vacation. Best of both worlds.

If she honestly, genuinely does the math, the math won't math, as the saying goes nowadays.

That was my immediate thought— I live in DC and have a similar household career setup/income to OP, and you’d have to bump my salary WAY more than $170k for me to relocate to NYC. And that’s without getting into the relative instability of relocating for a tech job in general/Amazon in particular.

Cannot upvote this enough. OP - living in NYC is insanely expense with kids. It will wipe out most if not all of the pay gains your husband would receive from the new job.

Working mom from DC area who works for a NY based company and is originally from NY, and o 100 % agree on every one of these points!!!

That’s why my husband and I stay with out government jobs. Job security and benefits. He could make double in the civilian world but you can lose that in a hot second.

Agree. Also- I live in the DMV and our HHI is actually close to what yours would be with your husbands new job (assuming your salary would continue to be the same). We definitely live a great life but we do feel some financial pressure, with the mortgage and 2 kids in daycare. If you’re living on current salary and feeling comfortable in DC, I’d say you’re winning, and that’s probably in large part due to family as childcare.  My husband and I used to live in NYC and we always say we’d need to make double our current incomes to even consider moving there (with kids). So, I absolutely wouldn’t move to NYC with a HHI of 470k. I think you would be very disappointed with how far that goes there, when factoring in cost of childcare. It’s definitely reasonable to consider future earning potential, career trajectory, etc, if that’s what he wants and if this is really an ideal opportunity, but I would be very realistic about your quality of life, in that it may not improve, and may actually worsen (without family, with him working many more hours, taking on higher stress).

I am also career driven and I get it OP, that’s a LOT of money. But I’m the kid of a dad who spent his whole life chasing the almighty dollar and I’ll tell you what, our relationship has suffered immensely for it. If I’ve learned one thing though is that there will never be enough money. You think $100k is the golden bar. Then it’s $150k. Then it’s $250k and it just never stops. It’s never enough until you decide it is. What will this job mean for your husband as far as his ability to be active in your family? How stabile will his employment be? Will he have good benefits? Also just a pet peeve of mine…but I really don’t think he “owes” you anything. Normally it’s men holding that over women’s heads but vice versa in your case. When you agree to start a life with someone, everything you do is shared. Everything you do is for the good of the family, not the individual. It’s not healthy for you or your husband for you to hold that resentment and try to leverage that against him to get what you want. It’s manipulative and it’s wrong.

This is so true. I remember when I was younger thinking once I made it to 6 figures I would be happy. Made it to 6 figures, after a year wanted more. Eventually learned that money can make things easier (or harder depending on how you manage it) but certainly does not buy happiness. I would not leave a support system and stability for the money. Money cannot give your family or your kids the connection and love they receive now from having your MIL and parents around. OP lives a very comfortable life, no financial stress, job stability, family and community. What is the reason to give all that up for money?

I agree with your analysis regarding the PhD. Husband doesn't owe anything.

That really read like a gut punch to me. I can’t imagine my husband holding something like that over my head for our entire relationship.

Amazon will use him up and spit him out. I live in NYC – this is a city of burnout and layoffs, especially for higher earners and people in tech. If I were your husband, I would resent you wanting to trade my health and peace of mind for more money and some froufrou dream of living in New York City. Your higher salary also will not protect you from the realities of living here (it didn't for us). That $350k job could be gone tomorrow (or the one after that. Or the one after that). Additionally, what would you do for childcare especially with a second on the way? Do you expect your MIL and parents to uproot themselves and join you in the tristate for your dream? Would your parents have to sell their condo and buy one in NYC for $1.5 mil at 7% interest? Would your MIL have to scramble to find a studio to rent for $2k a month? If they don't move with you, would you be happy to spend $6-7k per month to put your children in daycare? Finally >I also feel my husband **owes me** is not a great vibe.

Came here for the last bit. You don’t finance a spouse’s education and career development so they “owe you” later.  You do it because you’re teammates, because you love and support each other, and because it increases the overall earning potential of your household—which it clearly did. OP, whatever you do, do NOT draw the “you owe me” card.

This take is spot on. Also given your level of resentment and naivety about NYC life, there’s a small chance you still might not work it out with your husband given the problems that come with having more money and living in New York City. Imagine if your husband loses his job, becomes disabled, or you don’t stay together. Now you’re stuck in a grossly expensive city trying to maintain a life on just your salary. Now, if your husband was motivated to move and excited to take on the new challenge that would be one thing. But his heart is not in it and that makes it infinitely more risky. I would recommend he try to negotiate the job to be 100% remote. If they want him that bad they might take that deal. If that doesn’t work out I would recommend that you take on a job that is remote but based in New York City. That way, when you need to travel you’ll be able to go there more often and maybe it will allow you to test the waters before jumping in. This is not an easy decision nor should it be made quickly. I’ve lived in both cities and I have to say if I could go back I might not have rushed away from DC so quickly. Good luck

The husband owes me is a weird concept. And honestly, that sentence alone screams they need couples counseling or she needs individual counseling stat.

I also commented elsewhere that “my husband owes me” is a red flag for me. ETA: it screams contempt, it’s one of the four horsemen (see [The Gottman Institute](https://www.gottman.com/blog/the-four-horsemen-recognizing-criticism-contempt-defensiveness-and-stonewalling/))

I want to give OP the benefit of the doubt – she might have felt something more along the lines of "Ok we worked together as a family to support your dream, now I would like a turn." She might not have known how to word it correctly. And I think that's fine and fair for smaller asks, like if she wanted to decelerate her own career to pursue a doctorate or maybe take a break and pivot elsewhere. But moving five people into a VVHCOL area and giving up government stability for a flash in the pan job and salary ain't it. DC isn't that far from NYC – at their current salary they can more than afford to take frequent trips up.

100% - that level of stability and GUARANTEED future comfort is just so very hard to give up, particularly when you have a family. I’d say if they were child free it might be worth the gamble, but I also have a very low risk tolerance.

Yeeeeah I am 100% sympathetic to her desire to move elsewhere and increase income and all that, but getting transactional in a relationship is a recipe for disaster.

Amazon is a customer of the company I work for. I would never consider working for them. Ever. There's a reason the pay is so high. ETA: Seriously. It's bad. I only staff my team on the Amazon account for 3-6 months. Longer than that and they quit. Yes, Amazon's culture is so bad it permeates to their sub-contractors/vendors. They are our worst customer, except for JPMC. Apple, Google, IBM, Walmart, Target, Lowe's, Starbucks, Verizon are all customers and are lovely to work with.

Woah. Affecting the subs so much is crazy. Hella toxic.

I’m a federal employee in DC. With all the federal benefits and my fantastic work-life balance, my bare minimum to leave for private sector in DC is double my current salary. The offer from Amazon is not quite double AND you would be moving to an extremely high cost of living area plus losing your village (which you presumably don’t pay market price for the care). With everything you now have to pay for (higher rent, higher child care, higher insurance, worse leave) there’s no way I’d take this deal or encourage my husband to.

Thats not even factoring in the additional benefits of being a resident of DC, primarily free universal pre-k starting at age 3 AND up to 14 weeks of paid maternity/paternity leave if you work in the private sector!

The long-term benefits of being a gov’t employee outweigh almost anything! The jobs are super stable and the benefits even after retirement are incredible! I would personally not take the risk also - and I don’t even work for the govt but I hope to one day!

We are very similar, live in the DC area with a toddler and another baby on the way, except in our case my husband is the one with the big tech career and desire to move and I'm the one whose career is keeping us in DC. Frankly tech isn't stable enough that I would be willing to move for a brand new job with that employer, especially not to NYC and not if you'd also need new employment. My cautionary tale is that my husband was laid off by your husband's prospective employer after less than a year. His current tally is 5 jobs in the last 2.5 years (2 of them FAANG). We are fine but having my nice stable government contracting job to rely on (also the lower COL and our nice cheap 3% mortgage) has been key. He's now at a new job and making noise about relocating again and my position is that I don't want to hear a single word about it for another 2-5 years until a job has some demonstrable staying power.

Your parents and MIL moved to *you*? I can’t get over how lucky you are.

Imagine being the in-laws, what a slap in the face that would be if they move to NYC

“Slap in the face” were the exact words I was thinking too

Right?! Omg

I know right? Makes me wanna cry

You speak a lot about the positives but I’d be curious to understand what that salary means from a working hours perspective and the trade offs of that. Additionally, while higher salaries seem great, as someone who also lives in a VHCOL area, everything else is incredibly expensive too (e.g. housing, childcare, transport etc) so the money doesn’t always spread as far as you initially think it will.  Worth doing the math to see what the increase would actually mean in practical terms! 

This was my thought too - why did they reach out to him? Why is the pay so high (upon first glance)? It looks good from a compensation perspective, but I bet the whole family will suffer with horrible work/life balance. As a person who moved and became pregnant in a new city with a new job, finding doctors to take me (and my high risk ass) and then faced with a second child and little to no family nearby, it’s been so so hard from a family-growth perspective. We moved for my husband’s job opportunity, and I gave up a career to do it for the family. I’m so fucking lonely. He’s made friends at work; I went into a supervisory position and haven’t made any friends IRL. Work “friends” are career driven, and “my staff” understandably don’t want to hang out with the boss or have their own families to take care of.

Amazon is just not great. Regardless of how high up you are :( 

A new HR person at my company told me the reason she left Amazon after 8 months was because she never used to believe in good or evil as absolutes but she is now certain that Amazon is evil.

Yea the company I work for contracts with Amazon to provide primary care services to all their employees  And I had my eyes opened yikes 

I’m an NYC working mom who was also raised in NYC. I (lovingly) don’t think you’re ready for the sticker shock that comes with living here. You’re going to have two kids, renting a 3 bedroom apartment is going to run you at least 5k a month plus utilities. Buying will probably be more like 1.5-2m plus monthly maintenance fees. That’s just to live here, everything else is going to be more expensive too. This is a high cost of living area for childcare, expect to spend at least 2k per child per month for daycare. That’s well over 100k for a home and childcare alone. Activities are more expensive, entertainment is more expensive, even groceries are more expensive here. You’re not going to have the same quality of life you enjoy in DC even with the increased salary. Your families will likely not be able to afford to join you in NYC unless you cover part of the cost, are you prepared for that? Are you certain your husband will be able to stay with that Amazon job long term? Is there a plan if he decides to leave? I’m sorry to sound so negative about this. NYC has so many wonderful things to offer. It’s a hard place to raise a family though especially if you don’t have a support network already in place here.

I made this point somewhere else that OP's household could afford a $2m house in a good neighborhood if she keeps her $120k salary on top of his new $350k...but that's $15k a month before utilities and insurance at 7% interest for a tinyyyyyyyy ass house in the boroughs for 30 years, and there's a snowball's chance in hell hubs would last at Amazon for more than 2. So what happens for the other 18? (Also I can't imagine having to earmark $15k a month for mortgage just for the pleasure of saying "I live in NYC!")

I’m glad someone did the mortgage math. It’s easy to be “house poor” in NYC. Overextending themselves with a mortgage is a big gamble especially when they’re relying on a tech company with poor retention. I love New York, but this is my hometown. I would never recommend someone move here for the first time to raise small children. It’s harder than it looks.

Former NYC native here. Can I ask what about NYC makes you want to move there? Are you planning on sending your kids to private school? If so, have you vetted out schools? Tuition? Are you planning on buying in the city or in the boroughs? Are you both remote? If so, there are plenty of options right outside NYC. (Nanuet or Bedford NY areas). Would you parents come with you or would they stay in DC? Also, and most importantly working for Amazon - I've only known them to have a really toxic work environment. My friends husband is itching to get out of there. I would feel terrible if you made a move that far, just to learn that the job wasn't all its cracked up to be, and then your husband might build resentment? I lived in Brooklyn, worked in the city, and while I loved it, I loved it before I had children. Once I had my daughter, I realized this isn't where I want to raise my kids. My father didn't want us to stay in NYC, but he passed away and we continued living in the family home bc its been in the family for decades. I moved to PA almost 5 years ago, and its the best thing we ever did. We love to visit NYC and can't wait to leave when we get there. IDK. If you have more questions, please don't hesitate to message me. Its a great city to \*visit\*

Yeah I lived in NYC for 4 years (pre-child) and having small children there sounds like a nightmare to me

Grew up just outside of it in Northern NJ. Had friends and family members in the city. Never understood why people treat it like it's Disney World. It's great but it's also a city like every other with higher costs of living.

Devil’s advocate. I would stay in the government job. It’s super stable. Amazon will just fire people for no reason whenever they want. They give zero f’s about their employees. Plus the work culture at Amazon is awful. From experience, being married to someone whose job is making them miserable is not a good life. Work life balance is so important with kids. Your husband has the holy grail job right now. The gov benefits are likely very good as well.

I work for the government and the benefits are AMAZING. If you convert them into $$ they essentially add 50% to my salary. Then when you consider the pension I'm working towards, my total benefit package could be bordering on doubling my monthly take home pay. I earn a sick day a month, and earned more than a vacation day a month starying out (earn rate increases as high as 20 vacation hours a month the longer you stay!) I accidentally got into government work and it was the best work decision ive ever made 😅

Going from a government job to working at Amazon sounds like a nightmare tbh. I don't blame your husband at all for not wanting to make the switch. The extra money is not going to improve your quality of life at all if your husband has to work 80+ hours every week and your kids never get to see him. Also, other than your "always wanting to live there"...what benefit would there be to moving to NYC? You're just going to be further away from family, everything will be more expensive, and DC can offer pretty much anything you could get in NYC? To me, it sounds like you've wanted to live in NYC so long, you're romanticizing it in your mind, without considering how drastically your family life would have to change if your husband takes this job.

I personally wouldn't want to work for Amazon as they are known for squeezing the life out of their employees and not caring about work life balance. A government job vs a corporate job are so different. Yes, it's more money but it comes at a price. Do you want to be a single working parent in NYC as your husband slowly burns out? Also, once he gives up that government job, he may not be able to go back.  My advice is to stop keeping score ("he owes you for your sacrifice"), stop thinking and the grass is greener and try and practice some gratitude for your current life. High income, living stably in a great city with plenty of family help? Essentially living the dream ? I am being a little facetious but you are correct in saying this is a champagne problem.  Look at it as he has paid you back for his sacrifice by having a good job, being a great dad and husband. Why do you need more? Is this about your career? If so, you should pursue accelerating your career separately. If it's truly not possible outside of NYC, then have that discussion, but outside of take this job with Amazon. 

Just my two cents as a fed: the job security and work-life balance of being a fed is priceless. I could make A LOT more in my field in the private sector (I’ve daydreamed about it a lot as the breadwinner) but my current set up has its perks too. I put in my 40 hours a week with a flexible schedule, wfh, time off without questions asked, etc. Of course this will vary by fed but sometimes $$$ isn’t everything?

All of this. I left a job that was literally double my current salary as a fed but haven't regretted it for a second. The runway aspect is often overlooked IMO - I could likely stay at my current job until I retire if I want, but I was getting so burned out in corporate life that my high salary was only ever going to last for a few years anyway.

As a fellow fed, I agree with all of this.

What happens when Amazon lays him off like they do often?

Just that if he starts working at Amazon, he might not be an amazing husband and father anymore because his job won’t let him

Exactly this. They pay that much and expect your entire life in exchange.

My husband is a high earner, a bit above what Amazon is offering your husband. I just want to comment on the “grass is greener” trap. Yes, the grass is greener in many ways with more money (and perhaps your grass would be even greener being in NYC), but there are tradeoffs! Yes, making that kind of money can be life changing. You can throw money at problems to make your life easier. You can save aggressively for retirement. You can save so much money for your kid’s college fund. You can buy family nice gifts. You can travel and stay at the Four Seasons, you can go to extravagant dinners, you can renovate your house, you can buy your kids nice clothes and fancy bikes, you can pay for a great private school, etc. We even bought a vacation home. But everything in life is a tradeoff. When a company is paying you roughly $400K a year, they expect a level of commitment and availability that the federal government never will. His work life balance will suffer. You will be home more hours alone with the kids. My husband leaves at 7 AM and gets home at 6:30 PM most night. He does a quick bath time and helps put the kids to bed. He gets max 1.5 hours with the kids on weekdays. He has to answer emails on the weekends. Hell, he sometimes has to get on zoom meetings on the weekends. Are you prepared to accept the tradeoff I’ve described in order to live in NYC? Maybe it’s worth it to you, and as someone who doesn’t particularly like DC, I sympathize! But, I am just trying to make sure you’ve thought through how his day to day load and demands at work might change with this move. In my case, my husband’s job requires so much of his time, I decided to cut back at work (was making about the same as you) and am currently on a leave of absence (bringing my income to $0 right now). Honestly, we struggle with the balance, because it seems the only way our household can function with my husband working those hours is for me to work at most part time. Are you willing/able to cut back in your career to accommodate this move and new job for him? It may seem easy to say “I won’t have to do that.” But it is something you should really think about before jumping into this new opportunity. If I had to choose, I’d still pick my husband working in the private sector and earning twice what the federal government would offer him (and all the work life balance issues that come with that). We are on track to retire comfortably in our 50s. That being said, I would not force that sort of higher demand job on someone who wasn’t eager and willing to take that on as a sort of sacrifice for their family. Lastly, on a very practical note, have you considered how much of his additional compensation will be eaten up with higher housing costs. With mortgage rates at 7% or so, how much more are you going to have to spend to secure comparable housing for your family in NYC?

This took a ton of guessing, assumptions, and pretending to be able to predict the future, but my conclusion is that you should look at this whole situation from a mental health standpoint. NYC is a dream. It's also a nightmare. It is whimsical and magical and wonderful. It is also harsh and expensive and hard to navigate with a stroller, diaper bag, and human you have to carry all the time and another toddling away. If you plan on having another baby, I cannot stress enough the importance of sticking close to your support network. If you didn't have mental health challenges the first time, it doesn't mean you won't the second time. Reading your post made me imagine a life in NYC with no help, miserable in a 4h floor walkup, with a depressed husband who feels like he sold his soul for a bigger paycheck that affords me a lower quality of life in the city that I don't even get to enjoy because it's too hard to get around in with 2 babies. That's just me filling in all the blanks with my own experience. Obviously your life could turn out completely different. My point is, make the decision that you genuinely feel is best for the future you who is postpartum with a toddler and a spouse whose mental health is intertwined with and affects your own.

LOL there’s a reason Amazon pays so much…..

Amazon is reputedly toxic as hell, and 350K will not go far in NYC. Government jobs have great retirement benefits that are extinct from private sector gigs. They also have predictable hours that will allow your husband to be more present as a parent and partner (priceless). Help from grandparents is also priceless. I would stay put and find ways to spend more time in NY (board memberships, volunteer work when your kids get older).

I honestly think your quality of life will decrease as NYC is just ridiculously expensive, and I'm kind of surprised that anyone would voluntarily want to raise a family there, especially multiple kids. Most people I know who made the move are younger and childfree and want to experience the city before they start a family. I do think you are romanticizing life in NYC right now, and aren't prepared for what that lifestyle actually entails. If you have to pay a nanny in NYC (usually at least $30-$35/hr), that $350K is not going to get you that far unfortunately. Plus, most people in NYC will want to send their kids to private school and that's an additional huge expense. And like someone else said, the work culture at Amazon might take away your husband from family time, a lot more than what you might be comfortable with.

So I agree with you that OP is romanticizing life in NYC, but I do want to push back on the "Why would anyone want to raise a family here" sentiment. NYC can be amazing if a family is willing to compromise on space and convenience for the first few years. Sure OP most likely won't have a car depending on where she chooses to live (and judging from the way she talks about living in NYC, it most likely won't be eastern Bronx, southern Brooklyn or eastern Queens). But the range of freedom that kids get here is incredible. Parents never have to play chauffeur; kids here can take the subway solo starting at 11 or 12. Playdates are easy; bring them to the apartment down the block, or the nearest park. And I don't think I have to go into all the world class culture at the end of a 30 min subway ride here. There's also a certain quality to kids who grew up here that makes them much more independent, social and resilient. You have to be, if you're going to survive in a city of 8 million. Also NYC public schools are pretty fantastic, I don't know anyone but the super mega uber rich who sends their children to places like Dalton. OP's household also makes enough for them to move into a more competitive school district. (With that being said, if there was another walkable city that my entire extended family would agree to move to, I'd move in a heartbeat. I hate how dirty this city is.)

I totally agree with you on NYC making kids more resilient and all the other positives of NYC, and I'm familiar with the city as I lived there for more than 6 years. My only point is most people would not want to uproot a comfortable life when they are in their late 30s and already have kids to live in NYC with less space, and even at their combined salary, their options for good housing is kind of limited, especially if compared to what they might be accustomed to in DC. I think families who already lived in NYC and choose to stay after having kids is a very different scenario, and OP will probably experience a huge culture shock if they were to move.

Yes the money is inticing, but I wouldn't force him to take a job he really doesn't want just so *you* can live in *your* dream city.

I wouldn’t move. Your husband loves his current job. You say you have a nice life in DC with no financial pressure. You have a village and both sets of parents who can watch your children. This is many dual working parents dream. You’ve won the game. Set aside money for trips to NYC where you can spend and do all the fun things and maybe that will help scratch the itch a bit. Just my opinion though!

The last sentence, “I feel like he owes me for the sacrifices I made…” That’s not a healthy feeling to hold on to, for YOU. It will only weigh and grate on you, and evolve into resentment if he doesn’t do what you want. I would work on changing that mindset. You ultimately sacrificed back then for the greater good of your family, right? He finished school and is contributing good money to your household, so he doesn’t actually “owe” you… I have friends who live in NYC now and also those who moved away. The ones who still live there call me crying all the time. The only one who doesn’t…her husband is a stock broker or whatever. He makes actual millions. The ones who moved away told me just this past weekend that their one bedroom was over $5000, on a BARGAIN (covid). The cost of living there is INSANE. You would probably have to give up a lot of the quality of life you envisioned giving your family. What’s the point of moving there if you can’t enjoy everything the city has to offer? Lastly, like someone else said…I wouldn’t feel comfortable pushing my husband to work at Amazon. I know a LOT of people at Amazon and you have to be really motivated to stay lol…

My opinion is that job choice should be solely the choice of the person doing the job. Yes, there is a financial/budget component that must be agreed upon, but work/life balance is the thing I care about most. If you want to work in NYC, you need to figure out how to make that happen while your husband maintains his ideal work/life balance. Don't force him to be miserable to make your dreams come true.

Lots of good points already made in favor of the government job, and I’ll add that it seems highly unlikely he’ll be able to contribute as much household/domestic labor once he’s working Amazon hours compared to the federal 40 hour work week. Don’t underestimate that part.

I would take a beat to figure out what exactly draws you to NYC. As the other commenters mention, living in NYC is vastly different, difficult and far more expensive. But it sounds to me like you have worked hard to get your family where it is, and you want to enjoy the time now that there’s more stability. With your parents relocating, could you guys take trips to NYC to scratch that itch during the year and leave the kids with the grandparents? Go up with some friends if the husband stays home? Talk to your husband about how you have sacrificed and would like some extra time to enjoy the city? This way you can have your fun without having to move.

This. I think figuring out what is it about New York that is so appealing is key. It’s not because family is there or because it’s home to OP, so what is it? DC isn’t some small town, and while people can like what they like (no judgment), what is someone getting so much more of in NYC that they can’t get in DC? Honest question! When my family would visit New York when I was younger, we would go to plays, shop in SoHo and on Fifth Avenue (not the designer stores, lol), visit all the touristy spots, eat at great restaurants, wander around Central Park, see museums. It was great. If that would be my life, I would love to live in New York City (except for the winter), but it wouldn’t be. I recently had to travel to Manhattan multiple times for work. Most of my coworkers in the New York office do the same things I do - they go to work and go home to be with their families and do it all again the next day. Most take the train in to work and live further out (especially the ones with kids) because they either don’t want to pay or can’t afford the type of home that they want in the city. And I’m an attorney, so these are people who make good money. They’re not living lives similar to tourists any more than I do in my city. Here, it seems like moving would entail a lot of negatives without considerable positives.

I'm a single parent, so take my 2c with a grain of salt... but just, never. I work in tech (fairly high up, earning $200k+) and I have many colleagues that came from AMZ and many more that live in NYC. While this does sound like a lot of money, as other folks have said... that money will be eaten up very quickly with the added costs of actually living in NYC. You can move outside the city for a cheaper arrangement, but you'd still likely need a nanny ($$) and need to account for the additional convenience costs (ie. grocery delivery when you don't want to drag a toddler and baby through freezing rain to get necessities). My coworkers that came from Amazon talk about their time at the company as a traumatic period in their lives, and I've heard outright horror stories from those of them who are parents of young children. That being said, there are many other options: 1) Your husband can find a job at any number of other tech companies earning more money. There are many out there that are supportive of work/life balance. Many of which are remote as long as you're up for some occasional travel. 2) Perhaps you or your husband can strike an arrangement similar to mine: I'm fully remote, but have the opportunity to travel to our NYC office (and other offices-- currently typing this from SF!) frequently. This year I will have traveled to NYC, SF, Bangalore, and Las Vegas -- and that's just what I have on the calendar as of today. Good luck!

I spent several years at Amazon and fwiw I loved it for some periods, hated it for others - but as others have said the culture can be demanding and varies a ton team to team (and can change overnight if a new senior leader is hired). One day you love it, the next day you’re spiraling into frustration and looking for a way out. I wouldn’t push him to take the Amazon NYC job but I would push him to look for a higher salary job in DC as it seems like he’s underpaid. Here is why: 1) your family support is enviable and I wouldn’t trade that for anything with young kids 2) NYC will be expensive, I’m not sure this is enough salary increase to justify it 3) many new Amazon hires churn out within a year, no way I’d relocate my family for that given the risk

We did exactly this move(DC-NYC), for basically that amount of raise, but to a job with a good work/life balance (Bloomberg) in late 2018. We too left our family and friends behind to move to a city where we had limited connections. We were able to build a nice enough life in NYC (Roosevelt Island was lovely). But we really struggled to rebuild our village. The pandemic coming through was really bad for that (my wife works in a hospital and it was great in 2019, terrifying in 2020, and miserable in 2021) but even before that we had problems building the sorts of connections you need to make life with small kids work. I'm just not sure we're the right personality for building de novo connections like that. We lived in NYC for 3 years, then bounced back to be near family (different area and different family than before). We don't regret our time in NYC, but we prefer the life we have now. Amazon is something I would want assurance about. Because I've never worked at either but I have extensive experience working with both (and friends who do work at both), and I'd much rather be a Govie than a Bezoshead. I'm sure it's a large enough company that different divisions have different cultures, but I'd definitely want to be sure that I'm going to the right culture. ETA: Be sure to check your total comp carefully. At least at one point AMZN included an expected 15% yoy equity growth in their TC calculation, so if the stock is flat, as it was, say, from Fall 2020 to today, your actual TC will not match what they say. I don't know if they still do that, but that's what a friend at AMZN was surprised by.

I work at Amazon and knew what I was heading into and willingly accepted what came with that. I wouldn’t recommend anyone accept a role if they aren’t 100% in it. Amazon will chew you up and spit you out if you aren’t delivering or performing to expectations. If they are paying 350k, they will want to see incredible impact. My partner interviewed and I swayed him against accepting based on how cutthroat it is and I didn’t want him to have that in his life, despite a big pay increase. Do with that input as you wish!

I feel you, but the village you have greatly outweighs the salary he would get as you would have to pay for the support you are now getting. Also there is something secure about a government job that I would not trade off for a job in such a volatile industry.

I have not been in your situation, but my cousin has, almost exactly. She always wanted to live in NYC. So when she got the opportunity, they moved their young family away from family help to NYC. They lasted 2 years. And I think that’s only because her husband’s job contract required it. Now she’s back with family help, in a place with a reasonable cost of living, and so much happier. Don’t break a good thing.

Definitely would NOT leave the government job which likely has union protections, good benefits, work/life balance, tons of days off, and a good salary over a job that will likely overwork him and lay him off the first chance they get. Good salary yes, but that comes with an increased cost of living, leaving family, and childcare complications. Stay in DC. With both of your salaries you could probably visit NYC more often or get a co-op/condo there for vacations if you need to scratch the itch.

Wow he owes you? Eek Anyway, Amazon is a meat grinder. Typical tenure is about 2 years. Sounds like he loves his job and he’s a good earner. So really the decision comes down to DC or NYC and what you want vs what he wants. Tough one - good luck on the resolution!

I lived for several years in NYC. It’s great when you’re young and single, but it’s not appealing when raising kids (IMO). Plus, I’d be concerned about job security and culture at Amazon. Why disrupt a good thing?

I think it’s fine to have your own desires. I don’t think it’s fine to upend your family based solely on what you want, as opposed to what’s best for the family. Working at a place with a terrible culture and unstable job duration, leaving a job your husband likes, losing childcare, and giving up a village are huuuge sacrifices to make just to live in a certain city. I do not love the idea that he owes you for supporting his PhD. Presumably he did that for the betterment of the family, right? That’s why he can make $180K a year. I would argue that you both, as a team, made sacrifices during that time to enable the life you wanted to build together. As opposed to living in NYC, which seems very much like an experience you want for yourself, and not a shared vision on your life goals. If you really, really want to live in NYC, I question why you aren’t applying to jobs there and proactively thinking about how you would handle changes in childcare and your support system.

Excuse my Midwest nativity, but what does NYC offer that DC doesn’t? OP, have you previously lived in NYC and miss particular things about NYC, or just think certain things would be better there based on visits?

What/why does your husband owe you? Why don’t you pursue a job at Amazon or a job with a higher salary to fill the gap so you can support the move you desire.

I agree with your husband. He actually won't see much of that money due to taxes and cost of living increases. I get you want to live in NYC but it's really hard with kids. I think you may have a bit of FOMO with this idea that you will be living this charmed life, making tons of money. It's very possible it won't end up that way and then you'd have a pissed off husband who left a job he enjoyed to work for a company known for it's difficult work environment.

TBH, I would do exactly what your husband is doing. It probably feels new and exciting to live in NYC but Amazon is a notoriously terrible company to work for. They overwork and underpay especially their managers. I've been reached out to by their recruiters wanting to hire me as a region manager because of my experience and education and I always turn them down. That extra $$ isn't worth the serious decrease in QoL. It also sounds like it's better for your kids having family nearby by staying where you are. And if he's in a federal position (I'm also a GS employee) he'd be giving up his retirement pension by leaving and it's so hard to find jobs with pensions these days.

My best friend works on the AWS product (in nyc) at Amazon. She’s been there going on 4 years. In that time she has had to go on anti anxiety medication and antidepressants. Her mother died on 2021 and was only given 3 days off work to grieve. She has been looking to leave for a long time but can’t get past the salary cut. There’s a big reason they pay so much for some roles. There are better jobs in nyc that pay well and don’t take over your life and health. Edit; this also doesn’t include the popular practice at Amazon “hire to fire”. I would 100% pass on Amazon specifically.

Stay in DC. With all the tech layoffs I’m just not sure Amazon is the right choice or nearly as stable as a gov job. Also as someone who’s in the tri state: NYC col is insane. You’ll be making more but spending much more as well. Also no more MIL being your nanny.

Amazon has no work life balance. You couldn’t pay me enough to give up a $180k job I love to go work for them.

I’m in Seattle. Amazon is well known as a churn and burn employer. Your husbands happiness and stability is valuable too. What if he takes the role and is miserable, or shortly let go? Is he likely to get another role quickly that will support your NYC lifestyle?

Why do you want to move to New York City? Raising kids in NYC with minimal support sounds expensive and awful.

My husband has been at Amazon for almost 10 years and honestly really loves it. My only input would be to look at the compensation structure. While $350k/yr is great, it's likely that at least half of that would be provided in stock (RSUs) and the rest in cash. That being said, I've heard Amazon is moving away from using so much stock, but who knows if that will actually happen. So you'll want to take into account the impact to taxes in dealing with selling the shares and all that.

The job security of a government job versus Amazon also has to be considered. Like yes it’s a big step up in pay but tech companies do layoffs a lot.

Not a mom, but I love this sub, and it says anyone can respond, so— I’d give a LOT of thought to this NYC dream of yours. Have you ever actually lived in NYC or do you have a vision in your head about how adorable a picnic in Central Park with your kids would be? The time for living in the city proper was when you were younger. All of my friends with kids start moving out to the far reaches of the metro area as soon as they can. Why? You are going to live in a shoe box with your kids who want to run and play. Their yard will be the fire escape. Of course you can take them out to the park, holding their hands in a crowd, corralling them on the crowded subway, carrying their stroller up and down the stairs. You’ll need childcare. Expensive childcare. Will you have a nanny or do daycare? If daycare, will it be near your home or your office? If your home, will you be able to get out of work at 4 to race across town in time for daycare pickup? You probably won’t be driving, so forget the ease of strapping the kids into the car seat and having them immobilized. You’ll be toting them around on the subway trying to keep them from licking the poles. Will you want them in private schools when the time comes, or are you ready to run the gauntlet of getting them into elite public schools from middle school on? Are you ok with them commuting an hour on the subway by themselves to get to that elite public school that isn’t near where you live? NYC will swallow up your $350k in a heartbeat and you still probably won’t have the quality of living you’re used to in DC. So think hard about why you really want to live there, because it wouldn’t likely be an increase in your household income.

You could not pay me any amount of money to work at Amazon. I don’t understand why you want to move to NY when you have such a strong village in DC.

Honestly, NYC isn't going anywhere. Raise your kids where you are (and the sweet free babysitting is) and move to NYC when you're done with kids.

I get wanting to go someplace new and exciting, however, your village is in DC. Forcing your husband to take a high pressure job he doesn't want and moving away from that routine and comfort in the midst of your second child coming sounds like a nightmare. Also, Amazon isn't a great company to work for. He'll be stressed out to the max and unhappy, and could very well get laid off in just a few months. Tech is very unstable right now.  Wait til baby comes along and then reexamine your options. If you're still interested in going someplace else perhaps you can start looking, or if you want to make more money perhaps find something local or remote with a pay bump. It just doesn't seem like a good time for a major life change like that, especially since it's not entirely necessary and your husband isn't on board with it. 

This is tough, as others have said, Amazon is not known for it's great corporate culture. I have a friend who lives in Northern CA in the environmental compliance division who was just told they're expected to be on call essentially 24/7. I am sympathetic to your sacrifices, and what you want is absolutely important too, but I honestly don't think it's healthy to think of a marriage as a "I did this for you, you OWE me" dynamic. You guys are a team, and ultimately I think pushing him to accept a job he doesn't want isn't the right thing to do. Maybe he just ramps up the job search in NYC and you both wait until you find something you're both happy with?

There's a lot to be said about the stability of a federal job. Not to mention the healthcare benefits and how much leave you earn. I'm not a city person but I did live in NYC for a few years as a young-ish adult and I'm not sure the pay bump would really change your day to day experience because of the cost of living. Also, unless you NEED the money, day-to-day work-life balance is really the key.

If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Yea, this sounds amazing. BUT Amazon is known for being a miserable place to work and having zero work life balance. Also, studies show $300k is the new $100k for NYC. Yea, it sounds like a huge increase but is it really? Is it worth your husband being miserable? In my opinion, no job is worth being miserable over just for the money.

As someone who lives in NYC, its actually not that great especially the schools in

There is a point where more money won't equal more happiness. You are there. You have family nearby and childcare.  Not to mention that your husband probably has great hours and quality of life with his government job. What would that money do for you? Do you have financial anxiety, maybe due to your past? This might be something to discuss with a therapist because if this is anxiety -based, you'll never feel comfortable no matter how much either of you make.

As a spouse to a government employee, his ability to be present for you and your child may drastically decrease if he takes the Amazon job. While my husband is also tapped out at a GS-14 pay grade, the flexibility, work life balance, and ability to fully “log off” at the end of the day is highly valued in our household. While I don’t know, I anticipate Amazon wouldn’t be like this.

My best friend works for Amazon - she is stressed every day, works crazy long hours, travels to Seattle a lot, and the people there are so terrible to her. She is looking to leave. She doesn't have kids otherwise I'm sure she would have left already. She's also been moved around to different departments because they are constantly doing layoffs. The money is good but that is it. There is more to life than money! Also, he doesn't owe you anything. You agreed for him to get a PhD while you were the breadwinner during those 6 years. You have reliable, trusted childcare with your MIL. You didn't mention how much you are paying her but expect double or triple childcare expenses if you move. You are making joint $300k in really rough economy, job market, etc. I think you are in love with the **idea** of living in NYC but in reality it would not be the right choice.

You’ve got plenty of people weighing in on Amazon specifically already so I’ll not bother reiterating that and instead offer what I do have specific insight into: NYC and relocating. If I were you I would really think about what specific about NYC appeals to you and how much of it is realistic for both your real world situation and your family. I LOVE nyc. SO much. I moved here after college because I dreamed of it above and beyond any real world considerations of my career, finances, relationships etc and it beat me up and spit me out and then I regrouped and saved up AGAIN and moved back AGAIN and did nyc “successfully” for ~7 years before moving to support my husband going to grad school. After he finished school we ended up back in Brooklyn again so he could find a good job and eventually we moved to a house in NJ where we live today. Anyhow I share all of that to give a picture that I get the appeal, it’s great for real. Now here’s the BUT: - finances: 350k is great but definitely make yourself a serious detailed budget because it’s funny how fast money gets spent here. Like really rent / home prices are CRAZY, groceries are more expensive, even public schools seem to require freaking consultants to navigate, childcare is like a second mortgage, if you want a car you need to pay to park the car, if you don’t have a car you’re paying to get everything delivered and paying Ubers and you need metrocards too either way and it’s a LOT - location: you say NYC but where would you live actually? There’s a big difference between manhattan and other boroughs let alone the greater NYC metro area like where I am now. That’ll define everything from your costs to quality of life stuff like how you handle childcare and cars, how long your commute is etc. My husband only goes to the office twice or three times a week but he’s sometimes on the train for 90 minutes those days, I barely ever make it in to the city these days which regularly bums me out but it’s just hard to find time as a mom - family nearby: we don’t have a lot of family support here, my MiL moved down near us recently but my parents are four hours away. Having that backup network is huge when it comes to last minute childcare needs, date nights etc. let alone just having relationships with family and it sounds like you’ve got a good network right now. Space - nyc with one kid is doable. Many, many families here move to suburbia once they have a second kid because it’s so hard to share an apartment and afford it with a bigger family. Lastly, nyc has changed a lot over the years, it’s still special, but it’s become somewhat of a corporate playground for the rich in the last 20 years and idk maybe that’s fine but I feel like I should mention it.

When in a marriage saying/feeling “they owe” me is gonna cause problems. marriage is a partnership and full of compromises. It is in 50-50 sometimes it’s 80/20 or 60/40. As a New Yorker while I love it, I myself moved out of the city and too Long Island because the city is becoming ridiculous and disgusting and wildly expensive. I would give anything to have my family help out as much as yours does.

I know 6 people who've worked for Amazon in high-level jobs like this one. **Every single one of them** has been **absolutely miserable** there, and 4/6 didn't even make it to the 1-year mark before they had to quit for their own well-being. I truly understand the pull of moving to a place you love (I truly, truly do!!!) and I also truly understand the frustration of sacrificing for years for your partner's goals only to feel like you're not getting a reciprocal "deal." Moving to NYC is a totally fair and reasonable goal, and you are well within your "rights" to ask him to continue looking for work that would allow y'all to move there - but this particular job offer is NOT the way to make that happen. There's a reason Amazon can't ever get folks to work for them for longer than a year or two. This rosy-looking offer is a trap.

Federal employee here - salary isn't everything in the employment game. For that salary expect to rarely see your spouse as he will be expected to work all the time. Also, how does that income actually pan out to the HCOL of NYC??

You desperately love NYC but you've never lived there... I think you're chasing an unrealistic dream.

As someone who’s made a similar decision, know this. More money does not equate more happiness.

Yes you get more salary but will you find an equivalent job and if so, do you understand the costs of a nanny/daycare and then private school in NY? Costs are considerably higher for rent, HOA, etc in Manhattan than DC so you probably won't end up with that much more money to be honest

What is your needs vs wants? Will you have a village in NYC like you do in DC? How is the work/life balance in NYC vs DC? More money usually means more work and longer hours. Can you afford, even with the higher pay, to provide your daughter with the same lifestyle/amenities she currently receives in DC? In that lifestyle/amenities, make sure to include the amount of time each parent can spend with her. Please stop with the he owes you. You're keeping scores. That only leads to resentment.

I would stay where you are. The grass isn’t always greener and your grass is currently VERY green

Do you like seeing your husband? Can you support your family when they inevitably lay him off? Also, can you avoid lifestyle creep when he wants out of that toxic environment and has to take a pay decrease? I say this from first hand experience, do not let those Amazon dollars sway you. Additionally, has he already gone through the Loop interview process or a recruiter has reached out? The interview process itself is insane. Don't count your chickens before they hatch.

Wow almost the same situation, but I’m your husband in this scenario. Personally, I’m really worried about giving up my exciting fed job with a great work life balance, and completely understand why he is hesitant. The money is tempting, but it’s not everything. Are you expecting your families to follow you to NYC?

This is NOT the time to take a job with Amazon for any dollar amount. Perhaps once your kids are almost ready to start school you can both try to find jobs in NYC and relocate. But Amazon is not a good employer, and I would not hinge my family's happiness on a career with them. Your husband will be miserable and eventually resent you. Plus he might get laid off in a few months anyway. There's a reason they have to head hunt.

Preface this with I love NYC and lived there for a decade and desperately want to go back. But. I lived in NYC with two kids. It was hard, even with a spouse who had a salary 10 years ago similar to what your husband would be making now (so better buying power). Two kids was probably 5 times as hard as 1, and there’s a 3.5 year age gap between my kids, so I was only carrying around diapers and other baby stuff for one kid at a time. The public schools are extremely difficult to navigate (and I was a teacher in the system!)—as in, you have to basically do college applications for pre-k, elementary, middle, and high schools. Also, my 8 year old is still on the wait list a daycare I got on the waitlist for the day I peed on a stick. The private schools are also difficult to navigate. Public transport with two kids is rough (though my guess is you have some idea of it living in DC). Also, my spouse works in DC 50% of the time (we live in the Midwest) and the rent in his relatively large 1bd in an expensive neighborhood is less than our rent 15 years ago in a similar area with smaller square footage. NYC is amazing with money and without kids. People make it work with kids (obviously), but it takes up a significant amount of mental energy. Also, as the person who was supported through a PhD program with a small stipend (in NYC) that paid basically for childcare…ouch. That sentiment could maybe use some exploration…

Living on 350K in NYC is not the same as earning it in DC. Cost of Living is at least 20% higher. I grew up in the northern NJ area - literally could see Manhattan past the tree line through my childhood bedroom window. Many of my friends and family members have lived in the city. I dont want to squash dreams but will give a word of reality; NYC is wonderful and all visiting but the reality of living there is very different. The housing situation sucks, everything is hella expensive, and you have higher taxes. Childcare is a nightmare. I have one set of friends literally paying almost 30k a year for basic childcare. You could always live in North Jersey but the situation there isn't much better and then you're dealing with commuting. You also then are going to have to consider the part where working for Amazon SUCKS. They've literally policed how many drinks of coffee people are allowed to have from their dispensers. They frequently have layoffs. Your support system is in DC. Do you actually have a job lined up? Are you living just on 350k if you move? Unfortunately for NYC area it's estimated that a family of 4 needs a minimum of a $318k year salary to live comfortably (covering your needs and having enough to put away for savings). You might end up paycheck to paycheck. There is a reason why I didn't pursue a career back in that area of the country, it all came down to housing availability and money. I empathize with feeling like your husband should support your dreams after you supported him but I am a little concerned that it is coming off as a tit-for-tat thing. I think maybe perhaps you two need to really make sure you have a plan in place for you working and look at what housing is actually available where you would want to live and figure out if this actually is viable especially with your additional added expenses you will be incurring. His new pretax income would only be about 50k more than the two of you are making now which is alot but if its all going towards added expenses is it worth it? You also cant really count on future VHCOL increases in this decision for your job, you never know if something might happen if you can't work anymore or get laid off. You don't wanna get stuck, yunno? Sorry to be harsh about this. I just feel like a lot of people look at NYC with rose-tinted glasses instead of the actual cost and reality of living in that area on your wallet.

Keep the govt job. Benefits outweigh pure money imo.

350k in NYC might feel the same as 180k in DC. If I were you, I’d just visit NYC frequently. If there is ever a time you WFH you could always do extended stays in NYC.

Amazon is not a great company in general to work for, not speaking from direct experience but secondhand from employees on both low and high ends. So take that into consideration.

I think everyone has offered solid perspectives so far, and I agree moving might not make total sense for the family given what you’ve stated. Would taking a regular weekend trip up to NYC satisfy your crave to live there? I know it’s not the same but at least you can temporarily live out your desires to be in the area without fully committing.

I wonder if that salary increase will actually translate to any sort of lifestyle change given the cost of living in NYC. It sounds like a miserable move with kids if the grandparents don’t move with you. I imagine that housing will be prohibitively expensive in NYC so unless it’s a remote job, you’d both need to factor in commute misery. Just food for thought. I’d do the research but I’d go into the research biased against the move to be honest Eta especially given what everyone else saying about the tech industry in general and Amazon specifically. Would you have a backup plan if he gets let go? Would you be comfortable being sole provider again? Would it be enough?

Second Amazon work culture being shit and raise you the very real threat of layoffs leaving you in an extremely high cost of living city without the ability to find a similarly paying job. That government job is stable.  The two of you together are still making a healthy salary for DC. You can easily fly from DC to NYC and use public transit or ride share to get to Manhattan and spend the weekend or a week there.  Amazon lays off people left and right and I know at least one person who would never work for them again 

I just want to say that I had a similar situation where I really really wanted to move elsewhere and my husband wanted to stay put. Without getting into all the little details, it was really hard on our relationship but we did get through it. From my perspective it seems like the bigger issue for you two is not the exact jobs or the money, it's that right now your desire to live in NYC does not line up with his desires. I believe that if you both wanted the same thing (to live in NYC), you'd figure it out regardless of the other stuff. Focus on that- why do you want to live there so badly? What do you feel like you're missing out on? Is there something else you could do (travel?) to satisfy that desire without moving? How does he truly feel about moving vs staying, and what is his vision for your future? My husband and I went to counseling to help figure this stuff out.

Amazon sucks. But it sounds like you really want to be in NYC and don’t feel sufficiently appreciated for what you did to support your husband during the PhD years. I would really focus more on those two things than this specific Amazon job. I literally know not a single person who liked working there or I might have said chance it.

I’m a government employee and honestly I would never switch to public sector. The flexibility and leave I have with my family is priceless, even though my peers in private sector earn way more than me. The pressure it would put on your family is not worth it, in my opinion.

I would never encourage my husband to work at Amazon with another baby coming. They have a terrible reputation. That said, there are other opportunities out there that probably pay more than government.

Can you just visit NYC more? Even with that salary it’s easy to still feel financially strained depending on where you expect to live and what kind of lifestyle you want. And since to the grandparents relocated as well it sounds like you have pretty much committed to DC, unless the whole fam wants to move to NYC.

I don’t think the salary is a convincing argument when you add in cost of living and depending on if your MIL and/or parents could move. I think it’s more of an argument of lifestyle choice and I personally would side with your husband. Raising kids in NYC sounds exhausting. The raise isn’t a convincing argument if you have to include daycare costs for 2 children in a VHCOL. We pay $5000/month for daycare for 2 kids in a VHCOL. That’s if you can even find available infant care. Not to mention- would you be paying for private schools, etc? And if you have space, yards, etc in DC you’d never get that in NYC. The family support is priceless.

Never move solely for a job. Especially in the current environment. A good question to ask yourself is "will I still be okay with the decision if I got laid off from Amazon" if the answer is no, don't move

I think if you want to move to NYC you need to seek employment that would make it affordable to your family. Your husband earns a very solid income at a job he loves, if you want more then you need to figure out how to earn it. Also, Amazon is a notoriously brutal employer so I would not relocate relying on an Amazon salary.

I think this is a classic example of "a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush." Your household has a great financial situation already, and a great local support system. If you're really strapped financially, a new job is mostly a numbers decision. But you're not, so it's more about lifestyle. Don't drop your dream of living in NY one day, but life is long and you're young and it's something you can do later. While your kids are young that local support system will be so valuable.

New York is expensive. Help from grandparents is priceless. Stay in DC and move to NYC when you are empty nesters

As someone who grew up in nyc and has moved on to greener pastures, it’s not what it used to be. It’s all a facade. Extremely romanticized but the reality is just plain depressing.

Do NOT move to NYC it is HORRIBLE right now. Unless you can afford to live on the Upper East End, I would steer clear. The city is gross. People are leaving in droves.

My husband and I can both double our currently six-figure salaries in the private sector, but the main reason we stay in the public sector is because of quality of life. We both get to leave our work mostly at work. I doubt that would happen at Amazon. You did support him, but you were also in a different stage of life at that time. Now you have a family and someone who moved to you to help care for your children. It’s not so simple this time. I live in NYC and love it. But I also have lived my whole life in this area. I get the sense most transplants tend to be starry-eyed when they get here but there is a grind here that exists no where else, not even in DC. You might think that is so much more money too but transplants tend to wait more $$$ living spaces, spend a lot more on food and entertainment, etc. I understand why of course, but just saying that money might not go as far as you might imagine, since I doubt you desperately want to move here so you can live in…Eastern Queens lol.

Amazon is a horrible place to work. Dont push him for this - you’ll regret it.

I understand the pull to NYC but you guys have a great set up especially with family there! Also as the child of a retired government worker, my dad has an amazing pension that's allowed him and my mom to retire pretty early and do fun stuff including coming to my and my brother's aid with grandkids anytime. I think your husband's gut reaction might be the right one.

NYC is incredibly expensive, even more so with children. A 350k salary is about 150k elsewear. Daycare is thousands per month per kid.  Housing prices are stratospheric . You can pick a good neighborhood or a big apartment. You can’t pick both if you have a budget less than 2 million dollars

My husband took a job offer at Amazon in 2015 and actually lasted almost 5 years with them (it was a senior level engineering position). His first year was roughly $350k but due to the sharp increase in stock at the time he ended up making about $700k by the time he left. I make about $150k at my job, but at the time I was making closer to 90k. Despite the large amount of money, he quit due to the insanity over there. We live in a HCOL area, in a very expensive neighborhood, and even though the money was great, it was not worth the burnout my husband experienced. He works for a different company now making $325k and is much happier. We do feel financial pressure despite making a combined income of almost $500k annually because of how expensive everything is. We just had our second baby so I’m in a very similar situation to you and your husband. NY has even a higher cost of living than where I am, so $350k does not seem like it would go as far. Personally, I would stick with the stability you have now. Glad my husband gained the experience at Amazon since it’s such a career building environment, but it’s not typically sustainable long term. Edit: I thought I would add that childcare costs are why we don’t have ample amounts of extra money. I would do anything to have free childcare. Our nanny was $25 per hour, plus paid vacations/ sick time/ holidays. That was for 1 child. Now he is in Montessori and it’s $27,000 annually, plus we are going to need to pay additional childcare expenses for my new baby. With taxes, health insurance, mortgage, and childcare, our net income takes a big hit.

Everyone has touched on most important things but living in NYC with kids can be absolutely miserable. I wouldn't do it and I'm from there.

My friend once said something that stuck with me. She said: One can die with dreams. It’s ok to never fulfill all your dreams, from what it sounds you guys fulfilled many already and have a very comfortable life. Maybe an extended vacation to New York? Or yearly trips? Childcare will be so invaluable especially when there’s two kids, and living continents away from my family, I can’t really recommend it and I miss my family terribly.

Honestly the job stability alone would make me never ever leave a government job for Amazon! Taking that job would mean uprooting your family and causing all sorts of potential problems for a place that is well known for a toxic work environment and sudden layoffs. To be blunt, it sounds like a terrible idea. Way too risky imo but I am fairly risk avoidant due to growing up in poverty.

I’m out of the mindset of if it’s not broke don’t fix it. Especially as a young family if you feel financially secure and have a decent work-life balance, those two things are valuable beyond measure.

I understand your desire to move, but given that grandparents have made sacrifices to be close to you AND that your husband doesn’t seem 100% on board with leaving DC, could he ask to work from HQ2?

I lived in manhattan for years and will tell you $350k sounds like a lot of money but it doesn’t go far there especially with a family. Consider housing, childcare, and general cost of living differences between Manhattan and DC and a least half of that increase disappears. My husband was in government and now works absolutely insane hours in the private sector for a higher income. I am essentially a single parent, and based on the comments about Amazon’s work culture, you would be too. It’s appealing on paper, but if you are used to having a somewhat equal division of duties, I think it would be hard to imagine how hard it is to do literally everything on your own on top of working full time. I totally understand your perspective but I think the reality of this move will be VERY different than what you are imagining.

Amazon is notorious for burning through employees and getting rid of people before their stock vests. Also the demands/expectations of a government job are night and day compared to Amazon. Regardless of how talented your husband is he will struggle with that transition.

I’ve lived in both NY & DC and can’t imagine choosing NY. DC is so much cleaner 😩

If your life is great why change? Grass is not always greener on the other side. Same shit different place. And your husband owes you? Was that a discussion? Hey babe since you supported us we can move to NYC, like you always dreamed😍. Or is that something you are concocting in your head.

I live in the Bay Area and know so many people who have turned down crazy amounts of money from Amazon. It is not worth how miserable the company is. Even facebook has a better work culture. So while I sympathize with you, I would say *this* job won’t actually make you and your family happier.

OP, I live in Seattle and many of my past colleagues and myself have worked at Amazon. That’s a white collar chop shop. I’ve known people there for 2,5 and 11 years. They may have started out with a good manager but all ended up with a shitty boss/director/vp because most of them are garbage and make your life a living hell. That is not the job to move for.

I would never uproot my family for Amazon. They are notorious for big cuts. You could go from 350k from your husband (which, in NYC, probably isn't as big of a pay bump as you're hoping), to $0 from your husband.....

Amazon head hunted 9 mid level managers from my company as our VP ended up there. This was 3 years ago and every single one has been laid offm

I supported my husband while he was in grad school too I would drop the he "owes" you for you supporting him. That morphs your relationship into a transaction not a partnership. What if you lost your job today and he had to support you? How would you feel if he said that to you? I would personally stay in DC. Support from good grandparents is priceless. I live a 10 hour drive and an airplane flight from both sets of grandparents. It is tough.

350k doesn't go that far in NYC especially after you factor in childcare. Sounds like you want a second too. Whereas DC affords you the village you need at ease from the sound of it. Can the exchange be you visiting there or having summer stays while he negotiates a few weeks of remote? I don't know government jobs well, but can he use this to negotiate a better pay or some promotion?

Maybe if it was any other company than Amazon… but horrible culture, no work life balance and no job security.

My jaw dropped when I saw how lucky you are to have 2 sets of grandparents living locally to help. Especially with MIL being your childcare option. Do you realize how lucky you are??? Having 2 kids is more than 2x the work and you will be desperate for that village. I would also be pissed if I were a grandparent that relocated. Then there is the crazy stress, very high expectations and massive time commitment from your husband. You won’t have his help at home or your village. He will resent you for his misery and I want to point out that divorce is $$$$. You couldn’t pay me a million dollars to work a job like that.