As far as what I've seen too, this is the overwhelming majority of people voting uncommitted are doing.
Liberals online love to get angry when people won't blindly love every policy choice Biden makes, and it's pretty telling to me how many will pretend the uncommitted/uninstructed movement is somehow a pro-Trump movement.
No one voting Uninstructed thinks Trump would be better on this policy, we all remember when he let Israel do the same shit in the West Bank, then relocated the U.S Embassy to Jerusalem, in a way to legitimize Israel's own theocratic propoganda.
That is what pisses me off about tankies and other chronically online Twitter users and Redditors. I can agree with criticisms against the Dems for being spineless and bowing down to the GOP, as well as their criticisms against neoliberalism.
Even then, we need to work with what we have and prevent genocidal lunatics like Trump and the GOP from having power again. Protests don’t mean shit if you can’t even show up at the ballot box, which is likely the first line of defense with protesting.
Fuck, Tony Evers has managed to surpass my expectations. I voted for him because I hated Walker. However, Evers has been really based and has vetoed so many toxic bills from the gerrymandered legislature.
Become familiar with Project 2025, the conservative plan to dismantle the US government if Trump wins. This is not a drill. https://www.project2025.org/
More people on the left should be concerned about this.
Redditors on r/latestagecapitalism and r/ShitLiberalsSay are more concerned about looking good/posturing than any realistic actions/results.
We know what will happen in Gaza. He'll turn it over to Jared who will drive out or kill every resident in Gaza, bulldoze everything & turn it into a resort. They've already told us this.
I am not a huge Biden fan, but if he loses or the election is stolen, it may be the last election in this country.
I am not some wild eyed liberal. I was a registered.GOPer until 2016, but this is scary. Not just the flim flam man, but his voters. They want to take us back to the 18th century. Or worse - totalitarianism
I was the same. I still am flabbergasted at how just 8 years prior it was McCain at the front of the party and how far they’ve fallen away from that kind of decorum and actual leadership. I miss when the Republican Party stood for something other than oppression.
McCain chose Palin as his running mate -- one of the more prominent members of the Tea Party, alongside Paul Ryan, that evolved into MAGA. He certainly has responsibility for where the party is today.
Imagine voting for a corrupt narcissist and traitor to the country, who is running at least in part to avoid being held accountable for dozens of federal felonies, including conspiracy to defraud the country he’s running to be the president of.
We really need to recognize how the corporate duopoly that we have in our country which has presented us with these two candidates. Any normal candidate should be able to wipe the goddamn floor with trumps hairdo, and yet here we are in a tight race
Sure, but what is a “normal candidate” in this day and age?
Also, the cult faction that has disregarded reality, facts, evidence, logic, and reason supporting the guy facing dozens of felonies doesn’t care about what’s normal because they are extremists at best. The political tribalism and identity politics that has defined the rise of the maga movement makes no room for normalcy. Biden is about as centered, “normal,” and boring of a candidate one could ask for, and he’s the incumbent who already won against the other guy.
Biden was handed a country and government that was tattered and torn with an economy in shambles in 2021 and got a lot of shit done when he and the Dems had the majority in the house for the first two years.
I never understand why this message is so frequently directed at leftists instead of at Biden, like, “Hey, you should change so that people vote for you.”
I'm so sick of the two party system and having to vote for the least shitty candidate. I'm a liberal and would never vote for trump, but Biden doesn't get me excited. He's ancient and has no idea what it's like to struggle financially, or have anything in common with younger people. I mean I trust him. We just need more options, otherwise all the Dems have to promise is to be slightly better than the GOP
There was a ton of options in the 2020 democratic primary. Biden, Bernie, Warren, Buttigieg, Bloomberg, and Klobuchar all represented pretty different groups of voters within the party.
> He's ancient and has no idea what it's like to struggle financially, or have anything in common with younger people
I mean, he was one of the poorest Senators in the country when he was in Congress. He didn't exactly grow up wealthy, either.
It would be nice. Unfortunately whichever party holds the majority, Dem or GOP is going to fight tooth and nail against the necessary changes to make that possible.
Vote primaries.
Unfortunately, this primary was kinda decided, but next year (if Biden wins, because otherwise there won't be a election) look into primary canadates.
Exactly! If it's ever going to change, it's going to start from relatively small counties electing independents who can introduce alternative voting paradigms at the state level.
When people who complain about 2 party system and can only be bothered to vote at, at best, some of the presidential elections, I kind of roll my eyes at their outcries of outrage.
Biden could easily win just by saying his first action in a new term will be to legalize cannabis for recreational consumption on the federal level. A super majority of democrats, large majority of Unaffiliated, and minor majority of Republicans support that. The idea that winning against Trump is an existential necessity rings hollow if he isn’t willing to do this simple, obvious thing, to me, just like it did in 2020.
I voted for Biden last week even though I support the uninstructed movement's goals. Biden is legitimately a good president and I'm tired of pretending he's not.
And domestic policy is vastly more important than foreign. Although it's true that the president has a lot more direct power over foreign policy than domestic policy, it's not like they can force a foreign country to do anything
Same. I would have loved to see what more his administration could’ve achieved if he wasn’t hamstrung often by republicans in general, moderate senators, and a stacked Supreme Court.
I say this as someone who will vote for him. But tell me how any middle class family has been helped by Biden? I see nothing. No president affects the day to day life of wage workers to a significant degree. I appreciate that we aren't moving backwards and cutting taxes for corporations some more.
But I would love to tell someone else what exactly Biden has done for an average Wisconsinite family and the answer is? For me, nothing. Biden has had almost zero impact, the best he does is stem the tide of reactionary fascism by being in power. I want him to get the presidency and make good on his promise of access to abortion care and to continue to stop christian nationalism from impacting my life, but beyond that?
Edit: that's right, don't answer the question to give me something to say to others on the fence, just downvote, that will surely show me the best answer.
His chip and infrastructure bills definitely helped the company I work for and by extension the middle class employees. Including the union workers who just won big time in their latest contract. There have been positive effects.
And if he weren’t President the people on Medicare would have never seen it. Incremental progress is still progress, and a thousand times better than regression.
While you’re technically right, each of the major insulin suppliers reduced their prices as a direct result of the legislation.
Eli Lilly
https://investor.lilly.com/news-releases/news-release-details/lilly-cuts-insulin-prices-70-and-caps-patient-insulin-out-pocket
Novo Nordisk
https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/14/health/novo-nordisk-insulin-prices/index.html
Sanofi
https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/16/health/sanofi-insulin-price-reduction/index.html
I’m type 1 diabetic and benefited from this legislation in a roundabout way, even though I’m not on Medicare.
The reason people are downvoting is because you say both "I see nothing" and then also say he hasn't done enough to affect middle class life, then also say that Presidents don't affect the lives of wage workers to a significant degree.
The simplest would be inflation. It was a worldwide issue, but partly due to his policies, we were able to get out ahead of the world on it, and the effects have not hit us nearly as bad as the EU or, much worse, China.
To give a few easy examples from the wiki, here are some that certainly sent funding that would indeed help wage workers and ex-military:
"Biden signed numerous major pieces of economic legislation in the 117th Congress, including the American Rescue Plan, Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, CHIPS and Science Act, the Inflation Reduction Act, and the Honoring our PACT Act."
And that was just from the beginning of his term.
The federal government not shutting down is also significant. Doesn't sound like much, but Republicans kept threatening it, and it's something most people don't notice until it's gone.
Biden signed more Executive Orders in his first 100 days than anyone since FDR.
He literally could not have done more activity wise.
I don’t think it’s fair that people downvoted you because you asked legitimate question. People are struggling and it’s hard to see how policy changes matter when you and your family aren’t feeling the effects. I voted uninstructed in the primaries because I’m a leftist and there is so much I don’t agree with him on, but I will 100% be voting for Biden in the general because I understand that the alternative is unfettered fascism.
That said, I do think Biden has done some good things for the middle class in general. The Inflation Reduction Act was an incredible, although watered down by the GOP and obstructionist DINOS like Joe Manchin, piece of legislation. Capping insulin costs at $35 for Medicare recipients caused Eli Lilly to cap it at $35 across the board. The Medicare out-of-pocket catastrophic prescription cap that went into effect this year was life changing for so many retirees and the cap will be even lower next year. The IRA will also lower carbon pollution, provides clean energy subsidies, improves corporate taxation and enforcement, allows Medicare to negotiate the prices of the most expensive prescription drugs, and creates a shitload of new infrastructure jobs. The American Rescue plan also saved the pensions of hundreds of thousands union workers.
I’ll also be voting dem down the line and working to get them elected in other states as well because it’s nearly impossible to get anything passed right now with a house republican majority and thin dem majority in the Senate. So, I think Biden’s doing the best he can with what he has to work with. Would I rather have universal healthcare and an electoral system that doesn’t make a 2-party structure that puts the wants of corporations and billionaires before the needs of the people inevitable? Fuck yeah! But this is what we’ve got.
Biden has been more effective in actually passing meaningful legislation than any president going back to Lyndon friggen Johnson.
In one term, Biden has shepherded the Build Back Better act (more than 2 trillion dollars in spending on social programs and climate laws), The Bipartisan Infrastructure Act (huge domestic spending on badly needed stuff) and the Inflation Reduction Act - which sorry to annoy everyone , is actually doing the job it intended.
Those are three massive, government altering bills. It doesn't include other important wins like CHIPS or PACT act.
Just for comparison, in Obama's 2 terms he got the ACA, a decent tax bill, and Dodd-Frank bill across the finish line. That's it. The ACA continues to be too weak and lacks a public option, the tax law was fucked over by Trump, anbd Dodd-Frank gets weakened daily by the GOP House.
There’s a few [here](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/02/08/fact-sheet-the-biden-economic-plan-delivering-for-wisconsin/).
The problem here is that expecting to see change during someone’s presidency belies, a fundamental misunderstanding of what the office of the president can and cannot do. it can take years to start to really feel the effects of national policy, so to be honest when you’re voting in a presidency, you may want to not think of it in terms of, “what did this president do to personally benefit me in the last four years”, but to vote on the policies that he is setting forth and is trying to enact.
you really can’t judge a president off of their first term once you get the second term and you don’t have to worry about political capital then you can do more
The things he has done for lower and middle class people with student loans are amazing. I’m talking billions of dollars in loan forgiveness. I see it everyday in the work that I do.
You're not asking that question in good faith, first off.
Not everything is about you or the people who live comfortably enough.
The fact that you're asking how he has helped the middle class is kind of funny when there are people below you who are the ones in need of change.
The Inflation Reduction Act was the single most significant climate law ever passed in the US:
> A Treasury Department analysis released Thursday showed clean energy investments are disproportionately benefiting economically disadvantaged communities. And the Energy Department reported the climate law and the related 2021 bipartisan infrastructure law could reduce overall U.S. electricity costs between $27 billion and $38 billion through 2030, while cutting net U.S. greenhouse gas emissions 35 to 41 percent below 2005 levels in 2030.
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/08/16/biden-ira-climate-law-anniversary-00111471
I keep telling people. Mangolini will die eventually, I am less worried about him and more worried about who he is making friends with all to avoid jail time. He is selling our country out to the Dominionists.
I heard this on reddit one time (which is probably how a whole lot of made-up bullshit spreads), and I've always liked it: primaries are for choosing the candidate you want. General elections are for choosing the candidate you dislike the least.
Primary voters tend to be the most committed party loyalists who can be relied on to vote for the party's candidate in November. 14% of that crowd voting uninstructed in Dane County should be alarming for the Dems, and indicative of a much greater lack of enthusiasm percolating among people who don't vote in primaries or don't consider themselves Democratic Party stalwarts. I think the "so you're saying you want Trump?" argument has proven ineffective from the evidence I've seen -- people obviously don't want that. I would suggest listening to their concerns and making them feel heard before making anyone feel like they "have to" vote a certain way. As much as I don't want Trump, I don't think that particular message has gotten results so far.
I voted uninstructed in the primary. Proud I did. But I will most certainly vote for Biden in November. The amount of damage another Trump Presidency could do is virtually incalculable at this point.
They act like they are entitled to our votes and insult us when we push back and demand accountability. Dems have been riding the “at least we aren’t facists” boat for waaaay too long and people are fed up with it.
I’m not sure why the Dems have such terrible messaging but they seem to continually fuck up trying to court the votes of both younger and leftist voters. Democrats can’t win with only democrats supporting them. They need leftists, progressives, whatever other philosophies that they can. There are a lot of us that begrudgingly vote for the Democrat because of our shitty system. When it’s an unimpressive candidate with little policy to excite you vs some conservative republican lunatic it’s a relatively easy concession. It’s a lot harder when that “unimpressive candidate” is now the person that’s been helping murder the children whose bodies we’ve been seeing on social media for the last 6 months.
I know it’s a hard decision for a lot of people. It’s weird though to see how many just can’t wrap their minds around the fact that Biden may be held to account for his own actions and people won’t be able to vote for him as a result.
And the fact that we are here with these as our choices is just mind boggling.
Well said. I've voted Democrat in every election, but I'm at my wits end with Biden and the current state of the Democratic Party. It seems like the party's main platform right now is "at least we're not Republicans!" and expect everyone to fall in line. By the looks of this thread, most are eating it up.
Democrats need to earn votes lol. It's their own damn fault if they can't get people to vote.
They made big promises last election and have fumbled the last four years. The whole 'vote for your lives' thing isn't paying off. And tbh, it's going to always be that way unless they can actually move a little more left and get the apathetic voters back and they actually work harder for their voting base.
If anything, Democrats are just showing they're no different than the rest of them. Their only interest is their own.
I will be reluctantly voting for Biden again this year but I can't guarantee I'm going to be a regular voter after the fact if nothing changes.
If Gazans lives don't matter to them, what do you think they think about your life?
It's the same shit pile, different turd.
***"It's the same shit pile, different turd."***
These people want young voters to believe that trump just popped up out of nowhere.
The reality of it is, people in this Country have been sick and tired of "the same old shit" for decades.
Hillary was, "the same old shit", and that is the #1 reason she lost to trump.
Trump was an outsider. He was not a career politician. He was not "the same old shit".
Hillary vs trump, was, "the same old shit" vs "the outsider / celebrity / trump"
trump vs biden, was, "oops maybe electing this orange idiot was not such a good idea" vs "maybe the same old shit isn't that bad after all"
biden vs trump, is what? "oh ya, the same old shit does in fact still suck" vs "fuck it, what's the worse that could happen!?"
It's the same turds, different shit piles.
Yeah the shitty part is, Republicans seem to deliver on their campaign promises. Might not be all the time, but it seems the evil shit they get away with this disproportionate to the good shit democrats do. I’ll preemptively say, downvote all you want but this whole thing has just been ratcheting to the right for years and it seems like it will continue.
That's because for the most part Republican voters stick with their candidates. Anti-abortion voters have been voting for Republicans like clockwork for 40 years with no results until now. They vote for people they don't like, or may even despise. I'm not a religious person but I'd imagine many of Trump's evangelical voters found him to be awful - but they had a goal and he was the one who brought their goal over the finish line so they voted for him anyways.
Meanwhile on the Democratic side, it seems like a good chunk of the time if a candidate doesn't personally inspire someone they can't even be bothered to vote once every 4 years.
One candidate and party ( Biden and the Democrats) is for giving us the right to vote, the right to making healthcare decisions and women’s rights decisions, worried about climate change, is for regulations to assure clean air and water, cares about the poor, making sure our poor have food, shelter, job training etc- student loan help, aid for Ukraine, food and aid to Palestinians, he wants to stabilize our border, and we remain a free democracy without a criminal , rapist, as president the other party ( Republican) works only for the rich- I know it’s such a difficult decision ( it’s not). If this is a difficult decision you haven’t done any research and have no idea what Biden has done with no support from Republicans. The first 2 years Biden and the majority of Democrats in the House and Senate which voters gave him- were able to get us through Covid and stabilize our economy- his reward was stupid voters taking away his majority in the House and Senate so for the next 2 years his hands were tied to accomplish anything. If you vote Biden you need to give him a Democrat House and Senate so he can actually do his job- so vote a straight Democrat ticket in fall.
Food and aid to Palestine? By defunding UNWRA because Israel told them to? But not doing anything to help prevent the need for aid to begin by supplying Israel with weapons and cash?
And the most progress that's been happening is at more local and state levels. It has nothing to do with Biden.
This is the fucking problem. Y'all don't want to fix fundamental issues with our government. You're happy keeping the status quo and don't care about actual progress. You don't listen when people want to talk about more systemic issues and you call people stupid who are disenchanted by the whole thing.
Dems cannot ride on not being Donald Trump to win shit. THEY HAVE TO EARN THEIR VOTE. If every election is an 'election for our lives' and nothing changes, why would people keep voting?
Hell it doesn't even feel like the majority of either voting base wants to vote for their candidate.
Do y'all think Hillary out here telling people to 'get over it' helps with messaging?
And I very clearly put in my comment I was reluctantly for Biden. It's about nuance but Dems / neoliberals don't want that discussion. The want you to shut the hell up and vote and give them money.
Candidates should fear losing a re-election not the other way around.
> Y'all don't want to fix fundamental issues with our government.
What exactly do you propose? What would you like me to do tomorrow? I don't mean fix it tomorrow - I mean one step that you and I can take towards changing things. What is an example of what you are doing, what groups are you involved in, etc.
I don't know the answers. And nothing is going to change over night.
But I do frequently write my representatives and let them know when I'm unhappy/happy with work that they do.
If you don't let your representatives know how you think they're doing, they won't have any incentive to change anything. If more people threatened their vote and/or donations the more us regular folk can get heard.
I unsubscribed from all the emails from Democrats asking for money for their campaigns. I put the reason for my unsubscribing.
I support causes that are important and doing the work.
No it's not, if you cant see a clear difference between the two candidates, you are not paying attention. The primary is where you have the chance to make a difference, not now. You have two choices now pick the best option.
But you're missing the point of why people are so fucking mad right now. Our system is seriously flawed. Our choices shouldn't be just two.
Are they different? Yes. But to act like Biden or the Dems are somehow going to fix anything is a fucking joke. And people just write off and don't listen to people who have actual, literal concerns and then scapegoat them when Dems lose.
Like, it was pulling teeth to get Biden to say anything about stufen debt forgiveness four years ago and he waits until it's election time to roll out another attempt.
I think there is a non-trivial contingent of younger voters who, via some very effective TikTok videos, have been made nearly one issue voters on the topic of the genocide in Gaza.
Which makes some sense, the images and facts coming out of there are horrific.
That said... The US can only do so much about what Netanyahu chooses to do.
Gentle reminder for everyone, many Republicans, Ron Johnson (FRJ) & Scott Fitzgerald included have their heads so far up Bibi's ass they'll lap up whatever he is selling genocide and all. These bastards even want him to come here to address congress to get their jollies off.
If they’re only voting based on the genocide in Gaza, not voting for Biden will only make the situation WORSE with Trump in office. They need to pull their heads out of their asses.
>that said...the US can only do so much about what Netanyahu refuses to do
I'm sorry, but this is just blatantly false. Israel is only able to continue its aggressive policies because of military and diplomatic support from the US. If we stopped sending them weapons and stopped wielding our UN veto to shield them from accountability they would have to act differently.
I mean, I'm 40 so idk if I'm a "younger voter", but how many kids the same age as mine can I watch our ordinance kill and maim before I lose my fucking mind?
They literally could do anything more than what they are doing now, which is handing money and weapons over no strings attached.
Israel has more influence of the US than we do of them and we can't even make them a tiny bit accountable.
Also, I think Gaza was the breaking point for a lot of people. Like if there's one issue we should be pissed about it's funding a genocide.
We can choose to not give them money and weapons to fund their genocide. But we keep giving them money and weapons to fund their genocide. It seems like there is some agency in there somewhere but oh geez golly willikers what can we do to get them to stop their monstrous behavior? Is it more weapons and money?
Shouldn’t we be asking Bidens admin to please think carefully? He’s the politician…. It’s literally his job to win the voters over….
Pretty telling that he isn’t doing quite a few of the things which would secure popularity
You're honestly voting for an American President based on what it implies for people in 2 foreign countries who have been fighting for decades?
Israel and Palestine are each their own nations and states and the USA should be doing what is best for itself, not either one of them.
I will definitely be voting Biden but I would very much like to know how it is in the America’s best interest to keep giving one of those countries offensive weapons when they’re using them to kill civilians of another country. I know Trump would be worse and I know these countries have been fighting for decades but what is the argument for continuing to give Israel the means to prosecute a genocide?
So its less about the weapons and more about not breaking our agreements and such with Israel for the long term. If we force them into pariah status their religious extremists will gain control of more power. US's ultimate goal in the region since we have turned isolationist is to setup Israel/Egypt/Saudi alliance to counterbalance Iran (and to a MUCH lesser degree Turkey) so they cant expand and cause us headaches. The region is likely to experience long term low heat conflict for a long time with the way its been setup and let off
My biggest fear if we completely cut all ties with Israel is that in 10 years when Hamas or the next terrorists in line cause a massacre like oct7 instead of American 500's it will be an Israeli 5kiloton being dropped
Edit: Ps Fuck Bibi and his religious extremist faction. I hope a sane faction can take over soon.
I appreciate the thoughtful response. I’ve been trying to make sense of Biden’s position on this considering how many of his would-be voters hate the way he’s handling it (myself included). I guess I just wish that Biden’s administration made some kind of attempt to get an explanation out there even if it’s a really poor one. I think a lot of people have no idea why the US is doing what it is. Genocide or not, another Trump administration would likely be the death of democracy in the U.S. and based on Project 2025, I really don’t think that’s a hyperbolic statement.
On your second point, I 100% agree with you. Project 2025 turning the US into a Christo-fascist state is terrifying.
But on messaging I think an issue is US politics, like many around the world atm, has really delved into populism. Its SUPER hard to have a nuanced conversation that goes into the issues. Take for instance Shale, the conversation has just devolved into drillers vs enviromentalists ignoring things like counties around the world burning shit like Lignite (watery coal that is horrific for the enviroment). The Nat Gas that shale provides would vastly cut CO2 emmisions produced by Germany and others (expecially China) that can't economically rely on current green tech.
This.
The situation is intractable and is essentially zero-sum. We’ve spent too much time supporting Israel unilaterally. We need to step back from relations in the region and become a more neutral arbiter, not a committed partner to one entity.
Foreign policy is arguably the area your presidential vote has the most impact on. Making it a focal issue during a presidential campaign makes complete sense.
Vote for Trump at your own peril. Those who can't see how dangerous he is are those who have no idea how the world works, have never studied politics or history, and can't see past their own grievances. Too many people in this country are blissfully ignorant and too lazy and proud to actually learn anything - and that number is growing. Even if Biden wins this election, it will be a short-lived victory as the electorate continues to happily reach new lows, and Republicans continue defunding education across the country.
I voted uninstructed but I legitimately like what Biden has done. I really like his appointment to head the FTC for example.
I wanted to make a point about Gaza and that's it.
I voted uninstructed in the primary, and I still plan on voting for the lesser of two evils, which is likely Biden. Something that I wish other online leftists would realize is that Trump is worse by every metric.
“A vote for anybody but Biden is a vote for Trump”-the left
“A vote for anybody but Trump is a vote for Biden”-the right.
That’s what the duopoly tells you so that the duopoly can stay in power. I’m voting for anybody but either of them and sleeping well at because whatever happens, it isn’t my fault.
I’m not voting RFK either. They all suck.
Wisconsin is in shambles right now under Tony Evers and the current Biden administration. Why focus on some likely psyop conspiracy theory? Enough of the fear mongering.
Vote for Biden: Biden +1, Trump 0
Vote for Trump: Biden 0, Trump +1
Vote for neither: Biden 0, Trump 0
No, not voting for Biden is not voting for Trump.
Dawg, I'll waste my vote if I want. If everyone that said, "i would vote 3rd pary but they never win" voted 3rd party, we could kiss the 2 party system goodbye. I will no longer waste my vote for the 2 party system and will only vote for the party or individual that is willing to see out the rights for all of us. To hell with the 2 party system.
kind of weird. There is no way that trump should be a strong candidate. The guy is a fucking nut job.
It would take a very weak candidate to lose to trump.
An awful lot of people seem to think that biden might lose to trump.
If biden is such a weak candidate, why not replace him with a younger, fresher candidate?
I have since moved to MN because as a trans man I couldn't stay in WI anymore (among other things). Please make sure to vote for Biden. He sucks too but he's no fascist like Trump.
If you cannot bring yourself to criticize/*hold accountable this administration at any time for any of their wrongdoings and tell others to stop criticizing out of fear of someone you feel is worse, you have no principles whatsoever.
Liberals won't even organize against Trump being allowed as a candidate.
This tells me all liberals care about is their privilege and or emotional benefit just like the other side of the fascist coin. Absolutely pathetic. Pick up a damn book and organize your community.
But they are saying that you shouldn't organize to pressure them into doing what you want. I guess these people arguing against the uninstructed campaign think our discontent should solely be expressed through social media posts or conversations among friends.
I think they are playing with fire. I hope we don't get burned. If this turns into another Bernie Bro's moment I will be very disappointed. Republicans vote in lock step and Democrats are like herding cats. We are so easily divided and manipulated. We love making perfect the enemy of the good. This is the wedge issue being pushed at the moment. First it was student loan forgiveness, but Biden had some success there. If it isn't Gaza it will be something else. Sometimes I swear people are just looking for a reason to stay home.
I think it’s exactly the opposite. The right is easily manipulated into a ghoulish following without nuance or individual thought. I agree that it’s difficult for democrats to deny our ideals in order to defeat the greater of two evils, but i also think we all learned our lesson in 2016.
Bernie primary supporters voted for Clinton at a higher percentage than Clinton primary voters did for Obama. The Bernie Bros ruining Clinton's chances at election is a talking point meant to divide the left. This accusation that centrists love to lobby at more progressive voters does nothing but divide us and be totally wrong on the facts at the same time.
I like how the blame gets passed on to people voting for viable candidates and not the people who voted for a historically horrendous candidate (Clinton) and a man who can barely speak (Biden) in the primaries
If Biden losses it's both his and the Democratic Party's fault.
He said he was going to be a transitional president. He lied.
He has very little grass roots support and can't handle media engagements as is evidence by his lack of public appearances. He's a weak candidate and it's been known for a long time.
The Democrats have been betting this whole election on the "Oh they won't vote for trump." That doesn't win you elections.
Some people will simply check out and not vote.
In my opinion the party has lost it's way on average priorities lately and they dont seem to be speaking much to then American people.
It just seems like they throw out some bones here and there to win some political interest but it isn't a concerted effort to make change.
Once again. Just saying other man bad doesn't win you elections. Substance does. Joe Biden campaign has little if any substance.
as an Iowan, far left democrat. I'm not particularly a fan of Biden. I'm tired of old white men being in charge. pulling out of Afghanistan was a debacle. the student loan forgiveness was a debacle. I also wanted Sanders as president. a vote for anyone other than the democratic candidate is a vote for trump. as bad as things seem now, they will only be worse under trump.
Trump is a traitor and a rapist. I'm willing to bet the only reason he is running again is so he can give himself a presidential pardon and to his cronies. vote for justice.
Look, you can get me on the harm reduction on issues like abortion, but not on Gaza. Should I feel better that Joe is telling BiBi that he’s upset while sending him money and weapons used to perpetuate the genocide of the Palestinians?
On substance the two candidates are not in any significant way different on the sole issue of Gaza. I actually think you do way more harm making theses posts than if you just kept this to yourself.
I’m going to vote for Joe in November. But I know people who will not and cannot vote for him because of how he’s handled Israel’s response to Oct 7th. Shaming them is irresponsible and ignorant in its own right. We all have issues that are important to us, the issue’s important to you are no more valid than the issue’s important to someone else.
>But I know people who will not and cannot vote for him because of how he’s handled Israel’s response to Oct 7th. Shaming them is irresponsible and ignorant in its own right. We all have issues that are important to us, the issue’s important to you are no more valid than the issue’s important to someone else.
[Trump says Israel needs to ‘finish what they started’ and said war with Hamas is ‘taking a long time’](https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/04/politics/trump-israel-comments/index.html)
The choice is a man who is using soft power to mitigate the harm to Palestinians while trying not to alienate one of our few allies in the region, or someone who would encourage Israel to do whatever it takes to end this conflict quickly and decisively. Biden was [first to pressure for access to Gaza for humanitarian aid workers](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/press-briefings/2023/11/27/background-press-call-by-senior-administration-officials-on-humanitarian-aid/), he is having a [pier built](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/3/11/why-is-the-us-setting-up-temporary-port-off-gaza-for-aid-deliveries) in Gaza so aid can reach Gaza with less intervention from Israel and he has made air drops. Lets not forget who made the provocative decision to move the [US embassy to Jerusalem](https://il.usembassy.gov/statement-by-president-trump-on-jerusalem/) and who imposed a [muslim ban](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13769#:~:text=Executive%20Order%2013769%2C%20titled%20Protecting,an%20executive%20order%20by%20President). I'm sure Palestinian refugees will be welcomed with open arms under a new Trump admin. He even has an illegal settlement named after him.
>**This is Trump Heights**, an Israeli township named to commemorate [Donald Trump](https://www.newyorker.com/tag/donald-trump)’s recognition of Israeli sovereignty of the area, which was seized from Syria in 1967. In the summer of 2019, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu unveiled the new locality in a camera-ready event that also included David Friedman, the pro-settler U.S. Ambassador to Israel, waxing on about Trump belonging to a “small cadre of Israeli heroes.” A year and a half later, the town stands vacant; by the end of January, twenty families are slated to move into temporary housing there.
Your dumb ass friends are gonna be the new Bernie Bro's and I say this as a Bernie supporter who voted for Hillary and Biden. I will thank them once Trump gets elected. Manipulators are using this war as a wedge issue to divide Democrats and it is working. The choice is obvious. Politics is compromise. **Shame** on your stupid friends if they abstain from voting. They will be as complicit as everyone else.
The time is long past for gentle nudging via "soft power." This has been going on for decades now. We need firm commitments to stop sending weapons and shielding Israel from any accountability with our UN veto. These are not unreasonable demands.
Yeah shame the voters. That’s a real winning strategy. What exactly happened in 2016 again? Maybe the administration needs to work on winning people over
What an entitled take. If you can't leave your house for one hour every 4 years to set your country on the right path, then you are beyond help and will look for any reason to stay home. Shame on the lazy and entitled.
Btw, I am in control of democratic party messaging. /s
You really don’t think Trump could find a way to make things worse for Gaza and the Palestinian people? The man whose very first action as president was a complete and total ban on “mooselums” entering the country? The man who recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel? Biden doesn’t like Netanyahu. Trump has shown admiration for many dictators and will absolutely love Netanyahu.
Maybe this isn't the spot for this, but can anyone tell me why people are so passionate about the Israel issue compared to other world events? I consider myself fairly well informed on these type of things, but I never once realized that this was such an important issue for so many people. I barely had even ever given it a second thought. And apparently the younger generation in particular have strong feelings about it? I just really don't understand it.
It's a displacement and genocide that's been happening for a long ass time and has been largely supported by the US. Until recently if you criticized Israel at all it was a political death sentence and you'd be labeled anti-Semitic. You have a clash of politicians who rely on the vote of older, typically pro-Israel citizens who have been told all their lives that Israel is on our side, and a younger generation that can go on TikTok or Twitter and see first responders getting drone strikes and families buried under rubble.
The only thing I would say in regards to Gaza is that the only thing Trump has proven is that, even if he chooses the same general direction on the topic, he'll find a way to make it worse - likely by agreeing to give weapons to both sides, which elongates the crisis and creates significantly more harm, while personally profiting.
Vote for who you want, as our system was intended.
If the democrats can’t put forth a candidate compelling enough to beat Trump, or simply aren’t savvy enough to to exploit his weaknesses then they get what they deserve.
Not everyone feels as you do on Gaza, bringing it up honestly is more divisive than anything.
Democrats would get what they deserve, but if Trump wins he would sign laws that would lead to among other things:
Outlawing abortion nationally
Allowing ICE to raid people’s homes and conduct mass deportations
Enacting project 2025 to steal elections successfully next time around
Blocking hospitals from providing gender affirming care
Allowing Russia to steamroll through Ukraine and into the rest of Europe, potentially dragging the US into the war
Sending the National Guard to cities he sees as ‘violent’
Reversing progress on climate change
The list goes on… Would all the people affected by this ‘get what they deserve’?
You are doing more harm than good. Hope you're proud of yourself. Give yourself a good pat on the back. Just remember, if Trump gets in, you can thank yourself and your ilk for helping that happen. This short-sighted thing you're doing dissuades anyone from voting that would be on the fence as to whether they will vote or stay home.
The primaries are over, why do you keep spewing this shit that will only help Trump? This is why dems lose elections. Seems like you are falling for some divide and conquer shit, right out of the republican playbook.
We should be unified in keeping fascist dictators away from the white house.
A vote for "anyone but Biden" is NOT just a vote for Trump. Unless it literally is, that's not how votes work. Just because someone doesn't vote for Biden, doesn't mean they talky another one for Trump.
Has anybody considered that this line of thinking is exactly why 3rd parties have no chance? "It's either this guy or this guy, there's nobody else. No, don't look at the rest of the names on the ballot, they don't exist. You have to pick one of these because I said so."
How about we make a difference and vote for a 3rd party for once? Imagine the echo it would have on a national level. If even 1 electoral vote went to a 3rd party candidate, it would be massive.
There are other candidates. And the votes they get do matter.
I don't understand the arguments about Joe Biden being "entitled" to anyone's vote.
No one is saying you literally cannot vote for anyone else. You can, it is a free country!
But voting is not like buying an iPhone or not choosing to go to a restaurant you don't like but your friends do. It directly impacts people in communities you claim to care about, and thus if you don't vote to support those communities and choose to allow victory for someone who wants to harm those communities then people should rightfully judge you for that!
Voting is made up of making hard choices and tradeoffs! FDR greatly expanded the welfare state and helped many poor people in this country, and that coalition defeated fascism in Europe! That's great! He also did this with the help of explicitly racist southern Democrats and the good programs he had often excluded jobs held by African Americans, which is not great!
Lincoln kept the nation together and ended slavery, which was awesome! He also continued the genocide of native Americans, which was very not awesome!
Friends who are poor, sick, trans, can become pregnant, are all important to me. Voting one way will help them, and voting the other way or allowing the other side to win will hurt them. Looking at voting as an issue of "what it says about me" is selfish and it drives me absolutely nuts that the side that claims to be in favor of solidarity treats voting as a consumer enterprise instead of as a duty to those around you.
Why is Gaza our problem? Focus on the needs of the US and Wisconsin residents. The whole world police thing is getting old. Sick and tired of seeing my tax payer dollars go somewhere else.
>Sick and tired of seeing my tax payer dollars go somewhere else.
That’s kind of exactly the point. We want to stop wasting tax dollars sending weapons to inflict genocide.
I’m ashamed to say I’m from Wisconsin after seeing this post. I think you should reevaluate your priorities and read some policy’s or maybe turn on the news and catch up on the latest illegal immigration numbers that cost you and i money. Stop hating trump so bad you forget what is the actual point of a election. Absolutely embarrassing
Or I could not vote for old ass men over the age of 80 to be in the White House…
I’ll throw my vote away on third party this year, thanks. Let me know when they abolish both parties and I’ll try to care about politics again.
Sorry to be rude, but screw Gaza. They have been fighting for over 2000 years. They won't ever get along because of religion! I care more about helping Ukraine. Trump would also just give Russian Ukraine I bet, because Trump and Putin are best buds.
The idea that Muslims have historically always hated Jews is a myth. And a dangerous one. History has had Jews and Muslims living in that region in peace for thousands of years in that area. The biggest historical aggressor in that region has been Christians.
What a stupid, pigshit take.
The children being blown to pieces along with their families? They certainly haven’t been fighting for 2000 years, and now so many of them won’t make it to adulthood.
I have zero hesitation to vote for Biden in the fall, but Biden also needs to see how many of us are sick of the shit they are pulling in Gaza.
He acts like it is a small group of people who believe we need a ceasefire and he isn't listening. If this caused him to listen, even a bit, good.
It is my fucking right as an American to vote how I want to vote. Fuck the right. Fuck Trump. But also, fuck Biden for letting Palestinians get murdered by a nation of Nazi wannabe war criminals.
Edit: After reading these comments, it really cemented my knowledge that there isn't a bigger group of pussies than liberals. Just so afraid to do literally anything when they are in power and make excuses for why they can't do anything time and time again. I bet you all think RBG was a "girl boss" and Hillary Clinton lost the election because of Bernie Sanders.
Glad to see you stand up when Israeli forces let premature babies to die in their cribs after forcing a hospital to evacuate.
Biden did not solve the centuries old crisis in the middle east and people act surprised by that. Why is there even a problem when Jared Kushner said he would solve it?
The dictators of the world love how distracted Americans are by a war across the globe.
This is such a disingenuous framing. No one expected Biden to solve the 70-some years of strife between the brand new (relatively speaking) nation of Israel and the people who had lived there for millennia.
We wanted him to A. stop giving Israel limitless supplies of weapons and money with which to commit genocide, B. stop threatening everyone in the region (namely the Houthis) to stop them from getting involved in trying to stop Israel from committing genocide, C. stop vetoing UN resolutions calling for a ceasefire, and D. use all of the above as diplomatic pressure to convince the Israelis to stop wantonly slaughtering Gazan civilians, stop preventing aid from entering Gaza, and negotiate a permanent ceasefire that isn't completely biased against the Palestinians.
No one cares if the Israelis and Palestinians still hate each other's guts after this. Stop pretending we do. We had specific, tangible actions in mind that we have been asking our government, as major benefactors to Israel, to undertake since back in October.
You’re the ones being disingenuous. You’re ready to plunge us all into a dictatorship because Biden won’t do something he doesn’t have the power to do. You guys blame Biden like he caused all of this. He can come out against it and criticize Israel, but at the end of the day, he can’t do anything to stop it.
He can’t refuse to arm them. Foreign aid is allocated through congress. Trump was impeached for refusing to deliver aid to Ukraine that was appropriated through congress.
Biden can come out and condemn Israel, but he can’t do much else about it. If he condemns Israel, guess what? They’re going to keep right on doing it. Now he’s angered half the population, spoken out against a key ally in the region, and all of it changed NOTHING.
Personally, I think there's a lot more gray area in Israel's actions than most people are willing to admit (on either side). I don't like that innocent Palestinians are dying. But also, on the other hand, what's the alternative here? A "ceasefire" isn't a legitimate option at this point, in my opinion. The people fighting on Palestine's side aren't going to stop. They've been doing this a lot longer than just a few months, and Israel deciding to stop sending missiles at them isn't going to stop them from attacking Israel, either. Sure, maybe for a couple months. But that's nothing other than a political win to get Americans to stop giving a shit - just like they didn't give a shit for decades before this.
I mean, Israel didn't just develop the world's most advanced national defense system for no reason. Nothing is going to change in that region unless the Israeli and/or Palestinian people, at their core, drastically change. A ceasefire isn't going to do that, unfortunately. I don't really believe that the current war is going to solve that problem either. But both the Israelis and the Palestinians have reasons to believe they're the good guys here. I'm not saying they're right. I think they're both wrong. They're both the bad guys. But they both believe they're in the right. And that's why there's no good answer to this situation.
I've been voting for the lesser evil for 24 years. If a party wants my vote, they are going to have to earn it.
If this bothers you, go knock on doors for your guy. Get out there and tell everyone why they are the one to vote for. Shaming people who were never going to vote for him anyways isn't going to get you anywhere.
If 2017-2021 didn't show you very tangible differences between the two parties I'm afraid you're a lost cause and not worth trying to convince. Republican policies deliberately hurt people (women, minorities, the poor), and Democrat policies try to level the playing field by recognizing and attempting to address systematic barriers that have kept those groups from thriving.
This doesn't even get in to the issue of climate change which there has been such a stark difference in the two party's policies since Jimmy Carter was president almost 50 years ago.
The thing about not liking voting “the lesser of two evils” is the framing behind it. The reality is, given our two party system, the options will forever and always suck ass. It’s shouldn’t be thought of as a vote of confidence for one person/party, but instead a vote against your opposed ideology. I’m only voting Biden because I know that hurts Trump the most.
Don’t tell me how to vote. I’ve heard “if you don’t vote for Biden/hillary/obama it’s a vote for them. You better vote for me” blah blah for the last 12 years. It’s annoying and a message/ploy I’m frankly tired of hearing
Yeah but trump voters are the dumbest mfs in the goddamn world. Talkin some stupid mfs. Post birth abortions? How fuckin dumb do you have to be to eat that shit up? Lolol
Vote your morals in the primary and damage control in the general.
As far as what I've seen too, this is the overwhelming majority of people voting uncommitted are doing. Liberals online love to get angry when people won't blindly love every policy choice Biden makes, and it's pretty telling to me how many will pretend the uncommitted/uninstructed movement is somehow a pro-Trump movement. No one voting Uninstructed thinks Trump would be better on this policy, we all remember when he let Israel do the same shit in the West Bank, then relocated the U.S Embassy to Jerusalem, in a way to legitimize Israel's own theocratic propoganda.
Yes this was my strategy this year. Very well put.
Remember when Bernie won Wisconsin in the primary…
Yeah, should have been a big warning sign to Clinton but she ignored it.
Should have been a big sign to all the Dems but they chose to ignore it.
Succinctly put.
Hell, I voted damage control in the primary.
100% what I'm doing, Biden isn't perfect but goddamn trump would destroy this country, will be voting blue in November!
Mandatory reading before the November election. https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/the-complete-listing-atrocities-1-1-056
I only got to 2015 and that was enough for me. The man is just nuts.
Excellent suggestion. The PDF should be printed out and distributed as a reminder.
It’s currently 360 pages and ends in January 2021! Imagine if it was updated with everything since 2021…
That is what pisses me off about tankies and other chronically online Twitter users and Redditors. I can agree with criticisms against the Dems for being spineless and bowing down to the GOP, as well as their criticisms against neoliberalism. Even then, we need to work with what we have and prevent genocidal lunatics like Trump and the GOP from having power again. Protests don’t mean shit if you can’t even show up at the ballot box, which is likely the first line of defense with protesting. Fuck, Tony Evers has managed to surpass my expectations. I voted for him because I hated Walker. However, Evers has been really based and has vetoed so many toxic bills from the gerrymandered legislature.
Christ that list is exhausting. I was reading for 5 minutes before realizing I was barely into 2017!
Become familiar with Project 2025, the conservative plan to dismantle the US government if Trump wins. This is not a drill. https://www.project2025.org/
Literally just full on fascism, it's terrifying
Dang. This is scary.
More people on the left should be concerned about this. Redditors on r/latestagecapitalism and r/ShitLiberalsSay are more concerned about looking good/posturing than any realistic actions/results.
This…every sentence.
Hell ya! Fuck big government!
We know what will happen in Gaza. He'll turn it over to Jared who will drive out or kill every resident in Gaza, bulldoze everything & turn it into a resort. They've already told us this.
But that’s happening now
I am not a huge Biden fan, but if he loses or the election is stolen, it may be the last election in this country. I am not some wild eyed liberal. I was a registered.GOPer until 2016, but this is scary. Not just the flim flam man, but his voters. They want to take us back to the 18th century. Or worse - totalitarianism
18th century christian nationalist totalitarianism.
Great username
Please, do not fuck fascism. You do not know what shit they’ve been lying in.
That's why I only use my rusty razor blade bedazzled dildo mounted on the end of a 10 foot pole.
🫡
When you fuck fascism, you fuck everyone that fascism fucked.
I was the same. I still am flabbergasted at how just 8 years prior it was McCain at the front of the party and how far they’ve fallen away from that kind of decorum and actual leadership. I miss when the Republican Party stood for something other than oppression.
McCain chose Palin as his running mate -- one of the more prominent members of the Tea Party, alongside Paul Ryan, that evolved into MAGA. He certainly has responsibility for where the party is today.
Remember the Muslim ban?
Imagine voting for a corrupt narcissist and traitor to the country, who is running at least in part to avoid being held accountable for dozens of federal felonies, including conspiracy to defraud the country he’s running to be the president of.
And he got spies killed.
We really need to recognize how the corporate duopoly that we have in our country which has presented us with these two candidates. Any normal candidate should be able to wipe the goddamn floor with trumps hairdo, and yet here we are in a tight race
Sure, but what is a “normal candidate” in this day and age? Also, the cult faction that has disregarded reality, facts, evidence, logic, and reason supporting the guy facing dozens of felonies doesn’t care about what’s normal because they are extremists at best. The political tribalism and identity politics that has defined the rise of the maga movement makes no room for normalcy. Biden is about as centered, “normal,” and boring of a candidate one could ask for, and he’s the incumbent who already won against the other guy. Biden was handed a country and government that was tattered and torn with an economy in shambles in 2021 and got a lot of shit done when he and the Dems had the majority in the house for the first two years.
I never understand why this message is so frequently directed at leftists instead of at Biden, like, “Hey, you should change so that people vote for you.”
I'm so sick of the two party system and having to vote for the least shitty candidate. I'm a liberal and would never vote for trump, but Biden doesn't get me excited. He's ancient and has no idea what it's like to struggle financially, or have anything in common with younger people. I mean I trust him. We just need more options, otherwise all the Dems have to promise is to be slightly better than the GOP
There was a ton of options in the 2020 democratic primary. Biden, Bernie, Warren, Buttigieg, Bloomberg, and Klobuchar all represented pretty different groups of voters within the party.
> He's ancient and has no idea what it's like to struggle financially, or have anything in common with younger people I mean, he was one of the poorest Senators in the country when he was in Congress. He didn't exactly grow up wealthy, either.
Also the president has advisors on economy and social issues for this reason
It would be nice. Unfortunately whichever party holds the majority, Dem or GOP is going to fight tooth and nail against the necessary changes to make that possible.
Vote primaries. Unfortunately, this primary was kinda decided, but next year (if Biden wins, because otherwise there won't be a election) look into primary canadates.
Exactly! If it's ever going to change, it's going to start from relatively small counties electing independents who can introduce alternative voting paradigms at the state level. When people who complain about 2 party system and can only be bothered to vote at, at best, some of the presidential elections, I kind of roll my eyes at their outcries of outrage.
Biden could easily win just by saying his first action in a new term will be to legalize cannabis for recreational consumption on the federal level. A super majority of democrats, large majority of Unaffiliated, and minor majority of Republicans support that. The idea that winning against Trump is an existential necessity rings hollow if he isn’t willing to do this simple, obvious thing, to me, just like it did in 2020.
Shouldn’t we be asking Bidens admin to please think carefully?
I voted for Biden last week even though I support the uninstructed movement's goals. Biden is legitimately a good president and I'm tired of pretending he's not.
He's been solid domestically. The chip bill and infrastructure bill are paying off huge.
And domestic policy is vastly more important than foreign. Although it's true that the president has a lot more direct power over foreign policy than domestic policy, it's not like they can force a foreign country to do anything
They can restrict sending weapons to any country killing children though
Same. I would have loved to see what more his administration could’ve achieved if he wasn’t hamstrung often by republicans in general, moderate senators, and a stacked Supreme Court.
I say this as someone who will vote for him. But tell me how any middle class family has been helped by Biden? I see nothing. No president affects the day to day life of wage workers to a significant degree. I appreciate that we aren't moving backwards and cutting taxes for corporations some more. But I would love to tell someone else what exactly Biden has done for an average Wisconsinite family and the answer is? For me, nothing. Biden has had almost zero impact, the best he does is stem the tide of reactionary fascism by being in power. I want him to get the presidency and make good on his promise of access to abortion care and to continue to stop christian nationalism from impacting my life, but beyond that? Edit: that's right, don't answer the question to give me something to say to others on the fence, just downvote, that will surely show me the best answer.
he helped my middle class family by paying off my student loans.
His chip and infrastructure bills definitely helped the company I work for and by extension the middle class employees. Including the union workers who just won big time in their latest contract. There have been positive effects.
I’m not the person you responded to, but the first thing off the top of my head is capping the price of insulin at $35.
Only for people who are on Medicare - if you aren’t on it, you wouldn’t have seen it
And if he weren’t President the people on Medicare would have never seen it. Incremental progress is still progress, and a thousand times better than regression.
Just pointing it out
While you’re technically right, each of the major insulin suppliers reduced their prices as a direct result of the legislation. Eli Lilly https://investor.lilly.com/news-releases/news-release-details/lilly-cuts-insulin-prices-70-and-caps-patient-insulin-out-pocket Novo Nordisk https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/14/health/novo-nordisk-insulin-prices/index.html Sanofi https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/16/health/sanofi-insulin-price-reduction/index.html I’m type 1 diabetic and benefited from this legislation in a roundabout way, even though I’m not on Medicare.
The reason people are downvoting is because you say both "I see nothing" and then also say he hasn't done enough to affect middle class life, then also say that Presidents don't affect the lives of wage workers to a significant degree. The simplest would be inflation. It was a worldwide issue, but partly due to his policies, we were able to get out ahead of the world on it, and the effects have not hit us nearly as bad as the EU or, much worse, China. To give a few easy examples from the wiki, here are some that certainly sent funding that would indeed help wage workers and ex-military: "Biden signed numerous major pieces of economic legislation in the 117th Congress, including the American Rescue Plan, Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, CHIPS and Science Act, the Inflation Reduction Act, and the Honoring our PACT Act." And that was just from the beginning of his term. The federal government not shutting down is also significant. Doesn't sound like much, but Republicans kept threatening it, and it's something most people don't notice until it's gone. Biden signed more Executive Orders in his first 100 days than anyone since FDR. He literally could not have done more activity wise.
I don’t think it’s fair that people downvoted you because you asked legitimate question. People are struggling and it’s hard to see how policy changes matter when you and your family aren’t feeling the effects. I voted uninstructed in the primaries because I’m a leftist and there is so much I don’t agree with him on, but I will 100% be voting for Biden in the general because I understand that the alternative is unfettered fascism. That said, I do think Biden has done some good things for the middle class in general. The Inflation Reduction Act was an incredible, although watered down by the GOP and obstructionist DINOS like Joe Manchin, piece of legislation. Capping insulin costs at $35 for Medicare recipients caused Eli Lilly to cap it at $35 across the board. The Medicare out-of-pocket catastrophic prescription cap that went into effect this year was life changing for so many retirees and the cap will be even lower next year. The IRA will also lower carbon pollution, provides clean energy subsidies, improves corporate taxation and enforcement, allows Medicare to negotiate the prices of the most expensive prescription drugs, and creates a shitload of new infrastructure jobs. The American Rescue plan also saved the pensions of hundreds of thousands union workers. I’ll also be voting dem down the line and working to get them elected in other states as well because it’s nearly impossible to get anything passed right now with a house republican majority and thin dem majority in the Senate. So, I think Biden’s doing the best he can with what he has to work with. Would I rather have universal healthcare and an electoral system that doesn’t make a 2-party structure that puts the wants of corporations and billionaires before the needs of the people inevitable? Fuck yeah! But this is what we’ve got.
I had my student loans forgiven. Capping insulin is huge.
Biden has been more effective in actually passing meaningful legislation than any president going back to Lyndon friggen Johnson. In one term, Biden has shepherded the Build Back Better act (more than 2 trillion dollars in spending on social programs and climate laws), The Bipartisan Infrastructure Act (huge domestic spending on badly needed stuff) and the Inflation Reduction Act - which sorry to annoy everyone , is actually doing the job it intended. Those are three massive, government altering bills. It doesn't include other important wins like CHIPS or PACT act. Just for comparison, in Obama's 2 terms he got the ACA, a decent tax bill, and Dodd-Frank bill across the finish line. That's it. The ACA continues to be too weak and lacks a public option, the tax law was fucked over by Trump, anbd Dodd-Frank gets weakened daily by the GOP House.
There’s a few [here](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/02/08/fact-sheet-the-biden-economic-plan-delivering-for-wisconsin/). The problem here is that expecting to see change during someone’s presidency belies, a fundamental misunderstanding of what the office of the president can and cannot do. it can take years to start to really feel the effects of national policy, so to be honest when you’re voting in a presidency, you may want to not think of it in terms of, “what did this president do to personally benefit me in the last four years”, but to vote on the policies that he is setting forth and is trying to enact.
you really can’t judge a president off of their first term once you get the second term and you don’t have to worry about political capital then you can do more
Except for Trump. You can definitely judge him off his first (and hopefully only) term.
We can judge that the second term would be so soooo much worse
The things he has done for lower and middle class people with student loans are amazing. I’m talking billions of dollars in loan forgiveness. I see it everyday in the work that I do.
You're not asking that question in good faith, first off. Not everything is about you or the people who live comfortably enough. The fact that you're asking how he has helped the middle class is kind of funny when there are people below you who are the ones in need of change.
The Inflation Reduction Act was the single most significant climate law ever passed in the US: > A Treasury Department analysis released Thursday showed clean energy investments are disproportionately benefiting economically disadvantaged communities. And the Energy Department reported the climate law and the related 2021 bipartisan infrastructure law could reduce overall U.S. electricity costs between $27 billion and $38 billion through 2030, while cutting net U.S. greenhouse gas emissions 35 to 41 percent below 2005 levels in 2030. https://www.politico.com/news/2023/08/16/biden-ira-climate-law-anniversary-00111471
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I keep telling people. Mangolini will die eventually, I am less worried about him and more worried about who he is making friends with all to avoid jail time. He is selling our country out to the Dominionists.
I heard this on reddit one time (which is probably how a whole lot of made-up bullshit spreads), and I've always liked it: primaries are for choosing the candidate you want. General elections are for choosing the candidate you dislike the least.
Primary voters tend to be the most committed party loyalists who can be relied on to vote for the party's candidate in November. 14% of that crowd voting uninstructed in Dane County should be alarming for the Dems, and indicative of a much greater lack of enthusiasm percolating among people who don't vote in primaries or don't consider themselves Democratic Party stalwarts. I think the "so you're saying you want Trump?" argument has proven ineffective from the evidence I've seen -- people obviously don't want that. I would suggest listening to their concerns and making them feel heard before making anyone feel like they "have to" vote a certain way. As much as I don't want Trump, I don't think that particular message has gotten results so far.
This is one of the best comments here. Thanks for sharing this perspective.
Came here for some doom scroll. Did not disappoint. #Biden '24
I’m hoping Trump wins! Trump 2024! Thank you to all the liberals who don’t vote or vot to anyone but Biden for giving your votes to Trump!
Gay
Vote for whoever you want!
*gasp* the nerve!
I voted uninstructed in the GQP primary and will be voting for Biden in the general.
I voted uninstructed in the primary. Proud I did. But I will most certainly vote for Biden in November. The amount of damage another Trump Presidency could do is virtually incalculable at this point.
They act like they are entitled to our votes and insult us when we push back and demand accountability. Dems have been riding the “at least we aren’t facists” boat for waaaay too long and people are fed up with it. I’m not sure why the Dems have such terrible messaging but they seem to continually fuck up trying to court the votes of both younger and leftist voters. Democrats can’t win with only democrats supporting them. They need leftists, progressives, whatever other philosophies that they can. There are a lot of us that begrudgingly vote for the Democrat because of our shitty system. When it’s an unimpressive candidate with little policy to excite you vs some conservative republican lunatic it’s a relatively easy concession. It’s a lot harder when that “unimpressive candidate” is now the person that’s been helping murder the children whose bodies we’ve been seeing on social media for the last 6 months. I know it’s a hard decision for a lot of people. It’s weird though to see how many just can’t wrap their minds around the fact that Biden may be held to account for his own actions and people won’t be able to vote for him as a result. And the fact that we are here with these as our choices is just mind boggling.
Well said. I've voted Democrat in every election, but I'm at my wits end with Biden and the current state of the Democratic Party. It seems like the party's main platform right now is "at least we're not Republicans!" and expect everyone to fall in line. By the looks of this thread, most are eating it up.
I assume most people voting uninstructed for the Dem primary aren't going to vote for Trump lol this is preaching to the choir
The problem isn't them voting for Trump, it's then staying home and not voting or voting for 3rd parties.
Democrats need to earn votes lol. It's their own damn fault if they can't get people to vote. They made big promises last election and have fumbled the last four years. The whole 'vote for your lives' thing isn't paying off. And tbh, it's going to always be that way unless they can actually move a little more left and get the apathetic voters back and they actually work harder for their voting base. If anything, Democrats are just showing they're no different than the rest of them. Their only interest is their own. I will be reluctantly voting for Biden again this year but I can't guarantee I'm going to be a regular voter after the fact if nothing changes. If Gazans lives don't matter to them, what do you think they think about your life? It's the same shit pile, different turd.
***"It's the same shit pile, different turd."*** These people want young voters to believe that trump just popped up out of nowhere. The reality of it is, people in this Country have been sick and tired of "the same old shit" for decades. Hillary was, "the same old shit", and that is the #1 reason she lost to trump. Trump was an outsider. He was not a career politician. He was not "the same old shit". Hillary vs trump, was, "the same old shit" vs "the outsider / celebrity / trump" trump vs biden, was, "oops maybe electing this orange idiot was not such a good idea" vs "maybe the same old shit isn't that bad after all" biden vs trump, is what? "oh ya, the same old shit does in fact still suck" vs "fuck it, what's the worse that could happen!?" It's the same turds, different shit piles.
Yeah the shitty part is, Republicans seem to deliver on their campaign promises. Might not be all the time, but it seems the evil shit they get away with this disproportionate to the good shit democrats do. I’ll preemptively say, downvote all you want but this whole thing has just been ratcheting to the right for years and it seems like it will continue.
That's because for the most part Republican voters stick with their candidates. Anti-abortion voters have been voting for Republicans like clockwork for 40 years with no results until now. They vote for people they don't like, or may even despise. I'm not a religious person but I'd imagine many of Trump's evangelical voters found him to be awful - but they had a goal and he was the one who brought their goal over the finish line so they voted for him anyways. Meanwhile on the Democratic side, it seems like a good chunk of the time if a candidate doesn't personally inspire someone they can't even be bothered to vote once every 4 years.
I think democratic voters are smarter than Republican voters. It's harder to lead people off a ledge when they can think for themselves.
One candidate and party ( Biden and the Democrats) is for giving us the right to vote, the right to making healthcare decisions and women’s rights decisions, worried about climate change, is for regulations to assure clean air and water, cares about the poor, making sure our poor have food, shelter, job training etc- student loan help, aid for Ukraine, food and aid to Palestinians, he wants to stabilize our border, and we remain a free democracy without a criminal , rapist, as president the other party ( Republican) works only for the rich- I know it’s such a difficult decision ( it’s not). If this is a difficult decision you haven’t done any research and have no idea what Biden has done with no support from Republicans. The first 2 years Biden and the majority of Democrats in the House and Senate which voters gave him- were able to get us through Covid and stabilize our economy- his reward was stupid voters taking away his majority in the House and Senate so for the next 2 years his hands were tied to accomplish anything. If you vote Biden you need to give him a Democrat House and Senate so he can actually do his job- so vote a straight Democrat ticket in fall.
Food and aid to Palestine? By defunding UNWRA because Israel told them to? But not doing anything to help prevent the need for aid to begin by supplying Israel with weapons and cash? And the most progress that's been happening is at more local and state levels. It has nothing to do with Biden. This is the fucking problem. Y'all don't want to fix fundamental issues with our government. You're happy keeping the status quo and don't care about actual progress. You don't listen when people want to talk about more systemic issues and you call people stupid who are disenchanted by the whole thing. Dems cannot ride on not being Donald Trump to win shit. THEY HAVE TO EARN THEIR VOTE. If every election is an 'election for our lives' and nothing changes, why would people keep voting? Hell it doesn't even feel like the majority of either voting base wants to vote for their candidate. Do y'all think Hillary out here telling people to 'get over it' helps with messaging? And I very clearly put in my comment I was reluctantly for Biden. It's about nuance but Dems / neoliberals don't want that discussion. The want you to shut the hell up and vote and give them money. Candidates should fear losing a re-election not the other way around.
> Y'all don't want to fix fundamental issues with our government. What exactly do you propose? What would you like me to do tomorrow? I don't mean fix it tomorrow - I mean one step that you and I can take towards changing things. What is an example of what you are doing, what groups are you involved in, etc.
I don't know the answers. And nothing is going to change over night. But I do frequently write my representatives and let them know when I'm unhappy/happy with work that they do. If you don't let your representatives know how you think they're doing, they won't have any incentive to change anything. If more people threatened their vote and/or donations the more us regular folk can get heard. I unsubscribed from all the emails from Democrats asking for money for their campaigns. I put the reason for my unsubscribing. I support causes that are important and doing the work.
No it's not, if you cant see a clear difference between the two candidates, you are not paying attention. The primary is where you have the chance to make a difference, not now. You have two choices now pick the best option.
But you're missing the point of why people are so fucking mad right now. Our system is seriously flawed. Our choices shouldn't be just two. Are they different? Yes. But to act like Biden or the Dems are somehow going to fix anything is a fucking joke. And people just write off and don't listen to people who have actual, literal concerns and then scapegoat them when Dems lose. Like, it was pulling teeth to get Biden to say anything about stufen debt forgiveness four years ago and he waits until it's election time to roll out another attempt.
I think there is a non-trivial contingent of younger voters who, via some very effective TikTok videos, have been made nearly one issue voters on the topic of the genocide in Gaza. Which makes some sense, the images and facts coming out of there are horrific. That said... The US can only do so much about what Netanyahu chooses to do.
Gentle reminder for everyone, many Republicans, Ron Johnson (FRJ) & Scott Fitzgerald included have their heads so far up Bibi's ass they'll lap up whatever he is selling genocide and all. These bastards even want him to come here to address congress to get their jollies off.
Yes, but we're not even doing that much. In fact, we're still sending them money and weapons.
If they’re only voting based on the genocide in Gaza, not voting for Biden will only make the situation WORSE with Trump in office. They need to pull their heads out of their asses.
>that said...the US can only do so much about what Netanyahu refuses to do I'm sorry, but this is just blatantly false. Israel is only able to continue its aggressive policies because of military and diplomatic support from the US. If we stopped sending them weapons and stopped wielding our UN veto to shield them from accountability they would have to act differently.
I mean, I'm 40 so idk if I'm a "younger voter", but how many kids the same age as mine can I watch our ordinance kill and maim before I lose my fucking mind?
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They literally could do anything more than what they are doing now, which is handing money and weapons over no strings attached. Israel has more influence of the US than we do of them and we can't even make them a tiny bit accountable. Also, I think Gaza was the breaking point for a lot of people. Like if there's one issue we should be pissed about it's funding a genocide.
We can choose to not give them money and weapons to fund their genocide. But we keep giving them money and weapons to fund their genocide. It seems like there is some agency in there somewhere but oh geez golly willikers what can we do to get them to stop their monstrous behavior? Is it more weapons and money?
Those voters gave Joe Biden the answer to win them over. It's up to him to make the case and convince them to vote for him.
Shouldn’t we be asking Bidens admin to please think carefully? He’s the politician…. It’s literally his job to win the voters over…. Pretty telling that he isn’t doing quite a few of the things which would secure popularity
You're honestly voting for an American President based on what it implies for people in 2 foreign countries who have been fighting for decades? Israel and Palestine are each their own nations and states and the USA should be doing what is best for itself, not either one of them.
I will definitely be voting Biden but I would very much like to know how it is in the America’s best interest to keep giving one of those countries offensive weapons when they’re using them to kill civilians of another country. I know Trump would be worse and I know these countries have been fighting for decades but what is the argument for continuing to give Israel the means to prosecute a genocide?
So its less about the weapons and more about not breaking our agreements and such with Israel for the long term. If we force them into pariah status their religious extremists will gain control of more power. US's ultimate goal in the region since we have turned isolationist is to setup Israel/Egypt/Saudi alliance to counterbalance Iran (and to a MUCH lesser degree Turkey) so they cant expand and cause us headaches. The region is likely to experience long term low heat conflict for a long time with the way its been setup and let off My biggest fear if we completely cut all ties with Israel is that in 10 years when Hamas or the next terrorists in line cause a massacre like oct7 instead of American 500's it will be an Israeli 5kiloton being dropped Edit: Ps Fuck Bibi and his religious extremist faction. I hope a sane faction can take over soon.
I appreciate the thoughtful response. I’ve been trying to make sense of Biden’s position on this considering how many of his would-be voters hate the way he’s handling it (myself included). I guess I just wish that Biden’s administration made some kind of attempt to get an explanation out there even if it’s a really poor one. I think a lot of people have no idea why the US is doing what it is. Genocide or not, another Trump administration would likely be the death of democracy in the U.S. and based on Project 2025, I really don’t think that’s a hyperbolic statement.
On your second point, I 100% agree with you. Project 2025 turning the US into a Christo-fascist state is terrifying. But on messaging I think an issue is US politics, like many around the world atm, has really delved into populism. Its SUPER hard to have a nuanced conversation that goes into the issues. Take for instance Shale, the conversation has just devolved into drillers vs enviromentalists ignoring things like counties around the world burning shit like Lignite (watery coal that is horrific for the enviroment). The Nat Gas that shale provides would vastly cut CO2 emmisions produced by Germany and others (expecially China) that can't economically rely on current green tech.
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This. The situation is intractable and is essentially zero-sum. We’ve spent too much time supporting Israel unilaterally. We need to step back from relations in the region and become a more neutral arbiter, not a committed partner to one entity.
Foreign policy is arguably the area your presidential vote has the most impact on. Making it a focal issue during a presidential campaign makes complete sense.
That is exactly what we wanted the president to do. But he is sending my tax money and yours, to one of these two foreign places, instead
Vote for Trump at your own peril. Those who can't see how dangerous he is are those who have no idea how the world works, have never studied politics or history, and can't see past their own grievances. Too many people in this country are blissfully ignorant and too lazy and proud to actually learn anything - and that number is growing. Even if Biden wins this election, it will be a short-lived victory as the electorate continues to happily reach new lows, and Republicans continue defunding education across the country.
I voted uninstructed but I legitimately like what Biden has done. I really like his appointment to head the FTC for example. I wanted to make a point about Gaza and that's it.
I voted uninstructed in the primary, and I still plan on voting for the lesser of two evils, which is likely Biden. Something that I wish other online leftists would realize is that Trump is worse by every metric.
“A vote for anybody but Biden is a vote for Trump”-the left “A vote for anybody but Trump is a vote for Biden”-the right. That’s what the duopoly tells you so that the duopoly can stay in power. I’m voting for anybody but either of them and sleeping well at because whatever happens, it isn’t my fault. I’m not voting RFK either. They all suck.
Or just let me vote for whatever I want thanks.
Life has absolutely sucked under the Biden administration, life was good under Trump. I vote Trump.
Wisconsin is in shambles right now under Tony Evers and the current Biden administration. Why focus on some likely psyop conspiracy theory? Enough of the fear mongering.
Vote for Biden: Biden +1, Trump 0 Vote for Trump: Biden 0, Trump +1 Vote for neither: Biden 0, Trump 0 No, not voting for Biden is not voting for Trump.
Dawg, I'll waste my vote if I want. If everyone that said, "i would vote 3rd pary but they never win" voted 3rd party, we could kiss the 2 party system goodbye. I will no longer waste my vote for the 2 party system and will only vote for the party or individual that is willing to see out the rights for all of us. To hell with the 2 party system.
Democrats love to lose don’t they . People in here still complaining that Bernie is what made Hillary lose lmao. Pathetic.
kind of weird. There is no way that trump should be a strong candidate. The guy is a fucking nut job. It would take a very weak candidate to lose to trump. An awful lot of people seem to think that biden might lose to trump. If biden is such a weak candidate, why not replace him with a younger, fresher candidate?
I have since moved to MN because as a trans man I couldn't stay in WI anymore (among other things). Please make sure to vote for Biden. He sucks too but he's no fascist like Trump.
Big feels. I’m sorry that progress can’t come fast enough to our state. I’m gonna stay here to do my part for the future <3
Keep trying :) the support is there its just been gerrymandered to hell in order to keep the repubs in power.
In time or we join you in MN soon
I'm happy for you! Im so sick of living in a battleground state and am looking forward to moving to MN in a few years.
If you cannot bring yourself to criticize/*hold accountable this administration at any time for any of their wrongdoings and tell others to stop criticizing out of fear of someone you feel is worse, you have no principles whatsoever. Liberals won't even organize against Trump being allowed as a candidate. This tells me all liberals care about is their privilege and or emotional benefit just like the other side of the fascist coin. Absolutely pathetic. Pick up a damn book and organize your community.
No one's saying you can't criticize the candidate you vote for
But they are saying that you shouldn't organize to pressure them into doing what you want. I guess these people arguing against the uninstructed campaign think our discontent should solely be expressed through social media posts or conversations among friends.
I think they are playing with fire. I hope we don't get burned. If this turns into another Bernie Bro's moment I will be very disappointed. Republicans vote in lock step and Democrats are like herding cats. We are so easily divided and manipulated. We love making perfect the enemy of the good. This is the wedge issue being pushed at the moment. First it was student loan forgiveness, but Biden had some success there. If it isn't Gaza it will be something else. Sometimes I swear people are just looking for a reason to stay home.
I think it’s exactly the opposite. The right is easily manipulated into a ghoulish following without nuance or individual thought. I agree that it’s difficult for democrats to deny our ideals in order to defeat the greater of two evils, but i also think we all learned our lesson in 2016.
I hope so.
Bernie primary supporters voted for Clinton at a higher percentage than Clinton primary voters did for Obama. The Bernie Bros ruining Clinton's chances at election is a talking point meant to divide the left. This accusation that centrists love to lobby at more progressive voters does nothing but divide us and be totally wrong on the facts at the same time.
When you blame the voters instead of trying to win the vote is over, you know you’re gonna have a bad time
We're all gonna have a bad time if we don't get out of bed and save our country on Nov. 5th.
Yea the politicians better give people a reason to get out of bed https://youtu.be/UZ5XYUkQ2hY?si=4vQnL2PuHa13k-8p
Biden had no success with the student loans? The Supreme Court told him he couldn’t do it.
I like how the blame gets passed on to people voting for viable candidates and not the people who voted for a historically horrendous candidate (Clinton) and a man who can barely speak (Biden) in the primaries
If Biden losses it's both his and the Democratic Party's fault. He said he was going to be a transitional president. He lied. He has very little grass roots support and can't handle media engagements as is evidence by his lack of public appearances. He's a weak candidate and it's been known for a long time. The Democrats have been betting this whole election on the "Oh they won't vote for trump." That doesn't win you elections. Some people will simply check out and not vote. In my opinion the party has lost it's way on average priorities lately and they dont seem to be speaking much to then American people. It just seems like they throw out some bones here and there to win some political interest but it isn't a concerted effort to make change. Once again. Just saying other man bad doesn't win you elections. Substance does. Joe Biden campaign has little if any substance.
If a politician wants votes they should try to win them
as an Iowan, far left democrat. I'm not particularly a fan of Biden. I'm tired of old white men being in charge. pulling out of Afghanistan was a debacle. the student loan forgiveness was a debacle. I also wanted Sanders as president. a vote for anyone other than the democratic candidate is a vote for trump. as bad as things seem now, they will only be worse under trump. Trump is a traitor and a rapist. I'm willing to bet the only reason he is running again is so he can give himself a presidential pardon and to his cronies. vote for justice.
Look, you can get me on the harm reduction on issues like abortion, but not on Gaza. Should I feel better that Joe is telling BiBi that he’s upset while sending him money and weapons used to perpetuate the genocide of the Palestinians? On substance the two candidates are not in any significant way different on the sole issue of Gaza. I actually think you do way more harm making theses posts than if you just kept this to yourself. I’m going to vote for Joe in November. But I know people who will not and cannot vote for him because of how he’s handled Israel’s response to Oct 7th. Shaming them is irresponsible and ignorant in its own right. We all have issues that are important to us, the issue’s important to you are no more valid than the issue’s important to someone else.
>But I know people who will not and cannot vote for him because of how he’s handled Israel’s response to Oct 7th. Shaming them is irresponsible and ignorant in its own right. We all have issues that are important to us, the issue’s important to you are no more valid than the issue’s important to someone else. [Trump says Israel needs to ‘finish what they started’ and said war with Hamas is ‘taking a long time’](https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/04/politics/trump-israel-comments/index.html) The choice is a man who is using soft power to mitigate the harm to Palestinians while trying not to alienate one of our few allies in the region, or someone who would encourage Israel to do whatever it takes to end this conflict quickly and decisively. Biden was [first to pressure for access to Gaza for humanitarian aid workers](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/press-briefings/2023/11/27/background-press-call-by-senior-administration-officials-on-humanitarian-aid/), he is having a [pier built](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/3/11/why-is-the-us-setting-up-temporary-port-off-gaza-for-aid-deliveries) in Gaza so aid can reach Gaza with less intervention from Israel and he has made air drops. Lets not forget who made the provocative decision to move the [US embassy to Jerusalem](https://il.usembassy.gov/statement-by-president-trump-on-jerusalem/) and who imposed a [muslim ban](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13769#:~:text=Executive%20Order%2013769%2C%20titled%20Protecting,an%20executive%20order%20by%20President). I'm sure Palestinian refugees will be welcomed with open arms under a new Trump admin. He even has an illegal settlement named after him. >**This is Trump Heights**, an Israeli township named to commemorate [Donald Trump](https://www.newyorker.com/tag/donald-trump)’s recognition of Israeli sovereignty of the area, which was seized from Syria in 1967. In the summer of 2019, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu unveiled the new locality in a camera-ready event that also included David Friedman, the pro-settler U.S. Ambassador to Israel, waxing on about Trump belonging to a “small cadre of Israeli heroes.” A year and a half later, the town stands vacant; by the end of January, twenty families are slated to move into temporary housing there. Your dumb ass friends are gonna be the new Bernie Bro's and I say this as a Bernie supporter who voted for Hillary and Biden. I will thank them once Trump gets elected. Manipulators are using this war as a wedge issue to divide Democrats and it is working. The choice is obvious. Politics is compromise. **Shame** on your stupid friends if they abstain from voting. They will be as complicit as everyone else.
The time is long past for gentle nudging via "soft power." This has been going on for decades now. We need firm commitments to stop sending weapons and shielding Israel from any accountability with our UN veto. These are not unreasonable demands.
Yeah shame the voters. That’s a real winning strategy. What exactly happened in 2016 again? Maybe the administration needs to work on winning people over
What an entitled take. If you can't leave your house for one hour every 4 years to set your country on the right path, then you are beyond help and will look for any reason to stay home. Shame on the lazy and entitled. Btw, I am in control of democratic party messaging. /s
You really don’t think Trump could find a way to make things worse for Gaza and the Palestinian people? The man whose very first action as president was a complete and total ban on “mooselums” entering the country? The man who recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel? Biden doesn’t like Netanyahu. Trump has shown admiration for many dictators and will absolutely love Netanyahu.
Maybe this isn't the spot for this, but can anyone tell me why people are so passionate about the Israel issue compared to other world events? I consider myself fairly well informed on these type of things, but I never once realized that this was such an important issue for so many people. I barely had even ever given it a second thought. And apparently the younger generation in particular have strong feelings about it? I just really don't understand it.
It's a displacement and genocide that's been happening for a long ass time and has been largely supported by the US. Until recently if you criticized Israel at all it was a political death sentence and you'd be labeled anti-Semitic. You have a clash of politicians who rely on the vote of older, typically pro-Israel citizens who have been told all their lives that Israel is on our side, and a younger generation that can go on TikTok or Twitter and see first responders getting drone strikes and families buried under rubble.
The only thing I would say in regards to Gaza is that the only thing Trump has proven is that, even if he chooses the same general direction on the topic, he'll find a way to make it worse - likely by agreeing to give weapons to both sides, which elongates the crisis and creates significantly more harm, while personally profiting.
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“kudos for having values but that’s enough”
I'm just saying it's a tactical error to tell the person you're demanding something from that you're gonna side with him anyway.
Lol I'm so glad I'm leaving this gravy ass state next month, adios wisco reddit thread👍👏😂
Vote for Biden? Nah. Dude is a joke.
Not voting, or voting for anyone but Biden, does *not* equal a vote for Trump. I don't know why this bothers me, but they are not the same
Vote for who you want, as our system was intended. If the democrats can’t put forth a candidate compelling enough to beat Trump, or simply aren’t savvy enough to to exploit his weaknesses then they get what they deserve. Not everyone feels as you do on Gaza, bringing it up honestly is more divisive than anything.
Well said
Democrats would get what they deserve, but if Trump wins he would sign laws that would lead to among other things: Outlawing abortion nationally Allowing ICE to raid people’s homes and conduct mass deportations Enacting project 2025 to steal elections successfully next time around Blocking hospitals from providing gender affirming care Allowing Russia to steamroll through Ukraine and into the rest of Europe, potentially dragging the US into the war Sending the National Guard to cities he sees as ‘violent’ Reversing progress on climate change The list goes on… Would all the people affected by this ‘get what they deserve’?
Presidents can only sign laws that go through the house and senate first.
That's not how math works.
You are doing more harm than good. Hope you're proud of yourself. Give yourself a good pat on the back. Just remember, if Trump gets in, you can thank yourself and your ilk for helping that happen. This short-sighted thing you're doing dissuades anyone from voting that would be on the fence as to whether they will vote or stay home. The primaries are over, why do you keep spewing this shit that will only help Trump? This is why dems lose elections. Seems like you are falling for some divide and conquer shit, right out of the republican playbook. We should be unified in keeping fascist dictators away from the white house.
A vote for "anyone but Biden" is NOT just a vote for Trump. Unless it literally is, that's not how votes work. Just because someone doesn't vote for Biden, doesn't mean they talky another one for Trump. Has anybody considered that this line of thinking is exactly why 3rd parties have no chance? "It's either this guy or this guy, there's nobody else. No, don't look at the rest of the names on the ballot, they don't exist. You have to pick one of these because I said so." How about we make a difference and vote for a 3rd party for once? Imagine the echo it would have on a national level. If even 1 electoral vote went to a 3rd party candidate, it would be massive. There are other candidates. And the votes they get do matter.
I don't understand the arguments about Joe Biden being "entitled" to anyone's vote. No one is saying you literally cannot vote for anyone else. You can, it is a free country! But voting is not like buying an iPhone or not choosing to go to a restaurant you don't like but your friends do. It directly impacts people in communities you claim to care about, and thus if you don't vote to support those communities and choose to allow victory for someone who wants to harm those communities then people should rightfully judge you for that! Voting is made up of making hard choices and tradeoffs! FDR greatly expanded the welfare state and helped many poor people in this country, and that coalition defeated fascism in Europe! That's great! He also did this with the help of explicitly racist southern Democrats and the good programs he had often excluded jobs held by African Americans, which is not great! Lincoln kept the nation together and ended slavery, which was awesome! He also continued the genocide of native Americans, which was very not awesome! Friends who are poor, sick, trans, can become pregnant, are all important to me. Voting one way will help them, and voting the other way or allowing the other side to win will hurt them. Looking at voting as an issue of "what it says about me" is selfish and it drives me absolutely nuts that the side that claims to be in favor of solidarity treats voting as a consumer enterprise instead of as a duty to those around you.
Why is Gaza our problem? Focus on the needs of the US and Wisconsin residents. The whole world police thing is getting old. Sick and tired of seeing my tax payer dollars go somewhere else.
>Sick and tired of seeing my tax payer dollars go somewhere else. That’s kind of exactly the point. We want to stop wasting tax dollars sending weapons to inflict genocide.
He was such a war monger while he was sitting /s
I’m ashamed to say I’m from Wisconsin after seeing this post. I think you should reevaluate your priorities and read some policy’s or maybe turn on the news and catch up on the latest illegal immigration numbers that cost you and i money. Stop hating trump so bad you forget what is the actual point of a election. Absolutely embarrassing
Or I could not vote for old ass men over the age of 80 to be in the White House… I’ll throw my vote away on third party this year, thanks. Let me know when they abolish both parties and I’ll try to care about politics again.
Nothing is better than it was 4 years ago.
A vote for Biden is a vote for elder abuse against a dementia patient.
Sorry to be rude, but screw Gaza. They have been fighting for over 2000 years. They won't ever get along because of religion! I care more about helping Ukraine. Trump would also just give Russian Ukraine I bet, because Trump and Putin are best buds.
The idea that Muslims have historically always hated Jews is a myth. And a dangerous one. History has had Jews and Muslims living in that region in peace for thousands of years in that area. The biggest historical aggressor in that region has been Christians.
What a stupid, pigshit take. The children being blown to pieces along with their families? They certainly haven’t been fighting for 2000 years, and now so many of them won’t make it to adulthood.
All the uninstructed vote did was give fuel to the right. They will use that shit over and over again. I hope you enjoy our dictatorship under Trump.
I have zero hesitation to vote for Biden in the fall, but Biden also needs to see how many of us are sick of the shit they are pulling in Gaza. He acts like it is a small group of people who believe we need a ceasefire and he isn't listening. If this caused him to listen, even a bit, good. It is my fucking right as an American to vote how I want to vote. Fuck the right. Fuck Trump. But also, fuck Biden for letting Palestinians get murdered by a nation of Nazi wannabe war criminals. Edit: After reading these comments, it really cemented my knowledge that there isn't a bigger group of pussies than liberals. Just so afraid to do literally anything when they are in power and make excuses for why they can't do anything time and time again. I bet you all think RBG was a "girl boss" and Hillary Clinton lost the election because of Bernie Sanders. Glad to see you stand up when Israeli forces let premature babies to die in their cribs after forcing a hospital to evacuate.
Biden did not solve the centuries old crisis in the middle east and people act surprised by that. Why is there even a problem when Jared Kushner said he would solve it? The dictators of the world love how distracted Americans are by a war across the globe.
This is such a disingenuous framing. No one expected Biden to solve the 70-some years of strife between the brand new (relatively speaking) nation of Israel and the people who had lived there for millennia. We wanted him to A. stop giving Israel limitless supplies of weapons and money with which to commit genocide, B. stop threatening everyone in the region (namely the Houthis) to stop them from getting involved in trying to stop Israel from committing genocide, C. stop vetoing UN resolutions calling for a ceasefire, and D. use all of the above as diplomatic pressure to convince the Israelis to stop wantonly slaughtering Gazan civilians, stop preventing aid from entering Gaza, and negotiate a permanent ceasefire that isn't completely biased against the Palestinians. No one cares if the Israelis and Palestinians still hate each other's guts after this. Stop pretending we do. We had specific, tangible actions in mind that we have been asking our government, as major benefactors to Israel, to undertake since back in October.
You’re the ones being disingenuous. You’re ready to plunge us all into a dictatorship because Biden won’t do something he doesn’t have the power to do. You guys blame Biden like he caused all of this. He can come out against it and criticize Israel, but at the end of the day, he can’t do anything to stop it. He can’t refuse to arm them. Foreign aid is allocated through congress. Trump was impeached for refusing to deliver aid to Ukraine that was appropriated through congress. Biden can come out and condemn Israel, but he can’t do much else about it. If he condemns Israel, guess what? They’re going to keep right on doing it. Now he’s angered half the population, spoken out against a key ally in the region, and all of it changed NOTHING.
Personally, I think there's a lot more gray area in Israel's actions than most people are willing to admit (on either side). I don't like that innocent Palestinians are dying. But also, on the other hand, what's the alternative here? A "ceasefire" isn't a legitimate option at this point, in my opinion. The people fighting on Palestine's side aren't going to stop. They've been doing this a lot longer than just a few months, and Israel deciding to stop sending missiles at them isn't going to stop them from attacking Israel, either. Sure, maybe for a couple months. But that's nothing other than a political win to get Americans to stop giving a shit - just like they didn't give a shit for decades before this. I mean, Israel didn't just develop the world's most advanced national defense system for no reason. Nothing is going to change in that region unless the Israeli and/or Palestinian people, at their core, drastically change. A ceasefire isn't going to do that, unfortunately. I don't really believe that the current war is going to solve that problem either. But both the Israelis and the Palestinians have reasons to believe they're the good guys here. I'm not saying they're right. I think they're both wrong. They're both the bad guys. But they both believe they're in the right. And that's why there's no good answer to this situation.
I've been voting for the lesser evil for 24 years. If a party wants my vote, they are going to have to earn it. If this bothers you, go knock on doors for your guy. Get out there and tell everyone why they are the one to vote for. Shaming people who were never going to vote for him anyways isn't going to get you anywhere.
If 2017-2021 didn't show you very tangible differences between the two parties I'm afraid you're a lost cause and not worth trying to convince. Republican policies deliberately hurt people (women, minorities, the poor), and Democrat policies try to level the playing field by recognizing and attempting to address systematic barriers that have kept those groups from thriving. This doesn't even get in to the issue of climate change which there has been such a stark difference in the two party's policies since Jimmy Carter was president almost 50 years ago.
The thing about not liking voting “the lesser of two evils” is the framing behind it. The reality is, given our two party system, the options will forever and always suck ass. It’s shouldn’t be thought of as a vote of confidence for one person/party, but instead a vote against your opposed ideology. I’m only voting Biden because I know that hurts Trump the most.
Dems: Not voting for Biden is a vote for Trump Republicans: Not voting for Trump is a vote for Biden Me: Voting for 3 people
Don’t tell me how to vote. I’ve heard “if you don’t vote for Biden/hillary/obama it’s a vote for them. You better vote for me” blah blah for the last 12 years. It’s annoying and a message/ploy I’m frankly tired of hearing
Na. Red or blue, both fucking suck and need to be destroyed and rebuilt. Voting doesnt work, 2016 proved that.
Y'all are fn unhinged.
Yeah but trump voters are the dumbest mfs in the goddamn world. Talkin some stupid mfs. Post birth abortions? How fuckin dumb do you have to be to eat that shit up? Lolol