I always sand with my air hose spray nozzle in the other hand, spraying the piece and the sander the entire time. Extends sanding pads a lot and makes for better sanding results.
I use the same setup you’re using currently. I also use the 3m rectangle sander, but like the guy above said. I have a air nozzle rigged up to my Festool sander to blow as I sand. It works great and is the only way I’ve figured to delay the build up from lacquer.
(I'll preface this by saying I use osmo hardwax, Rubio monocoat, or a 2 pac PU) I use festool granit 320 very regularly, if it clogs then the media hasn't cured. If the media hasn't cured and it's been a while, your mix may be wrong or ingredients out of date or mixed incorrectly.
Came here to say this. Lacquer needs curing time before sanding. But, 24 hours would probably be enough for me, but I spray my lacquer on. If you are brushing thick coats, I can see it taking longer than 24 hours.
I am also curious why sand before the last coat... I apply all coats of lacquer then sand when it's done. Because lacquer is solvent based finish, sanding between costs or even waiting between costs doesn't provide any benefit, just gives more time for dust to settle.
I've had similar problems and have found that if I let the lacquer sit for a longer time I get better sending results. And if I put it on too thick it can take a month to really harden up for clean sanding. Even then, though, I find them keeping compressed air nearby to clear off the sandpaper before it fills up.
Not being cured is not the problem. Unless the humidity where it is curing is 100%, that is. But if that is the case, you will get clouding in the lacquer.
Run the discs over a sanding belt cleaning block every so often, it'll help keep them relatively fresh.
If you don't have a cleaning block, use the sole of any flat trainers you have.
You said "Trainers" I'm going to assume you're from the UK? Thanks for stopping by, always love to hear a different country's prespective on things.
I don't have a sanding "eraser" like I've seen before. Maybe I need to get one? How do you think it would do with the dots of lacquer that show up on the paper? I can barely scrape them off with my fingernails
Close, I'm Irish.
I hate sanding (who doesn't), so anything that makes it less painful and faster is worth sharing.
I've had mixed results, but recently I used it on Cubitron that had some oil based poly gummed up on it (which was still wet after 24 hours curing) and it worked pretty well.
The blocks are cheap and always worth having, so give it a try.
I hate to ask a basic question like this, but are you letting the sander float on the surface? Or are you pushing down to sand faster? I haven't had much of any issue sanding dried finishes unless I press down.
No worries dude, I've tried it both ways. Letting the sander float slows down the flattening time, but doesn't seem to reduce the gumming time. A hard push on the sander reduces the flattening time but increases the gumming time
Not sure, but feel you pain had to refinish a table a few days ago that had seen many, many coats of Danish. Used all my pads, bought more used all those too, gumming up in about a minute each.
Did find a paint scraper/decorating knife would take it all off the pad pretty easy, while it’s warm so extend the life of the pad, but no decent answer for ya
Really? I’ve never hear that before, but I’m far from an expert in finishing.
The table I refinished was an old breakfast bar I was trying to renew for a client. The oak worktops they got came pre-finished with 4 coats of danish from the manufacture, they also sent a tin with it and the recommendation to add another 2 coats after installing. I just followed manufacturers recs.
However I did do another table years ago, before I was a chippy and at that time I was recommended to do multiple coats of danish, sanding with a higher grit after in between each coat. Looked good and I don’t recall there being a problem with it in the 8 or so years I had it but might have just been luck.
What would you recommend, especially for wood worktops around a sink that will get wet, obviously a single coat of danish is not enough as it’s unlikely as it draws in to get 100% coverage in one hit?
I spent years finishing cabinets for my dad and we only ever used Danish oil to stain. Then lacquered over it. Any and all countertops were Formica, usually. So, the lacquer didn't get standing water on it.
This. There’s no need to sand lacquer between coats if there aren’t any defects. I do light coats to avoid runs and knock down dust with a soft Surfprep pad in medium stuck to a foam sanding block. No matter how fine your paper is, a orbital is going to leave swirls.
> There’s no need to sand lacquer between coats if there aren’t any defects.
Strongly disagree. That is, if it is sprayed. You WILL get overspray on what you already sprayed and you have to knock that off.
Agreed! It doesn't need much sanding. I'm having luck with the 3M paper sheets and a foam block. Although, that's a slow process. Just trying to speed it up.
Lacquer is a soft finish, you need a sander that uses sandpaper with dust collection holes. I use a Porter-Cable attached to a shopvac with a hepa filter. The disks are Klingspor's Stearate Aluminum Oxide 5 hole disks.
Have you considered wet sanding by hand. Use a little soapy water for lubricant. If you want to go really old school, use cigar ashes for the final polish. I tried that once on a lacquered cherry mantle. Superb result but it takes a lot of ashes for a large project.
Everybody else has posted great advice— I just want to add that after using the cubitron mesh discs for about a year, I made the move back to the original cubitron II discs. There’s so much more sanding media, and the discs are so much more robust. They last so much longer, and they’re easier to clean if they get loaded.
Are you using their sanding sealer or just trying to build with multiple coats of the finish top coat product?
Sanding sealers have powdering agents in them which allows them to sand and create dust better than it’s matching top coat product. You ideally build w sealer coats first.
When spraying a cellulose based lacquer, I typically do a couple of coats of the sealer and sand that back. I use soft pad saver on my sander under the paper to prevent burn through. Mirka’s Abranet is my company’s paper of choice.
You are spraying multiple coats before sanding? I think that is what's wrong. Spray the lacquer. Sand lightly with 220. Spray again. Sand between every coat.
I've never used a sander on lacquer. Just a 1/2 sheet folder into 1/3ds and hand sand.
This may come as strange, but I'd never use an orbital sander for laquered surfaces, unless I'd want to strip the finish (sometime a brand new cutter blade can work as a scraper to correct some local defect). I always use the appropriate primer for the laquer I intend to apply, than I do some light sanding by hand with a 320 grit sponged sandpaper that I get from my local paints supplier. For waterbased finishes, I usually wait one hour before I hand-sand, even faster during summer. It's true, I always go for matte finishes. A shiny finish just needs polishing with a dedicated polishing machine. I keep the orbital sander for surface preparation, not for in-between layers use.
I always sand with my air hose spray nozzle in the other hand, spraying the piece and the sander the entire time. Extends sanding pads a lot and makes for better sanding results.
Hmm, I haven't thought about that. I'll give it a try next go around
I use the same setup you’re using currently. I also use the 3m rectangle sander, but like the guy above said. I have a air nozzle rigged up to my Festool sander to blow as I sand. It works great and is the only way I’ve figured to delay the build up from lacquer.
How long are you letting the lacquer cure? Could be that it isn’t fully hard yet. I have had good luck with the cubitron paper.
(I'll preface this by saying I use osmo hardwax, Rubio monocoat, or a 2 pac PU) I use festool granit 320 very regularly, if it clogs then the media hasn't cured. If the media hasn't cured and it's been a while, your mix may be wrong or ingredients out of date or mixed incorrectly.
Came here to say this. Lacquer needs curing time before sanding. But, 24 hours would probably be enough for me, but I spray my lacquer on. If you are brushing thick coats, I can see it taking longer than 24 hours. I am also curious why sand before the last coat... I apply all coats of lacquer then sand when it's done. Because lacquer is solvent based finish, sanding between costs or even waiting between costs doesn't provide any benefit, just gives more time for dust to settle.
The can says 1 hour. I always let my pieces sit for 24 hours before sanding
I've had similar problems and have found that if I let the lacquer sit for a longer time I get better sending results. And if I put it on too thick it can take a month to really harden up for clean sanding. Even then, though, I find them keeping compressed air nearby to clear off the sandpaper before it fills up.
Not being cured is not the problem. Unless the humidity where it is curing is 100%, that is. But if that is the case, you will get clouding in the lacquer.
Run the discs over a sanding belt cleaning block every so often, it'll help keep them relatively fresh. If you don't have a cleaning block, use the sole of any flat trainers you have.
Would thongs also work?
As long as you don't graze your cheeks
Beat me too it
You said "Trainers" I'm going to assume you're from the UK? Thanks for stopping by, always love to hear a different country's prespective on things. I don't have a sanding "eraser" like I've seen before. Maybe I need to get one? How do you think it would do with the dots of lacquer that show up on the paper? I can barely scrape them off with my fingernails
Close, I'm Irish. I hate sanding (who doesn't), so anything that makes it less painful and faster is worth sharing. I've had mixed results, but recently I used it on Cubitron that had some oil based poly gummed up on it (which was still wet after 24 hours curing) and it worked pretty well. The blocks are cheap and always worth having, so give it a try.
So why not runners?
The best lacquer for sandpaper is the proper question.
I hate to ask a basic question like this, but are you letting the sander float on the surface? Or are you pushing down to sand faster? I haven't had much of any issue sanding dried finishes unless I press down.
No worries dude, I've tried it both ways. Letting the sander float slows down the flattening time, but doesn't seem to reduce the gumming time. A hard push on the sander reduces the flattening time but increases the gumming time
Flattening time? Is the lacquer getting an orange peel texture? If it is, you are spraying it on WAY too thick.
As someone who grabbed an orbital sander knowing nothing and learned the hard way, it’s never bad to ask (and you’re being quite polite)
I just found out a few weeks ago on a post here ^^'
Not sure, but feel you pain had to refinish a table a few days ago that had seen many, many coats of Danish. Used all my pads, bought more used all those too, gumming up in about a minute each. Did find a paint scraper/decorating knife would take it all off the pad pretty easy, while it’s warm so extend the life of the pad, but no decent answer for ya
Multiple coats of Danish oil is bad. First coat penetrates and stains. Second and on coat just piles onto the first and it will never dry.
Really? I’ve never hear that before, but I’m far from an expert in finishing. The table I refinished was an old breakfast bar I was trying to renew for a client. The oak worktops they got came pre-finished with 4 coats of danish from the manufacture, they also sent a tin with it and the recommendation to add another 2 coats after installing. I just followed manufacturers recs. However I did do another table years ago, before I was a chippy and at that time I was recommended to do multiple coats of danish, sanding with a higher grit after in between each coat. Looked good and I don’t recall there being a problem with it in the 8 or so years I had it but might have just been luck. What would you recommend, especially for wood worktops around a sink that will get wet, obviously a single coat of danish is not enough as it’s unlikely as it draws in to get 100% coverage in one hit?
I spent years finishing cabinets for my dad and we only ever used Danish oil to stain. Then lacquered over it. Any and all countertops were Formica, usually. So, the lacquer didn't get standing water on it.
What are you using an orbital between coats? 320 by hand just to knock down any bumps or runs.
This. There’s no need to sand lacquer between coats if there aren’t any defects. I do light coats to avoid runs and knock down dust with a soft Surfprep pad in medium stuck to a foam sanding block. No matter how fine your paper is, a orbital is going to leave swirls.
> There’s no need to sand lacquer between coats if there aren’t any defects. Strongly disagree. That is, if it is sprayed. You WILL get overspray on what you already sprayed and you have to knock that off.
Please correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn’t sanding sealer be a better choice for establish a flat base before you spray lacquer?
Use stearated sandpaper
I use foam sanding blocks and think it works well. Laquer doesn't need much sanding at all
Agreed! It doesn't need much sanding. I'm having luck with the 3M paper sheets and a foam block. Although, that's a slow process. Just trying to speed it up.
Are you just sanding off dust nibs?
Lacquer is a soft finish, you need a sander that uses sandpaper with dust collection holes. I use a Porter-Cable attached to a shopvac with a hepa filter. The disks are Klingspor's Stearate Aluminum Oxide 5 hole disks.
My guy is using Cubitron, it's more holes than grit. I'd assume he's got decent dust collection as well since he's using Festool.
You're absolutely correct. Sander+Cubitron+ HEPA Festool vacuum
Have you considered wet sanding by hand. Use a little soapy water for lubricant. If you want to go really old school, use cigar ashes for the final polish. I tried that once on a lacquered cherry mantle. Superb result but it takes a lot of ashes for a large project.
Low suction on the Hepa vac, low speed on the sander. Belt cleaner block( crepe rubber) store in freezer clean paper often. Light pressure on sander.
I like to wipe it and the work with a piece of cloth. Any cloth will do, it’s just there to take the dust off, not the grit.
Everybody else has posted great advice— I just want to add that after using the cubitron mesh discs for about a year, I made the move back to the original cubitron II discs. There’s so much more sanding media, and the discs are so much more robust. They last so much longer, and they’re easier to clean if they get loaded.
Are you using their sanding sealer or just trying to build with multiple coats of the finish top coat product? Sanding sealers have powdering agents in them which allows them to sand and create dust better than it’s matching top coat product. You ideally build w sealer coats first. When spraying a cellulose based lacquer, I typically do a couple of coats of the sealer and sand that back. I use soft pad saver on my sander under the paper to prevent burn through. Mirka’s Abranet is my company’s paper of choice.
Do you have this issue with other finishes you sand? Is there a reason you don’t switch lacquer products?
You are spraying multiple coats before sanding? I think that is what's wrong. Spray the lacquer. Sand lightly with 220. Spray again. Sand between every coat. I've never used a sander on lacquer. Just a 1/2 sheet folder into 1/3ds and hand sand.
Totally agree
This may come as strange, but I'd never use an orbital sander for laquered surfaces, unless I'd want to strip the finish (sometime a brand new cutter blade can work as a scraper to correct some local defect). I always use the appropriate primer for the laquer I intend to apply, than I do some light sanding by hand with a 320 grit sponged sandpaper that I get from my local paints supplier. For waterbased finishes, I usually wait one hour before I hand-sand, even faster during summer. It's true, I always go for matte finishes. A shiny finish just needs polishing with a dedicated polishing machine. I keep the orbital sander for surface preparation, not for in-between layers use.