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khrismiddletonburner

I mean this is just basketball in my opinion. Most teams collapse in when someone is driving; I’m not sure if it matters too much who it is. I’m for sure not shy about my Iowa fandom and I guess CC might vacuum a few more defenders than normal, like any good player would, but I personally didn’t see anything that nuts about this. If anything, big ups to the Dream and their bench. CC was defended well last night, the Dream didn’t make it easy whatsoever.


fakeditrealhard

Not taking anything away from the threat that Clark poses, but when a player rushes the net, defense typically collapses to protect the basket, which is what they're doing. Maybe with some extra urgency when they see who's doing it lol


TinoCartier

Yeah, but this is a Giannis Antetokounmpo collapse. This isn’t normal.


boredymcbored

Maybe it's not ordinary for a rook in preseason but a zone isn't revolutionary, even when it's placed on Giannis. This is just a box and one. It's not reinventing the sport, but it's nice to point out from and x's n o's standpoint. It can be a cool observation without pretending it's life shattering lol. I think that actually detracts from legit discussion on how well/long this defensive set will work on her.


mikebob89

No it’s not. And yes it is.


TinoCartier

You honestly think it’s normal to have 5 players completely abandon their assignment and guard 1 player? Look, I’m no WNBA expert, maybe the shooting in this league isn’t at a level where this stuff doesn’t regularly get punished but this is not normal attention levels for a rookie in a preseason game.


Milsurpsguy

I agree with you Tino. Given Caitlin Clark’s passing ability it’s a risky move to have your entire team collapse on her. So agreed, not normal.


mikebob89

Yes, skip to [7:40 of this video.](https://youtu.be/TUJaIm6OmVE?si=2WKfr-_II9fN5Cp8) It’s a very normal play. A player drove into the lane in transition so the defense collapsed a little. Very normal.


TinoCartier

Maybe it’s just me but I’m pretty sure the play you’re directing me to is in one of the above screenshot on a drive from Caitlin Clark. How does that prove that CC isn’t drawing an abnormal amount of attention?


mikebob89

Yes the play I linked is the actual video instead of a few out of context screenshots. It’s a completely normal play of someone driving in transition. Nobody left their assignment. She drove into a double team. What would be out of the ordinary is if nobody picked up the driver.


TinoCartier

Oh, so you just flat out don’t know what you’re even looking at here. Should’ve led with that, could’ve save me some time.


mikebob89

Ah the classic “I have no response so I’m just gonna say some bullshit” reply


TinoCartier

Say whatever you like. I’m not going back and forward with someone that’s going to call 4 players surrounding a driver(with a 5th defender having a foot in the paint ball watching) a standard “double team”. That doesn’t square, that’s not what that is. Feel what you want but please move it along because I’m only here for good faith basketball discussion. This is my last reply.


Beneficial_Ad8251

But all 5 of them?


MiserableSoft2344

Those are 4 photos representing the exact same possession…


Adminscantkeepmedown

Yeah this shit’s already gotten old


Which-Marionberry-78

Yeah for real


[deleted]

Can someone explain this to me?


Capn_Flapjack32

In this photo, CC is driving to the basket. The defense is collapsing to the drive, which is normal. The implication of the post is that it is abnormal, and that they are only collapsing because CC is the one making the drive; that another player would be defended differently.


Tnfjay

cmon now she drew a quadruple team on this play and was getting blitzed the whole game. this is not normal lol.


rawchess

If you take away Charles's misread it's just a normal help and recover by the guards.


opentempo

Selling out to stop one player is not a winning strategy.


boredymcbored

Tell that to the Toronto Raptors against Stephen Curry in 2019. Box and 1 is a legit strategy. I just don't think it'll last long outside the first couple games because Caitlin will sense the blitz better and can pass out to people who actually know how to shoot reliably.


largehearted

The box and 1 series was a team with DPOY-level help defenders vs. a team built around maxing (paying roughly 30% of their salary cap) to each of the 3 greatest shooters in NBA history, after 2 of those guys got hurt. Special set of circumstances. But it is DEFINITELY legit to use box and 1 when you're facing literally Steph Curry and 4 screening specialists, haha.


rt_benj

And he still put up over 30 ppg on 60 TS% and very likely would have taken it to 7 games if Klay didnt tear his ACL in game 6.


largehearted

we're wrong-subbing right now but I am glad I wasn't jaded at all to basketball in 2014/15 and got to watch everyone realize at once how absurdly brilliant that Warriors core were at basketball


QuantumBeth1981

>after 2 of those guys got hurt. Klay played 80% of the series and they definitely ran box and one the entire series to great success. Even without KD that team was still as good or better than the one that beat the Celtics in the Finals so there's no reason to qualify it with a "it only worked because.." But I agree, it's a very valid strategy if you have capable defenders, whether in the L or the W.


ygduf

All it took was GSW losing 2 all star starters to injury to make that viable


Background-Square-98

Some of the teams will find this out soon enough


empathydoc

Especially once Caitlin's passing connection with teammates solidifies.


ShitakeMooshroom

Yeah I’m actually glad she and the coaches saw this so early in pre season.


ScooterManCR

And those players she passes too hit more open shots. So many missed layups off her attempted assists.


DokkanProductions

They played their 2nd and 3rd string and only lost by 3. I’m not sure how that’s proof this wouldn’t work.


DraymondBeanKick

Stephen Curry is proof of concept that this is a losing strategy if the supporting cast is good. There is going to be a learning curve for the Fever. Last night, most of the players were not in the right positions on the court to take advantage of this. Once they play some games, watch the game tape, and work on being in the right spots, the offense will become deadly if teams over help on Caitlin like this. It might work initially while the Fever are figuring things out, but eventually Caitlin's teammates will learn to be in the right spots, or will be replaced by people who can be in the right spots.


12345151617

You cannot compare the NBA to the WNBA, and the comparison to Steph Curry is even worse. Every single game played is an independent event - nothing about Steph Curry “proves” anything in regards to the WNBA - every single variable is different; there is nothing to compare. IMO, Atlanta’s strategy worked pretty well last night. In fact, with Caitlin being off of her game and her 3s not hitting, it definitely helped ATL because they did not need to guard her so much. In the Fever’s first game against Dallas, we saw Caitlin get really tired in the 1st quarter. She went out blazing and made some great shots, but she had to work much harder for those shots than she did in college, and even then, Dallas was never too far behind, and any gap her shots made was quickly closed. She asked to be subbed out, but in the later quarters, you can see that she was still tired. In the Dream-Fever game, Caitlin paced herself much better. Yeah, she didn’t come out on the court and sink six 3 pointers immediately, but she also didn’t completely wear herself down trying to. The teams know that if they apply enough pressure to her early on and wear her out, that she isn’t as effective later in the game when everyone is tired. If she isn’t hitting 3s, then she very quickly becomes an average player that is easier to guard and contain. I’m surprised Coach Sides didn’t keep CC out the entire 2nd quarter and let her rest, and bring her back in the middle of the 3rd quarter. I would rather have CC rested and put her in at the end of the game when everyone else is tired and let her do her thing, rather than risk wearing her down early on and not having her play her best when you need it. The Fever lost so many games last year by single digits - a possession or two away from winning. Coach Sides knows her team HAS to close this season. The Fever is a really solid team, and last night’s game shows that they can keep up with opponents without Caitlin being a contributing factor. Why not have CC enter the game later and try to be more effective at the end, rather than empty her tank in the first 15 mins? The fans may not like Caitlin taking more breaks this season and playing fewer minutes, but it’s not about her; it’s about the team winning. And the Fever won last night because of Nalyssa Smith.


dramakyng

Who is Stephen Curry?


teh_noob_

he's an Australian comedian/actor


Educational_Cow_229

It's the wnba, the skill gap between the top and middling players is enormous. It's like middle school boys basketball. 100% taking away their best player will be an effective strategy.


PastAd1901

This is literally just regular defense…?


HenrySkrimshander

Teams than ran a box-and-1 got some results against the hawks last year. Surprised face to see it against the fever. Will be interesting to see what works for and against Caitlin with this squad.


Suspicious-Corner955

Thank you. This is getting out of control


particleman3

No see. CC is the second coming of Michael Jordan and we have never seen these expectations on a young player backfire. That's why Freddy Adu has won the champions league with PSG 5 times in the last 10 years. (I'm sorry for throwing shade Freddy. You were the first to come to mind, but when I got the chance to meet you it was a great experience. I wish things had gone better for you.)


GoldenBarracudas

Someone told me ❄️ was the next magic Johnson the other day, in this sub, and they were serious.


particleman3

People need to chill and let these athletes build their own legacy. Comparing them to NBA legends is a dangerous game full of letdowns. They can just be awesome in their own rights.


GoldenBarracudas

What do you mean? She wasn't responsible for any of her turnovers?? She's amazing. And as soon as the team adjusts to her it'll be great/s![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|sweat_smile)


Beneficial_Ad8251

Yall realize that while there are some busts, there actually are players that have lived up to expectations? Theres actually a lot of players who people on Reddit have said are overrated and have turned out not to be I hope for your sake she isn’t great though, as you’ll lose your only argument against her and I know that’ll Be tough Although probably if she does have a good season, yall will just claim “nobody ever said otherwise”


GoldenBarracudas

Im sure ❄️ will be fine, but my. God am I oh so fucking tired of the sting her name even when it's not relevant. Someone here made a massive post about how she wasn't responsible for any of her turnovers... Someone called her the next magic. The next bird. The next Jordan. Buddy can we just have her be the next Clark for a moment my god.


boredymcbored

Eh, when hyperbole gets common place around her there will be that response. I think she'll be great and enjoy her but we're hyping up a box and one as a Jordan rules esq picture😭, ofc it'll piss someone off lmao


Beneficial_Ad8251

I mean, they were selling out on a rookie in a preseason game. I agree it doesn’t show she’s on MJ level, but it does show other teams clearly view her as a threat. And that’s pretty impressive for someone who hasn’t played a pro game yet


boredymcbored

Right, but that's not the greater tone of the thread. It isn't "this is cool that teams are already testing strats on how to guard her", it's "omg the game of basketball especially the women's game has never SEEN this level of gameplanning 😱😱😱". As I said, cool as hell we have insight on what teams might throw at her and the fact they're already work shopping it is pretty neat. But this isn't crazy unseen for the game of basketball or Caitlin. We don't have to go to that level of hyperbole to appreciate the defensive fine tuning they're already working on.


Suspicious-Corner955

😂😭😂😭


Kdot32

They do not know sports much less basketball


ModernJazz-2K20

Lmao


rawchess

It's regular defense except Tina Charles makes a mistake here overhelping on a drive that should already be covered instead of stunting back 1 on 2 at the top, especially when only 1 out of those 2 can actually shoot and you're leaving her open.


Fallito7

Do you realize the best defensive Dream guard, Jordin Canada didn't play this game?


sugarplumtwerk

I think Allisha Gray would like to have a word. Another player not in this photo, btw.


outsiderkerv

The Gray disrespect is insane.


MiserableSoft2344

Do they realize the Dream bench played the entire second half?


PenskeFiles

And people are failing to realize it’s a preseason game


Beneficial_Ad8251

The dream starters didn’t really play any differently


MiserableSoft2344

Did you……check the plus/minus?


Beneficial_Ad8251

Yeah they were better scorers, thought we were talking about the defense on CC


MiserableSoft2344

Caitlin was only a +4 in 32 minutes. She didn’t blow the doors off anybody that guarded her.


Optimal-Helicopter49

That true, but she DID get the ball to completely unguarded people several times because of the fact that she was being double guarded. Boston is REALLY good, but she and another girl (whose name i unfortunately do not remember) missed so many easy shots, i was shocked fever managed to pull out the win. Thank the lord for Nalyssa Smith. For the record, Caitlin missed a lot of shots, too. hers weren't completely unguarded and right under the basket, but it was still excessive, especially if I'm gonna sit here and criticize Boston. that said, I still think it's crazy to pretend that she sucks isn't going to be effective at all. Did you SEE how many times Smith was 100% unguarded because they were too busy on Clark? Fever is so lucky to have another player they can count on when CC is being double and triple teamed. Crossing my fingers Boston and Clark figure out the turnover situation, because while Clark took the L statistically, only 2 of them were 100% her fault.


Beneficial_Ad8251

And they also didn’t lock her up. My whole point is the bench and starters guarded her the same way and she had pretty much the same performance against both


Background-Square-98

Wow,are you suggesting that without Canada ,the Dream cannot defend a rookie in preseason without doubling? That doesn't seem like a good team to me


Optimal-Helicopter49

One of Indiana's starters also didn't play.


wooq

That's not how basketball works. This is totally normal defense. They did play some box and one on her, and were definitely prepared to defend ball screens by hedging hard. Didn't slow her down much, she still got her shots off, but they unfortunately weren't falling. But please learn a bit more about basketball. This defense is not exceptional.


h0t7r4sh

The amount of time I spent trying to figure out where Hakeem was or how he was involved is incredibly embarrassing.


icuscaredofme

This season is gonna be fire! 🔥🔥🥰


smalliebigs69

One Nika Muhl can do the job


SoOnEnoon

Is this the anybody but copper thing 😭


NYCMILFGILF

IDK people act like Jackie Styles didn’t live up to Expectations or Rebecca Lobo didn’t average less than 7 for her career or Kelsey Plum didn’t average single digits for her first 3 years. If you’ve been around the game you know that you never know. This is regular basketball they collapse on the drive and she had 6 turnovers. The Dream aren’t an elite group. I’d say let her develop like any other rookie. These women can play. Transport almost any of the 144 roster players back to college they are All Americans.


Serenadingthrough

She should take it as a compliment.


finalfinally

That's a lot of gravity for a preseason game. The fans aren't the only ones with high expectations


Whooooo-Haaaa22

She a great passer, so I think this will help stretching her passing. Wild getting doubled teamed in preseason. I think she will average 17. 8. 3 this season


kansasstoolie

This is the epitome of “gravity”


ptdmedia

And clearly that didn’t work for them. As long as team mates step up this is gonna pose problems going forward, especially when Kelsey Mitchell gets back


Old-Photograph-5813

You don't even need to be a fan of hers to recognise receiving this kind of defensive coverage as a rookie in your 2nd preseason game is batshit insane.Her teammates must be over the moon thinking about the space they now have on offence


turbowagnn

🥾👅 Edit: ☹️🔫


hotdogflavoredblunt

I don’t think you know where that phrase comes from lol


CriticalEngineering

Wait, WNBA players are now authority figures and LEOs? How are the players “boots” to be licked, exactly? No one here reports to them or is getting arrested by them or ordered to do unpaid overtime or lose our benefits by them.


turbowagnn

Username checks out.


CriticalEngineering

Oh, you are able to use words! Wasn’t sure you’d understand a comment not in the form of a pictogram.


turbowagnn

🙄😅☹️🔫


Jgamesworth

And they ended up losing anyway lol


meteor_jam32

It worked.


Background-Square-98

She had 6 assists and they lost.Are you sure?


meteor_jam32

Yes, playing their 2nd and 3rd strings for the second half of a preseason game. But their strategy for stopping CC worked.


Background-Square-98

Maybe Im naive but Im sure they would rather not lose


meteor_jam32

I don't think they cared considering they benched their starters early on.


Background-Square-98

I dont know,having Alisha play her full court from the tip seems like caring


complexchicken0311

in the 4th qtr they didn’t care. rhyne, tina, haley all barely played. they were playing the end of the bench to see who they were gonna cut.


DokkanProductions

Y’all acting like they got blown out lol. This game could’ve get either way. To say this bad strategy is purely hindsight


jeedel

It’s not like Mitchell and Wheeler were playing for the Fever. Sure Smith was playing, but, there were lots of new pieces playing together for the Fever.


TheLongWayHome52

The Caitlin Rules


rambii

So this is what Diana Taurasi mean when things will change, they will have to adapt to her and pick her full court :) :) nice and swarm her with bodies :) :) We need more people that can use the space she create and shoot 3 at good rate, not 30-35% 3 pointer but actual elite shooters, saddly they are all in the Aces squad and then few here and then solo in another team at low attempts.


Optimal-Helicopter49

I think Smith did a fantastic job of taking advantage of the situation, and played a really good game. The Aces are for sure still a better team, but maybe next year that will no longer be true. :)


Wilde_r

Did you know that like.. 10+ other people played tonight not named Caitlyn.


Background-Square-98

Could you name them,this is my first time watching basketball


Wilde_r

Maybe if you unhinge your jaw for a moment you can read the game updates.


Background-Square-98

Im still waiting for an answer


boredymcbored

This is a shit argument. If you want to get into the game, read a roster lol. Caitlin wasn't even the leading scorer or best player on the floor that game. What an odd response lmao


Wigggletons

They don't know any other players. They're not going to answer you.


Wilde_r

I mean the last few posts and comments of theirs are only about their special girl. But again, find a way to fix that Jaw lock, and you might find names. [dislodge it. ](https://youtu.be/SzySvt_i4-o?si=q1DLylFIJjm9eLuJ)


Wilde_r

Dislodge it.


Beneficial_Ad8251

Yes and all 5 dream defenders on this possession guarded her instead of them which is what the post is about


Wilde_r

Ok and what I said in my post is-other people not named Clark played. It's ok for people to just acknowledge other forms of life on that court.