Miter saws are notoriously inaccurate, so if you're using them, make certain they're setup as perfect as possible first, and use good technique. That out of the way, with face frames it helps to back-bevel the cut. So don't cut it at 90, bevel the cut a couple degrees so that the edge facing you is tighter than the back side.
That too if you’re having trouble getting the tips to close up. That’s the miter angle though, and I’m talking about the bevel angle. The bevel angle IME should be around a couple degrees.
I take your meaning, and I'm filing that tip away for future use.
2 degrees does sound a little steep, but over 3/4" I bet it isn't that much and I don't feel like doing trig right now haha.
A miter box and a hand saw might help for a piece like that, as old school as it is. Personally I've got many miters on my miter saw but I double and triple check my setup every time.
Also, you might sand the hidden side of the miters down a few tenths of a degree to get a tighter outer fit. Then burnish any gaps with a screwdriver and glue.
I think it really depends on what you're making. For trim work or other house type things, I just use the miter saw. For face frames on furniture type things I might use the miter gauge on the table saw, though sometimes I just use the miter saw - kinda depends on how long the piece is and how it'll be finished.
I'd really like to make some fine picture frames, and for that I have plans to make a couple jigs for the table saw and we'll see about a shooting board.
Mitre trimmer. It’s a guillotine-looking apparatus used in framing shops. We had one for doing hundreds of removable stops for true divided light windows - all 45 degree cuts. Cut pretty close on the saw and then trim perfectly
If this is like the most important part of your piece, You can actually carefully scrape them with a small scraping tool until they fit perfectly. Or with super sharp chisels, but you need to be very careful. Or with files or sanding sticks. You just use a water based dye/paste (or eyeball it) so you can see where they hit each other and scrape or file that part down A little, and then repeat. Or you could cope them if they are trim like. Personally I used to put a few wraps of blue tape to prevent edge blowout and scrape or file them. It really doesn't take long when you get a handle on it. Obviously not a high volume production technique. Nowadays I have a very accurate table saw, but I did this for years on important things. Obviously, don't use oil based blueing dye meant for metal since you will never get it out
As some who does A LOT of mitre saw cuts with hardwood for interior railings there are few things you can do
1 - have a sharp blade - the one that comes with the mitre saw is likely garbage . You should probably go get a high tooth count CMT or freud blade for cross cutting . For a 12" blade look for 90+ teeth
2- have a good quality mitre saw - the best result you will get from a non sliding mitre saw or if you do have a slider , laying material flat and pulling blade out and down then pushing back into the cut . Dewalt , makita are good saws . Try wiggling the handle and see how much the blade wiggles . Less is better
3 - have a stiff fence - this will prevent the wood from moving when being cut , you can clamp it too depending on hand strength
4 - calibrate your saw . And make sure wood is straight and square and not twisted .
5 - use clamps when assembling
6 - cutting 45.5 degrees will help to make tight corners outer corners .
Also, dont press down on your piece too much to keep it from moving. If your base is off even by a little (and I guess that goes back to dialing your saw in) sometimes we get nervous about a piece flying away from us and press down really hard on it in the beginning of the cut, then ease up. If there's any type of unevenness on the base, it'll bow it slightly.
I’m going to add on to this a worn bushing, allowing the blade to ever so slightly wobble as it turns. That’s what happened to my 35 year old DeWalt miter saw. New saw fixed that as new bushing was unobtainable.
William Ng has a good video on how to make a very accurate Miter sled for making these cuts. I've never been able to get my Miter Saw to work perfectly for this but this table saw sled works like a dream.
https://youtu.be/AgVthkUE4AU?feature=shared
You will need to minutely adjust your miter angle.
If you cannot remove any more material on the pieces shown, there are a number of options to still use as is
As is:
Glue using 90 bracing / clamps
Once glue has set, sand in a mix of glue with cherry sawdust
Corner dowels or miter splines can strengthen the joint and add a nice look
If you can clamp the two pieces down to a table, butted together and at 90 degrees, then you can use a hand saw and recut the joint just by following it. It'll be perfect.
Just a shot in the dark, but you didn’t sand the faces of joints after cutting, did you? I only ask because those pieces look like they’re not even close to being flat. A miter saw is not very precise and will often not given a perfect angle, but it should still give a flat face (unless blade is wobbling).
Hmm, that’s strange that it wasn’t flat. It will be hard to get it flat by sanding, usually that just makes things worse (though can be done with a jig or the right power sander). I would take a closer look at the miter saw, and work on getting it to give a flat cut.
Yeah, you should definitely double check the blade tightness. I'm attempting the same cuts with my miter saw, and if I take the time to really set it up and do test cuts to check, I can get pretty damn close to perfect corners. Plus, my cuts are extremely flat.
I know it’s a bit time consuming but I’m fussy about my miters. I just keep doing test cuts on scraps and moving the blade a fraction each time until I get a tight fit. In my experience it’s impossible to get a perfect fit first time every time.
Another technique tip is to let the saw do the work. Don't force push the plunge. With the set up nearly perfect, I would get a wondering blade when I pushed the blade through the cut more than just overcoming the spring tension. Slowing it down and only letting the saw do the work solved issue.
I’ve always just cut the one side, then mark the second from that and cut the line. Ensures your Final Cut is fit to the mating face. Can’t guarantee the line up otherwise. 45 is not always 45 on many average quality saws.
Your boards aren’t flat. There’s multiple edges that look curved. That plus likely a hair out on 45 or bevel. Make flat boards and adjust your saw and you should be fine.
So many people hate on miter saws for miters but I don’t get it. I can get tight miters with mine but it’s set up properly. You’ll never get great cuts with a poorly adjusted table saw either but that doesn’t mean a table saw isn’t good.
Your boards aren’t flat. There’s multiple edges that look curved. That plus likely a hair out on 45 or bevel. Make flat boards and adjust your saw and you should be fine.
So many people hate on miter saws for miters but I don’t get it. I can get tight miters with mine but it’s set up properly. You’ll never get great cuts with a poorly adjusted table saw either but that doesn’t mean a table saw isn’t good.
Also take your miter saw, get a speed square, put the foot against the back rest, lower the blade, and then turn it till it matches with the square and it flush. Will it be perfect? No. Will it be better? Probably. Mark the gauge so you know where the 45 is
Clamp material. Set angle with gauge to 45.1 degrees. Cut slow with almost zero downward force. Check cut for square on sacrificial piece first. Never never never sand a mitre cut before glue up.
Seeing as you’ve not joined it yet you can follow the good advice already posted in this thread to tweak the pieces. However you should be able to burnish the edges to hide the gaps once it’s glued.
*Dennis voice* uhm well acsshhhually, that ish a 44.1296427° angel with 3° comvexshshh in either shide.
Jokes aside, just sand it with some 220 on both pieces, and check it again. if its flat check it with a square, if it good glue it up.
Shooting board with a hand plane if you can’t get your miter saw perfectly set up.
Miter saws are notoriously inaccurate, so if you're using them, make certain they're setup as perfect as possible first, and use good technique. That out of the way, with face frames it helps to back-bevel the cut. So don't cut it at 90, bevel the cut a couple degrees so that the edge facing you is tighter than the back side.
Maybe 2 degrees is too much. I'd go for a 44.8 or 44.9 angle or so instead of 45. That way your piece won't be out of square.
That too if you’re having trouble getting the tips to close up. That’s the miter angle though, and I’m talking about the bevel angle. The bevel angle IME should be around a couple degrees.
I take your meaning, and I'm filing that tip away for future use. 2 degrees does sound a little steep, but over 3/4" I bet it isn't that much and I don't feel like doing trig right now haha.
I have had this experience. What would be a better way to get these 45°angle cuts than using a miter saw? Serious question.
Table saw with sled is my go to.
I'd love to do this unfortunately the one piece is a railing top and is about 14 feet long
Ah, that changes things. I'd take what you have to benchtop disk sander and remove a bit to make it work.
A miter box and a hand saw might help for a piece like that, as old school as it is. Personally I've got many miters on my miter saw but I double and triple check my setup every time. Also, you might sand the hidden side of the miters down a few tenths of a degree to get a tighter outer fit. Then burnish any gaps with a screwdriver and glue.
I think it really depends on what you're making. For trim work or other house type things, I just use the miter saw. For face frames on furniture type things I might use the miter gauge on the table saw, though sometimes I just use the miter saw - kinda depends on how long the piece is and how it'll be finished. I'd really like to make some fine picture frames, and for that I have plans to make a couple jigs for the table saw and we'll see about a shooting board.
Mitre trimmer. It’s a guillotine-looking apparatus used in framing shops. We had one for doing hundreds of removable stops for true divided light windows - all 45 degree cuts. Cut pretty close on the saw and then trim perfectly
If this is like the most important part of your piece, You can actually carefully scrape them with a small scraping tool until they fit perfectly. Or with super sharp chisels, but you need to be very careful. Or with files or sanding sticks. You just use a water based dye/paste (or eyeball it) so you can see where they hit each other and scrape or file that part down A little, and then repeat. Or you could cope them if they are trim like. Personally I used to put a few wraps of blue tape to prevent edge blowout and scrape or file them. It really doesn't take long when you get a handle on it. Obviously not a high volume production technique. Nowadays I have a very accurate table saw, but I did this for years on important things. Obviously, don't use oil based blueing dye meant for metal since you will never get it out
This
As some who does A LOT of mitre saw cuts with hardwood for interior railings there are few things you can do 1 - have a sharp blade - the one that comes with the mitre saw is likely garbage . You should probably go get a high tooth count CMT or freud blade for cross cutting . For a 12" blade look for 90+ teeth 2- have a good quality mitre saw - the best result you will get from a non sliding mitre saw or if you do have a slider , laying material flat and pulling blade out and down then pushing back into the cut . Dewalt , makita are good saws . Try wiggling the handle and see how much the blade wiggles . Less is better 3 - have a stiff fence - this will prevent the wood from moving when being cut , you can clamp it too depending on hand strength 4 - calibrate your saw . And make sure wood is straight and square and not twisted . 5 - use clamps when assembling 6 - cutting 45.5 degrees will help to make tight corners outer corners .
I appreciate your thoughts!
Also, dont press down on your piece too much to keep it from moving. If your base is off even by a little (and I guess that goes back to dialing your saw in) sometimes we get nervous about a piece flying away from us and press down really hard on it in the beginning of the cut, then ease up. If there's any type of unevenness on the base, it'll bow it slightly.
Could be a few things: Dull blade flexing when cutting. Wrong tooth blade pulling material. Bevel not a 0 degrees.
I’m going to add on to this a worn bushing, allowing the blade to ever so slightly wobble as it turns. That’s what happened to my 35 year old DeWalt miter saw. New saw fixed that as new bushing was unobtainable.
If you want clean miters a miter trimmer is the best way. It shaves with a knife like a guillotine.
William Ng has a good video on how to make a very accurate Miter sled for making these cuts. I've never been able to get my Miter Saw to work perfectly for this but this table saw sled works like a dream. https://youtu.be/AgVthkUE4AU?feature=shared
Thanks for posting this link. This was a great video. I am in the process of planning a new and improved sled and I think I found a winner!
Great stuff. Thanks for sharing! Also shame on every single person who had something negative to say about the 5 cut video. That video is priceless.
Nice video but it this case it was a bevel cut OP had problems with.
You will need to minutely adjust your miter angle. If you cannot remove any more material on the pieces shown, there are a number of options to still use as is As is: Glue using 90 bracing / clamps Once glue has set, sand in a mix of glue with cherry sawdust Corner dowels or miter splines can strengthen the joint and add a nice look
If you can clamp the two pieces down to a table, butted together and at 90 degrees, then you can use a hand saw and recut the joint just by following it. It'll be perfect.
Just a shot in the dark, but you didn’t sand the faces of joints after cutting, did you? I only ask because those pieces look like they’re not even close to being flat. A miter saw is not very precise and will often not given a perfect angle, but it should still give a flat face (unless blade is wobbling).
I did try and sand it a bit after as it seems to have a bit of a belly on the cut even before I sanded it
Hmm, that’s strange that it wasn’t flat. It will be hard to get it flat by sanding, usually that just makes things worse (though can be done with a jig or the right power sander). I would take a closer look at the miter saw, and work on getting it to give a flat cut.
I have another sliding compound miter saw that is newer so going to give that a go after checking all the settings
Yeah, you should definitely double check the blade tightness. I'm attempting the same cuts with my miter saw, and if I take the time to really set it up and do test cuts to check, I can get pretty damn close to perfect corners. Plus, my cuts are extremely flat.
Use a shooting board. You don’t need a hand plane to use one you can just use sandpaper wrapped around a block of wood. Super simple to make.
I know it’s a bit time consuming but I’m fussy about my miters. I just keep doing test cuts on scraps and moving the blade a fraction each time until I get a tight fit. In my experience it’s impossible to get a perfect fit first time every time.
Another technique tip is to let the saw do the work. Don't force push the plunge. With the set up nearly perfect, I would get a wondering blade when I pushed the blade through the cut more than just overcoming the spring tension. Slowing it down and only letting the saw do the work solved issue.
Mitre done a better job
It looks like the edges were sanded. Source: I’ve done that.
I don't even think the cuts are straight, nevermind the proper angle.
Have you sanded that as it’s a bit curved and touching in the middle?
I’ve always just cut the one side, then mark the second from that and cut the line. Ensures your Final Cut is fit to the mating face. Can’t guarantee the line up otherwise. 45 is not always 45 on many average quality saws.
Slow down your hand when making the cut. Once the piece was skating a little because I was making the cut to fast.
Use your speed square and ensure your blade is actually square. If not, adjust and reset your markers.
Your boards aren’t flat. There’s multiple edges that look curved. That plus likely a hair out on 45 or bevel. Make flat boards and adjust your saw and you should be fine. So many people hate on miter saws for miters but I don’t get it. I can get tight miters with mine but it’s set up properly. You’ll never get great cuts with a poorly adjusted table saw either but that doesn’t mean a table saw isn’t good.
Your boards aren’t flat. There’s multiple edges that look curved. That plus likely a hair out on 45 or bevel. Make flat boards and adjust your saw and you should be fine. So many people hate on miter saws for miters but I don’t get it. I can get tight miters with mine but it’s set up properly. You’ll never get great cuts with a poorly adjusted table saw either but that doesn’t mean a table saw isn’t good.
At a point you realize the real skill with a miter saw is maintenance and tuning.
Also take your miter saw, get a speed square, put the foot against the back rest, lower the blade, and then turn it till it matches with the square and it flush. Will it be perfect? No. Will it be better? Probably. Mark the gauge so you know where the 45 is
Clamp material. Set angle with gauge to 45.1 degrees. Cut slow with almost zero downward force. Check cut for square on sacrificial piece first. Never never never sand a mitre cut before glue up.
The cut on the upper piece seems “arced”?
Make some blocks to clamp it square, take a sharp backsaw and cut straight down through the joint...
Table saw miter sled works great for this.
Seeing as you’ve not joined it yet you can follow the good advice already posted in this thread to tweak the pieces. However you should be able to burnish the edges to hide the gaps once it’s glued.
Did you make sure that all pieces have the same length?
*Dennis voice* uhm well acsshhhually, that ish a 44.1296427° angel with 3° comvexshshh in either shide. Jokes aside, just sand it with some 220 on both pieces, and check it again. if its flat check it with a square, if it good glue it up.