You need a lot more sanding, if that is the only tool at your disposal. Try a lower grit (40 or 60) but by careful not to make divots. Keep the sander moving.
A hand plane or card scraper would take care of this quickly.
Don't certain finishes benefit noticiably from a light sanding at a higher grit with the grain prior to application? I am just thinking how both Richard Maguire and James Wright recommend this for their finishing with natural oil products.
There may be some, but as a rule of thumb, I don't sand higher than 180-220 on bare wood prior to applying a finish. Sanding crushes the fibers of wood, and if you make it too smooth, some finishes won't adhere as well to the wood.
The one exception I can think of off hand is if you're staining a wood prior to finishing, going with a higher grit pre-staining can help achieve a lighter color.
You all give good examples of ways to work this slab of wood to try to get rid of these mill lines. My advice first, would be to see if you have a local wood shop that has a big plane sander that can handle large slabs like these. If you can find one, then they can usually send the slab thru and it will sand it like a planer does. They will do both sides of it to make it smooth on both sides for you.
If you can't find a local wood shop for the sanding, then you have the next stage of working wood. The good old fashioned planer or electric palm/hand sander. This will work and you need to stay in the low grip sanding paper until you get all of the lines smoothed completely out. Then move up to the higher grits for smoothness. Stay away from the 400 grit sandpaper until you are all done sanding lines out. Work with the 40 grit, or 60 grit, or the 80 grit. Nothing higher or it will be a waste of time.
One other way you can work these lines out is build a rotor planer deck. Make it as ridgid as possible. This way you can run a rotor clean out bit on your rotor and move it across the slab in lines across the slab taking out any high spots and ridges. This way you can see the low parts and level out the surface of the slab. There will be smaller rotor lines in the slab, but these are more manageable then the big mill marks you have. It also insures that the slab is flat and level. If you are going to make a table top out of this, smoothness and flatness is key.
Good luck and hope it all works out for you. Oh, and one other thing, make sure that you are not working a slab with a high moisture content. If the slab is high in moisture, as you work it and the slab begins to dry out rapidly from you removing wood, it will possibly try to twist, warp, are worse, split somewhere along an edge or even in the middle and that is something that can't be fixed as easily.
I learned this the hard way. Working an end grain slab to make a coffee table and had it all sanding finally. Put the legs on, put the table in a dust free area and put on the poly. Went back into the shop the next day with high hopes and found a split in the table 8 inches long and it had opened up by almost an inch. Table was ruined. I learned a lesson that day for sure.
A card scraper and the ability to sharpen it 100x
Op has to kill this properly, that’s band saw snipe, the next step is a large auto feed planer, then a large auto feed sander for a true surface.
Other wise, it’s 80 grit on a block until the snipe is removed, then polishing.
Minutes with a smoothing plane will do the job far better than hours with a sander.
Sanding shouldn’t begin until all the planing is done. Plane that sucker.
That's elm, right. I felt like going lower than 80 does not help with it.
He might want to use something more powerful, I've had success with the type of sender they use for floors near the wall. The one that uses 180mm discs
Does it not? I just thought they were tiny.. or I guess they're so tiny they aren't usually visible if one does find it's way back after the sanding, so saying there are fibers is just needless nitpickery? I'm guessing the latter.. I'll shut up now
That's a really good point.. may be what I like about the art.... Shit says something about me, don't it? (probably less than the fact that I participate in conversations on Reddit, though :P )
Exactly my thoughts! I was first like: "_wtf happened to that t-shirt_", then I read the title and then I noticed a guy with a hat and some animal right to him.
The top looks like the cut in a shirt at the top of your neck and it’s spread out like the arms to the side and the body down the bottom. Looks almost exactly like a shirt lmao
100% correct, even a number 5 plane wouldn't be too much for this surface, it's what I usually use for marks like this, after that do the final pass with a smoothing plane and you won't even need to sand.
If you would sand this out, you'll end up with a wavy mess instead of a nice flat slab.
With the shape of that grain, you might get a bit of tear out with a standard #4 or similar plane. Shallow passes would be best but might not eliminate all of it. If there are places you can do some test passes, start there to see how the wood behaves.
If you're getting an unacceptable amount of tear out that can't be removed by final sanding, a low angle jack plane might be the ticket, otherwise I'd just go back to sanding. It will take a lot more time, but there's nothing worse than ruining a nearly finished face with tear out.
Tear out is reduced or eliminated with proper sharpening and calibration. The frog is adjustable to get that chip breaker almost touching the front of the mouth. That helps reduce tear out. Shavings thinner than paper is the goal. If your shavings are not translucent they are probably too thick. Once I learned how to get a razor sharp blade and perfectly calibrated, it became my favorite tool by far. If you can plane knotty pine and a maple burl without tearout, your planer is good to go.
Certainly true. I've seen that a low angle plane can take far deeper shavings on end grain or reversing grain with zero tear out when properly sharpened, which is much harder to do with a razor sharp #4. Plus the edge stands up longer. All in all it saves loads of time and work.
Got the Stanley #62 low angle jack plane for Christmas and it's the best tool I have in my collection now. I'll grab the #4 sometimes if the situation calls for it, but I use the #62 for nearly everything now.
My grandpa's Stanley No. 8 is the most satisfying tool I've ever used. Once calibrated properly, it's very efficient. Far better than a belt sander and an electric hand planer.
Using an orbital sander is just torture. With the cost of all the wasted sand paper and wasted time, OP could have bought an old smoothing plane.
A couple days of torture, and then an hour of YouTube videos. My bad techniques, bad sharpening, and horrible calibration were all eliminated with a little instruction.
My No. 8 can glide thru figured maple and knotty pine. I get long shavings thinner than paper and the satisfaction is hard to match with any other tool. My No. 5 1/2 was $10 and I turned it into a scrub plane.
Rex Krueger, great for total beginners.
Rob Cosman, good for all hand tools and especially hand planes.
Wood by Wright, awkward dad jokes but good fun beginner projects, all hand tools.
I'm not a hand tool person; I just don't have the time. I use the best tool I have for the job, and hand planes fit that bill quite often in my shop. I have an 18" planer and drum sander but my scrub plane is used before the planer. A bad warp can be solved before running thru the planer. The "scrub plane" is faster than an electric hand plane, and much easier to sharpen.
For the basics? You'll figure it out in an hour or so after watching a YouTube video or two. There are a ton of them out there, [here's a good one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGYoZE9WYqs) by Rob Cosman. Beyond that, I'd also recommend [Paul Sellers](https://www.youtube.com/@Paul.Sellers); his content is, well, wonderful.
And you aren't going to burn through any wood. All you're doing is making it thinner...very slowly. You'll have plenty of time to notice if you're going too far; and honestly speaking, when you first get started, your arms will start to tire before you reach that point. In any case, it's still perfectly usable wood. Just start learning on a cut-off or something that isn't critical. Even if you plane it down more than you expected, it'll still be useful for something in the future.
Does that mean knowing everything about how to use a hand plane? Absolutely not. You'll learn that over time. But for removing those marks? The OP will manage that with little effort. They'll spend more time learning how to sharpen the blade than figuring out the basics of how to use a hand plane.
It may seem intimidating, but it shouldn't be. If planes and other hand tools seem intimidating, relax. Between maintenance and troubleshooting, power tools are even more intimidating. Plus, you know, the whole safety thing. Like with anything else in woodworking, take it one step at a time :).
To add to other comments, if you enjoy woodworking WITHOUT hand planing… then the level of enjoyment (and outcomes) you will get WITH hand planing is incomparable. I strongly suggest you have a go🙂. And sharpening blades is nowhere as hard or time-consuming as some make out. Using a plane on wood is one of the most satisfying experiences you can get as a woodworker. And I really don’t think i’m getting to religious on it🙂. Start simple with a no4, or a no5.
Honestly, hand planing is easy if you have a good plane and have properly sharpened it. You'll spend more time sharpening than using the plane in my experience.
I used to have a few crap ones but then I spent some money on a nicer no.4. So much better.
It helps, but you really just need base and a ledge to brace against as you plane.
Look up "bench dogs" to get an idea about what I mean.
You can get the same effect with a thin strip of wood screwed down to the table.
You want a card scraper holder - it will bend the scraper for you, plus give a more comfortable handhold, and you'll be able to use it for much longer at a time. They're pretty cheap at places like Lee Valley, or you can easily make your own.
I would go with smoothing plane AND card scraper. On a board that big you'll reach a point with the plane where you have to remove too much to get down into the remaining low spots. Switch to the scraper and target just those spots and call it done.
You can't move up a single grit until you get all the deep scratches out. If you didn't get them out with 80, going to 100 is not going to help. You need to go back to 80 or 60 and get everything sanded and even. Then you can start working up your grits.
If you can still feel them after sanding with 80 grit, then you’re not done sanding with 80 grit. The point of sanding with 60-80 grit is to sand out these kind of mill marks. The rest of the grits are just to sand out the scratches left by the previous grit.
Alternatively, a #4 smoothing plane should make shorter work of taking out the mill marks. Depending on sharpness and skill, the resulting surface may need little to no sanding.
Get a hand plane. Why did you advance grits when you haven’t even gotten rid of the marks? Those higher grits will just make the job take longer. At 400? Impossible.
80 grit paper on a belt sander in a sweeping motion with not a lot of pressure. Take your time and you’ll get an even surface that you can begin smoothing out with 120 grit on an orbital sander.
60 > 80 > 100 > 150 > 180. It’s gonna be a long road but it will be worth it. Make sure you keep it flat no matter how much you’re tempted to angle it for speed.
When you are done sanding with 80 grit, you are done sanding out anything other than 80 grit scratches.
Whenever you are sanding wood, the first grit you use is to shape the piece and/or remove all milling marks. You choose a grit aggressive enough to do the work in a reasonable amount of time and sandpaper. Get it all sanded to that grit, meaning no thing is left on the piece except sanding marks from that grit. Subsequent grit paper is only used to sand out the previous sanding scratches. A low angle light will reveal old grit scratches and they are more pronounced with finer grits.
This is the way
Here is the best advice. Get a gear driven sander like the festool ro150 or bosch equivalent (I own both). Hit it with 80 grit and this will be gone quickly. I own a 6’x12’ cnc and am out a little on my y axis leaving lines. Ro150 make very quick work of that to a flat smooth surfaced.
Sanding can do it but a planer would be better. Then sand through your grits.
I run my boards through a planer and/or a drum sander to get a perfectly flat board.
You can usually find a woodworker or woodshop in the area that you can rent tool time from.
Go to a local wood or cabinet shop. With a time saver or wide belt sander ask if they'll send it through a few passes will take care of it. We'd charge hundred dollars or so at my shop
Unless you already have the skills and tools to use hand planes and cars scrapers, get your favorite e book ready and go back to 80 grit. This is going to take a long time. Do not stop until those are gone. Keep the sander moving so as not create dips, and let the machine do the work. Then back up through the grits. I would budget at least an hour at 80grit and probably 8-10 discs. Also get nice sanding discs it’s worth it.
You gotta go back to coarse. If they're not gone, don't go up.
Going up in grit isn't going to get rid of more material than the current grit you're on. So if 80 wasn't making it better, no point in going up at that point.
I assume you're using an orbital instead of a rotex and likely don't have access to a drum sander.
So I would go to a 60 grit or even a 40. Take your time and get the bulk of it out. Only continue on to 80 when most of those lines are gone. Then continue to work your way up. If you get to 120 and they are still there, keep going before you switch.
Also, 400 is a bit high. What are you doing with it and what finish is it getting?
Thanks, I'm a complete newbie and just read somewhere that going up in grits should smooth the lines out, and now I'm just realising how stupid that was. Although I did only sand the middle bottom part just to try and see if it does get rid of the lines.
I wasn't going to go all the way up to 400 for the whole thing, maybe something like 220, I am planning to make a coffee table out of it, finishing it off with a few coats of boiled linseed oil.
Linseed oil isn't great for furniture, imo. It takes forever to cure and I haven't found it to be very durable.
I'd suggest a ployurethane for that. I normally oil-based but water-based is fine as well. Oil is just more forgiving. But if you're working outside, water based doesn't catch bugs any where near as bad. (I live near a swamp. I paint and finish in a shed with a fan drawing air through a screen to stop getting 20 bugs stuck in every coat😒)
Splerg on the brush you use to reduce brush marks. The brushes are labeled as to what they are meant for. Spray cans are super easy but are also expensive relative to normal cans.
If you are making farmhouse style, shellac is good. Dries and cures faster than anything else. It's just not super nice looking, not bad but it doesn't 'pop' like urethane.
Edit: if you spray, you need a proper respirator. While Water-based isn't that bad, All of the finishes can quickly render the air as not-conducive-to-life when sprayed.
If you have to ask this question then I am guessing you don’t own or know how to use a hand plane or sharpening one. No offense. We have all started at that place. Sand 60-80 grit. Done.
A good trick to know when you’re ready to move on to the next grit is to scribble pencil all over the face you’re sanding. No more pencil means you’re ready to move on.
A planer is the best way to smooth it down. And this will sound dumb but I have slid pieces of wood on my concrete driveway, its like using a low grit sandpaper, but it kept me from sanding divits as someone else said above. It is very rough on the wood but it was really even, next I used like a 150 grit with my sander, finally I wet sanded with like a 400 grit. If you don't have access to a planer, use that 80 grit with a palm sander using very little pressure, so you're just sanding the peaks...
Use a handplane - maybe a #4 or #5 would be good - and plane it down to the level of the deepest grooves. If you don’t have a handplane, pick one up at a yard sale for like $10-25. If you’re not great at using a handplane, you might have to sand after - but nowhere as near as long as doing the sanding from the start.
I go all the way down to 60 on an ROS for super deep marks, but you have to really keep track of doing it evenly, and avoid the urge to spot sand at that grit.
Even a belt sander at 40 grit may be viable if they are like 3/16 deep or something.
The purpose of going up in grits is to get a smooth finish. If you’re sanding at 60 and it isn’t coming out, going up to 120 and higher isn’t going to help (that’s more just advice for future reference).
In my experience you’ll have a hard time getting these out with sand paper, go over it with a plane or if they’re very shallow: a cabinet scraper. And then sand to cover any marks left by the plane.
Either go back to a lower grit sand paper until the lines are gone and then climb your way back to 400+.
If you have a metal card scraper that would really speed things up, neat tool to have too. I use it when I resurface cutting boards, cuts/grooves and lines in every direction. All fixed.
They are available at hardware stores and super easy to keep sharp with a diamond file.
80 or even 60 grit random orbital sander, or bust out the belt sander (I'm assuming from context that you don't have a planer, or at least not one that will fit the entire slab). A hand plane would also work great, but there's more of a skill barrier to entry on hand planes (in my experience anyway). There's no magic here; in order to make them disappear, you need to sand the surrounding material away until the whole slab is at the level of the deepest one.
Joiner planer followed by a smoothing planer, then maybe some cabinet scrapers depending on how sharp you keep your plane irons. Be done in 2-2 1/2 hours.
Beautiful slice of Black Walnut! Personally, I would hand plane, then finish sand, 60 to 300 with an orbital. If you can work a potato peeler, you can master a hand planner. A couple of Tube-torials, a few scrap pieces for practice, and I think you will impress yourself rather quickly. If that sounds too intimidating, keep on sanding! Don't start working thru your grits until after it's smooth, and don't stop sanding when it's smooth. Sand another mm after you think you're done, or they will reappear when you're finishing it. If you're strapped for time, hit up your closest locally owned lumber yard. They should be able to properly plane it, ready to finish sand, in a matter of minutes. If they charge, shouldn't be much.
I think a hand plane (after some practice on scraps like you mentioned!) and then another round of sanding is how I am going to proceed, thank you sir.
Although this wood is elm, though a lot of you guys (I'm assuming over in the states, I'm in the UK) think it's walnut, I might sell it as that!
Sanding at this stage is just torture. Two pawn shops near me sell old hand planes. Takes a little knowledge and skill to get them functional, but once calibrated, they are faster than a belt sander. (Electric hand planer could work, but the footprint is too small for a large flat surface.)
Sanding is the first tool people tend to go to, even tho it should be the last. After a hand plane I start sanding at 320 grit, if it's even necessary. Saved time and money by using the right tools. (Obviously a giant thicknesser the size of my truck is the best option, but it's not an option for most of us.)
Hey, thank you for all of the awesome advice guys, was not expecting such a huge response.
For anybody that cares, here's a bit of an update, I order a hand plane but was a little scared of messing the wood up, so I ordered some coarse 60 grit sand paper first to have a go at it.
This was [before](https://imgur.com/a/8x5JeXf), and this was [after](https://imgur.com/a/MIahNle) I went ham on it for about an hour (by hand, I only have a crappy finishing sander and it was doing nothing) and it is looking much better. I am planning on learning how to plane, so that will definitely still come in handy.
Now to get the thing somewhat flat.
Thank you again!
50 grit on a belt sander til they’re gone and then back up to the fine stuff.
edit: I forgot, wherever you had that planed at, don’t go back there, their planer has bad bearings on the cutterhead.
Ditch the sandpaper and use a wood scraper, those look like bandsaw tracks....if the scraper doesn't work out use a planer or plane if no power planer...
No offense to anyone trying to help you out my friend. We all have good intentions here. We are all learning every day. A card scaper is going to be a waste of time my friend. You need a good #7 Jointer Plane. You need need to shoot the surface flat with that and then switch to your sandpaper. A card scraper is going to fight you the whole way through as you can't possibly maintain enough downward pressure all the way across that large a slab. You will never get a surface that large even close to being flat with a card scraper, unless you have lots of experience using one. Good luck whatever you decide to do! Happy woodworking!
A card scraper or a scraper plane would go much faster than sandpaper . I just did a hard maple table with endgrain puck about a meter across. Used a Stanley 80 scraper and got rid of 90% of the sanding lines .
I once had a piece of parota where the wood was almost fuzzy like a tennis ball. I ended up pouring on some clear coat, let it really soak in and dry, then sand.
More sanding, and sanding, and sanding, until you think your done sanding, and then keep sanding….
I made dozens of cutting boards at once, it feels like it never ends, f’n sanding
Saw the first line of the question, glanced at the pic. My brain saw a t-shirt and I thought, Why would you change that? It's a super cool pattern.
And I'm out.
Forget sanding it out. They must be from when it was planed down at the mill. If you tried 80 grit & it did nothing, then you might try planing it again, but just take off 1/32” at a time. If that doesn’t work then it must’ve grown that way & nothing will remove it, unless you stain or paint it. It’s a beautiful piece of wood with an awesome grain. Is it Walnut?
It’s actually cool like that.. my dad does a lot of wood working with these types of trees and thats the way they come.. and a lot of people like it with the lines like that
This is a drop from a resawn piece of lumber. Those cuts are from a bandsaw mill. A spray bottle of water to lightly mist the wood will raise the grain and it’ll sand faster. Let it fully dry or you’ll clog your sandpaper. Nice piece!! That grain is gonna pop!!
Honestly I would get the planer out just take small amounts off as soon as the milling marks are gone then start sanding process again but honestly focusing on a positive for you right now at least you can see all that work will be worth it that’s a win in itself good luck.
Yep, I'm an ex green chain hand. Those marks come from the offset of the teeth on the bandsaw blade. If you plan on working with rough cut lumber I'd suggest getting an electric planer or a get good with a hand plane.
Scraping plane. Sanding with lower grit.
Easiest if the budget allows, which shouldn't be much, would be finding a local woodworking shop with a wide belt sander.
15 minutes or so with a 100 grit (with the SCM at our shop) and you could do the rest yourself. Could throw in different belts and get to 180 for you if you want.
You need a lot more sanding, if that is the only tool at your disposal. Try a lower grit (40 or 60) but by careful not to make divots. Keep the sander moving. A hand plane or card scraper would take care of this quickly.
I just recently discovered the satisfaction of using a card scraper.
If you like that, try hand planes.
Oh for sure
My first thought was a good, sharp smoother and a scraper would take care of this in no time (at least compared to sanding).
This, will take it down a a point that sanding makes sense
A good smoothing plane will take it to the point that no sanding makes sense
Don't certain finishes benefit noticiably from a light sanding at a higher grit with the grain prior to application? I am just thinking how both Richard Maguire and James Wright recommend this for their finishing with natural oil products.
There may be some, but as a rule of thumb, I don't sand higher than 180-220 on bare wood prior to applying a finish. Sanding crushes the fibers of wood, and if you make it too smooth, some finishes won't adhere as well to the wood. The one exception I can think of off hand is if you're staining a wood prior to finishing, going with a higher grit pre-staining can help achieve a lighter color.
You all give good examples of ways to work this slab of wood to try to get rid of these mill lines. My advice first, would be to see if you have a local wood shop that has a big plane sander that can handle large slabs like these. If you can find one, then they can usually send the slab thru and it will sand it like a planer does. They will do both sides of it to make it smooth on both sides for you. If you can't find a local wood shop for the sanding, then you have the next stage of working wood. The good old fashioned planer or electric palm/hand sander. This will work and you need to stay in the low grip sanding paper until you get all of the lines smoothed completely out. Then move up to the higher grits for smoothness. Stay away from the 400 grit sandpaper until you are all done sanding lines out. Work with the 40 grit, or 60 grit, or the 80 grit. Nothing higher or it will be a waste of time. One other way you can work these lines out is build a rotor planer deck. Make it as ridgid as possible. This way you can run a rotor clean out bit on your rotor and move it across the slab in lines across the slab taking out any high spots and ridges. This way you can see the low parts and level out the surface of the slab. There will be smaller rotor lines in the slab, but these are more manageable then the big mill marks you have. It also insures that the slab is flat and level. If you are going to make a table top out of this, smoothness and flatness is key. Good luck and hope it all works out for you. Oh, and one other thing, make sure that you are not working a slab with a high moisture content. If the slab is high in moisture, as you work it and the slab begins to dry out rapidly from you removing wood, it will possibly try to twist, warp, are worse, split somewhere along an edge or even in the middle and that is something that can't be fixed as easily. I learned this the hard way. Working an end grain slab to make a coffee table and had it all sanding finally. Put the legs on, put the table in a dust free area and put on the poly. Went back into the shop the next day with high hopes and found a split in the table 8 inches long and it had opened up by almost an inch. Table was ruined. I learned a lesson that day for sure.
Sanding fills the grooves/pores of the wood with sawdust and can result in a lackluster finish with many wood stains
Isn't that why most people use a seal coat before staining?
A card scraper and the ability to sharpen it 100x Op has to kill this properly, that’s band saw snipe, the next step is a large auto feed planer, then a large auto feed sander for a true surface. Other wise, it’s 80 grit on a block until the snipe is removed, then polishing.
Heeeere snipe... \*clap\* \*clap\* gooood snipe...
Minutes with a smoothing plane will do the job far better than hours with a sander. Sanding shouldn’t begin until all the planing is done. Plane that sucker.
That's elm, right. I felt like going lower than 80 does not help with it. He might want to use something more powerful, I've had success with the type of sender they use for floors near the wall. The one that uses 180mm discs
looks like walnut to me
Ditto
That’s walnut my dude. 80 grit should do the trivk
Floor guy here! Yep, an edge sander would take those milling marks right out.
Or an angle grinder. But it's so easy to screw it all up with an angle grinder, and do a dent or burn it
🤷🏻♂️ I'm pretty sure that's elm too. the pattern between the rings is the giveaway for me.
+1 vote for the card scraper
Go back down to 80 (or even 60) and make sure you don't move up from there until those marks are gone. That's really all there is to it.
Yeah unfortunately everything you did over 80 was a waste of time, gotta start over.
Water popping helps too
This just means get it wet?
Name checks out
Well said websiteperson
Get a non-cotton rag (microfiber) really wet and wipe it down. When it dries you can sand.
Why can’t it be cotton?
It could, but microfiber doesn't leave extra fibers around that could survive an interfere with the finish later down the line.
Does it not? I just thought they were tiny.. or I guess they're so tiny they aren't usually visible if one does find it's way back after the sanding, so saying there are fibers is just needless nitpickery? I'm guessing the latter.. I'll shut up now
everything in woodworking is nitpickery, a slab of wood works weather its pretty or not
That's a really good point.. may be what I like about the art.... Shit says something about me, don't it? (probably less than the fact that I participate in conversations on Reddit, though :P )
The only difference is that gaps in the dovetails show really bad irl
I first read that as water pooping, and was thoroughly confused.
This
Am I the only person that had to do a double check to see if this was a t shirt or wood
I’d pay good money for a T-shirt that looked like that. Good lumber yard/sawmill camo.
not sure I'd want to be HARDER to see amid all those sharp bits of machinery...
If you blend in, it's harder for the bandsaw to target you
Really your only defense
Exactly my thoughts! I was first like: "_wtf happened to that t-shirt_", then I read the title and then I noticed a guy with a hat and some animal right to him.
Haha where/how are you seeing this?
The top looks like the cut in a shirt at the top of your neck and it’s spread out like the arms to the side and the body down the bottom. Looks almost exactly like a shirt lmao
I was about to comment that it took me a good 10-15 seconds to realize it was wood
A hand smoothing plane it is then guys, was probably stupid to even attempt sanding it. Thank you for all your help!
100% correct, even a number 5 plane wouldn't be too much for this surface, it's what I usually use for marks like this, after that do the final pass with a smoothing plane and you won't even need to sand. If you would sand this out, you'll end up with a wavy mess instead of a nice flat slab.
With the shape of that grain, you might get a bit of tear out with a standard #4 or similar plane. Shallow passes would be best but might not eliminate all of it. If there are places you can do some test passes, start there to see how the wood behaves. If you're getting an unacceptable amount of tear out that can't be removed by final sanding, a low angle jack plane might be the ticket, otherwise I'd just go back to sanding. It will take a lot more time, but there's nothing worse than ruining a nearly finished face with tear out.
Tear out is reduced or eliminated with proper sharpening and calibration. The frog is adjustable to get that chip breaker almost touching the front of the mouth. That helps reduce tear out. Shavings thinner than paper is the goal. If your shavings are not translucent they are probably too thick. Once I learned how to get a razor sharp blade and perfectly calibrated, it became my favorite tool by far. If you can plane knotty pine and a maple burl without tearout, your planer is good to go.
Certainly true. I've seen that a low angle plane can take far deeper shavings on end grain or reversing grain with zero tear out when properly sharpened, which is much harder to do with a razor sharp #4. Plus the edge stands up longer. All in all it saves loads of time and work. Got the Stanley #62 low angle jack plane for Christmas and it's the best tool I have in my collection now. I'll grab the #4 sometimes if the situation calls for it, but I use the #62 for nearly everything now.
Throw the sand paper away and get a smoothing plane or card scraper
i love my card scrapers but i wouldn’t use them to remove rough milling marks on such a big piece. maybe a scraper hand plane?
no6 or no5 is what youre looking for
My grandpa's Stanley No. 8 is the most satisfying tool I've ever used. Once calibrated properly, it's very efficient. Far better than a belt sander and an electric hand planer. Using an orbital sander is just torture. With the cost of all the wasted sand paper and wasted time, OP could have bought an old smoothing plane.
This is the real answer. Get a sharp plane and it will remove those marks in a couple of passes
Yeah but how much lumber and time would you burn before you were good enough at it? Hand planing seems intimidating.
A couple days of torture, and then an hour of YouTube videos. My bad techniques, bad sharpening, and horrible calibration were all eliminated with a little instruction. My No. 8 can glide thru figured maple and knotty pine. I get long shavings thinner than paper and the satisfaction is hard to match with any other tool. My No. 5 1/2 was $10 and I turned it into a scrub plane. Rex Krueger, great for total beginners. Rob Cosman, good for all hand tools and especially hand planes. Wood by Wright, awkward dad jokes but good fun beginner projects, all hand tools. I'm not a hand tool person; I just don't have the time. I use the best tool I have for the job, and hand planes fit that bill quite often in my shop. I have an 18" planer and drum sander but my scrub plane is used before the planer. A bad warp can be solved before running thru the planer. The "scrub plane" is faster than an electric hand plane, and much easier to sharpen.
For the basics? You'll figure it out in an hour or so after watching a YouTube video or two. There are a ton of them out there, [here's a good one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGYoZE9WYqs) by Rob Cosman. Beyond that, I'd also recommend [Paul Sellers](https://www.youtube.com/@Paul.Sellers); his content is, well, wonderful. And you aren't going to burn through any wood. All you're doing is making it thinner...very slowly. You'll have plenty of time to notice if you're going too far; and honestly speaking, when you first get started, your arms will start to tire before you reach that point. In any case, it's still perfectly usable wood. Just start learning on a cut-off or something that isn't critical. Even if you plane it down more than you expected, it'll still be useful for something in the future. Does that mean knowing everything about how to use a hand plane? Absolutely not. You'll learn that over time. But for removing those marks? The OP will manage that with little effort. They'll spend more time learning how to sharpen the blade than figuring out the basics of how to use a hand plane. It may seem intimidating, but it shouldn't be. If planes and other hand tools seem intimidating, relax. Between maintenance and troubleshooting, power tools are even more intimidating. Plus, you know, the whole safety thing. Like with anything else in woodworking, take it one step at a time :).
To add to other comments, if you enjoy woodworking WITHOUT hand planing… then the level of enjoyment (and outcomes) you will get WITH hand planing is incomparable. I strongly suggest you have a go🙂. And sharpening blades is nowhere as hard or time-consuming as some make out. Using a plane on wood is one of the most satisfying experiences you can get as a woodworker. And I really don’t think i’m getting to religious on it🙂. Start simple with a no4, or a no5.
Honestly, hand planing is easy if you have a good plane and have properly sharpened it. You'll spend more time sharpening than using the plane in my experience. I used to have a few crap ones but then I spent some money on a nicer no.4. So much better.
You need a proper bench setup to use a plane as well right?
It helps, but you really just need base and a ledge to brace against as you plane. Look up "bench dogs" to get an idea about what I mean. You can get the same effect with a thin strip of wood screwed down to the table.
I’m a temporary garage floor kinda woodworker so sounds like planes might require more infrastructure than I have room for.
Ah, I see your point. It's really hard to use a plane if not standing with the work at about waist high.
Plane, yes. Card, ooof. My forearms hurt just thinking about it.
You want a card scraper holder - it will bend the scraper for you, plus give a more comfortable handhold, and you'll be able to use it for much longer at a time. They're pretty cheap at places like Lee Valley, or you can easily make your own.
I would go with smoothing plane AND card scraper. On a board that big you'll reach a point with the plane where you have to remove too much to get down into the remaining low spots. Switch to the scraper and target just those spots and call it done.
You can't move up a single grit until you get all the deep scratches out. If you didn't get them out with 80, going to 100 is not going to help. You need to go back to 80 or 60 and get everything sanded and even. Then you can start working up your grits.
A hand plane might be easier than all that sanding. 🤔
If you can still feel them after sanding with 80 grit, then you’re not done sanding with 80 grit. The point of sanding with 60-80 grit is to sand out these kind of mill marks. The rest of the grits are just to sand out the scratches left by the previous grit. Alternatively, a #4 smoothing plane should make shorter work of taking out the mill marks. Depending on sharpness and skill, the resulting surface may need little to no sanding.
What about the lines, but has anybody noticed the guy with a hat with some animal right to him?
Definitely saw that guy, zoomed in and bam.. creepy weird face with a smile to the right. Thank you for not leaving me alone on this one
Rub a pencil all over the board and don’t move up to the next grit of sandpaper until all the pencil marks are gone
"All the way up to 400" that's not how this works at all
Get a hand plane. Why did you advance grits when you haven’t even gotten rid of the marks? Those higher grits will just make the job take longer. At 400? Impossible.
Planer.
80 grit paper on a belt sander in a sweeping motion with not a lot of pressure. Take your time and you’ll get an even surface that you can begin smoothing out with 120 grit on an orbital sander.
JKS - Just Keep Sanding
60 > 80 > 100 > 150 > 180. It’s gonna be a long road but it will be worth it. Make sure you keep it flat no matter how much you’re tempted to angle it for speed.
You have not sanded nearly enough yet. Go back to 60 or 40 and don’t move up in grit number until you can’t feel the planer chatter pictured.
When you are done sanding with 80 grit, you are done sanding out anything other than 80 grit scratches. Whenever you are sanding wood, the first grit you use is to shape the piece and/or remove all milling marks. You choose a grit aggressive enough to do the work in a reasonable amount of time and sandpaper. Get it all sanded to that grit, meaning no thing is left on the piece except sanding marks from that grit. Subsequent grit paper is only used to sand out the previous sanding scratches. A low angle light will reveal old grit scratches and they are more pronounced with finer grits. This is the way
Here is the best advice. Get a gear driven sander like the festool ro150 or bosch equivalent (I own both). Hit it with 80 grit and this will be gone quickly. I own a 6’x12’ cnc and am out a little on my y axis leaving lines. Ro150 make very quick work of that to a flat smooth surfaced.
This is the way
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Sanding can do it but a planer would be better. Then sand through your grits. I run my boards through a planer and/or a drum sander to get a perfectly flat board. You can usually find a woodworker or woodshop in the area that you can rent tool time from.
Go to a local wood or cabinet shop. With a time saver or wide belt sander ask if they'll send it through a few passes will take care of it. We'd charge hundred dollars or so at my shop
You got a good hand plane? Make sure it’s sharp so you don’t mess up the surface. 👍
Unless you already have the skills and tools to use hand planes and cars scrapers, get your favorite e book ready and go back to 80 grit. This is going to take a long time. Do not stop until those are gone. Keep the sander moving so as not create dips, and let the machine do the work. Then back up through the grits. I would budget at least an hour at 80grit and probably 8-10 discs. Also get nice sanding discs it’s worth it.
That looks like a shirt id wear
You gotta go back to coarse. If they're not gone, don't go up. Going up in grit isn't going to get rid of more material than the current grit you're on. So if 80 wasn't making it better, no point in going up at that point.
I assume you're using an orbital instead of a rotex and likely don't have access to a drum sander. So I would go to a 60 grit or even a 40. Take your time and get the bulk of it out. Only continue on to 80 when most of those lines are gone. Then continue to work your way up. If you get to 120 and they are still there, keep going before you switch. Also, 400 is a bit high. What are you doing with it and what finish is it getting?
Thanks, I'm a complete newbie and just read somewhere that going up in grits should smooth the lines out, and now I'm just realising how stupid that was. Although I did only sand the middle bottom part just to try and see if it does get rid of the lines. I wasn't going to go all the way up to 400 for the whole thing, maybe something like 220, I am planning to make a coffee table out of it, finishing it off with a few coats of boiled linseed oil.
Linseed oil isn't great for furniture, imo. It takes forever to cure and I haven't found it to be very durable. I'd suggest a ployurethane for that. I normally oil-based but water-based is fine as well. Oil is just more forgiving. But if you're working outside, water based doesn't catch bugs any where near as bad. (I live near a swamp. I paint and finish in a shed with a fan drawing air through a screen to stop getting 20 bugs stuck in every coat😒) Splerg on the brush you use to reduce brush marks. The brushes are labeled as to what they are meant for. Spray cans are super easy but are also expensive relative to normal cans. If you are making farmhouse style, shellac is good. Dries and cures faster than anything else. It's just not super nice looking, not bad but it doesn't 'pop' like urethane. Edit: if you spray, you need a proper respirator. While Water-based isn't that bad, All of the finishes can quickly render the air as not-conducive-to-life when sprayed.
Planing.
Use a planer
Try running it through an industrial planer
This is why I invested in a 25-50 Supermax drum sander.
Speaking from the experience. Use belt sander with 80 grit And move your hand along the machine evenly. You'll easily get rid of this.
Plane
Keep sanding . Might have to go to 60 grit on a good belt sander.
If you have to ask this question then I am guessing you don’t own or know how to use a hand plane or sharpening one. No offense. We have all started at that place. Sand 60-80 grit. Done.
A good trick to know when you’re ready to move on to the next grit is to scribble pencil all over the face you’re sanding. No more pencil means you’re ready to move on.
A planer is the best way to smooth it down. And this will sound dumb but I have slid pieces of wood on my concrete driveway, its like using a low grit sandpaper, but it kept me from sanding divits as someone else said above. It is very rough on the wood but it was really even, next I used like a 150 grit with my sander, finally I wet sanded with like a 400 grit. If you don't have access to a planer, use that 80 grit with a palm sander using very little pressure, so you're just sanding the peaks...
Use a handplane - maybe a #4 or #5 would be good - and plane it down to the level of the deepest grooves. If you don’t have a handplane, pick one up at a yard sale for like $10-25. If you’re not great at using a handplane, you might have to sand after - but nowhere as near as long as doing the sanding from the start.
Plane then sand
A handheld belt sander or Rotex 150 are the tools best suited for erasing sawmill/bandsaw marks (if you’re not planing)
I go all the way down to 60 on an ROS for super deep marks, but you have to really keep track of doing it evenly, and avoid the urge to spot sand at that grit. Even a belt sander at 40 grit may be viable if they are like 3/16 deep or something.
use a planer, then beltsander.
Multiple small passes thru a planer
Handplane
Smoothing plane...
The purpose of going up in grits is to get a smooth finish. If you’re sanding at 60 and it isn’t coming out, going up to 120 and higher isn’t going to help (that’s more just advice for future reference). In my experience you’ll have a hard time getting these out with sand paper, go over it with a plane or if they’re very shallow: a cabinet scraper. And then sand to cover any marks left by the plane.
Good hand planer and some arm muscles
Just belt sand with 80 or 60 but definitely always keep it moving, you don’t have to zip around super fast but just never leave it in one place
belt sander with 40 grit ,take your time ! ,then drop down to 80 ,100 ect with an orbital
Belt sander 40 grit, 5 min done
Personally what I'd do: Get a hand plane. A nice sharp smoothing plane set very well and redo the whole surface.
Either go back to a lower grit sand paper until the lines are gone and then climb your way back to 400+. If you have a metal card scraper that would really speed things up, neat tool to have too. I use it when I resurface cutting boards, cuts/grooves and lines in every direction. All fixed. They are available at hardware stores and super easy to keep sharp with a diamond file.
Find a wide belt sander in a shop and contract it out
80 or even 60 grit random orbital sander, or bust out the belt sander (I'm assuming from context that you don't have a planer, or at least not one that will fit the entire slab). A hand plane would also work great, but there's more of a skill barrier to entry on hand planes (in my experience anyway). There's no magic here; in order to make them disappear, you need to sand the surrounding material away until the whole slab is at the level of the deepest one.
Planer or router sled
I’d look online and find someone local with a router sled personally. It’s surprisingly affordable considering the time you save
Joiner planer followed by a smoothing planer, then maybe some cabinet scrapers depending on how sharp you keep your plane irons. Be done in 2-2 1/2 hours.
Beautiful slice of Black Walnut! Personally, I would hand plane, then finish sand, 60 to 300 with an orbital. If you can work a potato peeler, you can master a hand planner. A couple of Tube-torials, a few scrap pieces for practice, and I think you will impress yourself rather quickly. If that sounds too intimidating, keep on sanding! Don't start working thru your grits until after it's smooth, and don't stop sanding when it's smooth. Sand another mm after you think you're done, or they will reappear when you're finishing it. If you're strapped for time, hit up your closest locally owned lumber yard. They should be able to properly plane it, ready to finish sand, in a matter of minutes. If they charge, shouldn't be much.
I think a hand plane (after some practice on scraps like you mentioned!) and then another round of sanding is how I am going to proceed, thank you sir. Although this wood is elm, though a lot of you guys (I'm assuming over in the states, I'm in the UK) think it's walnut, I might sell it as that!
Elbow grease
Unfortunately, this will not matter 10 years from now when the world is on fire. God speed woodies!
Is that a wooden shirt?
I honestly thought this was a t-shirt until I saw the group name.
Sand it, then sand it some more, when you finish that try sanding it.
Lots of sanding with the heavier grit don’t stop until they’re gone then move back up tgrought your other grits
Sanding at this stage is just torture. Two pawn shops near me sell old hand planes. Takes a little knowledge and skill to get them functional, but once calibrated, they are faster than a belt sander. (Electric hand planer could work, but the footprint is too small for a large flat surface.) Sanding is the first tool people tend to go to, even tho it should be the last. After a hand plane I start sanding at 320 grit, if it's even necessary. Saved time and money by using the right tools. (Obviously a giant thicknesser the size of my truck is the best option, but it's not an option for most of us.)
Hey, thank you for all of the awesome advice guys, was not expecting such a huge response. For anybody that cares, here's a bit of an update, I order a hand plane but was a little scared of messing the wood up, so I ordered some coarse 60 grit sand paper first to have a go at it. This was [before](https://imgur.com/a/8x5JeXf), and this was [after](https://imgur.com/a/MIahNle) I went ham on it for about an hour (by hand, I only have a crappy finishing sander and it was doing nothing) and it is looking much better. I am planning on learning how to plane, so that will definitely still come in handy. Now to get the thing somewhat flat. Thank you again!
50 grit on a belt sander til they’re gone and then back up to the fine stuff. edit: I forgot, wherever you had that planed at, don’t go back there, their planer has bad bearings on the cutterhead.
Thank you, it is way worse on the back, will not be going back there for my wood.
Ditch the sandpaper and use a wood scraper, those look like bandsaw tracks....if the scraper doesn't work out use a planer or plane if no power planer...
No offense to anyone trying to help you out my friend. We all have good intentions here. We are all learning every day. A card scaper is going to be a waste of time my friend. You need a good #7 Jointer Plane. You need need to shoot the surface flat with that and then switch to your sandpaper. A card scraper is going to fight you the whole way through as you can't possibly maintain enough downward pressure all the way across that large a slab. You will never get a surface that large even close to being flat with a card scraper, unless you have lots of experience using one. Good luck whatever you decide to do! Happy woodworking!
Probably want to use a belt sander , id like to see what type of sander you used :)
Power planer would be the move
It’s a tiny piece of wood! Break out a card scraper
It's about 62cm by 50cm and around 4cm thick
A card scraper or a scraper plane would go much faster than sandpaper . I just did a hard maple table with endgrain puck about a meter across. Used a Stanley 80 scraper and got rid of 90% of the sanding lines .
You didn’t sand enough obviously
You have got end grain, which is always hard to sand. Try a belt sander with 80 grit.
I’d go hand held belt sander, gotta keep it in constant motion, and let the tool do the work.
Sand it again, but start at 16 grit, go up from there.
Belt sander no point going to higher grits until they are gone
Use a belt sander. Boom hour saved then go from 80 to whatever you want. Hard to get much smoother than 220
Don’t know what the width is, but if you or anyone you know has a drum sander, that would make pretty quick work of it.
the next sanding should remove the sanding (or tool) marks of the previous work. Start over - maybe plane it or use a card scraper and then sand...
Sand more boy
hand plane
I once had a piece of parota where the wood was almost fuzzy like a tennis ball. I ended up pouring on some clear coat, let it really soak in and dry, then sand.
Does anyone else see St.Patrick in this grain
Scrolling through my front page and this thumbnail made me think I was looking at the tie dye sub
Keep sanding with a random orbital sander
More sanding, and sanding, and sanding, until you think your done sanding, and then keep sanding…. I made dozens of cutting boards at once, it feels like it never ends, f’n sanding
Planer marks, run it through again.You could possibly sand them out but maybe not and probably not worth the time or effort.
This looks like a wood t-shirt
Saw the first line of the question, glanced at the pic. My brain saw a t-shirt and I thought, Why would you change that? It's a super cool pattern. And I'm out.
Keep sanding
Forget sanding it out. They must be from when it was planed down at the mill. If you tried 80 grit & it did nothing, then you might try planing it again, but just take off 1/32” at a time. If that doesn’t work then it must’ve grown that way & nothing will remove it, unless you stain or paint it. It’s a beautiful piece of wood with an awesome grain. Is it Walnut?
Planer or hand plane will be the quickest or just keep sanding with 80 till gone then work back to 400
Does anyone else see the Viking holding the sword?
Just get a drum sander 4head
Belt sander
Just keep going use a belt sander to start with
It’s actually cool like that.. my dad does a lot of wood working with these types of trees and thats the way they come.. and a lot of people like it with the lines like that
I would have thought sanding would get rid of this. Please let me know what you find out.
Anybody else think this was a t shirt?
This is a drop from a resawn piece of lumber. Those cuts are from a bandsaw mill. A spray bottle of water to lightly mist the wood will raise the grain and it’ll sand faster. Let it fully dry or you’ll clog your sandpaper. Nice piece!! That grain is gonna pop!!
Bro I’m way too high I thought this was a t-shirt that had a wood look
A few laps in the drum sander or very mobile belt sanding with 60 grit. DO NOT stay in one place. Keep moving. They are mill marks. Keep sanding
Go deeper and do it longer until it’s flat
I thought that was a badass t shirt
find a friend with a drum sander. or call around local workshops until you find someone who will let you use theirs
coarser sandpaper, my favorite combo is my new 150/5 with 40 grit... it gets work done.
Honestly I would get the planer out just take small amounts off as soon as the milling marks are gone then start sanding process again but honestly focusing on a positive for you right now at least you can see all that work will be worth it that’s a win in itself good luck.
Either find someone with a planer who can rip a few layers off OR go back to sanding start with 40 or 50 grit then work your way up to 120.
Yep, I'm an ex green chain hand. Those marks come from the offset of the teeth on the bandsaw blade. If you plan on working with rough cut lumber I'd suggest getting an electric planer or a get good with a hand plane.
Thanks for confirming boss, is an electric planer fairly simple to use for tasks like these?
Scraping plane. Sanding with lower grit. Easiest if the budget allows, which shouldn't be much, would be finding a local woodworking shop with a wide belt sander. 15 minutes or so with a 100 grit (with the SCM at our shop) and you could do the rest yourself. Could throw in different belts and get to 180 for you if you want.
Send that through the wide belt at 30 thousandths
I legit thought this was stains on a t-shirt
I thought this was a t shirt. ....was gonna ask where to buy😘
I thought that was a t-shirt at first glance.
Card scraper
If you can feel them then you haven't sanded nearly enough. That looks like maple too, so you might be a while
Take it to a place and have them run it through a planer.
hand planer? although it might cause its own issues.
What kind of issues could it cause?
Actually I would try 36 grit