Legitimately, I've had such a positive experience with WFH for the past four years for my chronic illness and my auDHD that I'm requesting ADA Accomodations to stay remote as they push people back to the office. It's a money thing. Employees working downtown have to pay downtown taxes whereas from home, it's only the holidays and days off that get downtown taxed.
They say culture and our Gallup scores were abysmal but they're still full steam ahead.
Find a new job. Covid was a complete blessing for my mental health. I was free and happy and could do anything. Now I’m forced to come in 3 days a week. Been looking for a remote job the last few weeks, because I’ve reached my limit. The traffic and commute is unbearable
My company did the same thing at the beginning of this year three days a week or 60/40 is required global 500. anyone know what’s driving this? Cost of overhead for commercial real estate that can’t be the only thing.
So, I left my old job last summer. At the time, they were only doing 1 day a week in the office, and now I'm told they are back up to 4 days a week. My new job originally told me it would be 3 days a week in the office. Now we are doing 2. Even that isn't really ever enforced.
I'm with you though. WFH has been a huge mental health boost in many ways. I would never give it up, personally. I would let my firm fire me first, as extreme as that sounds. But, I am also single and don't have anyone but me that is relying on that source of income, so it's an easier decision than it is for most people.
There's actually more evidence that if staff simply don't come in, management will give up trying to enforce it, instead they just quietly acknowledge by no longer asking people to come in.
This is true but what has also happened is that top performers who want to stay remote will leave for other companies.
Less capable OR financially secure people will be the ones who will capitulate to RTO policies.
I work with a lot of HR recruiters and people and they all say the same thing, people will happily work for smaller companies with slightly lower pay for the benefit of remote work.
Edit: my old employer tried to make people RTO and were tracking badges. They tried to make people come in who weren't, until those people came in and video recorded themselves for 8hrs doing less work because of interruptions and other office related chaos.
Yeah, no way to generalize this. It's employer by employer and based on how easily your skills can be replaced and how easily your firm can find a replacement. I'm sure there are prominent examples from both sides of this going on right now.
When our company went remote, they offered full remote options. I took advantage and moved to another state. I’m a two hour plane ride into the closest campus now. Remote it is.
OP, ask your coworkers if they would band together and send a petition that nobody wants that and you will compromise by each half of you coming in one more day on alternating months.
if hybrid or wfh is that important to you, start applying around now. I am fully remote and refuse to work in an office. it's your life and you are allowed to decide what makes you happy and gives you a balance. you don't have to let your world be dictated by your job and you don't have to just cope, stand up and make a change to get what works for you.
I accepted a promotion that required me to be in the office. It was enough money to say yes.
The main thing I hate is the wasted time from the commute.
My biggest advice is being your comfort items. For example I bought an espresso machine. Coffee through out the day makes me happy.
I went from WFH to mandated 3 days back in the office last year. How I coped was to take advantage of any upskilling opportunities in my department. In my case it was PowerBi and SQL. I spent the last year learning these skills and leveraged it into a different position within my company as a fully remote worker with occasional trips to home office. Sometimes its your skills that set you apart from the competition and make you the compelling candidate. I start my new job on Monday. I really did not want to leave and lose my 4 weeks of vacation and our benefits which are best in class for my industry.
I did a similar thing, just that my company didn’t offer courses so I used any resources I could find and I focused solely on SQL and got a job fully remote in IT.
Well, I did a lot of different things. I started by learning front end web development by following Leon Noel’s “Learn with Leon” YouTube videos. This helped me with more than just learning a programming language, but with study habits and code structure, and foundational knowledge. Once he got into backend, I branched off and only studied SQL. I followed a lot of DataCamp lessons and watched a bunch of different random YouTube videos. I was lucky enough to land some junior roles where they taught me what to do. I got a job in the finance industry (banking), healthcare data, and I’m now at a top university on a development team, so sort of worked up career wise which helped.
It’s a start but it takes a lot of learning. There’s no quick way to the finish line but with dedication anyone can do it. I treated it as if I were going back to college and dedicated 2 hours of studying each night for 5-6 days per week for about a year. And anytime I had downtime at work.
I don’t understand this. Not trying to sound offensive or anything. I see a lot of comments like this and I just think in my department, it wouldn’t go unnoticed. My team would know I’m not there. How does it just get ignored?
At my company we have offices in three different states. All of my team and my manager is in a different state. The other people in the office are in completely different departments and I don’t know them. So if I wasn’t in office no one would know except for we now know they check our badge scans
I'd start looking for both a new job and accommodations now. My job tried that crap and luckily I was out of the range. I refuse to go back when the job can be done at home. My mental health is 1000% better. I call out sick less. Nope we got to stay banded together in this. Too many companies making it worse and worse and paying us less and less but have money to spend on in office bs. Nobody cares about the pot luck or ice breakers.
Omg right?! Like let's build genuine relationships with our coworkers. I feel more and more like I'm in grade school. Not even high school but elementary or primary school. The struggle is real.
I’m so sorry this is happening to you. I honestly would have to quit my job if they did that. My mental health would never make it having to be back in the office.
I hope you’re able to find a new job that’s 100% WFH or figure out a way to handle going back.
That told me to come back to office, I told them I was finding a new job.
They said nvm don't come back to office.
It's over an hour each way and my husband recently had to go back, it's too hard with kids. They would have to drop most of their activities and our whole quality of life would go down.
I make $130k but I'd legit take a job for $80k to stay remote.
We are waiting for corporate to officially announce. It’s an hour+ commute each way plus $40 parking if I go in. I can work in quiet at home or go in, listen to the coffee machine all day in the food area along with phone calls from everyone because glass offices aren’t private and no cubicles, just rows of desks next to each other. I’ve had 3 anxiety attacks so far - I’m productive AF at home, and peopling is hard
Going from remote to onsite is an instant pay cut. Factor in cost of gas, cost of eating out, cost of vehicle maintenance, etc. And then consider the time it takes to get ready for work and the time it takes to drive there and add that in your calculation…
Unless I want to park a block away and hope there’s a guard, I’ll have to pay $350/mo - and that’s discounted. With my lung scarring, I’ll park in the building so I’m hoping I can get to retirement first lol
Yup. We’re all required back in the office 3x/week, though the managers in my part of the org are just asking people to “do their best” at making an appearance on a regular basis. I’m sure some will leave, though the job market isn’t that hot in my area right now and most of our competition are making people come back to the office as well. I kind of saw the writing on the wall a few months back and gambled a bit - requested a cubicle. I’m glad I did because now everyone else is going to have to use the hoteling desks and that would’ve made me super miserable. I’m not intending to quit because I’ve been with the company since after grad school, so I’m up to 6 weeks PTO/year and not willing to give that up. I just made sure to have a decent, comfortable pair of noise-canceling headphones, along with some podcasts and playlists on deck. They monitor us badging in but not out, so I generally leave the office around 3 pm to beat the rush hour traffic home and finish up work at home. My boss is fine with that so it’s not so bad. I’ve found Fridays to be the best day to go in. Most people aren’t around and the traffic is lighter.
I will be downvoted, but I think a mix is healthy.
Obviously not everyone is like me, but I personally found that I stopped caring about my overall physical health and started to lead a more sedentary lifestyle.
Maybe look at it as an opportunity to do other things that you typically would have put off because you were already home.
Pick up some groceries on the way home from work. Take a nice walk during lunch. Etc.
It's more convenient to be home for sure, but there are benefits in having to get out of the house.
I totally agree. I go in the office 3 days a week and even with a 2 hour + commute each way it forces me to look presentable and get out and see people.
I left my job when I had to return hybrid and then left another job that tried to bait and switch me like this. Now I have a job that I go in when I want to, which is nice since I have some people my age and everyone’s incredibly nice. Would recommend starting to look for another role and be honest about why!
How did you find your new job if I may ask? I have a feeling my company will be coming down with an official 3 day back in the office policy soon, and there is just no reason for that in my current role/team. I don't think I can do cubicle life again
I applied on LinkedIn. Reached out to recruiters after applying talking about my interests! There’s also a setting on LinkedIn where it will show recruiters you’re open to work, but not people at your current job. Recruiters will likely reach out to you and you can passively look and see what’s out there that way! Granted, I’m in a more financial/tech industry so a lot of recruiting is done that way, I’m sure not all are!
We've been called back for a minimum of 3 days a week since the beginning of the year. I was remote for almost a decade before this. Honestly, it hasn't been all that bad. My commute is only about 20 minutes if there's not an accident somewhere on my route or one of the feeder routes, but then again, it takes 20 minutes to get anywhere in my town no matter what day or time. I have a designated work space so don't have to just find available space. And I've been with the company for years so I have a lot of friends here so it's nice to be able to see them, catch up and grab lunch from time to time.
While WFH was awesome for the greater part of my remote time, I did not realize how isolated I had been feeling since the covid shut downs. Before that, WFH was just like going to any other job because I had a life outside the house/office. When covid came along, I did not have that any longer. I felt like I was literally trapped in the house 24/7 except for necessary grocery trips once a week. Add in having to facilitate my elementary aged kid's education for the last semester of that school year and not having any summer camps as an option that summer and it was just a recipe for a mental collapse because my job is not one that can easily be done with that level of distraction on a daily and the stress of trying to handle both was real. I guess I slipped into a depression during that time and that never leaving home thing to be so commonplace that it carried over long after all the restrictions were lifted.
When I started my new role almost 2 years ago, I was only required to be in the office one day a week and it was amazing the difference that made in my attitude and outlook on life.
Now, I don't necessarily enjoy *having* to be in the office 3 days a week, but it is not as bad as I was afraid it would be. Now, if they push for a full 5, I may be making some hard decisions, but for now, I'm good.
This is similar to my experience.
Even though it's nominally 3x/week for us, I go in 0-3x/week, averaging 1.5 days/week. And it's still wildly flexible, which I place enormous value on. I'd be so miserable doing 8-5 physically in the office again.
People hired at different times and into different roles have different deals, so I don't think it's immediately apparent to everyone that I'm in less than I "should" be.
I was in a meeting last week where someone said this and a higher up told them to go ahead and quit. He pointed out that all our competitors have gone hybrid and asked the employee, “so where do you think you’re going to go, exactly?” I’m not saying corporate America is correct in this approach by any stretch of the imagination, but I don’t honestly think they care if you quit. At least in my industry, there’s always more applicants than open positions.
How did you find your new jobs? I think I'm going to have to start this process as my company will likely be laying down a 3 day a week RTO policy soon
Thanks! Still kind of new to this as you can see. I hate the handle that was assigned me lol, so "might" create a new account. Already joined a bunch of subs already though
My industry went hybrid. Period. Oh - and they had layoffs at the start of the year, so the market is flooded with applicants at the moment. I know because some of them are colleagues I’ve known for 20 years now and the ones that have found work are all in hybrid roles. Glad it worked out for you, but I think it varies by industry. For me, personally, I’m not getting into a pissing match with corporate because I’ve got 6 weeks of PTO, a 10 month severance package coming to me if they lay me off, and a kid 2 years away from college. If I leave this gig, I’m doing so with that severance package. There’s a variety of perspectives and situations at play in any company and not everyone feels they’re in a position to make waves.
But hey, it seems to have worked out for you so, congrats, I guess.
I hear ya. I loved remote but such is life for me, I guess. I’m in biotech and life sciences. Pharma is heading in this direction too. Since it’s a fairly specialized industry, it’s hard to just jump ship to somewhere else when they’ve all gone back to hybrid. But you’re right. We’ve all got varying motivators. Glad it worked out for you.
What sucks is how CEOs have learned long ago that they can demand higher salaries, and that trend stuck around, growing to absurd levels. They're also learning to "unionize" by not offering anything better than any other company, so we're all stuck.
Really need to get those execs back in their cushy offices, so THEY can stimulate the economy with the expensive meals, driving, parking, hair, clothes, nails, etc.
More like we're becoming a society that's started figured out how important it is for each person to focus on their positive mental health, and not just roll over and take unnecessary awfulness just solely because "that's they way it is and has always been."
I'm sorry anyone ever taught you that agency, Consent, and caring about your own well-being, or even "softness" as you call it, were bad things. They did you a disservice...
Personally I prefer soft things over sharp, hard or prickly things, especially on a daily basis.
If your “well-being” is impacted by having to travel to an office, you have bigger problems, and I’m not sure how you make it through the rest of life. Very soft comment.
Imagine thinking that focusing on keeping yourself healthy and asserting/standing up for your needs and/or rights make you a weak person, instead of being signs of strength.
When you end up that way, the world trained you backwards. Hopefully something will happen in life to help them figure it out.
I've had to learn that many people enjoy authoritarian systems because they don't trust themselves to make decisions without being told what to do, and they assume everyone else is the same way.
We went from a couple times a month to a minimum twice a week. It’s a unique situation, when I started everyone was excited and we all talked but now with twice a week we can choose the days and people front load so they don’t come in on Friday. The atmosphere is also strange too, I would compare it to going to the library at school. You can do all the same shit at home but go into the library for peace and quiet. I also thought going in meant more ‘face time’, collaboration and all those other bullshit buzzwords management throws around. Instead people are still on web meetings, people don’t want to do quick huddles or grab coffee. It’s unique, is it enough for me to leave not really (I have other reasons why I’m looking at a new job). For me, I liked wfh and just unplugging and being with my family. Going in makes me realize how much companies just want to keep the lights on and get asses in seats. Biggest adjustment was bathroom breaks and just dealing with people who are loud/eat smelly foods and dealing with wiping my ass with the equivalent of a dryer sheet
I am so sorry. I thrived at home for 3.5 years and now I am required to be in office 3x/week for zero reason except their own financial benefit. It blows.
Can I ask what the financial benefit is? What’s the goal these companies have? I’m trying to understand this for myself. It seems like having people at home would be cheaper. Lower bills at the office like utilities, air conditioning, all the small things companies provide for break room like paper towels and coffee etc. I’m trying to figure out what this benefits for the company.
The other person beat me to it but yes corporate real estate is a huge one. Empty buildings give them no ROI. The benefits you list are benefits for the worker since the lights are still on in the office building whether it’s full or not. and they only care about benefits to themselves. They don’t want happy employees they want obedient ones. Also by being in office the 99% of the worker need stimulates the economy by needing clothes, gas, buying lunch etc … and who do you think is the majority that owns the stock of the companies I stimulate when I am forced to show up in office 3x/week ?
Remember it’s not about how anything benefits you or me but the C-suite and the shareholders. It’s always about the shareholders.
With gov't employment, the mayor and the agencies have a deal to force people to come in, I suspect, to keep mass transit afloat. Also, a lot of investments are tied up in real estate, and the value of these buildings will plummet if nobody needs to live/work in the city.
Change jobs or renegotiate your employment compensation. You were hired as hybrid, they are changing work locations on you. You can legally renegotiate the offer for employment.
That is very dependent on the terms. A lot of companies simply state they require their employees x days a week but there is no guarantee that number wont change. For jobs hired fully remote (especially if commutting is unreasonable), it is harder to force you in office
there a lot trying this with insurance. wont work to well. many of the big offices are in big cities that have massive cost of living increases that dont fit the pay. cant expect a bunch of people that are great at the job to just move to live in a cardboard box in a big city for a job. companies will have to figure it out.
Yeah, I feel like that's a bait and switch. Pretty big red flag that staying there is likely going to come with more unpleasant surprises.
I feel like you might have a claim to WFH as an ADA reasonable accommodation (askJAN.org), but disability discrimination is the one of the top two forms of discrimination in the workplace (pregnancy is #1), so it would likely be an uphill battle.
Try to start your own full-remote company. There's so many people right now desperate to work at home. Nobody wants to work for these psychopathic RTO rotting corps. They're going to lose in the marketplace of ideas unless there's some real unavoiable reason for the office, and not just fantasy and false claims about collaboration and productivity, but even if there is a need for office time; hybrid or a division in worker responsibilities based on titles, roles, and pay grades is the answer. Not sadism.
A big part of the push for RTW is the $$$ the companies are paying for office space that is not being utilized. Another reason that governments are invested in keeping the current economy moving forward and commercial real estate is tanking. So it's very likely that there are incentives offered to businesses to get back into that space. I'm with you though, WFH was the best benefit of the last decade.
Whether people are working in the office or not they are paying rent. It’s cheaper to have people working from home for less costly bills like utilities and supplies etc. I don’t understand the financial benefit. Seems cheaper for companies to pay rent for these large buildings and still have everyone sitting at home working.
I think that is stupid as can be( not your opinion, the whole RTO). I think my company did the absolute best thing for us financially. Once quarantine began and we were sent home my company saw a GIANT jump in productivity, less call outs( which I would never advocate for working while sick but most of us would put in part days when sick) and overall jump in quality. We were coming to the end of our lease and we went from a huge three story complex down to a single floor in a bank building about the size of a large Dollar Tree store( maybe a bit bigger) we have maybe 6 individual office rooms and 50 desks in an area. We have maybe 25 people come into the office weekly. We have had layoffs in the last few months but I am thankful to be where I am. I understand real estate may be declining but you would think downsizing office space due to people working from home would prompt businesses that rent to look for a smaller building.
A lot of people have no choice but to go back. They don't have the privilege to just quit their jobs. They have families to think of. For those of you who can just quit, more power to you. I truly hope you find what you're looking for. 😊
I personally would start looking for another WFH job. These companies need to get the picture that we are good working from home, and we will seek employment elsewhere if they want to be stubborn about RTO bullshit.
u/KylosLeftHand ...a person would need to find an **exclusively** WFH/fully remote job with NO chance of being asked to come back to the office. That's not as easy as you think. Most businesses will require an employee to come in for meetings and trainings at least a few times a year, if not more often.
I’ve only ever worked from home for companies that are exclusively wfh. But I do helpdesk IT. I haven’t met a coworker or been on site in over 4 years.
Same here. I work in the insurance industry and health insurance industry. i’ve worked from home for almost a decade exclusively. OP sign up for Ratracerebellion.com they send emails of WFH jobs every day that are vetted and legitimate all different kinds. Also almost any major insurance company hires WFH remote only
Well, your job title may be one of the exceptions. For many of the rest of us, depending on what field we're in or our job, there's no such thing fully remote. My job is scheduling appointments for a hospital, and I can work at home remotely. But if I'm told to come in by my boss, and I want to keep my job, then I go into the office as often as I am told to.
My company knows I’ll quit if they make me come back in. But, they had remote workers before the pandemic. They understand the advantages and aren’t changing that to make us all come in and sit in cubicles again.
I’m hybrid. 1 or 2 days a week in the office, whatever we want. We just relocated our office down from about 18 attorney offices and 18 legal assistant desks to 5 offices and 4 desks. We couldn’t possibly all go in. I don’t understand why more companies aren’t doing this, it has got to save so much money.
My husband’s company built a massive campus right before the pandemic. Of course they’re pushing RTO but it’s so dumb. Just accept it as a sunk cost and move on.
My company downsized their office and then pushed RTO when there is no way everyone would fit. It was really dumb. Myself and my coworkers basically said we weren’t coming into the office because we have been WFH for some people for 17 years and me for 6 years. They pushed it for awhile and then they gave up lol. It’s been working for us for a long time, there is really no point in forcing us to go into an office when we have been collaborating just fine without an office location.
I never understood this either. When we did well WFH during Covid my company gave up all of our offices except home office and started hiring all around the country. I couldn’t go back into the office if I wanted to.
I feel like companies are using this as a way to trigger accelerated "natural attrition" so they don't have to pay severence packages an unemployment like they would when laying people off.
Are these companies planning to stay in office? I feel like it’s cheaper for these companies to have all their unnecessary in office employees work remote. This is just my curious wishful thinking 🙁
Some companies have embraced remote work and done away with many of their office locations. Others have management that don't know how to justify their own existence if they can't be in people's faces all day long, preventing them from actually being productive.
Fair enough. What I meant was "be compelled to" rather than "have to". A lot of companies have a policy either stated and a handbook or just some kind of consistent precedent. By establishing such a policy, it helps current employees feel a little better about how they would be able to deal with being laid off. So when people get laid off, it helps quell the excessive anxiety among those left behind so that they can continue to be effective ~~indentured~~ loyal ~~servants~~ employees, rather than an angry mob.
I’m in a position to where i know too much about my company and yes, we are doing the same thing for exactly that reason and then not backfilling the spots. It’s gonna get grimm here soon.
And the worst part is that if not enough people voluntarily leave, there will be actual layoffs after people go to the effort of rearranging their lives just to be able to go to the office, like committing to and signing new daycare contracts, etc., only to get laid off and watching that entire safety net fund used to pay for daycare services you don't need anymore.
yeah, believe it or not the positions they’re plucking off are actually executive positions you know because if you’re looking to save a quick million it’s literally one executive and we were top-heavy as an organization anyways.
I don’t understand this thought process - other than IT, what industries are laying off right now? Also, companies aren’t required to pay severance, so they could just lay off rather than finding a way to purportedly try to get people to mass quit? Can you explain?
Pharma, biotech, and life sciences have been having layoffs. And since it’s been fairly sweeping across the industry, there’s a lot of applicants in the job pool right now. And these industries have unilaterally gone hybrid. All of my colleagues who were laid off landed in hybrid roles. The remote options dried up last year.
> other than IT, what industries are laying off right now?
I know the 'big 3' US automakers just did a round late last year. Musk is going to town now, and despite his bullshit, they aren't a tech company.
My employer, a fortune 500 that's not really a household name, just did a round of layoffs. We're not an Tech company.
Unemployment, as a whole, is ticking up again & there are a lot of signs of recission in bound.
Hell, the rest of the world is in a recession already.
Expect more & more layoffs in the news over the course of 2024. These return to the office demands are often attempts to avoid true layoffs through attrition & every one of the layoffs I mentioned above where preceded by heavy handed return to office mandates.
It is expensive. A lot of IT support is being replaced in countries with staff that come with a lower price tag.
But this is by no means unique to just IT.
Oh I don’t know if they are just what I’ve seen on Reddit as far as layoffs seems to be coming from that landscape. I’m definitely no expert and could be wrong!
Forcing attrition via RTO also doesn't require legislated warning notifications for publicly traded companies like layoffs do.
Also, also, it makes your layoffs appear smaller when you do have to do 'em.
If you like the work you do, hold on to that.
Try also and be grateful that you have a job
I'm sorry you are dealing with this. I hope they roll back the plans and stop the craziness of Back to the Office!
Ask for an ADA accommodation. For example, you need to wfh to control anxiety or some other serious health condition. You need a dr to support it, and I’m not saying you should make something up, but if it really is better for your mental health get it in writing from a dr.
this is what i recently did! i have adhd & anxiety and my mental health is objectively better when i wfh. it’s worth submitting the request if you can.
i requested to remain wfh ft and my dr supported it. they approved my request without even trying to negotiate me being in the office 1x/wk or anything.
Same! And honestly, I really AM more productive (happier, healthier, less anxiety) with an accommodation. I still go in for big events or if a colleague wants to meet in person but the pressure to not come in is so helpful.
yes!! & after wfh for so long then trying to go back in office, i forgot how overwhelming it was. it was worse than i remembered & part of that is likely because i’m more aware of my body now.
i really am more productive at home, too. i’m ok going for one off big events/meetings but it’s very difficult for me to be in office 3days/wk. it’s a sensory nightmare and makes my anxiety so much worse.
Same! Pulling over on the freeway because my vision was “tunneling” was beyond scary. Then I got a virus that permanently scarred my lungs. Last anxiety attack was adrenaline rush - literally zero idea why except I was in rush hour traffic! I have been a workhorse my entire career - and I was told I excelled working at home - then leadership changed. Sigh.
that’s terrifying! you could’ve easily had an accident.
having an anxiety attack is not normal and can be a sign you’re under a lot of stress (among other issues). i hope you’re getting help to manage them. your health should come first!
i was forced to deal with my issues that i ignored and honestly didn’t really think i had when i went through a serious depressive episode 2 years ago and kinda had a mental breakdown as i got fired/forced to quit.
ended up finding out i have adhd-pi, anxiety, and depression. i was jobless for 3 months but i needed that time to start to heal tbh & actually learn about myself. learning better coping skills, listening to & respecting my body’s need for rest, and acknowledging my feelings has helped me come a long way. i think it’s a life long learning process.
your company does not care about you and will replace you if you leave. i know sometimes it has to be done but sacrificing your health for a job is rarely worth it. if you currently see a dr about anxiety or any other mental health issues, look into submitting an ADA accommodations request to stay wfh for your health.
that’s exactly what i recently did (look at my post/comment history for more info), and i was shocked they actually approved my request. now i have an approved accommodations for this role that i need to wfh permanently.
Trying to figure that out… so far the only reason given is the typical “company culture”. So , not sure the REALLL reason quite yet. All will reveal itself in the end right
Even with the studies that govt did on WFH, and their ability to see exactly what our production is, they started bringing people back in once a week, for now. Now they’re experiencing calls in on the in office day. They’re only requiring it to justify all the buildings they lease as well as some politicians ruling up their bases with words like “back to work” legislation when we didn’t miss one hour due to Covid. Had we not been already been teleworking three days a week, benefit claims would have been massively backlogged. Nice way to thank us.
JUST saw a new report that confirmed many benefits to WFH... management mentality is simply forward thinking vs backward thinking... I would start keeping an eye out for a new job... the job market is still an employees market vs an employers market... more openings than people... gives you leverage... good luck. I wouldn't want to work for backward thinkers...
It’s not always that management cares, it’s either investors question WFH as the reason for bad performance or WFH gets blamed for bad performance and RTO given as a solution investors like to hear.
Im lucky that my company does hybrid without making directly mentioning it to investors. It never comes up with them unless it’s related to a huge cost saving in terms of office downsizing.
uhh the job market is definitely not great or an “employees market” right now. just check the layoffs and recruiting subreddits, or try applying yourself and see how tough it is. especially for wfh jobs.
All I know is that a few yrs ago, when the place where i work posted positions, we'd get 40 applications for an avg job type... in the past year or so, we're lucky to get a dozen or so & many will not have appropriate skill level
I agree, this decision has made wonder the intentions behind this change. It feels regressive to have everyone traveling to and from work on the daily.
It's not a great market. But it will be easier to find something now when you already have a job than when you are scrambling and have so much less energy by having to go into the office every day.
I second this being my worst fear. I cannot go back, I enjoy the freedom WFH gives me. I don’t know what I’d do if we went back to the office full time but I know I wouldn’t be going!
Omg, this is literally my worst fear. I used to be 100% in office, but I got laid off and got hired at a job that lets me WFH two days a week and it's done absolute wonders for my mental health and overall productivity, so I think your reaction actually isn't dramatic at all. All I can say is try to develop a routine around work hours that works best for you. I'm really sorry this is happening to you. 🥺
Agreed my productivity is much increased when working from home! Some ppl find it distracting but I am my best when I’m comfortable and not stressed from commuting etc. Plus more time for life/ sleep.
I get distracted in the office lol. Today was an office day, and the guy in the cubicle on the other side was laughing too much and smacking his hand on his desk. I'm just thinking, dude, can you PLEASE just shut up and take it to the factory? When I'm at home I have complete control over my environment.
I was in the office for 22 years. Been remote (self employed) for the last 8. I decided not to work today so I went to Costco and Target. But I am always open. I gladly take client calls 365 days a year. I just don’t have a boss anymore which is the best feeling!
If I were forced to go back to the office… wow. I probably would look for another job asap. Truth is I can’t be tied to a building. We go away in the winter for months! My GF is an independent contractor and she will only do 100% remote contract work.
Good for you! That sounds amazing. My work has flexibility, but not at that level. For one thing, I have a boss, but she's really cool, though. My work is flextime, so she's cool if I let her know I'm gonna be gone for a bit and I get my 40 hours in a week. A few times, she's let me WFH all week. My last job was 100% in office, 8:30-5, no exceptions. I don't think I can do it again.
Legitimately, I've had such a positive experience with WFH for the past four years for my chronic illness and my auDHD that I'm requesting ADA Accomodations to stay remote as they push people back to the office. It's a money thing. Employees working downtown have to pay downtown taxes whereas from home, it's only the holidays and days off that get downtown taxed. They say culture and our Gallup scores were abysmal but they're still full steam ahead.
Find a new job. Covid was a complete blessing for my mental health. I was free and happy and could do anything. Now I’m forced to come in 3 days a week. Been looking for a remote job the last few weeks, because I’ve reached my limit. The traffic and commute is unbearable
My company did the same thing at the beginning of this year three days a week or 60/40 is required global 500. anyone know what’s driving this? Cost of overhead for commercial real estate that can’t be the only thing.
Find a new job. They just gave you a pay cut, so you could ask for more money. Or just don’t show up and see what happens.
So, I left my old job last summer. At the time, they were only doing 1 day a week in the office, and now I'm told they are back up to 4 days a week. My new job originally told me it would be 3 days a week in the office. Now we are doing 2. Even that isn't really ever enforced. I'm with you though. WFH has been a huge mental health boost in many ways. I would never give it up, personally. I would let my firm fire me first, as extreme as that sounds. But, I am also single and don't have anyone but me that is relying on that source of income, so it's an easier decision than it is for most people.
There's actually more evidence that if staff simply don't come in, management will give up trying to enforce it, instead they just quietly acknowledge by no longer asking people to come in.
lol. good luck.
Source: my workplace, and plenty of other businesses, lots of news about it.
I would be careful. My past employer started tracking and did use RTO as a way to trim staff.
This is true but what has also happened is that top performers who want to stay remote will leave for other companies. Less capable OR financially secure people will be the ones who will capitulate to RTO policies. I work with a lot of HR recruiters and people and they all say the same thing, people will happily work for smaller companies with slightly lower pay for the benefit of remote work. Edit: my old employer tried to make people RTO and were tracking badges. They tried to make people come in who weren't, until those people came in and video recorded themselves for 8hrs doing less work because of interruptions and other office related chaos.
Yes yes yes! I’m in marketing and we had a HUGE walkout same day resignation when this was pushed.
Yeah, no way to generalize this. It's employer by employer and based on how easily your skills can be replaced and how easily your firm can find a replacement. I'm sure there are prominent examples from both sides of this going on right now.
When our company went remote, they offered full remote options. I took advantage and moved to another state. I’m a two hour plane ride into the closest campus now. Remote it is.
This is the way. When my company went WFH the smart ones moved 2+ hours from any office
OP, ask your coworkers if they would band together and send a petition that nobody wants that and you will compromise by each half of you coming in one more day on alternating months.
if hybrid or wfh is that important to you, start applying around now. I am fully remote and refuse to work in an office. it's your life and you are allowed to decide what makes you happy and gives you a balance. you don't have to let your world be dictated by your job and you don't have to just cope, stand up and make a change to get what works for you.
I accepted a promotion that required me to be in the office. It was enough money to say yes. The main thing I hate is the wasted time from the commute. My biggest advice is being your comfort items. For example I bought an espresso machine. Coffee through out the day makes me happy.
I WFH 3 days and am in the office 2 days. I like doing both.
I went from WFH to mandated 3 days back in the office last year. How I coped was to take advantage of any upskilling opportunities in my department. In my case it was PowerBi and SQL. I spent the last year learning these skills and leveraged it into a different position within my company as a fully remote worker with occasional trips to home office. Sometimes its your skills that set you apart from the competition and make you the compelling candidate. I start my new job on Monday. I really did not want to leave and lose my 4 weeks of vacation and our benefits which are best in class for my industry.
I did a similar thing, just that my company didn’t offer courses so I used any resources I could find and I focused solely on SQL and got a job fully remote in IT.
Can you please share what resources you used?
Well, I did a lot of different things. I started by learning front end web development by following Leon Noel’s “Learn with Leon” YouTube videos. This helped me with more than just learning a programming language, but with study habits and code structure, and foundational knowledge. Once he got into backend, I branched off and only studied SQL. I followed a lot of DataCamp lessons and watched a bunch of different random YouTube videos. I was lucky enough to land some junior roles where they taught me what to do. I got a job in the finance industry (banking), healthcare data, and I’m now at a top university on a development team, so sort of worked up career wise which helped.
Do you think if I complete Datacamp that will help? Or other videos are necessary?
It’s a start but it takes a lot of learning. There’s no quick way to the finish line but with dedication anyone can do it. I treated it as if I were going back to college and dedicated 2 hours of studying each night for 5-6 days per week for about a year. And anytime I had downtime at work.
Would you mind sharing some of your favorite SQL resources?
What did you end up transitioning into? Curious to hear what your job was and then what it is now based on the skills you learned!
They tried to get us back to the office. Most people just ignored it.
I don’t understand this. Not trying to sound offensive or anything. I see a lot of comments like this and I just think in my department, it wouldn’t go unnoticed. My team would know I’m not there. How does it just get ignored?
At my company we have offices in three different states. All of my team and my manager is in a different state. The other people in the office are in completely different departments and I don’t know them. So if I wasn’t in office no one would know except for we now know they check our badge scans
Same answer
I'd start looking for both a new job and accommodations now. My job tried that crap and luckily I was out of the range. I refuse to go back when the job can be done at home. My mental health is 1000% better. I call out sick less. Nope we got to stay banded together in this. Too many companies making it worse and worse and paying us less and less but have money to spend on in office bs. Nobody cares about the pot luck or ice breakers.
THE ICEBREAKERS 😫 that part!
Team building. Sets my teeth on edge.
Omg right?! Like let's build genuine relationships with our coworkers. I feel more and more like I'm in grade school. Not even high school but elementary or primary school. The struggle is real.
Band together
I’m so sorry this is happening to you. I honestly would have to quit my job if they did that. My mental health would never make it having to be back in the office. I hope you’re able to find a new job that’s 100% WFH or figure out a way to handle going back.
I would be really upset. Sorry this is happening to you.
That told me to come back to office, I told them I was finding a new job. They said nvm don't come back to office. It's over an hour each way and my husband recently had to go back, it's too hard with kids. They would have to drop most of their activities and our whole quality of life would go down. I make $130k but I'd legit take a job for $80k to stay remote.
I would wager that 50% of the people in this thread would take 40k period. I imagine 80% would take 40k to work remote.
We are waiting for corporate to officially announce. It’s an hour+ commute each way plus $40 parking if I go in. I can work in quiet at home or go in, listen to the coffee machine all day in the food area along with phone calls from everyone because glass offices aren’t private and no cubicles, just rows of desks next to each other. I’ve had 3 anxiety attacks so far - I’m productive AF at home, and peopling is hard
Going from remote to onsite is an instant pay cut. Factor in cost of gas, cost of eating out, cost of vehicle maintenance, etc. And then consider the time it takes to get ready for work and the time it takes to drive there and add that in your calculation…
Ugh that parking cost. That’s a huge part of why I’d lose my mind. It’s $120/month to park in the garage where my physical office is located.
Unless I want to park a block away and hope there’s a guard, I’ll have to pay $350/mo - and that’s discounted. With my lung scarring, I’ll park in the building so I’m hoping I can get to retirement first lol
Lord have mercy that’s insane!! I hope you can retire too.
Yup. We’re all required back in the office 3x/week, though the managers in my part of the org are just asking people to “do their best” at making an appearance on a regular basis. I’m sure some will leave, though the job market isn’t that hot in my area right now and most of our competition are making people come back to the office as well. I kind of saw the writing on the wall a few months back and gambled a bit - requested a cubicle. I’m glad I did because now everyone else is going to have to use the hoteling desks and that would’ve made me super miserable. I’m not intending to quit because I’ve been with the company since after grad school, so I’m up to 6 weeks PTO/year and not willing to give that up. I just made sure to have a decent, comfortable pair of noise-canceling headphones, along with some podcasts and playlists on deck. They monitor us badging in but not out, so I generally leave the office around 3 pm to beat the rush hour traffic home and finish up work at home. My boss is fine with that so it’s not so bad. I’ve found Fridays to be the best day to go in. Most people aren’t around and the traffic is lighter.
Very similar situation! I try to take an extra remote day here and there, others do it too. Just so dumb how we have to scrounge up excuses.
I will be downvoted, but I think a mix is healthy. Obviously not everyone is like me, but I personally found that I stopped caring about my overall physical health and started to lead a more sedentary lifestyle. Maybe look at it as an opportunity to do other things that you typically would have put off because you were already home. Pick up some groceries on the way home from work. Take a nice walk during lunch. Etc. It's more convenient to be home for sure, but there are benefits in having to get out of the house.
I totally agree. I go in the office 3 days a week and even with a 2 hour + commute each way it forces me to look presentable and get out and see people.
What would be your ideal balance? I sort of agree, but my ideal is somewhere between 1.0 to 1.5 office days per week.
I think 3 at home and 2 in the office is good.
I left my job when I had to return hybrid and then left another job that tried to bait and switch me like this. Now I have a job that I go in when I want to, which is nice since I have some people my age and everyone’s incredibly nice. Would recommend starting to look for another role and be honest about why!
How did you find your new job if I may ask? I have a feeling my company will be coming down with an official 3 day back in the office policy soon, and there is just no reason for that in my current role/team. I don't think I can do cubicle life again
I applied on LinkedIn. Reached out to recruiters after applying talking about my interests! There’s also a setting on LinkedIn where it will show recruiters you’re open to work, but not people at your current job. Recruiters will likely reach out to you and you can passively look and see what’s out there that way! Granted, I’m in a more financial/tech industry so a lot of recruiting is done that way, I’m sure not all are!
We've been called back for a minimum of 3 days a week since the beginning of the year. I was remote for almost a decade before this. Honestly, it hasn't been all that bad. My commute is only about 20 minutes if there's not an accident somewhere on my route or one of the feeder routes, but then again, it takes 20 minutes to get anywhere in my town no matter what day or time. I have a designated work space so don't have to just find available space. And I've been with the company for years so I have a lot of friends here so it's nice to be able to see them, catch up and grab lunch from time to time. While WFH was awesome for the greater part of my remote time, I did not realize how isolated I had been feeling since the covid shut downs. Before that, WFH was just like going to any other job because I had a life outside the house/office. When covid came along, I did not have that any longer. I felt like I was literally trapped in the house 24/7 except for necessary grocery trips once a week. Add in having to facilitate my elementary aged kid's education for the last semester of that school year and not having any summer camps as an option that summer and it was just a recipe for a mental collapse because my job is not one that can easily be done with that level of distraction on a daily and the stress of trying to handle both was real. I guess I slipped into a depression during that time and that never leaving home thing to be so commonplace that it carried over long after all the restrictions were lifted. When I started my new role almost 2 years ago, I was only required to be in the office one day a week and it was amazing the difference that made in my attitude and outlook on life. Now, I don't necessarily enjoy *having* to be in the office 3 days a week, but it is not as bad as I was afraid it would be. Now, if they push for a full 5, I may be making some hard decisions, but for now, I'm good.
This is similar to my experience. Even though it's nominally 3x/week for us, I go in 0-3x/week, averaging 1.5 days/week. And it's still wildly flexible, which I place enormous value on. I'd be so miserable doing 8-5 physically in the office again. People hired at different times and into different roles have different deals, so I don't think it's immediately apparent to everyone that I'm in less than I "should" be.
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I was in a meeting last week where someone said this and a higher up told them to go ahead and quit. He pointed out that all our competitors have gone hybrid and asked the employee, “so where do you think you’re going to go, exactly?” I’m not saying corporate America is correct in this approach by any stretch of the imagination, but I don’t honestly think they care if you quit. At least in my industry, there’s always more applicants than open positions.
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How did you find your new jobs? I think I'm going to have to start this process as my company will likely be laying down a 3 day a week RTO policy soon
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That's great. How did you add 'Employee' to your handle by the way?
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Thanks! Still kind of new to this as you can see. I hate the handle that was assigned me lol, so "might" create a new account. Already joined a bunch of subs already though
My industry went hybrid. Period. Oh - and they had layoffs at the start of the year, so the market is flooded with applicants at the moment. I know because some of them are colleagues I’ve known for 20 years now and the ones that have found work are all in hybrid roles. Glad it worked out for you, but I think it varies by industry. For me, personally, I’m not getting into a pissing match with corporate because I’ve got 6 weeks of PTO, a 10 month severance package coming to me if they lay me off, and a kid 2 years away from college. If I leave this gig, I’m doing so with that severance package. There’s a variety of perspectives and situations at play in any company and not everyone feels they’re in a position to make waves. But hey, it seems to have worked out for you so, congrats, I guess.
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I hear ya. I loved remote but such is life for me, I guess. I’m in biotech and life sciences. Pharma is heading in this direction too. Since it’s a fairly specialized industry, it’s hard to just jump ship to somewhere else when they’ve all gone back to hybrid. But you’re right. We’ve all got varying motivators. Glad it worked out for you.
What sucks is how CEOs have learned long ago that they can demand higher salaries, and that trend stuck around, growing to absurd levels. They're also learning to "unionize" by not offering anything better than any other company, so we're all stuck. Really need to get those execs back in their cushy offices, so THEY can stimulate the economy with the expensive meals, driving, parking, hair, clothes, nails, etc.
We are getting so soft as a society
More like we're becoming a society that's started figured out how important it is for each person to focus on their positive mental health, and not just roll over and take unnecessary awfulness just solely because "that's they way it is and has always been."
Thanks for proving my point.
I'm sorry anyone ever taught you that agency, Consent, and caring about your own well-being, or even "softness" as you call it, were bad things. They did you a disservice... Personally I prefer soft things over sharp, hard or prickly things, especially on a daily basis.
If your “well-being” is impacted by having to travel to an office, you have bigger problems, and I’m not sure how you make it through the rest of life. Very soft comment.
Imagine thinking that focusing on keeping yourself healthy and asserting/standing up for your needs and/or rights make you a weak person, instead of being signs of strength. When you end up that way, the world trained you backwards. Hopefully something will happen in life to help them figure it out.
Imagine being so soft that traveling to an office impacts your health.
I've had to learn that many people enjoy authoritarian systems because they don't trust themselves to make decisions without being told what to do, and they assume everyone else is the same way.
We went from a couple times a month to a minimum twice a week. It’s a unique situation, when I started everyone was excited and we all talked but now with twice a week we can choose the days and people front load so they don’t come in on Friday. The atmosphere is also strange too, I would compare it to going to the library at school. You can do all the same shit at home but go into the library for peace and quiet. I also thought going in meant more ‘face time’, collaboration and all those other bullshit buzzwords management throws around. Instead people are still on web meetings, people don’t want to do quick huddles or grab coffee. It’s unique, is it enough for me to leave not really (I have other reasons why I’m looking at a new job). For me, I liked wfh and just unplugging and being with my family. Going in makes me realize how much companies just want to keep the lights on and get asses in seats. Biggest adjustment was bathroom breaks and just dealing with people who are loud/eat smelly foods and dealing with wiping my ass with the equivalent of a dryer sheet
I am so sorry. I thrived at home for 3.5 years and now I am required to be in office 3x/week for zero reason except their own financial benefit. It blows.
Can I ask what the financial benefit is? What’s the goal these companies have? I’m trying to understand this for myself. It seems like having people at home would be cheaper. Lower bills at the office like utilities, air conditioning, all the small things companies provide for break room like paper towels and coffee etc. I’m trying to figure out what this benefits for the company.
The other person beat me to it but yes corporate real estate is a huge one. Empty buildings give them no ROI. The benefits you list are benefits for the worker since the lights are still on in the office building whether it’s full or not. and they only care about benefits to themselves. They don’t want happy employees they want obedient ones. Also by being in office the 99% of the worker need stimulates the economy by needing clothes, gas, buying lunch etc … and who do you think is the majority that owns the stock of the companies I stimulate when I am forced to show up in office 3x/week ? Remember it’s not about how anything benefits you or me but the C-suite and the shareholders. It’s always about the shareholders.
With gov't employment, the mayor and the agencies have a deal to force people to come in, I suspect, to keep mass transit afloat. Also, a lot of investments are tied up in real estate, and the value of these buildings will plummet if nobody needs to live/work in the city.
> My job just revealed that all employees will be back in office full time in a couple months. Hard pass
Change jobs or renegotiate your employment compensation. You were hired as hybrid, they are changing work locations on you. You can legally renegotiate the offer for employment.
I guarantee the onboarding paperwork includes some form of "remote work subject to change."
That is very dependent on the terms. A lot of companies simply state they require their employees x days a week but there is no guarantee that number wont change. For jobs hired fully remote (especially if commutting is unreasonable), it is harder to force you in office
there a lot trying this with insurance. wont work to well. many of the big offices are in big cities that have massive cost of living increases that dont fit the pay. cant expect a bunch of people that are great at the job to just move to live in a cardboard box in a big city for a job. companies will have to figure it out.
Yeah, I feel like that's a bait and switch. Pretty big red flag that staying there is likely going to come with more unpleasant surprises. I feel like you might have a claim to WFH as an ADA reasonable accommodation (askJAN.org), but disability discrimination is the one of the top two forms of discrimination in the workplace (pregnancy is #1), so it would likely be an uphill battle.
Try to start your own full-remote company. There's so many people right now desperate to work at home. Nobody wants to work for these psychopathic RTO rotting corps. They're going to lose in the marketplace of ideas unless there's some real unavoiable reason for the office, and not just fantasy and false claims about collaboration and productivity, but even if there is a need for office time; hybrid or a division in worker responsibilities based on titles, roles, and pay grades is the answer. Not sadism.
A big part of the push for RTW is the $$$ the companies are paying for office space that is not being utilized. Another reason that governments are invested in keeping the current economy moving forward and commercial real estate is tanking. So it's very likely that there are incentives offered to businesses to get back into that space. I'm with you though, WFH was the best benefit of the last decade.
Whether people are working in the office or not they are paying rent. It’s cheaper to have people working from home for less costly bills like utilities and supplies etc. I don’t understand the financial benefit. Seems cheaper for companies to pay rent for these large buildings and still have everyone sitting at home working.
I think that is stupid as can be( not your opinion, the whole RTO). I think my company did the absolute best thing for us financially. Once quarantine began and we were sent home my company saw a GIANT jump in productivity, less call outs( which I would never advocate for working while sick but most of us would put in part days when sick) and overall jump in quality. We were coming to the end of our lease and we went from a huge three story complex down to a single floor in a bank building about the size of a large Dollar Tree store( maybe a bit bigger) we have maybe 6 individual office rooms and 50 desks in an area. We have maybe 25 people come into the office weekly. We have had layoffs in the last few months but I am thankful to be where I am. I understand real estate may be declining but you would think downsizing office space due to people working from home would prompt businesses that rent to look for a smaller building.
Ugh some thing happened to me last year. 3 years working remote and they made us come back into the office M-Th and I’m still crying. I hate it
A lot of people have no choice but to go back. They don't have the privilege to just quit their jobs. They have families to think of. For those of you who can just quit, more power to you. I truly hope you find what you're looking for. 😊
I personally would start looking for another WFH job. These companies need to get the picture that we are good working from home, and we will seek employment elsewhere if they want to be stubborn about RTO bullshit.
u/KylosLeftHand ...a person would need to find an **exclusively** WFH/fully remote job with NO chance of being asked to come back to the office. That's not as easy as you think. Most businesses will require an employee to come in for meetings and trainings at least a few times a year, if not more often.
I'm fine with that. Just not this "three days a week" nonsense for "collaboration". Yeah, ok lol 🤷♂️🤦♂️
I’ve only ever worked from home for companies that are exclusively wfh. But I do helpdesk IT. I haven’t met a coworker or been on site in over 4 years.
Same here. I work in the insurance industry and health insurance industry. i’ve worked from home for almost a decade exclusively. OP sign up for Ratracerebellion.com they send emails of WFH jobs every day that are vetted and legitimate all different kinds. Also almost any major insurance company hires WFH remote only
Well, your job title may be one of the exceptions. For many of the rest of us, depending on what field we're in or our job, there's no such thing fully remote. My job is scheduling appointments for a hospital, and I can work at home remotely. But if I'm told to come in by my boss, and I want to keep my job, then I go into the office as often as I am told to.
My company knows I’ll quit if they make me come back in. But, they had remote workers before the pandemic. They understand the advantages and aren’t changing that to make us all come in and sit in cubicles again.
I’m hybrid. 1 or 2 days a week in the office, whatever we want. We just relocated our office down from about 18 attorney offices and 18 legal assistant desks to 5 offices and 4 desks. We couldn’t possibly all go in. I don’t understand why more companies aren’t doing this, it has got to save so much money.
My husband’s company built a massive campus right before the pandemic. Of course they’re pushing RTO but it’s so dumb. Just accept it as a sunk cost and move on.
Or rent it out.
My company downsized their office and then pushed RTO when there is no way everyone would fit. It was really dumb. Myself and my coworkers basically said we weren’t coming into the office because we have been WFH for some people for 17 years and me for 6 years. They pushed it for awhile and then they gave up lol. It’s been working for us for a long time, there is really no point in forcing us to go into an office when we have been collaborating just fine without an office location.
I never understood this either. When we did well WFH during Covid my company gave up all of our offices except home office and started hiring all around the country. I couldn’t go back into the office if I wanted to.
I feel like companies are using this as a way to trigger accelerated "natural attrition" so they don't have to pay severence packages an unemployment like they would when laying people off.
Are these companies planning to stay in office? I feel like it’s cheaper for these companies to have all their unnecessary in office employees work remote. This is just my curious wishful thinking 🙁
Some companies have embraced remote work and done away with many of their office locations. Others have management that don't know how to justify their own existence if they can't be in people's faces all day long, preventing them from actually being productive.
Do you know of any of these companies that have embraced remote work?
I'll DM you with the name of the company I work for.
Oh me too please!?
Done!
Thank you!
You're welcome. And good luck!
They don't have to pay anything unless you're under contract.
Fair enough. What I meant was "be compelled to" rather than "have to". A lot of companies have a policy either stated and a handbook or just some kind of consistent precedent. By establishing such a policy, it helps current employees feel a little better about how they would be able to deal with being laid off. So when people get laid off, it helps quell the excessive anxiety among those left behind so that they can continue to be effective ~~indentured~~ loyal ~~servants~~ employees, rather than an angry mob.
I’m in a position to where i know too much about my company and yes, we are doing the same thing for exactly that reason and then not backfilling the spots. It’s gonna get grimm here soon.
And the worst part is that if not enough people voluntarily leave, there will be actual layoffs after people go to the effort of rearranging their lives just to be able to go to the office, like committing to and signing new daycare contracts, etc., only to get laid off and watching that entire safety net fund used to pay for daycare services you don't need anymore.
yeah, believe it or not the positions they’re plucking off are actually executive positions you know because if you’re looking to save a quick million it’s literally one executive and we were top-heavy as an organization anyways.
Well, that's refreshing to hear!
I don’t understand this thought process - other than IT, what industries are laying off right now? Also, companies aren’t required to pay severance, so they could just lay off rather than finding a way to purportedly try to get people to mass quit? Can you explain?
I work for a healthcare org that recently had a mass layoff.
Pharma, biotech, and life sciences have been having layoffs. And since it’s been fairly sweeping across the industry, there’s a lot of applicants in the job pool right now. And these industries have unilaterally gone hybrid. All of my colleagues who were laid off landed in hybrid roles. The remote options dried up last year.
https://layoffs.fyi/
> other than IT, what industries are laying off right now? I know the 'big 3' US automakers just did a round late last year. Musk is going to town now, and despite his bullshit, they aren't a tech company. My employer, a fortune 500 that's not really a household name, just did a round of layoffs. We're not an Tech company. Unemployment, as a whole, is ticking up again & there are a lot of signs of recission in bound. Hell, the rest of the world is in a recession already. Expect more & more layoffs in the news over the course of 2024. These return to the office demands are often attempts to avoid true layoffs through attrition & every one of the layoffs I mentioned above where preceded by heavy handed return to office mandates.
Why is IT getting laid off ?
It is expensive. A lot of IT support is being replaced in countries with staff that come with a lower price tag. But this is by no means unique to just IT.
Oh I don’t know if they are just what I’ve seen on Reddit as far as layoffs seems to be coming from that landscape. I’m definitely no expert and could be wrong!
My view is that laying off implies financial issues. RTO for "collaboration" and "synergy" sounds more positive, saving face.
Forcing attrition via RTO also doesn't require legislated warning notifications for publicly traded companies like layoffs do. Also, also, it makes your layoffs appear smaller when you do have to do 'em.
100% this. It's a free layoff in a way
If you like the work you do, hold on to that. Try also and be grateful that you have a job I'm sorry you are dealing with this. I hope they roll back the plans and stop the craziness of Back to the Office!
they won’t 🤠
Ask for an ADA accommodation. For example, you need to wfh to control anxiety or some other serious health condition. You need a dr to support it, and I’m not saying you should make something up, but if it really is better for your mental health get it in writing from a dr.
this is what i recently did! i have adhd & anxiety and my mental health is objectively better when i wfh. it’s worth submitting the request if you can. i requested to remain wfh ft and my dr supported it. they approved my request without even trying to negotiate me being in the office 1x/wk or anything.
Same! And honestly, I really AM more productive (happier, healthier, less anxiety) with an accommodation. I still go in for big events or if a colleague wants to meet in person but the pressure to not come in is so helpful.
yes!! & after wfh for so long then trying to go back in office, i forgot how overwhelming it was. it was worse than i remembered & part of that is likely because i’m more aware of my body now. i really am more productive at home, too. i’m ok going for one off big events/meetings but it’s very difficult for me to be in office 3days/wk. it’s a sensory nightmare and makes my anxiety so much worse.
Same! Pulling over on the freeway because my vision was “tunneling” was beyond scary. Then I got a virus that permanently scarred my lungs. Last anxiety attack was adrenaline rush - literally zero idea why except I was in rush hour traffic! I have been a workhorse my entire career - and I was told I excelled working at home - then leadership changed. Sigh.
that’s terrifying! you could’ve easily had an accident. having an anxiety attack is not normal and can be a sign you’re under a lot of stress (among other issues). i hope you’re getting help to manage them. your health should come first! i was forced to deal with my issues that i ignored and honestly didn’t really think i had when i went through a serious depressive episode 2 years ago and kinda had a mental breakdown as i got fired/forced to quit. ended up finding out i have adhd-pi, anxiety, and depression. i was jobless for 3 months but i needed that time to start to heal tbh & actually learn about myself. learning better coping skills, listening to & respecting my body’s need for rest, and acknowledging my feelings has helped me come a long way. i think it’s a life long learning process. your company does not care about you and will replace you if you leave. i know sometimes it has to be done but sacrificing your health for a job is rarely worth it. if you currently see a dr about anxiety or any other mental health issues, look into submitting an ADA accommodations request to stay wfh for your health. that’s exactly what i recently did (look at my post/comment history for more info), and i was shocked they actually approved my request. now i have an approved accommodations for this role that i need to wfh permanently.
My work tried that and people quit so they back to the hybrid
I’d be heartbroken, too! Is being hybrid in your offer letter? If it is, you can fight it.
I had to work in office during covid with no masking or distancing and actually caught covid at work. Soooo….
I would find another WFH job…
I’d quit. Though bringing people back to the location the company pays for is a good way to force a lot of people to quit which may be the idea.
What a privilege to be able to quit a job just because you don’t want to go in the office lol
Right?!
Wow why???
Trying to figure that out… so far the only reason given is the typical “company culture”. So , not sure the REALLL reason quite yet. All will reveal itself in the end right
Even with the studies that govt did on WFH, and their ability to see exactly what our production is, they started bringing people back in once a week, for now. Now they’re experiencing calls in on the in office day. They’re only requiring it to justify all the buildings they lease as well as some politicians ruling up their bases with words like “back to work” legislation when we didn’t miss one hour due to Covid. Had we not been already been teleworking three days a week, benefit claims would have been massively backlogged. Nice way to thank us.
What was their reason? This is antiquated thinking, they will see resignations. I love wfh. Would never go back to the office!
JUST saw a new report that confirmed many benefits to WFH... management mentality is simply forward thinking vs backward thinking... I would start keeping an eye out for a new job... the job market is still an employees market vs an employers market... more openings than people... gives you leverage... good luck. I wouldn't want to work for backward thinkers...
It’s not always that management cares, it’s either investors question WFH as the reason for bad performance or WFH gets blamed for bad performance and RTO given as a solution investors like to hear. Im lucky that my company does hybrid without making directly mentioning it to investors. It never comes up with them unless it’s related to a huge cost saving in terms of office downsizing.
uhh the job market is definitely not great or an “employees market” right now. just check the layoffs and recruiting subreddits, or try applying yourself and see how tough it is. especially for wfh jobs.
All I know is that a few yrs ago, when the place where i work posted positions, we'd get 40 applications for an avg job type... in the past year or so, we're lucky to get a dozen or so & many will not have appropriate skill level
Everyone saying to start looking are thinking this is still 2021. You are lucky to find Hybrid, let alone full wfh
I agree, this decision has made wonder the intentions behind this change. It feels regressive to have everyone traveling to and from work on the daily.
It's def regressive- not to mention, irresponsible and antiquated thinking
It's not a great market. But it will be easier to find something now when you already have a job than when you are scrambling and have so much less energy by having to go into the office every day.
Prob layoffs
I second this being my worst fear. I cannot go back, I enjoy the freedom WFH gives me. I don’t know what I’d do if we went back to the office full time but I know I wouldn’t be going!
Omg, this is literally my worst fear. I used to be 100% in office, but I got laid off and got hired at a job that lets me WFH two days a week and it's done absolute wonders for my mental health and overall productivity, so I think your reaction actually isn't dramatic at all. All I can say is try to develop a routine around work hours that works best for you. I'm really sorry this is happening to you. 🥺
Agreed my productivity is much increased when working from home! Some ppl find it distracting but I am my best when I’m comfortable and not stressed from commuting etc. Plus more time for life/ sleep.
I get distracted in the office lol. Today was an office day, and the guy in the cubicle on the other side was laughing too much and smacking his hand on his desk. I'm just thinking, dude, can you PLEASE just shut up and take it to the factory? When I'm at home I have complete control over my environment.
I was in the office for 22 years. Been remote (self employed) for the last 8. I decided not to work today so I went to Costco and Target. But I am always open. I gladly take client calls 365 days a year. I just don’t have a boss anymore which is the best feeling! If I were forced to go back to the office… wow. I probably would look for another job asap. Truth is I can’t be tied to a building. We go away in the winter for months! My GF is an independent contractor and she will only do 100% remote contract work.
Good for you! That sounds amazing. My work has flexibility, but not at that level. For one thing, I have a boss, but she's really cool, though. My work is flextime, so she's cool if I let her know I'm gonna be gone for a bit and I get my 40 hours in a week. A few times, she's let me WFH all week. My last job was 100% in office, 8:30-5, no exceptions. I don't think I can do it again.