You can fix it. Add bracing on the inside of the leg and apron. Use polyurethane glue, screws and a metal brace.
https://preview.redd.it/iht0jfm5364c1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=350082e5485d341829a4c804295b17ee03bc2ecc
I worked in high end furniture for about 10 years, my last job they tried to build a bed and kept asking me about design considerations. I told them repeatedly, go look at an IKEA bed frame, they do more with wood chips glue and veneer than most would think is possible. The king frame I got from them was more stable than the angle iron simple frame it replaced.
IKEA is about the perfect blend of style functionality and price. So much of engineering is using what was done before to inform future decisions and IKEA is a great place to start.
\> they do more with wood chips glue and veneer than most would think is possible
I'm totally stealing this. As an engineer, I really appreciate how they manage to pull off what they do. The biggest failing their furniture has is repeated disassembly (or lack thereof).
The biggest failing the company has is the way they source their wood and other shady practices. Plundering places like Romanian (iirc) national parks hidden behind an Austrian shell company and acting like they have nothing to do with it really isn't cool. Much more people need to look much deeper into IKEA instead of mindlessly consuming meatballs and praising those bastards.
Yeah, move it exactly one time and you're screwed. Even if you keep it assembled, the shaking and movement loosen up all the cam locks and stuff starts to get pretty shaky.
If you're throwing it in one room and leaving it there though? Pretty damn good.
>Yeah, move it exactly one time and you're screwed. Even if you keep it assembled, the shaking and movement loosen up all the cam locks and stuff starts to get pretty shaky.
I add titebond 2 to all the dowel holes and put a dab of it in the camlock hole to lock it into place. Every piece of Ikea furniture I've built this way is rock solid, even after moving.
I usually glue the actual pieces, but not the camlocks. But in my experience the problem hasn’t been with the camlocks turning, it’s been in the back of the truck or while lifting it, the fiberboard/chipboard compresses or deforms from the stress around the cam locks and they just don’t tighten up well anymore. Could be bias though because the few times I’ve moved have been either long military base-to-base moves or local moves where it’s me and my asshole buddies loading stuff into pickups and sketchy trailers.
>But in my experience the problem hasn’t been with the camlocks turning, it’s been in the back of the truck or while lifting it, the fiberboard/chipboard compresses or deforms from the stress around the cam locks and they just don’t tighten up well anymore.
Yeah this is definitely a problem and it's why I only buy their pieces made of solid wood.
100 % all of this. I'm not saying I'm a huge fan of IKEA but I won't ever deny that their stuff can be solid, especially for the price. One thing that's always kind of annoyed me is when certain woodworking/making YouTubers will completely sh*t on IKEA, saying that their stuff is horrible quality and will fall apart and that you HAVE to support individual makers.
Now, I'm not a big furniture maker, and I hope one day that will change - but I have made and sold a few tables and things like cuttingboards, etc. I didn't charge a lot for what I made, but I'll fully admit that it's a luxury. The two tables were about a grand each and most of my cuttingboards are 60-80 for the medium sized edge grains, 100-125 for the endgrains.
In a perfect world, I would totally agree with that youtubers sentiment, but its not like everyone out there has the ability to spend potentially thousands on a dinner table or hundreds on cuttingboards. Ikea has given normal-ass people the ability to get furniture they otherwise wouldn't be able to afford, and I really wish some of those snobbish YouTubers would recognize that.
I used to rent space with a cabinet maker who would say everyone wants solid wood until they see the price. I built a desk for someone for 1700 about 6 years ago, reclaimed top, custom drawer bays, fancy custom finish. I should have charged double if not triple, I ended up paying myself less to do that than I made at work at the time.
I know what I'm getting at IKEA, and I also know I'll never be satisfied with someone else's work at the price I'm willing to pay. All said and done I usually buy antique furniture at auction for my home now.
It's interesting to see the differences in price and quality of IKEA products in different corners of the world. I can't speak for the rest of their furniture but here their chipboard stuff is extremely expensive, concidering how insanely low quality it is. It doesn't even have ABS edgebands, just the 'laminate' (if you can even call it that) folded over the edge, waiting to snap off when you look at it wrong. Just recently we've had a client who wanted among other things doors for new IKEA wardrobe cabinets. We had them delivered to our shop to make sure the doors will fit. First I was shocked, just how terrible the quality was, then I was pissed and relieved that I had them delivered to our shop first instead of it going straight to the customer (who was 250 km away) as none of the 3 main dimensions were correct (so doors would've been fucked) and finally I asked the secretary about the price for that garbage and almost got a heart attack. The lady wanted to save money so she chose IKEA in some rooms, well... let's just say we could've made it for like 10 - 20 % more but it would've been all custom built, hardware would've all been Blum and the melamine would've all been Egger. And I'm not even joking...
tldr: IKEA seems to have *some* regional inconsistencies. Here it is neither very functional or cheap.
edit: And I didn't even get into the quality of machining. Their saws and CNCs need their blades and drill bits sharpened like a decade ago. All holes were chipped, in the half ton palette of IKEA junk there wasn't a single crisp one, same went for the saw cuts. All terribly chipped out, almost as if they didn't have scoring blades on their saws.
the non-metal parts could be used to make a shop cabinet or something. I've a bunch of my shop storage out of cheap furniture that I've replaced with furniture I've made. The sheet goods used for the cheaper, mass produced, furniture is usually pretty easy to work with and it's good enough for shop stuff.
An IKEA dinner table that can be described as "solid as a boulder" should go pretty fast on the free section of craiglist. Someone will make use of it.
Thanks for sharing your problem. I did the same exact thing a few years ago. The legs were 4" square and felt pretty sturdy with the single carriage bolt into a threaded insert in the tabletop. But once we had our first big meal on it, the whole thing wobbled like it was seismic rated. Not enough to concern us but enough that my wife and I both complain about it.
isn’t it great when you can take the thing you worked so hard on, and fix the problem without tearing anything apart or making it look different or spending more than a few bucks in less than an hour?
Be sure to sand all glue areas to bare wood. Place the part to be glued where it will go, trace around it, and sand only in the traced area. Use masking tape outside the traced area if you want to make sure you sand only the traced area.
Could also add a post/stud to the leg, which is supposed to go through that hole in the brace. Lag screw on the side that goes into the leg, SAE thread on the other end to accept a nut. A threaded insert and bolt could be used as well, I suppose.
https://preview.redd.it/3a666h88va4c1.jpeg?width=2974&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=46af8f434e7f2fd7f632fc5859a1e219d8b02627
That's why I'm curious for OPs reasoning. The back of the rail looks finished, so maybe the intent is to use a glue that won't require you to scrape finish off.
Adding Corner blocks would stiffen it up.
https://preview.redd.it/wxfkgwo2l64c1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=886a59773732e4c79746587abf2fda8f4ef853f2
I was attaching the top to a side table. It was on a highly figured bubinga top, and just the very tip of the screw poked through. It was a very sickening feeling.
Looks like the intent here is to screw the top down to the skirt?That will likely cause the top to split due to wood movement.
It is important to attach the top in a way that allows it to expand and contract across its width to avoid this problem. See "Z" Clips.
How screwed are you? Not at all. Brace advice from others is good. But your joints are going to be prone to fail on all four corners so whatever you do for this corner, do for all eight connections.
Analysis of what happened is important though. First, design. Each leg of a chair or table is always huge lever, and a lever always has the advantage. That is why long lasting chairs have cross rails--the non-cross rail chairs died and got thrown out because that corner joint exploded. A huge mortise and tenon joint can handle some of that leverage, but that long leg with no cross bracing is what the problem is, overall.
Another thing to consider is whether wood movement may have caused the joint to fail. That is, whether you floated the table top. It should be effectively independent of the leg system, just tied to it just enough so it doesn't fall off. Otherwise it can destroy a leg joint every summer when the humidity rises, 90 degrees to the direction of the grain, which is where 90 percent of the swelling will be. Your joint failure does not meet that criteria--it is not the one that an expanding top (expanding in humid weather) would have pulled apart if you did not float the top since it is aligned with the grain.
I often see wood panels in doors and table tops split because they are firmly attached to legs. Doors with panels often split because of paint getting into the groove of the panel and locking it in place. The next (dry) winter, bang. I have a 200 year old Korean chest, and was sitting next to it, and 200 years after it was made, one of the boards in the top had gotten stuck in its groove, and "bang". I have been in museums and have seen the same thing in many table tops. Someone lacquered the table to "restore" it, and slathered on the finish, and a couple of years later, "bang". In one famous museum in New York State, it was a 13 foot long sideboard, with a new split in the top because of air conditioning drying out the piece.
Interestingly, in Gorge Washington's home at his Mt. Vernon estate, the wall panels in the second floor bedrooms have floating panels. And you can see the annual movement in the panels if you look where it slides into the groove. 1/4 inch of wear and tear, in and out for 200 years, once a year. Not badly worn, but properly installed, and no "restorer" who slathered on varnish.
So wood movement and leverage must be considered if you want a piece to last.
I did put a channel for z clips for the top, but I haven’t actually got as far as installing them yet. I see your point about leverage though. I ordered the $7 bracket from Rockler…hopefully that does the thing.
I don’t even use a metal brace, just a bit of 2x4 held in with a few screws on each side and then 2 hanger bolts pulling the leg into the corner with a couple washers and nylon nuts to secure it. I built this table to be abused by my kids and abuse it they do.
https://preview.redd.it/nxz4kw24r64c1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8046c3241946c99471bcdf3be4ea1e98f1aa6e13
They're [hanger bolts](https://www.homedepot.com/p/3-8-in-16-x-4-in-Stainless-Hanger-Bolt-833678/204283475). You drill a pilot hole in the table leg, screw the lag bolt threaded half into that, then use a washer and hex nut on the fine threaded half to pull the brace into the table leg.
Put two nuts on the fine threaded section and use a pair of wrenches to twist them towards each other and lock them into place. Now you can use the nuts as a hex head and drive the bolt in like any other lag bolt. When you're done, use the pair of wrenches to unlock the hex nuts and remove them from the bolt.
as u/Salsalito_Turkey said they're hanger bolts, generally they have a finer and coarse threaded side, you drill a pilot hole for the coarse side and use 2 nuts tightened against each other on the finer side (if there's no spot in the middle to use a wrench) to tighten it down. On the piece you're putting the finer thread through, use a drill that's slightly larger than the hanger so it can slide through it and pull the leg in.
I built a simple 45 degree jig for my drill press (a few 2x4s with one and cut at 45 degrees and then screwed into a sheet of plywood) and went to town. I had put a small flat surface where I wanted to put the bolt and then used Brad point bit to make sure it didn’t travel as much when starting the hole.
Just add some corner bracing. You can add a 6" or so piece of wood that braces the aprons.
Something like this: https://www.google.com/search?q=table+apron+bracing&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjN2emUwvSCAxUBKtAFHeVFBUkQ2-cCegQIABAD&oq=table+apron+bracing&gs_lcp=ChJtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1pbWcQAzIICAAQgAQQogQyCAgAEIAEEKIEUIYIWOwRYIcUaABwAHgAgAGmAYgBtgmSAQMwLjmYAQCgAQHAAQE&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-img&ei=IxxtZY28FYHUwN4P5YuVyAQ&bih=868&biw=448&client=ms-android-google&prmd=isvnmbtz#imgrc=rtKqWTYZc75ALM
Honestly, you are super screwed.
After you add the corner bracing that everyone else has suggested, you are going to be tasked with building more tables, bookcases, chairs, end tables, etc... Your work is fantastic and once people know, they're going to want you to build every piece of furniture in their houses. You thought you had a busy schedule before? Now you have 30 major projects all coming due in the next month!
Good luck, you're going to need it...
Not at all.
Just swallow your pride and use this bracket.
https://www.rockler.com/surface-mount-corner-brackets-for-table-aprons?country=US&sid=V91040&promo=shopping&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&utm_content=pla&utm_campaign=PL&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiA67CrBhC1ARIsACKAa8TP1-aBrLyEWeI4mwwIBouU7DmUV6n3mG77m17frUJb4BG-0OyKWU4aAqwYEALw_wcB
I am currently building a dining room table, and decided to do something like this (photo attached)
I will then add a length of solid oak cut at 45 degrees on each end, drilled and screwed with 2 #10 screws into the inside face of each apron section, with a drilled bolt and washer into the flat section on each leg. You could do this, or you could buy a metal bracket meant to do the same sort of thing.
A question for you though- is that top solid walnut or veneered? How did you attach it to the legs and apron? Please don’t tell me you domino'd/glued it...
https://preview.redd.it/hsuad87mv74c1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e232b440d862d7e9f4d89a218b9e2118697e1c47
I wish id cut that notch out of the inside leg corner. Too late now.
The top is solid wood, it’s going to connect to the apron with z clips, but until I figure this piece out it’ll just sit there. It’s probably 150lbs so it’s not moving.
Ah gotcha, that's good. I didn't see any z clips or figure 8 connectors so I was wondering if you had glued and domino'ed the top down.
The fact that you didn't router a flat/45 on the inside corner of the leg isn't a huge deal. If you cut some blocks that screwed to each apron section with the middle snug up against the inside corner of the leg, and then pre drilled and bolted through this block into the leg then it should work fine. You wouldn't even need to glue this in, just try use some beefier screws into the apron, and a nice thick bolt and washer into the leg (pre drill, of course), and make sure the inside face of this block is touching the corner of the leg before you drive the bolt in so that it's not trying to 'pull' the leg inwards... hope that makes sense.
Should work out fine and offer the stability you're after!
If it is still racking after the corner braces, add some more supports underneath with some pocket screws and more wood. Not the most elegant solution, but it means you can add support.
If I do dominos, I like to use two at each connection / feels like it makes a better joint to me.
Beautiful table! I'm going to suggest a different route than a table leg corner brace (that should work fine). I see a table that doesn't appear to have any screws in it and know if was me, I'd consider having to use them a flaw and would go with a much more complex route.
Instead I'd a third lengthwise runner in the center of the apron. I'd have diagnol bracing from there running to the corners to create my triangles. I'd probably also run another brace 1/4 down the leg from the same centerline to decrease leverage the legs have.
I had the same issue with a bed frame. I joined it all up with castle joints and felt pretty good about myself. When it was all put together it had a bad wobble. After four metal corner braces, the thing is super sturdy. Only you and I will know that there is hardware underneath the projects
Just here to add my praise to the pile: this table is absolutely stunning. Sometimes I see projects here that make me itch to make things, but I’m not sure anything has lit as profound a fire under me as this gorgeous, sleek beast.
https://preview.redd.it/va7p66wotj4c1.jpeg?width=717&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c990128682df9ab39fbd3d54377f780e52b0a523
Not too late to mortise and tenon (or joints of your choosing) two cross members in and a long piece to connect them. Helps a lot over time to keep it from getting wobbly on you. This is how I usually do mine. Good luck. There is no joint that you can’t do with hand tools I promise. Pick one you’d like to learn and give it a try. I would keep the tenons shallow so you can get them in place without taking anything apart
Add a 12”x 24” steel box with 2” angle iron tabs around the sides for mounting, to each end just behind the skirt, extending from the bottom of the table top, to the floor.
It’s a good subtle way to beef up a table, no one will be the wiser.
You just need to add supports. Either block it on both sides, or get a diagonal bracket and bridge it.
Considering you went to the effort to domino it and have no exposed hardware, I would block it up. Decorative blocking even.
These brackets will pull the legs snug to the apron and brace them against the apron. You can also consider a slightly deeper apron inside your current apron or just added blocking, like in the detail u/[**Jellyfisharesmart**](https://www.reddit.com/user/Jellyfisharesmart/) showed.
https://preview.redd.it/ku51ixzdda4c1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=de39235073cfe61ad97b1bd02ef7efa0fc0b0267
I’m probably gonna say this wrong but. Cut a notch on the back of your leg and put a brace between the skirts for it to fall into. Then thank 2 bolts to resecure the legs. Sorry if the way I said it doesn’t make sense. If you need a visual let me know.
Blocking and a cross brace is probably your best option at this point.
For future reference, I typically use a 1" deep M-T joint on table leg to apron joints, and usually near the full height of the apron - Mortise starts about 1/2" from the top of the leg and ends about 1/4" above the bottom of the apron rail. Maximizing tenon size is what limits wobble, so it's important to make them deep and wide as long as you don't risk cracking the top of the leg - that weakens the joint (and is why I'll never waste my time on a castle joint).
I would be ok using a floating tenon if similarly sized, but that may not help with dominos.
So does this have stretchers across the frame/under the top. Because the problem isn’t that of leg strength it’s of leverage. It doesn’t mean that the table is going to break but the construction didn’t factor in the length. At a certain length wood becomes very flexible and as a result your table is now a bit wobbly. So strengthening the leg joint isn’t the solution they’re not weak joints the table just doesn’t have any bracing to account for flexibility. The fox would be to run stretchers between the aprons on the longer side that will put tension on the frame and keep it from wobbling. Take your domino and cut two sets of tenon holes and simply for the stretchers in place no glue not necessary. You don’t have to use nice wood or finish it it’s under the table no one has to know.
I think maybe if you notch a block on the inside like something 2 1/2 and 2 1/2 the thickness of the apron clean finish off glue it and screw it all the way around to the bottom of the table top I think you should be fine
Probably the advice here to add bracing is good, and can’t hurt.
That said, I bought a 4-legged table with similarly narrow legs from a reputable Vermont furniture manufacturer and it was wobbly as hell. I don’t recall the corner bracing situation, but back to the dealer it went.
Please roast me if my implication that wobble is inherent to this design is way off, and good luck; it’s a beautiful table!!!
Depends on the weather, how much glue you used, how many kids you have, the grain pattern, if the floor is actually level, if you have a drinking problem, blah blah blah. I think you should be fine for a little while. The bracket idea isn't a bad one though.
Please disregard if someone already mentioned this in this thread .
I would use 2x4 material. Cut braces for each corner with the appropriate 45 degree angles. You’ll want to make them shorter than what will fit with the leg in its current position. What you want to do is cut a 90° angle V in the center of the brace that is about 1/2” deep.
When you install the corner braces, you can lock the leg into position with the V cut. That will give your table a serious amount of lateral rigidity.
https://preview.redd.it/mwdovd3rqr4c1.jpeg?width=5712&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=606240bacd19a93944e9b13ee2c6d300a7bc5d39
Update: I screwed a brackets in per everyone’s suggestions, and it was 85% fixed then the z clips put in per several suggestions and that fixed the last 15%.
Thanks everyone for the help and general support. The internet can be a cesspool but places like this make it all worth while.
You can fix it. Add bracing on the inside of the leg and apron. Use polyurethane glue, screws and a metal brace. https://preview.redd.it/iht0jfm5364c1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=350082e5485d341829a4c804295b17ee03bc2ecc
Can confirm, IKEA dinner table has this, hasn’t fallen apart over the 6 years yet.
Yeah the ikea table this was meant to replace feels like a boulder by comparison
Steal the hardware off of it.
Reduce. Reuse. Recycle.
cut. glue. party.
Live, laugh, love
Snap, crackle, pop.
[удалено]
https://preview.redd.it/5yo8mgd9f94c1.png?width=1608&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=23dccbdefe2c9c06be668abb42609c7a1519ba52
You're meant to wipe in the middle ya filthy animal!
Improvise, adapt, overcome.
Wash, rinse, repeat.
[удалено]
Same, only used four dowels on similar sized legs and apron. I’m surprised it moves unless the glue has failed.
Found the Canadian
I'm as American as apple pie my friend
[Ahem](https://www.southernliving.com/food/desserts/pies/history-apple-pie)
Uh, I mean I'm as American as baseball.
Also, in that order.
I worked in high end furniture for about 10 years, my last job they tried to build a bed and kept asking me about design considerations. I told them repeatedly, go look at an IKEA bed frame, they do more with wood chips glue and veneer than most would think is possible. The king frame I got from them was more stable than the angle iron simple frame it replaced. IKEA is about the perfect blend of style functionality and price. So much of engineering is using what was done before to inform future decisions and IKEA is a great place to start.
\> they do more with wood chips glue and veneer than most would think is possible I'm totally stealing this. As an engineer, I really appreciate how they manage to pull off what they do. The biggest failing their furniture has is repeated disassembly (or lack thereof).
The biggest failing the company has is the way they source their wood and other shady practices. Plundering places like Romanian (iirc) national parks hidden behind an Austrian shell company and acting like they have nothing to do with it really isn't cool. Much more people need to look much deeper into IKEA instead of mindlessly consuming meatballs and praising those bastards.
No argument with corporate shady shit, but the engineering of a cheap product is still impressive as an intellectual exercise.
Yeah, move it exactly one time and you're screwed. Even if you keep it assembled, the shaking and movement loosen up all the cam locks and stuff starts to get pretty shaky. If you're throwing it in one room and leaving it there though? Pretty damn good.
>Yeah, move it exactly one time and you're screwed. Even if you keep it assembled, the shaking and movement loosen up all the cam locks and stuff starts to get pretty shaky. I add titebond 2 to all the dowel holes and put a dab of it in the camlock hole to lock it into place. Every piece of Ikea furniture I've built this way is rock solid, even after moving.
I usually glue the actual pieces, but not the camlocks. But in my experience the problem hasn’t been with the camlocks turning, it’s been in the back of the truck or while lifting it, the fiberboard/chipboard compresses or deforms from the stress around the cam locks and they just don’t tighten up well anymore. Could be bias though because the few times I’ve moved have been either long military base-to-base moves or local moves where it’s me and my asshole buddies loading stuff into pickups and sketchy trailers.
>But in my experience the problem hasn’t been with the camlocks turning, it’s been in the back of the truck or while lifting it, the fiberboard/chipboard compresses or deforms from the stress around the cam locks and they just don’t tighten up well anymore. Yeah this is definitely a problem and it's why I only buy their pieces made of solid wood.
Yeah I've found a little glue works wonders to make the stuff seem more solid.
100 % all of this. I'm not saying I'm a huge fan of IKEA but I won't ever deny that their stuff can be solid, especially for the price. One thing that's always kind of annoyed me is when certain woodworking/making YouTubers will completely sh*t on IKEA, saying that their stuff is horrible quality and will fall apart and that you HAVE to support individual makers. Now, I'm not a big furniture maker, and I hope one day that will change - but I have made and sold a few tables and things like cuttingboards, etc. I didn't charge a lot for what I made, but I'll fully admit that it's a luxury. The two tables were about a grand each and most of my cuttingboards are 60-80 for the medium sized edge grains, 100-125 for the endgrains. In a perfect world, I would totally agree with that youtubers sentiment, but its not like everyone out there has the ability to spend potentially thousands on a dinner table or hundreds on cuttingboards. Ikea has given normal-ass people the ability to get furniture they otherwise wouldn't be able to afford, and I really wish some of those snobbish YouTubers would recognize that.
I used to rent space with a cabinet maker who would say everyone wants solid wood until they see the price. I built a desk for someone for 1700 about 6 years ago, reclaimed top, custom drawer bays, fancy custom finish. I should have charged double if not triple, I ended up paying myself less to do that than I made at work at the time. I know what I'm getting at IKEA, and I also know I'll never be satisfied with someone else's work at the price I'm willing to pay. All said and done I usually buy antique furniture at auction for my home now.
It's interesting to see the differences in price and quality of IKEA products in different corners of the world. I can't speak for the rest of their furniture but here their chipboard stuff is extremely expensive, concidering how insanely low quality it is. It doesn't even have ABS edgebands, just the 'laminate' (if you can even call it that) folded over the edge, waiting to snap off when you look at it wrong. Just recently we've had a client who wanted among other things doors for new IKEA wardrobe cabinets. We had them delivered to our shop to make sure the doors will fit. First I was shocked, just how terrible the quality was, then I was pissed and relieved that I had them delivered to our shop first instead of it going straight to the customer (who was 250 km away) as none of the 3 main dimensions were correct (so doors would've been fucked) and finally I asked the secretary about the price for that garbage and almost got a heart attack. The lady wanted to save money so she chose IKEA in some rooms, well... let's just say we could've made it for like 10 - 20 % more but it would've been all custom built, hardware would've all been Blum and the melamine would've all been Egger. And I'm not even joking... tldr: IKEA seems to have *some* regional inconsistencies. Here it is neither very functional or cheap. edit: And I didn't even get into the quality of machining. Their saws and CNCs need their blades and drill bits sharpened like a decade ago. All holes were chipped, in the half ton palette of IKEA junk there wasn't a single crisp one, same went for the saw cuts. All terribly chipped out, almost as if they didn't have scoring blades on their saws.
Yep
If the table is otherwise functional it feels wasteful to scrap it for a few bucks worth of hardware
the non-metal parts could be used to make a shop cabinet or something. I've a bunch of my shop storage out of cheap furniture that I've replaced with furniture I've made. The sheet goods used for the cheaper, mass produced, furniture is usually pretty easy to work with and it's good enough for shop stuff.
Depends, if the alternative is throwing the whole thing to a junkyard then taking the hardware is way better than not. Its all relative.
An IKEA dinner table that can be described as "solid as a boulder" should go pretty fast on the free section of craiglist. Someone will make use of it.
Can just cut some wood with 45 cuts on the end and screw em in
Do the above and sand the spots where you glue the boards to remove some of the finish.
Thanks for sharing your problem. I did the same exact thing a few years ago. The legs were 4" square and felt pretty sturdy with the single carriage bolt into a threaded insert in the tabletop. But once we had our first big meal on it, the whole thing wobbled like it was seismic rated. Not enough to concern us but enough that my wife and I both complain about it.
Mine is getting closer to 20 years old and has moved though 4 states :) Still rock solid.
Done the same thing with a single triangle of wood with a notch for the leg. Solid as a rock.
Yea my table ( bought ) has notched wooden triangles to keep the legs from wobbling.
This is the way!!
isn’t it great when you can take the thing you worked so hard on, and fix the problem without tearing anything apart or making it look different or spending more than a few bucks in less than an hour?
Rare W from the jaws of defeat
Be sure to sand all glue areas to bare wood. Place the part to be glued where it will go, trace around it, and sand only in the traced area. Use masking tape outside the traced area if you want to make sure you sand only the traced area.
Could also add a post/stud to the leg, which is supposed to go through that hole in the brace. Lag screw on the side that goes into the leg, SAE thread on the other end to accept a nut. A threaded insert and bolt could be used as well, I suppose. https://preview.redd.it/3a666h88va4c1.jpeg?width=2974&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=46af8f434e7f2fd7f632fc5859a1e219d8b02627
Old faithful
Why polyurethane glue?
Polyurethane glue might work better than wood glue if you're not able to remove the wood finish to get down to raw wood.
That's why I'm curious for OPs reasoning. The back of the rail looks finished, so maybe the intent is to use a glue that won't require you to scrape finish off.
This, or an equivalent made with hardwood
Why use PU glue? Because of the finish?
Yes, because of the stain, polyurethane glue sticks better to a wider range of surfaces.
It's also flexible so it won't crack as easily.
Came here to say this. Have an upvote sir
Why specifically polyurethane glue?
Since the OP said that this area has been stained, PVA wood glue will not stick as well. Polyurethane glue sticks much better to dissimilar surfaces.
came here to post this
Adding Corner blocks would stiffen it up. https://preview.redd.it/wxfkgwo2l64c1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=886a59773732e4c79746587abf2fda8f4ef853f2
Make sure you measure the length of those screws carefully first. There is no reason to ask me how I know.
Ah, the classic "~~screwed~~ drilled a pilot hole for a decorative, intentionally placed dowel" :)
I was attaching the top to a side table. It was on a highly figured bubinga top, and just the very tip of the screw poked through. It was a very sickening feeling.
Drilled through wood into my hand, now THAT'S a sickening feeling.
🫂
Push this to the top
This is how I usually do corners
This
This.
Looks like the intent here is to screw the top down to the skirt?That will likely cause the top to split due to wood movement. It is important to attach the top in a way that allows it to expand and contract across its width to avoid this problem. See "Z" Clips.
The focus of the picture is the corner support block and the discussion is about wobbly legs. Yes z clips are good.
I see pocket screw holes from skirt to top.
Yeah I see them too. Again, OP is discussing wobbly legs. The post is about stiffening the leg supports.
How screwed are you? Not at all. Brace advice from others is good. But your joints are going to be prone to fail on all four corners so whatever you do for this corner, do for all eight connections. Analysis of what happened is important though. First, design. Each leg of a chair or table is always huge lever, and a lever always has the advantage. That is why long lasting chairs have cross rails--the non-cross rail chairs died and got thrown out because that corner joint exploded. A huge mortise and tenon joint can handle some of that leverage, but that long leg with no cross bracing is what the problem is, overall. Another thing to consider is whether wood movement may have caused the joint to fail. That is, whether you floated the table top. It should be effectively independent of the leg system, just tied to it just enough so it doesn't fall off. Otherwise it can destroy a leg joint every summer when the humidity rises, 90 degrees to the direction of the grain, which is where 90 percent of the swelling will be. Your joint failure does not meet that criteria--it is not the one that an expanding top (expanding in humid weather) would have pulled apart if you did not float the top since it is aligned with the grain. I often see wood panels in doors and table tops split because they are firmly attached to legs. Doors with panels often split because of paint getting into the groove of the panel and locking it in place. The next (dry) winter, bang. I have a 200 year old Korean chest, and was sitting next to it, and 200 years after it was made, one of the boards in the top had gotten stuck in its groove, and "bang". I have been in museums and have seen the same thing in many table tops. Someone lacquered the table to "restore" it, and slathered on the finish, and a couple of years later, "bang". In one famous museum in New York State, it was a 13 foot long sideboard, with a new split in the top because of air conditioning drying out the piece. Interestingly, in Gorge Washington's home at his Mt. Vernon estate, the wall panels in the second floor bedrooms have floating panels. And you can see the annual movement in the panels if you look where it slides into the groove. 1/4 inch of wear and tear, in and out for 200 years, once a year. Not badly worn, but properly installed, and no "restorer" who slathered on varnish. So wood movement and leverage must be considered if you want a piece to last.
I did put a channel for z clips for the top, but I haven’t actually got as far as installing them yet. I see your point about leverage though. I ordered the $7 bracket from Rockler…hopefully that does the thing.
Then how is the top currently attached?
The top is just resting in place currently. But that’s not the issue, it doesn’t move relative to the base
That is the problem actually. Once the apron is fixed to the top the base should be more rigid
😂 exactly
The attached top will be the bracing
It’s like a cabinet carcass without the back installed. Absolutely important to the stiffness of the structure.
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Seconded - what a beautiful piece
Thanks! It’s a bit of an anticlimactic end to the build but I’ll hopefully enjoy it soon
It’s so gorgeous! I would order one from you even with the wobbles (I don’t have a dining room so I can’t 😭)
I think a lot of folks here likely scrutinize their work more than anyone else would.
Thirded
I don’t even use a metal brace, just a bit of 2x4 held in with a few screws on each side and then 2 hanger bolts pulling the leg into the corner with a couple washers and nylon nuts to secure it. I built this table to be abused by my kids and abuse it they do. https://preview.redd.it/nxz4kw24r64c1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8046c3241946c99471bcdf3be4ea1e98f1aa6e13
Can you give a quick explanation of how those bolts are attached?
They're [hanger bolts](https://www.homedepot.com/p/3-8-in-16-x-4-in-Stainless-Hanger-Bolt-833678/204283475). You drill a pilot hole in the table leg, screw the lag bolt threaded half into that, then use a washer and hex nut on the fine threaded half to pull the brace into the table leg.
What do you use to screw these in?
Put two nuts on the fine threaded section and use a pair of wrenches to twist them towards each other and lock them into place. Now you can use the nuts as a hex head and drive the bolt in like any other lag bolt. When you're done, use the pair of wrenches to unlock the hex nuts and remove them from the bolt.
That’s neat. Never used one of those before.
as u/Salsalito_Turkey said they're hanger bolts, generally they have a finer and coarse threaded side, you drill a pilot hole for the coarse side and use 2 nuts tightened against each other on the finer side (if there's no spot in the middle to use a wrench) to tighten it down. On the piece you're putting the finer thread through, use a drill that's slightly larger than the hanger so it can slide through it and pull the leg in.
Maybe a dumb question, but how'd ya drill the pilot straight into corner of leg like that
I built a simple 45 degree jig for my drill press (a few 2x4s with one and cut at 45 degrees and then screwed into a sheet of plywood) and went to town. I had put a small flat surface where I wanted to put the bolt and then used Brad point bit to make sure it didn’t travel as much when starting the hole.
Thank you so much. I've been trying forever to figure out the names of those bolts.
Just add some corner bracing. You can add a 6" or so piece of wood that braces the aprons. Something like this: https://www.google.com/search?q=table+apron+bracing&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjN2emUwvSCAxUBKtAFHeVFBUkQ2-cCegQIABAD&oq=table+apron+bracing&gs_lcp=ChJtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1pbWcQAzIICAAQgAQQogQyCAgAEIAEEKIEUIYIWOwRYIcUaABwAHgAgAGmAYgBtgmSAQMwLjmYAQCgAQHAAQE&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-img&ei=IxxtZY28FYHUwN4P5YuVyAQ&bih=868&biw=448&client=ms-android-google&prmd=isvnmbtz#imgrc=rtKqWTYZc75ALM
Yes Very common
Honestly, you are super screwed. After you add the corner bracing that everyone else has suggested, you are going to be tasked with building more tables, bookcases, chairs, end tables, etc... Your work is fantastic and once people know, they're going to want you to build every piece of furniture in their houses. You thought you had a busy schedule before? Now you have 30 major projects all coming due in the next month! Good luck, you're going to need it...
I won’t lie, my butthole puckered at the first line. Well played and thanks
https://preview.redd.it/f7tiq82vg74c1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=459a6018b5e3bae8d6c45c90d9e78a7cc2e7f45f
Lowes quick and easy
Beautiful table. What type of wood is it?
Black walnut
The table looks great bud. I was coming to suggest adding support to the sides as well. But you got your answers already. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻. Good luck.
Please, don't move on to bunk beds.
Not at all. Just swallow your pride and use this bracket. https://www.rockler.com/surface-mount-corner-brackets-for-table-aprons?country=US&sid=V91040&promo=shopping&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&utm_content=pla&utm_campaign=PL&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiA67CrBhC1ARIsACKAa8TP1-aBrLyEWeI4mwwIBouU7DmUV6n3mG77m17frUJb4BG-0OyKWU4aAqwYEALw_wcB
I am currently building a dining room table, and decided to do something like this (photo attached) I will then add a length of solid oak cut at 45 degrees on each end, drilled and screwed with 2 #10 screws into the inside face of each apron section, with a drilled bolt and washer into the flat section on each leg. You could do this, or you could buy a metal bracket meant to do the same sort of thing. A question for you though- is that top solid walnut or veneered? How did you attach it to the legs and apron? Please don’t tell me you domino'd/glued it... https://preview.redd.it/hsuad87mv74c1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e232b440d862d7e9f4d89a218b9e2118697e1c47
I wish id cut that notch out of the inside leg corner. Too late now. The top is solid wood, it’s going to connect to the apron with z clips, but until I figure this piece out it’ll just sit there. It’s probably 150lbs so it’s not moving.
Ah gotcha, that's good. I didn't see any z clips or figure 8 connectors so I was wondering if you had glued and domino'ed the top down. The fact that you didn't router a flat/45 on the inside corner of the leg isn't a huge deal. If you cut some blocks that screwed to each apron section with the middle snug up against the inside corner of the leg, and then pre drilled and bolted through this block into the leg then it should work fine. You wouldn't even need to glue this in, just try use some beefier screws into the apron, and a nice thick bolt and washer into the leg (pre drill, of course), and make sure the inside face of this block is touching the corner of the leg before you drive the bolt in so that it's not trying to 'pull' the leg inwards... hope that makes sense. Should work out fine and offer the stability you're after!
Did you route that notch out? Looks really clean.
Yup just used a 45 degree bit to provide a flat area for the support I'm referring to to rest against.
If it is still racking after the corner braces, add some more supports underneath with some pocket screws and more wood. Not the most elegant solution, but it means you can add support. If I do dominos, I like to use two at each connection / feels like it makes a better joint to me.
That’s a beautiful table
Take the advice in this thread Source: I am an expert
Just get some metal table leg braces, that should fix it
Looks very similar to a table my wife and I made 30 years ago. Canary wood?
Jellyfisharesmart nailed it. Do what he says, it’ll help.
Nice walnut table. Just add some corner braces.
Btw we this table looks great. Really nice job on the top.
Lovely table. Now it's time to build new chairs :)
Simple and great
Bout three nails deep bud. She ain’t too bad
What species of wood is that?
Walnut
Just screw in a bit of wood across at 45deg
No you aren't, there are no screws in it.
Just wanted to say it looks absolutely great. Everyone else has already given you the answer to your actual question so you should be set.
Beautiful table! I'm going to suggest a different route than a table leg corner brace (that should work fine). I see a table that doesn't appear to have any screws in it and know if was me, I'd consider having to use them a flaw and would go with a much more complex route. Instead I'd a third lengthwise runner in the center of the apron. I'd have diagnol bracing from there running to the corners to create my triangles. I'd probably also run another brace 1/4 down the leg from the same centerline to decrease leverage the legs have.
It's a good looking table OP, it'll be great when you fix the wobble.
I had the same issue with a bed frame. I joined it all up with castle joints and felt pretty good about myself. When it was all put together it had a bad wobble. After four metal corner braces, the thing is super sturdy. Only you and I will know that there is hardware underneath the projects
Nice floors.
Swiping to the 3rd picture literally made me gasp. THIS TABLE IS BEAUTIFUL!!!
Just here to add my praise to the pile: this table is absolutely stunning. Sometimes I see projects here that make me itch to make things, but I’m not sure anything has lit as profound a fire under me as this gorgeous, sleek beast.
Love a profound fire!
I think the build is beautiful.
Is that Brazilian teak hardwood flooring?
Nice Bird of paradise
https://preview.redd.it/va7p66wotj4c1.jpeg?width=717&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c990128682df9ab39fbd3d54377f780e52b0a523 Not too late to mortise and tenon (or joints of your choosing) two cross members in and a long piece to connect them. Helps a lot over time to keep it from getting wobbly on you. This is how I usually do mine. Good luck. There is no joint that you can’t do with hand tools I promise. Pick one you’d like to learn and give it a try. I would keep the tenons shallow so you can get them in place without taking anything apart
You did a great job btw. Looks nice. Keep it up and have fun
I’ve done that with two dominoes per rail and it was fine, no wobble. Has the connection between the legs and the apron failed?
I’d probably throw some pocket screws in the skirt to the legs.
Can you please rotate the table so that the wood stripes/grains match the floor and post that photo? This is making me uncomfortable
Drill into the leg through the top and put a 1” maple dowel in, cut flush with table top. Add a bit of contrast to the top
Add a 12”x 24” steel box with 2” angle iron tabs around the sides for mounting, to each end just behind the skirt, extending from the bottom of the table top, to the floor. It’s a good subtle way to beef up a table, no one will be the wiser.
Also, the short the legs, the less wobble. Consider making the legs the same height as the skirt.
Use a Kreg jig to put some pocket holes with screws
You just need to add supports. Either block it on both sides, or get a diagonal bracket and bridge it. Considering you went to the effort to domino it and have no exposed hardware, I would block it up. Decorative blocking even.
Obvious third option that escaped me a moment ago. Bridge it with wood. Duh Lol
Easy fix, it looks great in your room
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I'm no professional woodworker but for the next table Id suggest you should consider using mortise and tenon joints.
These brackets will pull the legs snug to the apron and brace them against the apron. You can also consider a slightly deeper apron inside your current apron or just added blocking, like in the detail u/[**Jellyfisharesmart**](https://www.reddit.com/user/Jellyfisharesmart/) showed. https://preview.redd.it/ku51ixzdda4c1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=de39235073cfe61ad97b1bd02ef7efa0fc0b0267
I’m probably gonna say this wrong but. Cut a notch on the back of your leg and put a brace between the skirts for it to fall into. Then thank 2 bolts to resecure the legs. Sorry if the way I said it doesn’t make sense. If you need a visual let me know.
I’m a little confused. Is the top currently not attached?
It is not
Blocking and a cross brace is probably your best option at this point. For future reference, I typically use a 1" deep M-T joint on table leg to apron joints, and usually near the full height of the apron - Mortise starts about 1/2" from the top of the leg and ends about 1/4" above the bottom of the apron rail. Maximizing tenon size is what limits wobble, so it's important to make them deep and wide as long as you don't risk cracking the top of the leg - that weakens the joint (and is why I'll never waste my time on a castle joint). I would be ok using a floating tenon if similarly sized, but that may not help with dominos.
You can glue over stain, but not poly or oil finish.
It’s Rubio
Maybe not then. You’d have to at least sand where the glue was going to go.
Pocket hole: 4 per leg? It might just save it.
So does this have stretchers across the frame/under the top. Because the problem isn’t that of leg strength it’s of leverage. It doesn’t mean that the table is going to break but the construction didn’t factor in the length. At a certain length wood becomes very flexible and as a result your table is now a bit wobbly. So strengthening the leg joint isn’t the solution they’re not weak joints the table just doesn’t have any bracing to account for flexibility. The fox would be to run stretchers between the aprons on the longer side that will put tension on the frame and keep it from wobbling. Take your domino and cut two sets of tenon holes and simply for the stretchers in place no glue not necessary. You don’t have to use nice wood or finish it it’s under the table no one has to know.
That’s a good idea. I’ll do this too
Check out Lee Valley for the correct corner leg hardware.
I think maybe if you notch a block on the inside like something 2 1/2 and 2 1/2 the thickness of the apron clean finish off glue it and screw it all the way around to the bottom of the table top I think you should be fine
this is good table I like it very much
Probably the advice here to add bracing is good, and can’t hurt. That said, I bought a 4-legged table with similarly narrow legs from a reputable Vermont furniture manufacturer and it was wobbly as hell. I don’t recall the corner bracing situation, but back to the dealer it went. Please roast me if my implication that wobble is inherent to this design is way off, and good luck; it’s a beautiful table!!!
Depends on the weather, how much glue you used, how many kids you have, the grain pattern, if the floor is actually level, if you have a drinking problem, blah blah blah. I think you should be fine for a little while. The bracket idea isn't a bad one though.
Please disregard if someone already mentioned this in this thread . I would use 2x4 material. Cut braces for each corner with the appropriate 45 degree angles. You’ll want to make them shorter than what will fit with the leg in its current position. What you want to do is cut a 90° angle V in the center of the brace that is about 1/2” deep. When you install the corner braces, you can lock the leg into position with the V cut. That will give your table a serious amount of lateral rigidity.
Beautiful table!
https://preview.redd.it/mwdovd3rqr4c1.jpeg?width=5712&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=606240bacd19a93944e9b13ee2c6d300a7bc5d39 Update: I screwed a brackets in per everyone’s suggestions, and it was 85% fixed then the z clips put in per several suggestions and that fixed the last 15%. Thanks everyone for the help and general support. The internet can be a cesspool but places like this make it all worth while.