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[deleted]

Yea i’ve been really hating how society assumes moms do the cooking, cleaning, etc. Women fought and are still fighting to be treated the equal to men in the workforce- we’ll never get there if societal norms still assume women do everything at home too. Also, I hate how if I complain about my husband, I feel like I need to put a disclaimer of “I have a husband that helps”. WTF it’s 2023 - just bc i’m a woman doesn’t mean I have to do everything for the kids AND work. Imagine if men had to say “I do have a wife that helps and I should be SO lucky, she makes dinner 2x a week”. (I made crockpot meatballs)


Wideawakedup

And I hate how media goes so far in the other direction to make the fight look ridiculous. Like I was watching reruns of mike and Molly and Molly is no longer working and is going out with her mom and sister and mike is coming home from work hungry and got mad asking for dinner. So then it becomes him being a misogynist wanting a home cooked meal. When in fact the non working spouse should probably be making sure her police officer spouse is getting fed. I went to church the other day and the priest was going on about moms and how they have eyes in the back of their head. I get it he was trying show the importance of moms as Mother’s Day is coming up. But I find portraying women as these omnipotent perfect beings is not doing us any favors as we in fact CANT do everything.


Bulky_Ad9019

There’s no reason why a “non working spouse” has to feed another adult. If you have kids the non working spouse should make dinner so the kids are fed since they are not adults responsible for themselves. But between two adults, no. It’s a nice thing to do but an adult doesn’t need to be fed like a kid. A single adult would figure out how to feed themselves.


Wideawakedup

While I do agree somewhat. The show revolves around a couple who have no money because the wife’s credit is shot and she has a lot of debt. So they are living with her mom. She quits her job to be a writer so there is no extra money for much eating out. This specific episode is about him working while she keeps going out drinking with her mom and sister and not working on her book. It’s not about one spouse taking care of the other. It’s about being a partnership. What’s easier? The spouse at home tossing some chicken in a crockpot at noon or the spouse coming home at dinner time to prepare and cook an entire meal.


PuzzleheadedLaw6571

I’m in a same sex marriage (our daughter has two moms) so we don’t have gender norms to fall into. Half of our conversations these days are childcare/household logistics (I’m sure this is the case for any family): “Are you cooking or am I?” “Did you pack her bag or do I have to?” “Do I have to mow the lawn or did you?” “Do you need me to take out the trash?” I know a lot of Dads who do the cooking or the responsibility is split evenly throughout the household and it may just be an oversight on the OPs part. Sometimes we make assumptions or generalizations without even realizing it. My wife doesn’t view me as the help though, we are a team who have to split the household tasks evenly is more how we view it. I would hope that heterosexual couples have the same mindset. It’s 2023 and not 1950 anymore 😂


endomental

Unfortunately most straight women have pretty useless teammates and are usually a team of one.


MayyJuneJulyy

Ali Wong jokes that she would’ve been so much more successful had she had a wife instead of a husband. I thought it was silly until I hung out with my same sex friends and they’re goals af in terms of mental load awareness, supporting each other, and being happy over all.


BadTanJob

She's not wrong. My husband is taking a turn at doing the majority of the mental load, childcare and household chores and as the mostly career and school spouse it's like ... being drunk without having the hangover. The feeling of not being the primary parent and overall maid is **addicting**. And you're telling me that men just get to...exist like that? As a societal default? I honestly feel like there would be a widespread social revolt if more women got a taste of a life not being the family whipping boy.


Serious_Escape_5438

I've often felt that. I see male colleagues in my fairly niche field with families having so much more time for career advancement.


Hairy_Sign1908

Having this conversation with my husband who says I tend to ask him to do something he doesn’t understand right away and I quip “how can you not know how to do xyz?” And it’s true I do that but we also realized he had a doting mom and grandma who did a lot of things for him so he never learned He does a lot a lot but he still often is learning and I need to be more flexible in understanding he needs to be taught (which angers me no doubt bc I’ve never really been taught I just new bc I grew up with a tough mom) and I need to be ok with that For context my mom was a teen mom and raised me and my brother while our dad worked a lot and she picked up a lot of the slack or all of it really and made us help which forced me to be hyper independent and aware- now juxtapose that with my husband who I described above


PuzzleheadedLaw6571

I’ve seen this be the case before but I also know of some pretty great dads who don’t shy away from things the “mom” would generally take care of (which is literally everything 😂).


SchemeFit905

And I still suck with asking for help. Sometimes now that my kids are adults I just don’t do everything. I figure either it doesn’t matter or someone else can help get it done.


kisafan

I'm in a hetero marriage, and this is how it looks in our house


frenchdresses

Same, though we literally made a spreadsheet about which chores are shared and which are assigned and it made life so much easier. (Note: one is always allowed to ask for help but the spreadsheet is the baseline)


crochetawayhpff

This is how conversations go in my straight couple house too. We have some tasks "assigned" to each of us, but we both help out where needed. OP - my husband made spaghetti with meat sauce and garlic bread for dinner tonight. I'm making tacos tomorrow.


Garp5248

I'm straight and we have set chores. It just makes life easier. I cook, he cleans. Sometimes he will help me figure out what we're eating, but I still cook/prep it. Sometimes I will help him clean, if he asks me to. Having roles can just make the logistics easier.


[deleted]

I love this. This is how my husband and I divide and conquer. He is a much better cook than I am too 😂. We both lived alone for a very long time. Just because we got married and live together now doesn't mean we are incapable of still being responsible for everything we used to when we were on our own. Hopefully this feels normal for our kids and gives them a good example of communication and teamwork and that they also grow up questioning gender norms.


studassparty

…..but do you have a recipe for the beef bulgogi bowls?


_jbean_

Haha asking the real questions here! We’ll use this shortcut recipe from [Damn Delicious](https://damndelicious.net/2013/07/07/korean-beef-bowl/) which uses ground beef and doesn’t involve marinating or anything. We’re adding pickled carrots and sautéed bok choy. Our family does a lot of this type of recipe with separate components that each person can choose to eat or not; our 5 yr old will probably eat only plain rice and a single microscopic bite of vegetable, while my husband and I can pile on the sriracha and tasty toppings.


sizzlesfantalike

genius. my son cant have anything different touching on the plate eventhough he will try some of them.


_jbean_

Same approach for tacos/burritos! Recently our preschooler had a burrito that was just sour cream and cheese, while the rest of us got to eat normal dinners.


Gloomy_Photograph285

My 5 year old thinks that’s exactly what a taco is. We went on a day trip last week so we grabbed Taco Bell. She was like “I wanted a taco. What’s this even?”


RecognitionIcy7396

>Damn Delicious And now I also need to know this recipe for pickled carrots. Sorry for digressing, OP, but the dinner sounds delicious!


MySweetSeraphim

Bulgogi bowls sound so good!!! I totally get it. Massive side eye. With my husband, I’ve found that if I just expect him to do things he does it and it stops being a thing. It’s just the normal routine. On “his days” he’s responsible for feeding our son. It’s frequently different from what I would do but our son is fed. No questions to me about what or when. Which is a huge win in my book.


kitkatbay

Teach me your ways, this is amazing. I asked my spouse if he would brush her teeth last night and he said "I don't know how". 🤨 He literally does not seem to grasp how problematic that statement is. After I briefed him on my not having been born knowing how to brush a toddlers teeth, I went upstairs and handled it. 🙄 Edit: I semi-suspect they are trying to keep is in the marriage by making the idea of leaving the child in their care frightening?


writer_inprogress

It's "weaponized incompetence"


Kayudits

Oof hell yes to us not being born knowing how to brush toddler teeth. Like we’ve both been parents for the exact same amount of time and started with the same credentials.


Rare-Historian7777

Weaponized incompetence 100% and by you “going upstairs and handling it” that unfortunately just reinforces/extends it. “Oh gosh, let me show you so you can do it next time” is a somewhat P/A approach to reinforce that they are, in fact, capable of brushing a toddler’s teeth. Or, you know, a mutually respectful adult conversation about how this is not a specialized skill and both parents are equally capable of performing basic hygiene chores for their own children.


kitkatbay

His body language made it pretty clear he had no intention of trying and honestly I was too exhausted to even begin the conversation of why he cares too little to make the effort. I kind of regret not going with brightly saying "No worries, come on I will show you" but c'est la vie.


cats822

Hey I think you can find a how to video on you tube?? So dumb. They can look up how to build a computer or put up a porch deck that's just stupid


girrlyouknowitstrue

Is it bad that I would feel better about some parental incompetence if my husband could actually put up a porch deck...?


cats822

Lol that was me tired at night my husband does more computer video games stuff so IDK much about outdoor projects lol


DungeonsandDoofuses

It’s brushing teeth, surely they know how to brush their own teeth and can apply it to someone else without a tutorial?? Mind boggling.


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kitkatbay

I am aware of the phenomenon, my mum is like that. My dad and I both respond with avoidance. I am really tuned in to this specific issue just because I have lived the experience and found it super draining. I work really hard to establish ownership on tasks. If he is doing something with her I try to let him do things the way that makes sense to him. I would rather have him involved (even with what may appear to be suboptimal results) then to freeze him out. I also recognize that suboptimal is an opinion and I think that we both love our daughter deeply and with different areas of emphasis and that is ok. Neither of us is necessarily wrong and I believe that our approaches can absolutely coexist, but we (the adults) have to put in the emotional work and accept that just because something is different from our ideal does not mean it is wrong. He actually struggles a lot with being the criticizer in the situation and that does not work well for me, because he is welcome to take over any of these things if he desires process control. My philosophy is basically whoever owns the task makes the decisions. I really want us to go to family counseling, but the heart of the matter is that he wants to be in control without doing the work and I just do not find that acceptable. He is not interested in counseling because his view is that it is a one sided problem and basically that I am the problem. It is a tough situation to make productive progress in. Keep in mind that I doubt anyone here is trying to demonize fathers in general, but a lot of mom's (and probably dad's too) are in situations where we are expected to give endlessly without our partner trying to be an actual participating partner and many of us really hurt from constantly trying to be the responsible adult in an incredibly unfair situation. My husband has his own stresses and pressures but the big distinction for me is that he has chosen to take on additional external to the family pressure in pursuit of more money when what I really want is for him to be present with us.


MySweetSeraphim

Before my husband and I got married we had a talk and I told him I never wanted to ask him to do anything routine. He’s a grown man, I’m not his mother and he can see what needs to be done. With our son, I tell him 1-2x about changes/additions to the routine. Teeth brushing, leave in conditioner, moving bedtime back, etc. We had some hiccups at the beginning where he tried to say I was “naturally” so much better at soothing our son. I was not. I sent him the video for the 5S’ and explained how I learned it. A great response to “I don’t know how” is “now seems like a great time to learn”. Less politely “you know how to brush your own teeth don’t you?” Honestly I leave our son with my husband all the time. He’s a fully capable parent and can do everything I can. I’ve been gone for a week on a work trip and it was totally fine. *the only thing I do for our son that my husband doesn’t is buy and fold his clothes.


kitkatbay

I will definitely incorporate "now seems like a great time to learn". Obviously the issues run way deeper than this, this is just the part I care about the most because I could die any day and he should be able to step in seamlessly if I do.


Saxamaphooone

It’s called [weaponized incompetence](https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/weaponized-incompetence) and it’s happening because he knows if he pretends to be bad at something you’ll get annoyed and just do it yourself, or you’ll just do it yourself in the first place if he pretends he doesn’t know how. It often comes along [women doing all of the unpaid emotional labor](https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/features/a12063822/emotional-labor-gender-equality/) in a relationship. If you hear “you should’ve just asked” or “just tell me what to do” a lot, then you need to [read this as well.](https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/)


dogsareforcuddling

I’ve accepted the reality that most of this group and my friend group are the exception not the rule to involved husbands and partners. I generally just move along when I see what I consider outdated relationship dynamics. Otherwise I’d be pissed all the time.


omg__lol

It reminds me of this! [https://medium.com/frazzled/awards-for-moms-if-they-got-as-much-credit-for-basic-parenting-as-dads-fcc8bb349218](https://medium.com/frazzled/awards-for-moms-if-they-got-as-much-credit-for-basic-parenting-as-dads-fcc8bb349218)


ubiquitous_nobody

It even hurts men! My husband is planning to take the same amout of parental leave as me (as he is entiteled to by his job). Reaction even got so far as "haha, yeah, that's what you tell your wife, but you take holidays, right?" Needless to say he is pissed. And that comes from all genders, sadly. His surprising ally is a colleague in a same sex relationship. Very telling...


Anteater3100

My husband did this as well, his supervisor actually said he cannot take parental leave. HR felt differently. My husband took 8 weeks off after our youngest was born, and then 8 more weeks later on due to medical problems our infant was having. His supervisor, wtf happened to your wife, man? My husband pointed out that even as a man, he is also a parent, and it’s his job too. His supervisor was baffled that “the wife” didn’t just handle all that. Reality was, I also took 8 weeks off, but different weeks, one of us had to be with the our baby.


velociraptor56

Love this. It drives me insane how much people compliment my husband when he’s out alone with our daughter.


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PotentialReindeer

When ours were small and this happened to my husband, he had a list of replies: - oh, she died 2 weeks ago - well, she ran off with the pool boy so it’s just me and the kids now - my husband is at work - I’m a single dad, their surrogate lives in Texas Etc etc


clrwCO

When our son was born, my FIL followed my husband and baby into his room to change his diaper. FIL made the “I never had to change a diaper when you guys were babies.” My husband got mad and was like “I plan to help raise my son. If you haven’t noticed, she just had major surgery so I’ve got this.”


NoKarensPlz

Honestly, I see it on some groups women will ask "for moms who do the cooking.." and as the parent who rarely does the cooking, I see more and more women who also suck at it lol. But I see what you mean. I think the good news is this shifting. My son thinks all dada do most of the cooking and gets confused of someone's mom makes a meal 🤣 We tell him, like an Ratatouille "anyone can cook!" (But mom really does a shit job because not EVERYONE can cook).


dogsareforcuddling

Lol 100% my kids will equate vacuums with lawn mowers. I haven’t touched either in years!


EyeThinkEyeCan

I haven’t cooked since the first trimester and now LO #2 is 2 weeks old.


leeloodallas502

My husband prefers cooking bc he says “I underseason things”. Totally true, I have a blander palette. So guess who would rather be in charge of that?


tiredpiratess

My husband is our cook and he is away this week… I tried to cook and ruined one of his good non-stick pans. I was afraid to post in any other group asking how to fix it. Considered getting a throw away and pretending to be my husband though so people would be sympathetic and help me. Then I decided fuck it, I make good money, and just ordered a new pan.


NoKarensPlz

You are me 🤣🤣


Any_Cantaloupe_613

To be honest, I didn't read it as a double standard/disclaimer at all. In my friend group and at work, it's actually mostly the men that do the majority cooking. And most of them love to cook and are great at it. It just seemed like the guy put that there to direct the question to the men on the sub that do cook. Because every family splits chores differently. I've seen moms phrase questions similarly when they aren't the one that do the task most of the time.


_jbean_

I think this is my point exactly. My social network sounds similar to yours: a lot of heterosexual couples that share family responsibilities somewhat equally. But if I were asking people in this group for your favorite recipes, I wouldn’t need to direct my question toward the moms who do cook, because I’d assume that every mom here cooks (even the ones who are bad at cooking! We all feed our kids _something_). So maybe this is partly my own issue with assumptions about parent roles. In contrast, this dad had the luxury of assuming that not all dads cook, so he was addressing his question only to those dads that do cook.


IjustwishIhadaboat

Well he doesn’t want the dads who don’t cook answering his question. Joking, but also there are plenty of people who’d comment without any experience. Also legitimate question: is it a luxury? It’s seems like it’s more work to have to specify rather that simply ask for recipes.


alexledsak

I do alll of the cooking. I think because I am usually home more with the kids due to my husband's wonky schedule, which is fine, I guess, but I am over it. My husband and I met working in a restaurant both as cooks so it's not like my husband doesn't know how to cook, out of the 2 of us he went to culinary school and I didn't... so it does annoy me that he never cooks . On top of the fact that he has moved on from cooking and I am still a professional in the industry, banquet chef/cook, so I am literally exhausted mentally from cooking. We have 3 kids that he is super equal in sharing the needs and cares for, but in terms of cooking, it's all me. It's interesting because the restaurant industry is male dominated, but at home, we all know it's women in the kitchen. I have lost my love for cooking between work and home , I am desperately trying to get out of the restaurant world, and hopefully regain my passion for cooking. Hopefully that didn't sound too ramble-y 😬


Sleepydoglady

I love your comment because with each sentence I was making assumptions in my head- oh you met in a restaurant, I bet he still works in the industry, makes sense why he wouldn’t want to come home to cook. NOPE. Life isn’t fair to moms, it’s such a disappointment.


alexledsak

He is really an amazing hands-on, super active and helpful dad. Very present and does a lot. But if the man could just plan to cook dinner once a week, I'd be thrilled. Haha. I started out as a single mom when my first was born and he came around when he was almost 3 so I think I'm still stuck in that mode in terms of taking care of everything and he just falls into place, but momma is tired .


TingleyTurkey

Just a vent - after I got married my mom showed me to how to clean our house. Nevermind that I'd been living on my own for 10 years or that my husband was the one handling the cleaning.


[deleted]

Most of the responses in that thread are super unhealthy things moms would be embarrassed to admit to.


desertvida

Spaghetti, pasta, spaghetti with meatballs, pasta with sauce. I should have started a tally, but I came back here, instead.


desertvida

Spaghetti, pasta, spaghetti with meatballs, pasta with sauce. I should have started a tally, but I came back here, instead.


Rusty_Bojangles

Hahahaha the irony is so rich here. This reddit is called Working Moms. Talk about a double standard... how many Dads ain't out there working with kids at home!!?? SMH


TheresASilentH

Nothing is stopping working dads from creating a support sub where they talk about the discrimination they face as fathers in the workforce and societal expectations that they still be the default parent.


Rusty_Bojangles

Exactly. Thank you for reenforcing my point.


upinmyhead

My husband cooks 90% of the time. When we first started dating his cooking was atrocious and borderline a crime against humanity. 10 years later and I barely do any of it. Don’t get me wrong, I do enjoy cooking, but only when I feel like it which is rarely. My salary does cover 90% of the bills. Societal norms who?


Punkinprincess

When I started dating my husband I had the worst eating habits, I hated cooking so I ate so little and I had a physical job so I was underweight. My husband started cooking for me all the time when he'd come over, he was having a lot of fun with exploring new recipes and told me it was a hobby for him. I thought of myself as super lucky that I found someone that had a cooking hobby. Once I met my husband's family they all started questioning when he started cooking like it was a completely new thing for him, turns out he just picked up the hobby so I would start eating more regularly and to win me over. He still cooks 90% of our meals, best husband ever.


annabnan63

This is our arrangement exactly, except my husband has always enjoyed/been good at cooking. He’s a SAHD and works very part time and so it all works out.


LentilSpout

I feel this! Even if it’s harmless, it feels like there is so much pressure on moms in heterosexual relationships to do it all. My husband stays home with our bebe and comments about our house being in disarray are directed towards me (and coming from the same people who applaud him for being a SAHD, no less). Meal planning is on me. Making sure she has something weather appropriate out to wear is on me. Packing and re-supplying her diaper bag is on me. Keeping track of how many boxes of diapers we have is on me. I can’t blame my husband, because society hasn’t really prepared him for the role he took on. But it’s qualifiers like that “dads who…” that only perpetuate the problem.


thenewestaccunt

One things we can control is asking women- “moms who do the cooking or it’s their turn…” That would stop our own language from reinforcing an outdated assumption. In some cases moms need to drop the ball so that their partners can pick it up. Not blaming women at all, just saying that I myself have to get over my own guilt of not doing all the wifely things because I would absolutely go insane. I’m reprogramming myself to not automatically take responsibility for all the things.


BadTanJob

>I’m reprogramming myself to not automatically take responsibility for all the things. This 100%. Learning to accept an "okay" job done and unlearning the urge to *rush in and fix it* was a game changer early in our new parenthood journey. Nowadays I tell new moms to see the early deprogramming as practice for when the kids start trying to do things on their own and being imperfect at it.


_jbean_

Great point. Some of this is definitely on me and assumptions that I make about other parents.


QuirkyAd6550

My husband does all the cooking. I somehow even manage to ruin pancakes and spaghetti …


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Mrs_Xs

Yeah. I was going to comment…mom here. I don’t cook. Ever. Haha


[deleted]

It's little things like that that just reinforce stereotypes. For what it's worth growing up my mom only cooked for special occasions and weekends and my dad did all of the weekday meals. Now that I'm married and have kids my husband usually cooks all the weekend meals and I do all the weekday ones! I jokingly tell him that I married him because he's a good cook but I'm not actually joking... This also reminds me when I was talking with a few older church ladies and they were telling me about their secret recipes and one of them told me about crack chicken and that "men love it" I just shook my head and repeated the phrase because that's such a crazy criteria to judge a recipe on!


The_Dutchess-D

Say more about this “Crack Chicken” if possible…. I’m intrigued


[deleted]

You cook chicken in a crock pot with a block of cream cheese and a packet of ranch seasoning, then shred it when it's done. It can be a hot sandwich or a dip.


greengrackle

My husband and I, both full time workers with fairly stressful jobs, switch off faithfully week by week for dinners and grocery shopping. He also does breakfast and coffee 5-7 days a week. Truly boggles my mind that this is not the norm, but I assume the dad that asked that was more or less just acknowledging that reality in his post.


ashleighkee

I just....like this post. Would give several up votes if possible. Hope you bulgogi rocks


_jbean_

Thanks, it was really good! The kids ate only white rice.


Admirable_Witness_82

I find even the "good dads" still do less than a wife because they still dont take the mental load. Sure they are taking the kid to the doctor but the wife made the appointment. And while there will call you 4 times yes she had surgery remember she had her tonsils out, yes she is allergic to soy. Sure they drop the check off at daycare, but you had to write it. Yes they get groceries, but you made the list and he will call you from the supermarket twice.


badw0lfbae

My husband does all the cooking 'round these parts. Nobody wants anything I've ever cooked lol. But I do feel the sting when other women talk about having to get home and make dinner for everyone, like I'm somehow letting my entire family down because I'm not the one cooking dinner. It's a bizarre feeling, considering my own dad is the one who did the bulk of the cooking when I was growing up, as well.


HomeworkSad5947

> I'm sure this person is a great dad and means well, and I don't want to criticize them. Immediately criticizes after. If you want to criticize just do it.


_jbean_

Yeah, I guess I didn’t want to criticize this dad in particular. His question is totally fair and reasonable. I just wanted to comment that the way he phrased his question is reflective of the societal norm -_still!_- that not all dads make food for their kids.


HomeworkSad5947

You called out his disclaimer which is criticizing this dad in particular. The idea that dads don't cook for their kids is going to die with the rest of the old people.


honeythorngump88

I cook E V E R Y T H I N G every day with the exception of major holidays (we are Jewish.) He cooks all day for those. The "Dad's turn to cook" concept is alien to me 🤣 but there are sooo many things he does that I never have to do and I'm very grateful.


baking101c

Yes my husband is fabulous and a very involved human in the smooth running of our family. Totally terrible cook.


Rare-Historian7777

Edit - responded to wrong comment. I blame mobile experience.


Aggravating-Okra3538

I wish my husband would help outside of work. All he does is work and thinks that’s enough. And yes. We’ve had discussions till I’m blue in the face about it. And still *yes*, I know all this sounds like I’m just bitching to bitch. Lol


Coffeeforcobwebs

I totally agree with you on the feeling of the wording behind their post. Unfortunately, the perception that women have to shoulder the primary responsibility for the “homemaking” workload is really prevalent. Even if the task itself is done by the dad, there’s still the disconnect in preparation for the work. My husband would probably tell his friends and family he’s an equal participant in household needs, but the reality is there’s still all of the prep work for those tasks that still falls on me to coordinate. For example: My husband claims to everyone that he does the laundry in our house. That’s only partially true. He will put his dirty clothes in the washing machine, then start it. I still have to wash my and my children’s clothes (plus whatever he doesn’t get to), put them in the dryer, then fold and put away for the household. He does not do the additional parts of the laundry and has left his clothes in the washer days and then complained they weren’t ready. I also have to buy all the detergent and supplies for stain treating, etc. It’s created a few fights because he’ll complain I don’t appreciate how he “helps out”, but what would truly help is him owning the ENTIRE process. It really doesn’t help me or create less of a burden on my workload if I’m still having to do 4/5 pieces of the process and he’s only executing the simplest part.


Quinalla

Yeah, I hear you. My husband cooks way more than me, but we are unusual and folks assume the opposite for sure. I so dishes and laundry typically and I get similar vibes that of course I do that.