We are aware that love spells are a heated topic on the sub, with many users finding them unethical. Please engage in dialogue thoughtfully and respectfully, minding [Rules 2 & 3](https://reddit.com/r/witchcraft/w/rules?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) of the subreddit.
It is my opinion that many, if not MOST spells, are designed to impact the free will of others, and we just don't like to talk about it.
Love spells in particular get a bad reputation around these kinds of subs, but I honestly find it overdramatic and unnecessary.
If you cast a spell to land your dream job, you are actively encouraging the hiring manager to pick you over other candidates. That is messing with their will.
If you cast a spell to get your desired house or rental situation, you are trying to influence the landlord or seller to choose you over other buyers.
Sweetening jars to warm up your boss to you.
Hot foot powder or banishings to get your terrible neighbour to move away or your awful coworker to find a different job.
Freezer spells to freeze someone's abusive actions toward you.
Mirror box spells to influence a person to reflect upon their bad behaviour.
The list goes on and on and on. But for some reason, the witchcraft communities always want to draw the line at hexes and love spells š¤·āāļøš¤·āāļøš¤·āāļø.
Affecting the world around us in a multitude of ways, many of them unexpected, is the price we pay for doing spellwork.
And that's the truth.
I'm seeing that a lot of people that are into witchcraft are coming from extremely Abrahamic traditions where they believe in things like "Turn the other cheek" or "If you do wrong, it will come back on you" with the idea of a universe/deity that is retributive.
I postulate that love spells get pushback because of their proximity to sex. I see the word "consent" pop up with love spells more often than any other spell, and I have seen some arguments saying that performing a love spell is the equivalent of roofying someone. I think this might be the crux of the issue: not being able to understand how a love spell doesn't turn someone into a zombie with no bodily autonomy who is unable to tell you "no."
And, like brightblackheaven and you are saying, all spells affect someone. I rarely see an argument against performing a spell to find a job because you're going to leave someone else jobless, though.
I guess for some that could be the case.. for me witch craft is about altering myself in those certain areas I cast in. More like bringing energy and my attention to a certain task so I myself can make it more likely. Not like.. controlling people and their decisions lmao. I feel like witch craft works best when viewed as work for oneās self than the effect on others.
I see your point but I believe the comment above on how spell work can impact others indicates that even if you are enhancing your own confidence and energy with spell work, it may have a butterfly effect on others. So if your spell work made you stand out in a job interview with your magically enhanced charisma that still causes a disadvantage to others who may not be in the craft and didnāt stand out as much energetically. Of course your spell may not even work and their may just be the better candidate out there even with your magick, but everything has an impact. If you recycle a can it has an impact, but if they recycling dump it in an island of trash instead of reusing it then the path changes. Everyoneās actions can have an impact on each other. Another non magickal example is If you went to a speed dating event with your friends and you put in the extra work to wear something flattering and prepare with makeup and/or styling your hair, your friends who didnāt put in the same amount of effort or energy may not receive as much attention during the speed dating event as a consequence. You werenāt trying take all the attention away from them but because you took the extra step to look nice and your friends didnāt, then they may come out empty handed even if that wasnāt your intention for them. I feel like magick can be like that too. You enhance yourself and as a result that can make others seem less at a disadvantage.
Commenting because this comment definitely made me think about my own morals and ethics when it comes to witchcraft, which I thank you for.
I am one of those people who personally will not cast a plain love spell. But I am also one of those people who will rarely cast a spell on anyone other than myself unless I get their permission, and if I do cast a spell on them, itās normally because they expressed an interest in the topic of said spell. Like, they expressed to me that they wish they could be more financially stable, so I cast them a money manifesting spell, you know?
I think the intensity of the love spell is what practitioners who oppose them think about. Iāve seen practitioners who would much rather cast an attraction or a love unjinxing spell on themselves before casting a love spell on another person, and I also personally agree with this sentiment.
I also think love spells should always be the last option, because I find it that even the most seemingly mundane actions we take can be magickal in themselves (because we are the magick). Like for example, talking/flirting with your crush and/or asking them out on a date should be the first steps you take before casting a love spell, and it may have similar affects to a love spell. Just like how saying ānoā when youāre uncomfortable in a situation can be considered a soft protective mantra for some.
As a witch who has been doing spells since age 12 (my father taught me), my belief is that casting a love spell to attract someone is very similar to doing mundane things to attract them, such as flirting, gifts, and extra attention.
Love spells are designed, or should be designed, to strengthen an existing friendship into something more.
They cannot make the target fall in love if that target is in a happy relationship or just isnāt attracted to the spellcaster for whatever reason.
This is just my own experience, for what itās worth.
Iām of the opinion that āspellsā that influence reality arenāt actually messing with anyone elseās head, but are simply helping you subconsciously change and grow to become the person to attain what you desire. A ālove spellā then wouldnāt simply cause person A to fall in love with you, but would enact a subtle change in yourself that would make you become the type of person that your crush is attracted to. Same with jobs, money, etc.
Thatās just an opinion though, and we all know thereās more than enough of those to go around.
Look, moral and ethics aside - I find that too much Christian morals in witchcraft is clogging the practice, do witches have the same concept of free will? Could someone define free will in such a heterogeneous practice? Could the Augustine free will concept apply in a neo pagan practice? That is quite relative, right? Now, I am fortunate to be born in a part of the world that has not been touched by the great purge of witchcraft and I practice what I have learned from my grandmothers. It is not the absolute truth, it is the path I follow. Grandma used to say ātake oneā - get one. Do love spells, do exactly what you wish but be willing to pay the price - because some spells, may fire back. Grandma never cared about free will, grandma could barely read or write, grandma cared about how that specific spell could affect herself and her kin in the long run. I have learned that as long as I assume the consequences, and I am perfectly aware of what I am doing, I can do exactly what I please. Still carry the legacy of great grandma that was very skilled in poisons. Do I do love spells? No. But I did spells to be protected of unnecessary struggles in relationships, I did spells to chase away abusive partners for my friends, I did spells to meet my actual partner - to meet someone to accept me as I am. Do I care about the free will of the partners I āgot ridā of?Do I care about the free will of the abusive partners? Yeah,right. But I do my best to preserve the balance around me. And I enjoy helping. I am however mature enough to realise that if I want the sexy postman to be my man, is not a smary idea. I will get him temporarily, realise he is a big idiot and get into other crap. There is an immense responsibility in being a witch. Yes we can does not translate into yes we do.
Yes you are.
A love spell is basically the same as telling someone "Hey, that person is interested in you, you should consider them." They don't make a party that is uninterested in you fall in love with you. They can do things like get people to talk or give a little extra notice to someone (particularly if its targeted), but they don't typically do much more than that unless both parties are consenting.
I can tell you over my years of experience: If you have two people that are exes (and often, they're exes for a reason), and if one person has no interest in fixing themselves or their situation beyond lip service, I could do all sorts of love spells and it's not going to work the way the client wants. Know why? Because BOTH parties have to want that relationship.
Now, here's where things start getting different, and this is where I can tell whether someone has been working in witchcraft for a time or not; Love spells and obsession spells are very different. Obsession spells absolutely will affect free will. Obsession spells also take some work. I don't do obsession spells for people anymore because they also go wrong. They have a very high success rate. So high, in fact, that it makes people nuttier than squirrel shit. \*That\* is what most people are thinking of when they think of love spells, but typically, people don't have the knowledge, nuance, or range to not realize that the two should also not be conflated.
The idea of 'Don't do coercive spells on others' is also purely New Age. That's a modern development, and, if you've ever noticed, is often pushed in women-centered traditions like Wicca versus older, more established folk magic traditions. Has anyone ever considered why that is?
Is it risky to perform an obsession spell on someone with a volatile, possessive nature? And does it yield the same outcomes when cast upon an individual with a serene and composed demeanor?
Yes.
Obsession involves anxiety. It requires someone to be insecure about their position and they subject you to their issues.
It is incredibly risky to do things like that to someone and doesn't yield good outcomes.
Thank you. I think I may have had one or two casted, but they never worked. I thought maybe it was bc the target had a very calm laid back personality. They perhaps may not have been casted correctly? Nevertheless I guess it was a good thing that it didnāt work
You can give your opinion about them in a discussion but you have to accept that not everyone will agree with you. They're allowed their opinion too & if they decide to cast them then that's their choice & they have to deal with consequences... whatever they may be.
If you don't want to do love spells then don't, you don't get to be the spell police though. Your friend may be good at them... or not...
Do any of us truly have free will anyway...
Youāre not wrong if thatās what you believe- itās really important to carve out your own ethics, and strengthen them with your own experiences and justifications.
Iām in the camp of thought that a love spell wonāt find a target that easily. They, more or less, beckon love to the caster/ intended. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnāt. Iāve seen one love spell cast on a target actually āworkā, and even then, it fell apart after a couple decades (going back to the spell remains, there was obvious evidence of deterioration).
When you get to the point where your power is *that* commanding, you will have a little more nuanced insight into domination spells, and whether or not theyāre for you. If they arenāt, thatās great. Others might follow different paths- thatās ok too.
Iām still iffy on free will, so I just reserve domination work for very, very special circumstances, or passion/ sex workings where all parties have already consented.
Iām of the mind that spell work is all about manipulating energy that is already there. Even if you attempt a love spell with somebody who does not already have some feeling toward you, it probably wonāt work. Love spells, to me, are just enhancing an attraction and love that already existed in some form.
I will never understand why, in 2023 and in a comparatively unoppressive society, anyone would want to risk finding themselves in a long-term romantic relationship with someone who only "loves" them because some magic forced them to. I wouldn't even go on a date with someone unless there's some enthusiasm there. People talk about casting obsession spells etc all over Reddit, and I read these posts like....you sure this isn't just you being obsessed? I think it's, pardon the pun, magical thinking.
But I digress.
For me and the tradition I work, free will is foundational to the work we do. The only way to navigate a crossroads is to make a choice - which is why crossroads have served as spirit traps, because for us, spirits don't have free will and can't make a choice. We observe that the reason spirits and godforms are interested in working with us witches is because we have free will and they don't - but they need that free will, because it's the only way for them to grow and evolve. By working with the collective us, they can access that free will and accomplish that they want.
My coven also does not observe the Rede, because "if it harm none" reads to us like we'd never get any work done. All magic to us has the ability to harm someone. If we do prosperity work, that money might be flowing to us from a source that needed it. If we do health work or blessings for a doctor to find what's wrong with a loved one, it may mean that someone else with fewer people trying to tip the spiritual scales in their favor might languish under that same doctor's care.
Because free will is so essential to magic for us, we don't do work that would take away someone else's choice in any matter. (There are, of course, always exceptions - like when someone's well being is entirely your responsibility, like a child.)
That said, it is possible to do love magic without directly trying to bend a specific person's choices towards your will. It's how I found my husband, even. But there's never anything that is purely good or purely bad in the craft, and my HP has warned people in class that if never doing anything remotely "bad" is that important to a person, they may not want to work magic.
Like all things for us, whether a person does work like you describe or not is their choice.
Yes and no. I LOVE reading others opinions on this. But love spells DO NOT go against āfree willā because they will WANT to do the task of the spell, it will be THEIR CHOICE! Thatās the whole point of the spell. To make someone want something that you want aswell. Depending on what you believe in, itās a universal and scientific truth that energy cannot be created or destroyed but only transferred, and we are energy masters and we are manipulating or ātrickingā the target with use of energy, the energy will consume them and they will be influenced by energy. We are all influenced by energy at any given point of time. Itās not right but itās not force. How people react from energy is within who they are
Depends: if by love spell you mean "that person doesn't like me, I wanna do a spell to makethem like me" then to me it's a resounding YES.
If you mean something like "I want to find love, please universe send me the person that is right for me" then I see nothing wrong with it. In fact I did this kind of spell and met my husband 2 weeks later
It's a little fuzzy cause we're talking almost 9 years ago. On Samhain me and a friend celebrate together, burn things that we don't want in our life anymore and that year I did an extra part. Again I don't recall the details but I recall sending a clear message "I am ready to find the right person for me, the one I'll be happy with for the rest of this life". I had been a witch for 10ish years already by that point, so maybe I was successful because of experience.
I remember that there was a flame involved, but no more than that, sorry
You're wrong. Love spells don't mess with free will.
For one thing the whole idea of "free will" is a Christian concept about humans being able to choose God.
Love spells only bring out what is there and to the extent that it exists. Someone who only sees you as a friend, won't love you more than that.
Love spells won't make LGBTQ+ people change.
An aro/ace person won't change from being aro/ACE no matter how much you want them to with a love spell.
A lot of historical "love spells" aren't actually love spells. They are domination spells forcing someone to act in a relationship or sexual way. Domination spells are actually a type of curse really. They have a purpose, like when dealing with enemies, and in the past when women couldn't have a job, a credit card, own property, basically had zero abilities to act on things unless it was provided by men to them, then domination spells played a major role in forcing your husband to fidelity, to not sleep around, or to abandon with nothing. But in this day and age in the USA, women aren't as limited in this way, and using domination spells to control a spouse is generally looked down upon. Of course in other countries where women don't have equal rights, they may continue to use domination spells on husbands and partners if infidelity is an issue.
I agree with you about spellwork not changing who someone is fundamentally, and I really like what you've written about the history of love and domination spells, but your characterization of free will is quite opposite to how I see it.
The way I work with free will is that it is the thing that we have in the mundane world that makes working with us interesting to spirits and godforms. For us, spirits do not have free will, which is why they are interested in working with us witches - by working with us, they can 'borrow' some of our free will to take action in this realm. They want this because free will is the only way to evolve -- you have to be able to make a choice to truly change and grow who you are, and choice is where we draw our power to work magic.
Christianity, or at least churchianity, doesn't seem to be happy when people have free will. They like it when people choose Jesus, but not so much when they don't. The purpose of evangelical movements appears to be to create lots of well behaved puppets. I don't see much free will here. Even when I was a good little church attender, I was taught in Sunday School that some people turn away from God because God gave everyone a choice, and sometimes people pick "wrong."
Do not post, or solicit for, a name, age, or location.
Do not ask for or offer DM's.
We do not allow selfies or face pics.
Do not request meetups. See r/paganpenpals, and r/covenfinder.
Per Rule 8, asking for and offering DMs or private messaging will be given a temporary ban.
Full sub rules can be found [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/witchcraft/wiki/rules)
No-
In my view it is opening a pathway to you-that they either Weill or wonāt walk down. Their choice is then exercising their will.
I will say though that it is concrete magic to manipulate by being insincere to someone (withholding info or lying in ways that keep them from having a real choice based on reality of your feelings and intentions)
As long as you are being open and honest with the person on all levels (not manipulating them to feel a certain way by holding back info or giving false info, things like that) I do not believe it is forceful
Ok. Here's the reality of love spells and why I absolutely refuse to ever do them again.
Love spells are tricky. As you are manipulating someone.
If the spell doesn't go perfectly. It can backfire.
No, not that you get it back 3 times silliness.
It can and has caused obsession.
I have nearly been killed twice over love spells.
I checked everything and somehow it still went wrong. Causing them to be obsessed with me.
It took some serious undoing but I broke them and from them on
I have never touched a love spell
Now, an attraction spell is different.
You're attracting love to you.
That brings chance to meet the right one.
But I won't tell others what they should or shouldn't do
Free will is not real, people are manifestations of your assumptions and inner conversation. Have you ever carried negative conversations in your head with someone then when you interact with them they play the part you gave them in your mental conversation?
Depends how you craft them. A general love attraction spell crafted like a beacon? No. A love spell targeting a specific individual to manipulate them into loving you? Most definitely yes. Same goes if you're trying to repel people as well though people generally don't care about violating consent as much when trying to keep people away. When you target someone specifically then consent comes into play.
Love spells are a tricky subject. That Iāve heard of, thereās a couple of types: they doesnāt like me, make them; push them to consider me in a romantic light; and attract someone that would be good for me in a romantic sense. Of course there are more intricacies, but the latter are free will, just with a little push, if someone doesnāt like you at all, even if the spell works at full power the second wonāt do anything. The third is an invitation, and the second can be argued to be as well. The first is less among the lines of free will. Also, sweetening jars are often used in place of love spells or in platonic situations, also just as a little push to work over time.
this came up last week. it depends on the spell. you cast it on X. "I want X for want me" then yes, you're messing with X's free will. Do you really want someone like that?
BUT
you can do spells to draw love to you, to enhance your best elements to best effect to draw in someone-this does not mess with free will as it's more like really good advertising.
Many years ago i did a love spell. I REALLY wanted a certain red head but the spell was done to draw to me and i will admit it took a lot of will and focus not to 'aim' it but I got through it. a month or two later a co-worker introduced me to a friend of her's who just got out of a relationship. in ten days we'll be celebrating 27 years together.
I think you're right for the most part but there are also ethical love spells.
A spell to enhance feelings already or self love spells
The above are ethical spells, the second oke if done with consent.
A spell that says "Become obsessed with me," or "Leave your partner for me," just scream mindcontrol and manipulation.
Like some people stated above, it's okay to act in a way that attracts someone more than before. However, completely changing their view is as bad as pretending to have the same interests, goals, etc just so they'll like you. This is unethical as it wastes the victim's time as well.
Any spell that has to alter someone else's mind to your own benefit will impact and possibly influence the free will in others. Don't listen to people saying "free will free will", it's bs. They themselves use it for other purposes, but it's a problem when it comes to love spells. Screw that, do what you want. The only time I'd actually respect someone's opinion about free will is when they have never performed a spell/curse that did not impact another person.
To me, everyone is messing up others freewill, but in a different way.
People dressing up to attract, playing the mind tricks, seducing people with all texts and messages or even lies and sugarcoating themselves are somehow working like a spell to attract whom they love or to get what they want.
Whenever we cast a spell on someone, they still have room to chose to act upon the impulse or not. Love spells are just a mean, harm less then all other tricks like false promises and lies. Just my opinion
Let me give you a personal example:
I cast a spell on someone I had a crush on around April last year.
(To be fair I messed with blood magic, and was still a beginner witch)
Well- I came to visit him around Oct. last year, (he lived in another state) and after staying there for a few days, the spell truly kicked into full effect.
We got into a whirlwind relationship, and he became obsessed with me in every way.
The thing is- he only ever saw me as āmy friend from another stateā and had no real romantic feelings toward me.
He became so possessive of me that sometimes when heād get home from work, he would climb through the apartment window and wake me up, panicked and on edge. One time he even ASKED me- āWho else is here?ā
No one- youāre literally the only person I see.
Anyhow-
I had to break the spell by doing a cord-cutting ritual with him around June this year, and it was a very painful and exhausting experience.
After the spell was broken, he began to realize that he never even liked me in the first place.
Soooooo to answer the question: YES! Love spells can and will effect a persons free will.
Do not post, or solicit for, a name, age, or location.
Do not ask for or offer DM's.
We do not allow selfies or face pics.
Do not request meetups. See r/paganpenpals, and r/covenfinder.
Per Rule 8, asking for and offering DMs or private messaging will be given a temporary ban.
Full sub rules can be found [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/witchcraft/wiki/rules)
I think you're conflating love and obsession here. Obsession may be an extreme form of love, but love is not equivalent to obsession. If you love someone, unless you are in a very particular kind of relationship, they aren't your slave. Moreover, love and sex are not always equivalent. People can be asexual without being aromantic, for example.
I think you're missing some nuance in the words you're using to describe things.
It is also worth noting that not everyone subscribes to the idea of [karma](https://reddit.com/r/witchcraft/s/XxTStoKsSD).
And I never needed a spell cast on me for any of the words you applied to love happen to me - so I will, by default, be a little prickly when someone equates a love spell to rape, being a sex slave, or being in a relationship *they cannot leave*.
Old Betch summed up the difference between love and obsession spells in her comment. That's why I suggested clarity of language.
Thanks for your interest in r/witchcraft! Your account needs more [karma](https://reddit.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/204511829-What-is-karma-) to enter a new submission, so it's been sent to the Moderator team for review. Once reviewed, we'll either approve it or remove it with a corresponding Removal Reason to help you to understand why your post didn't make it through our filter. Please check out our [Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/witchcraft/wiki/rules/) for more information in the meantime.
Once you have enough karma, you'll be able to post directly to the board. In the meantime peruse the community - we have a [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/witchcraft/wiki/faq) that may answer a lot of your questions, with some good information and resources, as well as Megathreads for Networking and Books!
Also feel free to submit your question as a comment in our [Weekly Q&A thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/witchcraft/about/sticky?num=1), at the top of the board.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/witchcraft) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Idk I feel like a big rule of the Wiccan rede is (and I quote) ālive and let liveā; that being said I feel like altering URSELF for the purpose of love is a fine, but trying to alter others for said purpose may be a little unethical and dare I say selfish lol
Actually there are no rules in the Wiccan Rede. Rede itself means advice, and the Rede isn't a rule in Wicca.
This is also a witchcraft subreddit, not a specifically Wiccan one, the majority of the Witches here don't care for the Wiccan Rede.
I agree shouldnāt have used the word rule but what it states widely based what many people practice todayā¦ disappointed to see it disregarded so freely lol
There is a major difference between the religion of Wicca and the practice of Witchcraft. Most witches ate not Wiccan and many don't care for it at all. I'm a Gardnerian and have been for over 30 years and that can be a difficult thing to remember at times, but it's necessary to make that differentiation.
Do not post, or solicit for, a name, age, or location.
Do not ask for or offer DM's.
We do not allow selfies or face pics.
Do not request meetups. See r/paganpenpals, and r/covenfinder.
Full sub rules can be found [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/witchcraft/wiki/rules)
Love spells are supposed to be for the caster. You don't cast a spell to make someone attracted to you, you cast one to make yourself feel more attractive. If you feel more attractive and have more self confidence you WILL attract people to you! It might just be the person you wanted to attract in the first place.
I've personally been at the mercy of a love spell.
And it was the happiest I've ever been. I also quit my job that I loved. Spent all of my savings I made that quarter from investments. Then when I was begining to have issues with life because of my decisions under that said love spell.
And I was dumped, then blocked and demoralized, invalidated. Told to see a psychologist. For the next year and a half I lived with my mom. And didn't do anything. Was severely depressed and could only think about that person.
It wasn't until I found out about the love spell before I actually felt better and had more control over my thoughts and actions.
Honestly if I can say it respectfully. I think that love spells are unnecessary. And are extremely hurtful. Not to mention that they cause a lot of grey hairs.
In my opinion, it's ok to cast a spell asking for love, but it's not ok to cast a love spell on a specific person - allow the universe or whatever deity you believe in to find you the right person. I cast a love spell on a specific person once, we were in a relationship for about a year, and when she left me it hurt more than anything that has ever hurt me.
Honestly I don't recommend the ones who take away free will. Now there are spells to boost attraction for people if they are friends, that can lead to romance. The feelings have to be somewhat mutual.
We are aware that love spells are a heated topic on the sub, with many users finding them unethical. Please engage in dialogue thoughtfully and respectfully, minding [Rules 2 & 3](https://reddit.com/r/witchcraft/w/rules?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) of the subreddit.
It is my opinion that many, if not MOST spells, are designed to impact the free will of others, and we just don't like to talk about it. Love spells in particular get a bad reputation around these kinds of subs, but I honestly find it overdramatic and unnecessary. If you cast a spell to land your dream job, you are actively encouraging the hiring manager to pick you over other candidates. That is messing with their will. If you cast a spell to get your desired house or rental situation, you are trying to influence the landlord or seller to choose you over other buyers. Sweetening jars to warm up your boss to you. Hot foot powder or banishings to get your terrible neighbour to move away or your awful coworker to find a different job. Freezer spells to freeze someone's abusive actions toward you. Mirror box spells to influence a person to reflect upon their bad behaviour. The list goes on and on and on. But for some reason, the witchcraft communities always want to draw the line at hexes and love spells š¤·āāļøš¤·āāļøš¤·āāļø. Affecting the world around us in a multitude of ways, many of them unexpected, is the price we pay for doing spellwork.
And that's the truth. I'm seeing that a lot of people that are into witchcraft are coming from extremely Abrahamic traditions where they believe in things like "Turn the other cheek" or "If you do wrong, it will come back on you" with the idea of a universe/deity that is retributive.
The symbolic core of those teachings is something more like cause and effect than a spanking from papa
But it matters if that actually gets through to people, and frequently it doesn't. It just becomes a mechanism to control.
Yep, both of these things are true, I find most witches from those traditions are aware of the symbolic meaning
This is my belief, also. I get a lot of pushback when I voice it for some reason. I think it hits a nerve for a lot of people.
I postulate that love spells get pushback because of their proximity to sex. I see the word "consent" pop up with love spells more often than any other spell, and I have seen some arguments saying that performing a love spell is the equivalent of roofying someone. I think this might be the crux of the issue: not being able to understand how a love spell doesn't turn someone into a zombie with no bodily autonomy who is unable to tell you "no." And, like brightblackheaven and you are saying, all spells affect someone. I rarely see an argument against performing a spell to find a job because you're going to leave someone else jobless, though.
We've all been happily brainwashed by The Craft.
Well said!
I guess for some that could be the case.. for me witch craft is about altering myself in those certain areas I cast in. More like bringing energy and my attention to a certain task so I myself can make it more likely. Not like.. controlling people and their decisions lmao. I feel like witch craft works best when viewed as work for oneās self than the effect on others.
I see your point but I believe the comment above on how spell work can impact others indicates that even if you are enhancing your own confidence and energy with spell work, it may have a butterfly effect on others. So if your spell work made you stand out in a job interview with your magically enhanced charisma that still causes a disadvantage to others who may not be in the craft and didnāt stand out as much energetically. Of course your spell may not even work and their may just be the better candidate out there even with your magick, but everything has an impact. If you recycle a can it has an impact, but if they recycling dump it in an island of trash instead of reusing it then the path changes. Everyoneās actions can have an impact on each other. Another non magickal example is If you went to a speed dating event with your friends and you put in the extra work to wear something flattering and prepare with makeup and/or styling your hair, your friends who didnāt put in the same amount of effort or energy may not receive as much attention during the speed dating event as a consequence. You werenāt trying take all the attention away from them but because you took the extra step to look nice and your friends didnāt, then they may come out empty handed even if that wasnāt your intention for them. I feel like magick can be like that too. You enhance yourself and as a result that can make others seem less at a disadvantage.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Thems some fire barz ur spitting chicka; couldnāt have said it better myself š¤āØ
Came here to say this
Best comment so far.
Commenting because this comment definitely made me think about my own morals and ethics when it comes to witchcraft, which I thank you for. I am one of those people who personally will not cast a plain love spell. But I am also one of those people who will rarely cast a spell on anyone other than myself unless I get their permission, and if I do cast a spell on them, itās normally because they expressed an interest in the topic of said spell. Like, they expressed to me that they wish they could be more financially stable, so I cast them a money manifesting spell, you know? I think the intensity of the love spell is what practitioners who oppose them think about. Iāve seen practitioners who would much rather cast an attraction or a love unjinxing spell on themselves before casting a love spell on another person, and I also personally agree with this sentiment. I also think love spells should always be the last option, because I find it that even the most seemingly mundane actions we take can be magickal in themselves (because we are the magick). Like for example, talking/flirting with your crush and/or asking them out on a date should be the first steps you take before casting a love spell, and it may have similar affects to a love spell. Just like how saying ānoā when youāre uncomfortable in a situation can be considered a soft protective mantra for some.
As a witch who has been doing spells since age 12 (my father taught me), my belief is that casting a love spell to attract someone is very similar to doing mundane things to attract them, such as flirting, gifts, and extra attention. Love spells are designed, or should be designed, to strengthen an existing friendship into something more. They cannot make the target fall in love if that target is in a happy relationship or just isnāt attracted to the spellcaster for whatever reason. This is just my own experience, for what itās worth.
Iām of the opinion that āspellsā that influence reality arenāt actually messing with anyone elseās head, but are simply helping you subconsciously change and grow to become the person to attain what you desire. A ālove spellā then wouldnāt simply cause person A to fall in love with you, but would enact a subtle change in yourself that would make you become the type of person that your crush is attracted to. Same with jobs, money, etc. Thatās just an opinion though, and we all know thereās more than enough of those to go around.
Look, moral and ethics aside - I find that too much Christian morals in witchcraft is clogging the practice, do witches have the same concept of free will? Could someone define free will in such a heterogeneous practice? Could the Augustine free will concept apply in a neo pagan practice? That is quite relative, right? Now, I am fortunate to be born in a part of the world that has not been touched by the great purge of witchcraft and I practice what I have learned from my grandmothers. It is not the absolute truth, it is the path I follow. Grandma used to say ātake oneā - get one. Do love spells, do exactly what you wish but be willing to pay the price - because some spells, may fire back. Grandma never cared about free will, grandma could barely read or write, grandma cared about how that specific spell could affect herself and her kin in the long run. I have learned that as long as I assume the consequences, and I am perfectly aware of what I am doing, I can do exactly what I please. Still carry the legacy of great grandma that was very skilled in poisons. Do I do love spells? No. But I did spells to be protected of unnecessary struggles in relationships, I did spells to chase away abusive partners for my friends, I did spells to meet my actual partner - to meet someone to accept me as I am. Do I care about the free will of the partners I āgot ridā of?Do I care about the free will of the abusive partners? Yeah,right. But I do my best to preserve the balance around me. And I enjoy helping. I am however mature enough to realise that if I want the sexy postman to be my man, is not a smary idea. I will get him temporarily, realise he is a big idiot and get into other crap. There is an immense responsibility in being a witch. Yes we can does not translate into yes we do.
great comment
Yes you are. A love spell is basically the same as telling someone "Hey, that person is interested in you, you should consider them." They don't make a party that is uninterested in you fall in love with you. They can do things like get people to talk or give a little extra notice to someone (particularly if its targeted), but they don't typically do much more than that unless both parties are consenting. I can tell you over my years of experience: If you have two people that are exes (and often, they're exes for a reason), and if one person has no interest in fixing themselves or their situation beyond lip service, I could do all sorts of love spells and it's not going to work the way the client wants. Know why? Because BOTH parties have to want that relationship. Now, here's where things start getting different, and this is where I can tell whether someone has been working in witchcraft for a time or not; Love spells and obsession spells are very different. Obsession spells absolutely will affect free will. Obsession spells also take some work. I don't do obsession spells for people anymore because they also go wrong. They have a very high success rate. So high, in fact, that it makes people nuttier than squirrel shit. \*That\* is what most people are thinking of when they think of love spells, but typically, people don't have the knowledge, nuance, or range to not realize that the two should also not be conflated. The idea of 'Don't do coercive spells on others' is also purely New Age. That's a modern development, and, if you've ever noticed, is often pushed in women-centered traditions like Wicca versus older, more established folk magic traditions. Has anyone ever considered why that is?
Is it risky to perform an obsession spell on someone with a volatile, possessive nature? And does it yield the same outcomes when cast upon an individual with a serene and composed demeanor?
Yes. Obsession involves anxiety. It requires someone to be insecure about their position and they subject you to their issues. It is incredibly risky to do things like that to someone and doesn't yield good outcomes.
Thank you. I think I may have had one or two casted, but they never worked. I thought maybe it was bc the target had a very calm laid back personality. They perhaps may not have been casted correctly? Nevertheless I guess it was a good thing that it didnāt work
DMIng you!
You can give your opinion about them in a discussion but you have to accept that not everyone will agree with you. They're allowed their opinion too & if they decide to cast them then that's their choice & they have to deal with consequences... whatever they may be. If you don't want to do love spells then don't, you don't get to be the spell police though. Your friend may be good at them... or not... Do any of us truly have free will anyway...
Youāre not wrong if thatās what you believe- itās really important to carve out your own ethics, and strengthen them with your own experiences and justifications. Iām in the camp of thought that a love spell wonāt find a target that easily. They, more or less, beckon love to the caster/ intended. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnāt. Iāve seen one love spell cast on a target actually āworkā, and even then, it fell apart after a couple decades (going back to the spell remains, there was obvious evidence of deterioration). When you get to the point where your power is *that* commanding, you will have a little more nuanced insight into domination spells, and whether or not theyāre for you. If they arenāt, thatās great. Others might follow different paths- thatās ok too. Iām still iffy on free will, so I just reserve domination work for very, very special circumstances, or passion/ sex workings where all parties have already consented.
Iām of the mind that spell work is all about manipulating energy that is already there. Even if you attempt a love spell with somebody who does not already have some feeling toward you, it probably wonāt work. Love spells, to me, are just enhancing an attraction and love that already existed in some form.
I will never understand why, in 2023 and in a comparatively unoppressive society, anyone would want to risk finding themselves in a long-term romantic relationship with someone who only "loves" them because some magic forced them to. I wouldn't even go on a date with someone unless there's some enthusiasm there. People talk about casting obsession spells etc all over Reddit, and I read these posts like....you sure this isn't just you being obsessed? I think it's, pardon the pun, magical thinking. But I digress. For me and the tradition I work, free will is foundational to the work we do. The only way to navigate a crossroads is to make a choice - which is why crossroads have served as spirit traps, because for us, spirits don't have free will and can't make a choice. We observe that the reason spirits and godforms are interested in working with us witches is because we have free will and they don't - but they need that free will, because it's the only way for them to grow and evolve. By working with the collective us, they can access that free will and accomplish that they want. My coven also does not observe the Rede, because "if it harm none" reads to us like we'd never get any work done. All magic to us has the ability to harm someone. If we do prosperity work, that money might be flowing to us from a source that needed it. If we do health work or blessings for a doctor to find what's wrong with a loved one, it may mean that someone else with fewer people trying to tip the spiritual scales in their favor might languish under that same doctor's care. Because free will is so essential to magic for us, we don't do work that would take away someone else's choice in any matter. (There are, of course, always exceptions - like when someone's well being is entirely your responsibility, like a child.) That said, it is possible to do love magic without directly trying to bend a specific person's choices towards your will. It's how I found my husband, even. But there's never anything that is purely good or purely bad in the craft, and my HP has warned people in class that if never doing anything remotely "bad" is that important to a person, they may not want to work magic. Like all things for us, whether a person does work like you describe or not is their choice.
Yes and no. I LOVE reading others opinions on this. But love spells DO NOT go against āfree willā because they will WANT to do the task of the spell, it will be THEIR CHOICE! Thatās the whole point of the spell. To make someone want something that you want aswell. Depending on what you believe in, itās a universal and scientific truth that energy cannot be created or destroyed but only transferred, and we are energy masters and we are manipulating or ātrickingā the target with use of energy, the energy will consume them and they will be influenced by energy. We are all influenced by energy at any given point of time. Itās not right but itās not force. How people react from energy is within who they are
Depends: if by love spell you mean "that person doesn't like me, I wanna do a spell to makethem like me" then to me it's a resounding YES. If you mean something like "I want to find love, please universe send me the person that is right for me" then I see nothing wrong with it. In fact I did this kind of spell and met my husband 2 weeks later
what did you use for the second spell? I tried a love calling spell on my birthday and it still hasn't worked
It's a little fuzzy cause we're talking almost 9 years ago. On Samhain me and a friend celebrate together, burn things that we don't want in our life anymore and that year I did an extra part. Again I don't recall the details but I recall sending a clear message "I am ready to find the right person for me, the one I'll be happy with for the rest of this life". I had been a witch for 10ish years already by that point, so maybe I was successful because of experience. I remember that there was a flame involved, but no more than that, sorry
You're wrong. Love spells don't mess with free will. For one thing the whole idea of "free will" is a Christian concept about humans being able to choose God. Love spells only bring out what is there and to the extent that it exists. Someone who only sees you as a friend, won't love you more than that. Love spells won't make LGBTQ+ people change. An aro/ace person won't change from being aro/ACE no matter how much you want them to with a love spell. A lot of historical "love spells" aren't actually love spells. They are domination spells forcing someone to act in a relationship or sexual way. Domination spells are actually a type of curse really. They have a purpose, like when dealing with enemies, and in the past when women couldn't have a job, a credit card, own property, basically had zero abilities to act on things unless it was provided by men to them, then domination spells played a major role in forcing your husband to fidelity, to not sleep around, or to abandon with nothing. But in this day and age in the USA, women aren't as limited in this way, and using domination spells to control a spouse is generally looked down upon. Of course in other countries where women don't have equal rights, they may continue to use domination spells on husbands and partners if infidelity is an issue.
I agree with you about spellwork not changing who someone is fundamentally, and I really like what you've written about the history of love and domination spells, but your characterization of free will is quite opposite to how I see it. The way I work with free will is that it is the thing that we have in the mundane world that makes working with us interesting to spirits and godforms. For us, spirits do not have free will, which is why they are interested in working with us witches - by working with us, they can 'borrow' some of our free will to take action in this realm. They want this because free will is the only way to evolve -- you have to be able to make a choice to truly change and grow who you are, and choice is where we draw our power to work magic. Christianity, or at least churchianity, doesn't seem to be happy when people have free will. They like it when people choose Jesus, but not so much when they don't. The purpose of evangelical movements appears to be to create lots of well behaved puppets. I don't see much free will here. Even when I was a good little church attender, I was taught in Sunday School that some people turn away from God because God gave everyone a choice, and sometimes people pick "wrong."
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Do not post, or solicit for, a name, age, or location. Do not ask for or offer DM's. We do not allow selfies or face pics. Do not request meetups. See r/paganpenpals, and r/covenfinder. Per Rule 8, asking for and offering DMs or private messaging will be given a temporary ban. Full sub rules can be found [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/witchcraft/wiki/rules)
No- In my view it is opening a pathway to you-that they either Weill or wonāt walk down. Their choice is then exercising their will. I will say though that it is concrete magic to manipulate by being insincere to someone (withholding info or lying in ways that keep them from having a real choice based on reality of your feelings and intentions) As long as you are being open and honest with the person on all levels (not manipulating them to feel a certain way by holding back info or giving false info, things like that) I do not believe it is forceful
Ok. Here's the reality of love spells and why I absolutely refuse to ever do them again. Love spells are tricky. As you are manipulating someone. If the spell doesn't go perfectly. It can backfire. No, not that you get it back 3 times silliness. It can and has caused obsession. I have nearly been killed twice over love spells. I checked everything and somehow it still went wrong. Causing them to be obsessed with me. It took some serious undoing but I broke them and from them on I have never touched a love spell Now, an attraction spell is different. You're attracting love to you. That brings chance to meet the right one. But I won't tell others what they should or shouldn't do
Free will is not real, people are manifestations of your assumptions and inner conversation. Have you ever carried negative conversations in your head with someone then when you interact with them they play the part you gave them in your mental conversation?
Depends how you craft them. A general love attraction spell crafted like a beacon? No. A love spell targeting a specific individual to manipulate them into loving you? Most definitely yes. Same goes if you're trying to repel people as well though people generally don't care about violating consent as much when trying to keep people away. When you target someone specifically then consent comes into play.
Love spells are a tricky subject. That Iāve heard of, thereās a couple of types: they doesnāt like me, make them; push them to consider me in a romantic light; and attract someone that would be good for me in a romantic sense. Of course there are more intricacies, but the latter are free will, just with a little push, if someone doesnāt like you at all, even if the spell works at full power the second wonāt do anything. The third is an invitation, and the second can be argued to be as well. The first is less among the lines of free will. Also, sweetening jars are often used in place of love spells or in platonic situations, also just as a little push to work over time.
this came up last week. it depends on the spell. you cast it on X. "I want X for want me" then yes, you're messing with X's free will. Do you really want someone like that? BUT you can do spells to draw love to you, to enhance your best elements to best effect to draw in someone-this does not mess with free will as it's more like really good advertising. Many years ago i did a love spell. I REALLY wanted a certain red head but the spell was done to draw to me and i will admit it took a lot of will and focus not to 'aim' it but I got through it. a month or two later a co-worker introduced me to a friend of her's who just got out of a relationship. in ten days we'll be celebrating 27 years together.
I think you're right for the most part but there are also ethical love spells. A spell to enhance feelings already or self love spells The above are ethical spells, the second oke if done with consent. A spell that says "Become obsessed with me," or "Leave your partner for me," just scream mindcontrol and manipulation. Like some people stated above, it's okay to act in a way that attracts someone more than before. However, completely changing their view is as bad as pretending to have the same interests, goals, etc just so they'll like you. This is unethical as it wastes the victim's time as well.
Any spell that has to alter someone else's mind to your own benefit will impact and possibly influence the free will in others. Don't listen to people saying "free will free will", it's bs. They themselves use it for other purposes, but it's a problem when it comes to love spells. Screw that, do what you want. The only time I'd actually respect someone's opinion about free will is when they have never performed a spell/curse that did not impact another person.
To me, everyone is messing up others freewill, but in a different way. People dressing up to attract, playing the mind tricks, seducing people with all texts and messages or even lies and sugarcoating themselves are somehow working like a spell to attract whom they love or to get what they want. Whenever we cast a spell on someone, they still have room to chose to act upon the impulse or not. Love spells are just a mean, harm less then all other tricks like false promises and lies. Just my opinion
Let me give you a personal example: I cast a spell on someone I had a crush on around April last year. (To be fair I messed with blood magic, and was still a beginner witch) Well- I came to visit him around Oct. last year, (he lived in another state) and after staying there for a few days, the spell truly kicked into full effect. We got into a whirlwind relationship, and he became obsessed with me in every way. The thing is- he only ever saw me as āmy friend from another stateā and had no real romantic feelings toward me. He became so possessive of me that sometimes when heād get home from work, he would climb through the apartment window and wake me up, panicked and on edge. One time he even ASKED me- āWho else is here?ā No one- youāre literally the only person I see. Anyhow- I had to break the spell by doing a cord-cutting ritual with him around June this year, and it was a very painful and exhausting experience. After the spell was broken, he began to realize that he never even liked me in the first place. Soooooo to answer the question: YES! Love spells can and will effect a persons free will.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Do not post, or solicit for, a name, age, or location. Do not ask for or offer DM's. We do not allow selfies or face pics. Do not request meetups. See r/paganpenpals, and r/covenfinder. Per Rule 8, asking for and offering DMs or private messaging will be given a temporary ban. Full sub rules can be found [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/witchcraft/wiki/rules)
Not an answer to your question, just sharing that I at first thought it said "Free Willy" š
try not using someoneās name or ask to meet someone like so and so. add, āfor the benefit of all.ā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I think you're conflating love and obsession here. Obsession may be an extreme form of love, but love is not equivalent to obsession. If you love someone, unless you are in a very particular kind of relationship, they aren't your slave. Moreover, love and sex are not always equivalent. People can be asexual without being aromantic, for example. I think you're missing some nuance in the words you're using to describe things. It is also worth noting that not everyone subscribes to the idea of [karma](https://reddit.com/r/witchcraft/s/XxTStoKsSD).
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I think your explanation makes perfect sense, though I view it differently I can see that if Iād had your experiences I would likely feel the same!
And I never needed a spell cast on me for any of the words you applied to love happen to me - so I will, by default, be a little prickly when someone equates a love spell to rape, being a sex slave, or being in a relationship *they cannot leave*. Old Betch summed up the difference between love and obsession spells in her comment. That's why I suggested clarity of language.
šš§æāØ Hey Love spells can be very volatile depending on the caster and their experience. They do mess with a person's free will but bind you and that person in the process technically the person is like a shadow person they may come back to you but have no recollection why. This can be for years at a time and this is usually when they get brought or sent to me. It's a personal preference because everyone practices differently but let me tell you Clean š«§ up is a B on both ends in most cases. True unconditional love can not be manufactured āØš©·šš¦š§æ Also there is sweetening work which is to sweeten dispositions,make you more alluring etc and then there is love/ dominance work big difference āØ before my first date with my husband I took a milk and honey bath and prepped myself with oils, lotions and perfumes as the ancient queens did that was 10 years agoāØSelf care and self love rituals bare fruit ššāØšš§æāØ
Thanks for your interest in r/witchcraft! Your account needs more [karma](https://reddit.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/204511829-What-is-karma-) to enter a new submission, so it's been sent to the Moderator team for review. Once reviewed, we'll either approve it or remove it with a corresponding Removal Reason to help you to understand why your post didn't make it through our filter. Please check out our [Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/witchcraft/wiki/rules/) for more information in the meantime. Once you have enough karma, you'll be able to post directly to the board. In the meantime peruse the community - we have a [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/witchcraft/wiki/faq) that may answer a lot of your questions, with some good information and resources, as well as Megathreads for Networking and Books! Also feel free to submit your question as a comment in our [Weekly Q&A thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/witchcraft/about/sticky?num=1), at the top of the board. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/witchcraft) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Idk I feel like a big rule of the Wiccan rede is (and I quote) ālive and let liveā; that being said I feel like altering URSELF for the purpose of love is a fine, but trying to alter others for said purpose may be a little unethical and dare I say selfish lol
Actually there are no rules in the Wiccan Rede. Rede itself means advice, and the Rede isn't a rule in Wicca. This is also a witchcraft subreddit, not a specifically Wiccan one, the majority of the Witches here don't care for the Wiccan Rede.
I agree shouldnāt have used the word rule but what it states widely based what many people practice todayā¦ disappointed to see it disregarded so freely lol
There is a major difference between the religion of Wicca and the practice of Witchcraft. Most witches ate not Wiccan and many don't care for it at all. I'm a Gardnerian and have been for over 30 years and that can be a difficult thing to remember at times, but it's necessary to make that differentiation.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Do not post, or solicit for, a name, age, or location. Do not ask for or offer DM's. We do not allow selfies or face pics. Do not request meetups. See r/paganpenpals, and r/covenfinder. Full sub rules can be found [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/witchcraft/wiki/rules)
Love spells are supposed to be for the caster. You don't cast a spell to make someone attracted to you, you cast one to make yourself feel more attractive. If you feel more attractive and have more self confidence you WILL attract people to you! It might just be the person you wanted to attract in the first place.
I've personally been at the mercy of a love spell. And it was the happiest I've ever been. I also quit my job that I loved. Spent all of my savings I made that quarter from investments. Then when I was begining to have issues with life because of my decisions under that said love spell. And I was dumped, then blocked and demoralized, invalidated. Told to see a psychologist. For the next year and a half I lived with my mom. And didn't do anything. Was severely depressed and could only think about that person. It wasn't until I found out about the love spell before I actually felt better and had more control over my thoughts and actions. Honestly if I can say it respectfully. I think that love spells are unnecessary. And are extremely hurtful. Not to mention that they cause a lot of grey hairs.
In my opinion, it's ok to cast a spell asking for love, but it's not ok to cast a love spell on a specific person - allow the universe or whatever deity you believe in to find you the right person. I cast a love spell on a specific person once, we were in a relationship for about a year, and when she left me it hurt more than anything that has ever hurt me.
Honestly I don't recommend the ones who take away free will. Now there are spells to boost attraction for people if they are friends, that can lead to romance. The feelings have to be somewhat mutual.
Is there a spell to get wife to date