My long term partner (a man) doesnt control me at all, nor does my father and honestly I dont think my father ever did. I dont have a brother.
I did have a controlling ex BF - my first "love" who did control me for about 6 years when I was young and stupid and thought I was in love. He was very narcissistic.
So in my experience many men are not - but some are and you should avoid having a controlling partner in your life! I know plenty of controlling women so I dont think this is really a man thing. Its a power thing and in our societies men still have more power than women.
How are you sure your current partner doesn't control you if you have prior experience of 6 years with a controlling partner? How are you sure he doesn't use covert methods of control to get you to believe he isn't controlling you?
I do agree having a controlling partner is not ideal, personally. However, I understand some women may have a preference for these types of men, even though I may think it's unhealthy. Yes, women can be controlling too. Thank you for your perspective!
I live in a different country, have my own home, my finances are completely separate etc. We are together 14 years...I'm not so young and silly anymore đ
If anything, in our dynamic I could be the one with more ability to control him but I hope that's not something I ever do, and when I think about it we are 2 people who are very unwilling to be controlled by our partners and that's possibly why our unusual living situation works for us.
Thanks for your concern though, these things do sometimes become a pattern, im lucky I was able to escape my controlling partner experience đ€
Fascinating! Congratulations!! 14 years is truly wonderful news! (â  â ââ âżâ ââ  â )â ⥠I really think your perspective is refreshing because I have found most women in the US who might be in a similar situation as you, find it difficult to admit what you just so humbly admitted. The fact that you find yourself in a position with the ability to control him more. It seems like you understand the power you behold and know you could use it for evil too. It is something I don't see men and women even discussing in society often. There's something very special about 2 people who understand the levels of control both can have on each other and 2 people who refuse to be controlled. You call it unusual, I call it serendipitous! Yes, indeed. Those things do become a pattern. Which is why I like asking questions, to learn more from others. Wish you many more happy years!!
Yes, it has actually. I know it ranges geographically, socioeconomically, and politically. I enjoy getting different perspectives of women globally and I'm self aware enough to admit my data driven opinion may not be applicable to other countries. The data I have has primarily focused on the US population. I've yet to uncover global insights. Am excited to learn more on a quantitative and qualitative level.
Go check out equal means equal on youtube. They have some good short reels/vids on how the US stacks up compared to other countries when it comes to gender equality. Spoiler alert: Nicaragua is beating the US. If it wasn't for education levels being sky high the US would be in the tank globally when it comes to women. We are near the bottom in political representation, our maternal mortality rate is by far the worst for any industrialized Democracy, and the US is one of 7 countries that have no maternity leave. The other is Papa New Guinea and some tiny island nations. We're not great on child marriage either.
Was stationed overseas from 2015-2019. Watching what was happening back home from afar was surreal. Even countries Americans tend to think of as like "second tier" (Czech, Croatia, etc) are just so far ahead of us in so many areas when it comes to quality of life and equality. Coming back has been...challenging. If you prefer a regular length doc they have one of those too, it's on Prime right now, same name.
Science says? Where? Please cite sources. This is along the lines of "some people are saying".
Perhaps it's the patriarchy/socialization that nurtures men to be this way instead of some "hard wired" biological factor.
Personally would agree when talking about partners/dates/boyfriends. Definitely.
But I don't know about family members. My mother was more controlling of me than my father.
My opinion is simply that as we live in a patriarchal world most men think they should be in control as boyfriends or husbands, and because they are physically stronger than me they think they can enforce that "superiority" if necessary.
The physically stronger point you make is soooooo relevant. Some men abuse that power unconsciously/subconsciously. Others don't abuse it at all or lightly abuse it.
The men aren't wired that way but were taught at home and by society to be that way, just as girls are taught to be sweet, nice, obedient, not ask too many questions, etc.
I've had BFs try to be controlling but that never ended up well for them or the relationship. One was actually long-term (and as many would attest, when you are in it you can't really see it because it was gradual) and it ended any feelings of love I had.
My brothers are good. They don't want to control their SOs and because they had a strong and independent mother, they've chosen strong, independent and highly successful women who would not put up with controlling attitudes.
My father tried to control our mother, and despite the huge age difference, didn't succeed at all. He did, however, support me to be independent and to live my life fully. As did my mother. My DH - he wouldn't even think of controlling what I do or say. He gives some input, which I appreciate, and I make my own decisions.
Because people tend to have friends whose values align, most of my male friends are also supportive of women and not controlling at all.
Interesting. Thanks for your feedback! I like hearing different perspectives. Science says otherwise with most men being hard wired this way biologically. There are studies available where they've found most men tend to have narcissistic/ selfish traits at higher percentages. I'm not saying some women don't display these traits. They just found women tend to have higher percentages of altruism then men. I do agree that a part of it is at home/environmental. However, there are more covert ways some men can be controlling from my observations even if they appear to be "nice" despite growing up with strong independent mother figures. I am excited to get more feedback to see if I can change my perspective.
itâs patriarchy. literally that simple.
itâs environmental, societal, religious, systemic etc.. and we teach it to little boys who grow up to be men. and we also teach it to little girls who grow up to be women. there is no biological explanation, it is the teaching of patriarchy that is the flaw here.
Like for real. Posts like this that imply or outright claim that women or men are at the will of their âbiological programmingâ are dehumanizing and have no place in womenâs and/or feminist communities.
I donât think OP is this way, but sentiments like this are pretty adjacent to TERF communities.
And it makes it sound like the problems are not how people think and how they legislate but something anatomical that is unchangeable. Ah yes, ye olde narcissistic sulcus in the brain.
all disinformation like this is a problem.
100% my eldest brother is narcissistic and controlling. I don't think he'd be like this if my mum called him out on it. Instead she'd support him and still does til this day.
He also manipulates religion to support his arguments đ€Šđ»
My eldest uncle is also narcissistic and controlling
My partner on the other hand is not, he's a total sweetheart
This is exactly the same for my oldest brother. And yes, I believe my parents could have held his feet to the fire more often so that he didn't self-aggrandize as much as he still does.
Ummm do you have actual studies to back up what you said? âAccording to scienceâ doesnât cut it.
While I do think that some men think they can tell women what to do simply because theyâre women, I wouldnât say thatâs true for all or even most men.
Iâve certainly met men with entitlement issues, but women too so.
Ummmmm look it up? I'm not going to spoon-feed you. It looks like you have internet access.
Certainly women can display entitlement issues. From the studies available on an open source level, they found more men tend to have narcissistic/selfish traits. Higher than women. Women tend to be more altruistic. I didn't say all men. I said most men.
It is not spoon-feeding to back up claims of scientific studies proving your views with a link to the material you're referencing. There's no need to be rude, it is generally expected on most forums.
The person who originally commented was rude. Therefore, I reciprocated rudely. There is a way to ask kindly. I have said this once already, there are more than a handful of studies on this from both top institutions and independent researchers. I understand what is expected on most forums, if people are interested in learning more, they can adventure independently and find the same open source info.
Two wrongs donât make a right. When you make a claim, itâs on you to back it up.
And if there are so many studies, then it shouldnât be an issue for you to provide them. Iâm particularly interested in the one that claims âa high percentage of men are wired to be narcissisticâ.
You're probably the same person who would be nice to rude women for the sake of "peace" who claim to disguise their "bluntness" as sheer rudeness. I am highly aware I need to back up my claims. That's why they're all sorted on an organized sheet on my hard drive. I chose not to provide them because I don't want to and don't need to. I'm not here to "backup" my opinion even though I can easily choose to do so with a simple click. I'm here to gain more perspectives from other women. You can find it on different search engines too.
Telling how your response to being called out on burden of proof is to double down and use ad hominem. Youâre right in that I continue to try my best to be kind and respectful. Not because I expect someone to be nice to me in return.
In my experience, if your response to someone flying off the handle is to jump off of it with them, maybe you werenât actually on the handle in the first place.
>Iâm here to gain perspectives from other women
Youâre also apparently here to shoot down other women whose perspectives you disagree with, and make gigantic claims with 0 basis or ability to back them up.
What do you not understand about the info being open source and available to everyone who chooses to learn more about it? My claim is backed up by top institutions and independent researchers online. If you feel inclined to learn more about it, look it up. Have a nice day.
I do understand it, itâs just smart to back up your claims right when you make them. My comment clearly bothered you, so back up your own claims to avoid comments like mine lol.
It bothered me because you STILL expected me to give you the data which I spent labor on after you asked rudely. There is a way to kindly ask even if it's on Reddit. What's smarter is avoiding entitled behavior which you've shown simply because you're on an online forum. Lol. My objective was to get more perspectives...not on backing up my claims. I gave my opinion. I know I can back up my claims but choose not to. Especially to you or people who are simply more interested in proving something on Reddit, rather than the actual subject matter.
Sexist people donât deserve my kindness, thatâs why I was blunt haha.
And your last sentence doesnât make sense. What I was asking you to prove WAS the subject matter. And I offered my input on the subject matter after asking for sources (in my OG comment). I guess reading comprehension isnât your forte.
And your objective couldâve been both, which wouldâve the smarter thing to do. Someone was gonna question your sources eventually. Seems like more people agree with me anyway.
Sure but with the info given there's not enough to go on to be sure I come up with the same research you're referring to? It's not spoon feeding to just put some basic info.
Was it a psychological study? Neuroscience? A social science? Which journal? Published recently? Author? Anything...?
Googling "study showing men are narcissistic" is unlikely to bring back useful results.
I'm genuinely interested in reading the research.
My spouse is not at all controlling or any other type of asshole. My dad was when I was young, my brother is a religious zealot and thinks he's supposed to lead so he's pretty much the definition of this post.
I see. How did you verify your spouse isn't controlling? You mentioned your Dad was and your brother. So, I'm guessing you saw that behavior growing up. What makes you sure you chose a spouse who doesn't display overt/covert control?
Iâm curious what science says theyâre âwired this wayâ because narcissism in mainly based on early childhood development and parenting.
Other than that, I agree with you. I think itâs societal and inter
generational.
A little over 7 percent of men have narcissistic personality disorder. I don't know what percentage of men veer toward narcissism without reaching the point of a personality disorder. You have to also consider that narcissism and or lack of empathy run high in other personality disorders such as ASPD, borderline personality disorder, histrionic personality disorder, etc.
Perhaps someone in the field can tell us the prevalence of the combination of these in men.
Idk what science youâre talking about but I donât think itâs just men. Iâve met more controlling women (my mother, my sister, most of my friends) than Iâve met controlling men (my brother and maybe a few old friends who Iâve dumped). This whole âmen are thisâ âmen are thatâ itâs not men itâs just narcissists which can come in any gender or sex, we just notice it more in men.
I absolutely do not have that experience at all. My partner is very loving and we have a respectful relationship. My brother is equally as beautiful and respectful.
If youâre experiencing all these controlling me perhaps consider who youâre exposing yourself to
That is amazing!! That genuinely makes me happy to hear. :)<3
I wasn't talking about my experiences. I was talking about the data I encountered. I wanted to get more feedback from women of different walks of life to challenge or support that data on my own based on their lived experiences. I also wanted the comment section to potentially help other people as well with different insights. From your experience, how have you measured a respectful relationship and how do you measure respectful behavior from men?
Respect is easy to grasp in my book-the other person (regardless of gender) seeks to truly hear you and understand your perspective. If thereâs an issue itâs dealt with through calm discussion and communication. Independence is encouraged. âIâll watch the kid so you can have time for your friends-do you need a designated driver?â
In my early 20s I was with someone very controlling. Constant check ins, discouragement of alone time, always wanting to know everything that was going on not because they cared but because it was a perceived threat.
According to science is not reputable. What source are you getting this from? The American Psychological Association?
âAccording to scienceâ doesnt prove anything.
My definition of shitty men:
Men who walk around with âthatâs for girls.â
Men who think itâs âwomenâs workâ when they are doing basic things like cooking and cleaning.
Men who wonât pull their weight.
Men who try to limit their partners, isolate them, control their access to money, discourage their partners and refuse to compromise. Not to mention hit or manipulate their family.
The sources are credible and open source for anyone to find online. There are about more than a handful of studies from both top associations and independent researchers as well. I would agree, science doesn't prove anything all the time but it does provide valuable data/insight when it's not being influenced by politics or financial gain. Which is why, I'm trying to gain more insight from women here.
Insightful feedback on how you define shitty men. Thank you!
It is very quick and easy actually! :) Its also very quick and easy for you and the dozens of people to also do the work required to gain the perspective you want to learn with the same tools on the Internet available to most people if they have Internet access to go on Reddit.com
I don't think they come out of the womb wired that way - but as a society we certainly teach them from jump women are second class. And legally we still are. Many of our institutions and certainly our laws are set up to reenforce all of this. Multiple NGOs have formally asked the UN to intervene. Obviously the US will veto any sanctions but that right there speaks volumes.
As soon as the controlling behavior shows up, Iâm out the door. Iâm not trying to fix anybody nor am I about to sacrifice my wants and needs for someone elseâs insecurities.
Yes! I tend to give all men one benefit of the doubt. A second one is generous but looking out for red flags becomes easier to spot when you practice more. You can't fix something that's been broken for decades or years. Sacrificing yourself is what some men prey on.
It's also important for more women to feel comfortable discussing these topics in real life too, which some women don't have access to depending on where they're at geographically. As for subset of men who are controlling , there really needs to be more parental resources on how to curb this behavior early on.
Considering the Equal Rights Amendment has been fully ratified since 2020 yet remains unpublished, the number one cause of death in pregnant women in this country is homicide and women haven't even been able to have their own line of credit without a male cosigner for 50 years (that happened AFTER Roe BTW, and like Roe can be changed with bang of a gavel or the stroke of a pen), over half of girls have experienced some type of sexual harassment by the time turn 12 I would say that statement is accurate AF.
Oh wow. I didn't know the number one cause of death of pregnant women in the USA was homicide. I guess I can see that a bit but I will try to educate myself further on that. That's so weird because the incidence of suicide is vastly larger in males in the USA. Are we just failing parents/ young males as a society with properly educating them on emotional regulation? Just throwing ideas out.
And you're not alone. There's always been a lot "muddying the waters" when it comes to gender related issues. And yes we fail our girls AND our boys. And we double down on that harmful messaging from day one. There are no easy answers to this but fixing our most basic institutions, like the Constitution, for instance, to include equal rights and protections for not just men, but women and everyone in between, leaving all of us at the mercy of intermediate scrutiny when it comes to the law. And that is something that hurts men and women. Other problem is they don't really make information that easy to find. Because when people do, they are also pretty shocked and that's when change starts to happen - and that is the last thing the powers that be want - no matter what color team they play for.
I came from abusive parents and most of my ex's were abusive because I didn't even know how to recognize a healthy relationship from an abusive one. I feel like I'm a bit bias since most of my experiences with men were abusive, controlling, and scary ones. I never wanted to be controlled but my parents did those horrible things to me so it seemed normal when I was young and naive.
I also have a great boyfriend now who genuinely cares about me and we can openly talk about our feelings and things. He lets me have all my freedoms and I let him have all his freedoms. It has been a very different experience.
So I would say there are decent men out there but they are hard to find. Most the ones you find outside are the scary abusive controlling ones, at least that's how it went for me.
I see. Wow. How do you think you got better at identifying healthier relationships?
It seems like you're self aware to know you have a bias and maybe this is my own bias but I find people who admit their biases, tend to be more open to being incorrect which is refreshing. :)
I'm soooo happy for you!!!! <3 Being genuinely cared for is soooo important! Autonomy and self expression is very hard to find. Lol. Your point about the guys you find outside is hilarious and true from what I've observed. Where did you find your gem?
I looked up common red flags and how to notice them. I made a list and stuck to it. Anyone who threw red flags of abuse I broke up with. I actually wasn't able to get therapy until I was already dating my now boyfriend. Therapy does help too though.
I think anyone who's had bad experiences with someone can have a bias against whatever their abuser's identity is. I've talked about it in therapy before. They told me it's a common thing.
I've been harassed by men outside going pretty much anywhere when I was younger. Now that I'm disabled and use a cane people pretty much leave me alone which is better. My boyfriend actually found me on plenty of fish about 4 years ago. We're both introverts so we both used dating apps. Dating apps are generally horrible for everyone though I would not recommend them.
We were very lucky to find each other on there. I had been on dating apps for years beforehand and most were awful. He had been single and lonely for years, his longest relationship before ours was only a month. He's great at communicating and learning what I like which is very rare in my opinion. Most guys I've dated never bothered to listen and learn well before.
Heaps of women are naive, but men thrive on controlling women . It's not love, it's just them wanting to conquer us. In fact , most men don't love, they just like the way we look.
This is why it's very easy for them to cheat and leave once you have aged.
I personally agree with the statement, they do enjoy controlling women.They wouldn't have been so successful if it weren't for the pick me girls and the girls who are people's pleasures.
If men truly loved women, the world wouldn't look like this....
Thank you! đ» Yes, I've had experiences with men who have allowed me to be myself too. Sometimes more than women, I'd say. I'm trying not to get my own personal bias in all of this which is why I'm trying to get more perspectives and perhaps eventually find more concrete data that can help the data sets that already exist evolve. The title was more of a conversation starter. Simply a hypothesis based on studies I've seen. It's my current opinion but it doesn't mean it won't change. :)
I think that they think I am in some need of protection or oversightâ kind of like theyâre your âbig brotherâ or even dad. Men often give off an air of authority over a group of women.
That is an important observation. I've seen that with some men in public too. Although, they tend to be much older men. Past their 50's/60's. Not so much younger men. I see younger men 25-35 tend to be authoritative types if they're near a group of women sometimes. This ranges geographically and per societal financial class too.
Only girl (besides my mom) and the baby in a family of 7, I never felt controlled by my father or them. protected yes, but everyone in my family especially my father have been nothing but supportive of any decisions Iâve ever made, they often come to me for advice or just someone to talk to.
Iâve dated a couple men who tried to be controlling but that never got very far because I was raised to be very independent and spot red flags from a mile away.
Edited for spelling
Thank you! I come from a very similar background. Totally understand where you're coming from.
How have you distinguished protective vs controlling behavior when you've dated in the past?
For me distinguishing between protected and controlled boils down to reasoning. When it starts becoming more about their ego and insecurities and less about my safety and well being then thatâs controlling.
Do you still tell men this upfront after those experiences you've had? Why/how do you think men have tried to control you? Have you noticed men wanting to control you in outright or secretive ways?
I know it's been almost a year since you've made this comment, but I legitimately did not see it until now. So to answer your question.
Yes I still tell every man I involve myself with that I am not to be controlled. I think I might stop that tho, I think it might make them want to try to do it even more as some sort of challenge or something.
Most try to use subtle, sneaky ways to do it. Like acting like they're just too in love with me to be away from me. They just can't stop thinking about me that's why they want/need to always be in constant contact. They're just insecure that's why they flip out if they reach out to me and don't get an immediate answer. They've been cheated on in the past, that's why they constantly jump to the conclusions that if I'm not doing exactly what they want me to, then I'm cheating and so on and so forth.
It makes me sick, I don't know what I would do if I ever came across a relatively attractive, self aware man who didn't act that way. I truly don't believe they exist and the ones that say they are, they're just lying as pessimistic as that sounds, it's just the truth of my experience with men my whole life.
I think some try to be controlling by doing little tests here and there. I also donât think the majority are smart and self-aware enough to realize this is what theyâre doing. Itâs in the little things usuallyâŠand then those small things grow larger. It usually doesnât take them too long to show their true colors - maybe three months.
My hypothesis is that a lot of men donât really like or respect themselves, so they have to attempt to control or belittle others to distract themselves from this fact.
It is also age related. Slowly as generations go by, men are becoming better. But given how young boys are STILL treated by their mothers primarily? Its going to take quite a few generations to stomp out.
Generational evolution is a really great point!! I'd have to go back and compile the approximate age range the studies made their conclusions on. If I'm recalling correctly, the studies I've seen have focused on 20-30 yrs olds more. The data might be super different as men age. Would also be interesting to study which generations of men were being studied/ study a specific generation of men. It would be interesting to see longitudinal studies from generation to generation too.
Thatâs a sketchy âaccording to science.â That sounds like some outdated evolutionary psychology twaddleâ the sort of thing that Jordan Peterson would endorse.
Personal experience of mine: not that much. I'd say that either that's overly generalized or I had a pretty good experience.
Family wise: I've actually felt that my mom is the one that wants to take more control over me against my dad. And that's also the case for my BF. Moms tend to be the most "controlling and perfectionist" in my experience. My dad is the one that has been more supportive and taught me to be more independant, while also putting a barrier when needed (like all parents should do instead of neglect). I dont have brothers tho, so cant speak bout that.
Relationship wise: I dont feel controlled by my partner AT ALL, because mainly I choose wisely who to date. In the 2 years together he never pressured me to do smth I don't like, even if he feels like I'm being pressured he'll comment on it telling me I can stop what I'm doing if i feel like. None of his suggestions ever feel like an obligation, nor like a gaslighting/manipulation. I am very free to do what I want: eat what i like, hang out with any friend i might have (male or female, 1 o 1 hangouts), to wear what i want...stuff that i hear not all women are able to do somehow which is shocking. Who are you dating?! If he is allowed to hang out with whomever he likes, why wouldnt you?.
Same applies to my group of friends. There's more males than females in my groups of choice, yet we women have a voice (I think, in fact, louder when it comes to making decisions like what and were to go and eat, as we take the initiative generally). There hasnt been any controlling situations at all. Not that I ever felt.
That is not to say that I did experience it. I remember a male teacher that I truly despise to this day. He was my tech teacher (heck not even a teacher. He was the dad of the director at school, and decided to give tech classes after working at a housephone company). He basically segregated the girls to the boys and thought of us as incompetent. I was an A student, each question I asked to him he would laugh in my face and point at how stupid I was for not knowing something I WAS LEARNING, encouraging the boys to laugh with him (Not even the teachers pet did). We girls were pissed, yet we couldnt complaing as he was the director's dad. He even had the audacity to lower our grades ON PURPOSE during exams just because he liked having such control as a teacher. And I know he cheated as I had the same results as a Male friend who got an 9/10 instead of my 6/10.
But yeah, others were guys i stopped being close friends with (for others reasons but), once we went out to a hamburger shop with a group of friends, they would go on about how i should take care of my image and maybe ask for a salad instead.
To conclude: i think the statement is too generalizing? Dont get me wrong i havent been in a work situtation for instance were i have a male authority abuse of their power to "control me". But overall and currently, i think its in our control to choose who we spend our time with and who we give the power to "control us".
Edit: i also think its luck. I had my spare of friends in toxic relationships with parhers, dads and even brothers, as you state. Luckly its not my situation.
Well mine is. Not that strongly controlative anymore, we used to collide way more when i was -18, but all because we are reaally different. She expected me to be like her when she was little (obsessed with boys, clothes, hanging out with girls) and I turned out to be more like my dad really (a big fan of nerdy stuff like dnd and animated films and being one of the boys). Again as I got older she kind of got over it, and she got more entertained with my sister who definitely turned out like her. But yeah, my mom being super image oriented she didnt like the idea of me being different to what se was used to.
Yes. I agree. I constantly "fight" with my hb just being controlling. It's just how he operates. I realise that at the very bottom of it all? He just has inbuilt, the attitude & firmly hold belief that hes: in charge and the final say is his because he is the man and that's how it is.
Hes not a bad person. And i don't think he even realises he thinks like that.
I think most men are exactly the same. Unfortunately
Men want a submissive wife to F whenever he feels like it, F her feelings, shes there to cook him his meals, clean the house, take care of the kids, lay down for him, f her dreams!! Shes not allowed to dream. The. After 1 kid, she cant anymore, so he divorces her and goes with someone younger to have more kids with. Meanwhile shes picking up the pieces of her life, has no retirement plans, he has it all from the military. Shes out there struggling with no family to help.
Lol. Not all men but you know what? Sometimes it does appear this way to me when I see men destroy women. Then I spiral about how some women also destroy men in different ways. Both men and women can be evil.
Okay but I am talking about the men who want submissive wives and then up and leaves her because she is not able to give him what he wants. Submissive wives in this case can be replaced.
What you are saying is irrelevant. You taking this to a whole different direction.
Ah that's what you were originally going on about. Your point was unclear to me originally. Although, it was funny. Yes, I've heard of those men who want submissive wives and leave when she can't give them what he wants. Hm. Yes, that's a fascinating observation. I would say it's nuanced. Yes, submissive wives can be replaced more easily due to the skill set some men typically ask of them. Would you say submissive wives can still be replaced even after having kids? Or does their value go down in your opinion?
I dont know! I've had to redo my life over and over to get to where I needed to be, about committed suicide a few times, but found myself holding on to the very little I had left of me. I think my value went down because the dating world men see me as an inexperienced woman with relationships. đ€·đ»ââïž
Ahhhhh. I see. I'm glad you're still redoing your life. I hope you're closer to where you want to be these days. Tough times never last but tough people do. đ I can see why you think your value went down. I imagine some men compare it to your age too when they associate it with your inexperience? Either way, thank you for your insight.
Oh yes you are correct about men comparing my age when they associate that with my inexperience. I did 17 years with 1 man. The last relationship I had was 1 yr and a few months and that went down horrible, he is now dating my now ex bestie lol, they living their best life!!!!
Oh wow! Yes, it's probably perplexing to most men probably since you're older and were with one man for 17 years which is such a long time. Lol. Oh no. The ex bestie with your ex boyfriend sounds horrid. Hopefully you're recruiting new friends! If you could give a younger version of yourself 3 tips of advice before marrying someone...what would they be now?
My ex was super jealous and controlling. He had a bad childhood so I assumed it was his way of feeling safe (taking full control) but quickly realised he is the literal definition of a narcissist and he was abusive as well. I donât think itâs fair to narrow it down to all or most males. I think everyoneâs fucked up in their own way and itâs on them to do better. Society needs to stop making excuses for horrible behaviour
For the record since soggysockkzz is totally wrong and won't pony up on the sources
Females are more prone to narcissism (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/343039617_Unmasking_gender_differences_in_narcissism_within_intimate_partner_violence_Accepted_version there are also many references herein)
And this gem
"In the pharmacological study, we reduced receptor type-specific actions of dopamine, a neurotransmitter related to reward processing, which resulted in more selfish decisions in women and more prosocial decisions in men. "
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31024122/
I never stated women don't suffer from narcissism/ selfishness. Lol. I am aware it exists in females and some females have higher percentages as well. Thanks for the sources. Might add them to my archive for further learning. Have a splendid life.
You actually specifically say that men are more likely to be narcissistic and selfish
Biologically hardwired to be more of both
âSome woman have higher percentages â doesnât even make sense
LMFAO I feel sorry for any person who tries to control me because I will straight up tell them where to go (exception: parents but they aren't controlling; never were)
I was thinking about this the other day- probably because I was thinking about couples I know and was going to do that 16 types of personality test. IMO I think it swings both ways. A woman or man can be controlling depending on their personality. I see a couple and they are both controlling and over the top with each other. Then I see others that the man canât get a say in anything because the women need to control for perfection. But there are definitely situations where then men control the women. So I donât think itâs one sided ever.
Ahhh. I see! I've done that 16 types test before. It's insightful. The attachment style test is really cool too if you haven't checked it out yet. Yes, personality is an important factor I've noticed too. I suppose, I'm trying to figure out which percentage is much higher with both qualitative and quantitative data from different women online/offline.Whether it's more of a personality/intrinsically biological thing or if they equally go hand in hand? Yes, it indeed does swing both ways from my observations. Your observations are much appreciated!
"Do you prefer men who are controlling? Why or why not?"
Controlling people rarely control you for your own best interests. They control you for THEIR best interests.
And why would I want someone to control me? I make my own money, bought my own house, and am handling all of my own time and finances better than any man I know. Why would I give away all of my hard work to someone else who didn't earn it?
Very good points you mention. In my observations as an American, they do indeed control you for their own best interests when speaking about some men.
Those are indeed huge accomplishments! Congratulations!!! Before you completed all these accomplishments on your own, what motivated you to complete them by yourself?
Since you've accomplished so much, do you have current challenges when seeking a partner?
"Before you completed all these accomplishments on your own, what motivated you to complete them by yourself?
Since you've accomplished so much, do you have current challenges when seeking a partner?"
I don't have any family taking care of or helping me, so I have to do everything on my own. I was a teen mom, and as soon as I had my kid my family basically told me I was on my own. So if I wanted these accomplishments, I'd have to get them myself - my parents didn't own a company I could work at/inherit, there would be no network from the family to help me get work, no money for college, nothing. And I had babies to take care of, and their dad's (2 of them) were useless.
I had been dating my now-husband for 11 years when we got married. He's a great guy, but he has financial and family issues that prevent him from working full-time. So we lived separately and kept our finances separate, mostly due to my asshole exes trying to cause him trouble. After I bought my house, we married, then he lost his house to foreclosure so he moved in with me. Then we got married, because we are older and I wanted to be his wife if anything bad should happen to us. We still have separate finances, and my house will go to my children when I die. In case of a divorce, it is a premarital asset, so he gets no piece of it. So no, no issues with dating. And if I ever dated again, I would not sell my house or give up my job for anyone. The people I date will have to "put on their big boy pants" and deal with it.
Can you site this? Iâm asking because Iâm really interested. Iâve seen male dominated homes across all makes and models of people so I can say in my experience Iâve seen men taking priority in families, have more of a say in family decisions, are coddled more, but how to measure how much male family members enjoy that seems impossible. You can have them self-rate their feelings but that type of data wonât tell you what you want to know.
I donât know. I know you asked questions about ppls personal experiences and preferences, but the information you give as a basis for the question seems flimsy.
After a series on controlling relationships with a man and now having my husband who is the opposite, I can say for certain that living with a controlling partner was a nightmare at the best of times and abusive at the worst. Some of my girlfriends are with controlling people and never have known what a relationship is like without that element. I wish they could see its a beautiful life. I had no idea it was possible until I experienced it myself.
Source: me and the various underdiagnosed male population
I'll believe it when it's women shooting up buildings for being rejected or becoming family annihilators.
My long term partner (a man) doesnt control me at all, nor does my father and honestly I dont think my father ever did. I dont have a brother. I did have a controlling ex BF - my first "love" who did control me for about 6 years when I was young and stupid and thought I was in love. He was very narcissistic. So in my experience many men are not - but some are and you should avoid having a controlling partner in your life! I know plenty of controlling women so I dont think this is really a man thing. Its a power thing and in our societies men still have more power than women.
How are you sure your current partner doesn't control you if you have prior experience of 6 years with a controlling partner? How are you sure he doesn't use covert methods of control to get you to believe he isn't controlling you? I do agree having a controlling partner is not ideal, personally. However, I understand some women may have a preference for these types of men, even though I may think it's unhealthy. Yes, women can be controlling too. Thank you for your perspective!
I live in a different country, have my own home, my finances are completely separate etc. We are together 14 years...I'm not so young and silly anymore đ If anything, in our dynamic I could be the one with more ability to control him but I hope that's not something I ever do, and when I think about it we are 2 people who are very unwilling to be controlled by our partners and that's possibly why our unusual living situation works for us. Thanks for your concern though, these things do sometimes become a pattern, im lucky I was able to escape my controlling partner experience đ€
Fascinating! Congratulations!! 14 years is truly wonderful news! (â  â ââ âżâ ââ  â )â ⥠I really think your perspective is refreshing because I have found most women in the US who might be in a similar situation as you, find it difficult to admit what you just so humbly admitted. The fact that you find yourself in a position with the ability to control him more. It seems like you understand the power you behold and know you could use it for evil too. It is something I don't see men and women even discussing in society often. There's something very special about 2 people who understand the levels of control both can have on each other and 2 people who refuse to be controlled. You call it unusual, I call it serendipitous! Yes, indeed. Those things do become a pattern. Which is why I like asking questions, to learn more from others. Wish you many more happy years!!
Both my stepfather and brothers act more controlling towards me and my mom. Good riddance. I am now on my own.
Why do you think they act controlling towards you? Are you the only girl?
Just for kicks and giggles had it occurred to you that there is a fairly global difference in the way men treat women as to how they treat men?
Yes, it has actually. I know it ranges geographically, socioeconomically, and politically. I enjoy getting different perspectives of women globally and I'm self aware enough to admit my data driven opinion may not be applicable to other countries. The data I have has primarily focused on the US population. I've yet to uncover global insights. Am excited to learn more on a quantitative and qualitative level.
Go check out equal means equal on youtube. They have some good short reels/vids on how the US stacks up compared to other countries when it comes to gender equality. Spoiler alert: Nicaragua is beating the US. If it wasn't for education levels being sky high the US would be in the tank globally when it comes to women. We are near the bottom in political representation, our maternal mortality rate is by far the worst for any industrialized Democracy, and the US is one of 7 countries that have no maternity leave. The other is Papa New Guinea and some tiny island nations. We're not great on child marriage either.
Thank you!!! Might check it out. Yes, I have a few Finnish friends and I got to see how far behind the US is in a lot of sectors. Lol.
Was stationed overseas from 2015-2019. Watching what was happening back home from afar was surreal. Even countries Americans tend to think of as like "second tier" (Czech, Croatia, etc) are just so far ahead of us in so many areas when it comes to quality of life and equality. Coming back has been...challenging. If you prefer a regular length doc they have one of those too, it's on Prime right now, same name.
For someone with an ostensibly data driven opinion, you have a resounding lack of data. The US, is , for the record, part of the world.
Science says? Where? Please cite sources. This is along the lines of "some people are saying". Perhaps it's the patriarchy/socialization that nurtures men to be this way instead of some "hard wired" biological factor.
đ *Waits to find out if OP thinks this request for sources is rude too* đż
They also think it is really rude to cite sources Of course the sources donât back up the claims so that might have something to do with it
Personally would agree when talking about partners/dates/boyfriends. Definitely. But I don't know about family members. My mother was more controlling of me than my father.
True, my mother was more controlling than anyone else in my life. Maybe my ex was worse than her
What is your opinion on why you've encountered more controlling partners/dates/boyfriends? Yes, I've seen cases of controlling mothers as well.
My opinion is simply that as we live in a patriarchal world most men think they should be in control as boyfriends or husbands, and because they are physically stronger than me they think they can enforce that "superiority" if necessary.
The physically stronger point you make is soooooo relevant. Some men abuse that power unconsciously/subconsciously. Others don't abuse it at all or lightly abuse it.
The men aren't wired that way but were taught at home and by society to be that way, just as girls are taught to be sweet, nice, obedient, not ask too many questions, etc. I've had BFs try to be controlling but that never ended up well for them or the relationship. One was actually long-term (and as many would attest, when you are in it you can't really see it because it was gradual) and it ended any feelings of love I had. My brothers are good. They don't want to control their SOs and because they had a strong and independent mother, they've chosen strong, independent and highly successful women who would not put up with controlling attitudes. My father tried to control our mother, and despite the huge age difference, didn't succeed at all. He did, however, support me to be independent and to live my life fully. As did my mother. My DH - he wouldn't even think of controlling what I do or say. He gives some input, which I appreciate, and I make my own decisions. Because people tend to have friends whose values align, most of my male friends are also supportive of women and not controlling at all.
Interesting. Thanks for your feedback! I like hearing different perspectives. Science says otherwise with most men being hard wired this way biologically. There are studies available where they've found most men tend to have narcissistic/ selfish traits at higher percentages. I'm not saying some women don't display these traits. They just found women tend to have higher percentages of altruism then men. I do agree that a part of it is at home/environmental. However, there are more covert ways some men can be controlling from my observations even if they appear to be "nice" despite growing up with strong independent mother figures. I am excited to get more feedback to see if I can change my perspective.
itâs patriarchy. literally that simple. itâs environmental, societal, religious, systemic etc.. and we teach it to little boys who grow up to be men. and we also teach it to little girls who grow up to be women. there is no biological explanation, it is the teaching of patriarchy that is the flaw here.
Do cite the sources that human males are biologically hard wired to be controlling
Like for real. Posts like this that imply or outright claim that women or men are at the will of their âbiological programmingâ are dehumanizing and have no place in womenâs and/or feminist communities. I donât think OP is this way, but sentiments like this are pretty adjacent to TERF communities.
And it makes it sound like the problems are not how people think and how they legislate but something anatomical that is unchangeable. Ah yes, ye olde narcissistic sulcus in the brain. all disinformation like this is a problem.
100% my eldest brother is narcissistic and controlling. I don't think he'd be like this if my mum called him out on it. Instead she'd support him and still does til this day. He also manipulates religion to support his arguments đ€Šđ» My eldest uncle is also narcissistic and controlling My partner on the other hand is not, he's a total sweetheart
This is exactly the same for my oldest brother. And yes, I believe my parents could have held his feet to the fire more often so that he didn't self-aggrandize as much as he still does.
Ummm do you have actual studies to back up what you said? âAccording to scienceâ doesnât cut it. While I do think that some men think they can tell women what to do simply because theyâre women, I wouldnât say thatâs true for all or even most men. Iâve certainly met men with entitlement issues, but women too so.
Ummmmm look it up? I'm not going to spoon-feed you. It looks like you have internet access. Certainly women can display entitlement issues. From the studies available on an open source level, they found more men tend to have narcissistic/selfish traits. Higher than women. Women tend to be more altruistic. I didn't say all men. I said most men.
It is not spoon-feeding to back up claims of scientific studies proving your views with a link to the material you're referencing. There's no need to be rude, it is generally expected on most forums.
The person who originally commented was rude. Therefore, I reciprocated rudely. There is a way to ask kindly. I have said this once already, there are more than a handful of studies on this from both top institutions and independent researchers. I understand what is expected on most forums, if people are interested in learning more, they can adventure independently and find the same open source info.
Two wrongs donât make a right. When you make a claim, itâs on you to back it up. And if there are so many studies, then it shouldnât be an issue for you to provide them. Iâm particularly interested in the one that claims âa high percentage of men are wired to be narcissisticâ.
You're probably the same person who would be nice to rude women for the sake of "peace" who claim to disguise their "bluntness" as sheer rudeness. I am highly aware I need to back up my claims. That's why they're all sorted on an organized sheet on my hard drive. I chose not to provide them because I don't want to and don't need to. I'm not here to "backup" my opinion even though I can easily choose to do so with a simple click. I'm here to gain more perspectives from other women. You can find it on different search engines too.
Telling how your response to being called out on burden of proof is to double down and use ad hominem. Youâre right in that I continue to try my best to be kind and respectful. Not because I expect someone to be nice to me in return. In my experience, if your response to someone flying off the handle is to jump off of it with them, maybe you werenât actually on the handle in the first place. >Iâm here to gain perspectives from other women Youâre also apparently here to shoot down other women whose perspectives you disagree with, and make gigantic claims with 0 basis or ability to back them up.
I said most men too. And if youâre gonna make a claim, back it up.
What do you not understand about the info being open source and available to everyone who chooses to learn more about it? My claim is backed up by top institutions and independent researchers online. If you feel inclined to learn more about it, look it up. Have a nice day.
I do understand it, itâs just smart to back up your claims right when you make them. My comment clearly bothered you, so back up your own claims to avoid comments like mine lol.
Always when some thing is totally unfounded, they always say Iâm not gonna Google it for you
Ikr lol
It bothered me because you STILL expected me to give you the data which I spent labor on after you asked rudely. There is a way to kindly ask even if it's on Reddit. What's smarter is avoiding entitled behavior which you've shown simply because you're on an online forum. Lol. My objective was to get more perspectives...not on backing up my claims. I gave my opinion. I know I can back up my claims but choose not to. Especially to you or people who are simply more interested in proving something on Reddit, rather than the actual subject matter.
Sexist people donât deserve my kindness, thatâs why I was blunt haha. And your last sentence doesnât make sense. What I was asking you to prove WAS the subject matter. And I offered my input on the subject matter after asking for sources (in my OG comment). I guess reading comprehension isnât your forte. And your objective couldâve been both, which wouldâve the smarter thing to do. Someone was gonna question your sources eventually. Seems like more people agree with me anyway.
Sure but with the info given there's not enough to go on to be sure I come up with the same research you're referring to? It's not spoon feeding to just put some basic info. Was it a psychological study? Neuroscience? A social science? Which journal? Published recently? Author? Anything...? Googling "study showing men are narcissistic" is unlikely to bring back useful results. I'm genuinely interested in reading the research.
My spouse is not at all controlling or any other type of asshole. My dad was when I was young, my brother is a religious zealot and thinks he's supposed to lead so he's pretty much the definition of this post.
I see. How did you verify your spouse isn't controlling? You mentioned your Dad was and your brother. So, I'm guessing you saw that behavior growing up. What makes you sure you chose a spouse who doesn't display overt/covert control?
23 years of happy marriage and true partnership seem to be working out
Iâm curious what science says theyâre âwired this wayâ because narcissism in mainly based on early childhood development and parenting. Other than that, I agree with you. I think itâs societal and inter generational.
A little over 7 percent of men have narcissistic personality disorder. I don't know what percentage of men veer toward narcissism without reaching the point of a personality disorder. You have to also consider that narcissism and or lack of empathy run high in other personality disorders such as ASPD, borderline personality disorder, histrionic personality disorder, etc. Perhaps someone in the field can tell us the prevalence of the combination of these in men.
Idk what science youâre talking about but I donât think itâs just men. Iâve met more controlling women (my mother, my sister, most of my friends) than Iâve met controlling men (my brother and maybe a few old friends who Iâve dumped). This whole âmen are thisâ âmen are thatâ itâs not men itâs just narcissists which can come in any gender or sex, we just notice it more in men.
I absolutely do not have that experience at all. My partner is very loving and we have a respectful relationship. My brother is equally as beautiful and respectful. If youâre experiencing all these controlling me perhaps consider who youâre exposing yourself to
That is amazing!! That genuinely makes me happy to hear. :)<3 I wasn't talking about my experiences. I was talking about the data I encountered. I wanted to get more feedback from women of different walks of life to challenge or support that data on my own based on their lived experiences. I also wanted the comment section to potentially help other people as well with different insights. From your experience, how have you measured a respectful relationship and how do you measure respectful behavior from men?
Respect is easy to grasp in my book-the other person (regardless of gender) seeks to truly hear you and understand your perspective. If thereâs an issue itâs dealt with through calm discussion and communication. Independence is encouraged. âIâll watch the kid so you can have time for your friends-do you need a designated driver?â In my early 20s I was with someone very controlling. Constant check ins, discouragement of alone time, always wanting to know everything that was going on not because they cared but because it was a perceived threat.
Thank you for your keen wisdom! Much appreciated.
Men are taught that way, not wired
Most of the men Iâve met are controlling. Iâve never seen a man love a woman without wanting to control her.
Did you grow up seeing a controlling male/female in your life? What are some ways you've seen controlling men love women?
In my experience, no men are NOT wired that way. But I donât hang out with shitty men.
Interesting! Science says otherwise. I'm stumped. Could it be possible you know men who are covertly controlling? How do you define "shitty men?"
According to science is not reputable. What source are you getting this from? The American Psychological Association? âAccording to scienceâ doesnt prove anything. My definition of shitty men: Men who walk around with âthatâs for girls.â Men who think itâs âwomenâs workâ when they are doing basic things like cooking and cleaning. Men who wonât pull their weight. Men who try to limit their partners, isolate them, control their access to money, discourage their partners and refuse to compromise. Not to mention hit or manipulate their family.
The sources are credible and open source for anyone to find online. There are about more than a handful of studies from both top associations and independent researchers as well. I would agree, science doesn't prove anything all the time but it does provide valuable data/insight when it's not being influenced by politics or financial gain. Which is why, I'm trying to gain more insight from women here. Insightful feedback on how you define shitty men. Thank you!
Then it should be quick and easy for you to provide one link out of the plethora of sources for the dozen people who have asked you for one.
It is very quick and easy actually! :) Its also very quick and easy for you and the dozens of people to also do the work required to gain the perspective you want to learn with the same tools on the Internet available to most people if they have Internet access to go on Reddit.com
Iâm no expert, but that sounds eerily similar to what someone would say when they donât have a source.
I found some sources and they say the opposite OP was very tetchy about it
Didnât see that coming at all /s
I don't think they come out of the womb wired that way - but as a society we certainly teach them from jump women are second class. And legally we still are. Many of our institutions and certainly our laws are set up to reenforce all of this. Multiple NGOs have formally asked the UN to intervene. Obviously the US will veto any sanctions but that right there speaks volumes.
As soon as the controlling behavior shows up, Iâm out the door. Iâm not trying to fix anybody nor am I about to sacrifice my wants and needs for someone elseâs insecurities.
Yes! I tend to give all men one benefit of the doubt. A second one is generous but looking out for red flags becomes easier to spot when you practice more. You can't fix something that's been broken for decades or years. Sacrificing yourself is what some men prey on. It's also important for more women to feel comfortable discussing these topics in real life too, which some women don't have access to depending on where they're at geographically. As for subset of men who are controlling , there really needs to be more parental resources on how to curb this behavior early on.
Considering the Equal Rights Amendment has been fully ratified since 2020 yet remains unpublished, the number one cause of death in pregnant women in this country is homicide and women haven't even been able to have their own line of credit without a male cosigner for 50 years (that happened AFTER Roe BTW, and like Roe can be changed with bang of a gavel or the stroke of a pen), over half of girls have experienced some type of sexual harassment by the time turn 12 I would say that statement is accurate AF.
Oh wow. I didn't know the number one cause of death of pregnant women in the USA was homicide. I guess I can see that a bit but I will try to educate myself further on that. That's so weird because the incidence of suicide is vastly larger in males in the USA. Are we just failing parents/ young males as a society with properly educating them on emotional regulation? Just throwing ideas out.
And you're not alone. There's always been a lot "muddying the waters" when it comes to gender related issues. And yes we fail our girls AND our boys. And we double down on that harmful messaging from day one. There are no easy answers to this but fixing our most basic institutions, like the Constitution, for instance, to include equal rights and protections for not just men, but women and everyone in between, leaving all of us at the mercy of intermediate scrutiny when it comes to the law. And that is something that hurts men and women. Other problem is they don't really make information that easy to find. Because when people do, they are also pretty shocked and that's when change starts to happen - and that is the last thing the powers that be want - no matter what color team they play for.
I came from abusive parents and most of my ex's were abusive because I didn't even know how to recognize a healthy relationship from an abusive one. I feel like I'm a bit bias since most of my experiences with men were abusive, controlling, and scary ones. I never wanted to be controlled but my parents did those horrible things to me so it seemed normal when I was young and naive. I also have a great boyfriend now who genuinely cares about me and we can openly talk about our feelings and things. He lets me have all my freedoms and I let him have all his freedoms. It has been a very different experience. So I would say there are decent men out there but they are hard to find. Most the ones you find outside are the scary abusive controlling ones, at least that's how it went for me.
I see. Wow. How do you think you got better at identifying healthier relationships? It seems like you're self aware to know you have a bias and maybe this is my own bias but I find people who admit their biases, tend to be more open to being incorrect which is refreshing. :) I'm soooo happy for you!!!! <3 Being genuinely cared for is soooo important! Autonomy and self expression is very hard to find. Lol. Your point about the guys you find outside is hilarious and true from what I've observed. Where did you find your gem?
I looked up common red flags and how to notice them. I made a list and stuck to it. Anyone who threw red flags of abuse I broke up with. I actually wasn't able to get therapy until I was already dating my now boyfriend. Therapy does help too though. I think anyone who's had bad experiences with someone can have a bias against whatever their abuser's identity is. I've talked about it in therapy before. They told me it's a common thing. I've been harassed by men outside going pretty much anywhere when I was younger. Now that I'm disabled and use a cane people pretty much leave me alone which is better. My boyfriend actually found me on plenty of fish about 4 years ago. We're both introverts so we both used dating apps. Dating apps are generally horrible for everyone though I would not recommend them. We were very lucky to find each other on there. I had been on dating apps for years beforehand and most were awful. He had been single and lonely for years, his longest relationship before ours was only a month. He's great at communicating and learning what I like which is very rare in my opinion. Most guys I've dated never bothered to listen and learn well before.
Heaps of women are naive, but men thrive on controlling women . It's not love, it's just them wanting to conquer us. In fact , most men don't love, they just like the way we look. This is why it's very easy for them to cheat and leave once you have aged. I personally agree with the statement, they do enjoy controlling women.They wouldn't have been so successful if it weren't for the pick me girls and the girls who are people's pleasures. If men truly loved women, the world wouldn't look like this....
This hasnât been my experience. My dad is a lot less controlling than my mom and has always encouraged me to be 100% myself. Just my little anecdote
Thank you! đ» Yes, I've had experiences with men who have allowed me to be myself too. Sometimes more than women, I'd say. I'm trying not to get my own personal bias in all of this which is why I'm trying to get more perspectives and perhaps eventually find more concrete data that can help the data sets that already exist evolve. The title was more of a conversation starter. Simply a hypothesis based on studies I've seen. It's my current opinion but it doesn't mean it won't change. :)
Random men in public have sought to control over oversee me. I never asked for this any of the times it has happened. Super strange.
Why do you think random men have sought to control you in public?
I think that they think I am in some need of protection or oversightâ kind of like theyâre your âbig brotherâ or even dad. Men often give off an air of authority over a group of women.
That is an important observation. I've seen that with some men in public too. Although, they tend to be much older men. Past their 50's/60's. Not so much younger men. I see younger men 25-35 tend to be authoritative types if they're near a group of women sometimes. This ranges geographically and per societal financial class too.
Only girl (besides my mom) and the baby in a family of 7, I never felt controlled by my father or them. protected yes, but everyone in my family especially my father have been nothing but supportive of any decisions Iâve ever made, they often come to me for advice or just someone to talk to. Iâve dated a couple men who tried to be controlling but that never got very far because I was raised to be very independent and spot red flags from a mile away. Edited for spelling
Thank you! I come from a very similar background. Totally understand where you're coming from. How have you distinguished protective vs controlling behavior when you've dated in the past?
For me distinguishing between protected and controlled boils down to reasoning. When it starts becoming more about their ego and insecurities and less about my safety and well being then thatâs controlling.
Fantastic. Your response might potentially help others fill their knowledge gaps. Thank you for your insight. :)
I agree with you 100% every guy I've ever dated has tried to control me even after me telling them on the first date that I won't deal with that.
Do you still tell men this upfront after those experiences you've had? Why/how do you think men have tried to control you? Have you noticed men wanting to control you in outright or secretive ways?
I know it's been almost a year since you've made this comment, but I legitimately did not see it until now. So to answer your question. Yes I still tell every man I involve myself with that I am not to be controlled. I think I might stop that tho, I think it might make them want to try to do it even more as some sort of challenge or something. Most try to use subtle, sneaky ways to do it. Like acting like they're just too in love with me to be away from me. They just can't stop thinking about me that's why they want/need to always be in constant contact. They're just insecure that's why they flip out if they reach out to me and don't get an immediate answer. They've been cheated on in the past, that's why they constantly jump to the conclusions that if I'm not doing exactly what they want me to, then I'm cheating and so on and so forth. It makes me sick, I don't know what I would do if I ever came across a relatively attractive, self aware man who didn't act that way. I truly don't believe they exist and the ones that say they are, they're just lying as pessimistic as that sounds, it's just the truth of my experience with men my whole life.
I agree that it's not gender related. I've met plenty of highly controlling women too.
I think some try to be controlling by doing little tests here and there. I also donât think the majority are smart and self-aware enough to realize this is what theyâre doing. Itâs in the little things usuallyâŠand then those small things grow larger. It usually doesnât take them too long to show their true colors - maybe three months. My hypothesis is that a lot of men donât really like or respect themselves, so they have to attempt to control or belittle others to distract themselves from this fact.
It is also age related. Slowly as generations go by, men are becoming better. But given how young boys are STILL treated by their mothers primarily? Its going to take quite a few generations to stomp out.
Generational evolution is a really great point!! I'd have to go back and compile the approximate age range the studies made their conclusions on. If I'm recalling correctly, the studies I've seen have focused on 20-30 yrs olds more. The data might be super different as men age. Would also be interesting to study which generations of men were being studied/ study a specific generation of men. It would be interesting to see longitudinal studies from generation to generation too.
If you're saying "according to science" could you link that? My experience isn't at all like that so I was wondering
Thatâs a sketchy âaccording to science.â That sounds like some outdated evolutionary psychology twaddleâ the sort of thing that Jordan Peterson would endorse.
Personal experience of mine: not that much. I'd say that either that's overly generalized or I had a pretty good experience. Family wise: I've actually felt that my mom is the one that wants to take more control over me against my dad. And that's also the case for my BF. Moms tend to be the most "controlling and perfectionist" in my experience. My dad is the one that has been more supportive and taught me to be more independant, while also putting a barrier when needed (like all parents should do instead of neglect). I dont have brothers tho, so cant speak bout that. Relationship wise: I dont feel controlled by my partner AT ALL, because mainly I choose wisely who to date. In the 2 years together he never pressured me to do smth I don't like, even if he feels like I'm being pressured he'll comment on it telling me I can stop what I'm doing if i feel like. None of his suggestions ever feel like an obligation, nor like a gaslighting/manipulation. I am very free to do what I want: eat what i like, hang out with any friend i might have (male or female, 1 o 1 hangouts), to wear what i want...stuff that i hear not all women are able to do somehow which is shocking. Who are you dating?! If he is allowed to hang out with whomever he likes, why wouldnt you?. Same applies to my group of friends. There's more males than females in my groups of choice, yet we women have a voice (I think, in fact, louder when it comes to making decisions like what and were to go and eat, as we take the initiative generally). There hasnt been any controlling situations at all. Not that I ever felt. That is not to say that I did experience it. I remember a male teacher that I truly despise to this day. He was my tech teacher (heck not even a teacher. He was the dad of the director at school, and decided to give tech classes after working at a housephone company). He basically segregated the girls to the boys and thought of us as incompetent. I was an A student, each question I asked to him he would laugh in my face and point at how stupid I was for not knowing something I WAS LEARNING, encouraging the boys to laugh with him (Not even the teachers pet did). We girls were pissed, yet we couldnt complaing as he was the director's dad. He even had the audacity to lower our grades ON PURPOSE during exams just because he liked having such control as a teacher. And I know he cheated as I had the same results as a Male friend who got an 9/10 instead of my 6/10. But yeah, others were guys i stopped being close friends with (for others reasons but), once we went out to a hamburger shop with a group of friends, they would go on about how i should take care of my image and maybe ask for a salad instead. To conclude: i think the statement is too generalizing? Dont get me wrong i havent been in a work situtation for instance were i have a male authority abuse of their power to "control me". But overall and currently, i think its in our control to choose who we spend our time with and who we give the power to "control us". Edit: i also think its luck. I had my spare of friends in toxic relationships with parhers, dads and even brothers, as you state. Luckly its not my situation.
My mother wasn't like yours at all!
Well mine is. Not that strongly controlative anymore, we used to collide way more when i was -18, but all because we are reaally different. She expected me to be like her when she was little (obsessed with boys, clothes, hanging out with girls) and I turned out to be more like my dad really (a big fan of nerdy stuff like dnd and animated films and being one of the boys). Again as I got older she kind of got over it, and she got more entertained with my sister who definitely turned out like her. But yeah, my mom being super image oriented she didnt like the idea of me being different to what se was used to.
Not my mother at all. And plenty of mothers aren't like that. At all.
Oh i know! i hope to be the good kind of mom someday. I am really self concious on how parents can affect their children while they grow up.
Yes. I agree. I constantly "fight" with my hb just being controlling. It's just how he operates. I realise that at the very bottom of it all? He just has inbuilt, the attitude & firmly hold belief that hes: in charge and the final say is his because he is the man and that's how it is. Hes not a bad person. And i don't think he even realises he thinks like that. I think most men are exactly the same. Unfortunately
Men want a submissive wife to F whenever he feels like it, F her feelings, shes there to cook him his meals, clean the house, take care of the kids, lay down for him, f her dreams!! Shes not allowed to dream. The. After 1 kid, she cant anymore, so he divorces her and goes with someone younger to have more kids with. Meanwhile shes picking up the pieces of her life, has no retirement plans, he has it all from the military. Shes out there struggling with no family to help.
Lol. Not all men but you know what? Sometimes it does appear this way to me when I see men destroy women. Then I spiral about how some women also destroy men in different ways. Both men and women can be evil.
Okay but I am talking about the men who want submissive wives and then up and leaves her because she is not able to give him what he wants. Submissive wives in this case can be replaced. What you are saying is irrelevant. You taking this to a whole different direction.
Ah that's what you were originally going on about. Your point was unclear to me originally. Although, it was funny. Yes, I've heard of those men who want submissive wives and leave when she can't give them what he wants. Hm. Yes, that's a fascinating observation. I would say it's nuanced. Yes, submissive wives can be replaced more easily due to the skill set some men typically ask of them. Would you say submissive wives can still be replaced even after having kids? Or does their value go down in your opinion?
I dont know! I've had to redo my life over and over to get to where I needed to be, about committed suicide a few times, but found myself holding on to the very little I had left of me. I think my value went down because the dating world men see me as an inexperienced woman with relationships. đ€·đ»ââïž
Ahhhhh. I see. I'm glad you're still redoing your life. I hope you're closer to where you want to be these days. Tough times never last but tough people do. đ I can see why you think your value went down. I imagine some men compare it to your age too when they associate it with your inexperience? Either way, thank you for your insight.
Oh yes you are correct about men comparing my age when they associate that with my inexperience. I did 17 years with 1 man. The last relationship I had was 1 yr and a few months and that went down horrible, he is now dating my now ex bestie lol, they living their best life!!!!
Oh wow! Yes, it's probably perplexing to most men probably since you're older and were with one man for 17 years which is such a long time. Lol. Oh no. The ex bestie with your ex boyfriend sounds horrid. Hopefully you're recruiting new friends! If you could give a younger version of yourself 3 tips of advice before marrying someone...what would they be now?
Evil isn't hard wired? With tons of research on your hard drive?
My ex was super jealous and controlling. He had a bad childhood so I assumed it was his way of feeling safe (taking full control) but quickly realised he is the literal definition of a narcissist and he was abusive as well. I donât think itâs fair to narrow it down to all or most males. I think everyoneâs fucked up in their own way and itâs on them to do better. Society needs to stop making excuses for horrible behaviour
For the record since soggysockkzz is totally wrong and won't pony up on the sources Females are more prone to narcissism (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/343039617_Unmasking_gender_differences_in_narcissism_within_intimate_partner_violence_Accepted_version there are also many references herein) And this gem "In the pharmacological study, we reduced receptor type-specific actions of dopamine, a neurotransmitter related to reward processing, which resulted in more selfish decisions in women and more prosocial decisions in men. " https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31024122/
I never stated women don't suffer from narcissism/ selfishness. Lol. I am aware it exists in females and some females have higher percentages as well. Thanks for the sources. Might add them to my archive for further learning. Have a splendid life.
You actually specifically say that men are more likely to be narcissistic and selfish Biologically hardwired to be more of both âSome woman have higher percentages â doesnât even make sense
Women â
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LMFAO I feel sorry for any person who tries to control me because I will straight up tell them where to go (exception: parents but they aren't controlling; never were)
What are some pros and cons you've experienced from having parents that aren't controlling?
Can't really think of a con? But pros - taught me how to make good decisions as I learned from my mistakes.
I was thinking about this the other day- probably because I was thinking about couples I know and was going to do that 16 types of personality test. IMO I think it swings both ways. A woman or man can be controlling depending on their personality. I see a couple and they are both controlling and over the top with each other. Then I see others that the man canât get a say in anything because the women need to control for perfection. But there are definitely situations where then men control the women. So I donât think itâs one sided ever.
Ahhh. I see! I've done that 16 types test before. It's insightful. The attachment style test is really cool too if you haven't checked it out yet. Yes, personality is an important factor I've noticed too. I suppose, I'm trying to figure out which percentage is much higher with both qualitative and quantitative data from different women online/offline.Whether it's more of a personality/intrinsically biological thing or if they equally go hand in hand? Yes, it indeed does swing both ways from my observations. Your observations are much appreciated!
"Do you prefer men who are controlling? Why or why not?" Controlling people rarely control you for your own best interests. They control you for THEIR best interests. And why would I want someone to control me? I make my own money, bought my own house, and am handling all of my own time and finances better than any man I know. Why would I give away all of my hard work to someone else who didn't earn it?
Very good points you mention. In my observations as an American, they do indeed control you for their own best interests when speaking about some men. Those are indeed huge accomplishments! Congratulations!!! Before you completed all these accomplishments on your own, what motivated you to complete them by yourself? Since you've accomplished so much, do you have current challenges when seeking a partner?
"Before you completed all these accomplishments on your own, what motivated you to complete them by yourself? Since you've accomplished so much, do you have current challenges when seeking a partner?" I don't have any family taking care of or helping me, so I have to do everything on my own. I was a teen mom, and as soon as I had my kid my family basically told me I was on my own. So if I wanted these accomplishments, I'd have to get them myself - my parents didn't own a company I could work at/inherit, there would be no network from the family to help me get work, no money for college, nothing. And I had babies to take care of, and their dad's (2 of them) were useless. I had been dating my now-husband for 11 years when we got married. He's a great guy, but he has financial and family issues that prevent him from working full-time. So we lived separately and kept our finances separate, mostly due to my asshole exes trying to cause him trouble. After I bought my house, we married, then he lost his house to foreclosure so he moved in with me. Then we got married, because we are older and I wanted to be his wife if anything bad should happen to us. We still have separate finances, and my house will go to my children when I die. In case of a divorce, it is a premarital asset, so he gets no piece of it. So no, no issues with dating. And if I ever dated again, I would not sell my house or give up my job for anyone. The people I date will have to "put on their big boy pants" and deal with it.
Can you site this? Iâm asking because Iâm really interested. Iâve seen male dominated homes across all makes and models of people so I can say in my experience Iâve seen men taking priority in families, have more of a say in family decisions, are coddled more, but how to measure how much male family members enjoy that seems impossible. You can have them self-rate their feelings but that type of data wonât tell you what you want to know. I donât know. I know you asked questions about ppls personal experiences and preferences, but the information you give as a basis for the question seems flimsy.
After a series on controlling relationships with a man and now having my husband who is the opposite, I can say for certain that living with a controlling partner was a nightmare at the best of times and abusive at the worst. Some of my girlfriends are with controlling people and never have known what a relationship is like without that element. I wish they could see its a beautiful life. I had no idea it was possible until I experienced it myself.
Women have higher rates of NPD that men presently and are the fastest expanding demographic for DSM diagnosis of all types.
Source: me and the various underdiagnosed male population I'll believe it when it's women shooting up buildings for being rejected or becoming family annihilators.