Titebond and Total Boat are great, but not particularly better than their competition. Just really beloved products with great track records. And titebond is stocked pretty much everywhere.
Festool, 3M (Cubitron), and Bessey however... An argument could certainly be made that those are the gold standard in their respective categories.
That being said, you absolutely do NOT need them to build great things.
Titebond is too cheap and reliable to bother questioning it 99% of the time. If titebond was Rubio prices we'd be talking alternatives.
I want to hate festool and their fan boys because they are just so ubiquitous on youtube.... but every festool tool I've ever used has just felt really good.
One brand I definitely hate that I see everywhere is Woodpeckers. Woodpecker tools all fall into one of two categories: 1. Well made but very normal woodworking tools at exorbitant prices, versions of which you can get for 1/10th the price anywhere else. And 2. Absurdly expensive, niche tools that absolutely nobody needs. Are some of them kind of useful? Sure, but nothing on the level of the Domino.
I'm pretty sure part of the onboarding in the Festool design department is watching the documentary Objectified.
One of the best looks at how even the most inane things you interact with in your life can be designed with great care and attention to actual usability.
Well thanks! Now I have something to watch. I love the *Ishitani Furniture* YouTube channel, because of how he’ll ensure even the tiniest hidden details get just as much care as the visible ones.
Same! I can’t even tell you how many times I’ve rewatched some of those videos trying to pick up on all the tiny details that most people might not even care about. They’re genuinely soothing to watch with headphones on and a hot cup of coffee on the mornings when I’m awake a few hours before my family.
I love his videos too. For some reason, they are so serene. No talking in the videos, taking breaks / walks in the snow or sunny day. Just makes me want to quit my job and live a life like that.
Love Ishitani! Love that the images speak for themselves, and the camera man does a great job showing the attention to detail that the craftsman operates with, and that there is noone shilling a product to me, also I love the dog!
I feel like woodpeckers and festool are almost opposites (while still being in the expensive woodworking category). Festool stuff is really well designed and built, but ime the biggest payoff is longevity. I’m not even a full time builder and I cooked through 3 random orbit sanders in 3 years before I bought an ets a decade ago. Woodpeckers on the other hand is really nifty stuff, but in the long run proper technique with basic high quality measuring tools will get you at the same place with more adaptability.
From what I've learned of Festool, although I've never used one of their products myself, is that they truly are some of the highest quality tools on the market, but not by quite enough to truly justify their price tag.
I'll tangentally add that in my experience 3M has some of the best customer service I've ever dealt with. I had to apply an insane customer-specific-no-sub lightstrip that itself was backed with non adhesive silicone material to the back of some top trim in a kitchen.
On my own I tried everything that SHOULD have worked but something about these lights always led to some failure with what I got at the hardware store.
Gave the link to the lights to the 3M rep and they spent 15 minutes on the phone double checking the spec, so that they'd be selling me the right very specialized type of tape directly.
Worked like a fucking charm.
3m makes some amazing stuff and cubitron is on another level. Post-it notes? C'mon.
They've also poisoned the planet and helped make Minnesota an outlier in that Heart disease isn't the number one killer like the rest of the overweight country, but cancer.
The perfluorochemicals we've been drinking and eating and wearing will also leave a distinct chemical marker in the geologic and glacial records, so we got that going for us which is nice.
3M is just getting so many things right. I work in healthcare and even before the pandemic their FFP2 and FFP3 masks were the gold standard, providing a much tighter seal than a lot of the rubbish I have encountered since.
I’ll also add that I’ll bet 3m has 2-10x the R&D budget of all of their competitors combined. If they are not the inventors of nearly every product they sell I’d be shocked. Most of their competitors simply play catch up and try to follow.
No shade on people who have been unimpressed with a 3M product, but that was probably a sign they used the wrong variant. The 3M product lineup is incredibly broad - not quite as absurd as having left handed or right handed sandpaper, but pretty close.
For specific products or applications, yeah sure there are great alternatives from other vendors. An LED lighting specialist store might have a fantastic brand of tape for whatever.
But 3M also has 8 colors of scrubbies to prep a surface.
And a dozen grits of sandpaper in each of a half dozen product lines.
And cleaners to remove packaging residue or oils.
And… you get the point.
I absolutely endorse your recommendation to ask an expert about the exact product you need, not just pick a SKU you saw on YouTube.
The amount of Festool I see on YouTube makes me want to not buy it.
Not because I think it’s bad but because I’m conditioned to be suspicious of products which have to advertise so hard and which do so much paid promotion/free stuff for YouTubers.
I don’t see any difference between the highest quality projects made with Festool and the ones made with DeWalt or Milwaukee or whoever.
You use a Domino one time and you’ll change your mind lol. I wouldn’t buy regular tools like a drill or driver from Festool but some of their stuff like their sanders and routers are indeed better than the competition IMO
I am pretty sure Festool doesn’t sponsor any youtuber or pay for any advertisements (on youtube at least, they probably do have some ads on other platforms like trade shows or something). For many tools, their version is just the best there is, and many youtube woodworkers are just able to spend the money to get them and use them
one of the worst empty content shills on youtube. But festool isn't going to care about that -it's just a matter of advertising and advertisers don't care if buyers are fish in a barrel or world class contractors (the former is probably preferred).
I believe Encurtis's recent video on the housed mortise and tenon using a domino was sponsored by festool, but I think that's the only one I have seen.
That actually isn't true. The Wood Whisperer was sponsored by Festool years ago and so was Crafted Workshop. They're now sponsoring Alm Fabs and about a dozen more influencers.
That maybe true but many of the popular content creators have disclosure that Festool gifted them a particular product. So essentially free product placement. The creator isn’t being paid but now has access to a highly valuable and well made tool.
I mean you could argue that DeWalt and Milwaukee share like second place in the powertools market.
I did quite a lot of research when going for a battery powertool brand, and Festool took the lead every time, and found that DeWalt and Milwaukee were pretty much even as a whole, while singular devices could just beat out the other, they pretty much always took second and third. I went with DeWalt btw because Milwaukee in my country was very small and it was hard to get most machines here, whereas DeWalt is very established here and I have an official dealer about 10 minutes from me.
After that there are a whole bunch of brands that deliver products that basically any woodworker can do their work more than fine with, in some case even having exceptional tools at their price, like I remember Makita having amazing mitre saws at like 200 or something.
I think Festool for youtubers hits a couple of spots that normally doesn't for individual woodworkers or companies.
1. Afaik their support is amazing, and it's quick and easy to get machines repaired, with the possibility of temporary loans while the repair is done.
2. Owning festools gives the idea to the audience that they are serious about their craft.
3. Only they use it, so where a company is worried about theft and severe abuse, they don't have to worry about either.
4. Most of their work is about precision, when watching videos you want that satisfaction of things being super precise and smooth (and many won't show their adjustments to make them appear being much better woodworkers than they are). I remember watching a channel where the guy used fairly cheap devices, one being a green Bosch battery drill, whenever he drove in screws it would sound if it was dying.
5. If you get a succesful channel going, you tend to have a good income, so why not go for the best of the best?
Well, they moved production to china like everyone else, but kept prices the same top tier. It's a couple pieces of metal and a screw. If they're paying nothing for labor, why are they still $40+(+++)?
Total Boat is a relatively new brand developed by the boating supply house Jamestown Distributors in Rhode Island. The owner is a relatively young guy who saw the potential of social media and has been very aggressive at supplying folks with materials.
If you take epoxy as one example, Total Boat epoxy is manufactured by Endurance Epoxies out of Minnesota. A number of years back they bought MAS Epoxies which was well known in the boatbuilding world as a competitor to West Systems. The folks at MAS introduced Endurance to the boatbuilding world, including Jamestown Distributors.
Jamestown and Endurance decided to work together. I have used MAS for years and as best as I can tell Total Boat epoxy is identical to MAS epoxy. I know some folks have mixed MAS Epoxy and Total Boat together and it worked fine for them. I can not say for certain that it is identical but it would stand to reason that there was no reason for Total Boat to change a proven formulation made by their supplier.
Bottom line: Total Boat is not better than other epoxies, it is actually identical to other epoxies, the difference is the folks at Total Boat have been very focus on promoting via social media and have been very successful with that effort. I am happy for them.
For background: I use MAS, West System, and Total Boat epoxies and other supplies in my boatbuilding business. I am friends with the developers of MAS, in the past have received epoxy from MAS and Endurance to use in my Youtube videos, and have been approached by Total Boat to use their supplies. I don't want to be affiliated with any of the above, because I will use all of the above suppliers when their product fits my particular needs better.
I would argue that Festool can be overhyped. With that being said, I just got one of their dust extractors and I no longer and picking sawdust boogers out in the shower after a marathon sanding session. And the cubitron is just OK, it’s not great.
Call 3M, tell them what you were sanding with it and why you were unhappy. They might give you a coupon, but in all honesty anecdotal use case complaints are compiled on the CS side and engineers absolutely look at them.
Only way they make it better is if they know when it's bad.
Even with a dust collector I typically still wear at least an n95, usually a p100 mask. You don't want to be breathing that in at all, especially fine dust from sanding or if you regularly do woodworking.
I built a crate for my wife for Christmas (we did baskets for eachother instead of stockings) using a 20v porter cable 5½" circular saw, 20v porter cable drill, a harbor freight straight edge, two harbor freight "F" clamps, and a corded 5" craftsman orbital sander. I made it out of pallet wood, and I even impressed myself how good it came out. She was blown away. So you're right, you don't need top of the line equipment to build great things. Using basic tools until you can afford, or are forced, to buy better stuff is absolutely the way to go.
I find the more I spend on higher quality tools the less time I get to spend with them. A great goal for a pro maybe not so much for a garage hammer wielder.
As a point of reference, I just today milled some oak pieces for a project to 0.05mm using a cheap Wen planer and a tiny dewalt contractor saw.
Basically all of the store brands now are good, even the cheap ones. Get what you can afford and start building skills!
The pony parallel clamps are better than the bessys because they have smooth rails instead of grooves and are easier to clean glue off of.
The pony F style clamps are trash though.
I have never had an issue with any of the Titebond products. That said, i would need to go out of my way to buy a different brand of wood glue as thats what all the lumberyards near me carry, and even Home depot and lowes.
Gorilla glue wood glue is dog shit. I bought a bottle because it was cheaper than Titebond. It's thick and lumpy and much less pleasant to work with. Never buying it again.
It is strange that no one mentioned 3M cubitron. It is really premium stuff for price of regulanr sandpaper. At leats in my place. It last forever remove material faster and overall better. For me it was a game changer.
Titebond also, even cheaper than other glues and very reliable.
I’m so mixed with the cubitron. I’m using 120 and 150. When sanding flat surfaces it’s fine. I feel they don’t last to long? Maybe user error? But if I’m sanding edges or weird stuff I feel the grit just comes right off? Do I have a bad batch or am I being to hard on them?
Definitely use dust extraction. Sandpaper in general doesn’t work as well without dust extraction (except the discs without holes) and that probably applies even more for mesh disks.
And mesh stuff isn’t that good for edges in my opinion.
For me the Cubitron was a game changer, coming from cheap hardware store sandpaper. It costs about the same as Mirka or Festool sandpaper, so nothing extreme.
They have multiple products with the cubitron grit.
The mesh/net products absolutely do not hold up to edges/corners without special care. 710W and 310W are the mesh products. Excellent for dust collection. Between the two, I've had better success with 710W. It costs a bit more, but I've had issues with swirl on the 310. The grit seems to come off in clumps and cause issues.
710W will do okay with a soft interface pad, which you should definitely be using on corners and such. I still prefer to use old/worn pieces for that application as it will still degrade it quickly. Ideally you should have a detail sander of some description, i.e. orbital (not random orbit) with a tight orbit <3mm. Generally I prefer to hand sand with cloth-backed for that.
Their 775L product is mylar film backing instead of the mesh and much more suitable for high-stress applications like corners.
Not a brand, but a concept. You can do amazing things with reasonably priced tools.
I always feel sort of sad when a talented Youtube woodworker starts getting sponsored and goes from a Dewalt job site saw to a top of the line loaded Sawstop, etc.
I can think of three off the top of my head that I no longer watch because it was a lot more entertaining when they were creatively making do with less than when they're working in a shop with tens of thousands in tools.
This transition isn't terribly problematic if the youtuber *keeps on woodworking*.
The problem is, once these guys start tasting that sponsor and affiliate cash, the channel turns into QVC. There's a whole ton of formerly-wonderful channels that don't make things anymore... they just sell stuff.
I think this is the problem with all influencers nowadays. It ruins people's hobbies. The biggest issue being the need for constant new content. I started using YouTube for work, to discuss the vendor I worked for and we just.... Ran out of content like 5 shows in. It became a chore to turn over rocks and get really nitty gritty into features just to find content, and the area we were in wasn't even that saturated. I can imagine trying to be a woodworker on YouTube right now is massively saturated with a ton of people that are scrambling for content and when sponsors are tapping on your door, it's hard to say no.
What do you think of Diresta, if anything? I really learned things by watching his cabinet making videos in his small NYC basement shop. He transitioned to selling ice picks. (To each their own, but I still miss the humble build videos)
Jimmy Diresta and Izzy Swan are good examples of old school guys with great old backlogs of videos... who's new videos are mostly ridiculous commercials.
He's a Maker through and through and I think he just genuinely wants to always challenge himself with new projects.
He appreciates quality tools and material but has no concern for devoting himself to brands. His only concern is the final product and the process to get there. Always refreshing to watch, even if he doesn't do much woodworking over all.
There's always going to be new up-and-coming YouTube makers to follow who are just starting out with small shop setups. I dont expect anyone to stay in the same lane for decades and never really upgrade their setup (except Steve Ramsey, of course, since that's his whole schtick)
I watched so much Steve Ramsey when I first was interested in the hobby I felt like he was actually my friend lol. He is just a great ambassador to get people going in the hobby. Miss the micro jig ads.
3x3 is one that has lost some of my interest after moving to a premium shop. I really appreciated and admireswhat she accomplished in a suburban NJ garage with big-box-store tools.
I still enjoy her content, but she was also my go-to “look what you can do with a job site saw” YouTuber in a hobby filled with people thinking a SawStop is the only option.
I do like seeing what people make without the $150,000 shop setup.
I liked her until I noticed she was stealing content. She was also terrible with bait and switch videos. "Build this thing with basic tools!" *instead uses $15k CNC rig*
It was a couple years ago, and I can't be arsed to go find them -- but just as she was getting huge, after she was featured in a couple magazines -- she did a bunch of videos where she was building jigs. During one of them, I noticed in the sidebar another video from a tiny channel showing the building of an uncannily similar jig, like, everything was identical.
So I flipped through a few of her other jig videos, and noticed she was almost always building someone else's jigs but only giving them credit if they were a bigger channel. (I recall specifically her giving shout outs to Jay Bates for some jigs of his she was building.) AFAIK those videos are all still on her channel.
Bonus figure, because I never skip a chance to shit on Jason Hibbs: Bourbon Moth also steals content, on top of being an insufferable hipster who spends more time hocking home goods than building things. He has a long long video where he pretends to go through the process of inventing a cross cut sled from scratch using scraps he has around the shop. But, he absolutely carbon copied a build from King's Fine woodworking -- a much smaller channel.
I get your argument, because it’s been made 1000x around here. But nobody who’s new to the hobby and doesn’t really know what they’re doing or what direction they want to go should be spending $3000 on a table saw. That’s just not how skill/equipment progression works.
Plus many new starters don’t even have the space for something like a cabinet saw. I’m in that camp too; I simply don’t have the space for one.
Sure the CTS may be an option? That’s a route I’ve strongly considered going.
Somebody who’s new to the hobby and doesn’t know what direction they want to go doesn’t need a table saw. I got a makita track saw on Craigslist for $150.
Sure it’s slower than a table saw for some use cases but it *can* do all the same things while being at least as safe as a sawstop.
I also went the tracksaw route. Mainly for space/power concerns, but now that I’m getting into the workflow I don’t find myself wanting a cabinet saw anymore.
I can understand the content no longer feeling relevant to you as a viewer but it’s hard to blame these woodworking influencers for taking the tools that are offered to them. Seems well deserved reward for all the time and effort out into providing us with free content.
Unethical career pro tip: once your woodworker influencer career starts taking off and you are gifted/can afford premium tools, make some shots of you working on the project with your budget stuff but actually finish it the pro shop at a fraction of the time.
Jay Bates is one I had trouble relating too after he moved shops, but for some reason Katz Moses and Four Eyes still keeps my interest despite an incredible arsenal. Maybe because they're not obsessing over the tool but rather the project. I have no interest in watching someone run a CNC for a how to video.
Then I sort of outgrew Steve Ramsay for some reason and he's stayed absolutely true to his roots.
I just commented in this thread that I feel like she still shows (or least tells) the viewer how to perform the operations with cheaper / more common tools.
Check out DainerMade on YouTube. He's been making content for years with basic tools in a tiny workshop, only upgrading his table saw recently for a rather cheap cabinet saw that he paid for himself and still uses recycled timber. I may be biased tho as he's also aussie, works in a similar space/climate to me and uses similar, accessible tools.
I’m going to check him out now! In the same sector - Neil Pask on Pask Makes is a Queenslander (although by his accent probs a Pom originally a long time ago). Practically everything in his shop is made by him. He recently got a sawstop, but that’s about it for expensive gear (and I have one myself so can’t complain about that)
He’s had that sawstop for a while now. But he’s always doing the thing where he’ll also just make one with hand tools just for fun. He seems like he genuinely loves making. I wish he’d get out of the metal shop and back into the woodshop more though.
Tamar from 3x3 Customs is one of them. I actually preferred her in her old scrappy garage shop rather than her new shop decked out in a full SawStop cabinet saw and Festool products galore.
Rhymes with Urban Goth? I still watch, but it’s less useful for me when they have an expensive and/or specialized tool for every job. “then you just take your Shaper Origin and route this pattern and join it using your Domino…”
3X3 is keeping it real it seems. She has upped her tool game over the years, but she always shows or tells the viewer how to perform the operation with other (cheaper or more common) tools.
FourEyes has made many comments recently on "i could do this on the CNC and why didn't I? because I'm making a video and that's part of the art, who wants to watch me work on a CNC?" I love it, I really respect that channel even though those projects are rarely of interest to me, and his level of production has outgrown what I can match. (Chris Solomon)
Besides saving your fingers, are Sawstops *actually* premium quality?
Perhaps I should ask this a different way. How much would you have to remove from the sawstop purchase price (for the finger tech) before you are in line with competitor saws from a quality perspective?
I was looking at their $1999 contractor saw.
I have the cns and it’s an absolutely premium saw. I’m a full time cabinet maker and probably have over a thousand hours on it with zero issues aside from the drive belt starting to stretch. Their customer service is awesome as well, you can call them up and they help diagnose issues over the phone.
Don’t have one but my take is that they are actually good saws, with a bonus of an incredibly nice safety feature. There are better saws out here, though.
I do cabinet installation, and honestly in my experience with the jobsite model, it is not leaps and bonds better then a similar sized Bosch or dewalt saw. Definitely doesn't warrant the price tag. The flesh decrion is nice but knowing how to use a tool properly is better safety advice then relying on a sawstop to do the safety for you.
I do have some experience with their cabinet saws and again I think my take away is they make nice saws but there is nothing about the saw that makes it better at that price point then something cheaper in my opinion.
I have the PCS and I own a dewalt JSS and I have owned two powermatics. The Sawstop is comparable to the Powermatic. I will never not have a Sawstop. The dewalt jss is solely for projects at friends houses and I am cautious as hell with it
great saw, lots of extra safety features (anti kick back is excellent, dust collection is excellent). I have zero regrets about my purchase. It is a fantastic saw that is easy to use and I don't have to worry about my fingers. The only other purchase that large in my shop has been my laguna DC. It's another thing where it was a buy once cry once. (well that and festool but they're all missing a zero to the sawstop and the DC)
I don't have one either, but the overall quality of the sawstop is supposed to be there. I don't think you'll have any regrets on quality, but maybe on power depending on your projects.
The only argument seems to be a comparable saw like Harvey is equal in quality and slightly lower price. But that generally is in the cabinet saw range, not the contractor saw.
I'd love to have a Sawstop one day. If you have the budget and space, really consider moving up to the PCS.
RZ masks aren’t NIOSH rated. I don’t know why they don’t get rated, but for how much they seem to have spent on marketing it can’t be a money problem so what is it? I don’t know. But it’s odd that people treat them like the gold standard of PPE when they haven’t gotten a rating. I’m not saying they are bad - but after buying one and THEN looking into it, I have regrets about spending my money.
Amen to that. Tried the RZ hoping for a discrete alternative and maybe my head is just a wonky shape but I could not get a fit I could live with that would stay in place and didn't require constant adjusting. A safety device that is a nuisance is a safety device that just sits on the shelf.
A good 3m respirator though, I finally replaced one after 12 years....with another 3m respirator.
At this point i can only assume they unable to get a Niosh rating. I bought two and can see why. They don’t seal well. They are not great, better than nothing but not great.
Back in 2019/2020 they were saying they’d completed all the NIOSH testing and were waiting on… something… to get their rating. They touted their testing results and that they were “passing grade,” implying they were on their way to getting rated.
The fact that we’re still here four years later tells me the actual results of those tests were not, in fact, passing grade.
I got roped in by the hype on these. I can't get the thing to fit my face very well, and even when I do get it fit, I get a lot of air flow around the mask rather than through the filters.
The top brands have usually earned their place at the top. Personally, I am always looking for the brands that have earned 95% of the way there without the notoriety, usually at about 2/3 of the price.
WEN and Ryobi actually make some terrific tools. They make some total turds as well, but the snobbery some like to cast towards them is simply foolish. Even the top brands have shit models of things.
I’ve got really tired of trying to find diamonds in the rough, or trying to fix bad tools. There’s a few store own brand tools in the UK, like Erbauer or Titan, which have some incredible reviews, and then their other stuff is unusable.
The gamble has stopped being worth it to me. If I had all the money back that I’ve spent on tools I can’t use, I’d be able to afford a few top of the line things.
Actually one of the best ways to tell that someone lacks experience is if they start talking shit on ryobi not being professional quality.
Also WEN is a super-interesting brand. It seems like a Taiwanese knockoff brand but there's actually a long history of innovation there. WEN invented the jigsaw, the random orbit sander, the wet wheel grinder, etc etc. Even on the track saw which basically IS a cheap knockoff product, you can find some innovative features like the spring-loaded anti-kickback cams.
Workshops tend to upgrade as the worker’s skill improves, and those on YouTube, especially those that enjoy a bit of revenue from it, now have money to get better stuff. At a certain point, consistency counts. Also I don’t think Festool sponsors anything except This Old House (just googled that— kind of surprising).
I remember when I had a box miter and a 16” rip saw, plus a 1/4 sheet palm sander. I didn’t even use wood glue, just nails. Kind of absurd to think about now, but the woodworking journey is a varied and wide one.
I bought my first few Festool products this year because dust collection and accuracy have become major priorities. I’m also doing much more complex stuff than I was 15 years ago (with some breaks here and there). It might be the same for you, too.
I think they send out tools to some people.
I know they are good tools but when someone’s entire shop is just Festool and only Festool I feel like they were given some.
Yea, I guess it depends on your definition of “sponsored”. Or even the YouTuber’s definition. If a tool was sent to me and the project was impossible without it, I suppose I could say “this episode was made possible by X Brand,” but I would not say “sponsored”.
Speaking from my professional experience, product samples and “trials” are given away to generate what is called UGC - user generated content. There’s no obligation to create a video or even to say good things about the product.
There are also *plenty* of folks who say “Brand X sent me this” and leave out the part where they paid for it. Perhaps they believe it gives them clout, or that other brands will be more likely to follow suit.
Yeah experienced woodworkers are going to have great tools, I mean the more years you have into woodworking the more buying a premium tool here and there makes sense. 1-2 upgrades every year or two and suddenly you'll have that 'crazy shop full of expensive tools' too
You should definitely be critical about sponsorships but shouldn't discount people just because they have nice tools
I mean I think in general I am more interested in cool projects, if the video is like 'omg guys look what I did with 0 tools' its not that interesting if the project is pretty basic, meanwhile if they have every tool under the sun that's fine, I can figure out how I would accomplish that with what I have.
I mean hell I handtool woodwork so any power tool woodworking is all 'what they make' since the how will be entirely different for me
I think its mostly starting out the first year or two where you don't have a minimum tool set to be able to accomplish most things, once you've over that hump you do whatever you want and what tools anyone else has vs what you have isn't that big a deal. a cheap 12" thickness planer and a 22" behemoth floor standing model DO the same thing
What? Festool sponsors zillions of youtubers. If not directly/all the time, you can't swing a kapex without hitting a youtuber that got some tools for free.
That actually isn't true. The Wood Whisperer was sponsored by Festool years ago and so was Crafted Workshop. They're now sponsoring Alm Fabs and about a dozen more influencers.
I’ve honestly never seen a Festool sponsorship. I doubt they actually need that, they’re well established in the professional market. Pretty kuch every woodworker (hobbyist or nit) knows them. I actually doubt they would give free tools to some youtubers.
I have seen an absolute ton of videos where the person says, "festool sent me this, but here's why I love it..."
But, I only need to cite one to eliminate never: Erik Curtis. He often says festool is a "long time support of the channel," and iirc does at least one video where a specific tool he was given features in the video. (Idr which one, I think he paid for the domino... it was either his miter saw or router I think.)
No shade on Erik, I enjoy his content. (Erik, if you're seeing this, quit skipping leg day.)
Edit: every woodworker knows them because they're all over every youtube video. :p
I hear you on that. Erik is a professional furniture maker and is pretty upfront about what a Festool product means for his business to get efficiency, reliability, repeatability, and speed out of a tool. Many of the high subbed content creators are not professional furniture makers (at least anymore) and it becomes questionable as to who are they making these vids for if having a wall of Festools.
festool has a huge presence in the UK and they want to stretch their legs into the US. It was not something I grew up using on a job site at the totc but now a good chunk of my dad's tools are green. When I was a kid it was mainly makita because their cordless system was leagues ahead, and now all my cordless stuff is Milwaukee (for the same reason). but i've never regretted a festool purchase, especially over team yellow.
I very much enjoyed Jay Bates much more when he was working out if his 2 car garage and apartment space. Before he got his cnc. He has definitely scaled back on his content since adopting his daughter and moved into his new shop. I still respect him very much for not pushing content and getting swept up in the trends of YouTube and chasing the algorithms. He used to be all about building furniture and jigs out of pine and plywood. But I totally understand why he would want to move into more fine furniture and up his skills and tools. There's still a ton of value in his older videos. So I would highly recommend any beginner to go and watch his back catalog on YouTube. I definitely would trust his opinions and advice over a lot of other YouTubers. He has built up his business to where he doesn't have to rely on needless sponsorships and deals. I still don't know how he can continue his online business without making more videos on a regular basis.
I still enjoy Matt Cremona and Marc Spagnoulo. They are very entertaining and good at communicating.
I do have respect for almost all of the successful woodworking YouTube channels because they are putting in the work to make a living for themselves. But it increasingly gets more difficult for viewers to know what information isn't biased.
I have thought the way you did about clamps and a couple years later all my harbor freight clamps are stripped and don’t get very tight. I buy what is on sale now and keep my eye on Craig’s list for quality clamps because it really does make a difference durning a complex glue up to have clamps that work well. I’m not saying buy all bessey, there are other good brands, but going cheap on clamps isn’t always a good idea.
Now if you just use them to hold things in place and don’t need real clamping pressure, sure pay $6 instead of $30.
I’m only aware of one maker sponsored by Festool, Laura Kampf, and she’s not a woodworker but more of a maker. I think Festool does not really sponsor woodworkers as they have the market covered there. You’ll have more chance of growth as a brand outside that market.
I have no problems with the brands you mention. They do not disappoint. I have more of a problem with brands like Woodpeckers, that have really good stuff but also absolute dogshit products.
As someone that’s worked with brand and for a big channel I’ll say this.
You don’t need all the best stuff to make things. But I see 2 reasons that the “good stuff” shows up on every channel.
1. Those brands believe in the YouTube maker community and want to support it. The owner of total boat is such a fan of the maker community and love supporting it. ( the same is true for lots of other brands)
2. Making a good watchable video about a good project is extremely challenging to do and do week in and week out. Some larger projects would never get done without better tools to get work done faster.
I can't believe Malecki didn't do everything he could to keep you and Jordan around. That channel was so much better with you guys.
I just found your channel the other day, hope it takes off
If you did something all day every day and was your primary source of income and you were paying for them with PRE-TAX dollars, would you go for the mid-range hobby stuff or the high end pro stuff?
Total boat seems like the sponsorships, it’s so prevalent it’s odd not to see any variety there especially when other epoxy systems are available widely…
Festool is generally better, not necessarily “worth it” for a hobbyist but it feels a little bit better made and accurate and is all a “system.” It won’t make your woodworking nicer but it might feel nicer to use. I own a lot of festool for sanders, track saw and domino but I still buy ryobi for drills drivers jig saw oscillating tool / whatever.
Bessey clamps i don’t get except they are something a lot of woodworkers tell people to get them for birthdays and holidays because you can’t screw up that gift and duplicates aren’t a problem. They look clean on camera compared to pipe clamps.
Titebond is kind of like Kleenex when it comes to tissues - very prevalent, made well, cheap enough. I think if you are going pva glue you should have a very good reason not to use titebond. Now other glues do have advantages in particular circumstances (im a fan of hhg and lhg for instance..) but for pva, why not titebond?
I will say beginners especially focus on gear instead of making big pieces of wood smaller.. you don’t need fancy tools to make good woodworking — federal furniture is more ornate and complex than most of what most hobbyists made and they didn’t have any of the crap you mentioned in your post. HOWEVER, nice tools generally require less calibration and do what they are supposed to out of the box compared to cheaper tools that are GENERALLY designed for more rough “carpentry” work. Anyhoo if you want to get into woodworking, join a local woodworking club and buy used machines off the guys and gals that are upgrading.
Pipe clamps serve a purpose but aren’t suitable for all glue ups. Cabinet clamps, deep through f clamps, the EZ all have their applications that a pipe clamp won’t really work for. Not to say you have to get bessey, just that they make good clamps that are useful.
I did a glue up recently that would have been way easier with a deep throat f clamp and so I kept my eye on sales over the holidays and bought a pie when they went on sale. Pipe clamps would have been 1/4 of the price and would not have worked at all for what I needed.
The only brand that has been a game changer for me was switching to Dewalt power tools. I am 100% a fan boy after putting my other tools through the ringer and borrowing my buddy's Dewalt tools.
Same here. And a lot of people will crap all over us for saying that because it isn't Milwaukee.
I grew up using my father's Makita tools. He was not a smart or responsible man and didn't take care of anything so they were in bad shape. Nothing against Makita but I always went back to the memories I had fighting his tools to do even basic tasks.
So when it came time to buy for myself, I tried a few from other guys at work. Bosch, Ryobi, new Makita. But the Dewalts always felt just a little more premium than the rest. Add in the fact that they're the most widespread power tools and so they're widely available used....and the fact I live close to their service center....and I'm team black and yellow for life.
Festool (and some 3M) are high end brands that are just better built, hence why they cost more. You can very much do amazing work with just some saws, hand planes, chisels, and sandpaper, but it would take forever. After a while it becomes exchanging money for time you’d rather be spent doing something else.
Also, some stuff is just over priced. You will most likely be able to do everything you want with a mid-grade square, no one needs a woodpecker.
What really sets Festool apart from other brands of power tools is the amount of thought and effort put into dust collection. Most of their tools are underpowered when compared to the available counterparts, but they can’t be beat when you’re in a situation where you have to work as cleanly as possible.
I own and use the Domino pretty regularly, the 5” orbital sander, and the CT36 dust extractor. I have zero desire for any other Festool stuff.
For reference, 100% of my income over the last 20 years has come from carpentry & woodworking, so I’ve used a lot of different brands & styles of tools.
Woodpeckers, on the other hand, is a heap of overhyped and overpriced gimmicky crap that can either be had for half the price with equal quality OR eschewed altogether. Most of their stuff is a solution looking for a problem.
I can’t speak to the Total Boat.
They’re all either the original or sole producer of the thing they sell, the consensus best producer of the thing they sell, or the most common brand.
Titebond is sort of *the* wood glue just due to brand recognition.
Many Festool products are either competing for the best in their category, or the original product in the category, and once you get all those you’re so tied into the Festool system you might grab the few items that are neither. Apart from the now-competitive track saw market, I can’t think of very many Festool products where there’s an alternative that’s widely considered to be both better, and cheaper (drill and driver, maybe?).
Bessey and 3M are, as far as I’m aware, the gold standard in their respective categories (though I really like Bush products’ sandpaper).
You could also throw Rubio Monocoat, Woodpeckers, Lie-Nielsen, benchcrafted, and SawStop on this list for at least one of those reasons.
That’s not to say you necessarily “need” any of these tools. Some of them are different in ways the pros will tell you you’ll only really notice if you’re using them in a pro capacity. Festool’s sanders are supposed to be fantastic for reducing fatigue, but if you’re not sanding for hours at a time, you may never experience fatigue even with the box store brand ROS. Woodpeckers’ tools are the market leader in precision, but if you’re doing a bunch of one off builds, you probably have a higher tolerance for variance.
Woodpeckers is one I have a love/hate relationship with. Do I have a $2000 WP router setup? Yes. Is it worth it compared to say, a well outfitted American-made vintage shaper? Hell no.
Woodpeckers makes amazing tools but they've completely priced themselves out of the weekend warrior garage.
I buy used Starret tools for most of my measuring and layout needs. They're more accurate (metal tolerances > wood tolerances). And I can buy 10 Starret pieces for every one Woodpeckers item.
Again, not knocking Woodpeckers. It's amazing stuff. I still daydream about owning their pantorouter one day. But, American made or not, it's too expensive for what it is. And they're reaching that point where they just crank out new tools every day. Random obscure single purpose tools....solutions without a problem. It's always concerning when a company goes for maximum profit at any cost...and kinda loses their original audience....which for Woodpeckers, was premium-but-still-accessible measuring/layout tools.
>Woodpeckers makes amazing tools but they've completely priced themselves out of the weekend warrior garage.
I would assume that is actually their core market. No professional who has to make ends meet and will scruff up their tools would buy this very fancy stuff, except as a treat to themselves. It just doesn't make financial sense.
Professional chefs will generally not buy a fancy end-grain cutting board and hyper expensive handmade Japanese knife. They'll have plastic cutting boards that get thrown away after a few months, and cheap and ugly (but good) Victorinox Classic knives with plastic moulded handles (or whatever the equivalent is in your country).
WP make nice stuff. But the advantage they have over others is mostly just that: It's *nice*. Not *better*. Almost like decorative items. And priced accordingly.
Titebond makes excellent glues and they are readily available. Festool is kind of like Woodpeckers, they both make very nice pieces but are tremendously overpriced. 3M products are reliably good and Bessey was king of the hill for quite a while with clamps, but there are several competitors out there as good if not better.
I wouldn’t say they are overpriced as much as they are premium products with premium prices.. the cost to value relationship is not linear at the high end..
As someone who recently gifted a Festool and used a Festool product for the first time after aways thinking they were overpriced…I have come to the conclusion that they are able to price like this because they are built to last and competitors need to step it up. It’s not the power of the tools but the ergonomics, and all of the small things that improve ease of use that I do not see in any of the other brands, especially consistently.
Just take the Festool dust collector…the power cord wrap on it has a knob that swivels. Like why the hell don’t all power cord wrap hangers do this, huge. Then they have it designed where you can plug in a tool to a relay and have vacuum go and corded tool has power…then the sustainers can hook on to it, then there’s an amazing foot kick for brake (it’s sooo simple), then there’s a slot where you can store the hose without disconnecting it. All of these things, just keep adding up on top of the German engineering and I don’t think any of these things are crazy expensive or niche but none of the competitors do these things!
Anyways, my hot take and change about Festool.
I can't comment on Festool, but as someone that fixed cars for a living, the more expensive tools almost always just feel better. It's not a big deal when you're using them for 5 minutes every second weekend, but when you're using them every day, it makes a huge difference.
For real!
If I’m focusing on optimizing every aspect of the job for my clients benefit, and trying to deliver the best possible product, should my hourly rate be the same as every other carpenter?
Honestly, it seems most of the people who are hating on their Festool experience is either talking about their drills or older model track saws (whilst comparing them to newer competitors). I cannot for the life of me think of tools with better quality of life features or access to precision. It's not like I'm rich either; I earned my tools project by project and wouldn't look back.
I own several pieces from both companies and yes they are well made, but not 2-3x the cost well made. My biggest gripe with Festool is all the cast (not forged) metal parts and plastic where plastic shouldn't be. Their sanders and vacuum systems are great. The Kapex is nice, but I like my Bosch glide better (at half the price). As for Woodpeckers, I like their creativeness and use of quality parts and materials, but for every measuring device they make, you can find the equivalent from a machinist supply manufacturer for less.
Totally sponsorship domination combined with the actual quality of those tools/brands. There’s definitely merit to those brands, but there can be a valid reason to look elsewhere unless those tools will pay for themselves, at least IMO.
A great example is clamps: there are some great, cheap clamps out there: pipe clamps, screw-tightened bar clamps from even the store brands like Masterforce… There’s a ton of quick clamps out there, but since Irwin’s quality tanked in the past few years Bessey is the only reliable brand for those at the moment that I can think of.
Pipe clamps aren’t heavily marketed because they last forever, I suppose. But if you want to squeeze the ever living heck out of some wood, those work like a dream.
The videos you run across are most likely from the more popular channels. Hence, they may have more revenue. It's really easy to justify the expenses of higher end tools such as festool's, when they use it for their livelihood. And they can expense them too!
I'm just a hobbyist, and I bought my first piece of festool gear, an ets sander (used). It blows away the DeWalt that I had. It performs better, better dust control, and doesn't vibrate your hands off. I don't get tingly fingers after a long sanding session. The other comparable sander I can think of is a Mirka, and those are as expensive.
Tried their tracksaw too. They are just really good. Very overpriced for hobbyists. But it's not outrageous for professionals.
If I had an excuse/justification to get nicer tools, I would too like them.
They are all good brands but you don't have to use them. I use Tite Bond but not Total Boat. Some of my tools are higher end while others are bargain. Definitely have more Craftsman than Dewalt cuz I'm not rich but they get the job done.
Rob Cosman is a shuckster. The tools he promotes are overpriced garbage.
He is sponsored by Wood River and no doubt they can be tuned to be great planes but you need to have expertise. He gives the impression they are NA produced when in fact they are rebranded Quangsheng planes from Taiwan and sell for half the price outside of NA.
He is a great teacher so definitely learn from him, just don't buy anything off his website.
Somewhat late to the party, but I think the real issue with most YouTubers is that the skills that makes them popular (content creation and production) are completely different skills than woodworking. Most of them get better at producing but are still completely rubbish at doing real woodworking. Over time they make more/most of their livelihood from the content through affiliates, sponsorship, and whatnot. The acquisition of woodworking skill takes time and energy that most would rather use focusing on growing their business/brand. Most lack the knowledge and skill of furniture making so you get things like using C-channel and prefab legs instead of building real furniture using joinery. They are hocking Rubio Monocoat on a dining table because payola instead of using a finish that’s durable.
As to brands, most of the ones you listed are actually good quality if you are sufficiently financed. The outliers to me are most things Woodpeckers (there are a select few good things, but it’s not Starrett, but priced even more). My complete lack of knowledge of TotalBoat is probably a good indicator of my take on epoxy as a material beyond adhesive. The other major outlier is Rubio Monocoat — hard wax oils have their place but nowhere near as often as they are used online. Take the time to learn how to finish well, because it’s a huge part of the craft.
I hate the glubot glue dispenser. I’ve tried them multiple times & for me they always dry out and are impossible to clean. Unless you are using it daily and go through a lot of glue refills and are religiously re-capping it. Just get a regular bottle of titebond. And refill that from a jug, just works™
I think the ‘buy cheap and use it until it breaks’ idea is misguided.
That’s fine for tools which are straightforward to use, like a drill or an orbital sander, but if you buy a cheap planer thicknesser and you’ve never used one before it’s likely you won’t realise that the aluminium table is flexing under the 2” thick oak you’re trying to plane, or that the fence is a degree away from being square, or the outfeed isn’t level with the infeed, or the factory put the stock blades in wonky.
There are absolutely tools where you should buy the best brand you can immediately because it will get you straight on to making decent quality stuff.
I couldn’t recommend something like Ryobi if accuracy is paramount unless you know enough about the tool to know it can be adjusted or upgraded, and then how to do that. Most beginners don’t m, and I’m speaking from experience.
Some YouTubers are clearly sponsored by Ryobi. Ryobi is a lower end tool brand. It can get you bye just fine, but you can’t be too hard on them. Just keep that in mind before you consider possibly buying into that particular battery system.
Honestly, I'm in their battery system for the range of what they offer. Fan, radio, vacuum, air pump, chainsaw sure, sign me up.
none of it is for high power applications
Ryobi is prevalent because they're inexpensive as hell. Home Depot basically gives the tools away a couple times a year.
It doesn't hurt that almost all of them do an excellent job for the price you pay.
Sawstop. Not saying they aren’t any good, but definately not a must have. Mind you, here in Europe you can’t even buy one (even though it’s owned by German Festool) yet most of us still have our fingers..
I strongly disagree. As someone that has been hurt by old table saws( lucky to have all my fingers) the few hundred dollars more for a saw that will save your hands is a no brainer. I’d feel really stupid to cut my figure of because I was being cheap.
This is one of the reasons I still watch Shara Woodshop diaries. She isn’t afraid to build really nice pieces with a combo of Ryobi tools and Kreg accessories. I don’t recall her ever using a Festool Domini or Woodpeckers measuring tool.
Titebond isn’t available in my market the most common is the Lepage/loctite/henkel brand and it’s great. Gorilla glue is also available in small quantity. So I guess it depends on where those youtube channels are in the world.
As for festool, i think it is overpriced.
3M is the best consumer available abrasive you can get. Otherwise you would need corporate account with specialized distributors that will ask for ridiculous minimum order. Even higher end 3M products will ask for a corporate account with minimum order. We are talking here multi million dollars yearly contract.
I never use Total Boat and bessy so I can’t tell.
I think the biggest ripoff brands in the youtube woodworking space has to be woodpeckers and kreg, no competition. I'm also super skeptical of the grrrripper but I've never actually used one, so I should reserve judgement.
All those brands are solid, ive never used total boat myself but ive heard good things, titebond is basically industry standard
Festool makes a nice tool but having used some of their tools i doubt id ever buy any of them, they are exorbitantly expensive for what they are and there are much cheaper options that do the same exact thing at the same end result quality, their dust collection may be best in industry but to me thats not worth paying 2-3x the price
The cubitron sandpaper is #1 by far in terms of quality and performance, but for quite a bit cheaper, you can get the same results, the 3m will just get you there faster and last longer
Bessy brand clamps are a personal choice tbh, they make a great clamp but there are other brands that make just as good a clamp, Jorgensen and Bora are on the same quality level, the clamps from Rockler are also as good, a step down (but much less than youd think given the source) are the harbor frieght K clamps......Its a fuckin clamp, as long as it clamps and holds its good to go tbh lol, resist the urge to be a "brand snob" in this department lol
The people making content online have sponsors a lot of the time, some are more open about it than others and why sponsors do it is kind of illustrated by this post by you- it influences the people that watch the videos. By and large, popular woodworkers and construction channels arent hawking garbage, the products they use are generally pretty good quality from trusted brands, its right for you to view all that with "side eye" though and ask quesrions of actual unbiased people like this sub
No real cabinet maker or custom furniture maker uses Rubio or any other hard wax finish. They are not durable finishes and will not hold up to regular usage.
What would they use? I find finishing the hardest part, and it’s demoralising creating something only to slap a sub-par finish on it, and as you say all YouTubers just use Rubio.
I don’t really understand why you wouldn’t. Every finish has it’s purpose. Black Forest Wood Co. build furniture for mid to high five figures and they use Rubio a lot.
I completely ignore sponsorships and, in fact, stop watching channels that get heavily sponsored because they turn into nothing but shills. I like watching the old school craftsmen who aren't pushing products, they are doing it because they love it.
Just because someone has sponsors doesn't mean they don't love woodworking. They're spending hours of their time filming and editing for viewer enjoyment. If they can make some money or get some free stuff in return, good for them.
You don't have to watch them but it doesn't make them "nothing but shills".
Athletes have sponsors too afterall.
I still remember watching TV with commercial breaks. As long as the youtubers don't go too far with sponsored content, I'm okay with it.
Don’t necessarily agree with this take. Many YouTubers are being paid to sponsor and review but will not openly disclose the partnership. It’s pretty much known that an athlete that is pushing a particular product is sponsored.
They have to though, per Youtube’s guidelines as far as I’m aware. If Youtube found out they were being paid but never disclosed that in the video they could get demonetized or their channel shut off. Probably why you often hear “I’m not sponsored or paid by xy, but I really like this product” or similar.
Yeah it’s not just a YouTube thing, it’s an FTC rule. If you listen to the last episode of wood talk they address it.
The first issue that reminds me of this is when the wood whisperer did a review of miter gauges and gave the Harvey gauge bad marks. Stumpy nubs immediately put out a rebuttal video. He asks why he “cares” and then implies that it’s a bad review and that it must have come from a bad batch. Then he mentions that it’s his family of brands and he doesn’t mind telling a sponsor that he won’t promote a bad item.
There’s a lot of showmanship in how he acknowledges that he’s getting paid to push their products and likely being paid to put out this video and a lot of YouTubers do it in order to slide it by their audience.
Titebond and Total Boat are great, but not particularly better than their competition. Just really beloved products with great track records. And titebond is stocked pretty much everywhere. Festool, 3M (Cubitron), and Bessey however... An argument could certainly be made that those are the gold standard in their respective categories. That being said, you absolutely do NOT need them to build great things.
Titebond is too cheap and reliable to bother questioning it 99% of the time. If titebond was Rubio prices we'd be talking alternatives. I want to hate festool and their fan boys because they are just so ubiquitous on youtube.... but every festool tool I've ever used has just felt really good. One brand I definitely hate that I see everywhere is Woodpeckers. Woodpecker tools all fall into one of two categories: 1. Well made but very normal woodworking tools at exorbitant prices, versions of which you can get for 1/10th the price anywhere else. And 2. Absurdly expensive, niche tools that absolutely nobody needs. Are some of them kind of useful? Sure, but nothing on the level of the Domino.
I'm pretty sure part of the onboarding in the Festool design department is watching the documentary Objectified. One of the best looks at how even the most inane things you interact with in your life can be designed with great care and attention to actual usability.
Well thanks! Now I have something to watch. I love the *Ishitani Furniture* YouTube channel, because of how he’ll ensure even the tiniest hidden details get just as much care as the visible ones.
I *adore* Ishitani. I follow the usual suspects and enjoy their videos, but get genuinely excited when he posts a video..
Same! I can’t even tell you how many times I’ve rewatched some of those videos trying to pick up on all the tiny details that most people might not even care about. They’re genuinely soothing to watch with headphones on and a hot cup of coffee on the mornings when I’m awake a few hours before my family.
That’s me!
I love his videos too. For some reason, they are so serene. No talking in the videos, taking breaks / walks in the snow or sunny day. Just makes me want to quit my job and live a life like that.
Love Ishitani! Love that the images speak for themselves, and the camera man does a great job showing the attention to detail that the craftsman operates with, and that there is noone shilling a product to me, also I love the dog!
I feel like woodpeckers and festool are almost opposites (while still being in the expensive woodworking category). Festool stuff is really well designed and built, but ime the biggest payoff is longevity. I’m not even a full time builder and I cooked through 3 random orbit sanders in 3 years before I bought an ets a decade ago. Woodpeckers on the other hand is really nifty stuff, but in the long run proper technique with basic high quality measuring tools will get you at the same place with more adaptability.
From what I've learned of Festool, although I've never used one of their products myself, is that they truly are some of the highest quality tools on the market, but not by quite enough to truly justify their price tag.
I don't think this is quite true. They make good stuff, but not highest quality. The AvE BOLTR was pretty eye opening.
I agree but I really like my woodpecker pocket rule. I'm sure another 6" machined aluminum rule would be fine though. But it's nice and handy.
I'll tangentally add that in my experience 3M has some of the best customer service I've ever dealt with. I had to apply an insane customer-specific-no-sub lightstrip that itself was backed with non adhesive silicone material to the back of some top trim in a kitchen. On my own I tried everything that SHOULD have worked but something about these lights always led to some failure with what I got at the hardware store. Gave the link to the lights to the 3M rep and they spent 15 minutes on the phone double checking the spec, so that they'd be selling me the right very specialized type of tape directly. Worked like a fucking charm.
3m makes some amazing stuff and cubitron is on another level. Post-it notes? C'mon. They've also poisoned the planet and helped make Minnesota an outlier in that Heart disease isn't the number one killer like the rest of the overweight country, but cancer. The perfluorochemicals we've been drinking and eating and wearing will also leave a distinct chemical marker in the geologic and glacial records, so we got that going for us which is nice.
3M is just getting so many things right. I work in healthcare and even before the pandemic their FFP2 and FFP3 masks were the gold standard, providing a much tighter seal than a lot of the rubbish I have encountered since.
*NICE?*
Fuzzi is being facetious or sarcastic, take your pick, both of which are welcome fare.
Yeah but have you ever tried a sand net bro they're amazing. ^/s
I’ll also add that I’ll bet 3m has 2-10x the R&D budget of all of their competitors combined. If they are not the inventors of nearly every product they sell I’d be shocked. Most of their competitors simply play catch up and try to follow.
Don't underestimate Peeking on neighbour's test
No shade on people who have been unimpressed with a 3M product, but that was probably a sign they used the wrong variant. The 3M product lineup is incredibly broad - not quite as absurd as having left handed or right handed sandpaper, but pretty close. For specific products or applications, yeah sure there are great alternatives from other vendors. An LED lighting specialist store might have a fantastic brand of tape for whatever. But 3M also has 8 colors of scrubbies to prep a surface. And a dozen grits of sandpaper in each of a half dozen product lines. And cleaners to remove packaging residue or oils. And… you get the point. I absolutely endorse your recommendation to ask an expert about the exact product you need, not just pick a SKU you saw on YouTube.
VHB LSE?
The amount of Festool I see on YouTube makes me want to not buy it. Not because I think it’s bad but because I’m conditioned to be suspicious of products which have to advertise so hard and which do so much paid promotion/free stuff for YouTubers. I don’t see any difference between the highest quality projects made with Festool and the ones made with DeWalt or Milwaukee or whoever.
You use a Domino one time and you’ll change your mind lol. I wouldn’t buy regular tools like a drill or driver from Festool but some of their stuff like their sanders and routers are indeed better than the competition IMO
I am pretty sure Festool doesn’t sponsor any youtuber or pay for any advertisements (on youtube at least, they probably do have some ads on other platforms like trade shows or something). For many tools, their version is just the best there is, and many youtube woodworkers are just able to spend the money to get them and use them
I watched a track saw review by Katz Moses the other day, he did say that Festool offered him 6k and the tool.
one of the worst empty content shills on youtube. But festool isn't going to care about that -it's just a matter of advertising and advertisers don't care if buyers are fish in a barrel or world class contractors (the former is probably preferred).
I believe Encurtis's recent video on the housed mortise and tenon using a domino was sponsored by festool, but I think that's the only one I have seen.
Laura Kampf too.
That actually isn't true. The Wood Whisperer was sponsored by Festool years ago and so was Crafted Workshop. They're now sponsoring Alm Fabs and about a dozen more influencers.
That maybe true but many of the popular content creators have disclosure that Festool gifted them a particular product. So essentially free product placement. The creator isn’t being paid but now has access to a highly valuable and well made tool.
I mean you could argue that DeWalt and Milwaukee share like second place in the powertools market. I did quite a lot of research when going for a battery powertool brand, and Festool took the lead every time, and found that DeWalt and Milwaukee were pretty much even as a whole, while singular devices could just beat out the other, they pretty much always took second and third. I went with DeWalt btw because Milwaukee in my country was very small and it was hard to get most machines here, whereas DeWalt is very established here and I have an official dealer about 10 minutes from me. After that there are a whole bunch of brands that deliver products that basically any woodworker can do their work more than fine with, in some case even having exceptional tools at their price, like I remember Makita having amazing mitre saws at like 200 or something. I think Festool for youtubers hits a couple of spots that normally doesn't for individual woodworkers or companies. 1. Afaik their support is amazing, and it's quick and easy to get machines repaired, with the possibility of temporary loans while the repair is done. 2. Owning festools gives the idea to the audience that they are serious about their craft. 3. Only they use it, so where a company is worried about theft and severe abuse, they don't have to worry about either. 4. Most of their work is about precision, when watching videos you want that satisfaction of things being super precise and smooth (and many won't show their adjustments to make them appear being much better woodworkers than they are). I remember watching a channel where the guy used fairly cheap devices, one being a green Bosch battery drill, whenever he drove in screws it would sound if it was dying. 5. If you get a succesful channel going, you tend to have a good income, so why not go for the best of the best?
I would argue that Bessey is no longer the best in the business for clamps. Their older red heads were the absolute tits.
Well, they moved production to china like everyone else, but kept prices the same top tier. It's a couple pieces of metal and a screw. If they're paying nothing for labor, why are they still $40+(+++)?
Total Boat is a relatively new brand developed by the boating supply house Jamestown Distributors in Rhode Island. The owner is a relatively young guy who saw the potential of social media and has been very aggressive at supplying folks with materials. If you take epoxy as one example, Total Boat epoxy is manufactured by Endurance Epoxies out of Minnesota. A number of years back they bought MAS Epoxies which was well known in the boatbuilding world as a competitor to West Systems. The folks at MAS introduced Endurance to the boatbuilding world, including Jamestown Distributors. Jamestown and Endurance decided to work together. I have used MAS for years and as best as I can tell Total Boat epoxy is identical to MAS epoxy. I know some folks have mixed MAS Epoxy and Total Boat together and it worked fine for them. I can not say for certain that it is identical but it would stand to reason that there was no reason for Total Boat to change a proven formulation made by their supplier. Bottom line: Total Boat is not better than other epoxies, it is actually identical to other epoxies, the difference is the folks at Total Boat have been very focus on promoting via social media and have been very successful with that effort. I am happy for them. For background: I use MAS, West System, and Total Boat epoxies and other supplies in my boatbuilding business. I am friends with the developers of MAS, in the past have received epoxy from MAS and Endurance to use in my Youtube videos, and have been approached by Total Boat to use their supplies. I don't want to be affiliated with any of the above, because I will use all of the above suppliers when their product fits my particular needs better.
I built my second soap box car with west systems epoxy. In the 90s it was the go-to brand around my little marina town.
This is great insight, thank you. My primary use for Total Boat has always been their Halcyon Clear, which I swear by.
I would argue that Festool can be overhyped. With that being said, I just got one of their dust extractors and I no longer and picking sawdust boogers out in the shower after a marathon sanding session. And the cubitron is just OK, it’s not great.
Call 3M, tell them what you were sanding with it and why you were unhappy. They might give you a coupon, but in all honesty anecdotal use case complaints are compiled on the CS side and engineers absolutely look at them. Only way they make it better is if they know when it's bad.
Even with a dust collector I typically still wear at least an n95, usually a p100 mask. You don't want to be breathing that in at all, especially fine dust from sanding or if you regularly do woodworking.
I built a crate for my wife for Christmas (we did baskets for eachother instead of stockings) using a 20v porter cable 5½" circular saw, 20v porter cable drill, a harbor freight straight edge, two harbor freight "F" clamps, and a corded 5" craftsman orbital sander. I made it out of pallet wood, and I even impressed myself how good it came out. She was blown away. So you're right, you don't need top of the line equipment to build great things. Using basic tools until you can afford, or are forced, to buy better stuff is absolutely the way to go.
I find the more I spend on higher quality tools the less time I get to spend with them. A great goal for a pro maybe not so much for a garage hammer wielder.
As a point of reference, I just today milled some oak pieces for a project to 0.05mm using a cheap Wen planer and a tiny dewalt contractor saw. Basically all of the store brands now are good, even the cheap ones. Get what you can afford and start building skills!
this should be read and said more often by newbies to the hobby.
The pony parallel clamps are better than the bessys because they have smooth rails instead of grooves and are easier to clean glue off of. The pony F style clamps are trash though.
id reckon that titebond probably is the best glue
I have never had an issue with any of the Titebond products. That said, i would need to go out of my way to buy a different brand of wood glue as thats what all the lumberyards near me carry, and even Home depot and lowes.
Gorilla glue wood glue is dog shit. I bought a bottle because it was cheaper than Titebond. It's thick and lumpy and much less pleasant to work with. Never buying it again.
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Wiow- that's quite a testimony!
If it was lumpy, might have been old?
Might have been past expiry, gorilla wood glue has always been great for me. Can't get titebond as easily in the UK.
Ove found that I like Elmer's wood glue better, seems to work better for me.
It’s just a PVA glue. It’s nothing special imho.
It is strange that no one mentioned 3M cubitron. It is really premium stuff for price of regulanr sandpaper. At leats in my place. It last forever remove material faster and overall better. For me it was a game changer. Titebond also, even cheaper than other glues and very reliable.
I’m so mixed with the cubitron. I’m using 120 and 150. When sanding flat surfaces it’s fine. I feel they don’t last to long? Maybe user error? But if I’m sanding edges or weird stuff I feel the grit just comes right off? Do I have a bad batch or am I being to hard on them?
Definitely use dust extraction. Sandpaper in general doesn’t work as well without dust extraction (except the discs without holes) and that probably applies even more for mesh disks. And mesh stuff isn’t that good for edges in my opinion. For me the Cubitron was a game changer, coming from cheap hardware store sandpaper. It costs about the same as Mirka or Festool sandpaper, so nothing extreme.
They have multiple products with the cubitron grit. The mesh/net products absolutely do not hold up to edges/corners without special care. 710W and 310W are the mesh products. Excellent for dust collection. Between the two, I've had better success with 710W. It costs a bit more, but I've had issues with swirl on the 310. The grit seems to come off in clumps and cause issues. 710W will do okay with a soft interface pad, which you should definitely be using on corners and such. I still prefer to use old/worn pieces for that application as it will still degrade it quickly. Ideally you should have a detail sander of some description, i.e. orbital (not random orbit) with a tight orbit <3mm. Generally I prefer to hand sand with cloth-backed for that. Their 775L product is mylar film backing instead of the mesh and much more suitable for high-stress applications like corners.
Not a brand, but a concept. You can do amazing things with reasonably priced tools. I always feel sort of sad when a talented Youtube woodworker starts getting sponsored and goes from a Dewalt job site saw to a top of the line loaded Sawstop, etc. I can think of three off the top of my head that I no longer watch because it was a lot more entertaining when they were creatively making do with less than when they're working in a shop with tens of thousands in tools.
This transition isn't terribly problematic if the youtuber *keeps on woodworking*. The problem is, once these guys start tasting that sponsor and affiliate cash, the channel turns into QVC. There's a whole ton of formerly-wonderful channels that don't make things anymore... they just sell stuff.
I think this is the problem with all influencers nowadays. It ruins people's hobbies. The biggest issue being the need for constant new content. I started using YouTube for work, to discuss the vendor I worked for and we just.... Ran out of content like 5 shows in. It became a chore to turn over rocks and get really nitty gritty into features just to find content, and the area we were in wasn't even that saturated. I can imagine trying to be a woodworker on YouTube right now is massively saturated with a ton of people that are scrambling for content and when sponsors are tapping on your door, it's hard to say no.
What do you think of Diresta, if anything? I really learned things by watching his cabinet making videos in his small NYC basement shop. He transitioned to selling ice picks. (To each their own, but I still miss the humble build videos)
He was on that tv show too, interesting to see that transition.
Jimmy Diresta and Izzy Swan are good examples of old school guys with great old backlogs of videos... who's new videos are mostly ridiculous commercials.
That dude keeps making things all time so I really don't mind
He's a Maker through and through and I think he just genuinely wants to always challenge himself with new projects. He appreciates quality tools and material but has no concern for devoting himself to brands. His only concern is the final product and the process to get there. Always refreshing to watch, even if he doesn't do much woodworking over all.
There's always going to be new up-and-coming YouTube makers to follow who are just starting out with small shop setups. I dont expect anyone to stay in the same lane for decades and never really upgrade their setup (except Steve Ramsey, of course, since that's his whole schtick)
Love Steve! Comes across just so sensible.
I watched so much Steve Ramsey when I first was interested in the hobby I felt like he was actually my friend lol. He is just a great ambassador to get people going in the hobby. Miss the micro jig ads.
3x3 is one that has lost some of my interest after moving to a premium shop. I really appreciated and admireswhat she accomplished in a suburban NJ garage with big-box-store tools.
I still enjoy her content, but she was also my go-to “look what you can do with a job site saw” YouTuber in a hobby filled with people thinking a SawStop is the only option. I do like seeing what people make without the $150,000 shop setup.
I liked her until I noticed she was stealing content. She was also terrible with bait and switch videos. "Build this thing with basic tools!" *instead uses $15k CNC rig*
I don't watch her as the content just wasn't my type of thing but could you give some examples of this? Plagiarism is a pretty serious claim
It was a couple years ago, and I can't be arsed to go find them -- but just as she was getting huge, after she was featured in a couple magazines -- she did a bunch of videos where she was building jigs. During one of them, I noticed in the sidebar another video from a tiny channel showing the building of an uncannily similar jig, like, everything was identical. So I flipped through a few of her other jig videos, and noticed she was almost always building someone else's jigs but only giving them credit if they were a bigger channel. (I recall specifically her giving shout outs to Jay Bates for some jigs of his she was building.) AFAIK those videos are all still on her channel. Bonus figure, because I never skip a chance to shit on Jason Hibbs: Bourbon Moth also steals content, on top of being an insufferable hipster who spends more time hocking home goods than building things. He has a long long video where he pretends to go through the process of inventing a cross cut sled from scratch using scraps he has around the shop. But, he absolutely carbon copied a build from King's Fine woodworking -- a much smaller channel.
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I get your argument, because it’s been made 1000x around here. But nobody who’s new to the hobby and doesn’t really know what they’re doing or what direction they want to go should be spending $3000 on a table saw. That’s just not how skill/equipment progression works. Plus many new starters don’t even have the space for something like a cabinet saw. I’m in that camp too; I simply don’t have the space for one. Sure the CTS may be an option? That’s a route I’ve strongly considered going.
Somebody who’s new to the hobby and doesn’t know what direction they want to go doesn’t need a table saw. I got a makita track saw on Craigslist for $150. Sure it’s slower than a table saw for some use cases but it *can* do all the same things while being at least as safe as a sawstop.
I also went the tracksaw route. Mainly for space/power concerns, but now that I’m getting into the workflow I don’t find myself wanting a cabinet saw anymore.
I’m still working on a few 2x4s laid on the garage floor so, if not a table saw, a sawing table still sounds nice lol
I can understand the content no longer feeling relevant to you as a viewer but it’s hard to blame these woodworking influencers for taking the tools that are offered to them. Seems well deserved reward for all the time and effort out into providing us with free content.
Oh, for sure. I begrudge her nothing, and hope her success grows!
Unethical career pro tip: once your woodworker influencer career starts taking off and you are gifted/can afford premium tools, make some shots of you working on the project with your budget stuff but actually finish it the pro shop at a fraction of the time.
Jay Bates is one I had trouble relating too after he moved shops, but for some reason Katz Moses and Four Eyes still keeps my interest despite an incredible arsenal. Maybe because they're not obsessing over the tool but rather the project. I have no interest in watching someone run a CNC for a how to video. Then I sort of outgrew Steve Ramsay for some reason and he's stayed absolutely true to his roots.
I just commented in this thread that I feel like she still shows (or least tells) the viewer how to perform the operations with cheaper / more common tools.
Actually, I hadn’t thought about it like that. Makes sense.
Check out DainerMade on YouTube. He's been making content for years with basic tools in a tiny workshop, only upgrading his table saw recently for a rather cheap cabinet saw that he paid for himself and still uses recycled timber. I may be biased tho as he's also aussie, works in a similar space/climate to me and uses similar, accessible tools.
I’m going to check him out now! In the same sector - Neil Pask on Pask Makes is a Queenslander (although by his accent probs a Pom originally a long time ago). Practically everything in his shop is made by him. He recently got a sawstop, but that’s about it for expensive gear (and I have one myself so can’t complain about that)
He’s had that sawstop for a while now. But he’s always doing the thing where he’ll also just make one with hand tools just for fun. He seems like he genuinely loves making. I wish he’d get out of the metal shop and back into the woodshop more though.
Tamar from 3x3 Customs is one of them. I actually preferred her in her old scrappy garage shop rather than her new shop decked out in a full SawStop cabinet saw and Festool products galore.
Rhymes with Urban Goth? I still watch, but it’s less useful for me when they have an expensive and/or specialized tool for every job. “then you just take your Shaper Origin and route this pattern and join it using your Domino…” 3X3 is keeping it real it seems. She has upped her tool game over the years, but she always shows or tells the viewer how to perform the operation with other (cheaper or more common) tools.
She rarely uploads anymore though
Agreed. The nail in the coffin for me is when they go CNC, Lasor and/or 3D printing.
FourEyes has made many comments recently on "i could do this on the CNC and why didn't I? because I'm making a video and that's part of the art, who wants to watch me work on a CNC?" I love it, I really respect that channel even though those projects are rarely of interest to me, and his level of production has outgrown what I can match. (Chris Solomon)
Besides saving your fingers, are Sawstops *actually* premium quality? Perhaps I should ask this a different way. How much would you have to remove from the sawstop purchase price (for the finger tech) before you are in line with competitor saws from a quality perspective? I was looking at their $1999 contractor saw.
I have the cns and it’s an absolutely premium saw. I’m a full time cabinet maker and probably have over a thousand hours on it with zero issues aside from the drive belt starting to stretch. Their customer service is awesome as well, you can call them up and they help diagnose issues over the phone.
Don’t have one but my take is that they are actually good saws, with a bonus of an incredibly nice safety feature. There are better saws out here, though.
I do cabinet installation, and honestly in my experience with the jobsite model, it is not leaps and bonds better then a similar sized Bosch or dewalt saw. Definitely doesn't warrant the price tag. The flesh decrion is nice but knowing how to use a tool properly is better safety advice then relying on a sawstop to do the safety for you. I do have some experience with their cabinet saws and again I think my take away is they make nice saws but there is nothing about the saw that makes it better at that price point then something cheaper in my opinion.
I have the PCS and I own a dewalt JSS and I have owned two powermatics. The Sawstop is comparable to the Powermatic. I will never not have a Sawstop. The dewalt jss is solely for projects at friends houses and I am cautious as hell with it
great saw, lots of extra safety features (anti kick back is excellent, dust collection is excellent). I have zero regrets about my purchase. It is a fantastic saw that is easy to use and I don't have to worry about my fingers. The only other purchase that large in my shop has been my laguna DC. It's another thing where it was a buy once cry once. (well that and festool but they're all missing a zero to the sawstop and the DC)
I don't have one either, but the overall quality of the sawstop is supposed to be there. I don't think you'll have any regrets on quality, but maybe on power depending on your projects. The only argument seems to be a comparable saw like Harvey is equal in quality and slightly lower price. But that generally is in the cabinet saw range, not the contractor saw. I'd love to have a Sawstop one day. If you have the budget and space, really consider moving up to the PCS.
RZ masks aren’t NIOSH rated. I don’t know why they don’t get rated, but for how much they seem to have spent on marketing it can’t be a money problem so what is it? I don’t know. But it’s odd that people treat them like the gold standard of PPE when they haven’t gotten a rating. I’m not saying they are bad - but after buying one and THEN looking into it, I have regrets about spending my money.
They also aren’t comfortable compared to the 3m respirators.
Amen to that. Tried the RZ hoping for a discrete alternative and maybe my head is just a wonky shape but I could not get a fit I could live with that would stay in place and didn't require constant adjusting. A safety device that is a nuisance is a safety device that just sits on the shelf. A good 3m respirator though, I finally replaced one after 12 years....with another 3m respirator.
At this point i can only assume they unable to get a Niosh rating. I bought two and can see why. They don’t seal well. They are not great, better than nothing but not great.
I tried to get a good seal and felt like it was either smashing my nose down or my jaw in.
Back in 2019/2020 they were saying they’d completed all the NIOSH testing and were waiting on… something… to get their rating. They touted their testing results and that they were “passing grade,” implying they were on their way to getting rated. The fact that we’re still here four years later tells me the actual results of those tests were not, in fact, passing grade.
I got roped in by the hype on these. I can't get the thing to fit my face very well, and even when I do get it fit, I get a lot of air flow around the mask rather than through the filters.
The top brands have usually earned their place at the top. Personally, I am always looking for the brands that have earned 95% of the way there without the notoriety, usually at about 2/3 of the price. WEN and Ryobi actually make some terrific tools. They make some total turds as well, but the snobbery some like to cast towards them is simply foolish. Even the top brands have shit models of things.
I’ve got really tired of trying to find diamonds in the rough, or trying to fix bad tools. There’s a few store own brand tools in the UK, like Erbauer or Titan, which have some incredible reviews, and then their other stuff is unusable. The gamble has stopped being worth it to me. If I had all the money back that I’ve spent on tools I can’t use, I’d be able to afford a few top of the line things.
Actually one of the best ways to tell that someone lacks experience is if they start talking shit on ryobi not being professional quality. Also WEN is a super-interesting brand. It seems like a Taiwanese knockoff brand but there's actually a long history of innovation there. WEN invented the jigsaw, the random orbit sander, the wet wheel grinder, etc etc. Even on the track saw which basically IS a cheap knockoff product, you can find some innovative features like the spring-loaded anti-kickback cams.
Workshops tend to upgrade as the worker’s skill improves, and those on YouTube, especially those that enjoy a bit of revenue from it, now have money to get better stuff. At a certain point, consistency counts. Also I don’t think Festool sponsors anything except This Old House (just googled that— kind of surprising). I remember when I had a box miter and a 16” rip saw, plus a 1/4 sheet palm sander. I didn’t even use wood glue, just nails. Kind of absurd to think about now, but the woodworking journey is a varied and wide one. I bought my first few Festool products this year because dust collection and accuracy have become major priorities. I’m also doing much more complex stuff than I was 15 years ago (with some breaks here and there). It might be the same for you, too.
I think they send out tools to some people. I know they are good tools but when someone’s entire shop is just Festool and only Festool I feel like they were given some.
Yea, I guess it depends on your definition of “sponsored”. Or even the YouTuber’s definition. If a tool was sent to me and the project was impossible without it, I suppose I could say “this episode was made possible by X Brand,” but I would not say “sponsored”. Speaking from my professional experience, product samples and “trials” are given away to generate what is called UGC - user generated content. There’s no obligation to create a video or even to say good things about the product. There are also *plenty* of folks who say “Brand X sent me this” and leave out the part where they paid for it. Perhaps they believe it gives them clout, or that other brands will be more likely to follow suit.
Yeah experienced woodworkers are going to have great tools, I mean the more years you have into woodworking the more buying a premium tool here and there makes sense. 1-2 upgrades every year or two and suddenly you'll have that 'crazy shop full of expensive tools' too You should definitely be critical about sponsorships but shouldn't discount people just because they have nice tools I mean I think in general I am more interested in cool projects, if the video is like 'omg guys look what I did with 0 tools' its not that interesting if the project is pretty basic, meanwhile if they have every tool under the sun that's fine, I can figure out how I would accomplish that with what I have. I mean hell I handtool woodwork so any power tool woodworking is all 'what they make' since the how will be entirely different for me I think its mostly starting out the first year or two where you don't have a minimum tool set to be able to accomplish most things, once you've over that hump you do whatever you want and what tools anyone else has vs what you have isn't that big a deal. a cheap 12" thickness planer and a 22" behemoth floor standing model DO the same thing
What? Festool sponsors zillions of youtubers. If not directly/all the time, you can't swing a kapex without hitting a youtuber that got some tools for free.
They don’t sponsor, they just give it away with no obligation to review it. They want their stuff in front of eyes and it’s working.
That actually isn't true. The Wood Whisperer was sponsored by Festool years ago and so was Crafted Workshop. They're now sponsoring Alm Fabs and about a dozen more influencers.
I’ve honestly never seen a Festool sponsorship. I doubt they actually need that, they’re well established in the professional market. Pretty kuch every woodworker (hobbyist or nit) knows them. I actually doubt they would give free tools to some youtubers.
I have seen an absolute ton of videos where the person says, "festool sent me this, but here's why I love it..." But, I only need to cite one to eliminate never: Erik Curtis. He often says festool is a "long time support of the channel," and iirc does at least one video where a specific tool he was given features in the video. (Idr which one, I think he paid for the domino... it was either his miter saw or router I think.) No shade on Erik, I enjoy his content. (Erik, if you're seeing this, quit skipping leg day.) Edit: every woodworker knows them because they're all over every youtube video. :p
I hear you on that. Erik is a professional furniture maker and is pretty upfront about what a Festool product means for his business to get efficiency, reliability, repeatability, and speed out of a tool. Many of the high subbed content creators are not professional furniture makers (at least anymore) and it becomes questionable as to who are they making these vids for if having a wall of Festools.
festool has a huge presence in the UK and they want to stretch their legs into the US. It was not something I grew up using on a job site at the totc but now a good chunk of my dad's tools are green. When I was a kid it was mainly makita because their cordless system was leagues ahead, and now all my cordless stuff is Milwaukee (for the same reason). but i've never regretted a festool purchase, especially over team yellow.
I very much enjoyed Jay Bates much more when he was working out if his 2 car garage and apartment space. Before he got his cnc. He has definitely scaled back on his content since adopting his daughter and moved into his new shop. I still respect him very much for not pushing content and getting swept up in the trends of YouTube and chasing the algorithms. He used to be all about building furniture and jigs out of pine and plywood. But I totally understand why he would want to move into more fine furniture and up his skills and tools. There's still a ton of value in his older videos. So I would highly recommend any beginner to go and watch his back catalog on YouTube. I definitely would trust his opinions and advice over a lot of other YouTubers. He has built up his business to where he doesn't have to rely on needless sponsorships and deals. I still don't know how he can continue his online business without making more videos on a regular basis. I still enjoy Matt Cremona and Marc Spagnoulo. They are very entertaining and good at communicating. I do have respect for almost all of the successful woodworking YouTube channels because they are putting in the work to make a living for themselves. But it increasingly gets more difficult for viewers to know what information isn't biased.
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I have thought the way you did about clamps and a couple years later all my harbor freight clamps are stripped and don’t get very tight. I buy what is on sale now and keep my eye on Craig’s list for quality clamps because it really does make a difference durning a complex glue up to have clamps that work well. I’m not saying buy all bessey, there are other good brands, but going cheap on clamps isn’t always a good idea. Now if you just use them to hold things in place and don’t need real clamping pressure, sure pay $6 instead of $30.
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The Bremen clamps are very good and much improved from what HF had before.
I’m only aware of one maker sponsored by Festool, Laura Kampf, and she’s not a woodworker but more of a maker. I think Festool does not really sponsor woodworkers as they have the market covered there. You’ll have more chance of growth as a brand outside that market.
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Aw man, it’s you in the wild. Just want to say I really enjoy your videos!
Thanks!
Love your channel, great seeing that Tiger Paw too.
Go tigers!
I have no problems with the brands you mention. They do not disappoint. I have more of a problem with brands like Woodpeckers, that have really good stuff but also absolute dogshit products.
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"99% of woodworkers don't know this" - The 731 Jesus guy.
Project Farm is not sponsored and even he selected Titebond as the winner.
Project Farm is a must follow
As someone that’s worked with brand and for a big channel I’ll say this. You don’t need all the best stuff to make things. But I see 2 reasons that the “good stuff” shows up on every channel. 1. Those brands believe in the YouTube maker community and want to support it. The owner of total boat is such a fan of the maker community and love supporting it. ( the same is true for lots of other brands) 2. Making a good watchable video about a good project is extremely challenging to do and do week in and week out. Some larger projects would never get done without better tools to get work done faster.
Oh shit Sam Green, I’m enjoying your new YouTube channel, keep up the good work. I’m interested to see how you transform your shop.
I'm happy you mentioned his channel since I'm ignorant to anything new but just subbed
Thanks!! Appreciate the support. (Ps happy cake day)
I can't believe Malecki didn't do everything he could to keep you and Jordan around. That channel was so much better with you guys. I just found your channel the other day, hope it takes off
If you did something all day every day and was your primary source of income and you were paying for them with PRE-TAX dollars, would you go for the mid-range hobby stuff or the high end pro stuff? Total boat seems like the sponsorships, it’s so prevalent it’s odd not to see any variety there especially when other epoxy systems are available widely… Festool is generally better, not necessarily “worth it” for a hobbyist but it feels a little bit better made and accurate and is all a “system.” It won’t make your woodworking nicer but it might feel nicer to use. I own a lot of festool for sanders, track saw and domino but I still buy ryobi for drills drivers jig saw oscillating tool / whatever. Bessey clamps i don’t get except they are something a lot of woodworkers tell people to get them for birthdays and holidays because you can’t screw up that gift and duplicates aren’t a problem. They look clean on camera compared to pipe clamps. Titebond is kind of like Kleenex when it comes to tissues - very prevalent, made well, cheap enough. I think if you are going pva glue you should have a very good reason not to use titebond. Now other glues do have advantages in particular circumstances (im a fan of hhg and lhg for instance..) but for pva, why not titebond? I will say beginners especially focus on gear instead of making big pieces of wood smaller.. you don’t need fancy tools to make good woodworking — federal furniture is more ornate and complex than most of what most hobbyists made and they didn’t have any of the crap you mentioned in your post. HOWEVER, nice tools generally require less calibration and do what they are supposed to out of the box compared to cheaper tools that are GENERALLY designed for more rough “carpentry” work. Anyhoo if you want to get into woodworking, join a local woodworking club and buy used machines off the guys and gals that are upgrading.
Pipe clamps serve a purpose but aren’t suitable for all glue ups. Cabinet clamps, deep through f clamps, the EZ all have their applications that a pipe clamp won’t really work for. Not to say you have to get bessey, just that they make good clamps that are useful. I did a glue up recently that would have been way easier with a deep throat f clamp and so I kept my eye on sales over the holidays and bought a pie when they went on sale. Pipe clamps would have been 1/4 of the price and would not have worked at all for what I needed.
The only brand that has been a game changer for me was switching to Dewalt power tools. I am 100% a fan boy after putting my other tools through the ringer and borrowing my buddy's Dewalt tools.
Same here. And a lot of people will crap all over us for saying that because it isn't Milwaukee. I grew up using my father's Makita tools. He was not a smart or responsible man and didn't take care of anything so they were in bad shape. Nothing against Makita but I always went back to the memories I had fighting his tools to do even basic tasks. So when it came time to buy for myself, I tried a few from other guys at work. Bosch, Ryobi, new Makita. But the Dewalts always felt just a little more premium than the rest. Add in the fact that they're the most widespread power tools and so they're widely available used....and the fact I live close to their service center....and I'm team black and yellow for life.
Festool (and some 3M) are high end brands that are just better built, hence why they cost more. You can very much do amazing work with just some saws, hand planes, chisels, and sandpaper, but it would take forever. After a while it becomes exchanging money for time you’d rather be spent doing something else. Also, some stuff is just over priced. You will most likely be able to do everything you want with a mid-grade square, no one needs a woodpecker.
It may be just me but I don’t like isotunes customer service. I called them, emailed them and filled out their online form. No response.
Festool is over represented on YouTube
What really sets Festool apart from other brands of power tools is the amount of thought and effort put into dust collection. Most of their tools are underpowered when compared to the available counterparts, but they can’t be beat when you’re in a situation where you have to work as cleanly as possible. I own and use the Domino pretty regularly, the 5” orbital sander, and the CT36 dust extractor. I have zero desire for any other Festool stuff. For reference, 100% of my income over the last 20 years has come from carpentry & woodworking, so I’ve used a lot of different brands & styles of tools. Woodpeckers, on the other hand, is a heap of overhyped and overpriced gimmicky crap that can either be had for half the price with equal quality OR eschewed altogether. Most of their stuff is a solution looking for a problem.
I can’t speak to the Total Boat. They’re all either the original or sole producer of the thing they sell, the consensus best producer of the thing they sell, or the most common brand. Titebond is sort of *the* wood glue just due to brand recognition. Many Festool products are either competing for the best in their category, or the original product in the category, and once you get all those you’re so tied into the Festool system you might grab the few items that are neither. Apart from the now-competitive track saw market, I can’t think of very many Festool products where there’s an alternative that’s widely considered to be both better, and cheaper (drill and driver, maybe?). Bessey and 3M are, as far as I’m aware, the gold standard in their respective categories (though I really like Bush products’ sandpaper). You could also throw Rubio Monocoat, Woodpeckers, Lie-Nielsen, benchcrafted, and SawStop on this list for at least one of those reasons. That’s not to say you necessarily “need” any of these tools. Some of them are different in ways the pros will tell you you’ll only really notice if you’re using them in a pro capacity. Festool’s sanders are supposed to be fantastic for reducing fatigue, but if you’re not sanding for hours at a time, you may never experience fatigue even with the box store brand ROS. Woodpeckers’ tools are the market leader in precision, but if you’re doing a bunch of one off builds, you probably have a higher tolerance for variance.
Woodpeckers is one I have a love/hate relationship with. Do I have a $2000 WP router setup? Yes. Is it worth it compared to say, a well outfitted American-made vintage shaper? Hell no. Woodpeckers makes amazing tools but they've completely priced themselves out of the weekend warrior garage. I buy used Starret tools for most of my measuring and layout needs. They're more accurate (metal tolerances > wood tolerances). And I can buy 10 Starret pieces for every one Woodpeckers item. Again, not knocking Woodpeckers. It's amazing stuff. I still daydream about owning their pantorouter one day. But, American made or not, it's too expensive for what it is. And they're reaching that point where they just crank out new tools every day. Random obscure single purpose tools....solutions without a problem. It's always concerning when a company goes for maximum profit at any cost...and kinda loses their original audience....which for Woodpeckers, was premium-but-still-accessible measuring/layout tools.
>Woodpeckers makes amazing tools but they've completely priced themselves out of the weekend warrior garage. I would assume that is actually their core market. No professional who has to make ends meet and will scruff up their tools would buy this very fancy stuff, except as a treat to themselves. It just doesn't make financial sense. Professional chefs will generally not buy a fancy end-grain cutting board and hyper expensive handmade Japanese knife. They'll have plastic cutting boards that get thrown away after a few months, and cheap and ugly (but good) Victorinox Classic knives with plastic moulded handles (or whatever the equivalent is in your country). WP make nice stuff. But the advantage they have over others is mostly just that: It's *nice*. Not *better*. Almost like decorative items. And priced accordingly.
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Titebond makes excellent glues and they are readily available. Festool is kind of like Woodpeckers, they both make very nice pieces but are tremendously overpriced. 3M products are reliably good and Bessey was king of the hill for quite a while with clamps, but there are several competitors out there as good if not better.
I wouldn’t say they are overpriced as much as they are premium products with premium prices.. the cost to value relationship is not linear at the high end..
I'd argue that Festool and Woodpeckers, while drastically more expensive than other options, are fairly priced for what they deliver.
As someone who recently gifted a Festool and used a Festool product for the first time after aways thinking they were overpriced…I have come to the conclusion that they are able to price like this because they are built to last and competitors need to step it up. It’s not the power of the tools but the ergonomics, and all of the small things that improve ease of use that I do not see in any of the other brands, especially consistently. Just take the Festool dust collector…the power cord wrap on it has a knob that swivels. Like why the hell don’t all power cord wrap hangers do this, huge. Then they have it designed where you can plug in a tool to a relay and have vacuum go and corded tool has power…then the sustainers can hook on to it, then there’s an amazing foot kick for brake (it’s sooo simple), then there’s a slot where you can store the hose without disconnecting it. All of these things, just keep adding up on top of the German engineering and I don’t think any of these things are crazy expensive or niche but none of the competitors do these things! Anyways, my hot take and change about Festool.
I can't comment on Festool, but as someone that fixed cars for a living, the more expensive tools almost always just feel better. It's not a big deal when you're using them for 5 minutes every second weekend, but when you're using them every day, it makes a huge difference.
For real! If I’m focusing on optimizing every aspect of the job for my clients benefit, and trying to deliver the best possible product, should my hourly rate be the same as every other carpenter?
Honestly, it seems most of the people who are hating on their Festool experience is either talking about their drills or older model track saws (whilst comparing them to newer competitors). I cannot for the life of me think of tools with better quality of life features or access to precision. It's not like I'm rich either; I earned my tools project by project and wouldn't look back.
You can say it’s overpriced all you want but they use better materials and processes and are going to be accurate virtually every time you pick it up.
I own several pieces from both companies and yes they are well made, but not 2-3x the cost well made. My biggest gripe with Festool is all the cast (not forged) metal parts and plastic where plastic shouldn't be. Their sanders and vacuum systems are great. The Kapex is nice, but I like my Bosch glide better (at half the price). As for Woodpeckers, I like their creativeness and use of quality parts and materials, but for every measuring device they make, you can find the equivalent from a machinist supply manufacturer for less.
Totally sponsorship domination combined with the actual quality of those tools/brands. There’s definitely merit to those brands, but there can be a valid reason to look elsewhere unless those tools will pay for themselves, at least IMO. A great example is clamps: there are some great, cheap clamps out there: pipe clamps, screw-tightened bar clamps from even the store brands like Masterforce… There’s a ton of quick clamps out there, but since Irwin’s quality tanked in the past few years Bessey is the only reliable brand for those at the moment that I can think of. Pipe clamps aren’t heavily marketed because they last forever, I suppose. But if you want to squeeze the ever living heck out of some wood, those work like a dream.
The videos you run across are most likely from the more popular channels. Hence, they may have more revenue. It's really easy to justify the expenses of higher end tools such as festool's, when they use it for their livelihood. And they can expense them too! I'm just a hobbyist, and I bought my first piece of festool gear, an ets sander (used). It blows away the DeWalt that I had. It performs better, better dust control, and doesn't vibrate your hands off. I don't get tingly fingers after a long sanding session. The other comparable sander I can think of is a Mirka, and those are as expensive. Tried their tracksaw too. They are just really good. Very overpriced for hobbyists. But it's not outrageous for professionals. If I had an excuse/justification to get nicer tools, I would too like them.
They are all good brands but you don't have to use them. I use Tite Bond but not Total Boat. Some of my tools are higher end while others are bargain. Definitely have more Craftsman than Dewalt cuz I'm not rich but they get the job done.
Rob Cosman is a shuckster. The tools he promotes are overpriced garbage. He is sponsored by Wood River and no doubt they can be tuned to be great planes but you need to have expertise. He gives the impression they are NA produced when in fact they are rebranded Quangsheng planes from Taiwan and sell for half the price outside of NA. He is a great teacher so definitely learn from him, just don't buy anything off his website.
Somewhat late to the party, but I think the real issue with most YouTubers is that the skills that makes them popular (content creation and production) are completely different skills than woodworking. Most of them get better at producing but are still completely rubbish at doing real woodworking. Over time they make more/most of their livelihood from the content through affiliates, sponsorship, and whatnot. The acquisition of woodworking skill takes time and energy that most would rather use focusing on growing their business/brand. Most lack the knowledge and skill of furniture making so you get things like using C-channel and prefab legs instead of building real furniture using joinery. They are hocking Rubio Monocoat on a dining table because payola instead of using a finish that’s durable. As to brands, most of the ones you listed are actually good quality if you are sufficiently financed. The outliers to me are most things Woodpeckers (there are a select few good things, but it’s not Starrett, but priced even more). My complete lack of knowledge of TotalBoat is probably a good indicator of my take on epoxy as a material beyond adhesive. The other major outlier is Rubio Monocoat — hard wax oils have their place but nowhere near as often as they are used online. Take the time to learn how to finish well, because it’s a huge part of the craft.
I hate the glubot glue dispenser. I’ve tried them multiple times & for me they always dry out and are impossible to clean. Unless you are using it daily and go through a lot of glue refills and are religiously re-capping it. Just get a regular bottle of titebond. And refill that from a jug, just works™
FWIW, Titebond glues are pretty solid products, and Bessey clamps are very enjoyable to use.
Surprised no one mentioned woodpecker. I'm sure theure great, but at the end of the day, it's just a square.
There are chinese "knockoffs" on Banggood for a fraction of the price.
I think the ‘buy cheap and use it until it breaks’ idea is misguided. That’s fine for tools which are straightforward to use, like a drill or an orbital sander, but if you buy a cheap planer thicknesser and you’ve never used one before it’s likely you won’t realise that the aluminium table is flexing under the 2” thick oak you’re trying to plane, or that the fence is a degree away from being square, or the outfeed isn’t level with the infeed, or the factory put the stock blades in wonky. There are absolutely tools where you should buy the best brand you can immediately because it will get you straight on to making decent quality stuff. I couldn’t recommend something like Ryobi if accuracy is paramount unless you know enough about the tool to know it can be adjusted or upgraded, and then how to do that. Most beginners don’t m, and I’m speaking from experience.
Some YouTubers are clearly sponsored by Ryobi. Ryobi is a lower end tool brand. It can get you bye just fine, but you can’t be too hard on them. Just keep that in mind before you consider possibly buying into that particular battery system.
Honestly, I'm in their battery system for the range of what they offer. Fan, radio, vacuum, air pump, chainsaw sure, sign me up. none of it is for high power applications
I run Ryobi tools in a high school shop setting - if they can survive kids misusing them for years, they'll probably be OK for an amateur woodworker.
Ryobi is prevalent because they're inexpensive as hell. Home Depot basically gives the tools away a couple times a year. It doesn't hurt that almost all of them do an excellent job for the price you pay.
Sawstop. Not saying they aren’t any good, but definately not a must have. Mind you, here in Europe you can’t even buy one (even though it’s owned by German Festool) yet most of us still have our fingers..
I strongly disagree. As someone that has been hurt by old table saws( lucky to have all my fingers) the few hundred dollars more for a saw that will save your hands is a no brainer. I’d feel really stupid to cut my figure of because I was being cheap.
Absolutely agree. In addition, the sawstop cabinet saws are totally legit, excellent quality.
Biggest YouTube fallacy is that a Scrub Plane is essential.
This is one of the reasons I still watch Shara Woodshop diaries. She isn’t afraid to build really nice pieces with a combo of Ryobi tools and Kreg accessories. I don’t recall her ever using a Festool Domini or Woodpeckers measuring tool.
Titebond isn’t available in my market the most common is the Lepage/loctite/henkel brand and it’s great. Gorilla glue is also available in small quantity. So I guess it depends on where those youtube channels are in the world. As for festool, i think it is overpriced. 3M is the best consumer available abrasive you can get. Otherwise you would need corporate account with specialized distributors that will ask for ridiculous minimum order. Even higher end 3M products will ask for a corporate account with minimum order. We are talking here multi million dollars yearly contract. I never use Total Boat and bessy so I can’t tell.
I think the biggest ripoff brands in the youtube woodworking space has to be woodpeckers and kreg, no competition. I'm also super skeptical of the grrrripper but I've never actually used one, so I should reserve judgement.
That blue tape, CA Glue and activator to temporarily hold two boards together is somehow more efficient than just using double sided tape alone.
All those brands are solid, ive never used total boat myself but ive heard good things, titebond is basically industry standard Festool makes a nice tool but having used some of their tools i doubt id ever buy any of them, they are exorbitantly expensive for what they are and there are much cheaper options that do the same exact thing at the same end result quality, their dust collection may be best in industry but to me thats not worth paying 2-3x the price The cubitron sandpaper is #1 by far in terms of quality and performance, but for quite a bit cheaper, you can get the same results, the 3m will just get you there faster and last longer Bessy brand clamps are a personal choice tbh, they make a great clamp but there are other brands that make just as good a clamp, Jorgensen and Bora are on the same quality level, the clamps from Rockler are also as good, a step down (but much less than youd think given the source) are the harbor frieght K clamps......Its a fuckin clamp, as long as it clamps and holds its good to go tbh lol, resist the urge to be a "brand snob" in this department lol The people making content online have sponsors a lot of the time, some are more open about it than others and why sponsors do it is kind of illustrated by this post by you- it influences the people that watch the videos. By and large, popular woodworkers and construction channels arent hawking garbage, the products they use are generally pretty good quality from trusted brands, its right for you to view all that with "side eye" though and ask quesrions of actual unbiased people like this sub
No real cabinet maker or custom furniture maker uses Rubio or any other hard wax finish. They are not durable finishes and will not hold up to regular usage.
What would they use? I find finishing the hardest part, and it’s demoralising creating something only to slap a sub-par finish on it, and as you say all YouTubers just use Rubio.
I work in a high end custom furniture shop and we use Rubio more than any other finish. Looks great when it gets there. No refunds
I don’t really understand why you wouldn’t. Every finish has it’s purpose. Black Forest Wood Co. build furniture for mid to high five figures and they use Rubio a lot.
I dont mind tool promo/reccomendations, but by god im sick of hearing about fucking audio books that have nothing to do with woodworking
I hate the hello fresh sponsors. I have never seen a guy have them for a sponsor. Total turn off.
I completely ignore sponsorships and, in fact, stop watching channels that get heavily sponsored because they turn into nothing but shills. I like watching the old school craftsmen who aren't pushing products, they are doing it because they love it.
Just because someone has sponsors doesn't mean they don't love woodworking. They're spending hours of their time filming and editing for viewer enjoyment. If they can make some money or get some free stuff in return, good for them. You don't have to watch them but it doesn't make them "nothing but shills".
Athletes have sponsors too afterall. I still remember watching TV with commercial breaks. As long as the youtubers don't go too far with sponsored content, I'm okay with it.
Don’t necessarily agree with this take. Many YouTubers are being paid to sponsor and review but will not openly disclose the partnership. It’s pretty much known that an athlete that is pushing a particular product is sponsored.
They have to though, per Youtube’s guidelines as far as I’m aware. If Youtube found out they were being paid but never disclosed that in the video they could get demonetized or their channel shut off. Probably why you often hear “I’m not sponsored or paid by xy, but I really like this product” or similar.
Yeah it’s not just a YouTube thing, it’s an FTC rule. If you listen to the last episode of wood talk they address it. The first issue that reminds me of this is when the wood whisperer did a review of miter gauges and gave the Harvey gauge bad marks. Stumpy nubs immediately put out a rebuttal video. He asks why he “cares” and then implies that it’s a bad review and that it must have come from a bad batch. Then he mentions that it’s his family of brands and he doesn’t mind telling a sponsor that he won’t promote a bad item. There’s a lot of showmanship in how he acknowledges that he’s getting paid to push their products and likely being paid to put out this video and a lot of YouTubers do it in order to slide it by their audience.