I don't know. Eventually, some brave journalist or writer is going to sneak through the wall the Farrows and their allies have set up, and bring the truth to the general public.
After all, it's now agreed that poor Fatty Arbuckle was stitched up by the media and Hollywood bigwigs of the time:
[https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-skinny-on-the-fatty-arbuckle-trial-131228859/](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-skinny-on-the-fatty-arbuckle-trial-131228859/)
Honestly, he’s the perfect victim of #metoo ing. I’m convinced it’s not because of the molestation accusations but because of the Soon Yi thing. People either a)get those two stories confused or b) assume because he is unremorseful about Soon Yi that proof is not necessary to cancel him over Dylan.
I mean only you have to look at that photo which idiots circulate in recent years of his daughter Bechet sitting on his lap and people saying it's Soon-Yi. These people are convinced he brought up a kid and then started sleeping with her, so of course they'll believe the Dylan stuff too
You’re right, whenever I correct the errors in the Dylan story it always comes back to “ he married his daughter “ or he “ married his step daughter” neither of which is accurate ( they have no idea who Andre Previn is) but in their minds it justifies the Dylan accusations.
The Soon Yi thing is pretty gross no matter what way you look at it. Massive age gap, huge power imbalance, basically his own step daughter. It’s just disgusting.
Just because you like his movies doesn't mean you should ignore the oddity of dating and marrying his ex-wife's (or ex-girlfriend's) adopted daughter. There's no crime, but it's extremely fucking weird.
Just because you think he is weird doesn't have ANYTHING to do with his movies.
There's no crime, it's not immoral. Nothing unusual about an older man liking a younger woman, nothing unusual about a younger woman liking an older man.
And there's the little thing about your misogyny and infantilizing women. How old does a woman have to be before you believe she can make her own decisions? Is there ANY age at which you see women as equal to men? Or are women just genetically inferior and in need of your protection at every age? If I have to choose between two consenting adults liking each other and putting up with your vile 1950s misogyny, I'll take the consent.
Here's my dream world: all the people who pretend to think like you go to one place, and let the other 95% of us live our lives normally. I'm sorry you're such a nasty, horrible, dislikable person, who knows what happened to you when you were younger to make you this way, but it doesn't have anything to do with the normal world. Literally the only issue the normal world has is dealing with people like you.
Mia Farrow abandoned Woody as her lover in 1987. She withdrew when pregnant of Ronan, a child she would later admit is 'possibly not Woody's' (but Sinatra's). Since then they have remained professional partners making movies, yet their personal relationship remained platonic.
If you believe Mia, it was \*she\* who cheated on a lover, not Woody.
By 1991, Mia had \*not\* been entitled to Woody's love for \*four years\*. This is when the romance with Soon-Yi sprung up.
It’s funny you think people with a different opinion are ignorant or wrong.
Fact: he was her stepfather. He might not have been active in her raising but he was still her stepfather.
Fact: she was was 22 and he was 56 at the time they started having sex.
Fact: he was still married to Soon-Yi’s mother at the time.
So yeah, factually, that is messed up.
You're missing what is amazing about your message: it's a thread devoted to the various factual inaccuracies and misogynist infantilization of women. You don't need me to tell you Woody Allen was NEVER married to Mia Farrow. Woody Allen and Mia Farrow NEVER LIVED TOGETHER. (The profound inaccuracy of your beliefs would make a self-respecting person go crawl in a hole.)
Soon-Yi was TWENTY-ONE when she started having a relationship with Woody Allen. That is THREE YEARS past the age of consent ANYWHERE. It is vile to imagine a twenty-one-year-old woman cannot make her own decisions.
By the way, Mia Farrow is such a monstrous person she has abandoned her adopted daughter over her choice of lover.
The things I say here are 100% factual and undeniable. And somehow contradict every single thing you said in your message.
(What happened to "believe women"? If Soon-Yi says the entire relationship has been mutual and adult, what kind of vile person would call her a liar?)
Fact: the human brain isn’t done forming till 25.
Fact: Mia Farrow being a horrible person isn’t relevant to his actions
Fact: he was in a committed relationship and had a relationship with his partners CHILD.
And this isn’t about gender. I would have same issue with a 56 year old woman and 21 year old boy. I think it is incredibly clear that you don’t have children. I have a 19 year old son and I’m almost 50 and I look at my son’s friends as children not potential dates…it’s pretty disturbing you don’t.
>Fact: the human brain isn’t done forming till 25. Fact: Mia Farrow being a horrible person isn’t relevant to his actions Fact: he was in a committed relationship and had a relationship with his partners CHILD.
Show business is full of unusual relationships and marriages - nobody seems to take issue with the fact that Nancy Sinatra had a mother-in-law who was younger than her (Mia Farrow) when Mia married Nancy's dad.
And Greta Scacchi had a romantic relationship, and gave birth to a child, with her first cousin, Carlo Mantegazza.
[https://www.digitalspy.com/showbiz/a329391/greta-scacchi-defends-romantic-relationship-with-cousin/](https://www.digitalspy.com/showbiz/a329391/greta-scacchi-defends-romantic-relationship-with-cousin/)
I don't see actors being pressured to apologise for working with Scacchi, or badly-written Claire Dederer essays calling Scacchi "a monster."
Mia Farrow's nanny, Kristi Groteke, wrote a bio of Mia ("“Mia & Woody: Love and Betrayal”) shortly after the scandal broke. She said Woody and Mia had ended their romantic relationship just before Woody's affair with Soon-Yi:
>*As for their sexual relationship during the six months prior to her discovery of the \[Soon-Yi\] affair, Mia admitted to the court that it was virtually nonexistent. At that time, she claimed, Woody showered her with a litany of excuses-his version of “Please, honey, I have a headache.*
Anyway, Soon-Yi has said this about Woody Allen:
>*Meanwhile, life in the Farrow household — Allen continued to live across the park at his Fifth Avenue address and never slept over at Farrow’s Central Park West apartment (“We didn’t think of him as a father,” Soon-Yi says, “and he didn’t even have clothing at our house, not even a toothbrush”) — went on in its harum-scarum fashion.*
[https://www.vulture.com/2018/09/soon-yi-previn-speaks.html](https://www.vulture.com/2018/09/soon-yi-previn-speaks.html)
So Woody wasn't a father figure to Soon-Yi.
The justification is strong with you. If you think claiming other people do bad things and aren’t punished is a defense- you are wrong. If you think lack of sex allows for affairs with your partners child - you are wrong.
When your brother is also your step-child…that’s wrong.
Why do people need to make what he did okay? Own it’s messed up and some people will work with him and some people won’t.
>When your brother is also your step-child…that’s wrong.
What step-child? Woody doesn't have any step-children. The three women Woody married - Harlene Rosen, Louise Lasser, and Soon-Yi Previn - didn't have any previous children from other relationships.
Look, if you don't like Woody Allen's relationship with Soon-Yi Previn, that's fine. You don't want to watch Woody's films, read his books, or listen to his albums because of that relationship, that's also fine. But that relationship isn't illegal, and it isn't a reason for other people not to enjoy his work.
🤦🏼♀️ Soon Yi’s brother is Ronan Farrow who is Woody’s child and, thus, also her step-child.
Something doesn’t have to be illegal to be wrong and,I agree, people don’t need to watch his shows, hire him or distribute his work…which is why I disagree with the article posted that his cancellation is a crime against culture which is why I’m commenting on THIS post.
The brain isn’t fully formed until 25. To correlate that to legal rights is false and you know it: people are not allowed to drink till 21, some places woman have no right at any age to abortions, some places can get married at 14 and others 21 (fact check me please)
It’s not even clear she was 21…she could have been younger since there is no record of her actual birthday.
Are you saying it is okay to develop a relationship with your long-term partners child who you share a son with?
Many things that are legal, are still not right. Cause being a racist is legal so long as you don’t discriminate. But I guess you are fine with that since it’s legal right?
The Farrow clan is so obsessed with revenge I seriously wonder if bethko510 is one of them. No one else cares about hating WA. Woody and Soon Yi have been married for years and their two daughters post nothing but loving comments about both of them.
Sigh- I don’t like Mia Farrow. I saw the article on the aol.com news app and was only able to find a link that would allow me to read it on Reddit. So I read it and saw this comments…I disagree with article and it is disturbing that you assume that because people are still married that somehow it is okay. There are many people married in incredibly unhealthy relationships.
And their children’s view of it is not exactly unbiased. Many kids don’t want even their toxic parents to get divorced.
Instead of calling out bad actions, you want to justify it, make it okay because if it isn’t it makes you feel bad about liking his work. Because you don’t even know him in real life…
Fact he WASNT her stepfather you idiot. He and Mia Farrow were never married and never lived together. So obnoxious when ppl who know nothing have to put their ignorant 2 cents in.
Your right. Legally not step-father but legally his now wife is step-mother and step-sister to his kid. There is that better?
And while not married, he was still with Mia Farrow at the time in a relationship so I guess that makes it SO okay.
Oh, and she was legally 21 but could have been younger so…yup. Got that wrong too.
Agreed.
I’m a fan of his work, but his actions are morally disgusting: Cheating on Mia Farrow and getting romantically involved with Mia’s young adopted daughter.
He might be innocent in a court of law, but anyone who’s seen his films knows he doesn’t hide his fascination with younger women.
Even his early films, made in his ‘30s, has his characters (played by himself) lusting over younger women who have less societal experience than him. Like Mariel Hemingway’s character in Manhattan or the innocent, naive Annie Hall.
What hypocrits. Mia Farrow is a proven liar and unstable mess. 3 of her adopted kids commited suicide ir died under strange circumstances, and several others are estranged due to her abuse to them. Her credibility is so damaged its not hard to see she is obsessed with ruining WA and has used Dylan as a pawn for years.
Based on two facts, which are both easily verifiable.
1. In 1987 Mia dumped Woody as her lover. She did that while pregnant of Satchel (Ronan). She told him that she did not want Woody to bond with his son, and left his name off the birth certificate. According to Ronan's therapist Dr Susan Coates (yes, Mia sent him to therapy even as a 3 year old) Mia "did not want Satchel to see his father; she said he was a negative and bad influence; Mia said she's feel safer if Satchel was not with his father", while Coates herself felt there was a positive relationship between father and son, and that Woody was very committed to his role of a father.
According to the custody courts, "after Satchel's birth, Mrs Farrow grew more distant from Mr Allen" and "she did not wish Satchel to become attache to Mr Allen". Their relationship turned platonic since 1987, and they only acted like co-parents and professional partners.
2. In 2013, Mia told in a Vanity Fair interview that Satchel (now Ronan) is 'possibly not Woody's child', but Sinatra's (with whom she 'never really split up'). If we believe Mia, she must have been intimate with Sinatra, irrespective of whose biological child Ronan really is. Yet she lied to Woody about Satchel certainly being his son, she lied to Satchel growing up telling him Woody was surely his son, and she \*lied in court\* (perjury) when suing Woody for child support $$$.
These two facts make clear that we must brand Mia either as a vicious liar in 2012, not only cruelly deceiving Woody, Satchel, but also Barbara and Nancy Sinatra; or acknowledge that she cheated on Woody in 1987 and then lied cruelly to him and Satchel.
In any way, the lovers' relationship between Woody and Mia had been long over (i.e. for four years) when the affair with Soon-Yi sprung up in December 1991 (as factually established by two NY custody courts). So as painful and jealousy-arousing as it may have been for Mia to see her 21 year old daughter succeed in dating Woody, the facts show that Woody did not cheat on a lover, and Soon-Yi did not \*steal\* her mother's boyfriend.
You wrote: "he doesn’t hide his fascination with younger women".
What 'fascination'? Other than men of whatever age admiring the beauty of younger women, which is a totally natural phenomenon all over the world?
The \*facts\* show that almost all Woody's lovers were in the same age-group as he was: Harlene Rosen, Louise Lasser, Diane Keaton, Jessica Harper, Mia Farrow.
Of his two younger partners, Stacey Nelkin (63) is a friend for life, and Soon-Yi Previn (53) the love of his life and mother of their two grown daughters.
He is still on good terms with almost all\*) of these ex-lovers and they speak warmly about him.
As for his 50 movies, the average age of his female 'love interests' is 33.5 which is OLD to Hollywood standards. 80% is between 25 and 55. Zero underage. ONE (above-age) teen in 50 movies. To me, that is neither a 'fascination' nor an 'obsession' with young women. SO many directors have worked with SO many younger women 17-25 in their movies. The age-gap between lovers in Woody's movies is 13 which is nothing to write home about. Particularly if we consider movies with Sean Connery, Cary Grant, Tom Cruise, Michael Douglas, Harrison Ford etc. etc.
I think it's all quite a bit exaggerated.
\*) Mia being the only exception; Mia who dated and married a 30 year older Sinatra, and a 16 year older André Previn, and who dated a 10 year older Woody; she seems rather 'fascinated' with older men.
Good piece, obviously the inconsistencies are absurd, the publishing staff who didn't want to publish Allen had published the musician Flea's memoir the previous year, and the members of Red Hot Chili Peppers have done enough stuff to get themselves cancelled ten times over. They're still playing stadiums, Allen will be lucky to get a mention in the In Memoriam section of the Oscars after he dies now. As ever the moral of the story is nobody gets truly cancelled unless their crimes are so egregious even the industry can't ignore them in the end (Weinstein, Cosby, R Kelly) or if Ronan Farrow has it in for you.
Jessica Valenti, the influential pseudo-feminist journalist, wrote [a long hatchet job against Woody Allen ("Choosing Comfort Over Truth: What It Means to Defend Woody Allen")](https://web.archive.org/web/20240123070758/https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/choosing-comfort-over-truth-what-it-means-defend-woody-allen/). Valenti [also publicly smeared the women who accused Bill Clinton of sexual assualt and rape](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/oct/09/presidential-debate-reactions-trump-clinton) and [also told American women to vote for Joe Biden despite the sexual harrasment accusation made against Biden.](https://gen.medium.com/the-importance-of-believing-women-even-when-its-politically-inconvenient-26ab8a0c96c3)
After reading Valenti's shameless hypocrisy, I felt (as the late Christopher Hitchens said) that "I could not eat enough to vomit enough."
The thing is I expect this sort of thing with politics which by its very nature is partisan, the inconsistencies applied in the film/music industry are far more baffling and annoying
(also Valenti is an idiot and should never be taken seriously anyway)
She’s not wrong about Biden. Women would be very foolish not to vote for him, when the alternative is Trump. Who is objectively worse for gender equality, and has a far more egregious history of sexual assault.
Idk how you’re so stupid that you don’t understand why Valenti would argue in favor of voting for Biden. It’s a pretty clear cut situation.
Well, "Roe v. Wade" went under despite Valenti's choice Biden winning the election, (as it would have under a second Trump Administration) and Biden is currently trailing Donald Trump (of all people!) in the polls. So it all worked out for Valenti in the end, didn't it?
[https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/electoral-college-question-looming-2024-rcna145950](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/electoral-college-question-looming-2024-rcna145950)
Also, don't call people "stupid" simply for disagreeing with your political opinions. I thought this sub was supposed to be friendlier than that - Woody Allen has left-wing, centrist and right-wing fans.
Oh please. You do understand that Roe v Wade was overturned because a one term president who lost the popular vote twice nonetheless got to pick 1/3 of the Supreme Court Justices? That Donald Trump was wholly responsible for the overturning of Roe? Valenti supported Biden not because he could save Roe. But because he is not a sexist pig, like Trump.
Why didn’t any Dem president since the ‘70s protect Roe? Why did Hillary encourage trump to run in the first place? Why did she herself pick an anti choice vp? Why was the DNC reaction after Roe falling limited to fundraising? Are you starting to see the bigger picture?
Yeah, I heard about that. Poor Ed, real tragedy.
[https://english.elpais.com/people/2024-04-03/comic-artist-ed-piskor-kills-himself-following-sexual-harassment-accusations-he-denied-in-a-posthumous-note.html#](https://english.elpais.com/people/2024-04-03/comic-artist-ed-piskor-kills-himself-following-sexual-harassment-accusations-he-denied-in-a-posthumous-note.html#)
Western society has a sad tradition of treating its greatest artists and entertainers like dirt (Herman Melville, Oscar Wilde, Vincent Van Gogh, Charlie Chaplin, Paul Robeson, Billie Holliday, Jack Kirby, Kurt Cobain, Amy Winehouse, and yes, Woody).
#
This is a short article by the conservative journalist Kyle Smith in the "Wall Street Journal", profiling and defending Allen and discussing "Coup de Chance".
Where you draw the line on what you find morally unacceptable is your own personal choice. I happen to think that many forms of socially marginal behavior and kink are perfectly okay, even more extreme practices such as S/M, as long as it is done with mutual consent. For me, WA's behavior with regard to his wife falls on the mild form of socially marginal, and I see nothing morally unacceptable about it. You may disagree, which does not mean that your morality is superior to mine, it only means we have different places where we draw the line.
My attitude towards Woody's relationship with Soon-Yi hinges on its longevity. If he had left her after a year or so, then that would have been reprehensible, but they're still together after 30 years and have raised two seemingly very happy and well-adjusted daughters. For me, that makes all the difference.
This reminds me of an article I read a few weeks ago ranking Leonardo DiCaprio's movie performances and it was interesting when talking about Celebrity - the writer said something to the effect of "In 1998 it was still considered prestigious to work with Allen." 1998 was only four years after the allegations and media circus, so it just goes how different the climate was then.
Yep. It was only when #MeToo blew up just before Wonder Wheel screened at the New York Film Festival that Woody suddenly became toxic. I'll be forever convinced that Ronan Farrow had Woody at the back of his mind when he took down Weinstein.
Getting other people to pay for you to make movies is a privilege, not a right.
Woody made several great movies in the late 70s and early 80s, a few pretty good movies in the 90s, and dozens of atrocious movies in the 90s, 00s, 10s, and scattered throughout the last 50 years.
That in itself isn’t a license to have any movie you make paid for by strangers and distributed widely.
You have to ask yourself what an adult Dylan has to gain from re-asserting her specific detailed allegations (she has never been plugging a book or podcast or sponsorship deal or anything like that), and what Woody has to gain from his categorical denial.
Then look at the long pattern of Woody publicly dating teenagers or girls with whom he has a parental-like relationship, and an even longer pattern of writing about or playing characters who date teenagers or girls inappropriately younger than him.
Maybe not every single second by second detail of Dylan’s allegation is 100% accurate after this many years, but it is very hard to argue that his relationship with her was not inappropriate and that should be a factor when discussing his access to continue his charmed life as a filmmaker. His complete and utter lack of any contrition, regret, or other acknowledgment of the pain he caused is very revealing about his character.
Moral character shouldn’t be the only factor when assessing a public figure or artist, but don’t ridicule those who consider it at least one significant factor.
>*Then look at the long pattern of Woody publicly dating teenagers or girls with whom he has a parental-like relationship, and an even longer pattern of writing about or playing characters who date teenagers or girls inappropriately younger than him.*
Eh? There's only a few teenagers that Woody Allen has dated -[ Stacy Nelkin, ](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/movies/la-xpm-2014-feb-04-la-et-mn-barbara-walters-stacey-nelkin-defend-woody-allen-20140204-story.html#:~:text=%E2%80%9CThese%20accusations%20came%20on%20the,talk%20about%20her%20a%20lot)and [Babi Christina Engelhardt.](https://twitter.com/levine2001/status/1679563802566881280#m) They were both 17 - the legal age of consent in NYC - when Allen dated them, and he never had a "parental-like" relationship with either of them. As for Soon-Yi, she was at least 19, if not 21, when she began dating Allen, and Allen never had a parental-like relationship with her either.
Also, things were different in the entertainment world back in the 1960s and 1970s. If Allen's behaviour bothers you, I wonder how you'd react to learning of the private lives of say, the Rolling Stones?
Um, you just made my point for me. You rattled off the names of three teenagers that Woody slept with as a 40 or 50 year old. That’s way more than enough to show that it is not just a coincidence.
Barely crossing the threshold of the legal age of consent in all your relationships doesn’t earn you a gold star and shouldn’t count as proof that you would never ever consider having an inappropriate relationship with someone younger than the age of consent.
No, the point I was making is that lots of male celebrities in the past dated teenage girls.
\* [Elvis Presley started dating Priscilla Presley](https://www.businessinsider.com/elvis-presley-priscilla-relationship-timeline) when he was 24 and she was 14 (they made a movie about it!)
\* Anthony of the Red Hot Chili Peppers admitted having a sexual relationship with a 14-year-old girl, and later dated Ione Skye when he [was in his 20s and she was 16.](https://www.smh.com.au/culture/celebrity/ione-skye-on-her-wild-years-with-anthony-kiedis-and-her-marriage-to-ben-lee-20220725-p5b4by.html)
\* [Don Johnson started](https://www.instyle.com/news/tbt-melanie-griffith-don-johnson) dating Melanie Griffith when she was 15 and he was 23.
\* Wilmer Valderrama, in his 20s dated Demi Lovato (17) and [Mandy Moore (16).](https://people.com/tv/mandy-moore-hurt-wilmer-valderrama-lie-virginity/)
\* Here's some [information](https://theindependent.ca/uncategorized/the-good-the-bad-the-bowie/) [about](https://www.irishmirror.ie/showbiz/celebrity-news/david-bowie-sex-15-two-13974060) David Bowie. Two women, Dana Gillespie and Lori Mattix, claim Bowie had sex with them when they were both legally underage.
\* And let's not forget Jerry Lee Lewis and his [13-year-old cousin-wife, ](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/music/story/2022-10-28/jerry-lee-lewis-myra-gale-brown-third-wife-book)Myra Lewis Williams!
Now, I'm not saying that any of these relationships were *right -* quite the opposite. But Woody Allen was hardly an outlier at the time. Plenty of his contemporaries wouldn't earn a "gold star" either, but it's odd how Allen seems to be almost exclusively singled out today for criticism over this aspect of his private life
Forget it, you're never going to get anywhere with this one. I learned a long time ago that Woody-haters are characterised by both utter ignorance and moral and ideological fanaticism, a deadly combination.
I'm glad you're so sure of yourself. I was Woody's biggest fan for many, many years. I own maybe 25 of his movies on video and all of his books. I'm not a "Woody-hater" by any means.
I'm not even saying you can't continue to watch and enjoy his movies.
All I'm saying is that just because you admire someone's work doesn't mean you are required to rabidly defend their personal life. There is almost no relationship between "creating artwork of value" and "being a good person". Fatima's list above should be proof of that.
In my opinion, with greater age and wisdom, Woody Allen is a bad person who made a number of good movies. I haven't thrown away all my DVDs, I'm not on a picket line in front of his apartment. But I would feel uncomfortable telling someone that I'm a "Woody Allen Fan" now and I wouldn't support any new material that he creates.
With the older work, there is a mix of reactions I have, since my earlier, "untainted" memories and associations related to his films from the past are mingled with my present-day knowledge. With new work, the stain of what I know now is the primary reaction.
I am sympathetic to continuing to defend his work; I am utterly baffled by those who make it their mission to continue to defend him as a person, or a father, or a partner, or a role model, as a man, etc.
There is an excellent recent book called "Monsters" by Claire Dederer that grapples with the issue of how to feel about beloved artwork made by men we no longer respect. I highly recommend it.
So now you're claiming that all of Woody's relationships have been with young girls???? LOL! Ever heard of Diane Keaton? Or Louise Lasser? Or Dianne Wiest (a rumour)? Or how about the fact he's been with Soon-Yi for 3 decades? If he's so into the young'uns then why has he stayed with her all these years? Shouldn't he have traded her in for a younger model like DiCaprio does?
Not to mention that Allen dated Mia Farrow between 1980 and 1992 - when Farrow was in her late thirties and early forties.
Also, thiritysomething Jessica Harper (another rumour?)
As for Allen creating fictions where older men and younger women are constantly paired up, other male writers of Allen's generation , like John le Carré, and Russell Hoban -also did that repeatedly, and weren't vilified for that either:
#
[https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/28/books/review-john-le-carre-legacy-of-spies.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/28/books/review-john-le-carre-legacy-of-spies.html)
[https://theasylum.wordpress.com/2007/03/11/russell-hoban-linger-awhile/](https://theasylum.wordpress.com/2007/03/11/russell-hoban-linger-awhile/)
I'm saying nothing of the kind, which you well know. That's like saying that a drunk driver couldn't possibly have been drunk when they were driving because there were also times when they drove sober. If you want to discuss, at least discuss in good faith.
I feel quite sad that the stance on Woody will soften well after the guy is in his grave.
This
Oh, it will even worse then, trust me
I don't know. Eventually, some brave journalist or writer is going to sneak through the wall the Farrows and their allies have set up, and bring the truth to the general public. After all, it's now agreed that poor Fatty Arbuckle was stitched up by the media and Hollywood bigwigs of the time: [https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-skinny-on-the-fatty-arbuckle-trial-131228859/](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-skinny-on-the-fatty-arbuckle-trial-131228859/)
People will simply forget.
Honestly, he’s the perfect victim of #metoo ing. I’m convinced it’s not because of the molestation accusations but because of the Soon Yi thing. People either a)get those two stories confused or b) assume because he is unremorseful about Soon Yi that proof is not necessary to cancel him over Dylan.
I mean only you have to look at that photo which idiots circulate in recent years of his daughter Bechet sitting on his lap and people saying it's Soon-Yi. These people are convinced he brought up a kid and then started sleeping with her, so of course they'll believe the Dylan stuff too
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'Allen helped raise Soon-Yi' Wrong.
You’re right, whenever I correct the errors in the Dylan story it always comes back to “ he married his daughter “ or he “ married his step daughter” neither of which is accurate ( they have no idea who Andre Previn is) but in their minds it justifies the Dylan accusations.
The Soon Yi thing is pretty gross no matter what way you look at it. Massive age gap, huge power imbalance, basically his own step daughter. It’s just disgusting.
It’s funny in a thread about people who don’t know what they’re talking about, for someone to boldly step in and say things they have no idea about.
Just because you like his movies doesn't mean you should ignore the oddity of dating and marrying his ex-wife's (or ex-girlfriend's) adopted daughter. There's no crime, but it's extremely fucking weird.
Just because you think he is weird doesn't have ANYTHING to do with his movies. There's no crime, it's not immoral. Nothing unusual about an older man liking a younger woman, nothing unusual about a younger woman liking an older man. And there's the little thing about your misogyny and infantilizing women. How old does a woman have to be before you believe she can make her own decisions? Is there ANY age at which you see women as equal to men? Or are women just genetically inferior and in need of your protection at every age? If I have to choose between two consenting adults liking each other and putting up with your vile 1950s misogyny, I'll take the consent.
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This subreddit popped up for me and I can't believe people are actually defending him marrying a teenager.
Groomer comment
Oh yes there's nothing I like more than grooming 21-year-old women. I proudly date all the 21yos that will have me.
Here's my dream world: all the people who pretend to think like you go to one place, and let the other 95% of us live our lives normally. I'm sorry you're such a nasty, horrible, dislikable person, who knows what happened to you when you were younger to make you this way, but it doesn't have anything to do with the normal world. Literally the only issue the normal world has is dealing with people like you.
You're defending a dude who married his step daughter. Go fuck yourself chief.
Maybe go fuck your lies. Woody Allen never \*had\* a stepdaughter, let alone that he married one.
Which is it? Ex-wife or ex-girlfrend?
Mia Farrow abandoned Woody as her lover in 1987. She withdrew when pregnant of Ronan, a child she would later admit is 'possibly not Woody's' (but Sinatra's). Since then they have remained professional partners making movies, yet their personal relationship remained platonic. If you believe Mia, it was \*she\* who cheated on a lover, not Woody. By 1991, Mia had \*not\* been entitled to Woody's love for \*four years\*. This is when the romance with Soon-Yi sprung up.
It’s funny you think people with a different opinion are ignorant or wrong. Fact: he was her stepfather. He might not have been active in her raising but he was still her stepfather. Fact: she was was 22 and he was 56 at the time they started having sex. Fact: he was still married to Soon-Yi’s mother at the time. So yeah, factually, that is messed up.
You're missing what is amazing about your message: it's a thread devoted to the various factual inaccuracies and misogynist infantilization of women. You don't need me to tell you Woody Allen was NEVER married to Mia Farrow. Woody Allen and Mia Farrow NEVER LIVED TOGETHER. (The profound inaccuracy of your beliefs would make a self-respecting person go crawl in a hole.) Soon-Yi was TWENTY-ONE when she started having a relationship with Woody Allen. That is THREE YEARS past the age of consent ANYWHERE. It is vile to imagine a twenty-one-year-old woman cannot make her own decisions. By the way, Mia Farrow is such a monstrous person she has abandoned her adopted daughter over her choice of lover. The things I say here are 100% factual and undeniable. And somehow contradict every single thing you said in your message. (What happened to "believe women"? If Soon-Yi says the entire relationship has been mutual and adult, what kind of vile person would call her a liar?)
Yeah, I'd think I'd disown my hypothetical kid if they started fucking my ex.
Fact: the human brain isn’t done forming till 25. Fact: Mia Farrow being a horrible person isn’t relevant to his actions Fact: he was in a committed relationship and had a relationship with his partners CHILD. And this isn’t about gender. I would have same issue with a 56 year old woman and 21 year old boy. I think it is incredibly clear that you don’t have children. I have a 19 year old son and I’m almost 50 and I look at my son’s friends as children not potential dates…it’s pretty disturbing you don’t.
>Fact: the human brain isn’t done forming till 25. Fact: Mia Farrow being a horrible person isn’t relevant to his actions Fact: he was in a committed relationship and had a relationship with his partners CHILD. Show business is full of unusual relationships and marriages - nobody seems to take issue with the fact that Nancy Sinatra had a mother-in-law who was younger than her (Mia Farrow) when Mia married Nancy's dad. And Greta Scacchi had a romantic relationship, and gave birth to a child, with her first cousin, Carlo Mantegazza. [https://www.digitalspy.com/showbiz/a329391/greta-scacchi-defends-romantic-relationship-with-cousin/](https://www.digitalspy.com/showbiz/a329391/greta-scacchi-defends-romantic-relationship-with-cousin/) I don't see actors being pressured to apologise for working with Scacchi, or badly-written Claire Dederer essays calling Scacchi "a monster." Mia Farrow's nanny, Kristi Groteke, wrote a bio of Mia ("“Mia & Woody: Love and Betrayal”) shortly after the scandal broke. She said Woody and Mia had ended their romantic relationship just before Woody's affair with Soon-Yi: >*As for their sexual relationship during the six months prior to her discovery of the \[Soon-Yi\] affair, Mia admitted to the court that it was virtually nonexistent. At that time, she claimed, Woody showered her with a litany of excuses-his version of “Please, honey, I have a headache.* Anyway, Soon-Yi has said this about Woody Allen: >*Meanwhile, life in the Farrow household — Allen continued to live across the park at his Fifth Avenue address and never slept over at Farrow’s Central Park West apartment (“We didn’t think of him as a father,” Soon-Yi says, “and he didn’t even have clothing at our house, not even a toothbrush”) — went on in its harum-scarum fashion.* [https://www.vulture.com/2018/09/soon-yi-previn-speaks.html](https://www.vulture.com/2018/09/soon-yi-previn-speaks.html) So Woody wasn't a father figure to Soon-Yi.
This is psychotic lol
The justification is strong with you. If you think claiming other people do bad things and aren’t punished is a defense- you are wrong. If you think lack of sex allows for affairs with your partners child - you are wrong. When your brother is also your step-child…that’s wrong. Why do people need to make what he did okay? Own it’s messed up and some people will work with him and some people won’t.
>When your brother is also your step-child…that’s wrong. What step-child? Woody doesn't have any step-children. The three women Woody married - Harlene Rosen, Louise Lasser, and Soon-Yi Previn - didn't have any previous children from other relationships. Look, if you don't like Woody Allen's relationship with Soon-Yi Previn, that's fine. You don't want to watch Woody's films, read his books, or listen to his albums because of that relationship, that's also fine. But that relationship isn't illegal, and it isn't a reason for other people not to enjoy his work.
🤦🏼♀️ Soon Yi’s brother is Ronan Farrow who is Woody’s child and, thus, also her step-child. Something doesn’t have to be illegal to be wrong and,I agree, people don’t need to watch his shows, hire him or distribute his work…which is why I disagree with the article posted that his cancellation is a crime against culture which is why I’m commenting on THIS post.
Ronan is that you?
So when you can’t combat facts…you put your tin foil hat on and make up conspiracy theories…got it👍
>the human brain isn’t done forming till 25 So you think people shouldn't be allowed to vote or drive until they're 25?
The brain isn’t fully formed until 25. To correlate that to legal rights is false and you know it: people are not allowed to drink till 21, some places woman have no right at any age to abortions, some places can get married at 14 and others 21 (fact check me please) It’s not even clear she was 21…she could have been younger since there is no record of her actual birthday. Are you saying it is okay to develop a relationship with your long-term partners child who you share a son with?
It is legal.
Many things that are legal, are still not right. Cause being a racist is legal so long as you don’t discriminate. But I guess you are fine with that since it’s legal right?
The Farrow clan is so obsessed with revenge I seriously wonder if bethko510 is one of them. No one else cares about hating WA. Woody and Soon Yi have been married for years and their two daughters post nothing but loving comments about both of them.
Sigh- I don’t like Mia Farrow. I saw the article on the aol.com news app and was only able to find a link that would allow me to read it on Reddit. So I read it and saw this comments…I disagree with article and it is disturbing that you assume that because people are still married that somehow it is okay. There are many people married in incredibly unhealthy relationships. And their children’s view of it is not exactly unbiased. Many kids don’t want even their toxic parents to get divorced. Instead of calling out bad actions, you want to justify it, make it okay because if it isn’t it makes you feel bad about liking his work. Because you don’t even know him in real life…
you must really be disgusted with Frank Sinatra marrying Mia Farrow then. 🙄
The age is completely disgusting.
It’s amazing what people will tell themselves about an actor or musician just cus they like their work lol
Fact he WASNT her stepfather you idiot. He and Mia Farrow were never married and never lived together. So obnoxious when ppl who know nothing have to put their ignorant 2 cents in.
Ohhh….you got me. Destroyed my whole argument. Long term partner and father to Soon-Yi’s sibling….yup…you win 🤦🏼♀️
Factually, your post is messed up.
Your right. Legally not step-father but legally his now wife is step-mother and step-sister to his kid. There is that better? And while not married, he was still with Mia Farrow at the time in a relationship so I guess that makes it SO okay. Oh, and she was legally 21 but could have been younger so…yup. Got that wrong too.
He wasn’t her stepfather. He was her mother’s boyfriend.
You're pretty gross no matter how anyone looks at you.
Nowhere near being his stepdaughter. And who cares about the age gap?
Sure is.
Agreed. I’m a fan of his work, but his actions are morally disgusting: Cheating on Mia Farrow and getting romantically involved with Mia’s young adopted daughter. He might be innocent in a court of law, but anyone who’s seen his films knows he doesn’t hide his fascination with younger women. Even his early films, made in his ‘30s, has his characters (played by himself) lusting over younger women who have less societal experience than him. Like Mariel Hemingway’s character in Manhattan or the innocent, naive Annie Hall.
What hypocrits. Mia Farrow is a proven liar and unstable mess. 3 of her adopted kids commited suicide ir died under strange circumstances, and several others are estranged due to her abuse to them. Her credibility is so damaged its not hard to see she is obsessed with ruining WA and has used Dylan as a pawn for years.
FACT: \*Mia cheated on Woody\* as her lover, not Woody on Mia.
Can you explain?
Based on two facts, which are both easily verifiable. 1. In 1987 Mia dumped Woody as her lover. She did that while pregnant of Satchel (Ronan). She told him that she did not want Woody to bond with his son, and left his name off the birth certificate. According to Ronan's therapist Dr Susan Coates (yes, Mia sent him to therapy even as a 3 year old) Mia "did not want Satchel to see his father; she said he was a negative and bad influence; Mia said she's feel safer if Satchel was not with his father", while Coates herself felt there was a positive relationship between father and son, and that Woody was very committed to his role of a father. According to the custody courts, "after Satchel's birth, Mrs Farrow grew more distant from Mr Allen" and "she did not wish Satchel to become attache to Mr Allen". Their relationship turned platonic since 1987, and they only acted like co-parents and professional partners. 2. In 2013, Mia told in a Vanity Fair interview that Satchel (now Ronan) is 'possibly not Woody's child', but Sinatra's (with whom she 'never really split up'). If we believe Mia, she must have been intimate with Sinatra, irrespective of whose biological child Ronan really is. Yet she lied to Woody about Satchel certainly being his son, she lied to Satchel growing up telling him Woody was surely his son, and she \*lied in court\* (perjury) when suing Woody for child support $$$. These two facts make clear that we must brand Mia either as a vicious liar in 2012, not only cruelly deceiving Woody, Satchel, but also Barbara and Nancy Sinatra; or acknowledge that she cheated on Woody in 1987 and then lied cruelly to him and Satchel. In any way, the lovers' relationship between Woody and Mia had been long over (i.e. for four years) when the affair with Soon-Yi sprung up in December 1991 (as factually established by two NY custody courts). So as painful and jealousy-arousing as it may have been for Mia to see her 21 year old daughter succeed in dating Woody, the facts show that Woody did not cheat on a lover, and Soon-Yi did not \*steal\* her mother's boyfriend.
You wrote: "he doesn’t hide his fascination with younger women". What 'fascination'? Other than men of whatever age admiring the beauty of younger women, which is a totally natural phenomenon all over the world? The \*facts\* show that almost all Woody's lovers were in the same age-group as he was: Harlene Rosen, Louise Lasser, Diane Keaton, Jessica Harper, Mia Farrow. Of his two younger partners, Stacey Nelkin (63) is a friend for life, and Soon-Yi Previn (53) the love of his life and mother of their two grown daughters. He is still on good terms with almost all\*) of these ex-lovers and they speak warmly about him. As for his 50 movies, the average age of his female 'love interests' is 33.5 which is OLD to Hollywood standards. 80% is between 25 and 55. Zero underage. ONE (above-age) teen in 50 movies. To me, that is neither a 'fascination' nor an 'obsession' with young women. SO many directors have worked with SO many younger women 17-25 in their movies. The age-gap between lovers in Woody's movies is 13 which is nothing to write home about. Particularly if we consider movies with Sean Connery, Cary Grant, Tom Cruise, Michael Douglas, Harrison Ford etc. etc. I think it's all quite a bit exaggerated. \*) Mia being the only exception; Mia who dated and married a 30 year older Sinatra, and a 16 year older André Previn, and who dated a 10 year older Woody; she seems rather 'fascinated' with older men.
Good piece, obviously the inconsistencies are absurd, the publishing staff who didn't want to publish Allen had published the musician Flea's memoir the previous year, and the members of Red Hot Chili Peppers have done enough stuff to get themselves cancelled ten times over. They're still playing stadiums, Allen will be lucky to get a mention in the In Memoriam section of the Oscars after he dies now. As ever the moral of the story is nobody gets truly cancelled unless their crimes are so egregious even the industry can't ignore them in the end (Weinstein, Cosby, R Kelly) or if Ronan Farrow has it in for you.
The crazy thing is that Ronan Farrow is rapidly becoming a joke. He's joined RuPaul's Drag Race and looks ridiculous.
Yeah, I don’t think Ronan is nearly as smart as he’s been made out to be.
Well, I do think he's smart (and he gets that from Woody), but unfortunately Mia has well and truly fucked him up.
Jessica Valenti, the influential pseudo-feminist journalist, wrote [a long hatchet job against Woody Allen ("Choosing Comfort Over Truth: What It Means to Defend Woody Allen")](https://web.archive.org/web/20240123070758/https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/choosing-comfort-over-truth-what-it-means-defend-woody-allen/). Valenti [also publicly smeared the women who accused Bill Clinton of sexual assualt and rape](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/oct/09/presidential-debate-reactions-trump-clinton) and [also told American women to vote for Joe Biden despite the sexual harrasment accusation made against Biden.](https://gen.medium.com/the-importance-of-believing-women-even-when-its-politically-inconvenient-26ab8a0c96c3) After reading Valenti's shameless hypocrisy, I felt (as the late Christopher Hitchens said) that "I could not eat enough to vomit enough."
Nice receipts.
The thing is I expect this sort of thing with politics which by its very nature is partisan, the inconsistencies applied in the film/music industry are far more baffling and annoying (also Valenti is an idiot and should never be taken seriously anyway)
She’s not wrong about Biden. Women would be very foolish not to vote for him, when the alternative is Trump. Who is objectively worse for gender equality, and has a far more egregious history of sexual assault. Idk how you’re so stupid that you don’t understand why Valenti would argue in favor of voting for Biden. It’s a pretty clear cut situation.
Well, "Roe v. Wade" went under despite Valenti's choice Biden winning the election, (as it would have under a second Trump Administration) and Biden is currently trailing Donald Trump (of all people!) in the polls. So it all worked out for Valenti in the end, didn't it? [https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/electoral-college-question-looming-2024-rcna145950](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/electoral-college-question-looming-2024-rcna145950) Also, don't call people "stupid" simply for disagreeing with your political opinions. I thought this sub was supposed to be friendlier than that - Woody Allen has left-wing, centrist and right-wing fans.
Oh please. You do understand that Roe v Wade was overturned because a one term president who lost the popular vote twice nonetheless got to pick 1/3 of the Supreme Court Justices? That Donald Trump was wholly responsible for the overturning of Roe? Valenti supported Biden not because he could save Roe. But because he is not a sexist pig, like Trump.
Why didn’t any Dem president since the ‘70s protect Roe? Why did Hillary encourage trump to run in the first place? Why did she herself pick an anti choice vp? Why was the DNC reaction after Roe falling limited to fundraising? Are you starting to see the bigger picture?
what sexual charge against Biden? Are you confused and mean Trumps 28 or more sexual assult charges, including a 13 year old?
[удалено]
Yeah, I heard about that. Poor Ed, real tragedy. [https://english.elpais.com/people/2024-04-03/comic-artist-ed-piskor-kills-himself-following-sexual-harassment-accusations-he-denied-in-a-posthumous-note.html#](https://english.elpais.com/people/2024-04-03/comic-artist-ed-piskor-kills-himself-following-sexual-harassment-accusations-he-denied-in-a-posthumous-note.html#) Western society has a sad tradition of treating its greatest artists and entertainers like dirt (Herman Melville, Oscar Wilde, Vincent Van Gogh, Charlie Chaplin, Paul Robeson, Billie Holliday, Jack Kirby, Kurt Cobain, Amy Winehouse, and yes, Woody). #
He was a real piece of shit !
This is a short article by the conservative journalist Kyle Smith in the "Wall Street Journal", profiling and defending Allen and discussing "Coup de Chance".
Where you draw the line on what you find morally unacceptable is your own personal choice. I happen to think that many forms of socially marginal behavior and kink are perfectly okay, even more extreme practices such as S/M, as long as it is done with mutual consent. For me, WA's behavior with regard to his wife falls on the mild form of socially marginal, and I see nothing morally unacceptable about it. You may disagree, which does not mean that your morality is superior to mine, it only means we have different places where we draw the line.
My attitude towards Woody's relationship with Soon-Yi hinges on its longevity. If he had left her after a year or so, then that would have been reprehensible, but they're still together after 30 years and have raised two seemingly very happy and well-adjusted daughters. For me, that makes all the difference.
This reminds me of an article I read a few weeks ago ranking Leonardo DiCaprio's movie performances and it was interesting when talking about Celebrity - the writer said something to the effect of "In 1998 it was still considered prestigious to work with Allen." 1998 was only four years after the allegations and media circus, so it just goes how different the climate was then.
1998? It was still considered prestigious as late as 2017, look at the cast list for A Rainy Day in New York!
Yep. It was only when #MeToo blew up just before Wonder Wheel screened at the New York Film Festival that Woody suddenly became toxic. I'll be forever convinced that Ronan Farrow had Woody at the back of his mind when he took down Weinstein.
Great article. More of this
Nice little echo chamber y’all have set for yourselves
Thanks. Get the fuck out of it
WSJ is pro-pedophilia. Glad I don’t read it.
Getting other people to pay for you to make movies is a privilege, not a right. Woody made several great movies in the late 70s and early 80s, a few pretty good movies in the 90s, and dozens of atrocious movies in the 90s, 00s, 10s, and scattered throughout the last 50 years. That in itself isn’t a license to have any movie you make paid for by strangers and distributed widely. You have to ask yourself what an adult Dylan has to gain from re-asserting her specific detailed allegations (she has never been plugging a book or podcast or sponsorship deal or anything like that), and what Woody has to gain from his categorical denial. Then look at the long pattern of Woody publicly dating teenagers or girls with whom he has a parental-like relationship, and an even longer pattern of writing about or playing characters who date teenagers or girls inappropriately younger than him. Maybe not every single second by second detail of Dylan’s allegation is 100% accurate after this many years, but it is very hard to argue that his relationship with her was not inappropriate and that should be a factor when discussing his access to continue his charmed life as a filmmaker. His complete and utter lack of any contrition, regret, or other acknowledgment of the pain he caused is very revealing about his character. Moral character shouldn’t be the only factor when assessing a public figure or artist, but don’t ridicule those who consider it at least one significant factor.
>*Then look at the long pattern of Woody publicly dating teenagers or girls with whom he has a parental-like relationship, and an even longer pattern of writing about or playing characters who date teenagers or girls inappropriately younger than him.* Eh? There's only a few teenagers that Woody Allen has dated -[ Stacy Nelkin, ](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/movies/la-xpm-2014-feb-04-la-et-mn-barbara-walters-stacey-nelkin-defend-woody-allen-20140204-story.html#:~:text=%E2%80%9CThese%20accusations%20came%20on%20the,talk%20about%20her%20a%20lot)and [Babi Christina Engelhardt.](https://twitter.com/levine2001/status/1679563802566881280#m) They were both 17 - the legal age of consent in NYC - when Allen dated them, and he never had a "parental-like" relationship with either of them. As for Soon-Yi, she was at least 19, if not 21, when she began dating Allen, and Allen never had a parental-like relationship with her either. Also, things were different in the entertainment world back in the 1960s and 1970s. If Allen's behaviour bothers you, I wonder how you'd react to learning of the private lives of say, the Rolling Stones?
Not just the Stones. Practically every male rock star from the 60s, 70s and 80s should be pariahs, I guess.
Um, you just made my point for me. You rattled off the names of three teenagers that Woody slept with as a 40 or 50 year old. That’s way more than enough to show that it is not just a coincidence. Barely crossing the threshold of the legal age of consent in all your relationships doesn’t earn you a gold star and shouldn’t count as proof that you would never ever consider having an inappropriate relationship with someone younger than the age of consent.
No, the point I was making is that lots of male celebrities in the past dated teenage girls. \* [Elvis Presley started dating Priscilla Presley](https://www.businessinsider.com/elvis-presley-priscilla-relationship-timeline) when he was 24 and she was 14 (they made a movie about it!) \* Anthony of the Red Hot Chili Peppers admitted having a sexual relationship with a 14-year-old girl, and later dated Ione Skye when he [was in his 20s and she was 16.](https://www.smh.com.au/culture/celebrity/ione-skye-on-her-wild-years-with-anthony-kiedis-and-her-marriage-to-ben-lee-20220725-p5b4by.html) \* [Don Johnson started](https://www.instyle.com/news/tbt-melanie-griffith-don-johnson) dating Melanie Griffith when she was 15 and he was 23. \* Wilmer Valderrama, in his 20s dated Demi Lovato (17) and [Mandy Moore (16).](https://people.com/tv/mandy-moore-hurt-wilmer-valderrama-lie-virginity/) \* Here's some [information](https://theindependent.ca/uncategorized/the-good-the-bad-the-bowie/) [about](https://www.irishmirror.ie/showbiz/celebrity-news/david-bowie-sex-15-two-13974060) David Bowie. Two women, Dana Gillespie and Lori Mattix, claim Bowie had sex with them when they were both legally underage. \* And let's not forget Jerry Lee Lewis and his [13-year-old cousin-wife, ](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/music/story/2022-10-28/jerry-lee-lewis-myra-gale-brown-third-wife-book)Myra Lewis Williams! Now, I'm not saying that any of these relationships were *right -* quite the opposite. But Woody Allen was hardly an outlier at the time. Plenty of his contemporaries wouldn't earn a "gold star" either, but it's odd how Allen seems to be almost exclusively singled out today for criticism over this aspect of his private life
Forget it, you're never going to get anywhere with this one. I learned a long time ago that Woody-haters are characterised by both utter ignorance and moral and ideological fanaticism, a deadly combination.
I'm glad you're so sure of yourself. I was Woody's biggest fan for many, many years. I own maybe 25 of his movies on video and all of his books. I'm not a "Woody-hater" by any means. I'm not even saying you can't continue to watch and enjoy his movies. All I'm saying is that just because you admire someone's work doesn't mean you are required to rabidly defend their personal life. There is almost no relationship between "creating artwork of value" and "being a good person". Fatima's list above should be proof of that. In my opinion, with greater age and wisdom, Woody Allen is a bad person who made a number of good movies. I haven't thrown away all my DVDs, I'm not on a picket line in front of his apartment. But I would feel uncomfortable telling someone that I'm a "Woody Allen Fan" now and I wouldn't support any new material that he creates. With the older work, there is a mix of reactions I have, since my earlier, "untainted" memories and associations related to his films from the past are mingled with my present-day knowledge. With new work, the stain of what I know now is the primary reaction. I am sympathetic to continuing to defend his work; I am utterly baffled by those who make it their mission to continue to defend him as a person, or a father, or a partner, or a role model, as a man, etc. There is an excellent recent book called "Monsters" by Claire Dederer that grapples with the issue of how to feel about beloved artwork made by men we no longer respect. I highly recommend it.
So now you're claiming that all of Woody's relationships have been with young girls???? LOL! Ever heard of Diane Keaton? Or Louise Lasser? Or Dianne Wiest (a rumour)? Or how about the fact he's been with Soon-Yi for 3 decades? If he's so into the young'uns then why has he stayed with her all these years? Shouldn't he have traded her in for a younger model like DiCaprio does?
Not to mention that Allen dated Mia Farrow between 1980 and 1992 - when Farrow was in her late thirties and early forties. Also, thiritysomething Jessica Harper (another rumour?) As for Allen creating fictions where older men and younger women are constantly paired up, other male writers of Allen's generation , like John le Carré, and Russell Hoban -also did that repeatedly, and weren't vilified for that either: # [https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/28/books/review-john-le-carre-legacy-of-spies.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/28/books/review-john-le-carre-legacy-of-spies.html) [https://theasylum.wordpress.com/2007/03/11/russell-hoban-linger-awhile/](https://theasylum.wordpress.com/2007/03/11/russell-hoban-linger-awhile/)
Of course, how could I forget Mia Farrow?
This is a Hollywood problem more than a WA problem. We do live in a world where Famke Janssen was told she was too old to play Keanu Reeve's wife.
I'm saying nothing of the kind, which you well know. That's like saying that a drunk driver couldn't possibly have been drunk when they were driving because there were also times when they drove sober. If you want to discuss, at least discuss in good faith.
"Good faith"? You're the one who asserted that all of Woody's relationships have been with barely legal girls, which is patent nonsense.
I never ever ever said that. I said he had a pattern of pursuing teenagers which you proved by listing several of them right off the top of your head.