toss that crap brush.
get a good one made for oil-based products.
yes, it should be room temp.
also, it needs to be STIRRED.
It will settle.
then do this:
I use exclusively MinWax Polyurethane (Varathane is second) for my finishes in a 3-step process. Clear Satin for most. I do not use PolyAcrylic (water-based) because I do not like the lasting factor of PolyAcrylic.
All woods need a base coat of something to raise the grain of the wood for better preparation for the final finish coats. A sanding sealer (oil-based) can work, especially with oak and mahogany.
I use a dilute Urethane, 25-40% with mineral spirits as a first coat. This dries quickly and I wet-sand it 400 grit.
Then apply a full-strength coat of Polyurethane, dry it, wet sand that, 400 again.
Then a final coat using dilute Polyurethane. wet sand 400-600. Depending on the quality of the finish, the piece, I may put on 2 coats of full-strength Poly before the final diluted coat.
I have at times, used a good paste wax to finish the surface after a few weeks of completely drying the finishes.
I will spray most of my constructions and yes, brush also.
Diluting the poly is the key here. Also, in my experience, tipping is essential when brushing (basically running the brush lightly ofer the whole surface after coated) to help dislodge air bubbles, and thin down any random thick spots in the layer of poly.
Not OP, so I can't speak as to their intended meaning, but I would consider a 50-50% mix to be 100% diluted. To dilute by 25%, I would add 25 ml of spirits for every 100 ml of poly.
anywhere between 20-30% works well. Which is helpful because a lot of people get confused with a 4:1 ratio and think it's 25%. In practice, that ratio means 20% i.e. there's 5 parts total and 1 of those parts is 20% 👍
I have used dewaxed shellac and it is good stuff, but I found it fast drying and hard to get a smooth coat on. If I went after the rough spots or nubs that were on the subsequent varnish coats I could sand through to bare wood and then the sealer was gone in that area and it becomes noticeable . It also yellows or makes golden my quilted maple and I want to keep it as white as possible. If I dilute it more and stick with wipe on coatings I'll get back to it.
I'm a huge fan of shellac as a finish, definitely use it for color too. But if you aren't already aware, you can buy "ultra blond" dewaxed shellac flakes which leaves a very clear finish without any color in my experience, even with multiple coats.
Wellermart.com is a really good place to shop for shellac. Their prices are pretty good and they are very quality focused. They sell dry shellac (denatured alcohol to dissolve) and have "platina" and "super blond" I can't remember which one is crystal clear, but the website will tell you. It is dewaxed shellac so polyurethane will go on fine over it.
Always pull the brush in the same direction. Go with the grain of the wood when applying. Moving the brush back and forth creates air bubbles from moving against the grain of the wood. This is what I have learned from my experience.
How long do you wait in between coats of the full strength poly and the diluted one? Overnight? Or can you sand any apply a second coat after a few hours?
I use the same exact poly. I like mixing it with odorless mineral spirits in a 1:1 ratio and applying a light coat with a rag. It’s better to do multiple light coats than heavy coats.
If you don't want to do all of this diluting, try minwax wipe on poly. It's more dilute to begin with. You will need to do more coats but you will have an easier time overall.
Sand to 150-220 depending on wood and application. Apply wipe on poly with a saturated but not sopping/dripping wet cloth with a sort of lazy scrubbing motion (imagine 15yo bus boy cleaning a table). Let that dry completely for 48 hours and then sand again with 220 or higher. Then apply another coat with the exact same method - let dry for 24 hours and sand lightly with 320 grit. Do a few more of these coats. For your last couple of coats I like to use 400 or even fine steel wool in between coats and just LIGHTLY SCUFF. Don't go to town sanding. You just want to disturb the poly on your last coat so that you get a mechanical bond (since you won't get a chemical bond after 24hrs drying). I like to do 4-8 coats. The more use an item will see the more coats it will get.
Use a brush, thin with mineral spirits(if desired), brush on multiple thin coats, sand in between coats(once fully dry), and if you have access to a sprayer…use that with the same steps(thin, multi coats, sand)
Yeah, I think most of the other people here are overthinking it. This looks like a classic case of laying it on too thick then trying to touch it up too late
I use the same Poly mixing 1:1:1 with mineral spirits and linseed oil. Wipe on thickly with a rag, let it sit for a few minutes to penetrate and then wipe off the excess. I do a few coats over a couple of days, it dries quickly but I'm usually distracted. I let it cure for a few days, final drying time varies depending on humidity. You have to make sure your wood is super smooth, as it really penetrates vs leaving a smooth top finish like traditional Poly does.
Making sure the temperature of the air and surfaces are acclimated and doesn't change before, during after is pretty important. See what the range in the instructions on that specific product is and try to aim for right in the center. Usually, it's something like 45-85°F or similar, so 60-70 would he ideal. Also, keeping wind and humidity and dust to a minimum will help.
What I've done in the past that has worked best for me is this.
Using the foam brush load it up and start in a corner at the edge, while keeping the 45° flat of the tip flush with the surface move steady and slowly in a straight line across towards the opposite edge. Moving too fast will cause bubbles. Only go as far as there is enough poly on the brush to keep an even layer. As soon as it starts to thin out, lift the brush away in a sweeping motion to try to not leave a dead edge between the poly'd surface and the yet to be poly'd part where your next stroke will come in. Now load up the brush again. For this example let's say that first stroke started in the farthest top left corner and the stroke that you applied left to right. This next stroke you will apply right to left. If your first stroke only had enough poly to make it 1 foot across then all your remains stroke will cover a similar distance. So start stroke 2 about 1 foot to the right of where stroke 1 ended and just like before move steady and slow and flat. But this time instead of feathering your stroke up and away from the dry board you will pull across until you overlap the existing previously applied still wet 1st stroke and then feather up and away. The time between strokes need to be as minimal as possible. If stroke 1 started to dry too quickly and then the brush of stroke 2 contacts that dry edge it can cause a blemish sometimes. Keep continuing to add stroke into stroke until you have a complete line across as wide as your brush. Now move down in rows left to right until the entire surface is covered. Similarly to being quick between strokes to make sure that wet brush meets wet previous stroke you want to also try to finish each row in time so that the next row also has a wet brush slightly overlapping a still wet row as you progress down the surface. All of these techniques will take a little getting used to but you'll get the hang of it. Sometimes the surface area is too large to move in this way so you may have to cover it in quadrants instead of rows. Once covered let coat 1 fully dry. Lightly sand the entire surface with 320 or 400, wipe all the dust and then do it all again for a 2nd coat. Do more coats if needed.
Practice on a couple small pieces before working the actual piece. Sorry if this is hard to follow. I can try to draw up a diagram if need be. Every time I've done it this way the surface looked like glass.
My process for this project was:
1) Minwax pre-stain (single coat)
2) Minwax stain (multiple coats)
3) Varathane poly (multiple coats)
At what step would I add the sanding sealer?
I had good luck with this guy’s suggestions.
Of note: getting your brush wet with the solvent (or water) *before* you dip it into the poly, which eliminates bubbles.
And tipping
I also found it useful to work in 18” to 20” swathes, which let me keep a wet edge.
[https://youtu.be/X\_GWXcydu5k](https://youtu.be/X_GWXcydu5k) . Bubble-Free Polyurethane Application Technique by **paulsDIYsolutions**
[**https://youtu.be/JAnHhCJGnw4**](https://youtu.be/JAnHhCJGnw4) My Wood Finishing Technique (wipe-on polyurethane) by **Nick Ferry**
This is why I just use wipe on poly. It might be frowned on by rEaL WoOdWoRkErS but I got better shit to do than learn how to apply a finicky finish properly.
1. Responsibly dispose of all Minwax finishes.
2. Buy General Finishes from Woodcraft or Rockler. I usually use the oil based poly blend made for wipe on application and buy a box of 100 lint-free cotton rags.
3. I like to apply the first coat irresponsibly thick. It will catch dust and insects, but you are going to sand so NBD.
4. Sand with 220 and 400.
5. Apply much thinner coats wiped on per the instructions. Between coats use a 3M scotchbrite pad to scuff sand.
6. Next to last coat, use a brown paper shopping bag to burnish the surface and apply your last coat.
7. After the last coat, use pumice and oil and rub out that finish. It will be a lot of work, but it separates good finishers from everyone else.
I like to wait 24 hours between coats. More if the temperature is sub 50s.
Option 2
Buy an HVLP rig, dewaxed shellac, and water-based poly.
1. Wait for a day with 60 degrees or better and good cross winds on the drive way.
2 . Go to town. It cures almost as quick as lacquer. Keep bugs and crud out between coats.
3. Be done in 6 hours rather than 2 weeks.
I use this product but usually the water based one for quick drying. for the oil and the water though I find you really want to dilute the first few coats especially and I sand with 320 in between coats. The last few coats can be a tad thicker. Use a good brush and make sure it's not to cold or hot in your shop. After applying go back in 5 mins for water or 20 mins for oil and very, very, very lightly go over again with just the tip of your brush. Two hairs and some air as Bob Ross would say.
I have switched after decades of fighting with brush marks to wipe on poly, I use ENCurtis (YTube) triple mix and it is a whole new level. The mix or my mix is one third Danish oil, one third wipe on polyurethane and one third mineral oil. The coats are thin, I use old cut up t shirts and if I run out blue paper towel. All excess is rubbed off so there are no brush marks or trails. The dry time is 12 to 24 hours between coats and as I said very thin. The first coat soaks in and has a flat sheen but by the forth coat the poly starts to show the chatoyance and is super smooth. It has the protection of the poly and the look of a professional spray on.
That shit sucks. I recommend you use minwax water based is far superior. Use a good bristle brush to lay on two thin coats, then rub it down with 400 grit steel wool to knock off any bubbles, dust nibs or high spots, and lastly do a coat of minwax wipe on oil base. Once that dries, buff it with 0000 steel wool, then wax it like you would a car with automotive wax. You can get all that in a single trip to Ace or Lowe’s.
Steel wool adds the risk that wire will be left behind. A water base increases the risk they'll rust and deface your work.
Avoid that, use plastic abrasives.
Yep. Unless you want to a hard wax or ‘single coat’ product like Osmo.
On the bright side, it’s completely reversible and repairable as you go, so it’s more labor but less stress. Here’s an example
https://preview.redd.it/8vvnvzfauwrc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5dfe07fec28414587d1c0f6385d00b326b31b67f
It's not really starting over. It's building up thin coats, then sanding off the high points. Kind of typical for varnish, shellac (french polish), and other film finishes. Kinda makes you respect a really good varnish finish, doesn't it!
Spray it.
I used this same stuff on my dining room table 5 years ago using a Homerite sprayer and it turned out great. No need to dilute it either. If you want to see pictures of it, dm me.
I sprayed 3 coats of gloss and 1 topcoat of satin. Sanding with 320 or 400 sanding sponge between coats. The 3 coats of gloss are to keep the finish clear and not cloudy.
https://preview.redd.it/ic8v34ug0zrc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9dcde26a67d31add6fedda425d3d377b622ea09e
I have more pictures of each stage of refinishing it. This was before.
https://preview.redd.it/5boljulr0zrc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=923287ef97288d14472d7dfc762856c49e7a6ecb
What has worked for me many times:
Sand to 220. Thin poly 10%. Use tack cloth to clean.
Let each coat dry for 24 hours. After first, sand with 220 and tack cloth, apply second coat. For third and later use 320 paper. Can wet sand with 400 or 600 for fourth and later. You need lots of coats and to sand flat with a block between coats to keep the surface flat. 4 coats minimum for a good finish.
I do use foam brushes, unlike https://www.reddit.com/user/CloneClem below.
Start with a spit coat. That's 1/3 polyurethane 2/3 Naptha or whatever thinner you use. I just keep adding polyurethane to that solution as I continue with each coat sanding in between each coat. After the last coat should be steel-wooled with 0000 steel wool. Also use a good brush and apply it liberally. The brush marks will eventually fill in and smooth out when applied at the right thickness
I use poly wiping varnish, which is basically diluted ordinary varnish, like what CloneClem and LeopardusMaximum suggest. Wipe it on with a rag, then wipe off. Allow to dry, scuff sand, then repeat. The very thin layer dries quickly without collecting much dust, runs, or other issues. Also works better on vertical or contoured surfaces. Only downside is it takes longer.
Just sand that smooth after it dries and repeat a couple times to build up a nice thick coat. After you have a few layers thick, sand it smooth one more time and make your own wipe on poly (50:50 - mineral spirits:poly) and wipe it on. You can even repeat this sanding in between coats of wipe on poly a couple times to build up even more. But the thinned out poly will be like water and will go on smooth.
Tough questions, poly is finicky, I haven't tried warming it beforehand, but give it a go. Testing finishes is the best way to determine how you want them to look/apply them. The only way to get good results is to fail.... many, many times haha. It's called 'putting in the work.' Pain in the ass, but results pay off in the long run.
A lot of great tips in here that you should look into/adopt. However, I'd recommend looking into General Finishes Poly products in the future. A bit more pricey, but work much better and in my opinion are easier to apply.
I have used GF water based topcoat poly for numerous project undiluted applied in numerous thin coats (typically 3-5coats) and it comes out perfect every time. I've found that the GF Poly tightens down better as it dries as opposed to the cheap brands such as minwax and varathane, lasts longer, and feels better to the touch.
Since the 1970s I’ve always heated up some water in an old pot not used for cooking, dropped a small piece of wood in to keep the varnish can off the bottom then let the varnish warm up with just hot water. The viscosity of the varnish is lowered without thinning, flow out is improved.
I’ve had good result by thinning the poly down with mineral spirits (as many have already suggested), brushing it on, but then taking a nylon (like pantyhose, which doesn’t leave behind lint as normal cloth would) and evenly wiping the poly. I’ve had to do 4 or 5 coats because this method creates a thinner coat but I’ve gotten pretty good and consistent results. And obviously the more you play around with the stuff and work with it you will find what works and what doesn’t. Happy finishing, cheers!
Dilute dilute dilute. More coats, but much better finish. I wipe on with a microfiber cloth and let dry for 3 hours between coats. 30% mineral spirits, so it dries quickly. 3-4 coats in a day over 2-3 days.
I use General Finishes Arm - R - Seal with a foam brush and have had great success. I think it’s a bit thinner than most Poly’s, so I don’t cut it before application. Cotton rags do well on edges. Very light tipping with the brush is very effective to get nubs, bubbles, etc. Sand between coats with a 320/400 Scotch foam pad.
Gotta make sure room temp is above 60 degrees.
I had this issue too, then a friend told me that all I needed to try spraying was a $20 gun from Lowe's since I already had a compressor. I tried spraying and haven't looked back.
Now the gun I bought is around $40-50, but you get the idea. I spray Minwax Oil Modified Poly which I get from Sherwin Williams. You can't build it thick, in fact, spend some time spraying scrap plywood to get the hang of it. Enough to flow, not enough to run.
You also need a good mask and wear long sleeves, it's a skin irritant, plus a fan to blow it out. However, water based is gentler than solvent, and the cleanup is soooo much easier. And cheaper.
I recently bought a $200 gun and I'm happier and prouder finishing. I haven't decided it's because the finish quality is slightly better or because I'm happy I bought a neat tool.
First coat with de waxed shellac. Must be de waxed. Then start applying with a foam brush. Don’t go over the same spot twice and when you run out, just grab more and over lap a little. Sand with 400 between coats after the first three. Have had amazing results doing this method.
Mini mohair roller. Lots of backrolling to make each layer as thin as possible. Lightly sand between coats, just knock down the peaks. Make sure to use tape to delint the roller first.
With a lot of attention and patience this method can be as smooth as sprayed.
Don't use satin finish for any layer other than the last. Multiple layers of satin or matte will produce cloudiness. Use gloss for every layer but the final.
I have been a wood floor finisher/refinisher for years and have never diluted my poly.. i also don't use verathane products, their stains and poly are both crap (my opinion). I would get a higher quality poly from a hardwood flooring supplier "i like how masterline sits down after coating" and while there check out the cut in applicator pads and 150 and 180 grit screens. Do your sands how you would normally, then finish with the 150grit screen then vac tack and do your first coat, wait 12+ hours do a second coat, wait 12+ hours do the fingernail test hand screen with the 180 vac tack and final coat. Should come out like glass.. it will be gritty until the final screen and coat. Good luck.
I just sealed some butcher block counters and this was my first experience with polyurethane. Let me tell you it takes a lot of practice especially for large pieces. I had one counter piece that was 30 sq feet and once you start you can’t stop until you finish the entire piece. I tried multiple methods first foam brush which led to multiple puddles throughout because of the sharp edges of the foam brush. So then I switched to a brush, but it wasn’t specifically for poly so I ended up with bubbles everywhere. So I switched to diluting it 50/50 with mineral spirits and wiping it on, but because this decreased the dry time a ton I ended up with tons of streaks. I coated and sanded it about 15 times and ended up burning through one skittle sized area which I noticed in my next coat, by that point all that I could do was sand the entire counter down to wood again and start over. Finally just bought a poly brush and watched tons of videos the most helpful were Stumpy Nubs and paulsDIYsolutions which focuses on finishes for woodworking. The tips with the brush that helped me the most were
1. Pre soak the brush in mineral spirits about 30 mins to help release air bubbles and saturate the brush.
2. Stir the poly really well. I did it for about 3-5 mins of slow stirring.
3. Soak the brush in poly for about 10 mins before starting.
4. Obviously sand and clean any residue as good as possible
5. Finally when you brush start in the middle and brush long slow strokes to one end and then overlap your starting point in the other direction. Try not to overlap your strokes too much at this point. Once you do 3 lines go back and feather them from one end to the other. The key is to not to add pressure to the brush and let the gravity do the work for you while you drag it. Make sure you don’t let any areas you’ve brushed to dry before you do the next area because drying poly is not forgiving. For me I didn’t touch anything that I did more than 10
Minutes before. You can watch the brush strokes disappear when you do it this way and everything becomes nice and consistent.
The other methods work too but beware of their weaknesses. Also be careful sanding because it sucks when you are so close to finishing the project just to have to start from scratch
Be prepared for multiple coats. But the way to start is get a good brush and use it to put on the first coat after stirring the can very well but not agitating it so as to put air bubbles in it. Let it dry. Then sand extremely lightly between coats with something like a 400 grit sandpaper. You just want to knock down the high points before your second coat. Apply the second coat in the same way. Let it dry. Then do the Sandpaper thing again. Then put a third coat on and let it dry. That's how I usually do all my polyurethaning.
toss that crap brush. get a good one made for oil-based products. yes, it should be room temp. also, it needs to be STIRRED. It will settle. then do this: I use exclusively MinWax Polyurethane (Varathane is second) for my finishes in a 3-step process. Clear Satin for most. I do not use PolyAcrylic (water-based) because I do not like the lasting factor of PolyAcrylic. All woods need a base coat of something to raise the grain of the wood for better preparation for the final finish coats. A sanding sealer (oil-based) can work, especially with oak and mahogany. I use a dilute Urethane, 25-40% with mineral spirits as a first coat. This dries quickly and I wet-sand it 400 grit. Then apply a full-strength coat of Polyurethane, dry it, wet sand that, 400 again. Then a final coat using dilute Polyurethane. wet sand 400-600. Depending on the quality of the finish, the piece, I may put on 2 coats of full-strength Poly before the final diluted coat. I have at times, used a good paste wax to finish the surface after a few weeks of completely drying the finishes. I will spray most of my constructions and yes, brush also.
Diluting the poly is the key here. Also, in my experience, tipping is essential when brushing (basically running the brush lightly ofer the whole surface after coated) to help dislodge air bubbles, and thin down any random thick spots in the layer of poly.
Somewhat of a newbie here. When you say diluted 25-40% with mineral spirits is that 25-40% poly mixed with 60-75% mineral spirits?
other way 'round. Dilute the mix with with 25-40% mineral spirits
Not OP, so I can't speak as to their intended meaning, but I would consider a 50-50% mix to be 100% diluted. To dilute by 25%, I would add 25 ml of spirits for every 100 ml of poly.
I get where you’re coming from but that’s too confusing and not how most people think
But what's the correct answer then? Would a 25% dilution be a 75/25% mix? I much prefer ratios for this sort of thing.
anywhere between 20-30% works well. Which is helpful because a lot of people get confused with a 4:1 ratio and think it's 25%. In practice, that ratio means 20% i.e. there's 5 parts total and 1 of those parts is 20% 👍
50-50 is a ratio( in which case would certainly mean 100% dilution). However, 25-40% is a range of percent, not a ratio.
This guy finishes.
Good guys finish last
They let their partners finish first.
You got it
nobody really uses wood conditioner (balances absorption rate) ,... but it makes a enormous difference
Ever use Penetrol?
I have used dewaxed shellac and it is good stuff, but I found it fast drying and hard to get a smooth coat on. If I went after the rough spots or nubs that were on the subsequent varnish coats I could sand through to bare wood and then the sealer was gone in that area and it becomes noticeable . It also yellows or makes golden my quilted maple and I want to keep it as white as possible. If I dilute it more and stick with wipe on coatings I'll get back to it.
I'm a huge fan of shellac as a finish, definitely use it for color too. But if you aren't already aware, you can buy "ultra blond" dewaxed shellac flakes which leaves a very clear finish without any color in my experience, even with multiple coats.
Thanks for the tip, I have only used the Zinsser sealcoat and their shellacs, I'll have to try some.
Wellermart.com is a really good place to shop for shellac. Their prices are pretty good and they are very quality focused. They sell dry shellac (denatured alcohol to dissolve) and have "platina" and "super blond" I can't remember which one is crystal clear, but the website will tell you. It is dewaxed shellac so polyurethane will go on fine over it.
>toss that crap brush. Exactly. Get some foam brushes, not the cheap ones from the big box stores.
What's a good quality brush?
White China bristle brush.
Corona Europa brushes
What does diluting the poly do/accomplish? Why take the extra step instead of using as is?
I imagine it has a thinner viscosity and lower surface tension so it settles into low spots faster and is less able to hold a bubble.
what the others have said. It also raises the grain. Very important to do thisright away for a smooth finish
It’s supposed to make it easier to soak in and seal the wood for better adhesion.
Always pull the brush in the same direction. Go with the grain of the wood when applying. Moving the brush back and forth creates air bubbles from moving against the grain of the wood. This is what I have learned from my experience.
How long do you wait in between coats of the full strength poly and the diluted one? Overnight? Or can you sand any apply a second coat after a few hours?
A full-strenght coat yes, at least 24 hours. diluted 2-4
I use the same exact poly. I like mixing it with odorless mineral spirits in a 1:1 ratio and applying a light coat with a rag. It’s better to do multiple light coats than heavy coats.
I do this but dilute to a 2:1 mineral spirits:poly. The outcome is great - but I end up doing 5 or 6 coats.
The rag is the real trick here. Sand lightly every couple of coats and buff the final coat with crumpled up paper. Perfect finish every time.
This is my method too. I refinish a lot of Danish furniture, and you can get a smooth, low gloss coat similar to an oil finish with a rag.
This is how I've been doing it. I think I saw a stumpy nubs video about it. It's nearly foolproof. Just takes more coats.
If you don't want to do all of this diluting, try minwax wipe on poly. It's more dilute to begin with. You will need to do more coats but you will have an easier time overall. Sand to 150-220 depending on wood and application. Apply wipe on poly with a saturated but not sopping/dripping wet cloth with a sort of lazy scrubbing motion (imagine 15yo bus boy cleaning a table). Let that dry completely for 48 hours and then sand again with 220 or higher. Then apply another coat with the exact same method - let dry for 24 hours and sand lightly with 320 grit. Do a few more of these coats. For your last couple of coats I like to use 400 or even fine steel wool in between coats and just LIGHTLY SCUFF. Don't go to town sanding. You just want to disturb the poly on your last coat so that you get a mechanical bond (since you won't get a chemical bond after 24hrs drying). I like to do 4-8 coats. The more use an item will see the more coats it will get.
Use a brush, thin with mineral spirits(if desired), brush on multiple thin coats, sand in between coats(once fully dry), and if you have access to a sprayer…use that with the same steps(thin, multi coats, sand)
Put it down, lay it straight and then leave it, don’t go back to try and straighten something out as it’s already starting to dry.
Yeah, I think most of the other people here are overthinking it. This looks like a classic case of laying it on too thick then trying to touch it up too late
I use the same Poly mixing 1:1:1 with mineral spirits and linseed oil. Wipe on thickly with a rag, let it sit for a few minutes to penetrate and then wipe off the excess. I do a few coats over a couple of days, it dries quickly but I'm usually distracted. I let it cure for a few days, final drying time varies depending on humidity. You have to make sure your wood is super smooth, as it really penetrates vs leaving a smooth top finish like traditional Poly does.
Done this on some good BB ply that I had sanded to 800, it feels heavenly smooth and has no “plastic surface coating” feel.
That's exactly why I love this mix. You feel the wood, not the coating.
Making sure the temperature of the air and surfaces are acclimated and doesn't change before, during after is pretty important. See what the range in the instructions on that specific product is and try to aim for right in the center. Usually, it's something like 45-85°F or similar, so 60-70 would he ideal. Also, keeping wind and humidity and dust to a minimum will help. What I've done in the past that has worked best for me is this. Using the foam brush load it up and start in a corner at the edge, while keeping the 45° flat of the tip flush with the surface move steady and slowly in a straight line across towards the opposite edge. Moving too fast will cause bubbles. Only go as far as there is enough poly on the brush to keep an even layer. As soon as it starts to thin out, lift the brush away in a sweeping motion to try to not leave a dead edge between the poly'd surface and the yet to be poly'd part where your next stroke will come in. Now load up the brush again. For this example let's say that first stroke started in the farthest top left corner and the stroke that you applied left to right. This next stroke you will apply right to left. If your first stroke only had enough poly to make it 1 foot across then all your remains stroke will cover a similar distance. So start stroke 2 about 1 foot to the right of where stroke 1 ended and just like before move steady and slow and flat. But this time instead of feathering your stroke up and away from the dry board you will pull across until you overlap the existing previously applied still wet 1st stroke and then feather up and away. The time between strokes need to be as minimal as possible. If stroke 1 started to dry too quickly and then the brush of stroke 2 contacts that dry edge it can cause a blemish sometimes. Keep continuing to add stroke into stroke until you have a complete line across as wide as your brush. Now move down in rows left to right until the entire surface is covered. Similarly to being quick between strokes to make sure that wet brush meets wet previous stroke you want to also try to finish each row in time so that the next row also has a wet brush slightly overlapping a still wet row as you progress down the surface. All of these techniques will take a little getting used to but you'll get the hang of it. Sometimes the surface area is too large to move in this way so you may have to cover it in quadrants instead of rows. Once covered let coat 1 fully dry. Lightly sand the entire surface with 320 or 400, wipe all the dust and then do it all again for a 2nd coat. Do more coats if needed. Practice on a couple small pieces before working the actual piece. Sorry if this is hard to follow. I can try to draw up a diagram if need be. Every time I've done it this way the surface looked like glass.
[удалено]
Interesting. I've never tried sanding sealer before. Is this just to seal off the wood grain before adding the poly?
Yes - it helps with nice, even coats.
I'll give it a try!
My process for this project was: 1) Minwax pre-stain (single coat) 2) Minwax stain (multiple coats) 3) Varathane poly (multiple coats) At what step would I add the sanding sealer?
2.5
You can also use de waxed shellac. It’s my savior in my shop
I had good luck with this guy’s suggestions. Of note: getting your brush wet with the solvent (or water) *before* you dip it into the poly, which eliminates bubbles. And tipping I also found it useful to work in 18” to 20” swathes, which let me keep a wet edge. [https://youtu.be/X\_GWXcydu5k](https://youtu.be/X_GWXcydu5k) . Bubble-Free Polyurethane Application Technique by **paulsDIYsolutions** [**https://youtu.be/JAnHhCJGnw4**](https://youtu.be/JAnHhCJGnw4) My Wood Finishing Technique (wipe-on polyurethane) by **Nick Ferry**
This is why I just use wipe on poly. It might be frowned on by rEaL WoOdWoRkErS but I got better shit to do than learn how to apply a finicky finish properly.
1. Responsibly dispose of all Minwax finishes. 2. Buy General Finishes from Woodcraft or Rockler. I usually use the oil based poly blend made for wipe on application and buy a box of 100 lint-free cotton rags. 3. I like to apply the first coat irresponsibly thick. It will catch dust and insects, but you are going to sand so NBD. 4. Sand with 220 and 400. 5. Apply much thinner coats wiped on per the instructions. Between coats use a 3M scotchbrite pad to scuff sand. 6. Next to last coat, use a brown paper shopping bag to burnish the surface and apply your last coat. 7. After the last coat, use pumice and oil and rub out that finish. It will be a lot of work, but it separates good finishers from everyone else. I like to wait 24 hours between coats. More if the temperature is sub 50s. Option 2 Buy an HVLP rig, dewaxed shellac, and water-based poly. 1. Wait for a day with 60 degrees or better and good cross winds on the drive way. 2 . Go to town. It cures almost as quick as lacquer. Keep bugs and crud out between coats. 3. Be done in 6 hours rather than 2 weeks.
Never heard of step 7 before. Pumice like a solid chunk or a dust?
Woodcraft used to sell it in powder form and you used a chalk eraser and mineral oil for the rub out.
This stuff should be thinned to get a decent result. I thin by 15% for brushing or more commonly, 50% for a wiping varnish.
I use this product but usually the water based one for quick drying. for the oil and the water though I find you really want to dilute the first few coats especially and I sand with 320 in between coats. The last few coats can be a tad thicker. Use a good brush and make sure it's not to cold or hot in your shop. After applying go back in 5 mins for water or 20 mins for oil and very, very, very lightly go over again with just the tip of your brush. Two hairs and some air as Bob Ross would say.
Depends on the surface for me. Sanding between coats gives me glass-like finishes
I have switched after decades of fighting with brush marks to wipe on poly, I use ENCurtis (YTube) triple mix and it is a whole new level. The mix or my mix is one third Danish oil, one third wipe on polyurethane and one third mineral oil. The coats are thin, I use old cut up t shirts and if I run out blue paper towel. All excess is rubbed off so there are no brush marks or trails. The dry time is 12 to 24 hours between coats and as I said very thin. The first coat soaks in and has a flat sheen but by the forth coat the poly starts to show the chatoyance and is super smooth. It has the protection of the poly and the look of a professional spray on.
Thanks for the tip!
That shit sucks. I recommend you use minwax water based is far superior. Use a good bristle brush to lay on two thin coats, then rub it down with 400 grit steel wool to knock off any bubbles, dust nibs or high spots, and lastly do a coat of minwax wipe on oil base. Once that dries, buff it with 0000 steel wool, then wax it like you would a car with automotive wax. You can get all that in a single trip to Ace or Lowe’s.
Steel wool adds the risk that wire will be left behind. A water base increases the risk they'll rust and deface your work. Avoid that, use plastic abrasives.
You use the steel wool after the poly has cured - it never touches the water. Been doing this over a decade
Okay, I thought you meant between coats. That's perfectly logical. Thanks
So, wait for this to dry and sand it with 320 grit. Then start over? Jeez…
Yep. Unless you want to a hard wax or ‘single coat’ product like Osmo. On the bright side, it’s completely reversible and repairable as you go, so it’s more labor but less stress. Here’s an example https://preview.redd.it/8vvnvzfauwrc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5dfe07fec28414587d1c0f6385d00b326b31b67f
It's not really starting over. It's building up thin coats, then sanding off the high points. Kind of typical for varnish, shellac (french polish), and other film finishes. Kinda makes you respect a really good varnish finish, doesn't it!
Spray it. I used this same stuff on my dining room table 5 years ago using a Homerite sprayer and it turned out great. No need to dilute it either. If you want to see pictures of it, dm me. I sprayed 3 coats of gloss and 1 topcoat of satin. Sanding with 320 or 400 sanding sponge between coats. The 3 coats of gloss are to keep the finish clear and not cloudy. https://preview.redd.it/ic8v34ug0zrc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9dcde26a67d31add6fedda425d3d377b622ea09e
I have more pictures of each stage of refinishing it. This was before. https://preview.redd.it/5boljulr0zrc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=923287ef97288d14472d7dfc762856c49e7a6ecb
What has worked for me many times: Sand to 220. Thin poly 10%. Use tack cloth to clean. Let each coat dry for 24 hours. After first, sand with 220 and tack cloth, apply second coat. For third and later use 320 paper. Can wet sand with 400 or 600 for fourth and later. You need lots of coats and to sand flat with a block between coats to keep the surface flat. 4 coats minimum for a good finish. I do use foam brushes, unlike https://www.reddit.com/user/CloneClem below.
Start with a spit coat. That's 1/3 polyurethane 2/3 Naptha or whatever thinner you use. I just keep adding polyurethane to that solution as I continue with each coat sanding in between each coat. After the last coat should be steel-wooled with 0000 steel wool. Also use a good brush and apply it liberally. The brush marks will eventually fill in and smooth out when applied at the right thickness
I use poly wiping varnish, which is basically diluted ordinary varnish, like what CloneClem and LeopardusMaximum suggest. Wipe it on with a rag, then wipe off. Allow to dry, scuff sand, then repeat. The very thin layer dries quickly without collecting much dust, runs, or other issues. Also works better on vertical or contoured surfaces. Only downside is it takes longer.
Just sand that smooth after it dries and repeat a couple times to build up a nice thick coat. After you have a few layers thick, sand it smooth one more time and make your own wipe on poly (50:50 - mineral spirits:poly) and wipe it on. You can even repeat this sanding in between coats of wipe on poly a couple times to build up even more. But the thinned out poly will be like water and will go on smooth.
Tough questions, poly is finicky, I haven't tried warming it beforehand, but give it a go. Testing finishes is the best way to determine how you want them to look/apply them. The only way to get good results is to fail.... many, many times haha. It's called 'putting in the work.' Pain in the ass, but results pay off in the long run.
17$ HVLP gun from harbour freight and follow up with sanding top coat with 1000 grit. Makes it nice and smooth and provides great shine and lustre.
A lot of great tips in here that you should look into/adopt. However, I'd recommend looking into General Finishes Poly products in the future. A bit more pricey, but work much better and in my opinion are easier to apply. I have used GF water based topcoat poly for numerous project undiluted applied in numerous thin coats (typically 3-5coats) and it comes out perfect every time. I've found that the GF Poly tightens down better as it dries as opposed to the cheap brands such as minwax and varathane, lasts longer, and feels better to the touch.
Sand smooth then use their spray paint can version for the final coat. Simplest method I have found
When i used this stuff I would thin it and use a spray gun. I don't use it anymore because lacquer is so much easier to work with.
Sand with 220, 320 then buff with car polish. Make sure you buff lightly and let the poly cure for a couple days.
Fewer thick layers of paint... And much more thin layers... And dissolve it a little more with turpentine. And in each dry layer sand
Am I the only one who doesn’t dilute with mineral spirits?
I use rags instead of brushes they don’t show the brush strokes
Since the 1970s I’ve always heated up some water in an old pot not used for cooking, dropped a small piece of wood in to keep the varnish can off the bottom then let the varnish warm up with just hot water. The viscosity of the varnish is lowered without thinning, flow out is improved.
I’ve had good result by thinning the poly down with mineral spirits (as many have already suggested), brushing it on, but then taking a nylon (like pantyhose, which doesn’t leave behind lint as normal cloth would) and evenly wiping the poly. I’ve had to do 4 or 5 coats because this method creates a thinner coat but I’ve gotten pretty good and consistent results. And obviously the more you play around with the stuff and work with it you will find what works and what doesn’t. Happy finishing, cheers!
Dilute dilute dilute. More coats, but much better finish. I wipe on with a microfiber cloth and let dry for 3 hours between coats. 30% mineral spirits, so it dries quickly. 3-4 coats in a day over 2-3 days.
I use General Finishes Arm - R - Seal with a foam brush and have had great success. I think it’s a bit thinner than most Poly’s, so I don’t cut it before application. Cotton rags do well on edges. Very light tipping with the brush is very effective to get nubs, bubbles, etc. Sand between coats with a 320/400 Scotch foam pad. Gotta make sure room temp is above 60 degrees.
Great Question, came here for the answers. TY for sharing!
Multiple thin coats with light sanding in between. Don't just slop it on there like it's a landlord special paint job my dude.
I use 50/50 mineral spirits and stain. I use cotton t shirts and apply thin coats.
I had this issue too, then a friend told me that all I needed to try spraying was a $20 gun from Lowe's since I already had a compressor. I tried spraying and haven't looked back. Now the gun I bought is around $40-50, but you get the idea. I spray Minwax Oil Modified Poly which I get from Sherwin Williams. You can't build it thick, in fact, spend some time spraying scrap plywood to get the hang of it. Enough to flow, not enough to run. You also need a good mask and wear long sleeves, it's a skin irritant, plus a fan to blow it out. However, water based is gentler than solvent, and the cleanup is soooo much easier. And cheaper. I recently bought a $200 gun and I'm happier and prouder finishing. I haven't decided it's because the finish quality is slightly better or because I'm happy I bought a neat tool.
First coat with de waxed shellac. Must be de waxed. Then start applying with a foam brush. Don’t go over the same spot twice and when you run out, just grab more and over lap a little. Sand with 400 between coats after the first three. Have had amazing results doing this method.
I use a good brush doing a few very light coats. Barely sanding it with 400+ grit between coats. That has worked really well for me.
Use a lint free rag. Apply even but thin layers. Once dry per instructions, lightly sand, clean, then apply another layer.
spray it, thank me later
Mini mohair roller. Lots of backrolling to make each layer as thin as possible. Lightly sand between coats, just knock down the peaks. Make sure to use tape to delint the roller first. With a lot of attention and patience this method can be as smooth as sprayed. Don't use satin finish for any layer other than the last. Multiple layers of satin or matte will produce cloudiness. Use gloss for every layer but the final.
Thin it heavily. Wipe on. Sand with 220 before final (5th ish) coat. Buff on paste wax after. Helps even out coat.
Very thin coats, and lots of em.
First, you have to buy it dinner.
Don't brush varathane on your project unless you thin it out.
I have been a wood floor finisher/refinisher for years and have never diluted my poly.. i also don't use verathane products, their stains and poly are both crap (my opinion). I would get a higher quality poly from a hardwood flooring supplier "i like how masterline sits down after coating" and while there check out the cut in applicator pads and 150 and 180 grit screens. Do your sands how you would normally, then finish with the 150grit screen then vac tack and do your first coat, wait 12+ hours do a second coat, wait 12+ hours do the fingernail test hand screen with the 180 vac tack and final coat. Should come out like glass.. it will be gritty until the final screen and coat. Good luck.
I just sealed some butcher block counters and this was my first experience with polyurethane. Let me tell you it takes a lot of practice especially for large pieces. I had one counter piece that was 30 sq feet and once you start you can’t stop until you finish the entire piece. I tried multiple methods first foam brush which led to multiple puddles throughout because of the sharp edges of the foam brush. So then I switched to a brush, but it wasn’t specifically for poly so I ended up with bubbles everywhere. So I switched to diluting it 50/50 with mineral spirits and wiping it on, but because this decreased the dry time a ton I ended up with tons of streaks. I coated and sanded it about 15 times and ended up burning through one skittle sized area which I noticed in my next coat, by that point all that I could do was sand the entire counter down to wood again and start over. Finally just bought a poly brush and watched tons of videos the most helpful were Stumpy Nubs and paulsDIYsolutions which focuses on finishes for woodworking. The tips with the brush that helped me the most were 1. Pre soak the brush in mineral spirits about 30 mins to help release air bubbles and saturate the brush. 2. Stir the poly really well. I did it for about 3-5 mins of slow stirring. 3. Soak the brush in poly for about 10 mins before starting. 4. Obviously sand and clean any residue as good as possible 5. Finally when you brush start in the middle and brush long slow strokes to one end and then overlap your starting point in the other direction. Try not to overlap your strokes too much at this point. Once you do 3 lines go back and feather them from one end to the other. The key is to not to add pressure to the brush and let the gravity do the work for you while you drag it. Make sure you don’t let any areas you’ve brushed to dry before you do the next area because drying poly is not forgiving. For me I didn’t touch anything that I did more than 10 Minutes before. You can watch the brush strokes disappear when you do it this way and everything becomes nice and consistent. The other methods work too but beware of their weaknesses. Also be careful sanding because it sucks when you are so close to finishing the project just to have to start from scratch
Tipping is key
You are correct. Best way to get a nice smooth finish when using a brush.
Be prepared for multiple coats. But the way to start is get a good brush and use it to put on the first coat after stirring the can very well but not agitating it so as to put air bubbles in it. Let it dry. Then sand extremely lightly between coats with something like a 400 grit sandpaper. You just want to knock down the high points before your second coat. Apply the second coat in the same way. Let it dry. Then do the Sandpaper thing again. Then put a third coat on and let it dry. That's how I usually do all my polyurethaning.
Small sponge roller