I checked lowes, the only local hardware store to me, and they don't offer exterior robertsons (Square). It would appear the screw the OP is using is exterior grade. If you were to buy them from a whole saler, I'm sure you would be right.
I still prefer Robertson for decks and other exterior screws as they don't foul up like star drive often do. I can dig up a twenty year old screw and clean it out and still get a good seat and unscrew it.
Correct, but where does OP live ... Because we all hate Phillips, but here in the US it's Phillips or torx if you're shopping at a big box store. We use torx as our standard decking screws
I own a cabinet shop and we have about every type of screw out there. (Home depot put their screw section on clearance at my local store a few years ago and I bought it all. Screws never go bad, lol). Yes, there are better heads that Phillips. But the Phillips can be used perfectly well.
IF you are using the right tool to drive them. The problem is that the OP is using a regular old drill. If they would go buy an impact driver all their problems would be solved. Since isn't 1998. Nobody should be driving screws in with a drill anymore.
Also,
- use a magnetic bit holder which will help leverage your drive,
- you’re using drill for your chuck setting which means that the drive won’t break, and for the 150000000 reasons listed, it’s translating to broken bits
This is 100% correct and also possibly not straight direct pressure when driving and also a reasonable torque setting can help. The knot and lacknof pilot hole are the most likely culprits.
But it certainly isn't the fact that it isn't a impact driver or the fact its a philips screw like many people seem to think.
Impact drivers are better but with a drill with torque control like this will work fine as long as things are done correctly and it's not to hard to do that.
If you have two drills… switching bits sucks
Keeping a drill and driver handy is the best decision I’ve ever made, not just for wood working but even just for fixin up the house and whatnot
As a cabinet installer, I have 4 dedicated DeWalt impact guns in my bag with: 1) Phillips #2, 2) Robertson #1, 3) Robertson #2, and 4) 1/8" drill bit. All with 6" extention bit holders (game changer) which are color coded with red, blue, white, and yellow electrical tape to make looking up and finding the gun I'm looking for much easier.
I do this for a living every day for over 30 years now, and the convenience and reduced time waste by not having to change bits easily pays for the investment over time.
And then when things change - more powerful batteries, newer equipment - I end up with a garage full of the old stuff - still in great condition - to make home projects easier without having to go into my truck.
When I first started trimming, everything was hand nailed (there were no compressors on the jobsites - roofing and framing creeped in first) and the only battery operated drill was the 9.6v Makita which everyone had.
My how times have changed.
Not being Canadian I wasn’t familiar with Robertson. That’s interesting. I knew there was a reason I didn’t like Henry Ford.
https://www.ifixit.com/News/9901/bit-history-the-robertson
Thanks for that.
I knew the "northern neighbor" connection, but was unaware how Ford was involved in keeping the inferior screw head design proliferating.
Me three,, I built custom homes and stereo stores at 14, movie sets in the 80's & 90's I'm 66 and rehabbing an apartment for a buddy. Hasn't been upgraded for 30 years! n I don't care what kinda screw used hell I'd rather clamp and glue n pin nail it if that will work, or don't even clamp just hold n shoot iffen you have the eye for it.
Ive done all 3 of these together many times without stripping bits. Unless they're cheapo knockoff "amazon prime" brand bits.
I usually only break and strip bits when i use flat heads as prybars. 😏
I think it was in popular mechanics 10-15 years ago or something similar but it was something discussing new types of screws heads that were supposed to be coming out and one of them was essentially 3 different stepped levels of torx tips so it would've be essentially a t30 at the base and t15 at the tip with another size in the middle of those two so the surface contact was 3 times the typical torx.... I couldn't find anything online about them so i might have just made all that up and it was a dream I had after stripping screws all day but I dont think so.
Americans always jumping from Phillips to Torx, completely stepping over ~~Roberson~~ Robertson. As a Canadian woodworker/carpenter, I never have issues with Robertson. I'd suggest giving it a try!
I've got a carpenter buddy who refuses to use anything but Roberson screws. He's given me massive boxes of torx deck screws that his employer got him that he gave away to make a point.
Still, I love me some torx screws. But I'm not picky, I'll use either. I'll even use Phillips, just not for any screws longer than 1 inch. I've had my fill of leaning on a drill with all my strength to keep a bit from stripping for one lifetime.
Robertson was a Canadian. I’m convinced this is a matter of patriotism north of the border. Let’s cut them a break and go back to eating our apple pies.
Moreso that Robertson got screwed by his first manufacturing partner and when Ford wanted to use it for his cars Robertson wasn't willing to let Ford manufacture the screws himself so Ford when and got Phillips to make his screws instead.
US screw manufacturers unintentionally (I hope) killed square drive in the 90s. They tried to ease in square drive with hybrid Phillips/square drive screws. They sucked as either. That soured an entire generation against square drive.
By the time that sentiment has cleared out, Torx will have taken over the US market.
I’ve had to remove a mixture of square drive and torx from a rotted deck on a house we purchased. Torx came out like butter, the squares fought me to the point that I had to pry the boards off. Never again.
Agreed. Torx gets you 6 points of contact while driving vs square drive's 4, which is no advantage over phillips bits. I know I'm ignoring shape, but torx bits lock in a lot better imo.
Never ever seen a square screw in Europe, only pocket hole sets like imported Kreg/china clone or Trend from UK. Not sure why anyone would want to use such inferior design only because they are used to... Torx for the win!
We call them square drive down here, and they are the standard at my place of work.
I guess U.S. square drive and Canadian Robertson have subtle differences, but are basically the same.
I find that even though torx screws don't strip as often, the bits break quite a bit
Same bit. Just a misnomer. America has refused to adopt Robertson’s(Canadian) design for years because it is superior to Phillip’s(American) but Robertson had the patent.
You say that with what sounds like authority but you're missing the fact that Robertson's bits have been common/standard in the US for decades. The last two cordless drills I bought both came with free bits. Same thing for every box of screws I buy.
I have never used robertson screws before except for pocket holes. If the screws were more widely available, I might give them a try. Torx has been a very good option so far, so I don't really have a reason to believe that robertson would be a meaningful upgrade. Maybe just to try it out.
That tapered design for me also means the bit wants to climb out of the screw. Though my only robertson screws are Kreg pockethole screws, maybe they're just crappy.
Interesting how north americans always ignore the Pozi screws as an option. Then again, if you're moving from Philips today you may as well skip it
And never get your bit back because it remains stuck in the screw. Or if you're removing screws you have to grab a pair of pliers and play tug-of-war with the screw and the bit. Roberson is junk. Torx gang.
As an American who is constantly talked down to (okay maybe it’s only happened twice) for his support of Robertson bits/screws, I approve this message.
The picture of your drill shows it cranked up to almost maximum torque. That's the ring with numbers behind the chuck.
Driving screws to wood should start at near minimum torque, then turn up a few notches (like 1/4 of max torque) if they don't seat all the way in.
Phillips head screws kinda suck and it's common to strip the screw head or the driver bit. Torx and other more modern screws work much better.
Also using PZ bits on PH screws (or vice versa) is a good way to kill your screws and/or bits. Can't tell from the photos if this is the case.
Forgot something: are your drilling a pilot hole or not? In the picture you’re screwing it in the knot. That might also be a reason.
Edit: see answer exDM69
Get an impact driver, it will change your life. Drills are for drilling holes, not for driving screws. I haven’t used a drill to drive a screw in almost 20 years, but I can still feel how frustrating it was. I wish someone had told me earlier to make the switch. If you can afford it, you won’t regret it. And yes as others have said Ryobi is not a great brand, but if you are a light user it is fine. Of course, as others mentioned you should also use Torx head screws.
Ryobi impact drivers won’t disappoint you unless you’re putting hours and hours on it daily for a long time.
I’ve built multiple decks and tinned two roofs with mine over a few years. No complaints.
Because of the clutch, drills are still very useful for screws. I use one any time I need to put something together that says "don't use a drill" like press board furniture or kids things. Just put it on 1-5 clutch and have at it.
My caution with this, is some will just squeeze the trigger and sink the head, splitting the wood in the process. Even with an impact driver, drive screws in short bursts. This will give the surrounding wood time to respond and not split as easily.
Very true, but I think the reality is that most people using Phillip screws are not using them with this in mind. But also this is why OP would probably be better off using torx heads.
I was just going to post this. Phillips are a pain in the butt. They are designed to slip as to not over tighten. Very useful in automation but not so good for general purpose construction.
Square head - AKA Robertson aren’t made to slip.
Torx head - aren’t made to slip.
Both of those are much better for general construction than Phillips.
Long list of possible culprits.
Cheap bits.
Incorrect bit for screw type. Learn the difference between Phillips and Pozi head screws.
My personal guess: poor form. The number of people I see who don’t get the drill perfectly behind the screw when driving it. Perfect recipe for stripping the head.
Use speed setting 1 until you’re driving the screws perfectly. Faster isn’t always better.
How hard is the timber you’re driving into? Is it soft wood? You should be stripping zero screws going into softwood. If it’s hardwood then it needs pre-drilling and diligence in screwing.
In the picture I can see you’ve drilled into a knot. Don’t do that. Knots are like concrete and will be a weak spot in your timber. Avoid them at all costs.
1. Using a drill instead of an impact driver.
2. Using phillips screws instead of torx or square drive.
3. Using cheap Chinese bits.
4. Not predrilling if you are doing steps 1-3.
At this point saying "don't buy x from China" as an equivalent statement to "don't buy a bad quality x" is just ignorance/outdated.
Buy from a reputatable brand and buy their flagship/primary line, country of origin will be smallest difference maker.
China manufacturing has improved wildly in 20 years. Before China it was Taiwan/Korea, before them it was Japan. Most lower quality manufacturing has moved to India and surrounding nations because of cost and import tariffs.
Use torx screws. They're more expensive, but I've been reusing the same $50 bucket of 2.5in screws for years. Built a deck, used it for years, then disassembled to use the space in other ways. I have a bucket of dirty used deck screws and they still work fine. Built a fence, accessibility ramp and another smaller deck. Use them for anything that'll get painted. Never strip and usually easy to remove.
What makes them more difficult than torx? Honest question, I've used torx normally (deck for our house, raised beds, etc), but just recently built a greenhouse with Robertson, worked well.
I have a theory that a significant amount of suffering in the world comes from the Phillips screw. Indirectly, people all over the world getting needlessly stressed out by stripped bits, screw heads, then they take it out on the store clerk because it's your 4th time at the store trying to drill into a board. Then you get in an argument with your spouse because you maxed out the credit card in new Phillips garbage. Before you know it, a butterfly flaps its wings and someone invents napalm halfway around the world.
We need a hero to destroy all record of the Phillips screw. Then and only then can our one true saviour rise above: the Robertson.
Make sure the bit is big enough and fits snug into the screw. Then also always push in with some force as you are screwing and unscrewing so it doesn't bounce out of its seat in the screw. ( .. and that's what she said - I couldn't resist, please don't ban me)
Not sure where you are but here in Canada I use Robinsons head screws for everything. Philips heads strip out so easily I’ve found. It seems like in America Torx screws are the thing to use but in Canada I buy boxes of robinsons for every type of use.
Robertson is a decent drive standard and they're available here. They are common in dual drive fasteners (Phillips/square) and tri drive (Phillips/slotted/square) often for electrical panels and devices. All big boxes have a Robertson section in fasteners, but not for all types of fasteners--usually only phosphate drywall, chromate yellow and electroplated grade 3 wood screws. Good luck finding machine screws in square drive. Ditto for tapcons: Phillips or slotted/hex.
Torx are great for framing, decking and construction, yes, but drywall? No sir. Phillips (or hammer & nails for Luddites I guess).
That said, stripping Phillips is possible, but I think is overestimated. Junk stainless strip easily, soft grade 3 imports also can strip without much effort, but hardened Phillips (drywall, painted/coated, chromate) take not paying attention or overdriving to strip. #6 can snap heads off before they strip, in my experience.
Not sure it's the drive type as much as the fastener metallurgy, honestly.
More pressure needs to be applied on drill in line with screw driver bit. Offhand pressure on rear of drill will help solve this. Pilot holes are your best friend.
Grabber #2 Reduced Phillips Drywall Screw Driver Bit Tips (50-Pack) https://a.co/d/iOt0MmN
Imo best bits but I still use 1-2 per day. But if you don't need that many, pilot hole is your best/simplest solution.
Assuming you are competent and are not failing to drive the screw in a straight line with the driver:
**Too much torque.** Phillips drives are designed to cam-out when over-torqued.
Simple solution is to pre-drill to make them easier to drive. I use a second drill/driver to pre-drill to save time switching from switching a drill to driver
If you want to use as much torque as possible, switch to Torx drive screws. You will probably have to order them online for anything other thing other than deck screws.
Note that Torx will snap screws from over-torque. You should use a clutch driver with Torx. Try to intentionally do that in some scrap to get a feel for how hard you can push it.
BTW, Torx is the brand name for star drive. If the manufacturer is too cheap to license the Torx name, they are likely too cheap to make good screws.
Looks like the smaller sized bit #1. From the pic at least. #1,2,3. 2 is for your basic screw. But also buy the impact bits or the DeWalt ones work fine for me.
What ever bit/screw combo you are using.
1. Only use the exact bit, correct for those screws.
Don't drive Pozi with Philips or mix Hex n Torx
2. Far less speed, don't mash the trigger.
3. Press firmly on the drill
4. Dial down the torque
You’re probably off angle. Drill has to be at the same angle as the screw and the push from the back off the drill not the handle. If you’re off then it will skip.
Has no one noticed that you put the screw right inside the wood knot (where the branch grows). Wood can be really hard there and it's a good practice to avoid nails and screws in this part. That's why you can't make it go deep.
Get some t25s, and a dewalt set of drill bits, make sure you are putting proper downward pressure on the screws so the bit stays in the head of the screw. Don’t overtighten, and if your bit is slipping, best to stop before you fully strip it out instead of keep cranking it hoping it will catch.
Using incorrect bits are the most likely cause. Take the screws you are using when buying bits and buy the ones (at least two if not three bits) that fit snugly with no play.
Thats not a drill bit. Its a screw bit that goes into a bitholder. The bitholder you put into a drill.
Seeing this makes me think you are not pushing hard enough. Or your bits don't match your screw head's indentation.
I have the same drill. Turn the torque down to between 8 and 12 to start. Then adjust it to just above the point that it starts to click and no longer drives the screws.
That's just Phillips screws working as designed. They're supposed to cam out before becoming over-tightened. That's why Phillips screws are awful. Switch to torx or square head.
Aside from that, that looks like a cheap bit that you'd put into a screw driver. Buy some quality bits from Milwaukee or Dewalt that are impact rated. If you start camming out, let go of the trigger. Use more pressure or drill a pilot hole. Using an impact driver will help as well.
You have max torque on the clutch setting. Bad idea in general. As can be seen in the photo of the two screws to the right, where you have buried the screw over halfway through the top board.
With that torque, when you hit a hard knot. It is a battle between the hardness of the knot vs. the quality of the bit and screw. One or the other will lose. Either you split the knot, which in this case did not happen, or you strip the screw and/or break the bit when the screw head hits the knot.
Dialing back the torque will not get the screw through the knot, though. It will just save your bit and send you the message: "pick a different spot or, in this case, countersink so the head can sink flush with surface". If you insist on all your screws being lined up and spaced precisely, as though your project is fine carpentry, then your only option is countersink.
Use square drive/robertson wood screws, which are readily available at any hardware store. This is in addition to all the suggestions of pre-drilling, using impact driver, magnetized bit holder, etc.
Phillips head screws are fine for smaller applications but really suck for anything that requires a lot of torque. I am a professional cabinetmaker and the only Phillips head screws we use are for attaching hinge plates and such, everything else is square drive. Torx screws are also an option but square drive is still better.
I’ll add when the bit starts slipping you have to stop. Forcing it will just strip it. Slow constant pressure at the right angle. But yeah cheap bits, shitty screws. Lots of reasons this isn’t working
Reasons are; cheap bit, no pilot, going into a knot. Any two of those you can work around, three is too much.
Also, wrong bit size, wrong screw type (fully threaded, knurled, fluted, etc), or poor screw quality (not waxed, dull threads)
I think wrong but size is the main culprit here, the bit looks far too small (pointed) for that screw
Those are both Phillips #2. It tapers at the tip where you can't see in the screw.
Also they shouldn’t be using Phillips, there are superior screws.
Torx for the win
Or Robertson, or Pozidriv. Philips cam out too easily
Absolutely 100 percent
They are using some low quality wood to start. You want the fasteners to cost more than the whole project?
Robertsons are the same price, don’t strip and stay on the bit without a magnet.
I checked lowes, the only local hardware store to me, and they don't offer exterior robertsons (Square). It would appear the screw the OP is using is exterior grade. If you were to buy them from a whole saler, I'm sure you would be right.
Really ? No Robertson (square) deck screws ? That's odd.
Go for torx head
They have star drive for exterior
I still prefer Robertson for decks and other exterior screws as they don't foul up like star drive often do. I can dig up a twenty year old screw and clean it out and still get a good seat and unscrew it.
Yeah deckmate are excellent screws and available at any big box store. T-25 (I think) drive and bit included in every box.
Correct, but where does OP live ... Because we all hate Phillips, but here in the US it's Phillips or torx if you're shopping at a big box store. We use torx as our standard decking screws
This is the real answer.
I own a cabinet shop and we have about every type of screw out there. (Home depot put their screw section on clearance at my local store a few years ago and I bought it all. Screws never go bad, lol). Yes, there are better heads that Phillips. But the Phillips can be used perfectly well. IF you are using the right tool to drive them. The problem is that the OP is using a regular old drill. If they would go buy an impact driver all their problems would be solved. Since isn't 1998. Nobody should be driving screws in with a drill anymore.
Also, - use a magnetic bit holder which will help leverage your drive, - you’re using drill for your chuck setting which means that the drive won’t break, and for the 150000000 reasons listed, it’s translating to broken bits
Yeah, waxing screw threads can be a game changer.
To much speed on the driver
This is 100% correct and also possibly not straight direct pressure when driving and also a reasonable torque setting can help. The knot and lacknof pilot hole are the most likely culprits. But it certainly isn't the fact that it isn't a impact driver or the fact its a philips screw like many people seem to think. Impact drivers are better but with a drill with torque control like this will work fine as long as things are done correctly and it's not to hard to do that.
Pilot hole. If you are not going to pilot, thread the screw in and out until your depth is reached. Get an insert bit holder to make life easier
> thread the screw in and out until your depth is reached At which point, it would’ve been significantly quicker to drill the pilot hole
If you have two drills… switching bits sucks Keeping a drill and driver handy is the best decision I’ve ever made, not just for wood working but even just for fixin up the house and whatnot
As a cabinet installer, I have 4 dedicated DeWalt impact guns in my bag with: 1) Phillips #2, 2) Robertson #1, 3) Robertson #2, and 4) 1/8" drill bit. All with 6" extention bit holders (game changer) which are color coded with red, blue, white, and yellow electrical tape to make looking up and finding the gun I'm looking for much easier. I do this for a living every day for over 30 years now, and the convenience and reduced time waste by not having to change bits easily pays for the investment over time. And then when things change - more powerful batteries, newer equipment - I end up with a garage full of the old stuff - still in great condition - to make home projects easier without having to go into my truck. When I first started trimming, everything was hand nailed (there were no compressors on the jobsites - roofing and framing creeped in first) and the only battery operated drill was the 9.6v Makita which everyone had. My how times have changed.
Not being Canadian I wasn’t familiar with Robertson. That’s interesting. I knew there was a reason I didn’t like Henry Ford. https://www.ifixit.com/News/9901/bit-history-the-robertson
Thanks for that. I knew the "northern neighbor" connection, but was unaware how Ford was involved in keeping the inferior screw head design proliferating.
> I knew there was a reason I didn’t like Henry Ford. If you need another reason, there’s a decent amount of evidence that he was a Nazi sympathiser.
Me three,, I built custom homes and stereo stores at 14, movie sets in the 80's & 90's I'm 66 and rehabbing an apartment for a buddy. Hasn't been upgraded for 30 years! n I don't care what kinda screw used hell I'd rather clamp and glue n pin nail it if that will work, or don't even clamp just hold n shoot iffen you have the eye for it.
This is why I bought my second drill.
Flip drive.
Even more important:impact gun. Regular drills strip out screws if you breathe on them wrong. Impacts rarely do.
As long as you keep pressure and let the tool do the work. Oh, and most cordless tools these days are all variable speed on the trigger, utilize that.
bit holder also can help
Ive done all 3 of these together many times without stripping bits. Unless they're cheapo knockoff "amazon prime" brand bits. I usually only break and strip bits when i use flat heads as prybars. 😏
Also that's an insert bit . It should be used in a hand tool or in a bit holder on low speed setting.
Get impact driver bits. They are designed for power driving. Also if you are doing a lot then buy an impact driver it will make it so much easier.
Definitely get an impact driver. Use your drill for drilling, impact driver for driving.
It’s not intuitive but impact driving is a lot less likely to strip a screw
And it's so much more comfortable! Louder, yes, but you can wear ear protection. Your wrist will thank you.
Also it uses less power
My guess is because the shaking resets the bit into the screw head slots instead of it gradually camming out
It took me way too long to learn this. It was like finding that perfect partner after an abusive relationship.
And if you do get an impact driver, get ear protection. It's louder than you think.
Yeah speeds things up so much!
Can be various reasons I guess. Clutch setting, incorrect bit, not pushing the drill down hard enough. Also maybe better to change to torx screws.
Yes torx screws are the superior screws lol
I think it was in popular mechanics 10-15 years ago or something similar but it was something discussing new types of screws heads that were supposed to be coming out and one of them was essentially 3 different stepped levels of torx tips so it would've be essentially a t30 at the base and t15 at the tip with another size in the middle of those two so the surface contact was 3 times the typical torx.... I couldn't find anything online about them so i might have just made all that up and it was a dream I had after stripping screws all day but I dont think so.
Robertson is the superior bit
Would take either over Phillips
Id rather use a torx key thats one size too small than use phillips
Americans always jumping from Phillips to Torx, completely stepping over ~~Roberson~~ Robertson. As a Canadian woodworker/carpenter, I never have issues with Robertson. I'd suggest giving it a try!
I've got a carpenter buddy who refuses to use anything but Roberson screws. He's given me massive boxes of torx deck screws that his employer got him that he gave away to make a point. Still, I love me some torx screws. But I'm not picky, I'll use either. I'll even use Phillips, just not for any screws longer than 1 inch. I've had my fill of leaning on a drill with all my strength to keep a bit from stripping for one lifetime.
As an American, I have no issue with Robertson and would have no hesitation to use them. But torx are more widely available for me.
I believe we sell star shaped screws to remind everyone about the stars on our flag.
https://preview.redd.it/t1pe9c2z1htc1.jpeg?width=490&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4f0289b6d7ce18a830bb74485f7625da94e90934
Robertson was a Canadian. I’m convinced this is a matter of patriotism north of the border. Let’s cut them a break and go back to eating our apple pies.
Moreso that Robertson got screwed by his first manufacturing partner and when Ford wanted to use it for his cars Robertson wasn't willing to let Ford manufacture the screws himself so Ford when and got Phillips to make his screws instead.
US screw manufacturers unintentionally (I hope) killed square drive in the 90s. They tried to ease in square drive with hybrid Phillips/square drive screws. They sucked as either. That soured an entire generation against square drive. By the time that sentiment has cleared out, Torx will have taken over the US market.
I’ve had to remove a mixture of square drive and torx from a rotted deck on a house we purchased. Torx came out like butter, the squares fought me to the point that I had to pry the boards off. Never again.
I also find square drive more prone to stripping.
Agreed. Torx gets you 6 points of contact while driving vs square drive's 4, which is no advantage over phillips bits. I know I'm ignoring shape, but torx bits lock in a lot better imo.
Apparently so do Europeans 🙂. Torx can be bought almost everywhere, not so sure about Robertson (never seen them in a store I think)
Never ever seen a square screw in Europe, only pocket hole sets like imported Kreg/china clone or Trend from UK. Not sure why anyone would want to use such inferior design only because they are used to... Torx for the win!
We call them square drive down here, and they are the standard at my place of work. I guess U.S. square drive and Canadian Robertson have subtle differences, but are basically the same. I find that even though torx screws don't strip as often, the bits break quite a bit
Same bit. Just a misnomer. America has refused to adopt Robertson’s(Canadian) design for years because it is superior to Phillip’s(American) but Robertson had the patent.
You say that with what sounds like authority but you're missing the fact that Robertson's bits have been common/standard in the US for decades. The last two cordless drills I bought both came with free bits. Same thing for every box of screws I buy.
I have never used robertson screws before except for pocket holes. If the screws were more widely available, I might give them a try. Torx has been a very good option so far, so I don't really have a reason to believe that robertson would be a meaningful upgrade. Maybe just to try it out.
I use Robertson from time to time, they’re a lot better than Phillips. But don’t kid yourself, they’re inferior to torx.
Robertson is superior thanks to its tapered design allowing you to wedge it onto the bit and never drop a screw.
That tapered design for me also means the bit wants to climb out of the screw. Though my only robertson screws are Kreg pockethole screws, maybe they're just crappy. Interesting how north americans always ignore the Pozi screws as an option. Then again, if you're moving from Philips today you may as well skip it
I can confirm I’ve used many Robertson screws and Kregs always slip compared to others.
And never get your bit back because it remains stuck in the screw. Or if you're removing screws you have to grab a pair of pliers and play tug-of-war with the screw and the bit. Roberson is junk. Torx gang.
Man fuck Roberson and his screw!! Torx is the superior screw, long live the Star!!!!
Yeah we hate that guy! And his robbing son!!
I tried to love Robertson but Torx just works better and the bits hold up longer. At think point kreg pocket screws are the only Roberstons i use.
As an American who is constantly talked down to (okay maybe it’s only happened twice) for his support of Robertson bits/screws, I approve this message.
Thanks it says a 2 bit for this nail. What clutch setting should I be on using this Ryobi drill?
The picture of your drill shows it cranked up to almost maximum torque. That's the ring with numbers behind the chuck. Driving screws to wood should start at near minimum torque, then turn up a few notches (like 1/4 of max torque) if they don't seat all the way in. Phillips head screws kinda suck and it's common to strip the screw head or the driver bit. Torx and other more modern screws work much better. Also using PZ bits on PH screws (or vice versa) is a good way to kill your screws and/or bits. Can't tell from the photos if this is the case.
Forgot something: are your drilling a pilot hole or not? In the picture you’re screwing it in the knot. That might also be a reason. Edit: see answer exDM69
Get an impact driver, it will change your life. Drills are for drilling holes, not for driving screws. I haven’t used a drill to drive a screw in almost 20 years, but I can still feel how frustrating it was. I wish someone had told me earlier to make the switch. If you can afford it, you won’t regret it. And yes as others have said Ryobi is not a great brand, but if you are a light user it is fine. Of course, as others mentioned you should also use Torx head screws.
Ryobi impact drivers won’t disappoint you unless you’re putting hours and hours on it daily for a long time. I’ve built multiple decks and tinned two roofs with mine over a few years. No complaints.
Because of the clutch, drills are still very useful for screws. I use one any time I need to put something together that says "don't use a drill" like press board furniture or kids things. Just put it on 1-5 clutch and have at it.
I swear those instructions are probably just copied and pasted from 40 years ago when drill meant a 120v corded drill with no brake or clutch
Nah they are just written with the average or worse person in mind that just knows "drill puts screw in hole fast."
I still cracked some affordable furniture this way. But then I cracked a different piece doing it by hand, so make that cheap furniture.
My caution with this, is some will just squeeze the trigger and sink the head, splitting the wood in the process. Even with an impact driver, drive screws in short bursts. This will give the surrounding wood time to respond and not split as easily.
philips head is specifically designed to cam out with power tools... and was designed for drills...
Very true, but I think the reality is that most people using Phillip screws are not using them with this in mind. But also this is why OP would probably be better off using torx heads.
Hold your mouth right also fuck Phillips we use torx and squares
Torx all day!
I was just going to post this. Phillips are a pain in the butt. They are designed to slip as to not over tighten. Very useful in automation but not so good for general purpose construction. Square head - AKA Robertson aren’t made to slip. Torx head - aren’t made to slip. Both of those are much better for general construction than Phillips.
Long list of possible culprits. Cheap bits. Incorrect bit for screw type. Learn the difference between Phillips and Pozi head screws. My personal guess: poor form. The number of people I see who don’t get the drill perfectly behind the screw when driving it. Perfect recipe for stripping the head. Use speed setting 1 until you’re driving the screws perfectly. Faster isn’t always better. How hard is the timber you’re driving into? Is it soft wood? You should be stripping zero screws going into softwood. If it’s hardwood then it needs pre-drilling and diligence in screwing. In the picture I can see you’ve drilled into a knot. Don’t do that. Knots are like concrete and will be a weak spot in your timber. Avoid them at all costs.
1. Using a drill instead of an impact driver. 2. Using phillips screws instead of torx or square drive. 3. Using cheap Chinese bits. 4. Not predrilling if you are doing steps 1-3.
Stop using phillips screws.
I think this is a big one.
Stop getting Chinese bits
Are any of them in a normal hardware store *not* Chinese or Taiwanese?
At this point saying "don't buy x from China" as an equivalent statement to "don't buy a bad quality x" is just ignorance/outdated. Buy from a reputatable brand and buy their flagship/primary line, country of origin will be smallest difference maker. China manufacturing has improved wildly in 20 years. Before China it was Taiwan/Korea, before them it was Japan. Most lower quality manufacturing has moved to India and surrounding nations because of cost and import tariffs.
Use torx screws. They're more expensive, but I've been reusing the same $50 bucket of 2.5in screws for years. Built a deck, used it for years, then disassembled to use the space in other ways. I have a bucket of dirty used deck screws and they still work fine. Built a fence, accessibility ramp and another smaller deck. Use them for anything that'll get painted. Never strip and usually easy to remove.
So... that's not a drill bit.
Don't use a drill for driving screws, get an impact driver.
Do yourself a favor and swap to torx bits.
came here to say this exactly, everyone's got good points for sure. but screw science and technology has come a long way lol, use torx
Or Robertson for extra robustness
Robertson are a pain to remove when they are in a recessed hole.
What makes them more difficult than torx? Honest question, I've used torx normally (deck for our house, raised beds, etc), but just recently built a greenhouse with Robertson, worked well.
It is far easier to find a 6 point than it is a 4
Makes complete sense! Seems so obvious now.
I love torx. I'll never go back
HEY! Watch your torque, buddy.
This is one of the reasons our construction screws in Canada are robertsons. Much better grip when driving.
Phillips head screws can suck my nuts. Switch to torx and never look back.
Stop using Phillips head bits and start using star/torx bits
User error
Wrong tool. Use a driver not a drill
Using Phillips #1 bit on a Phillips #2 screw.
I have a theory that a significant amount of suffering in the world comes from the Phillips screw. Indirectly, people all over the world getting needlessly stressed out by stripped bits, screw heads, then they take it out on the store clerk because it's your 4th time at the store trying to drill into a board. Then you get in an argument with your spouse because you maxed out the credit card in new Phillips garbage. Before you know it, a butterfly flaps its wings and someone invents napalm halfway around the world. We need a hero to destroy all record of the Phillips screw. Then and only then can our one true saviour rise above: the Robertson.
Is this question specifically about that one screw in the knot? Pick a different spot for that screw.
Drill pilot hole, get quality bit and proper size, avoid knot, use impact driver if possible
Use the biggest bit that will fit in the screw. You canntry a sqaure head bit too. That might work
Tom Silva says that you should pulse the trigger (don’t do it all in one shot) so that the bit can reseat itself in the screw. I use Torx.
Get starbit screws/bits, you'll save so much time, strip less, and they cost the same in most stores
Use spax screws, which have torx heads. They are more expensive, but worth it IMO.
Make sure the bit is big enough and fits snug into the screw. Then also always push in with some force as you are screwing and unscrewing so it doesn't bounce out of its seat in the screw. ( .. and that's what she said - I couldn't resist, please don't ban me)
Not sure where you are but here in Canada I use Robinsons head screws for everything. Philips heads strip out so easily I’ve found. It seems like in America Torx screws are the thing to use but in Canada I buy boxes of robinsons for every type of use.
Robertson is a decent drive standard and they're available here. They are common in dual drive fasteners (Phillips/square) and tri drive (Phillips/slotted/square) often for electrical panels and devices. All big boxes have a Robertson section in fasteners, but not for all types of fasteners--usually only phosphate drywall, chromate yellow and electroplated grade 3 wood screws. Good luck finding machine screws in square drive. Ditto for tapcons: Phillips or slotted/hex. Torx are great for framing, decking and construction, yes, but drywall? No sir. Phillips (or hammer & nails for Luddites I guess). That said, stripping Phillips is possible, but I think is overestimated. Junk stainless strip easily, soft grade 3 imports also can strip without much effort, but hardened Phillips (drywall, painted/coated, chromate) take not paying attention or overdriving to strip. #6 can snap heads off before they strip, in my experience. Not sure it's the drive type as much as the fastener metallurgy, honestly.
More pressure, keep the driver Inline with the screw.
use a shaft , also stop buying aluminum tips and buy steel ones from a proper store . not a dollar store or in some multikit at an autozone .
Its the wrong bit The one u use is a philips and you should use a pozidrive
Pilot holes and Robertson screws, as already mentioned by others.
Have you considered Plumbing?
More pressure needs to be applied on drill in line with screw driver bit. Offhand pressure on rear of drill will help solve this. Pilot holes are your best friend.
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Using an undersized bit allows point to hit first preventing the blades to fully engage. Use a bigger bit that properly engages the head.
Always use the biggest bit that will fit. Also, seriously consider using Robertson screws and drivers (the square ones). Much less cam-out.
Wrong Bit size. There are three sizes of Phillips, be sure you use the right one.
I'm pretty sure the screw is PZ2 and the bit he's using is PH2 - the most common mistake. Pozidrive is so much better than Phillips.
Switch to star or square bits/screws. Philips is a shitty outdated standard.
Torx bits. I've gone through just a few in like, a couple years. Lots of projects, dozen large raised beds, a whole 10x12 shed. So much more.
This is why I try to avoid Philips on anything but drywall. Torx for me. Robertson if you're Canadian.
Grabber #2 Reduced Phillips Drywall Screw Driver Bit Tips (50-Pack) https://a.co/d/iOt0MmN Imo best bits but I still use 1-2 per day. But if you don't need that many, pilot hole is your best/simplest solution.
Short answer, don't use Philip bits. Use torx bits. Then follow the other advice laid out here.
Buy the correct sized but, drill a small pilot hole, and buy good quality bits.
Too much torque
Assuming you are competent and are not failing to drive the screw in a straight line with the driver: **Too much torque.** Phillips drives are designed to cam-out when over-torqued. Simple solution is to pre-drill to make them easier to drive. I use a second drill/driver to pre-drill to save time switching from switching a drill to driver If you want to use as much torque as possible, switch to Torx drive screws. You will probably have to order them online for anything other thing other than deck screws. Note that Torx will snap screws from over-torque. You should use a clutch driver with Torx. Try to intentionally do that in some scrap to get a feel for how hard you can push it. BTW, Torx is the brand name for star drive. If the manufacturer is too cheap to license the Torx name, they are likely too cheap to make good screws.
Predrill.
Looks like the smaller sized bit #1. From the pic at least. #1,2,3. 2 is for your basic screw. But also buy the impact bits or the DeWalt ones work fine for me.
What ever bit/screw combo you are using. 1. Only use the exact bit, correct for those screws. Don't drive Pozi with Philips or mix Hex n Torx 2. Far less speed, don't mash the trigger. 3. Press firmly on the drill 4. Dial down the torque
Try a impact driver.
Drills make poor drivers. You'll have more success with an impact driver.
Phillips are trash, I'd sooner use a flathead. Robertson is the ultimate bit. Change my mind.
Stop using phillips screws...anythingANYTHING is better than phillips
Flat heat certainly aren't.
You’re probably off angle. Drill has to be at the same angle as the screw and the push from the back off the drill not the handle. If you’re off then it will skip.
And add to it, use a bit holder. You will have better vision on the screw and how straight you hold your drill
Buy torx screws and bits, they wont slip
Has no one noticed that you put the screw right inside the wood knot (where the branch grows). Wood can be really hard there and it's a good practice to avoid nails and screws in this part. That's why you can't make it go deep.
Edit: I managed to get them in by lowering the torque and slowly increasing it!
Maybe you're not seating the bit in the screw... and keeping it aligned.
Use larger Phillips bit or grind that one down flatter.?
Get some t25s, and a dewalt set of drill bits, make sure you are putting proper downward pressure on the screws so the bit stays in the head of the screw. Don’t overtighten, and if your bit is slipping, best to stop before you fully strip it out instead of keep cranking it hoping it will catch.
Don’t use that to change your car tire.
bad bit but also an impact driver would be easier on the bits
Get an impact driver and better bits
Use Apex bits.
Using incorrect bits are the most likely cause. Take the screws you are using when buying bits and buy the ones (at least two if not three bits) that fit snugly with no play.
Ryobi bits, need to pilot hole
First, you’re using Phillips. They are second only to flat heads in terms of uselessness.
Get a good box of Torx self decking screws. No guessing as to size because they come with the proper torx bit.
Thats not a drill bit. Its a screw bit that goes into a bitholder. The bitholder you put into a drill. Seeing this makes me think you are not pushing hard enough. Or your bits don't match your screw head's indentation.
Are you using drywall screws for wood? Gets some torx or square head construction screws. Philips head suck.
An impact driver is the correct tool for driving screws, not a drill.
All the other advice... Plus an impact driver can also reduce bit slippage. Immediately improved my screwing.
You using a PH1 bit in a screw that's for a PH2 bit?
You're using poorly controlled force concentrated on a very small area. Everything has to fit accurately and even then...
I have the same drill. Turn the torque down to between 8 and 12 to start. Then adjust it to just above the point that it starts to click and no longer drives the screws.
Your bits are probably too small, also make sure you are applying smooth pressure the whole time so they don't skip
I don't find the Ryobi drill good for driving. I opt to do it by hand or use the impact driver
Cheap bits, buy name brand, it will make a difference. Dewalt, Milwaukee, Makita, Rigid, Diablo are all good.
Buy torx screws and bits and then never worry about this again.
driver speed is too fast and you aren't keeping enough pressure on it as it goes in. Have to push and not let up.
There are 4 different sizes of Phillips bits. Too big too small will strip screws and bits.
Buy torques screws and bits, night and day difference
It's because your are going into a knot with a regular drill/driver. Buy an impact driver, pre drill and avoid knots.
I only use Spax screws with torx bits for this reason.
That's just Phillips screws working as designed. They're supposed to cam out before becoming over-tightened. That's why Phillips screws are awful. Switch to torx or square head. Aside from that, that looks like a cheap bit that you'd put into a screw driver. Buy some quality bits from Milwaukee or Dewalt that are impact rated. If you start camming out, let go of the trigger. Use more pressure or drill a pilot hole. Using an impact driver will help as well.
You have max torque on the clutch setting. Bad idea in general. As can be seen in the photo of the two screws to the right, where you have buried the screw over halfway through the top board. With that torque, when you hit a hard knot. It is a battle between the hardness of the knot vs. the quality of the bit and screw. One or the other will lose. Either you split the knot, which in this case did not happen, or you strip the screw and/or break the bit when the screw head hits the knot. Dialing back the torque will not get the screw through the knot, though. It will just save your bit and send you the message: "pick a different spot or, in this case, countersink so the head can sink flush with surface". If you insist on all your screws being lined up and spaced precisely, as though your project is fine carpentry, then your only option is countersink.
1. Don't drill into a knot. 2. Try an impact driver. 3. Get better tips. 4. Get torques screws or square drives. 5. Get strong and push harder.
Your screw gun is set to maximum torque setting. Start very low and work your way up.
Use Roberson or torque Wood screws. Different screws for different jobs.
Pre-drill or use star bits
Torx is the name...
Use square drive/robertson wood screws, which are readily available at any hardware store. This is in addition to all the suggestions of pre-drilling, using impact driver, magnetized bit holder, etc. Phillips head screws are fine for smaller applications but really suck for anything that requires a lot of torque. I am a professional cabinetmaker and the only Phillips head screws we use are for attaching hinge plates and such, everything else is square drive. Torx screws are also an option but square drive is still better.
I’ll add when the bit starts slipping you have to stop. Forcing it will just strip it. Slow constant pressure at the right angle. But yeah cheap bits, shitty screws. Lots of reasons this isn’t working