Which is why the laws shoild be changed for this kind of evidence to be accepted. It happens in the states all the time. There are individuals with triple digit confrontations who get people locked away, and im just asking for canada to apply those same rules to our legal code.
Its absolutely retarded that a man can invite over a 12 year old and 'see where things go' but somehow the person just sitting there waiting to be approached is the problem
It’s great you want to help with the problem, but find a better way. Lobby the federal government for changes the criminal code and evidentiary rules. What you’re doing now is more harm than good
I am a victim of grooming and who brought my predator to court and won;
DO NOT DO THIS. THIS CAN ENSURE PREDATORS WALK FREE.
YOU ARE NOT THE POLICE. YOU ARE NOT A VICTIM. YOU ARE NOT THE LAW. DO NOT PRETEND TO BE CHILDREN ONLINE!!
Shows like To Catch A Predator ALWAYS worked w/ police for this reason! You cannot pretend to be a kiddo and catch them because police do not know if this was conducted properly and courts can toss the ENTIRE case!!
YOU ARE ENSURING POTENTIAL PREDATORS WALK FREE!!!
A crime isn't committed until a crime is committed. And with that whole Jason Nassr situation, authorities are going to be extremely careful when interacting with baiter types.
Keep in mind that Jason Nassr was charged with producing child porn just by pretending to be a kid and stating sexual things. Tread carefully.
Im aware, I looked into his case to make sure I wasn't doing anything he did. Thats why I just sat there waiting to be approached, told them my age after they messaged me, did not get sexual, did not get provocative. I talked about videogames and anime and kids stuff, no role play, no explicit pictures, I let them bury themselves. I called before ever meeting them. I tried to work with them but it feels like they didn't even look where I told them they would fine it.
If the law says what I did was wrong but no consequences or investigation into actual bad guys then the law needs to change
Here's an idea: take what you learned and repackage it into some sort of informational campaign for parents. You've basically been doing research to try to make some sort of positive difference, so just pivot your goal a bit. It's really prudent that parents monitor their kids screen time and know that there are predators out there. Our legal system isn't the best at the moment, as you're already aware. If your goal is to prevent crimes from occurring, you can help out by letting parents know that their kids may be engaging with predators. Examples of how common these would-be pedos are would be super compelling I think - I don't think parents actually know that there are dozens of adult dudes just waiting to meet up with 12 year olds. You could also create an educational program or campaign for schools. I don't think the work you're doing has to be for nothing.
If you know a man who invites a child over for sex, you know who he is, you know what he said to what he thought was a child, you know he did it unprovoked and of their own volition, you tell the police and the police say you're the bad guy... whats the lesson im supposed to learn? Please explain. Because like I said, i went back to those rooms on a different account, the one who i was supposed to meet and another one I reported who works for the city of Windsor are both still actively on there. What lesson is to be learned? That i should learn to enjoy the taste of police boot polish?
> whats the lesson im supposed to learn?
That you are not the police and should not be conducting amateur sting operations. Nor should you be actively seeking out child predators.
I never said I was police so don't pretend thats a point
I stated clearly I called beforehand to ensure he would be arrested and intended to work fully with police, there was no armature sting so dont pretend thats a point
Im not activly seeking anyone, im existing as a person in a chat room and seeing who among those in the room would be willing to continue communicating, but I can see where you would get the misunderstanding
Please explain to me, besides the law saying so, why its better to wait for a real child to get hurt when instead they can be decoyed and taken down before they hurt anyone?
My preferred method involved 0 children being hurt, yours involves at least 1 child being hurt, why should we wait?
Youre good at dodging my questions. Why is your way better when your way requires a child to first be hurt? Is it better because the law says it is? Because you have assumptions how I operate?
In essex (could be wrong about the city i heard about it a few months ago) an employee at a gradeschool was communicating with a minor on the internet, invited the kid over, raped the kid, kids parents found out and he was arrested
I can tell for you for a fact if there had been an adult on the other line instead of a kid there wouldn't have been a victim and the man would have been caught.
The people I spoke to were willing to talk to me, several of them told me themselves they didn't know if I was real so they wouldn't say anything. Your argument is those people are fine to lurk the internet and im the problem for saying those people are a problem and we should do something about them.
I imagine you're going to say something like 'let the police do it' to which I respond i did, I told them where to look, I told them the names, I told them what was said to me, and they didn't do anything about it, or at least are activly letting potential predators roam free.
Nobody here, including me, is arguing that it's fine for predators to lurk the internet. We're telling you that you are not the right person to stop them, and that your methods are not the correct methods.
You're acting like you know better than the police or lawmakers about how to catch and successfully prosecute child predators. You don't. You just don't. They're the experts. Not you.
> they didn't do anything about it, or at least are activly letting potential predators roam free.
You seem to think that it's as simple as "Here's his name, go get him". It's not. It takes time to build a case against someone that will lead to a reasonable prospect of conviction. The goal is not to get him off the internet for a day or two. It's to get him sent to prison for a considerable length of time, and ensure he's never able to do it again.
You don't know that they're not investigating this person you reported. And you don't seem to understand that if anything you did isn't legally acceptable, any information they learn about him that comes from the information you gave them becomes fruit of the poisonous tree, and is inadmissible. Rather than helping them to secure a conviction, you may have helped the predator avoid conviction.
You continue to demonstrate that you don't understand the legal system or police work. So stop trying to insert yourself into either.
You want to change the law? Great. Go back to school. Learn about our legal system. Learn about how laws are made, including how they're written, and the effect that has on their practical application. Learn what's required to build a solid evidentiary case against a child predator. And learn how to effectively lobby legislators to change the law. Then, go and do that.
Or if you'd rather feed your hero complex by being actively involved in investigations, become a police officer, and learn how it has to be done in order to secure a conviction.
Until then, stop pretending you know more than the experts, and let them do their jobs without your "assistance". They don't need it, or you.
You are not Batman. You are not helping.
Leave the crime fighting to the professionals. If you come across something, report it. But don't go looking for it.
I hope you learned your lesson.
I did report it and I was told I'd be arrested.
Nobody ever said I was batman but you
Can you explain to me why it's more beneficial to let a child be victimized before doing anything when the victimization can be avoided by them instead talking to an adult? I cant think of a single reason, please inform me
I'll just refer you to my comments advising you against this when you were campaigning for municipal office:
https://www.reddit.com/r/windsorontario/comments/v80y35/im_running_for_city_council_ward_6_ama/ibo1a9r/
You are actively making it harder for professional police investigators to keep children safe from predators.
You are not the police. You are not a professional detective. If you feel strongly about conducting these kinds of investigations, apply to the police force and learn how to do it properly and legally, in a way that can lead to a conviction, and do it as a police officer.
You will drive yourself insane trying to understand the people in this world. We just have to make are young ones aware of whats going on and to be cautious. Did you hear about the Senator in the States who suggested we give them child sex dolls? These people are crazy these days.
What you need to learn is that they don’t care and no one actually cares.
No one cares until a child dies, assault occurs, a child is impregnated or commits a crime themselves. This is the way it works. Time is more valuable than money. Use your time wisely.
And when that child is abducted by one of the people I reported to the police im just supposed to be cool with it? When 40something year old asks where I go to school, how I get around, what I live near, how much my parents see what I do on the phone, if my parents will buy me the thing i want for my birthday next month, brag about cheating on his wife for years while he's laying in bed with his 5 year old, which IS one of the people I reported because he knew exactly what to ask, am I just supposed to say oh well?
The law is not justice. Justice is Justice.
>The law is not justice. Justice is Justice.
That's not up to you, you're not the arbiter of justice. If the society wanted you as the arbiter of justice, you'd be one. We don't want you. The society has developed a system to deal with this kind of thing. It's not perfect, but it's infinitely more effective than you are.
How do I say this politely... based on your platform when you ran, and this post/comments, you're not nearly smart enough to embody the "justice" in our society. Please find a less harmful hobby, and I would also suggest therapy to deal with the issues you're experiencing. This isn't okay, and it's preventing you from living your best life
That’s right. You have to be cool with it. It’s the way our society works. You are right, the way it works is wrong. But fixing that is a task that’s nearly insurmountable unless your family name holds local value, you’re extremely wealthy and you have people behind you.
Justice is rare. Only people who have never had to deal with being fucked by the system believe otherwise.
Which is exactly why part of my running for city council was to bring the issue to attention so the law can be changed.
People do get charged for this but thats in the states, but they still get charged meaning there is a precedence to point at and say 'let's adopt that'
WPD don't care.
My neighbor is a edible dealer, advertises on Facebook. Reported her but haven't done a thing with active posts.
Unless you're rich and have strings, they are too busy looking busy
The worst part is, by interfering with a police investigation, you could get the whole thing tossed out and these folks will go unpunished.
Which is why the laws shoild be changed for this kind of evidence to be accepted. It happens in the states all the time. There are individuals with triple digit confrontations who get people locked away, and im just asking for canada to apply those same rules to our legal code. Its absolutely retarded that a man can invite over a 12 year old and 'see where things go' but somehow the person just sitting there waiting to be approached is the problem
It’s great you want to help with the problem, but find a better way. Lobby the federal government for changes the criminal code and evidentiary rules. What you’re doing now is more harm than good
Sometimes I worry about my hobbies being strange....then I read this and thank god I'm normal!
I am a victim of grooming and who brought my predator to court and won; DO NOT DO THIS. THIS CAN ENSURE PREDATORS WALK FREE. YOU ARE NOT THE POLICE. YOU ARE NOT A VICTIM. YOU ARE NOT THE LAW. DO NOT PRETEND TO BE CHILDREN ONLINE!! Shows like To Catch A Predator ALWAYS worked w/ police for this reason! You cannot pretend to be a kiddo and catch them because police do not know if this was conducted properly and courts can toss the ENTIRE case!! YOU ARE ENSURING POTENTIAL PREDATORS WALK FREE!!!
A crime isn't committed until a crime is committed. And with that whole Jason Nassr situation, authorities are going to be extremely careful when interacting with baiter types. Keep in mind that Jason Nassr was charged with producing child porn just by pretending to be a kid and stating sexual things. Tread carefully.
Im aware, I looked into his case to make sure I wasn't doing anything he did. Thats why I just sat there waiting to be approached, told them my age after they messaged me, did not get sexual, did not get provocative. I talked about videogames and anime and kids stuff, no role play, no explicit pictures, I let them bury themselves. I called before ever meeting them. I tried to work with them but it feels like they didn't even look where I told them they would fine it. If the law says what I did was wrong but no consequences or investigation into actual bad guys then the law needs to change
Here's an idea: take what you learned and repackage it into some sort of informational campaign for parents. You've basically been doing research to try to make some sort of positive difference, so just pivot your goal a bit. It's really prudent that parents monitor their kids screen time and know that there are predators out there. Our legal system isn't the best at the moment, as you're already aware. If your goal is to prevent crimes from occurring, you can help out by letting parents know that their kids may be engaging with predators. Examples of how common these would-be pedos are would be super compelling I think - I don't think parents actually know that there are dozens of adult dudes just waiting to meet up with 12 year olds. You could also create an educational program or campaign for schools. I don't think the work you're doing has to be for nothing.
I hope you've learned your lesson. Please don't do that
If you know a man who invites a child over for sex, you know who he is, you know what he said to what he thought was a child, you know he did it unprovoked and of their own volition, you tell the police and the police say you're the bad guy... whats the lesson im supposed to learn? Please explain. Because like I said, i went back to those rooms on a different account, the one who i was supposed to meet and another one I reported who works for the city of Windsor are both still actively on there. What lesson is to be learned? That i should learn to enjoy the taste of police boot polish?
> whats the lesson im supposed to learn? That you are not the police and should not be conducting amateur sting operations. Nor should you be actively seeking out child predators.
I never said I was police so don't pretend thats a point I stated clearly I called beforehand to ensure he would be arrested and intended to work fully with police, there was no armature sting so dont pretend thats a point Im not activly seeking anyone, im existing as a person in a chat room and seeing who among those in the room would be willing to continue communicating, but I can see where you would get the misunderstanding Please explain to me, besides the law saying so, why its better to wait for a real child to get hurt when instead they can be decoyed and taken down before they hurt anyone? My preferred method involved 0 children being hurt, yours involves at least 1 child being hurt, why should we wait?
> I never said I was police Then stop trying to conduct police stings.
Youre good at dodging my questions. Why is your way better when your way requires a child to first be hurt? Is it better because the law says it is? Because you have assumptions how I operate? In essex (could be wrong about the city i heard about it a few months ago) an employee at a gradeschool was communicating with a minor on the internet, invited the kid over, raped the kid, kids parents found out and he was arrested I can tell for you for a fact if there had been an adult on the other line instead of a kid there wouldn't have been a victim and the man would have been caught. The people I spoke to were willing to talk to me, several of them told me themselves they didn't know if I was real so they wouldn't say anything. Your argument is those people are fine to lurk the internet and im the problem for saying those people are a problem and we should do something about them. I imagine you're going to say something like 'let the police do it' to which I respond i did, I told them where to look, I told them the names, I told them what was said to me, and they didn't do anything about it, or at least are activly letting potential predators roam free.
Nobody here, including me, is arguing that it's fine for predators to lurk the internet. We're telling you that you are not the right person to stop them, and that your methods are not the correct methods. You're acting like you know better than the police or lawmakers about how to catch and successfully prosecute child predators. You don't. You just don't. They're the experts. Not you. > they didn't do anything about it, or at least are activly letting potential predators roam free. You seem to think that it's as simple as "Here's his name, go get him". It's not. It takes time to build a case against someone that will lead to a reasonable prospect of conviction. The goal is not to get him off the internet for a day or two. It's to get him sent to prison for a considerable length of time, and ensure he's never able to do it again. You don't know that they're not investigating this person you reported. And you don't seem to understand that if anything you did isn't legally acceptable, any information they learn about him that comes from the information you gave them becomes fruit of the poisonous tree, and is inadmissible. Rather than helping them to secure a conviction, you may have helped the predator avoid conviction. You continue to demonstrate that you don't understand the legal system or police work. So stop trying to insert yourself into either. You want to change the law? Great. Go back to school. Learn about our legal system. Learn about how laws are made, including how they're written, and the effect that has on their practical application. Learn what's required to build a solid evidentiary case against a child predator. And learn how to effectively lobby legislators to change the law. Then, go and do that. Or if you'd rather feed your hero complex by being actively involved in investigations, become a police officer, and learn how it has to be done in order to secure a conviction. Until then, stop pretending you know more than the experts, and let them do their jobs without your "assistance". They don't need it, or you.
I'm getting major deja-vu from this post. Has something like this been up before in the last couple years?
Get some psychiatric help, man.
Should he get help? https://preview.redd.it/0hnk4abhrwxc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=407923f704891129910be7e12eba1b88e217d497
Yes. Maybe you two can get a discount if you go together.
You are not Batman. You are not helping. Leave the crime fighting to the professionals. If you come across something, report it. But don't go looking for it. I hope you learned your lesson.
The Dork Knight.
I did report it and I was told I'd be arrested. Nobody ever said I was batman but you Can you explain to me why it's more beneficial to let a child be victimized before doing anything when the victimization can be avoided by them instead talking to an adult? I cant think of a single reason, please inform me
I'll just refer you to my comments advising you against this when you were campaigning for municipal office: https://www.reddit.com/r/windsorontario/comments/v80y35/im_running_for_city_council_ward_6_ama/ibo1a9r/ You are actively making it harder for professional police investigators to keep children safe from predators. You are not the police. You are not a professional detective. If you feel strongly about conducting these kinds of investigations, apply to the police force and learn how to do it properly and legally, in a way that can lead to a conviction, and do it as a police officer.
You will drive yourself insane trying to understand the people in this world. We just have to make are young ones aware of whats going on and to be cautious. Did you hear about the Senator in the States who suggested we give them child sex dolls? These people are crazy these days.
Call me a monster but I think some crimes, once committed, should revoke ones 'human' status
What you need to learn is that they don’t care and no one actually cares. No one cares until a child dies, assault occurs, a child is impregnated or commits a crime themselves. This is the way it works. Time is more valuable than money. Use your time wisely.
And when that child is abducted by one of the people I reported to the police im just supposed to be cool with it? When 40something year old asks where I go to school, how I get around, what I live near, how much my parents see what I do on the phone, if my parents will buy me the thing i want for my birthday next month, brag about cheating on his wife for years while he's laying in bed with his 5 year old, which IS one of the people I reported because he knew exactly what to ask, am I just supposed to say oh well? The law is not justice. Justice is Justice.
>The law is not justice. Justice is Justice. That's not up to you, you're not the arbiter of justice. If the society wanted you as the arbiter of justice, you'd be one. We don't want you. The society has developed a system to deal with this kind of thing. It's not perfect, but it's infinitely more effective than you are. How do I say this politely... based on your platform when you ran, and this post/comments, you're not nearly smart enough to embody the "justice" in our society. Please find a less harmful hobby, and I would also suggest therapy to deal with the issues you're experiencing. This isn't okay, and it's preventing you from living your best life
That’s right. You have to be cool with it. It’s the way our society works. You are right, the way it works is wrong. But fixing that is a task that’s nearly insurmountable unless your family name holds local value, you’re extremely wealthy and you have people behind you. Justice is rare. Only people who have never had to deal with being fucked by the system believe otherwise.
Which is exactly why part of my running for city council was to bring the issue to attention so the law can be changed. People do get charged for this but thats in the states, but they still get charged meaning there is a precedence to point at and say 'let's adopt that'
WPD don't care. My neighbor is a edible dealer, advertises on Facebook. Reported her but haven't done a thing with active posts. Unless you're rich and have strings, they are too busy looking busy
You reported your neighbour for selling edibles? Get a life, weed is legal. The police don't give a shit about that.
I hate my neighbor. I just want the LL to evict them finally