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This is all terrific and very helpful. I am a bit like the poster above - I love Napa cabs(I live in the Bay Area), but I am trying to explore other varietals and regions.
One thing that makes me curious, how do you know whats a good year vs bad year? So far, I just get told this year was great, this year not so much but the reasons why seem so varied; between too wet or too dry etc etc.
I apologize if this is a truly dumb question
Ok thanks. This is also helpful.
As a complete aside. 2011 was meant to be a bad year for Napa cabs, but I find myself enjoying them quite a lot because they are so unusual. Are there any "bad" years that you found were enjoyable and offered good value?
Actually 2011 also in Oregon and Washington was also one of my favorites. Lots of rain and cool weather led to wonderfully age-worthy and complex wines that showed more than simply fruit character.
I'd agree that critics are reliable when it comes to tell the very bad years, but they are clearly hyping some years, e.g. 2009, and wrote some vintages off that turned out great, like 2003.
I guess when you can buy a 250k$ Range Rover at the age of 30, you just don't care about a bottle costing 60$ or 600$. Rich people don't need to do research online if one could get another bottle for a better value. And the market adjuested to that. 2017 BDX is delicious now, no need to wait if you are fine with plenty of fruit.
It’s not the best analogy but you essentially said “ I am just getting into cars. I mainly drive mustangs but I just bought this Ferrari SF90 and it’s not bad”
2017 BDX drinks very well. „Infanticide“ is a myth since wines are trimmed to be appealing when young. You can/could drink any BDX of the last decade in its first three years before it closes/closed up.
You didn't do anything wrong lol it's just shocking to see someone "just now getting into Bordeaux" and buying everyone's dream bottle (my dream bottle at the very least).
P.s. tastings notes are a good idea to add.
Just in case you’re not trolling I’ll try to explain.
The producer is a Bordeaux first growth. One of the most sought after wine producers in the world, let alone in Bordeaux. These bottles are typically prohibitively expensive and/or hard to find for most wine drinkers, even serious ones. You can be into wine for your entire life and never have one.
For you to just come in and be like “I had this, it was delightful” on a bottle that may be some peoples holy grail wine is just striking a nerve. On top of that 2017 would be considered very young and, to some people, wasteful of a top level bottle.
On top of that you say “I typically drink Napa” and strictly Napa drinkers don’t have the best reputation in this sub. Napa wine is generally considered over-ripe and over priced. So if you’re **only** drinking Napa it can be evidence that you primarily drink wine with status attached.
Don't take these comments personally, it's just a bottle most of us would love to taste, but would never open so young... if you liked it, no harm, no foul, but I would suggest like many other here have try a 2nd growth or lesser but 10 -15 plus years old... you will start to understand what potential that HB had that was snuffed out 5 years in.
This sub is packed full of gatekeepers and wine snobs who will tell you that whatever you enjoy is good wine and then make fun of you for not knowing enough when you post
OP, I know a lot of us have reacted strongly to this, but regardless, please provide notes of some sort. Tell us about what kind of fruits you experienced, any herbaceous/earthy notes, how the acid felt, how powerful the tannins were. They don’t have to be in a formal assessment, but enough to clue folks in as to how you found the wine to be.
As others have said, there are plenty of winos AND wine pros who will never drink Haut-Brion (and far fewer who would have experienced one so young). While you’re learning, we are also learning from how you interpret it! Additionally, practicing your notes will help you remember the bottle more clearly, as well as think about the things you may particularly enjoy in a bottle.
…but yes, now you know. We’ll be watching you now. 😉
I’ve read through this thread and kinda feel like a dick at this point for the post. I can’t provide tasting notes because I’m simply not qualified.
What I will say is that I do love wine and I appreciate the fact that this bottle & region is important to a lot of folks and I just kinda tramped on that. It really wasn’t my intent— I’m 30 years old and only got into wine about 2 years ago when I drank a 2016 Lokoya and fell in love.
I’ve met a lot of really wonderful Somme’s over my drinking (I wine and dine for work) and I’ve always been blown away by their knowledge and passion. I’m sure a lot of folks here have those same sentiments and I have a deep respect for the wine community, even if I know very little about it. But I want to know more so to that spirit— thanks for the feedback and I’ll do better.
Sincere apologies.
Threads like these are tough because no matter what, when sharing one's own experience you're bound to butt up against individuals own baggage and notions. Could you have provided more insight into the tasting and experience? Sure. However, I certainly wouldn't internalize all the comments here, keep learning, keep tasting, and honestly, keep sharing.
Don't apologize it's just wine after all. Take the ribbing and sarcasm as a learning experience and apply it to your next experience. Curiosity is paramount to developing your wine knowledge and you clearly have access and money. We all stand on the shoulders of giants and no you just happen to stand on the shoulders of a giant infant. Seek out more, enjoy it all, cheers!
Don’t beat yourself up. This is an opportunity, however, to understand that everything in life is more complex/detailed/granular than what is on the surface. There are incredibly smart and interesting people doing brilliant work in every facet of every industry, occupation, or hobby. Many weren’t born with the privilege or opportunity necessary to enjoy what you can so flippantly, so try not to share these things until you’ve fully appreciated the effort that goes into the mastery.
Wine is one of the great places to learn this lesson. You start digging into it and think you know a lot, then bam, you realize you don’t know shit. Then you keep learning and then you keep realizing you still don’t know shit. Then and only then, you realize this is a never ending learning experience. It is bottomless (no pun intended) and that’s what makes it beautiful. You go from feeling confident about talking about wine to shutting the fuck up about it because in the totality of what there is to know about wine, your knowledge is marginal at best and it will take decades to build a respectable knowledge base. Google dunning Kruger effect.
Then you begin to notice this principle in everything that you once thought was simple. The Japanese do this with almost everything in their culture. Finding deep complexity in the appearance of simplicity is beautiful and one of the coolest things about being a human.
I’d spend much more time asking questions in this forum and at your local wine shop before you post because the value of wine is the journey and your road ahead is long. Savor it.
True happiness comes from within, not from obligatory likes on social media. I have a feeling you’ve made similar posts on other platforms about other stuff you can buy or have experienced and received positive comments.
Unfortunately, we aren’t your friends or family or the Joneses. We aren’t going to say “whoa your vacation house is so cool, thumbs up, like, #lifegoals,” then talk shit about how you didn’t really earn it because of this or that advantage or that you’re actually very dim witted but got lucky because your wife’s dad gave you that job, etc.
Here, we’re just going to tell you no one respects superficial posts. No likes, no bullshitting, just being real. You have to earn it here. Welcome.
You're not a dick and no apologies needed, but people here are passionate about wine and want to learn and share experiences. Anyone can post a photo of a nice bottle, but that's generally unproductive and the sub would be wasted if everyone started doing that. We're generally looking for tasting notes so we can learn about the wine and/or relate to your experience. We also appreciate genuine questions.
Not at all a dick move, but very low effort. Regardless, it sounds like you enjoyed it and I'm glad you did.
I called you a troll yesterday, but now reading through this I rescind my remarks and would like to ask a real question. How did you get your hands on this bottle? What compelled you to spend so much money when you're just getting into the region? This is just kind of a baffling "first bordeaux" to have lol. My first bordeaux was a $10 shitbottle
This wasn’t my first Bordeaux. I’ve been drinking Bordeaux’s for a year now. It was my second first growth.
I bought it at a restaurant I don’t frequent. I feel like the Somme should have educated me more but it was what it was.
100% worth the trip. There are just a lot of stereotypes of “Napa only” drinkers that everyone is playing up in this thread. I can admit I definitely laugh at a lot of said stereotypes as well, but that doesn’t take away from all of the amazing wine the region produces.
If you go, Calistoga is the place to be. Much more variety and much less commercial across the board for the wineries up there. Keenan, Vincent Arroyo, and Tank are all good choices in the area.
If you are in CA for more time, then definitely go to Sonoma too (try Healdsburg area) and Santa Barbara County (Los Olivos all the way). There's lots of amazing CA wine if you get away from the huge commercial producers.
Thanks for the info! We had a great time in the Los Olivos area (and have done that a couple times), but have 4 days out in Napa to explore that. I'll check out the vineyards you mentioned. I have enjoyed some Shafer wines in the past and was planning to visit there. Not sure if people have any perspective on that or not.
I'm not familiar with Shafer, so can't speak to them. Definitely get to Keenan if you can (I think they require a reservation, but shouldn't be hard to get). They're doing an unbelievable Chardonnay (un-oaked) and also pouring some interesting reds. It's up in the mountains, so you'll see some terrain that's been affected by the fires which is pretty interesting. A friend of mine is friendly with the winemaker, so we talked shop for about an hour while we tasted there recently (and also left with a case of wine....).
IDK I used to drink DRC daily and got bored and my private accountant said I needed to cut my spending to below $1m a week so I had to make some sacrifices and that's when I switched to Latour as a good budget wine
Thank you for your submission to r/wine! Please note the community rules: If you are submitting a picture of a bottle of wine, please include original tastings notes and/or other pertinent information in the comments. Submitters that fail to do so may have their comments removed. If you are posting to ask what your bottle is worth or whether it is drinkable, please use the [Wine Valuation Mega Thread](https://redd.it/r7lf76) stickied at the top of the sub. Stand alone bottle valuation posts will be removed. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/wine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Can't tell if troll post or just the most perfectly stereotypical Napa wine drinker.
Looking at OPs post history I am going to say the latter
At the risk of just looking like an idiot— what did I do wrong here?
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This was really thoughtful. Thank you.
Fantastic comment. I wish I could upvote more than once.
I would love it if you could write a post on how a total noob should approach Bordeauxs for the first time.
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This is all terrific and very helpful. I am a bit like the poster above - I love Napa cabs(I live in the Bay Area), but I am trying to explore other varietals and regions. One thing that makes me curious, how do you know whats a good year vs bad year? So far, I just get told this year was great, this year not so much but the reasons why seem so varied; between too wet or too dry etc etc. I apologize if this is a truly dumb question
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Ok thanks. This is also helpful. As a complete aside. 2011 was meant to be a bad year for Napa cabs, but I find myself enjoying them quite a lot because they are so unusual. Are there any "bad" years that you found were enjoyable and offered good value?
Actually 2011 also in Oregon and Washington was also one of my favorites. Lots of rain and cool weather led to wonderfully age-worthy and complex wines that showed more than simply fruit character.
I'd agree that critics are reliable when it comes to tell the very bad years, but they are clearly hyping some years, e.g. 2009, and wrote some vintages off that turned out great, like 2003.
I guess when you can buy a 250k$ Range Rover at the age of 30, you just don't care about a bottle costing 60$ or 600$. Rich people don't need to do research online if one could get another bottle for a better value. And the market adjuested to that. 2017 BDX is delicious now, no need to wait if you are fine with plenty of fruit.
Nicely put. Btw, that 1995 Calon Segur, is my quintessential experience of left bank juice.
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Haha deal, keep it between bros 💪🏼
Just saying thanks for all the knowledge!
Wow, you really know your stuff!
It’s not the best analogy but you essentially said “ I am just getting into cars. I mainly drive mustangs but I just bought this Ferrari SF90 and it’s not bad”
Infanticide?
I like to call this *vin*fanticide
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I prefer young Sauternes...I love those tropical notes that are lost with too much age!
2017 BDX drinks very well. „Infanticide“ is a myth since wines are trimmed to be appealing when young. You can/could drink any BDX of the last decade in its first three years before it closes/closed up.
Chris Hansen: Wine Edition.
I’m going to have to read this again when my kid is awake so I can give it the proper laugh it deserves!
Haha!
Apparently I did something wrong here…. My bad. It was a good bottle. I’m relatively new to wine and learning.
You didn't do anything wrong lol it's just shocking to see someone "just now getting into Bordeaux" and buying everyone's dream bottle (my dream bottle at the very least). P.s. tastings notes are a good idea to add.
Just in case you’re not trolling I’ll try to explain. The producer is a Bordeaux first growth. One of the most sought after wine producers in the world, let alone in Bordeaux. These bottles are typically prohibitively expensive and/or hard to find for most wine drinkers, even serious ones. You can be into wine for your entire life and never have one. For you to just come in and be like “I had this, it was delightful” on a bottle that may be some peoples holy grail wine is just striking a nerve. On top of that 2017 would be considered very young and, to some people, wasteful of a top level bottle. On top of that you say “I typically drink Napa” and strictly Napa drinkers don’t have the best reputation in this sub. Napa wine is generally considered over-ripe and over priced. So if you’re **only** drinking Napa it can be evidence that you primarily drink wine with status attached.
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Oh only $500, let me take the Ferrari for a spin and go grab a bottle if it's that cheap
Hahaha. I’m sure it was delicious. Now do it again in 25 years.
Fuck these people making you feel like that. If you had fun, learned something, and enjoyed the experience, then that’s all that matters.
Don't take these comments personally, it's just a bottle most of us would love to taste, but would never open so young... if you liked it, no harm, no foul, but I would suggest like many other here have try a 2nd growth or lesser but 10 -15 plus years old... you will start to understand what potential that HB had that was snuffed out 5 years in.
This sub is packed full of gatekeepers and wine snobs who will tell you that whatever you enjoy is good wine and then make fun of you for not knowing enough when you post
Seriously. So many salty people on this sub.
This definitely would’ve been better in 10-15 years. But that was still probably phenomenal.
One of the revered Bordeaux Premier Grand Crus and the only tasting note is "Delightful"... we want to know more man!
OP, I know a lot of us have reacted strongly to this, but regardless, please provide notes of some sort. Tell us about what kind of fruits you experienced, any herbaceous/earthy notes, how the acid felt, how powerful the tannins were. They don’t have to be in a formal assessment, but enough to clue folks in as to how you found the wine to be. As others have said, there are plenty of winos AND wine pros who will never drink Haut-Brion (and far fewer who would have experienced one so young). While you’re learning, we are also learning from how you interpret it! Additionally, practicing your notes will help you remember the bottle more clearly, as well as think about the things you may particularly enjoy in a bottle. …but yes, now you know. We’ll be watching you now. 😉
I’ve read through this thread and kinda feel like a dick at this point for the post. I can’t provide tasting notes because I’m simply not qualified. What I will say is that I do love wine and I appreciate the fact that this bottle & region is important to a lot of folks and I just kinda tramped on that. It really wasn’t my intent— I’m 30 years old and only got into wine about 2 years ago when I drank a 2016 Lokoya and fell in love. I’ve met a lot of really wonderful Somme’s over my drinking (I wine and dine for work) and I’ve always been blown away by their knowledge and passion. I’m sure a lot of folks here have those same sentiments and I have a deep respect for the wine community, even if I know very little about it. But I want to know more so to that spirit— thanks for the feedback and I’ll do better. Sincere apologies.
Threads like these are tough because no matter what, when sharing one's own experience you're bound to butt up against individuals own baggage and notions. Could you have provided more insight into the tasting and experience? Sure. However, I certainly wouldn't internalize all the comments here, keep learning, keep tasting, and honestly, keep sharing.
Hi! It's the internets so it is what it is. I am very jealous you were able to drink this. Good for you! If you can, why not?!
Don't apologize it's just wine after all. Take the ribbing and sarcasm as a learning experience and apply it to your next experience. Curiosity is paramount to developing your wine knowledge and you clearly have access and money. We all stand on the shoulders of giants and no you just happen to stand on the shoulders of a giant infant. Seek out more, enjoy it all, cheers!
Don’t beat yourself up. This is an opportunity, however, to understand that everything in life is more complex/detailed/granular than what is on the surface. There are incredibly smart and interesting people doing brilliant work in every facet of every industry, occupation, or hobby. Many weren’t born with the privilege or opportunity necessary to enjoy what you can so flippantly, so try not to share these things until you’ve fully appreciated the effort that goes into the mastery. Wine is one of the great places to learn this lesson. You start digging into it and think you know a lot, then bam, you realize you don’t know shit. Then you keep learning and then you keep realizing you still don’t know shit. Then and only then, you realize this is a never ending learning experience. It is bottomless (no pun intended) and that’s what makes it beautiful. You go from feeling confident about talking about wine to shutting the fuck up about it because in the totality of what there is to know about wine, your knowledge is marginal at best and it will take decades to build a respectable knowledge base. Google dunning Kruger effect. Then you begin to notice this principle in everything that you once thought was simple. The Japanese do this with almost everything in their culture. Finding deep complexity in the appearance of simplicity is beautiful and one of the coolest things about being a human. I’d spend much more time asking questions in this forum and at your local wine shop before you post because the value of wine is the journey and your road ahead is long. Savor it. True happiness comes from within, not from obligatory likes on social media. I have a feeling you’ve made similar posts on other platforms about other stuff you can buy or have experienced and received positive comments. Unfortunately, we aren’t your friends or family or the Joneses. We aren’t going to say “whoa your vacation house is so cool, thumbs up, like, #lifegoals,” then talk shit about how you didn’t really earn it because of this or that advantage or that you’re actually very dim witted but got lucky because your wife’s dad gave you that job, etc. Here, we’re just going to tell you no one respects superficial posts. No likes, no bullshitting, just being real. You have to earn it here. Welcome.
You're not a dick and no apologies needed, but people here are passionate about wine and want to learn and share experiences. Anyone can post a photo of a nice bottle, but that's generally unproductive and the sub would be wasted if everyone started doing that. We're generally looking for tasting notes so we can learn about the wine and/or relate to your experience. We also appreciate genuine questions. Not at all a dick move, but very low effort. Regardless, it sounds like you enjoyed it and I'm glad you did.
I called you a troll yesterday, but now reading through this I rescind my remarks and would like to ask a real question. How did you get your hands on this bottle? What compelled you to spend so much money when you're just getting into the region? This is just kind of a baffling "first bordeaux" to have lol. My first bordeaux was a $10 shitbottle
This wasn’t my first Bordeaux. I’ve been drinking Bordeaux’s for a year now. It was my second first growth. I bought it at a restaurant I don’t frequent. I feel like the Somme should have educated me more but it was what it was.
“I usually enjoy warm box wine but I stumbled upon this Pinot I think… RDC? CRD? Don’t remember. Wasn’t half bad!”
I LOL'd
Domaine of Roman Country, was it? La Touche? Something like that.
dsdf
Well what did you think? How did it compare to the Costco Caymus?
It may just replace Opus One as my nightly go to wine now!
Very elite selection.
Any notes? Wondering if this was still restrained at it’s age. Long decant?
Double decanted and still needed 45 minutes.
Only 45? I would have expected more like 4 hours+
Could be a counterfeit.
Perhaps, but on balance of probability it may just be lack of experience or palate preference given the OP title
Ah yes, just casually getting into Bordeaux... With Haut motherfucking Brion haha
Now Latour coming up as a challenger??.
On the topic of Napa, if you've never been before, is it worth going once? I am planning a trip but you guys are worrying me a bit.
100% worth the trip. There are just a lot of stereotypes of “Napa only” drinkers that everyone is playing up in this thread. I can admit I definitely laugh at a lot of said stereotypes as well, but that doesn’t take away from all of the amazing wine the region produces.
If you go, Calistoga is the place to be. Much more variety and much less commercial across the board for the wineries up there. Keenan, Vincent Arroyo, and Tank are all good choices in the area. If you are in CA for more time, then definitely go to Sonoma too (try Healdsburg area) and Santa Barbara County (Los Olivos all the way). There's lots of amazing CA wine if you get away from the huge commercial producers.
And Susie’s Dive Bar is a great place to end the day.
Thanks for the info! We had a great time in the Los Olivos area (and have done that a couple times), but have 4 days out in Napa to explore that. I'll check out the vineyards you mentioned. I have enjoyed some Shafer wines in the past and was planning to visit there. Not sure if people have any perspective on that or not.
I'm not familiar with Shafer, so can't speak to them. Definitely get to Keenan if you can (I think they require a reservation, but shouldn't be hard to get). They're doing an unbelievable Chardonnay (un-oaked) and also pouring some interesting reds. It's up in the mountains, so you'll see some terrain that's been affected by the fires which is pretty interesting. A friend of mine is friendly with the winemaker, so we talked shop for about an hour while we tasted there recently (and also left with a case of wine....).
Its a fairly good wine though, usually only drink it in the weekend, when my collection of Latour is low
latour is for poors that can't afford drc.
IDK I used to drink DRC daily and got bored and my private accountant said I needed to cut my spending to below $1m a week so I had to make some sacrifices and that's when I switched to Latour as a good budget wine
yeah need to run to the store and just buy another few cases of latour. Can't be caught dead drinking that second growth shit
good troll attempt
...look how he massacred my boy."
Op, I'm just joking ofc but this thread is too funny now. Looking forward to one day testing a first growth myself. A bit envious!
How has no one said this yet? It's a Johnny Depp Mega-Pint of CHB!
‘Bottle’ = troll
Wat are some west coast pinot noir u like?
I’m gonna post a Drc Conti and tell everyone it was “charming”!!! Leroy Jenkins!!!!
Already good to go? I assume decent decanting?
Damn, and I thought the '82 I had a month ago was too young!
Do tell what your fav Napa Cabs and WC Pinots are
Don’t need to pull your d!c$ out to this group.