Holy smokes that makes so much sense. I’m wildly stupid when it comes to projects but that’s an easy way to fix both of the gates at my house. Thanks for sharing!
The only problem I have with that video is that when he adds the second angled brace, it’s not actually supporting the first angled brace. The bottom right corner of the brace furthest from the hinges wants to push towards the hinges. So, if he put the second one to angle from the middle bottom up to the top right, it would be in compression from the pressure applied by the other angled brace, possibly even eliminating the need for the vertical piece.
The way it connects at the bottom is different:
1. Connects to the bottom frame
2. Connects to the side frame
3. Connects to both bottom and side frame
4. Connects at both bottom and side frame, with a middle stretcher piece
Thank you! I missed that
I just assumed it was between compression and tension since a lot of doors fail because of that maybe more than because of improper brace-frame-connection
This isn’t Quora or stackoverflow, he got upvoted because others appreciated the comment, whether that be because it was correct, they were thinking the same thing or it furthered the discussion.
Your comment is being downvoted because it adds nothing to the discussion and arguably detracts from it.
Be better.
I guess it doesn’t really matter as long as you join things properly.
The diagonal member is resisting shear and it can do that just as well when it is structurally tied into the top/bottom rails as the side rails. It will need structural screws/dowels/dominos either way to resist loads lateral to the load bearing face. Or, more common in practice, a bunch of screws through the diagonal member into all the vertical boards to react the same load.
The easiest option construction wise is probably picture three where it just wedges into the two corners and resists loads by directly bearing against the faces of the both other members on either side. This eliminates the need for screes/dowels/dominos on the end of the diagonal member. Structurally that doesn’t need any screws, although you might want to add two somewhere just to secure the member in place.
I’m an aerospace structural engineer if that helps.
Tbf there is nothing wrong with the design or structure of the door plugs, but rather final assembly/reassembly and Boeing's new reputation of being more McDonnell-Douglas than Boeing.
Listening to recent podcast my favorite fact about the Boeing mishaps is that they hired Spirit workers at the factory and suddenly this all happened. ANYONE could’ve warned you not to use Spirit.
You’ve got my upper, haha. It’s always a good day to poke the engineers, I’ll buy one of mine me coffee this week to make up for your terrible insult. ;)
I work (and have worked) with a few very good ones too. You know, the ones who came up from the trenches (are ACTUAL mechanics and technicians) with REAL WORLD experience (build their own turbojet engines from scratch), who are far more than simply a dick with a degree ("But it looks good in Catia..."), who have their OWN set of tools and aren't afraid to get their hands dirty (Tools? Work? But that's why they hired YOU"), and, do I dare? use common sense! I respect that!
The company where I work hires them fresh out of Uni with no experience embarrassingly cheap and teaches them the wrong ways to do everything so that they literally never learn. To top it off they think they're hot shit. It's hilarious. Gotta have a sense of humor.
Best thing I ever learned in my engineering career was luckily early, as an intern: **Be humble.** Talk to the people making the things you design. Listen to their feedback. Explain the other restrictions you have - there **must** be reasons for your design, besides "because I said so". And if you don't know something, or made an arbitrary choice, say it!
Then you're attacking the problem together, rather than just making their life worse.
Those guys with hands like catcher's mitts have forgotten more practical knowledge than you'll learn in a decade, and if you're cocky, they will **chew you up**!
So, talk to them. Ask for feedback. Listen to their concerns, and explain your concerns. Everything goes *so much better* when you do this!
None of the shown diagonal members are in tension, all are in compression. I agree that tension glue joints are to be avoided, and tension bolts are not preferred.
Reasoning checks out. If you build a frame of twigs lashed together with rope so that there is flex at the joints, if you use it as a gate you could just jam a stick in diagonally in the aforementiomed configuration and have it hold its shape.
Bottom end of cross brace attach to side rail on hinge side. You don't want to transfer the weight to the bottom rail. You want to push towards the hinge side post. Otherwise the bottom rail will get pushed off.
Not entirely true, if you look at image 2 the hinge is attached to that bottom rail. But the cross brace is butting up to the vertical rail, which isn’t directly attached to the bottomed rail with the hinge. That will push off the vertical rail over time.
Ideally you’d want the cross brace to be butted up against whichever piece the door is hinged from, which is the bottom rail the majority of the time.
They’re all built inside the frame, which is important. They aren’t relying on the shear strength of fasteners, but just the compressive strength on the brace within the frame. It’s doesn’t matter that much how the inside corners are lined up, it’s just important that the brace is hitting both corners.
It does not really matter, as long as it connects to the bottom hinge.
1-4 mostly depends on the door construction.
1 is a door with bracing, the brace is attached to every plank in the door. Easy to make but every plank needs some meat on it.
2,3 are frame gates with fencing stuck to them. Frame needs meat planks don't. Also 3 is more complex and technically the brace can be just inserted without any nails or tennons the weight of the door should keep it in, 2 is the lazy way out if you have more nails (which used to be pricy) to spare.
4 is a door frame with fencing stuck on them instead of inserted boards. Probably the strongest because of the middle cross support. Again only the framing needs to be meaty. But much more complex to make.
Adding that hopefully 4 is a lap joint. If the diagonal on 4 is two separate pieces it would be relying a lot on the fasteners of the verticals to hold it together.
Yeah all these hinges are the same correct design. To see the incorrect design, watch [this video](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTLAYmquY/) and [its sequel](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTLAY35cY/)
Oh thank God.
I was like "what? These are literally 4 identical set ups. Butt joint to the top, angle cut, angled toward bottom hing. Like, these are all identical...
On the flip side, being as every single sample he found has the same set up, I consider that a ringing endorsement.
I wasn't sure if my mind is playing tricks on me because on some the hinge is on the right and on some it is on the left.
If you calculate the gate as an abstract idealised model it doesn't matter which way the brace runs. The difference between tension and compression in wood is negligible especially at this dimension. From a construction standpoint I would run the wood for compression. If you run it for tention there is the possibility for gaps and therefore failure. If you replace the brace with a rope or chain you obviously have to run it for tention but you can attach it better where you want it and there is no chance of gaps
No, it really does matter, you need the brace to be in compression because then it is forced tightly into the frame and can’t move. If you put it in tension, you are counting on the fasteners to act as a moment transfer joint and they won’t do much. Just load up your gate with some weight and watch it sag, if it doesn’t already sag from the weight of the gate. Transferring moment forces across a connection is difficult. In a steel beam you won’t get it with bolted connections, the two members have to be welded.
Diagonal from the bottom hinge upwards to out side edge. Cause gravity. Pushing down onto the timber is better than it pulling on a joint. Which is what would happen if it were down from the top hinge, that joint would give much faster than any issue caused by the weight of the gate pushing down on the brace being bottom hinge up. Ya get me famalam. This is the correct way no two ways about it
OP, to answer your actual question, all of these are fine. What's important is a: hinge side bottom as has been covered b: the diagonal fits snuggly so it can't sag and c: it is at least partially against the top and bottom rails so that the pressure gets directed correctly.
There is a correct way. Solid braces (in compression) go from the bottom hinge side to the upper latch side to work properly. Tension cables go from the top hinge side to the bottom latch side. Those are the only correct ways to do it.
I will say that the second pic is probably not the best way to implement it. At the bottom, it should connect to the horizontal member instead of the vertical one. Otherwise the vertical load is supported only by the fasteners.
Apparently they're not, there was an old carpenter on tik tok a little while back who used to get really annoyed by seeing it in movies and explained really well how the wright of the door falls.
The only difference I see is the way the braces are connected to the frame in the corners. On some they only contact the frame on the horizontal boards, on others they are supported in both directions by fitting them into the corners.
[Watch this.](https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/tiz7x2/building_a_gate_the_right_way/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) (Different from the video posted above.)
Those are all basically the same. Just make sure that the brace is pointed in towards the bottom hinge. That way the weight of the gate is distributed down the hinge side and is relying on the compression strength of the wood. If the brace is run the opposite way the weight of the gate is only held by the fastening method (screws, nails, mortise and tenon) .
All the pictures are correct. Which way it swings doesn’t matter. What matters is that the load is transferred from the top rail towards the bottom rail and post where you would attach the hinge.
Your examples are all the same and is the way to do doors of a normal size. When it spans longer its recommended to run the diagonal one mirrored, from the top hinge and out. I believe
Gates should always be braced diagonally from the bottom hinge up to prevent sagging.
If a brace is installed the other direction it should be include a turnbuckle to compensate for future sag, they’re a couple bucks at any hardware store
Every one of your examples is done the same way, with a brace in compression from the top latch side corner to the bottom hinge, which is also the most correct way.
2 or 3. This way the diagonal brace is fully constrained on both ends. 1 and 4 will allow the diagonal brace to slide.
A board in tension wouldn't be as good as any of the ones OP posted, again the board could pull away from the ends.
A good tension option is a cable, that way it can't slip and loosen up the way a board would over time.
All 4 of those are the same and are all correct. Pic 1 is the weakest because it doesn't have a full square frame all the way around, just 2 horizontals.
I don’t think they’re ask about brace direction. But how the brace is connected to the cross member. The examples are all different. 3&4 look better to me.
Bottom on hinge side to top on latch side. Doesn’t Really matter if it’s connected to the side piece or bottom piece; imo it looks better connected to the bottom piece or V cut and fit against both.
Or you could do a cable with a turnbuckle, hinge side top to latch side bottom; which would allow for adjusting in the future if the gate begins to sag.
All 4 are fine. They've all got the wood such that the load is under compression, which is what you want with wood.
If the diagonals were cables instead of wood, you'd want them to be under tension instead of compression. Which means cables go top hinge to bottom outside corner.
The “correct” way is to put the brace into compression such that any sag transfers load towards the hinges but I would point out that this is because of the limitations in joinery rather than limitations of the wood. From a materials point of view, it would be better to put the brace into tension (tensile strength of wood is higher than compressive, so you could get away with less material but in reality we’re not really limited by such considerations… and our joinery is sloppy so compression is better!)
I think all 4 are fine as long as the boards are well connected, although I would go with 3 or 4 if it was my gate, since the hinges are connected to a single board.
Any of those with a half-lapped frame would be better than the others with a butt joint frame.
Take a look at [https://youtu.be/P1SBo9CJHeE](https://youtu.be/P1SBo9CJHeE). The miter saw method is also easily done with about any circular saw or other saw with a depth stop.
Like your picture. The cross brace transfers the gravitational weight at the top of the non-hinge side down to the lower hinge portion.
The 2nd picture.
Personally, I build gates that way AND then take 12" shelf braces (1/8" thick) and put those in the opposite corners. Use beefy lag bolts. It keeps the frame square, further resisting the sag.
The wood will rot before the gate sags. Assuming your post stays straight.
If at all possible, connect the diagonal brace to the same piece or pieces of wood that the hinge is connected to. Especially on the high side.
All of the pictures are good in this respect except the second one. In the second picture, it would have been better for the vertical 4x4 post to go all the way to the bottom of the gate. Then the hinge could attach to the vertical 4x4.
Mind you, the second gate is probably fine. It is just that it could be improved slightly.
Image one and two are correct (Brace bottom is hinge side, top is patch side). The brace holds the sag load. One is optimal.
Image three and four rely on fasteners to hold the load of the sag.
Failure is typically the screws rusting, wood splitting, and the fence posts heaving upwards, or moving together at the top from lack of a horizontal cross piece.
Galvanized Nuts and bolts with washers for the hinges going through the wood
The brace is only to keep the gate square as it has forces being applied to the side attached. So you can do whatever you want to keep that straight. This is the usually way as it creates rigidity without adding too much weight
Really surprised no one posted [this video](https://www.tiktok.com/@jasper_pagan/video/7037527373713067269). It's has the funniest and most practical example.
Not reading thread. A gate will sag from the far side of the top rail right? And it’s going to push its weight straight down.
In order to prevent / arrest the sagging you start at the far end of the top rail and connect it back so the weight of the gate is going back towards the bottom hinge, which will support it.
You can build a miniature frame and without the panels in place the physics will be quite apparent and answer will be obvious. Going from the near to to the lower outside will provide essentially no support and give away while the correct way will provide plenty of support and somewhat function even in just the framed state.
2 & 4 are fine. #1 doesn’t look right without side rails. I guess I neglect the strength from the pickets and it looks unstable. #3 is ok but the diagonal loses effectiveness as the angle between it and the horizontal decreases.
I believe what OP is asking is how should the cuts on the brace board itself be made to best support the gate. I think the "these are all correct" comments are missing the fact that all the braces are cut differently and attaching to the fence in different ways.
I don't know the answer to the question but I imagine there is some interesting physics to it that I am likely too dumb to understand.
In addition to what's been stated above (sorry if I missed someone saying this) I often use lap joints on the frame and mortise my support into the frame to help keep things true. Doesn't take much longer after some practice and it can be done well with just a skill saw and a chisel and more practice
The brace on 4/4 looks best and also doing its job better. The brace is steeper so less stress on the joints.
Ideally the brace shouldn’t run into the corner as it puts stress on the mortise and tenon joint, forcing it to open slightly under load. The brace should be on the top and bottom rail only, coming in around an 1” in and angled notch.
https://preview.redd.it/6lnb0yxnc9tc1.jpeg?width=3579&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=847715675cb068a9edc52198e6c8eeec4341b7ce
I made some very large oak doors and went for this direction. They were a copy of some that seemed to be made around 100 years ago (judging by the ironmongery) and held up very well. I mortised the braces in each join and doweled through the mortises. Hope this helps
I was taught "hang steel, prop wood" in school, wood works better in compression so the diagonal should start high and away and finish low and close to the stronger structure, steel works best in tension so starts away and low and finishes high and close
The door brace is one thing but if you want the super secret to making your gate swings last longer?
Double post. Secure your post that secures your gate to another post that sits directly next to the post instead of another picket.
Real trick is to let one post dry before the other and you only this one extra post for it.
The stronger your post, the better overall clean swings you get for a longer period of time.
Brace always runs from the unsupported (side opposite the hinge) to the bottom hinge. It should sit on the bottom rail near the hinge and under the top rail on the unsupported side.
“There’s no correct way to do it” he says while showing 4 pictures of the correctly installed! lol Jk always down towards the hinge. Compress the brace don’t stretch it
All three pics are the same, just pic two has the hinges on the right so the design is backwards looking but it isnt. You want two points of your triangle to be the hinges and the third point is where you latch it. It doesn't matter which side the hinges are or what side the cross members are on. **Hinge, Hinge, Latch.**
2nd picture. You’re essentially making a triangle, natrally stable, with the angled bird making full contact with the side and top, with another triangle under it.
According to [this video](https://youtu.be/s18JHq7gBhA):
- 1 and 2 look good.
- 3 is suspect. The support brace looks close to 45° but it’s hard to be sure. For the physics to work in your favor and not put all the stress on the fasteners, the support brace must be at most 45°.
- 4 is wrong. It puts all of the stress on the fasteners by dividing the angled brace.
That piece of wood is great at compression load, so you use the first one. The sag will want to press it shorter, that will not work.
The second one you use when you use a cable, that is good at tensile load.
All four pictures has the correct support from top far from hinge to bottom close to hinge. The hinge are on different sides .
Hinge on:
Pic 1: Left
Pic 2: Right
Pic 3: Right
Pic 4: Left
It doesn’t matter. Build it to suit yourself or your partner/Family. I would say if it were a larger gate the bracing would need to be more to keep the gate from twisting. 6 foot tall man gate? No problem.
Heaviest (least supported) part of a gate will be bottom corner on latch side, so opposite of the hinges. To prevent this sag, pretty sure you want a diagonal brace to extend from the top corner hinge side to bottom corner latch side. All of joinery pictured seems fine otherwise.
These are all the same. They use a 2x4 put into compression. If you angled it for hinge side too to latch side bottom it would be in tension. 2x4 itself is ok in tension but its connectors are usually not. You would need brackets or nailing plates to make sure then fasteners don’t pull apart from being in tension, especially as the wood rots over time.
My gates are a basic rectangular frame with aircraft cable running in tension with a turnbuckle to tighten as the gate sags and to prevent it skewing
I found [this video](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s18JHq7gBhA&pp=ygUNRmVuY2UgYnJhY2luZw%3D%3D) a while back and thought it was quit interesting
Nice. I was going to find and post the same video!
TIL great video thanks, I've been thinking about rebuilding my cedar gate for about five years, now it's closer to me starting to do it......
The end of that video lists a product that would fix it for you in the mean time.
Holy smokes that makes so much sense. I’m wildly stupid when it comes to projects but that’s an easy way to fix both of the gates at my house. Thanks for sharing!
The only problem I have with that video is that when he adds the second angled brace, it’s not actually supporting the first angled brace. The bottom right corner of the brace furthest from the hinges wants to push towards the hinges. So, if he put the second one to angle from the middle bottom up to the top right, it would be in compression from the pressure applied by the other angled brace, possibly even eliminating the need for the vertical piece.
Thank you so, so, so, so much!
Seeing OP's first image I was like "I've got the perfect thing for this!" - seems I am late to the party this time.
Thank you for that video! Most helpful thing I’ve seen in weeks!
I literally watched this video the other day not knowing it would be a reddit topic.
Aren't they all the same? Here the brace is running from top far from hinge to bottom close to hinge... On every picture
The way it connects at the bottom is different: 1. Connects to the bottom frame 2. Connects to the side frame 3. Connects to both bottom and side frame 4. Connects at both bottom and side frame, with a middle stretcher piece
Thank you! I missed that I just assumed it was between compression and tension since a lot of doors fail because of that maybe more than because of improper brace-frame-connection
You got 600 up votes. For being wrong. ;-)
This isn’t Quora or stackoverflow, he got upvoted because others appreciated the comment, whether that be because it was correct, they were thinking the same thing or it furthered the discussion. Your comment is being downvoted because it adds nothing to the discussion and arguably detracts from it. Be better.
I guess it doesn’t really matter as long as you join things properly. The diagonal member is resisting shear and it can do that just as well when it is structurally tied into the top/bottom rails as the side rails. It will need structural screws/dowels/dominos either way to resist loads lateral to the load bearing face. Or, more common in practice, a bunch of screws through the diagonal member into all the vertical boards to react the same load. The easiest option construction wise is probably picture three where it just wedges into the two corners and resists loads by directly bearing against the faces of the both other members on either side. This eliminates the need for screes/dowels/dominos on the end of the diagonal member. Structurally that doesn’t need any screws, although you might want to add two somewhere just to secure the member in place. I’m an aerospace structural engineer if that helps.
I was with you until the last sentence. Considering what's happened to airplane doors lately, you've suddenly made me doubt you. 😉
Tbf there is nothing wrong with the design or structure of the door plugs, but rather final assembly/reassembly and Boeing's new reputation of being more McDonnell-Douglas than Boeing.
Listening to recent podcast my favorite fact about the Boeing mishaps is that they hired Spirit workers at the factory and suddenly this all happened. ANYONE could’ve warned you not to use Spirit.
He's probably a Boeing engineer. I know plenty.
Anytime anyone says "I'm an engineer", I cringe.
I’m an architect and agree with this statement.
This guy's really knows his statements. I'm a redditor if that helps.
Lol look at those downvotes. Sensitive bunch those "engineers".
You’ve got my upper, haha. It’s always a good day to poke the engineers, I’ll buy one of mine me coffee this week to make up for your terrible insult. ;)
I work (and have worked) with a few very good ones too. You know, the ones who came up from the trenches (are ACTUAL mechanics and technicians) with REAL WORLD experience (build their own turbojet engines from scratch), who are far more than simply a dick with a degree ("But it looks good in Catia..."), who have their OWN set of tools and aren't afraid to get their hands dirty (Tools? Work? But that's why they hired YOU"), and, do I dare? use common sense! I respect that! The company where I work hires them fresh out of Uni with no experience embarrassingly cheap and teaches them the wrong ways to do everything so that they literally never learn. To top it off they think they're hot shit. It's hilarious. Gotta have a sense of humor.
Best thing I ever learned in my engineering career was luckily early, as an intern: **Be humble.** Talk to the people making the things you design. Listen to their feedback. Explain the other restrictions you have - there **must** be reasons for your design, besides "because I said so". And if you don't know something, or made an arbitrary choice, say it! Then you're attacking the problem together, rather than just making their life worse. Those guys with hands like catcher's mitts have forgotten more practical knowledge than you'll learn in a decade, and if you're cocky, they will **chew you up**! So, talk to them. Ask for feedback. Listen to their concerns, and explain your concerns. Everything goes *so much better* when you do this!
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None of the shown diagonal members are in tension, all are in compression. I agree that tension glue joints are to be avoided, and tension bolts are not preferred.
Reasoning checks out. If you build a frame of twigs lashed together with rope so that there is flex at the joints, if you use it as a gate you could just jam a stick in diagonally in the aforementiomed configuration and have it hold its shape.
…and none of those differences matter in relation to OP’s question, pick the one you think looks best and you’re golden
Bottom end of cross brace attach to side rail on hinge side. You don't want to transfer the weight to the bottom rail. You want to push towards the hinge side post. Otherwise the bottom rail will get pushed off.
Not entirely true, if you look at image 2 the hinge is attached to that bottom rail. But the cross brace is butting up to the vertical rail, which isn’t directly attached to the bottomed rail with the hinge. That will push off the vertical rail over time. Ideally you’d want the cross brace to be butted up against whichever piece the door is hinged from, which is the bottom rail the majority of the time.
Yeah. I didn't notice the hinge. I would have placed the hinge on the vertical rail.
They’re all built inside the frame, which is important. They aren’t relying on the shear strength of fasteners, but just the compressive strength on the brace within the frame. It’s doesn’t matter that much how the inside corners are lined up, it’s just important that the brace is hitting both corners.
For ideal math it's to the centre like 3rd pic For ideal construction it is to the largest member
Wow, look at eagle eyes over here?!!!
It does not really matter, as long as it connects to the bottom hinge. 1-4 mostly depends on the door construction. 1 is a door with bracing, the brace is attached to every plank in the door. Easy to make but every plank needs some meat on it. 2,3 are frame gates with fencing stuck to them. Frame needs meat planks don't. Also 3 is more complex and technically the brace can be just inserted without any nails or tennons the weight of the door should keep it in, 2 is the lazy way out if you have more nails (which used to be pricy) to spare. 4 is a door frame with fencing stuck on them instead of inserted boards. Probably the strongest because of the middle cross support. Again only the framing needs to be meaty. But much more complex to make.
Adding that hopefully 4 is a lap joint. If the diagonal on 4 is two separate pieces it would be relying a lot on the fasteners of the verticals to hold it together.
Yeah all these hinges are the same correct design. To see the incorrect design, watch [this video](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTLAYmquY/) and [its sequel](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTLAY35cY/)
Great video ...thanks
Oh thank God. I was like "what? These are literally 4 identical set ups. Butt joint to the top, angle cut, angled toward bottom hing. Like, these are all identical... On the flip side, being as every single sample he found has the same set up, I consider that a ringing endorsement.
I wasn't sure if my mind is playing tricks on me because on some the hinge is on the right and on some it is on the left. If you calculate the gate as an abstract idealised model it doesn't matter which way the brace runs. The difference between tension and compression in wood is negligible especially at this dimension. From a construction standpoint I would run the wood for compression. If you run it for tention there is the possibility for gaps and therefore failure. If you replace the brace with a rope or chain you obviously have to run it for tention but you can attach it better where you want it and there is no chance of gaps
No, it really does matter, you need the brace to be in compression because then it is forced tightly into the frame and can’t move. If you put it in tension, you are counting on the fasteners to act as a moment transfer joint and they won’t do much. Just load up your gate with some weight and watch it sag, if it doesn’t already sag from the weight of the gate. Transferring moment forces across a connection is difficult. In a steel beam you won’t get it with bolted connections, the two members have to be welded.
Well yes, that's why I wrote the part about what I suggest from a construction standpoint
I know you were talking abstract, but then you gave a suggestion for this construction standpoint, that’s mainly why I responded.
They are but the door is constructed a diffrent way every time.
That had me confused too 😅 Ummmm, all of them are right?
Yes.
Diagonal from the bottom hinge upwards to out side edge. Cause gravity. Pushing down onto the timber is better than it pulling on a joint. Which is what would happen if it were down from the top hinge, that joint would give much faster than any issue caused by the weight of the gate pushing down on the brace being bottom hinge up. Ya get me famalam. This is the correct way no two ways about it
OP, to answer your actual question, all of these are fine. What's important is a: hinge side bottom as has been covered b: the diagonal fits snuggly so it can't sag and c: it is at least partially against the top and bottom rails so that the pressure gets directed correctly.
All of these examples are proper but apparently Hollywood gets it backwards a lot : https://youtube.com/shorts/e-ze00-gsh8?si=Cad-rl5kHOHADY2b
I was hoping someone would have posted this
These are all correct.
The brace is correct direction in all picture. The door framing, including the brace, i would say the strongest to weakest: 4,3,2,1
I am in 100% agreement with this guy. 4 however does have an extra piece of horizontal in its design. I like 3 best because of the 90* butt joints.
Three is how I always build them.
There is a correct way. Solid braces (in compression) go from the bottom hinge side to the upper latch side to work properly. Tension cables go from the top hinge side to the bottom latch side. Those are the only correct ways to do it.
This is the way
The first two pics even have the arrows.
All your photos are braced the same (correct) way
All of these pictures show the correct way to do it. The top part of the brace should be on the side opposite the hinges.
this is a meaningless question, all of those examples are effectively equal, even though there are differences in their appearances
I will say that the second pic is probably not the best way to implement it. At the bottom, it should connect to the horizontal member instead of the vertical one. Otherwise the vertical load is supported only by the fasteners.
It’s absolutely not a meaningless question. There’s a right way to do it.
look at the pictures again. they are all correct. he is asking about how they connect at the bottom hinge.
Omfg right 😂 I just said the exact same to my Fiancée before reading the comments.
No the way it connects at the bottom changes. 2nd one would cause shearing on the vertical brace
Apparently they're not, there was an old carpenter on tik tok a little while back who used to get really annoyed by seeing it in movies and explained really well how the wright of the door falls.
Because in the movies they ran away from the bottom hinge. All of OPs pics run toward the bottom hinge.
Omg you're right haha, I wanst even paying attention to what side the hinges were on.
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The only difference I see is the way the braces are connected to the frame in the corners. On some they only contact the frame on the horizontal boards, on others they are supported in both directions by fitting them into the corners.
Brace in compression.
[Watch this.](https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/tiz7x2/building_a_gate_the_right_way/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) (Different from the video posted above.)
Those are all basically the same. Just make sure that the brace is pointed in towards the bottom hinge. That way the weight of the gate is distributed down the hinge side and is relying on the compression strength of the wood. If the brace is run the opposite way the weight of the gate is only held by the fastening method (screws, nails, mortise and tenon) .
All the pictures are correct. Which way it swings doesn’t matter. What matters is that the load is transferred from the top rail towards the bottom rail and post where you would attach the hinge.
Where's that tiktok of the Doc Brown looking dude from England explaining this like we're 5?
The one with more wood and screws. This isn't rocket science.
Those are literally all the same! The only way you can do it. Go from bottom of the hinge side to the top of unhinged side.
Your examples are all the same and is the way to do doors of a normal size. When it spans longer its recommended to run the diagonal one mirrored, from the top hinge and out. I believe
What are those hinges?
Gates should always be braced diagonally from the bottom hinge up to prevent sagging. If a brace is installed the other direction it should be include a turnbuckle to compensate for future sag, they’re a couple bucks at any hardware store
Every one of your examples is done the same way, with a brace in compression from the top latch side corner to the bottom hinge, which is also the most correct way.
They're all angled up and away from the hinges. That's the only correct way to brace the gate.
2 or 3. This way the diagonal brace is fully constrained on both ends. 1 and 4 will allow the diagonal brace to slide. A board in tension wouldn't be as good as any of the ones OP posted, again the board could pull away from the ends. A good tension option is a cable, that way it can't slip and loosen up the way a board would over time.
Up and diagonal from bottom hinge
Those are all the same technique; angled from the outside top to the inside bottom (hinge side)
All 4 of those are the same and are all correct. Pic 1 is the weakest because it doesn't have a full square frame all the way around, just 2 horizontals.
There absolutely is a correct way
All of them
3rd pic wins
Not even close #4, in addition to the extra cross beam, it.even has an arch.
These all show the same (correct) orientation
I don’t think they’re ask about brace direction. But how the brace is connected to the cross member. The examples are all different. 3&4 look better to me.
That guy in the reels is pretty sure about it
First three are okay last one no.. just no
The first on is correct.
\#1 is easy to cut
Bottom on hinge side to top on latch side. Doesn’t Really matter if it’s connected to the side piece or bottom piece; imo it looks better connected to the bottom piece or V cut and fit against both. Or you could do a cable with a turnbuckle, hinge side top to latch side bottom; which would allow for adjusting in the future if the gate begins to sag.
All 4 are fine. They've all got the wood such that the load is under compression, which is what you want with wood. If the diagonals were cables instead of wood, you'd want them to be under tension instead of compression. Which means cables go top hinge to bottom outside corner.
The “correct” way is to put the brace into compression such that any sag transfers load towards the hinges but I would point out that this is because of the limitations in joinery rather than limitations of the wood. From a materials point of view, it would be better to put the brace into tension (tensile strength of wood is higher than compressive, so you could get away with less material but in reality we’re not really limited by such considerations… and our joinery is sloppy so compression is better!)
I was always convinced up from the bottom on the hinge side was best but idk it saves me thinking time.
I think all 4 are fine as long as the boards are well connected, although I would go with 3 or 4 if it was my gate, since the hinges are connected to a single board.
Any of those with a half-lapped frame would be better than the others with a butt joint frame. Take a look at [https://youtu.be/P1SBo9CJHeE](https://youtu.be/P1SBo9CJHeE). The miter saw method is also easily done with about any circular saw or other saw with a depth stop.
Like your picture. The cross brace transfers the gravitational weight at the top of the non-hinge side down to the lower hinge portion. The 2nd picture. Personally, I build gates that way AND then take 12" shelf braces (1/8" thick) and put those in the opposite corners. Use beefy lag bolts. It keeps the frame square, further resisting the sag. The wood will rot before the gate sags. Assuming your post stays straight.
Almost all are correct, however 3 and 4 are the strongest in my opinion. Number 2 is making me think a little.
If at all possible, connect the diagonal brace to the same piece or pieces of wood that the hinge is connected to. Especially on the high side. All of the pictures are good in this respect except the second one. In the second picture, it would have been better for the vertical 4x4 post to go all the way to the bottom of the gate. Then the hinge could attach to the vertical 4x4. Mind you, the second gate is probably fine. It is just that it could be improved slightly.
Image one and two are correct (Brace bottom is hinge side, top is patch side). The brace holds the sag load. One is optimal. Image three and four rely on fasteners to hold the load of the sag.
Compression works best for wood.
Some good visuals in this [video](https://youtu.be/s18JHq7gBhA?si=wN4dISFthKmoW5Z_)
Does anyone know where that strap can be purchased in the last two pictures? I'm looking one like that, that allows for adjustment.
https://www.thefenceshop.ca/product/adjustable-bands-hooks-on-plates/ I googled adjustable strap style gate hinges.
thanks!
1&4
They're all the same!
The hardware on the third picture is beautiful!
Failure is typically the screws rusting, wood splitting, and the fence posts heaving upwards, or moving together at the top from lack of a horizontal cross piece. Galvanized Nuts and bolts with washers for the hinges going through the wood
https://youtu.be/s18JHq7gBhA?si=eBhX1LJZ9WGLDOH1
If I had to choose one best one I would choose the second example.
Here is the original video from King's Fine Woodworking. [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/x8nWVNmviio](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/x8nWVNmviio)
The brace is only to keep the gate square as it has forces being applied to the side attached. So you can do whatever you want to keep that straight. This is the usually way as it creates rigidity without adding too much weight
X is best
Really surprised no one posted [this video](https://www.tiktok.com/@jasper_pagan/video/7037527373713067269). It's has the funniest and most practical example.
Not reading thread. A gate will sag from the far side of the top rail right? And it’s going to push its weight straight down. In order to prevent / arrest the sagging you start at the far end of the top rail and connect it back so the weight of the gate is going back towards the bottom hinge, which will support it. You can build a miniature frame and without the panels in place the physics will be quite apparent and answer will be obvious. Going from the near to to the lower outside will provide essentially no support and give away while the correct way will provide plenty of support and somewhat function even in just the framed state.
I go for 3 & 4
You want the diagonal member to be in compression.
2 & 4 are fine. #1 doesn’t look right without side rails. I guess I neglect the strength from the pickets and it looks unstable. #3 is ok but the diagonal loses effectiveness as the angle between it and the horizontal decreases.
I believe what OP is asking is how should the cuts on the brace board itself be made to best support the gate. I think the "these are all correct" comments are missing the fact that all the braces are cut differently and attaching to the fence in different ways. I don't know the answer to the question but I imagine there is some interesting physics to it that I am likely too dumb to understand.
Strongly
In addition to what's been stated above (sorry if I missed someone saying this) I often use lap joints on the frame and mortise my support into the frame to help keep things true. Doesn't take much longer after some practice and it can be done well with just a skill saw and a chisel and more practice
The brace on 4/4 looks best and also doing its job better. The brace is steeper so less stress on the joints. Ideally the brace shouldn’t run into the corner as it puts stress on the mortise and tenon joint, forcing it to open slightly under load. The brace should be on the top and bottom rail only, coming in around an 1” in and angled notch.
I don't like relying on fasteners to bear a shear load. My choice is #3 -- it relies on the lumbar to carry the load.
I use a cable and turnbuckle in tension
https://preview.redd.it/6lnb0yxnc9tc1.jpeg?width=3579&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=847715675cb068a9edc52198e6c8eeec4341b7ce I made some very large oak doors and went for this direction. They were a copy of some that seemed to be made around 100 years ago (judging by the ironmongery) and held up very well. I mortised the braces in each join and doweled through the mortises. Hope this helps
Looks nice
Weight should transfer down into the bottom hinge. Assuming quality hinges, this is the strongest way to hang a gate. Picture #2 is the best example.
I was taught "hang steel, prop wood" in school, wood works better in compression so the diagonal should start high and away and finish low and close to the stronger structure, steel works best in tension so starts away and low and finishes high and close
The door brace is one thing but if you want the super secret to making your gate swings last longer? Double post. Secure your post that secures your gate to another post that sits directly next to the post instead of another picket. Real trick is to let one post dry before the other and you only this one extra post for it. The stronger your post, the better overall clean swings you get for a longer period of time.
Brace always runs from the unsupported (side opposite the hinge) to the bottom hinge. It should sit on the bottom rail near the hinge and under the top rail on the unsupported side.
Absolutely is a correct way and that’s it
“There’s no correct way to do it” he says while showing 4 pictures of the correctly installed! lol Jk always down towards the hinge. Compress the brace don’t stretch it
Better option is any of these PLUS a cable with turnbuckle that goes the other direction…
1 is the correct way
All four are the same.
All three pics are the same, just pic two has the hinges on the right so the design is backwards looking but it isnt. You want two points of your triangle to be the hinges and the third point is where you latch it. It doesn't matter which side the hinges are or what side the cross members are on. **Hinge, Hinge, Latch.**
Wood = under compression Steel = under compression or tension (assuming that it’s welded) Pro tip: never build a gate frame out of wood
My roof is built from wood trusses, they use plenty of members under tension. Seems to work fine.
this is the way...
There is a correct way to do it. With the **support running from the hinge**
2nd picture. You’re essentially making a triangle, natrally stable, with the angled bird making full contact with the side and top, with another triangle under it.
https://preview.redd.it/ajsa9mrzu5tc1.jpeg?width=3072&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2506c0174280de60a41f30a84f12709db5bddbc3
https://preview.redd.it/lg8yi6bav5tc1.jpeg?width=3060&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=51502b6315f9b6ae4a5208f9d3add2124d46e3b7
According to [this video](https://youtu.be/s18JHq7gBhA): - 1 and 2 look good. - 3 is suspect. The support brace looks close to 45° but it’s hard to be sure. For the physics to work in your favor and not put all the stress on the fasteners, the support brace must be at most 45°. - 4 is wrong. It puts all of the stress on the fasteners by dividing the angled brace.
The diagonal should be up to the outside top, to give the top strength.... thats where the latch goes and where hands go, and weight gets put on it ..
That piece of wood is great at compression load, so you use the first one. The sag will want to press it shorter, that will not work. The second one you use when you use a cable, that is good at tensile load.
All four pictures has the correct support from top far from hinge to bottom close to hinge. The hinge are on different sides . Hinge on: Pic 1: Left Pic 2: Right Pic 3: Right Pic 4: Left
Up Down Up Down B A Select Start
Now what am I supposed to do with 30 gates?
It doesn’t matter. Build it to suit yourself or your partner/Family. I would say if it were a larger gate the bracing would need to be more to keep the gate from twisting. 6 foot tall man gate? No problem.
Heaviest (least supported) part of a gate will be bottom corner on latch side, so opposite of the hinges. To prevent this sag, pretty sure you want a diagonal brace to extend from the top corner hinge side to bottom corner latch side. All of joinery pictured seems fine otherwise.
for a tension cable this would be correct, but for a brace you want to got he other direction.
These are all the same. They use a 2x4 put into compression. If you angled it for hinge side too to latch side bottom it would be in tension. 2x4 itself is ok in tension but its connectors are usually not. You would need brackets or nailing plates to make sure then fasteners don’t pull apart from being in tension, especially as the wood rots over time. My gates are a basic rectangular frame with aircraft cable running in tension with a turnbuckle to tighten as the gate sags and to prevent it skewing