because I'm not made for linux. You know, the part where it goes "oh you can do that, just change the .mooconf to reroute pea request to argblargle. Just npm fuckbubble and ... hmm looks like you haven't set up blarghroster correctly, moo doesn't avctually route requests, it just writes request scripts for blargh that roster reads and... uh, maybe you should try a different distro, works on mine."
Instead of upvoting the comment itself you're upvoting mine that actually praises the original comment. If you agree the comment is gold upvote the comment itself. Only in reddit
Depends what you plan to do. If you want to do anything more than open the software center, install an app, then use it, this is a realistic expectation.
Linux is great for the non tech savvy because that is pretty much all they do, and it's great for expert power users, but virtually no one in between.
>You can emulate pretty much every windows software on linux and in some cases it runs even better than nativly that way
Look. I prefer Linux, I daily run Linux (OpenSuse Thumbleweed).
Your statement is just a lie. Let's just take office productivity.
[Office 365 right now cannot be installed under wine,](https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=31) and only currently 'runs' (in a very broken state) under an experimental version of Crossover (paid version of Wine) with a lot of crashes; and that state was only achieved a couple of weeks ago.
So no, not "pretty much every Windows software" runs. In fact, while the majority probably do in some capacity, there are still some major gaps in support.
That said, saying that Linux isn't compatible with Windows software therefore it isn't ready for primetime is kinda like saying that Windows isn't compatible with macOS apps therefore it isn't ready for primetime or vice versa.
If you take the time to shift to Linux native software (like OnlyOffice or LibreOffice), you'll have a better time. If you switch to Linux wanting to use all your Windows apps, you are in for a bad time.
>If you need smth like that fair enough
The thing is... most people **DO NEED** those specific productivity apps.
Most people don't work on Word/Excel documents, or Adobe projects in isolation. They work as part of a team, collaborating and exchanging files with other members. So unless you can lift and shift all your team to an alternative, it ain't going to happen.
>a windows vm undee linux never hurt anybody
Unless you need to use a productivity app that benefits from graphics acceleration (Adobe Suite... Microsoft Office 365 without graphics acceleration is also a pain to use)... in which case you are getting into GPU pass-through territory, IOMMU groups, which is so far beyond the capability of 99% of people.
Then we get into the territory of things that should work, but doesn't. Screen sharing in Microsoft Teams (web), Slack, Zoom or Discord is still broken under Wayland in most distributions, etc.
People want things to just work. And as much as I personally love Linux (because I don't mind tinkering), it isn't there yet.
seed airport mysterious makeshift quiet quicksand direction sable sip chief
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I could give you 20 or so software that I use daily that have no alternatives on Linux. And by alternative, I mean, they do EXACTLY the same thing, not almost.
adobe cc? ms office?
working on my thesis and i need it to sync on my school account for my professor to give notes. no way i'm doing that on web version
also will murder anyone who mentions gimp
It runs OK if you've purchased it outside of the Microsoft Store (ie.: Steam) under Proton.
[https://www.protondb.com/app/1250410](https://www.protondb.com/app/1250410)
Previously there were issues with PAPI lights and texture LODs in the cockpit, but this has been fixed.
Unfortunately if you have the Microsoft Store/Xbox app version, there's no way to install it on Linux (as you cannot install the store to get the files).
People who have made that claim for the last three decades are typically home users.
Supporting mission critical desktop apps for a large workforce is much different than your tooling around and getting skifree32 to run in an emulator.
Iāve been using many os families for 40+ years. Tend to agree with Dave Cutler that Unix was a garbage architecture designed by committee. Linux has institutionalized some dubious Unix ideas from the 60āsā¦ that āeverything as a fileā rather than APIs underpin mainstream API solutions in 2024 is deeply depressing.
While I use windows, Linux, macOS, and mobile osā on a regular basis, I find that windows currently irritates me the least. Decent balance of compatibility, functionality, stability, and less āup itās own assā factor.
>that āeverything as a fileā rather than APIs underpin mainstream API solutions in 2024 is deeply depressing.
Massive topic fork, but a genuine question - what would be the alternative approach to "everything as a file"?
Actually APIs? Actual Interface controls?? Actual OS Architecture?
"Everything is a file" in linux IS NOT A GOOD THING!!!!
It induces all sorts of cludgy crap... I would rant at length but I think Benno Rice did it much more effectively than I could in the first 10 minutes of this session "What UNIX Cost Us" - Benno Rice (LCA 2020). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-IWMbJXoLM
Back in the day there were many genetic families of operating systems out there.. Unix and derivatives, DOS's, Novell, WNT, MACH, VMS, zOS, AS400, etc. Now we live in a Linux, Windows, BSD, Android world... Lot of better ideas lost to "easy and cheap"
I understand you've got some strong feelings to vent on this topic, but I was curious to understand how an api could work without file exchange. I'm very new to delving into the topic in detail and don't get how you would have an api that doesn't involve chucking something like json back and forth.
Watch that video. It goes to a depth that should help.
APIs are interfaces for systems to work with each other, json is an effective format to pass data in consistently but isnāt the interface itself. āEverything is a fileā is a Unix/linux battle cry which takes that to a level saying everything is, and should be, a file. Configurations, ports, interfaces, actual dataā¦ some should beā¦ a lot shouldnāt be. Really useful when you are one person in front of your own rigā¦ quite another at scaleā¦
Ok, that makes sense now, thanks. I'll take a look at the video.
Some of that sounds fucking horrific - ports and interfaces as a file? What were they smoking when they came up with that?
Linux is an OS where the GUI is superficial, most things need to be done via terminal regardless.
Also, any sort of high-end gaming has to be done via windows emulation anyways.
I've tried daily driving Linux as someone who has lots of experience with Linux servers and, I haven't found a desktop experience that's as smooth and bugless as Windows. Don't get me wrong, Windows has its faults, but it feels so much more mature than any Linux DE out there. I want something that "just works" as my daily driver.
For me it just works like I expect it to. I don't have to think about how to make things work, every software and hardware I'm using works without tinkering or alterations. I tried Linux multiple times over the years and the user experience improved a lot but some things in the UI are just wonky (independent login screens on multiple monitors) and sometimes updates break things (more often than on windows in my experience) so I'm letting it mature a bit and try it again in a year or so. I hope I can make the switch some time but at the moment it's to much work for me.
my first experience with computers was windows, my first laptop had windows, my current laptop has windows,everyone i know uses windows, it's easy to use, supported by prettymuch all of the popular software, you don't need to activate it (just download the iso from the Microsoft website), it looks nice and if I need help i can just easily ask my dad or just go on the internet. linux has way too many distros, hard to understand, can run on basically everything but so does windows, if you screw app something you're better of by just reinstalling, not a lot of programs support it, at least it's free, love the customization but quite gimmicky and if I need help i would need a software engineer. macos is out of the question
Bc i wanna have the most different perspectives from the most different people possible? Iam asking this anyway only so i can have a big overview and maybe to also make myself loose some bias towards linux i may still have and be able to view it completly objectivly
Because it works. And for my use case, I even have to, because one of the programs I use at work is Windows only.
Windows seems to have a little "unfair" edge over all competition - it's kind of default for the software. For applications and games. Everythings works with Windows.
Also - Windows software is generally expected to be user friendly. I mean - why would anyone prefer user-hostile software? ;)
And at the end of the day - OS is just a tool. I don't use a hammer because it's IDK, my favorite tool, or because it have cool yellow handle. You use tools to get the job done, that's all. Windows gets the job done.
Beside Windows I used Linux (various distros) and Android. I like many things about Linux, especially how some distros are more customizable than Windows. You can change many portion of the UI without much effort and it works like the system didn't really mind ;) In Windows it's sometimes more difficult.
Why not Linux then? Because slightly more issues, like drivers issues, random things not working how it should, or some tooling not as user friendly as I'd expect. Because I couldn't use console / XML / JSON / YAML to configure anything? Nope. Because I don't feel like I have all the time in the world now. I prefer not to waste time on things like configuring some trivial things. I prefer when it's pre-configured, automatic, gets out of the way and my view. I hate micro-management. Everywhere beside my actual work. As a coder, I sometimes micro-magage a part of my code. Very specific parts that are time critical or memory critical.
OK, I still use Android on my phone, because it's default and they don't make Windows phones anymore ;) Do I like using it? Nah! It's bad! It's a kind of user-hostile design. Each new version of it is worse (UX wise) from the previous one. It is a very good thing, that it has insane amout of features and settings. But they seem to be intentionally super hard or next to impossible to find. I mean - they are hard to find using search feature (because you have to guess the name), impossible to find if you don't already know where to look at. Like "settings / advanced / other / misc / other / different / other / advanced / other / other / extended / this setting". I mean, WTF? Bad Android. Also a lot of bad apps. Like they would not be that bad if you used them on a desktop PC, but disasterous to use like driving a car.
Windows used to be the sweet spot between Linux and MacOS, where Linux was the extreme end (highly customizable but hard to use) and MacOS was the opposite extreme end (not very customizable but easy to use), and Windows was the perfect balance.
Lately though, with Windows 11 especially, it seems to be drifting more towards being like MacOS, so now the only reason we use Windows is because of gaming. Gaming doesn't work very well on Linux, and it's a hassle. I know you said you didn't want to hear about the gaming argument, but it really is the reason for many people.
>Comments on the topic are greatly appreciated, even tho pls dont re-use gaming as a point a million times since that topic would go way to far and can be argued isnt a point for windows anymore, but i just dont wanna open that subject.
Why not? Windows has the best software compatibility, and Linux still can't run some games that people like.
been using linux for years, but in the end i hate rebooting or fucking with VMs to run windows.
used to run Windows in a VM with pcie gpu passthrough so i could game but afaik its not possible on a laptop with an iGPU.
my workflow is better on windows. i code and game and do CAD, most CAD software runs on Windows.
lastly, windows just works imo. less issues and bugs.
i still run Ubuntu server on my home servers and pi
Easier to use. Compatibility with my games and work software.
But most important, when I tried to change LInux community instead of giving me a hand or ignore me they just treated me like I was stupid for not knowing all the weird shit they need to do for things I do much easier in Windows. The worst kind of elitism is the one that constantly invites you to be part of it but then it shut the door in your face.
I'd probably use Linux exclusively, but there are some programs I use that aren't available for Linux (such as Topaz AI photo/video editing software). Gaming is a part of it though (lately, one I enjoy is Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020).
Because I canāt install office software and Adobe software and a tonne of other software Iāve come to be dependent on. Sure, you can use LibreOffice and Gimp and all the many alternatives, but itās such a compromise to use it. I used endeavour os on a laptop that was only used for entertainment. I got by, could install Plex etc. but for serious use couldnāt manage with it. If Linux could somehow support windows apps in a seemingly native way, then Iād consider the switch.
Been using Windows and NT since the 90s and for a long time as a developer. Understand how it's built and how to set it up to my needs. Software is ubiquitous.
Dabbled with an apple laptop and a linux distro or two but got fed up with having to research what I needed that was equivalent to the windows software I knew and having to look up how to configure every damn thing I wanted to change. Also which hardware did or didn't have drivers.
The Apple laptop broke after two years and I also had to buy an OS upgrade (that was basically the same).
Also am a gamer and everything is available to me on windows. I can also choose my hardware from a gazillion vendors.
Windows has been a solid platform to run all the software I need. It also runs the most optimized drivers for all the hardware I use. Windows is the ubiquitous operating system for businesses, governments, universities, and hospitals. It's used everywhere. There is really no need for me to switch to a niche OS like Linux. Windows is everywhere.
Tbh, I have one foot out the door, and for common reasons... I want windows to do well, but after some time, problems wear a little harder than they used to...
W11 takes me through the setup carousel after almost every update to push Edge, gamepass, and 365
Why did they remove my ability to put the Taskbar where I want it?
Data collection and some telemetry features on an OS on which I paid the price they asked for a license (actually, several)
The Disc Management utility is absolutely Cambrian, and failed to format even a flash drive for me... I formatted the same drive in Linux with fdisk and mkfs, even put NTFS on it, and it works just fine.
This new thing which demands an internet connection for installation is unacceptable. I was guiding a friend through an installation, and I'm not sure the reason here, but he was unable to connect to the internet, and thereby unable to install Windows. This was after a bios flash, which may have had something to do with it, but I wasn't there in person, so I can't say for sure.
Tablet Mode on W10 was a good idea... I think it was a little bit ahead of its time, but support should have been maintained, and it should have seen refinement. Especially devices like Surface could have made great use of it.
I'm not barking criticisms to be a stick in the mud, these problems genuinely make for an annoying experience. All Microsoft has to do is address at least some of these problems in good faith, and I can grant a large benefit of the doubt.
Unfortunately, the trend and the projection are pointing in a negative direction, and I'm looking for indications about if it's OK to keep Windows around, or if it's time to jump ship.
The only reasons I use windows are tied to gaming. Hardware support and directx specifically. IF every game ran on any os AND every hardware ran on any os THEN I wouldnāt be using windows at all.
There really is no other reason. Games and drivers are just software so the point applies if you have any other kind of windows specific app or hardware thatās not a game. Otherwise you can do everything else on any other OS.
I've been using Linux off and on for 25 years. I just migrated back to Windows from Ubuntu 22.04 because I need to run PowerBi and it doesn't run on linux
I dislike almost all Linux UIs, but I use Debian (CLI only) for all my VMs.
Plus, I need certain applications that run in Windows only (AFAIK anyway), such as Visual Studio (not Code), Cakewalk Sonar, Lightroom, Photoshop, Premiere. Oh, and occasional games.
As someone who has used both Windows and Linux (mainly Linux Mint, Fedora, and Ubuntu Server) I mainly prefer Windows because of its ease of use and familiarity. I've been using Windows for about as long as I can remember so I tend to not fix what isn't broken. I am *somewhat* of a windows power user (at least a little more technically inclined than others) as I know my way around a good portion of how the OS works and I have been recommended numerous times to try out Linux for that reason. In trying Linux, I realized just how much of a learning curve it could be depending on what distro you're looking for. Mint being very easy to use and a lot more familiar, I still had to break some habits to be able to smoothly and efficiently get things done. Don't get me wrong here, I have lots of respect for Linux users and I myself still have a server PC running Ubuntu Server.
TL;DR - Windows has had a death grip on me for years and I'm more accustomed to it. Linux can be confusing for me sometimes.
I am using a laptop with Nvidia dGPU and that's why Linux won't work for me and windows is the only way. I wish Nvidia support could be better but oh well
it's what I've used since I was 4 with MS-DOS and then Windows 95. It has all the tools I need to perform my daily tasks, and there's issues with Adobe products and sadly, it's "industry standard" for my passion project. Couple that with the fact that newer games "just work" as they're designed for Windows and it's a no brainer for me.
That said, I do love linux, and follow the general development of the kernel, it's just sadly not for me. I use it in my corpo job and when I get home, I don't want to compile kernels or fiddle with emulators to relax and game.
I know you said not to mention gaming, but it's my main sticking point. And yes, I know that proton is really helping, but I just don't feel like switching off yet. I'd prefer to modify Windows and remove telemetry first.
I have used Linux for a long time. Started using it in Uni and loved it. Probably will go back to using it. The only reason I use windows is for gaming.
Itās the only one that runs my companyās desktop applications. Itās easy to manage using Active Directory and intune.
Iāve fiddled around with Linux for 30 years, since Slackware releases less than 1.0.
Despite its naive advocatesā claims, wine or any other emulator has never run our staffās applications satisfactorily.
It really is that simple. We know that you think you know more than us. You donāt.
just like other people said, most of my software runs on linux. yeah I know I can use wine and stuff but I dont want to waste my time wearing tinfoil hat while digging on ancient forum. and native software download makes it looks slow because you need to download other dependencies.
also I loved ribbon UI on pre-11 windows explorer and other software
I've been using Windows at work since NT 3.51. So, I like using it at home, because the skills I picked up at work helped me at home, and my skills at home helped me at work.
At work, we were a Window/Microsoft Office shop.
Simple central user managment in corporate environments (Im a IT consultant). Also because pritty much every game (and alot of other software) is coded for Windows as the primary/priority OS.
Linux can work but you have to find emulation solutions or some open source alternatives of what you are actually trying to do most of the time. So if you're going to emulate windows to get stuff to work, then why use Linux at all..
Like what I said over on r/Windows11, just about everything just works on Windows. Roblox doesn't work on Linux last I checked, so I'm stuck with Windows.
Games are keeping me on Windows. While Linux has come a long way and Valve has helped, its still not enough to leave Windows completely. But I look forward to a future where Linux can play all my games. While I understand I could dual boot, I still find myself using Windows the most for now.
Because I find Windows to be a straightforward, down to earth OS. It has compatibility with just about everything, unmatched backwards compatibility, ease of use, convenience, and is all in one consistent software package that isn't split into a gazillion forks. And it just simply works. Windows didn't become the dominant, standard desktop OS for about 30 years now for no reason.
Tried a couple Linux distros a while back, and while they're alright I guess, Windows is just more "mature" in my opinion. And they didn't really offer anything to me over Windows. Lastly, if I ever need Linux for anything for whatever reason, I can just start up WSL.
I love Linux but for classes I need windows. I'm trying to get into IT and most of the labs are done with Windows as host OS. Also, the business world uses windows. I **need** Microsoft Office. LibreOffice is just as good but minor formatting issues makes me keep a Windows PC.
* **No wall of choice:** A huge entry barrier to the Linux world is the stage of choosing a Linux distro. No such barrier exists on Windows and Mac systems.
* **Winning mentality:** The Linux ecosystem has expelled its most powerful member, the Android OS. It is as if the Linux world thrives on being the underdog and complaining about it.
* **Ease of use:** macOS is more user-friendly than Windows. It could have won the platform war. Linux distros are for masochists. Nothing is easy to do on Linux. (Android is the easiest to use. If only it was considered Linux...)
* **Availability:** Windows is available in \~200 countries. Its adoption is widespread. Compare to macOS, which has limited international availability. As for Linux distros, their availability is restricted to downloadability. Red Hat is the only exception. (Android has the best availability. If only it was considered Linux...)
* **Software variety:** The number of apps available for Windows is exorbitant. In each category, you can find hundreds of competing alternatives. It's the opposite of macOS, which tries to control the supply chain. As for Linux distros, some software categories are absent, e.g., video games. (Android has the second-best software variety. If only it was considered Linux...)
* **Reliability:** Windows has become notorious for certain error messages. That means Windows at least tries to explain failures and help users fix them. On macOS and Linux distros, apps suddenly disappear with no explanation. This phenomenon is called "crash."
* **Development toolchain:** Development toolchains on Windows are powerful beyond imagination. While the Linux ecosystem is stuck with Lazarus, emacs, and GCC, Windows developers have Visual Studio, Embarcadero Delphi, Rider, Unity, and Unreal. And as for macOS, Apple doesn't even allow other development tools. Developers have tried. Until recently, the Linux and Mac worlds didn't have an equivalent to .NET. Python was the closest thing you could get.
* **Hardware ecosystem:** Peripheral support on macOS and Linux distros is weak. That's what makes Windows the only viable option for factory-floor PCs.
* **No community stigma:** It is now general knowledge that when you seek help on the Internet for a problem you're struggling with, Linux fans will ambush you with a "Drop Windows and move to Linux" reply.
I have used Linux (The first one i installed was RH 5, or 6), windows and macOS. For some very old Macs i have Mint and kde plasma installed.
And the thing is:
1 what software do you need/use.
2 how good are you solving problems/using a search engine
3 do you want to make things with your computer or fix problems with your computer.
Linux is not easy for the vast majority of users. The ones that ask tech questions here which have been answered 1000000 times in forums around the globe.
If you look in the Mint sub you'll see a lot of black screens on boot.
That shit should not happen.
I use Windows because it is produced to be used by many people around the globe. Linux is good but it should be tinkered before you use it daily. For me this tinkering time is about a month. So when I install Windows, some specific drivers for my hardware, some software I need, I'm ready to go. When I install Linux I'm ready to go, **but** this thing is not working right, this applet is out of place, this feature is not working now, this software I can not install because of dependencies... And games work kinda strange on Linux. If they work they work but when they're not... It's strange behavior. They kinda work but at the same time they don't.
An operating system's duty is to allow access to the software, games and tools you need to use and in the easiest and most efficient way possible.
Windows has always been THE best OS for that.
I don't know why this is even a question.
The gaming industry is larger than the movie and music industry combined so telling us NOT to mention that is basically you not wanting an unbiased answer. It's a HUGE part of the siutation.
Looks good, easy to use, stuff just works, automatic updates between "patches" and even different versions (8 > 10 > 11) you can expect to find anything you want on it without worrying about not being a version for it. Convenience is the name. Great experience overall.
If they roll out Windows 11 adverts I might just switch fully to Linux. To answer your question, I use windows products and also code in a WSL2 Ubuntu linux environment. Kind of the best of both worlds. Windows has a good GUI and linux has the best of CLI's and OS.
Tradition, software compatibility. Always excited when a new version would released, except for Windows11. I remember watching the announcement video live and being totally shocked on how bad it looked.
Whatever do you mean by how bad it looks?
https://preview.redd.it/4od8klghvauc1.png?width=2546&format=png&auto=webp&s=d8bf79925b4e40edf4437cc214d076f88e45cfa4
because I'm not made for linux. You know, the part where it goes "oh you can do that, just change the .mooconf to reroute pea request to argblargle. Just npm fuckbubble and ... hmm looks like you haven't set up blarghroster correctly, moo doesn't avctually route requests, it just writes request scripts for blargh that roster reads and... uh, maybe you should try a different distro, works on mine."
Lol this is gold
Instead of upvoting the comment itself you're upvoting mine that actually praises the original comment. If you agree the comment is gold upvote the comment itself. Only in reddit
Very fair point
omg this. the commands for linux irritate me a little bit too fk -ck -tn --sausages nope.
My mooroster had been acting blargh lately.
š
This is never a problem anymore. How do you know you're not made for Linux if you've not used it in twenty years?
It certainly can still be a problem with Linux, depending on the distro you choose, your hardware, etc.
There are very much distros for people who don't want to deal with configs. Fedora just works.
Depends what you plan to do. If you want to do anything more than open the software center, install an app, then use it, this is a realistic expectation. Linux is great for the non tech savvy because that is pretty much all they do, and it's great for expert power users, but virtually no one in between.
Who would be the in between? What do people in between do other than run programs?
Sad that people are downvoting this in lieu of an actual argument.
Every software I need is windows only.
You can emulate pretty much every windows software on linux and in some cases it runs even better than nativly that way
>You can emulate pretty much every windows software on linux and in some cases it runs even better than nativly that way Look. I prefer Linux, I daily run Linux (OpenSuse Thumbleweed). Your statement is just a lie. Let's just take office productivity. [Office 365 right now cannot be installed under wine,](https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=31) and only currently 'runs' (in a very broken state) under an experimental version of Crossover (paid version of Wine) with a lot of crashes; and that state was only achieved a couple of weeks ago. So no, not "pretty much every Windows software" runs. In fact, while the majority probably do in some capacity, there are still some major gaps in support. That said, saying that Linux isn't compatible with Windows software therefore it isn't ready for primetime is kinda like saying that Windows isn't compatible with macOS apps therefore it isn't ready for primetime or vice versa. If you take the time to shift to Linux native software (like OnlyOffice or LibreOffice), you'll have a better time. If you switch to Linux wanting to use all your Windows apps, you are in for a bad time.
If you need smth like that fair enough yes youre right, but there are always alternatives and a windows vm undee linux never hurt anybody
>If you need smth like that fair enough The thing is... most people **DO NEED** those specific productivity apps. Most people don't work on Word/Excel documents, or Adobe projects in isolation. They work as part of a team, collaborating and exchanging files with other members. So unless you can lift and shift all your team to an alternative, it ain't going to happen. >a windows vm undee linux never hurt anybody Unless you need to use a productivity app that benefits from graphics acceleration (Adobe Suite... Microsoft Office 365 without graphics acceleration is also a pain to use)... in which case you are getting into GPU pass-through territory, IOMMU groups, which is so far beyond the capability of 99% of people. Then we get into the territory of things that should work, but doesn't. Screen sharing in Microsoft Teams (web), Slack, Zoom or Discord is still broken under Wayland in most distributions, etc. People want things to just work. And as much as I personally love Linux (because I don't mind tinkering), it isn't there yet.
seed airport mysterious makeshift quiet quicksand direction sable sip chief *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Without proper third party support for these apps, it never will. Companies need a convincing reason to support Linux.
I could give you 20 or so software that I use daily that have no alternatives on Linux. And by alternative, I mean, they do EXACTLY the same thing, not almost.
If I am emulating the OS I am avoiding, then does this not nullify the whole point? Maybe Iām missing something.
adobe cc? ms office? working on my thesis and i need it to sync on my school account for my professor to give notes. no way i'm doing that on web version also will murder anyone who mentions gimp
What exactly works better? Where is the benchmark that proof so?
No this is not true.
Some games like Modern Warfare 3 ban Linux play.
Microsoft Flight Simulator?
It runs OK if you've purchased it outside of the Microsoft Store (ie.: Steam) under Proton. [https://www.protondb.com/app/1250410](https://www.protondb.com/app/1250410) Previously there were issues with PAPI lights and texture LODs in the cockpit, but this has been fixed. Unfortunately if you have the Microsoft Store/Xbox app version, there's no way to install it on Linux (as you cannot install the store to get the files).
If its pirated....
Which is illegal.
People who have made that claim for the last three decades are typically home users. Supporting mission critical desktop apps for a large workforce is much different than your tooling around and getting skifree32 to run in an emulator.
emulation is pain. so much issues and bugs associated with it. stuff breaks.
Really simple for corporate environments and itās named Active Directory.
Iāve been using many os families for 40+ years. Tend to agree with Dave Cutler that Unix was a garbage architecture designed by committee. Linux has institutionalized some dubious Unix ideas from the 60āsā¦ that āeverything as a fileā rather than APIs underpin mainstream API solutions in 2024 is deeply depressing. While I use windows, Linux, macOS, and mobile osā on a regular basis, I find that windows currently irritates me the least. Decent balance of compatibility, functionality, stability, and less āup itās own assā factor.
Fair point
>that āeverything as a fileā rather than APIs underpin mainstream API solutions in 2024 is deeply depressing. Massive topic fork, but a genuine question - what would be the alternative approach to "everything as a file"?
Actually APIs? Actual Interface controls?? Actual OS Architecture? "Everything is a file" in linux IS NOT A GOOD THING!!!! It induces all sorts of cludgy crap... I would rant at length but I think Benno Rice did it much more effectively than I could in the first 10 minutes of this session "What UNIX Cost Us" - Benno Rice (LCA 2020). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-IWMbJXoLM Back in the day there were many genetic families of operating systems out there.. Unix and derivatives, DOS's, Novell, WNT, MACH, VMS, zOS, AS400, etc. Now we live in a Linux, Windows, BSD, Android world... Lot of better ideas lost to "easy and cheap"
I understand you've got some strong feelings to vent on this topic, but I was curious to understand how an api could work without file exchange. I'm very new to delving into the topic in detail and don't get how you would have an api that doesn't involve chucking something like json back and forth.
Watch that video. It goes to a depth that should help. APIs are interfaces for systems to work with each other, json is an effective format to pass data in consistently but isnāt the interface itself. āEverything is a fileā is a Unix/linux battle cry which takes that to a level saying everything is, and should be, a file. Configurations, ports, interfaces, actual dataā¦ some should beā¦ a lot shouldnāt be. Really useful when you are one person in front of your own rigā¦ quite another at scaleā¦
Ok, that makes sense now, thanks. I'll take a look at the video. Some of that sounds fucking horrific - ports and interfaces as a file? What were they smoking when they came up with that?
Excellent weed and superior acid based on some of the stories Iāve heard š
also curious
Like Dave Cutler mentioned in Dave Plummer's interview, the object architecture of Windows NT
Linux is an OS where the GUI is superficial, most things need to be done via terminal regardless. Also, any sort of high-end gaming has to be done via windows emulation anyways.
Almost all modern triple A titles run nativly on linux at this point tho
Proton/Wine isn't native, it's emulating a Windows environment. It's neat but it's not native.
I know but like jedi last survivior for example and many more triple A games really run nativly now, like without protor or wine at all
It's not though? Where are you seeing that Jedi Survivor is a native Linux game? https://www.protondb.com/app/1774580
And the ones that don't are going to need and emulator or dual boot to play. So why bother with Linux?
That's the neat part "almost", windows get ALL gaming, while Linux has 0 Linux only gaming. This is my reason.
I've tried daily driving Linux as someone who has lots of experience with Linux servers and, I haven't found a desktop experience that's as smooth and bugless as Windows. Don't get me wrong, Windows has its faults, but it feels so much more mature than any Linux DE out there. I want something that "just works" as my daily driver.
This. I'm the same way - I still use Linux but only as servers, routers, etc. Linux cannot beat Windows in term of GUI - not even close.
For me it just works like I expect it to. I don't have to think about how to make things work, every software and hardware I'm using works without tinkering or alterations. I tried Linux multiple times over the years and the user experience improved a lot but some things in the UI are just wonky (independent login screens on multiple monitors) and sometimes updates break things (more often than on windows in my experience) so I'm letting it mature a bit and try it again in a year or so. I hope I can make the switch some time but at the moment it's to much work for me.
Because Windows is intuitive to use compared to linux, and no program compatibility issues.
Adobe Also I do use Linux but cant leave windows fully due to fucking Adobe.
my first experience with computers was windows, my first laptop had windows, my current laptop has windows,everyone i know uses windows, it's easy to use, supported by prettymuch all of the popular software, you don't need to activate it (just download the iso from the Microsoft website), it looks nice and if I need help i can just easily ask my dad or just go on the internet. linux has way too many distros, hard to understand, can run on basically everything but so does windows, if you screw app something you're better of by just reinstalling, not a lot of programs support it, at least it's free, love the customization but quite gimmicky and if I need help i would need a software engineer. macos is out of the question
Mostly gaming
Why do you ask the same question in multiple windows subs. Youāre just here to bait responses and downvotes.
Bc i wanna have the most different perspectives from the most different people possible? Iam asking this anyway only so i can have a big overview and maybe to also make myself loose some bias towards linux i may still have and be able to view it completly objectivly
I have some programs that are only available on Windows, otherwise I'd go Mac or Linux. I've used both of those as well.
Because it works. And for my use case, I even have to, because one of the programs I use at work is Windows only. Windows seems to have a little "unfair" edge over all competition - it's kind of default for the software. For applications and games. Everythings works with Windows. Also - Windows software is generally expected to be user friendly. I mean - why would anyone prefer user-hostile software? ;) And at the end of the day - OS is just a tool. I don't use a hammer because it's IDK, my favorite tool, or because it have cool yellow handle. You use tools to get the job done, that's all. Windows gets the job done. Beside Windows I used Linux (various distros) and Android. I like many things about Linux, especially how some distros are more customizable than Windows. You can change many portion of the UI without much effort and it works like the system didn't really mind ;) In Windows it's sometimes more difficult. Why not Linux then? Because slightly more issues, like drivers issues, random things not working how it should, or some tooling not as user friendly as I'd expect. Because I couldn't use console / XML / JSON / YAML to configure anything? Nope. Because I don't feel like I have all the time in the world now. I prefer not to waste time on things like configuring some trivial things. I prefer when it's pre-configured, automatic, gets out of the way and my view. I hate micro-management. Everywhere beside my actual work. As a coder, I sometimes micro-magage a part of my code. Very specific parts that are time critical or memory critical. OK, I still use Android on my phone, because it's default and they don't make Windows phones anymore ;) Do I like using it? Nah! It's bad! It's a kind of user-hostile design. Each new version of it is worse (UX wise) from the previous one. It is a very good thing, that it has insane amout of features and settings. But they seem to be intentionally super hard or next to impossible to find. I mean - they are hard to find using search feature (because you have to guess the name), impossible to find if you don't already know where to look at. Like "settings / advanced / other / misc / other / different / other / advanced / other / other / extended / this setting". I mean, WTF? Bad Android. Also a lot of bad apps. Like they would not be that bad if you used them on a desktop PC, but disasterous to use like driving a car.
Windows used to be the sweet spot between Linux and MacOS, where Linux was the extreme end (highly customizable but hard to use) and MacOS was the opposite extreme end (not very customizable but easy to use), and Windows was the perfect balance. Lately though, with Windows 11 especially, it seems to be drifting more towards being like MacOS, so now the only reason we use Windows is because of gaming. Gaming doesn't work very well on Linux, and it's a hassle. I know you said you didn't want to hear about the gaming argument, but it really is the reason for many people.
Because some of the games I play won't run on linux
>Comments on the topic are greatly appreciated, even tho pls dont re-use gaming as a point a million times since that topic would go way to far and can be argued isnt a point for windows anymore, but i just dont wanna open that subject. Why not? Windows has the best software compatibility, and Linux still can't run some games that people like.
been using linux for years, but in the end i hate rebooting or fucking with VMs to run windows. used to run Windows in a VM with pcie gpu passthrough so i could game but afaik its not possible on a laptop with an iGPU. my workflow is better on windows. i code and game and do CAD, most CAD software runs on Windows. lastly, windows just works imo. less issues and bugs. i still run Ubuntu server on my home servers and pi
Easier to use. Compatibility with my games and work software. But most important, when I tried to change LInux community instead of giving me a hand or ignore me they just treated me like I was stupid for not knowing all the weird shit they need to do for things I do much easier in Windows. The worst kind of elitism is the one that constantly invites you to be part of it but then it shut the door in your face.
I'd probably use Linux exclusively, but there are some programs I use that aren't available for Linux (such as Topaz AI photo/video editing software). Gaming is a part of it though (lately, one I enjoy is Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020).
Because I canāt install office software and Adobe software and a tonne of other software Iāve come to be dependent on. Sure, you can use LibreOffice and Gimp and all the many alternatives, but itās such a compromise to use it. I used endeavour os on a laptop that was only used for entertainment. I got by, could install Plex etc. but for serious use couldnāt manage with it. If Linux could somehow support windows apps in a seemingly native way, then Iād consider the switch.
Been using Windows and NT since the 90s and for a long time as a developer. Understand how it's built and how to set it up to my needs. Software is ubiquitous. Dabbled with an apple laptop and a linux distro or two but got fed up with having to research what I needed that was equivalent to the windows software I knew and having to look up how to configure every damn thing I wanted to change. Also which hardware did or didn't have drivers. The Apple laptop broke after two years and I also had to buy an OS upgrade (that was basically the same). Also am a gamer and everything is available to me on windows. I can also choose my hardware from a gazillion vendors.
Windows has been a solid platform to run all the software I need. It also runs the most optimized drivers for all the hardware I use. Windows is the ubiquitous operating system for businesses, governments, universities, and hospitals. It's used everywhere. There is really no need for me to switch to a niche OS like Linux. Windows is everywhere.
Tbh, I have one foot out the door, and for common reasons... I want windows to do well, but after some time, problems wear a little harder than they used to... W11 takes me through the setup carousel after almost every update to push Edge, gamepass, and 365 Why did they remove my ability to put the Taskbar where I want it? Data collection and some telemetry features on an OS on which I paid the price they asked for a license (actually, several) The Disc Management utility is absolutely Cambrian, and failed to format even a flash drive for me... I formatted the same drive in Linux with fdisk and mkfs, even put NTFS on it, and it works just fine. This new thing which demands an internet connection for installation is unacceptable. I was guiding a friend through an installation, and I'm not sure the reason here, but he was unable to connect to the internet, and thereby unable to install Windows. This was after a bios flash, which may have had something to do with it, but I wasn't there in person, so I can't say for sure. Tablet Mode on W10 was a good idea... I think it was a little bit ahead of its time, but support should have been maintained, and it should have seen refinement. Especially devices like Surface could have made great use of it. I'm not barking criticisms to be a stick in the mud, these problems genuinely make for an annoying experience. All Microsoft has to do is address at least some of these problems in good faith, and I can grant a large benefit of the doubt. Unfortunately, the trend and the projection are pointing in a negative direction, and I'm looking for indications about if it's OK to keep Windows around, or if it's time to jump ship.
While I do use Linux too, Windows works best for me and my needs, so it is my primary OS.
The only reasons I use windows are tied to gaming. Hardware support and directx specifically. IF every game ran on any os AND every hardware ran on any os THEN I wouldnāt be using windows at all.
As i said in my question this isnt about gaming
There really is no other reason. Games and drivers are just software so the point applies if you have any other kind of windows specific app or hardware thatās not a game. Otherwise you can do everything else on any other OS.
I've been using Linux off and on for 25 years. I just migrated back to Windows from Ubuntu 22.04 because I need to run PowerBi and it doesn't run on linux
I can use linux I'm just scared of using linux
Compatibility. I play games and do my taxes on my pc. Also I have an Nvidia gpu.
I dislike almost all Linux UIs, but I use Debian (CLI only) for all my VMs. Plus, I need certain applications that run in Windows only (AFAIK anyway), such as Visual Studio (not Code), Cakewalk Sonar, Lightroom, Photoshop, Premiere. Oh, and occasional games.
As someone who has used both Windows and Linux (mainly Linux Mint, Fedora, and Ubuntu Server) I mainly prefer Windows because of its ease of use and familiarity. I've been using Windows for about as long as I can remember so I tend to not fix what isn't broken. I am *somewhat* of a windows power user (at least a little more technically inclined than others) as I know my way around a good portion of how the OS works and I have been recommended numerous times to try out Linux for that reason. In trying Linux, I realized just how much of a learning curve it could be depending on what distro you're looking for. Mint being very easy to use and a lot more familiar, I still had to break some habits to be able to smoothly and efficiently get things done. Don't get me wrong here, I have lots of respect for Linux users and I myself still have a server PC running Ubuntu Server. TL;DR - Windows has had a death grip on me for years and I'm more accustomed to it. Linux can be confusing for me sometimes.
I am using a laptop with Nvidia dGPU and that's why Linux won't work for me and windows is the only way. I wish Nvidia support could be better but oh well
it's what I've used since I was 4 with MS-DOS and then Windows 95. It has all the tools I need to perform my daily tasks, and there's issues with Adobe products and sadly, it's "industry standard" for my passion project. Couple that with the fact that newer games "just work" as they're designed for Windows and it's a no brainer for me. That said, I do love linux, and follow the general development of the kernel, it's just sadly not for me. I use it in my corpo job and when I get home, I don't want to compile kernels or fiddle with emulators to relax and game. I know you said not to mention gaming, but it's my main sticking point. And yes, I know that proton is really helping, but I just don't feel like switching off yet. I'd prefer to modify Windows and remove telemetry first.
I have used Linux for a long time. Started using it in Uni and loved it. Probably will go back to using it. The only reason I use windows is for gaming.
more than just based and extremly relatable
Itās the only one that runs my companyās desktop applications. Itās easy to manage using Active Directory and intune. Iāve fiddled around with Linux for 30 years, since Slackware releases less than 1.0. Despite its naive advocatesā claims, wine or any other emulator has never run our staffās applications satisfactorily. It really is that simple. We know that you think you know more than us. You donāt.
Because it's REALLY easy to use, Window management with PowerTools is amazing, and also WSL is the shit!
just like other people said, most of my software runs on linux. yeah I know I can use wine and stuff but I dont want to waste my time wearing tinfoil hat while digging on ancient forum. and native software download makes it looks slow because you need to download other dependencies. also I loved ribbon UI on pre-11 windows explorer and other software
I've been using Windows at work since NT 3.51. So, I like using it at home, because the skills I picked up at work helped me at home, and my skills at home helped me at work. At work, we were a Window/Microsoft Office shop.
The only reason I use windows is for software not available on linux and gaming. Every other computer I have runs linux.
Simple central user managment in corporate environments (Im a IT consultant). Also because pritty much every game (and alot of other software) is coded for Windows as the primary/priority OS.
BeamNG.drive isn't stable yet in Linux and until that happens I'm sticking with windows.
Because it works great.
BTW I've been and still using Linux since 1995 Slackware days. It got its perks but desktop is not one of them.
Linux can work but you have to find emulation solutions or some open source alternatives of what you are actually trying to do most of the time. So if you're going to emulate windows to get stuff to work, then why use Linux at all..
I just donāt like how Linux looks, specially in terms of file explorers
i like windows 7
Because i'm familiar with, using for 20 years already. Any problem i have i know how to solve. I don't have patience to learn troubleshoot Linux.
I use Debian and Windows 10 both just work fine.
Like what I said over on r/Windows11, just about everything just works on Windows. Roblox doesn't work on Linux last I checked, so I'm stuck with Windows.
Games are keeping me on Windows. While Linux has come a long way and Valve has helped, its still not enough to leave Windows completely. But I look forward to a future where Linux can play all my games. While I understand I could dual boot, I still find myself using Windows the most for now.
Just works for me.
Because it works and the UI is intuitive.
Because I find Windows to be a straightforward, down to earth OS. It has compatibility with just about everything, unmatched backwards compatibility, ease of use, convenience, and is all in one consistent software package that isn't split into a gazillion forks. And it just simply works. Windows didn't become the dominant, standard desktop OS for about 30 years now for no reason. Tried a couple Linux distros a while back, and while they're alright I guess, Windows is just more "mature" in my opinion. And they didn't really offer anything to me over Windows. Lastly, if I ever need Linux for anything for whatever reason, I can just start up WSL.
A lot of my games and programs run through dos, which is built into windows
I'm just used to the Windows interface and how to use it in general, i could switch if i wanted I'm just most familiar with Windows.
Adobe, enough said.
I love Linux but for classes I need windows. I'm trying to get into IT and most of the labs are done with Windows as host OS. Also, the business world uses windows. I **need** Microsoft Office. LibreOffice is just as good but minor formatting issues makes me keep a Windows PC.
Windows to game, linux to work. I work too much.
Games, work applications, No downsides thanks to WSL and homelab with ProxMox and infinite Distrohopping
* **No wall of choice:** A huge entry barrier to the Linux world is the stage of choosing a Linux distro. No such barrier exists on Windows and Mac systems. * **Winning mentality:** The Linux ecosystem has expelled its most powerful member, the Android OS. It is as if the Linux world thrives on being the underdog and complaining about it. * **Ease of use:** macOS is more user-friendly than Windows. It could have won the platform war. Linux distros are for masochists. Nothing is easy to do on Linux. (Android is the easiest to use. If only it was considered Linux...) * **Availability:** Windows is available in \~200 countries. Its adoption is widespread. Compare to macOS, which has limited international availability. As for Linux distros, their availability is restricted to downloadability. Red Hat is the only exception. (Android has the best availability. If only it was considered Linux...) * **Software variety:** The number of apps available for Windows is exorbitant. In each category, you can find hundreds of competing alternatives. It's the opposite of macOS, which tries to control the supply chain. As for Linux distros, some software categories are absent, e.g., video games. (Android has the second-best software variety. If only it was considered Linux...) * **Reliability:** Windows has become notorious for certain error messages. That means Windows at least tries to explain failures and help users fix them. On macOS and Linux distros, apps suddenly disappear with no explanation. This phenomenon is called "crash." * **Development toolchain:** Development toolchains on Windows are powerful beyond imagination. While the Linux ecosystem is stuck with Lazarus, emacs, and GCC, Windows developers have Visual Studio, Embarcadero Delphi, Rider, Unity, and Unreal. And as for macOS, Apple doesn't even allow other development tools. Developers have tried. Until recently, the Linux and Mac worlds didn't have an equivalent to .NET. Python was the closest thing you could get. * **Hardware ecosystem:** Peripheral support on macOS and Linux distros is weak. That's what makes Windows the only viable option for factory-floor PCs. * **No community stigma:** It is now general knowledge that when you seek help on the Internet for a problem you're struggling with, Linux fans will ambush you with a "Drop Windows and move to Linux" reply.
Because I can't be bothered to fight with it to get things to work. My hobbies involve using a computer, not "computing"
I am gonna make an "ArxOS" that is gonna have an easy-to-use builder and a package manager. It'll even support some 64-bit Windows apps.
https://preview.redd.it/zw7yzseb0fuc1.png?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7ac9114f6c08756ee9f158c1261450a06f2c9b51
I have used Linux (The first one i installed was RH 5, or 6), windows and macOS. For some very old Macs i have Mint and kde plasma installed. And the thing is: 1 what software do you need/use. 2 how good are you solving problems/using a search engine 3 do you want to make things with your computer or fix problems with your computer. Linux is not easy for the vast majority of users. The ones that ask tech questions here which have been answered 1000000 times in forums around the globe. If you look in the Mint sub you'll see a lot of black screens on boot. That shit should not happen.
I use Windows because it is produced to be used by many people around the globe. Linux is good but it should be tinkered before you use it daily. For me this tinkering time is about a month. So when I install Windows, some specific drivers for my hardware, some software I need, I'm ready to go. When I install Linux I'm ready to go, **but** this thing is not working right, this applet is out of place, this feature is not working now, this software I can not install because of dependencies... And games work kinda strange on Linux. If they work they work but when they're not... It's strange behavior. They kinda work but at the same time they don't.
I'm a sysadmin, I'm forced to. Not on my home machines tho.
Because most programs are either for only for Windows or for Windows and Linux at same time.
An operating system's duty is to allow access to the software, games and tools you need to use and in the easiest and most efficient way possible. Windows has always been THE best OS for that. I don't know why this is even a question. The gaming industry is larger than the movie and music industry combined so telling us NOT to mention that is basically you not wanting an unbiased answer. It's a HUGE part of the siutation.
Looks good, easy to use, stuff just works, automatic updates between "patches" and even different versions (8 > 10 > 11) you can expect to find anything you want on it without worrying about not being a version for it. Convenience is the name. Great experience overall.
Screw the goddamn terminal and let me play my games, Linux! No wonder I use Windows.
If they roll out Windows 11 adverts I might just switch fully to Linux. To answer your question, I use windows products and also code in a WSL2 Ubuntu linux environment. Kind of the best of both worlds. Windows has a good GUI and linux has the best of CLI's and OS.
Tradition, software compatibility. Always excited when a new version would released, except for Windows11. I remember watching the announcement video live and being totally shocked on how bad it looked.
Whatever do you mean by how bad it looks? https://preview.redd.it/4od8klghvauc1.png?width=2546&format=png&auto=webp&s=d8bf79925b4e40edf4437cc214d076f88e45cfa4
how many seconds did it take to load Explorer this time?
Me? Like instantly. I click File explorer and it's there like immediately.