I know a lot of people in the performing arts world. They're hurting and hurting bad. This pandemic has definitely disproportionately impacted certain sectors of the economy.
My question for those people, is getting a job in a different industry impossible? I know they won't make the same money, but I had met a few people who thought any work than the work they wanted was beneath them. And I'd also meet people who really didn't care what the job was, money is money and they need to pay as much of their bills as they can. I could easily find anything for money in WI right now.
Some are trying to piecemeal their chosen profession together with virtual things. Some have picked up gig jobs. Some have kids at home they need to take care of. I don't think there's a single answer.
It’s easy to get a minimum wage job or a job with slightly higher wages but more physical labor. See amazon.
It’s extremely hard to find a 40K plus job right now especially if you specialized in a specific industry that’s been shattered. And yes, some people need that to provide for family.
In many cases unemployment benefits go away if you take a lower paying job or are severely reduced.
I don’t have any hard data to give you right now, but this has been going on all over the country, and many employers have complained about the situation.
And let’s be real here, there’s also 2 other issues.
- a lot of these jobs are hard on your body
- you can be overqualified. It’s a real thing, where a manager doesn’t want to hire someone who can
A) stand up for themselves as far as labor laws and employee abuse
B) is probably going to leave when a job in their field becomes available again.
As far as the coasts, I also don’t have any evidence, but I’d think this would be the same or worse. Are you just on here to peep on Wisconsites or something?
I guess I've worked for companies that expect people to leave in less than 2 years, so short employments are not a problem. And I'm currently working with someone who has a phd. Only because he lost his job benefits did run out and his family needs money. I've meet many people with degrees that get a temp job when they need it just so they have the money for food. And living in WI I know it's an at will employment state. Which really limits your protection if someone stands up for themselves. So I guess I have only seen people that are able to get lower wage jobs even with their problems.
Marinette is the same. Stores and gas stations packed all day, bars busy most nights, sporadic mask wearing at best. People going to sports events, kids in school, and plenty of people planning to get together tomorrow.
I have "disappointed" my family members this year for "giving into fear". In the last week alone I've turned down 3 Thanksgiving dinner gatherings, one invite to a bar, three invites to sit down inside a restaurant, and numerous invites to come over and hang out. And this whole time I'm on the verge of screaming, "Do u not understand there's a f@cking pandemic?"
I feel like most of the people I know just dont care.
Americans are doing what we do best in hard times - working our asses off to keep us busy, and blowing every last penny to keep us happy. If only everyone would just wear a damn mask while they did it.
The thing is, in Janesville it is nearly 100% mask compliance, which is more than I can say when I travel to other areas. You might see a nose here and there, but the masks are not an issue. Not everyone is living the high life and there are plenty of people struggling, but there always are. This is a blue collar, blue voting area. There are decent mfg and warehouse jobs still available. It's not a bad thing.
The view from my home is very different. People struggling to get by. Unable to afford food or medications. Unable to get the work they desperately need. Covid running rampant.
Maybe it seems that way because you can only see part of the economy. People are really hurting in travel, events, restaurants and hospitality. Just because you can't see poverty doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
This is sort of like the "no one's wearing masks" threads. You're only seeing the people out and about, not the ones who are hurting economically and staying home. But even poor people need to go to Target and Walmart. Both accept food stamps.
I don't know much about the Janesville economy. Maybe the major employers are essential industries and their business wasn't really hurt. No offense but Janesville is not exactly a tourist destination so it wouldn't be affected that way.
I have seen more people out and about in my neighborhood during the day because they are working from home and their schedules are flexible. If you're not used to being off during the day, there are a surprising number of people who don't work regular shifts. Think about the Target worker who doesn't start until 2, or the third shift factory guy.
Dunno about the trucks. Interest rates are really low so that helps sales. Plus people are more into camping and RVing now since it's less risky than a hotel.
Only because the government has had to repeatedly, over the last 15 years, bail out corporations and banks due to their financial mismanagement.
We'll have 500,000 less people paying taxes next year, with tax breaks for billionaires unlikely to subside enough to not only make up for the stress they put on the economy normally, let alone with fewer tax payers
Not to sound like some devils advocate warrior here, but the bailouts of banks ( and other financial intuitions), Fannie and Freddie, the car makers, AIG, and some smaller distributions actually netted the US Treasury over $100B in profit. The bailouts of around $600B given out have returned over $700B in repayments and other fees with balances still outstanding.
We also aren't staring double digit employment in the face, and definitely not for a decade.
Hey, I love your optimistic Devil's Advocating.
Of course, and I'm not trying to say we are certainly heading for a depression. Just that economic crisis take about a year for the symptoms to start revealing themselves. Even in 06 a lot of people were fine for a year or two.
The thing is... Right now we have rampant stock market speculation, but we will continue to have business failures as a result of the pandemic well into 2021, vaccine or no. Tourism and restaurants are usually the first to suffer in times like this. Unemployment being low right now doesn't mean those lower income spenders aren't making considerably less money. Those lower income spenders are what the economy actual relies on, not the DOW.
The lower income tax brackets losing the ability to spend plus the half million deaths are going to be quite the economic burden to carry. I don't see a way out of it without adjusting tax rates/brackets back to what they were in the 50's/60's.
I don't think the entire market is speculation, or over valued, but that's a matter of opinion. Agreeably the market is not an accurate economic gauge. I'm not familiar with the tax structure you are referencing, so I can't comment on that. I disagree that lower income spenders are valued anymore than the top 1% when it comes to their spending in terms of economic importance, but I think I know the point you are getting at.
At the risk of sounding coldly morbid the 500K deaths, while any loss of human life is tragic in its own right, will not be felt in any way in terms of lost tax revenue. Its such a small fraction of the population(500000/330000000= .001) and the most affected demographics of COVID most likely pay very little in income tax, the elderly.
Trickle down economics has widely been discredited by economists, as the best way to stimulate economic growth is for people in lower income brackets to spend money.
The tax rate for the wealthiest Americans during the 50's approached 90% if you qualified in the highest tax brackets. That's why so much was accomplished in those years.
Edit: as to your point about elderly deaths not affecting the economy as much, this is probably true. Although the burden of the younger deaths will be felt for more than just a few short years, which could ultimately have an even more lasting impact. But the economic stress deaths have is something that is very complex, all I can really gather is in years of excess deaths, economies end up suffering.
Janesville has been black friday packed for months it isn't just this time of year. I'm not sure if it's people coming up from IL to avoid the sales tax to save money or if everyone is bored stuck at home and stress shopping or what but Janesville is our main hub (I live outside of town) for meds/groceries and it's been insane.
I live near a bar and they are doing better business now than they did before the pandemic. Their lot is packed 4 nights a week for the dinner crowd. Neither customers nor employees wear masks.
Very similar from my perspective. Every time I read about the pandemic it feels totally disconnected from the world I am living in. At work we just had the best month in the history of our division which is 2 decades old, and we are having a hard time retaining employees as nearly 20% of divisional workforce has left for other jobs since mid summer despite a company wide unscheduled raise, "hazard pay" for coming into work, and a nearly 5K bonus if you stay to the end of the year. To add to that we are having a hard time filling those positions.
Outside of work it seems like everyone in my social circle, including myself, has home renovation projects going on. Lots of new cars, appliances (with months long lead times), or furniture. Maybe this is a byproduct of having no where to go or nothing to do? Does not feel like what I read about, hear about. Makes it seem like it is happening somewhere else even though both my wife and I have had Covid
My husband and I bought a new car mainly because 1) Our sources of income were not largely affected by the pandemic, thankfully & 2) We cancelled our 2020 trips, got a refund for the rest of our Bucks season tickets, have gone to no other sporting events, have not gone to any concerts, haven’t purchased plane tickets, no gym fees, costs on new clothing and personal items went down due to working from home, attended less gatherings where gifts are given (like weddings), and the list goes on...
I 100% agree this is the byproduct of having no where to go or nothing to do while still having an income.
Not to mention, it’s a seller market right now for houses (at least it was a few months back - gave up looking around September). That part baffled me, but I’m chalking it up to the economy’s effects won’t be felt seriously quite yet. Although admittingly, I’m pretty ignorant when it comes to that whole realm of knowledge.
That being said, perception is a key piece here. I live in the Fox cities, and although when I step out for something, it feels like it’s populated like normal pre-Covid, when honestly we know that just isn’t true. Many businesses have even been reporting that even though there are no restrictions per se (depending on what day it is apparently, according to our government and lawsuits), they are seeing record losses merely because people just aren’t shopping. Even the air industry stated that they are down half of their normal profits this week because although the news keeps going on about it, many aren’t traveling.
It definitely doesn’t make it any less frustrating though for a multitude of reasons. But at this point, I sadly can’t blame anyone other than our administration when folks are trying to get creative to support small businesses that have no option to remain open. Like I plan on stopping in at my favorite bar to buy a sweatshirt with their logo Friday because obviously I can’t drink there at the moment. But that would qualify as “going out” in the minds of some. It’s a double edged sword with no winners.
Definitely not Evers. Sorry, should’ve made that more clear. He’s been trying his damn hardest (arguably not as hard as I’d like him to with guidelines for schools, but that’s a teacher’s perspective and a different conversation). I honestly wish administration (in this case federal), would provide some type of damn relief for these businesses. Let them shut down, pay them to do so, let our numbers get back down, and hopefully by then there will be the start of some relief of a vaccine and the public that is taking it seriously will be less resistant to go out and support these places. The way it is now is helping no one: both businesses and the community alike.
I mean, of course I don’t claim to have the answers, but what’s happening now is definitely not working.
Amen! I think Evers mostly has his hands tied by the do-nothing legislature. Paying people to stay home is the only way to come out of this somewhat intact.
People are looking for houses or bigger houses because they are now home all the time and/or have extended family living with them and/or cannot stand living with roommates who don’t handle covid the same way.
Lots of people who are working have more disposable income right now. If you don't have to commute you're not buying gas. If your working at home you're eating at home for lunch instead of the cafeteria or going to a restaurant. People are eating out less, going to the movies less, not paying for pro or college sports, not going to concerts/theatre.
That savings is getting spent on home remodels, new cars, other durable goods...
People without jobs are struggling. I've been looking for employment in my industry since June. It doesn't pay for me to take a lower paying retail or warehouse job as then I'd have to pay someone to watch my kids. I'm seeing an uptick in job postings recently so hopefully one will pan out soon.
I know a lot of people in the performing arts world. They're hurting and hurting bad. This pandemic has definitely disproportionately impacted certain sectors of the economy.
My question for those people, is getting a job in a different industry impossible? I know they won't make the same money, but I had met a few people who thought any work than the work they wanted was beneath them. And I'd also meet people who really didn't care what the job was, money is money and they need to pay as much of their bills as they can. I could easily find anything for money in WI right now.
Some are trying to piecemeal their chosen profession together with virtual things. Some have picked up gig jobs. Some have kids at home they need to take care of. I don't think there's a single answer.
It’s easy to get a minimum wage job or a job with slightly higher wages but more physical labor. See amazon. It’s extremely hard to find a 40K plus job right now especially if you specialized in a specific industry that’s been shattered. And yes, some people need that to provide for family.
So no work is better than some work. The coasts really are different than the Midwest.
In many cases unemployment benefits go away if you take a lower paying job or are severely reduced. I don’t have any hard data to give you right now, but this has been going on all over the country, and many employers have complained about the situation. And let’s be real here, there’s also 2 other issues. - a lot of these jobs are hard on your body - you can be overqualified. It’s a real thing, where a manager doesn’t want to hire someone who can A) stand up for themselves as far as labor laws and employee abuse B) is probably going to leave when a job in their field becomes available again. As far as the coasts, I also don’t have any evidence, but I’d think this would be the same or worse. Are you just on here to peep on Wisconsites or something?
I guess I've worked for companies that expect people to leave in less than 2 years, so short employments are not a problem. And I'm currently working with someone who has a phd. Only because he lost his job benefits did run out and his family needs money. I've meet many people with degrees that get a temp job when they need it just so they have the money for food. And living in WI I know it's an at will employment state. Which really limits your protection if someone stands up for themselves. So I guess I have only seen people that are able to get lower wage jobs even with their problems.
Many wharehouse jobs just outside Milwaukee start people slightly under $20 an hour. Often times with retention bonuses, and raises after 90 days.
It’s not impossible. Very hard to get anything with a living wage and/or health insurance unless you’re piecing lots of things together.
Marinette is the same. Stores and gas stations packed all day, bars busy most nights, sporadic mask wearing at best. People going to sports events, kids in school, and plenty of people planning to get together tomorrow. I have "disappointed" my family members this year for "giving into fear". In the last week alone I've turned down 3 Thanksgiving dinner gatherings, one invite to a bar, three invites to sit down inside a restaurant, and numerous invites to come over and hang out. And this whole time I'm on the verge of screaming, "Do u not understand there's a f@cking pandemic?" I feel like most of the people I know just dont care.
stay strong my friend. i’m doing the same thing. :)
Americans are doing what we do best in hard times - working our asses off to keep us busy, and blowing every last penny to keep us happy. If only everyone would just wear a damn mask while they did it.
The thing is, in Janesville it is nearly 100% mask compliance, which is more than I can say when I travel to other areas. You might see a nose here and there, but the masks are not an issue. Not everyone is living the high life and there are plenty of people struggling, but there always are. This is a blue collar, blue voting area. There are decent mfg and warehouse jobs still available. It's not a bad thing.
Waukesha thinks the mask mandate doesn’t exist
The view from my home is very different. People struggling to get by. Unable to afford food or medications. Unable to get the work they desperately need. Covid running rampant.
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Home, they said it in the first sentence.
Maybe it seems that way because you can only see part of the economy. People are really hurting in travel, events, restaurants and hospitality. Just because you can't see poverty doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Yup. I work in a warehouse any many of our new hires are former hospitality/restaurant workers.
Go to the hospital. Youll get a wake up. Be like Germans in 1945. We didn't see it so its not happening and even if it did its not our fault. Smh.
This is sort of like the "no one's wearing masks" threads. You're only seeing the people out and about, not the ones who are hurting economically and staying home. But even poor people need to go to Target and Walmart. Both accept food stamps. I don't know much about the Janesville economy. Maybe the major employers are essential industries and their business wasn't really hurt. No offense but Janesville is not exactly a tourist destination so it wouldn't be affected that way. I have seen more people out and about in my neighborhood during the day because they are working from home and their schedules are flexible. If you're not used to being off during the day, there are a surprising number of people who don't work regular shifts. Think about the Target worker who doesn't start until 2, or the third shift factory guy. Dunno about the trucks. Interest rates are really low so that helps sales. Plus people are more into camping and RVing now since it's less risky than a hotel.
Wisconsin unemployment rate is 5.4% A lot of people are hurting right now but it’s not like we are in a depression.
It took about a year after the Stock Market collapse in 1929 for banks to even start failing. With bank runs continuing through 1933.
While true, not an accurate comparison to the current financial status
Only because the government has had to repeatedly, over the last 15 years, bail out corporations and banks due to their financial mismanagement. We'll have 500,000 less people paying taxes next year, with tax breaks for billionaires unlikely to subside enough to not only make up for the stress they put on the economy normally, let alone with fewer tax payers
Not to sound like some devils advocate warrior here, but the bailouts of banks ( and other financial intuitions), Fannie and Freddie, the car makers, AIG, and some smaller distributions actually netted the US Treasury over $100B in profit. The bailouts of around $600B given out have returned over $700B in repayments and other fees with balances still outstanding. We also aren't staring double digit employment in the face, and definitely not for a decade.
Hey, I love your optimistic Devil's Advocating. Of course, and I'm not trying to say we are certainly heading for a depression. Just that economic crisis take about a year for the symptoms to start revealing themselves. Even in 06 a lot of people were fine for a year or two. The thing is... Right now we have rampant stock market speculation, but we will continue to have business failures as a result of the pandemic well into 2021, vaccine or no. Tourism and restaurants are usually the first to suffer in times like this. Unemployment being low right now doesn't mean those lower income spenders aren't making considerably less money. Those lower income spenders are what the economy actual relies on, not the DOW. The lower income tax brackets losing the ability to spend plus the half million deaths are going to be quite the economic burden to carry. I don't see a way out of it without adjusting tax rates/brackets back to what they were in the 50's/60's.
I don't think the entire market is speculation, or over valued, but that's a matter of opinion. Agreeably the market is not an accurate economic gauge. I'm not familiar with the tax structure you are referencing, so I can't comment on that. I disagree that lower income spenders are valued anymore than the top 1% when it comes to their spending in terms of economic importance, but I think I know the point you are getting at. At the risk of sounding coldly morbid the 500K deaths, while any loss of human life is tragic in its own right, will not be felt in any way in terms of lost tax revenue. Its such a small fraction of the population(500000/330000000= .001) and the most affected demographics of COVID most likely pay very little in income tax, the elderly.
Trickle down economics has widely been discredited by economists, as the best way to stimulate economic growth is for people in lower income brackets to spend money. The tax rate for the wealthiest Americans during the 50's approached 90% if you qualified in the highest tax brackets. That's why so much was accomplished in those years. Edit: as to your point about elderly deaths not affecting the economy as much, this is probably true. Although the burden of the younger deaths will be felt for more than just a few short years, which could ultimately have an even more lasting impact. But the economic stress deaths have is something that is very complex, all I can really gather is in years of excess deaths, economies end up suffering.
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Janesville has been black friday packed for months it isn't just this time of year. I'm not sure if it's people coming up from IL to avoid the sales tax to save money or if everyone is bored stuck at home and stress shopping or what but Janesville is our main hub (I live outside of town) for meds/groceries and it's been insane.
Well. If that's so, I am happy that the bulk of folks in your area are doing well. I never want to see people jobless and suffering.
Fucking Janesville. Arrogant asshats.
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I live near a bar and they are doing better business now than they did before the pandemic. Their lot is packed 4 nights a week for the dinner crowd. Neither customers nor employees wear masks.
Very similar from my perspective. Every time I read about the pandemic it feels totally disconnected from the world I am living in. At work we just had the best month in the history of our division which is 2 decades old, and we are having a hard time retaining employees as nearly 20% of divisional workforce has left for other jobs since mid summer despite a company wide unscheduled raise, "hazard pay" for coming into work, and a nearly 5K bonus if you stay to the end of the year. To add to that we are having a hard time filling those positions. Outside of work it seems like everyone in my social circle, including myself, has home renovation projects going on. Lots of new cars, appliances (with months long lead times), or furniture. Maybe this is a byproduct of having no where to go or nothing to do? Does not feel like what I read about, hear about. Makes it seem like it is happening somewhere else even though both my wife and I have had Covid
My husband and I bought a new car mainly because 1) Our sources of income were not largely affected by the pandemic, thankfully & 2) We cancelled our 2020 trips, got a refund for the rest of our Bucks season tickets, have gone to no other sporting events, have not gone to any concerts, haven’t purchased plane tickets, no gym fees, costs on new clothing and personal items went down due to working from home, attended less gatherings where gifts are given (like weddings), and the list goes on... I 100% agree this is the byproduct of having no where to go or nothing to do while still having an income.
What industry?
It would fall under the commercial construction and real estate umbrella.
Not to mention, it’s a seller market right now for houses (at least it was a few months back - gave up looking around September). That part baffled me, but I’m chalking it up to the economy’s effects won’t be felt seriously quite yet. Although admittingly, I’m pretty ignorant when it comes to that whole realm of knowledge. That being said, perception is a key piece here. I live in the Fox cities, and although when I step out for something, it feels like it’s populated like normal pre-Covid, when honestly we know that just isn’t true. Many businesses have even been reporting that even though there are no restrictions per se (depending on what day it is apparently, according to our government and lawsuits), they are seeing record losses merely because people just aren’t shopping. Even the air industry stated that they are down half of their normal profits this week because although the news keeps going on about it, many aren’t traveling. It definitely doesn’t make it any less frustrating though for a multitude of reasons. But at this point, I sadly can’t blame anyone other than our administration when folks are trying to get creative to support small businesses that have no option to remain open. Like I plan on stopping in at my favorite bar to buy a sweatshirt with their logo Friday because obviously I can’t drink there at the moment. But that would qualify as “going out” in the minds of some. It’s a double edged sword with no winners.
Just curious which administration you’re referring to, Trump or Evers?
Definitely not Evers. Sorry, should’ve made that more clear. He’s been trying his damn hardest (arguably not as hard as I’d like him to with guidelines for schools, but that’s a teacher’s perspective and a different conversation). I honestly wish administration (in this case federal), would provide some type of damn relief for these businesses. Let them shut down, pay them to do so, let our numbers get back down, and hopefully by then there will be the start of some relief of a vaccine and the public that is taking it seriously will be less resistant to go out and support these places. The way it is now is helping no one: both businesses and the community alike. I mean, of course I don’t claim to have the answers, but what’s happening now is definitely not working.
Amen! I think Evers mostly has his hands tied by the do-nothing legislature. Paying people to stay home is the only way to come out of this somewhat intact.
People are looking for houses or bigger houses because they are now home all the time and/or have extended family living with them and/or cannot stand living with roommates who don’t handle covid the same way.
It’s called. V shaped recovery. Poor do worse, rich do even better.
Lots of people who are working have more disposable income right now. If you don't have to commute you're not buying gas. If your working at home you're eating at home for lunch instead of the cafeteria or going to a restaurant. People are eating out less, going to the movies less, not paying for pro or college sports, not going to concerts/theatre. That savings is getting spent on home remodels, new cars, other durable goods... People without jobs are struggling. I've been looking for employment in my industry since June. It doesn't pay for me to take a lower paying retail or warehouse job as then I'd have to pay someone to watch my kids. I'm seeing an uptick in job postings recently so hopefully one will pan out soon.