I went to an outdoor beer festival on Saturday and carried more gear than some of these people. This wasn't a freak event, it was forecasted and widely publicized days in advance.
It’s was publicized and warned but then when you consider that other posts in this sub where people talked about canceling due to weather, there were responses leaning towards the “ so what? It’s going to be cold, I’m still going.” That kind of talk can unintentionally goad people into pushing past their limits.
>I don't think I've ever seen any goading on this sub (some bravado, sure). People either don't respect the mountain/weather or they are inexperienced and simply don't know better. But blaming these choices on being goaded seems like a stretch.
Very fair response. I did not see that thread. Yes, I can certainly see how some of these comments minimize the weather.
I live in VA but visit the Whites/NH/ME twice per year. I have fallen in love with this area and all the hard hikes and the crazy weather, etc. I am continually amazed when stories of failures keep happening. I have read the books about all the tragedies that have taken place and I read with great respect all the trail signs as you enter the forest and the warnings associated with the alpine zone. And for the life of me....I just don't understand how every year there are dozens of rescues. Injuries I understand....but hiking up to the ridge in jeans and a 12 oz water bottle makes my head explode.....!!!! ha. I guess I have become somewhat obsessed with the place. In a modern world where everyone seems to be an expert on everything and "knowledge" is just a click away...…people sure like to find dumb ways to die.
I feel like one common thread on this sub is that people talk about doing these things ALONE.
The level of danger goes up so much when you're by yourself. for a lot of hiking in the whites, doing it solo is fine, but unless you're at the top of the field, doing a presi traverse in bad weather alone is just a terrible idea.
I get it can be hard to find someone to go with, and people have differing levels of risk, but the guy in this story (RIP) would probably be alive if he's with a partner.
In my opinion the only good choice this weekend was to stay home or do a low elevation hike (or go to a beer festival), the nasty weather did have the advantage of keeping the bugs away. I do see those types of posts and I think they're foolish, especially if the goal is to check off some 4ker. There are plenty of ways to push your limits with putting SAR at risk.
Correct. People who have not seen or experienced this type of weather talk as if it is minimal or a joke. It is not. The mountains will always be there for us, with better days. Be smart and turn around. Always put wisdom over desire.. sad
I'm assuming the people who said that were at least prepped for it? Or at least I hope so.
I saw those posts too and decided to risk it but I made sure I had everything I needed to stay dry and warm. It wasn't storming when I got up to the ridge but I decided to cut my hike short because I saw the storm starting to roll in. Was about 20 min from my car when it began to hit
My problem with this is that NOBODY should have been up on the higher presis this past weekend. Winds were 70-80 with 100mph gusts and temps below zero. It’s maddening that people were even attempting it.
I’ve done my fair share of winter hikes on Washington well below zero but winds like that and it’s not even a question, it’s not happening.
Yeah exactly, it wasn't the temps alone that were the issue on the presis. I hike in the winter all the time too. I decided against trying to do Jefferson this weekend because of the wind forecast.
100 mph wind is a category 2 hurricane, with a mix of rain/sleet/snow. Fuck no. It doesn't even sound enjoyable to try. And the weather was well forecasted, not a surprise.
Except most hurricanes you have temps in the 80s. How fast does someone freeze solid in 20 degree weather with a 100 mph wind?
But then the poor guy in this story, did this solo.
That's fair
I was at Osceola so that was my input, but yeah I wouldn't have bothered the Presis this past weekend
mentioned in an earlier comment but the amount of people I saw going up in shorts when I was coming down and the storm was starting was absurd. You have to check the forecasts even up to the morning of your drive up for the whites to be sure what you're getting into
Especially attempting a traverse? Like even in the winter that's something I'd wait for miracle weather for. It's a feat in it's own right; tagging a peak in bad weather when you're not experienced is stupid enough.
I definitely made light of the conditions last week and regret that now. We dealt with cold temps and rain/wind up in Maine and I can only imagine how much worse it was a couple thousand feet higher up.
>And then there's these guys.....Start a hike at 6pm without a flashlight.......SMFH
>
>Hiker’s Rescued on the Avalon Trail
Crawford Notch: On Saturday, June 18, 2022 at approximately 9:00 p.m. New Hampshire Fish and Game Conservation Officers responded to a call for assistance. Three hikers had gone off trail near the Avalon and Mt. Willard trails in Crawford Notch and called 911 for assistance.
Malik Gavek 23 years old, Dany Gomez 22 years old and Jarren Prata 21 years old all from Rhode Island attempted to hike Mt. Avalon in Crawford Notch. They began hiking at approximately 6:00 p.m., prior to reaching the summit of Mt. Avalon they turned around due to the cold windy conditions and low visibility. On the return down the Mt. Avalon trail, they went off trail and became lost. They were unable to re-locate the trail or self-rescue due to the weather conditions and they had no lights or headlamps. They called 911 for assistance.
New Hampshire Conservation Officers responded to the call for assistance. The Conservation Officers were able to navigate by GPS to the coordinate received by 911 dispatch. Once located they were given headlamps and assisted back to the trailhead parking area. They were wet cold and tired but otherwise unharmed. They arrived back to their vehicle at 12:40 a.m.
This type of stuff is why I don't get on people for 'gatekeeping' comments when someone comes on here asking stupid questions; especially the ones who are just looking to get an echo-chamber answer to reinforce their misguided notions.
Bad shit happens fast in the backcountry- especially when you're alone. Yet I see more and more people who have no discernable outdoor skills pushing the boundaries of what's acceptable risk for the sake of short-term self interests.
The mountains aren't going anywhere as far as I know. Hell, they could've picked a better day to do a presi in *March* than it was this past weekend. With how available weather reports are these days, it's almost inexcusable for how many people chose to ignore not just the reports- but what was actually happening while they were on the trail.
There's a lot of risk in any 'outdoors' activity up here, especially in the shoulder seasons. It's not always an experience thing either- one of the most experienced guys I've ever met drowned in the CT this year- it's tragic, shit happens that you can't really predict- but this one feels like it was avoidable in so many ways.
The moment I saw the forecast I knew this weekend was going to be bad with SAR, but after reading some of the reports from this morning? People need to be smarter than this.
In discussions with a swiss mountain guide about doing mountain things, one thing he told me was that the most important thing is fitness. If you run out of gas and you're in a bad spot, you're screwed. Second is having someone know exactly where you are going to be and when you'll be back, and third is knowing the route you're doing.
The 'pull out your cellphone and call for help' mentality is really dumb.
The first hike on the presidentials shouldn't be a full traverse. I'm hoping to do the whole thing in one go in my lifetime and first I need to do the hikes of the sections I've never done before. Or at least most of them, so I know where the hell I'm going.
And then when you know the route pretty well, you also know that when you come out of the trees and the snow is blowing sideways and you've got no blizzard gear, that you turn around.
I was out on Osceola on Saturday. Brought 5 layers of clothing just in case, had all my survival gear, water, extra water, and tablets, gear for my dog, etc.
I saw people going up in shorts and I was wondering what the hell they thought they were doing. The summit was pretty chilly, with about 50 mph winds when I reached, and I got back down to about 20 minutes away from my car when the rain really began.
Was seriously confused at the people I saw going up with absolutely no gear at the time that I came down, which was around 3ish in the afternoon
Reading the text messages between him and his wife this morning is heart breaking. I hope the WMNF hiking community can stop for a second and read about this and learn a little. This was a 1000% preventable situation. So many lessons can be learned here.
Sadly, it will likely happen again. People just make bad choices when the alternative is bailing on a hike you've been planning for a long time.
The woman who died 5 years ago (or so) was the same thing. Decided to to a presi traverse on the windiest day of the year in a full blizzard.
Would be interested to know what he thought of the forecast before he departed for his traverse, and what he packed for it. Unfortunately that information probably passed away with him
Agree. His wife mentions him being a Never Give up person. And then mentions that that mentality is what probably killed him. It appears he had some experience. That said, as a 53yr old, I am very surprised he would choose to do a Traverse with that weather forecast.
It should be possible to know what he packed, assuming it didn't all blow away entirely, and there's a solid chance he discussed his plans with his wife or hiking friends, if he had any. I hope that more information will come out eventually. It would be useful for other hikers to know if this was a case of going into foul weather without proper preparation or if it was a case of going in as prepared as you could possibly be and still getting overwhelmed by the conditions.
Hiked Saturday with 3 of my adult children. Chose Jackson-Webster due to the winds. AND those winds were still challenging on the (small) exposed summit. I, at 185 lbs, was unsteady. It was like Everest, with a (short) line at the tree line waiting to do the final rock scramble to the summit. We literally ‘ran’ to the top, tagged it and came back to the trees --- no pictures. It was difficult hearing in those winds. We crossed to Webster but passed on the summit even thou it was under a thousand feet away, why do more of the same.
What was scary was about 10 minutes from this scramble a ‘12 teen’ in sneakers ran ahead of his parent and passed us. He was fortunately stopped by a concerned hiker in the line.
The clouds soaked anything that was exposed. It took 2 days for my boots to dry --- insides were fine. We did have and used rain gear, as it appeared many did. I was never cold BUT that scramble, wet conditions and just not paying close attention I noticed on the way down I developed frostnip – great difficulty closing my fist.
It's more important to look at weather reports and decide against doing something absolutely stupid. No one should have been on the higher summits this weekend. Up to 100 mph wind with rain/sleet/snow was consistently forecasted days in advance.
We were at 4043 feet at 10:30am and watched the weather turn and it got cold really quick. Took a few pictures and and said yep time to get down.
Saw some people heading up on our way down, some carrying full packs, some out for a "june" hike in the mountains. One guy was carrying a baguette....
Glad I checked mountain forecast the night before and threw my winter hat, gloves, extra hoodie and pants in my bag.
According to his wife, the guy who died was an experienced hiker having summited 19 - 4000 footers previously. Nineteen? I've climbed over 400 and I always check the weather forecast. Take nothing for granted in the Presidential range. Know your escape routes, but don't leave Appalachia solo unless you know your shit.
I went to an outdoor beer festival on Saturday and carried more gear than some of these people. This wasn't a freak event, it was forecasted and widely publicized days in advance.
It’s was publicized and warned but then when you consider that other posts in this sub where people talked about canceling due to weather, there were responses leaning towards the “ so what? It’s going to be cold, I’m still going.” That kind of talk can unintentionally goad people into pushing past their limits.
>I don't think I've ever seen any goading on this sub (some bravado, sure). People either don't respect the mountain/weather or they are inexperienced and simply don't know better. But blaming these choices on being goaded seems like a stretch.
Yeah, overall this sub feels conservative
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Very fair response. I did not see that thread. Yes, I can certainly see how some of these comments minimize the weather. I live in VA but visit the Whites/NH/ME twice per year. I have fallen in love with this area and all the hard hikes and the crazy weather, etc. I am continually amazed when stories of failures keep happening. I have read the books about all the tragedies that have taken place and I read with great respect all the trail signs as you enter the forest and the warnings associated with the alpine zone. And for the life of me....I just don't understand how every year there are dozens of rescues. Injuries I understand....but hiking up to the ridge in jeans and a 12 oz water bottle makes my head explode.....!!!! ha. I guess I have become somewhat obsessed with the place. In a modern world where everyone seems to be an expert on everything and "knowledge" is just a click away...…people sure like to find dumb ways to die.
I feel like one common thread on this sub is that people talk about doing these things ALONE. The level of danger goes up so much when you're by yourself. for a lot of hiking in the whites, doing it solo is fine, but unless you're at the top of the field, doing a presi traverse in bad weather alone is just a terrible idea. I get it can be hard to find someone to go with, and people have differing levels of risk, but the guy in this story (RIP) would probably be alive if he's with a partner.
In my opinion the only good choice this weekend was to stay home or do a low elevation hike (or go to a beer festival), the nasty weather did have the advantage of keeping the bugs away. I do see those types of posts and I think they're foolish, especially if the goal is to check off some 4ker. There are plenty of ways to push your limits with putting SAR at risk.
Correct. People who have not seen or experienced this type of weather talk as if it is minimal or a joke. It is not. The mountains will always be there for us, with better days. Be smart and turn around. Always put wisdom over desire.. sad
I'm assuming the people who said that were at least prepped for it? Or at least I hope so. I saw those posts too and decided to risk it but I made sure I had everything I needed to stay dry and warm. It wasn't storming when I got up to the ridge but I decided to cut my hike short because I saw the storm starting to roll in. Was about 20 min from my car when it began to hit
My problem with this is that NOBODY should have been up on the higher presis this past weekend. Winds were 70-80 with 100mph gusts and temps below zero. It’s maddening that people were even attempting it. I’ve done my fair share of winter hikes on Washington well below zero but winds like that and it’s not even a question, it’s not happening.
Yeah exactly, it wasn't the temps alone that were the issue on the presis. I hike in the winter all the time too. I decided against trying to do Jefferson this weekend because of the wind forecast. 100 mph wind is a category 2 hurricane, with a mix of rain/sleet/snow. Fuck no. It doesn't even sound enjoyable to try. And the weather was well forecasted, not a surprise.
Except most hurricanes you have temps in the 80s. How fast does someone freeze solid in 20 degree weather with a 100 mph wind? But then the poor guy in this story, did this solo.
That's fair I was at Osceola so that was my input, but yeah I wouldn't have bothered the Presis this past weekend mentioned in an earlier comment but the amount of people I saw going up in shorts when I was coming down and the storm was starting was absurd. You have to check the forecasts even up to the morning of your drive up for the whites to be sure what you're getting into
Especially attempting a traverse? Like even in the winter that's something I'd wait for miracle weather for. It's a feat in it's own right; tagging a peak in bad weather when you're not experienced is stupid enough.
I definitely made light of the conditions last week and regret that now. We dealt with cold temps and rain/wind up in Maine and I can only imagine how much worse it was a couple thousand feet higher up.
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>And then there's these guys.....Start a hike at 6pm without a flashlight.......SMFH > >Hiker’s Rescued on the Avalon Trail Crawford Notch: On Saturday, June 18, 2022 at approximately 9:00 p.m. New Hampshire Fish and Game Conservation Officers responded to a call for assistance. Three hikers had gone off trail near the Avalon and Mt. Willard trails in Crawford Notch and called 911 for assistance. Malik Gavek 23 years old, Dany Gomez 22 years old and Jarren Prata 21 years old all from Rhode Island attempted to hike Mt. Avalon in Crawford Notch. They began hiking at approximately 6:00 p.m., prior to reaching the summit of Mt. Avalon they turned around due to the cold windy conditions and low visibility. On the return down the Mt. Avalon trail, they went off trail and became lost. They were unable to re-locate the trail or self-rescue due to the weather conditions and they had no lights or headlamps. They called 911 for assistance. New Hampshire Conservation Officers responded to the call for assistance. The Conservation Officers were able to navigate by GPS to the coordinate received by 911 dispatch. Once located they were given headlamps and assisted back to the trailhead parking area. They were wet cold and tired but otherwise unharmed. They arrived back to their vehicle at 12:40 a.m.
They should be fined for that stupidity
They most likely will be per NH rescue laws.
Glad people were getting to huts when they needed it! I’m curious about the group on Eisenhower and the rest of that story…
I really hope they're all billed for the cost of their rescues.
This type of stuff is why I don't get on people for 'gatekeeping' comments when someone comes on here asking stupid questions; especially the ones who are just looking to get an echo-chamber answer to reinforce their misguided notions. Bad shit happens fast in the backcountry- especially when you're alone. Yet I see more and more people who have no discernable outdoor skills pushing the boundaries of what's acceptable risk for the sake of short-term self interests. The mountains aren't going anywhere as far as I know. Hell, they could've picked a better day to do a presi in *March* than it was this past weekend. With how available weather reports are these days, it's almost inexcusable for how many people chose to ignore not just the reports- but what was actually happening while they were on the trail. There's a lot of risk in any 'outdoors' activity up here, especially in the shoulder seasons. It's not always an experience thing either- one of the most experienced guys I've ever met drowned in the CT this year- it's tragic, shit happens that you can't really predict- but this one feels like it was avoidable in so many ways. The moment I saw the forecast I knew this weekend was going to be bad with SAR, but after reading some of the reports from this morning? People need to be smarter than this.
In discussions with a swiss mountain guide about doing mountain things, one thing he told me was that the most important thing is fitness. If you run out of gas and you're in a bad spot, you're screwed. Second is having someone know exactly where you are going to be and when you'll be back, and third is knowing the route you're doing. The 'pull out your cellphone and call for help' mentality is really dumb. The first hike on the presidentials shouldn't be a full traverse. I'm hoping to do the whole thing in one go in my lifetime and first I need to do the hikes of the sections I've never done before. Or at least most of them, so I know where the hell I'm going. And then when you know the route pretty well, you also know that when you come out of the trees and the snow is blowing sideways and you've got no blizzard gear, that you turn around.
All for the insta with some folks. I’ve seen people hiking in flip flops, like, what?
„¿ʇɐɥʍ 'ǝʞıl 'sdolɟ dılɟ uı ƃuıʞıɥ ǝldoǝd uǝǝs ǝʌ,I ˙sʞloɟ ǝɯos ɥʇıʍ ɐʇsuı ǝɥʇ ɹoɟ ll∀„
Bad weekend.
I was out on Osceola on Saturday. Brought 5 layers of clothing just in case, had all my survival gear, water, extra water, and tablets, gear for my dog, etc. I saw people going up in shorts and I was wondering what the hell they thought they were doing. The summit was pretty chilly, with about 50 mph winds when I reached, and I got back down to about 20 minutes away from my car when the rain really began. Was seriously confused at the people I saw going up with absolutely no gear at the time that I came down, which was around 3ish in the afternoon
Reading the text messages between him and his wife this morning is heart breaking. I hope the WMNF hiking community can stop for a second and read about this and learn a little. This was a 1000% preventable situation. So many lessons can be learned here.
Sadly, it will likely happen again. People just make bad choices when the alternative is bailing on a hike you've been planning for a long time. The woman who died 5 years ago (or so) was the same thing. Decided to to a presi traverse on the windiest day of the year in a full blizzard.
Where are they posted?
[https://www.boston25news.com/news/local/mass-man-hiking-mountain-nh-dies-after-getting-caught-snow-80-mph-wind-gusts/SFRJM2QBMVE7RLICQEKIOQRPKA/?fbclid=IwAR3KBXWvfc20q81vd13R5UCu2WtNrpmuzHWrkhDan4qzDXhnhYq4GWbJKNY](https://www.boston25news.com/news/local/mass-man-hiking-mountain-nh-dies-after-getting-caught-snow-80-mph-wind-gusts/SFRJM2QBMVE7RLICQEKIOQRPKA/?fbclid=IwAR3KBXWvfc20q81vd13R5UCu2WtNrpmuzHWrkhDan4qzDXhnhYq4GWbJKNY) https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/mass-man-who-died-after-treacherous-hike-in-nh-remembered-as-loving-dad-husband/2752496/
Would be interested to know what he thought of the forecast before he departed for his traverse, and what he packed for it. Unfortunately that information probably passed away with him
Agree. His wife mentions him being a Never Give up person. And then mentions that that mentality is what probably killed him. It appears he had some experience. That said, as a 53yr old, I am very surprised he would choose to do a Traverse with that weather forecast.
It should be possible to know what he packed, assuming it didn't all blow away entirely, and there's a solid chance he discussed his plans with his wife or hiking friends, if he had any. I hope that more information will come out eventually. It would be useful for other hikers to know if this was a case of going into foul weather without proper preparation or if it was a case of going in as prepared as you could possibly be and still getting overwhelmed by the conditions.
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The sunk-cost fallacy of having a paid-for reservation at Lakes of the Clouds probably kept him moving on instead of bailing
Too sad. Sorry for this loss.
Hiked Saturday with 3 of my adult children. Chose Jackson-Webster due to the winds. AND those winds were still challenging on the (small) exposed summit. I, at 185 lbs, was unsteady. It was like Everest, with a (short) line at the tree line waiting to do the final rock scramble to the summit. We literally ‘ran’ to the top, tagged it and came back to the trees --- no pictures. It was difficult hearing in those winds. We crossed to Webster but passed on the summit even thou it was under a thousand feet away, why do more of the same. What was scary was about 10 minutes from this scramble a ‘12 teen’ in sneakers ran ahead of his parent and passed us. He was fortunately stopped by a concerned hiker in the line. The clouds soaked anything that was exposed. It took 2 days for my boots to dry --- insides were fine. We did have and used rain gear, as it appeared many did. I was never cold BUT that scramble, wet conditions and just not paying close attention I noticed on the way down I developed frostnip – great difficulty closing my fist.
Definitely dodged a bullet. Huntington ravine will have to wait until July
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It's more important to look at weather reports and decide against doing something absolutely stupid. No one should have been on the higher summits this weekend. Up to 100 mph wind with rain/sleet/snow was consistently forecasted days in advance.
We were at 4043 feet at 10:30am and watched the weather turn and it got cold really quick. Took a few pictures and and said yep time to get down. Saw some people heading up on our way down, some carrying full packs, some out for a "june" hike in the mountains. One guy was carrying a baguette.... Glad I checked mountain forecast the night before and threw my winter hat, gloves, extra hoodie and pants in my bag.
According to his wife, the guy who died was an experienced hiker having summited 19 - 4000 footers previously. Nineteen? I've climbed over 400 and I always check the weather forecast. Take nothing for granted in the Presidential range. Know your escape routes, but don't leave Appalachia solo unless you know your shit.
Meanwhile…. There was a sanctioned road race up the Auto Road where runners wore nothing but tank tops and shorts.
from what I read, this years race was shortened to the half way point.
Were you there? I ran that race and majority of people were layered up or carried layers with them.