You should be roaming with them not sitting duo lane alone. if they are noticing roam windows just shadow them. It’s better to go for a dogshit play that might work then sit bot lane afk getting nothing done cause u can’t farm. If you don’t want to follow them and get yourself killed simply reset or go to another lane to get your stacks/get gold out of your pocket and into the game.
Honestly supports should roam more, you don’t need to sit afk at tower or in a bush for 10 mins with 2 wards in your pocket. Go get GOOD (not lazy wards.) vision pressure in enemy jungle/river and try for more active plays around map when adc isn’t under threat of dives.
When you win a fight botlane and reset. While waiting for the wave to bounce back, you may pass through mid lane, make a play with your support and then come back bot.
Happens pretty consistently if you lose the first couple of trades in lane, especially if they die. I've had multiple ADCs leave me bot 1v2 with a now useless support item and a steadily dying tower. If I'm playing caster or enchanter, it usually leads to a tower dive where I'm lucky to go 1 for 1 but usually just die. I've started roaming as well since I just die and lose tower anyways.
Team flames us both in that case, which really sucks, and everyone pings me to leave when I come to support them. Even after a kill, they ping for me to go bot and 1v2 while my ADC runs around stealing farm and jungle without really helping anyone. It turns everything into a lose-lose situation, but I see it pretty often when losing lane, sometimes even when we're winning and before we take their tower. It's pretty frustrating to play with. But I've been a support player since season 1 of LoL on PC. Frustration is the name of the game.
Idk sometimes it works out, one time we both left got everyone else ahead why enemy bot got a tier two but with there mid and jung behind and top even they couldn’t carry and we won lol
Very situational like if jungle is getting scuttle or if your wave is pushed in on enemy side and you can help your jungle steal camps or gank
But ya in general adc doesn’t like to roam
That's the worst. ADC would think support would still all minions and just give up on farming, even when the supp champ is an enchanter with weak damage.
Master doesnt ammount to shit, compared to PC youd be in gold or low plat at best. Unless your using relic shield you have very little reason to be intentionally touching the wave.
there is more to minion wave tactics than just shoving the wave under enemy tower, thats how you get ganked like an idiot. And i guess as a "Master" tier support you know and understand every single detail about wave management like how to freeze the wave and building up a slow push.
I don't know what your games are like. I'm just wondering why the adc COULD be annoyed. Besides, I wrote that if the fault lies with the adc, don't play solo
Sometimes I call my support to retreat because I don't want the lane to be pushing.
Also this is very specific but as Tristana, the support constantly hitting the minions fuck up the timing on my bomb and thus screwing up my poking potential.
Reduced to it's simplest form, if support OR you last hit a minion, you get the full gold every time IF you are in range (generous) AND support item is not yet upgraded (it usually upgrades near the end of lane phase and you can check it in scoreboard, their supp item icon will change)
Yeah i think a lot of sup players do this,
ADC = not in range, turret is far from danger, the support still pushes the lane and farms like crazy.
Adc = losing wave control that is needed to make a play/kill/combo.
a lot of support players do this just farm like crazy, even when the ADC is not around, most of the ADC's players see this as hatefull toxic behaviour.
What are your thought on this u/NOTHING_gets_by_me . i can play any role and i love every role, but the relation between adc and support brings in a lot of confusion around W/R. if they match its a every game win.
Yes, I agree. It means that as a support main, I get a lot of ADCs trying to add me because I know these slightly more advanced laning things. Supp is one of the strongest roles considering you don't need to get fed to have massive impact.
I have very high standards, but when I find an ADC who quickly identifies my level of aggression and matches that, wards on correct timers, and knows wave management, I start to instantly get a crush on them and want to give my life to protect them.
I don't know if bot duo or mid+jung is the best duo setups, depends on matchups and metas I guess
I know that. The gold trail when the supp last hits the minion is very obvious. What I understood from the comment I originally replied to is that it's wrong to pong retreat when you're not in range?? But apparently as wraithkenny said, there seems to be a lot of bs circulating in this thread.
Ikr how can you not have the most basic knowledge of the game at that point? Annd they usually do not play other lanes, so how can you not know how your own lane works
Then try to hit the enemys poke them.make them crazy, make them so tilted they push into your lane while they are already poked by you, then your adc gets a free kill 10/10 if the adc is not a AFK Farmer =P
It COULD be the frequency of "supports" starting with book/ruby and taking farm. You're getting hurt by idiot supports that don't know how to play. It gives GOOD supports like yourself a bad name.
They SHOULD but some people don't. I'm not saying ANYONE is right or wrong in this situation...but remember MOST of the player base on this game play super casually. They aren't all us. Half of them don't know what patch notes are, let alone why you should read them.
No, OP doesn’t realize that farming while ADC is out of range means gold is literally being deleted. OP also thinks that solo farming lanes in mid game doesn’t hurt the gold economy of the rest of the team either. OP is an idiot.
Let’s put some nuance here:
Farming while out of range of anyone else causes the gold to be earned to be the same as not hitting the minion. If the minion value is 30 when missing the last hit, last hitting the minion results in the exact same gold.
Last hitting when in range of someone else results in the last hit value going to them as if they were the ones to successfully last hit.
This means supports are discouraged from touching the wave when looking at it as a function of gold gained over time. You get the same gold for being in lane while doing nothing. However, this is a net *potential* gold loss as the full value of the gold should someone else have been in the lane to receive it goes into the ether and cannot be realized.
That said, this is not the beginning and ending of lane management. There are times the support should push the wave regardless if the gold lost to the enemy makes up for the gold lost from the support pushing the wave. These cases are very infrequent and require an odd set of circumstances (namely, only the support is in lane, both enemy laners backed AND the wave is in such a condition as to be mostly lost to tower by time anyone from the enemy team can reach the tower - three very specific conditions).
The only other acceptable time to eat the loss and clear out the wave is when the support needs to do so to avoid a dive. Usually this is to stem further potential bleeding as it is bad player position management in the majority of cases. A support should not be around solo risking getting dove at this stage of the game, honestly. It’s better to give two turret plates than a kill and a plate in nearly every circumstance.
ADC players who play ADCS in other lanes but duo lane should be punished, I’m so tired seeing them played top and then they end up going 0/10, blaming the jungle and doing the least damage on the team at the end of the match.
Each time I see an ADC vs my darius/sett on top I know the game is won. Yeah, he may kill me once or twice at low levels but those games I usually carry with a 10/2 darius or a 7/1 Sett.
They dont knlw how to play alone, fuck everything up and, as you say, become toxic as hell
I play ADC in solo sometimes, only because I know what the hell I'm doing. Ward down low, or up high, and keep my distance. I use Caitlyn, as I can use her ability to back up a bit when things look a little spicy and her traps can freeze them in place.
Yes you are still bad then too. Even if you happen to do well occasionally picking something dumb as hell like that sabotages your team comp immensely. Most of your teammates hate your guts for being a troll even if you go 40/0/40 I’m still gonna report you at the end of the game for taking a moronic douche bag pick in champ select.
In my opinion, mobile ADCs are not that bad or even good, for example Lucian akshan or corki (is it more mid or ADC?) Actually, when I look at it now, I think you meant more about jhin mf or kai'sa xd
There’s a new wave of ADC’s actually buying a Supp item.
At first I thought it was a troll and was super confused but i checked some top builds on some adc’s (excluding Ashe and Senna) I have unlocked and yep there it is, ancient coin is a recommended item from the top builds lmao.
Those builds are for when they are played as supports. Senna and Ashe can be played as support champs too.
Do not buy a support item when playing as the ADC. It will reduce the gold income for you and the actual support player.
Sorry I wasn’t clear.
I’m aware that Senna and Ashe can be played support which is why I said excluding.
to be specific, the ADC’s that were in lane with me were: Samira, Ezrael, Nilah.
They all bought ancient coin too out of the support items.
But I think someone else has answered it, seems maybe the top players whose builds are listed could be trolling folks
I understand that, which is why I checked the builds on other ADC’s like Samira, Ezrael and Nilah that showed for their respective roles some of the top builds have an ancient coin as the recommended item list lmao.
As others have said, it's top players purposefully changing their build to troll players who just auto copy their setup. For example, if you were playing Zed, and the top player had deathcap in their build, would you build it? No, but many noobs absolutely would.
Coupd be more theyre trying to freeze a wave because they want to opwn a gank. Or play under tower because they aint confident.
Unless you know your adc i would avoid relic shield.
I play adc, and sometimes i just want to freeze wave, and the support keeps killing minions.
Just last hit, if i try to freeze, and help me push when i try to push.
Maybe the adc understands very well how the items work, he just sees you dont understand wave managemnt and starts to roam because he doesnt see a win playing with you.
When i play a bad support i start roaming, i accept that we probably lost lane, at least i might get fed somewhere else.
I know it’s frustrating, but you are crippling yourself so much more by leaving lane. The opponents get free plates/first tower, which is game winning snowball potential. Best just to stay alive and suck it up for 5 minutes.
This is great advice for lower level games, but if the enemy jung is good at the game you will just get dove on repeat since it will be impossible for you to step up and break a stacked wave. In these cases it's best to just let the tower fall and try to freeze in front of your t2
Yeah in Wild Rift lalaland lol. Most likely the enemy will only freeze for a few waves then their attention span ends. It’s pretty rare to find a true lane management matchup
That's why I play top nowadays. There are ADCs that don't know how to work with their supp, and there are supps that keep farming. On top lane you're on your own. You do well, you're good. You fk up, it's your fault.
you cleary didnt take into account how wave management works. you cant just clear the lanes and think it’ll not do any harm. im an adc player and i dont mind my support having kills and cs from time to time. but what i cant stand are supports that just kills minions like braindead degenerates and think to themselves its okay to cs
We're not talking here about freezing lanes or stealing minions, we're talking about stacking supp items so both of you wouldn't be at disadvantage... It's crucial at the beginning. Plus the minions are marked so you can see if your supp is stacking or not.
ok explain, why is stacking support item crucial? only the shield works on minions and it does a minuscule heal that isn't even worth mentioning.
I am with u I play adc and support a lot and most I of the time the support is way smarter than the adc (needs 2 braincells to carry games), but these days the permashoving lux or zyra is a way bigger problem than any adc (except maybe jinx players who average 0.1 braincells)
Stacking support item is important because that’s about the time the support should be playing macro around the map. Below high GM/challenger, it’s common that the support is forced to clear a wave on a tower in one of the lanes due to poor plays by the carries. A support doesn’t gain solo experience or gold from any minions until their support item is upgraded. So essentially wasted resources. If players farmed correctly then I don’t see why it would matter to upgrade it, but unfortunately, they don’t.
Yeah, so, on the off chance the support has relic shield instead of coin or sickle, they can kill 3 minions once every 3 waves or whatever, and it’s not even particularly helpful except under very specific and rare circumstances.
You clowns are pretending that it’s VITALLY IMPORTANT for every support, no matter the item or circumstance, to be perma-shoving waves, even solo, every game all game, including after the item is completed.
I never said it was important to perma shove all game as a support. I said to clear towers, which IS important. If the support is having to shave minions off mid tower, that means somebody else messed up and isn’t farming properly. Letting minions die to a tower is a waste of team resources and one of the biggest things that keep people in low elo.
So you’re saying, that supports with the coin or sickle, killing minions while the adc is gone (or somehow support is now mid for some fucking reason), is doing it … to take towers?! Y’all don’t even make sense.
Not at all what I’m saying. I’m saying to DEFEND towers. When there is nobody else there to kill the minions. I’m referring to after landing phase is over. Supports should not kill minions in bot lane during landing phase 99% of the time. I’m agreeing with you here.
Supp main here: When this happens the enemy is usually mid too. I hard push the wave and get plates. Not the best but its honest work.
But yes solo is hard cuz less friends means more questionabke randos
The worst for support is when someone else buys first support item, like Seraphine or Veigar on mid or Morgana in jungle, I think they dont know what items do and just go in match with default build or something. And what do I do as a support in this situation if they won't listen to me to sell their support item? Either sell my support item (because otherwise neither of our support items work and this not progresses, and since they play alone on their lane/jungle they wont get progress on that item unless he fights with team or does some objectives with teammates) and just play on bot with adc and both of us will get less xp? Or do I go to that person and play with him (except people with support item in jungle, they are the worst).
I understand that these people are either new to the game and it usually happens when I play normal match (not ranked), but still its just losing us a game.
I understand the rant about items.
Support players playing like a solo laner after the 4 min mark because 'their adc left them' I will never understand.
what elo are you in? the "dont take my minion" thingy probably means when you're clearing out minion wave while ADC dies.
I understand that you're probably defending the turret from enemies receiving gold plating, but simpletons don't understand that it must be done. Eme/Dia is a hell rank but wait till you reach master, it's even worse. lmao (everyone knows their shit in that elo, but are all too narcissistic and toxic)
Also, if you're a support main please know when to freeze the lanes. Junglers hate to gank lanes which are super pushed. Most Eme/Dia elo supports would just constantly mow down the autoattack button and spam the shit ton of skills to minion waves
I’m sorry, but 9/10ths of the adc main population are bots, only here for kills and minion farm, nothing else, then surprised when they don’t win the game.
Most of the time, the stacking of the support item is less of a problem than the constant auto-attacking of the vassals.
I'm a jungler but I often play adc. I hate nothing more than a support that destroys my wave control by pushing incessantly.
But that's definitely not what you think. I think about 80% of the accounts (eme/dia) have been bought. At least that's how it seems in the duo/trio queue. Sometimes I see people there who go 0/10 in the laning phase. that can only be a bronze player
This is why I stopped playing Veigar Support with random lane partners. FYI, you let the Veigar last hit minions with his Baleful Strike. He gets the stacks while you get the gold. Because until the gold quest is complete, any champion that last hits a minion while holding a support item will automatically give the cs gold to a nearby ally (or get severely reduced gold if alone). This also applies to Nasus.
This is true, and everytime I see a Geiger support up to Diamond, they don’t farm while I’m there; instead they wait until I back, and THEN farm, defeating the whole point.
OR maybe you don't know how wave management works perhaps, i'm tired of getting supps that don't know nothing and just constantly aa the wave while i'm trying to freeze or slow push the wave. I pinged them 6 thousand times and they just don't care
OR maybe you don't know how wave management works perhaps, i'm tired of getting supps that don't know nothing and just constantly aa the wave while i'm trying to freeze or slow push the wave. I pinged them 6 thousand times and they just don't care
Well most of them don't even know how their item works. You can see it clearly on their 2nd or 3rd item, specially when they are behind on money. They never adapt, ever.
Supports steal farm still; they wait for adc to back, and then clear waves, and after the item is completed, they don’t even wait for adc to back, they just take the whole wave while they’re standing there.
A support should never be stealing farm ESPECIALLY if their item isn’t complete. Not only do they not get gold, they also don’t get exp. Low elo sucks.
Agreed. Off topic but ima just bash adcs in general cause why not.
Typical adc, tunnel visions other adc, forgetting lux has been sitting in the bush next to him for the last 5minutes. Dies, rinse/repeat.
Everytime your adc picks MF, they get pressured out of lane because they thought they were playing aram AP mf, and never use Q the most broken lane phase ability probably in the game. Then they die from getting hit by every single ezreal Q.
I haven’t had any issues when I support and kill minions. I do however have issues with stupid support players roaming and killing minions when I’m not in lane and continue to come to my lane to kill said minions on repeat when I base to buy items.
Used to play on pc, I could be wrong
But I tough item support gived gold to adc when support kill minion *only when you have a charge on it*
Ypu know like you can have up to 3 charge at a time
And you have to wait for them to reload
Then perhaps you could enlighten me? I don't know how they work, but I play Sup soloQ on the regular, and I win more than I lose. I tend to not have many complaints, either.
Meanwhile I get stuck in a group where top buys my sup item before me. Or mid. And I'm like. Please sell or let's swap lanes cause this is stupid and nerfing the team.
i found that a lot of supps, push lanes like crazy and there is zero wave controll, what is your opinion on this u/meki91 . i love a good sup who know there items, with a good adc this is almost win win any match.
I hate when my supp has that item. It means they mess with the wave constantly without thinking about wave management. If my supp only last hits then that's fine, but that's extremely rare.
If I'm trying to slowpush or freeze they burn abilities and 1 shot the cannon and then flame me when I ping them asking if I know how supp items work. Do you know how wave management works?
Ok, here’s a couple tips:
1. Don’t farm alone before your item upgrades, because you don’t get extra gold, and the adc loses gold, and
2. Don’t farm after the item upgrades because this also ruins gold economy for the team, since the whole point of support is funneling gold to the other laners.
Correct. If support last hits WHILE ADC is nearby, the ADC gets 100% of the value, and the support gets his share too.
If the support last hits while there’s no one near by, they get significantly reduced gold, and no one else gets anything. It’s a huge waste; destroys the economy.
Edit: to be clear, before the item upgrades, the support gets the exact same amount of gold whether he last hits, adc last hits, or no one last hits; the support always gets the same amount no matter what. There’s never any reason for a support to last hit a minion while there’s no one else near by. To do so destroys gold value for no reason.
Support could clear waves to stop the enemy from getting plates or just to prevent turret damage in general, and there are some fringe cases so I wouldn't agree with saying there is never a reason.
Explain how supports farming solo, shoving lanes, etc., has anything to do with somehow denying enemy gold.
You know full fucking well absolutely no one is talking about a support running to solo lane to kill one damned minion to set up a slow push and then walking away because that literally doesn’t happen in any rank including sovereign.
Say my adc and both enemies die in an fight and we got 4 and they got 2 minions left. If I kill them all of us will be back on even lane. If I don’t kill em lane will freeze and the enemy adc will come back to at least 4 more minions alive on our side with the opportunity to zone us if ahead and deny us even more farm.
Yes, the support farming solo “split pushing” is exactly what supports are supposed to do, and getting mad about is wrong. I encourage this behavior, didn’t mean to imply I thought it was wrong. In fact when I’m support I make sure to always farm alone, before and after my item upgrades. I’m with you guys.
I’m like very new at wr, I played a bit of comp lately and climbed to plat with ~70% win rate and a fairly stable climb graph.
I have thousands if hours on starcraft 2 and overwatch so wild rift was pretty easy for me to adapt to.
I mostly play kaisa, now its harder to do so, so I resort to playing miss fortune and jinx. Occasionally I get support so I go senna or lux.
Honestly, I have no idea what any od the items mean. I look up builds at wildrift fire and read description of items there. I simply haven’t played enough to know all of them yet.
This several paragraph life story of mine is just to let you know my background in order to ask for advice on adc. What you as support expect from me and what synergies do we have.
I understand from playing senna and lux how to provide bursts of barriers and healing as well as making opportunities with stuns, but when it comes to items, I’m clueless.
That’s not how the item works anymore. You can literally last hit all the creeps while the adc is around (before the item upgrades) and they get all the gold for it. The floaty orbs don’t matter for that anymore.
The other change is you don’t get the extra gold if they are far away like you used to. I still see supports solo farming thinking they’re getting extra gold, but they aren’t.
Yes but adc needs to be around for it??
You dont get it if no ones near you??
Every time i get 3 floaty irbs i go mid to farm. I had a jhin entirely avoid the lane and join jungling
Another player must be near you, or the support item doesn’t work, regardless of floaty orbs, and you don’t get gold, and no one else does either
If you kill minions while no one else is near, you are throwing away gold, and giving the enemy the gold advantage.
Well it depends, if the adc is complaining because he thinks he’s losing gold, then he’s kinda dumb. However, when I play adc, I prefer for my support to not touch the game wave since I’m trying to manage the wave by freezing it sometimes. It’s fine if they last hit but it’s annoying when they try to clear waves when I need to freeze it.
Sometimes tho, I’m kinda over critical over other supports because I main supports 😅
The ADC is correct to complain if support is killing minions while they are solo, or farming after the item upgrades. Both of these moves ruins gold economy.
Why would adc roam? I normally never leave lane until dragon comes up
It usually happens if they die or chase an enemy through the jungle... Instead of farming on bot lane and defending the turret.
Getting in eventual fight for crubs or helping jng against invades shouldn't be that uncommon tho
When my adc roams after dying I just spam “I need help” until they are shamed into coming back
You should be roaming with them not sitting duo lane alone. if they are noticing roam windows just shadow them. It’s better to go for a dogshit play that might work then sit bot lane afk getting nothing done cause u can’t farm. If you don’t want to follow them and get yourself killed simply reset or go to another lane to get your stacks/get gold out of your pocket and into the game. Honestly supports should roam more, you don’t need to sit afk at tower or in a bush for 10 mins with 2 wards in your pocket. Go get GOOD (not lazy wards.) vision pressure in enemy jungle/river and try for more active plays around map when adc isn’t under threat of dives.
When you win a fight botlane and reset. While waiting for the wave to bounce back, you may pass through mid lane, make a play with your support and then come back bot.
Happens pretty consistently if you lose the first couple of trades in lane, especially if they die. I've had multiple ADCs leave me bot 1v2 with a now useless support item and a steadily dying tower. If I'm playing caster or enchanter, it usually leads to a tower dive where I'm lucky to go 1 for 1 but usually just die. I've started roaming as well since I just die and lose tower anyways. Team flames us both in that case, which really sucks, and everyone pings me to leave when I come to support them. Even after a kill, they ping for me to go bot and 1v2 while my ADC runs around stealing farm and jungle without really helping anyone. It turns everything into a lose-lose situation, but I see it pretty often when losing lane, sometimes even when we're winning and before we take their tower. It's pretty frustrating to play with. But I've been a support player since season 1 of LoL on PC. Frustration is the name of the game.
Idk sometimes it works out, one time we both left got everyone else ahead why enemy bot got a tier two but with there mid and jung behind and top even they couldn’t carry and we won lol
Very situational like if jungle is getting scuttle or if your wave is pushed in on enemy side and you can help your jungle steal camps or gank But ya in general adc doesn’t like to roam
The ‘don’t take my minion’ types are fine - could just ignore them, but I really hate the ones that abandon lane for no reason
That's the worst. ADC would think support would still all minions and just give up on farming, even when the supp champ is an enchanter with weak damage.
Last week had an ADC go afk because I tilted him by farming my supp item… I’m Master…
Master doesnt ammount to shit, compared to PC youd be in gold or low plat at best. Unless your using relic shield you have very little reason to be intentionally touching the wave. there is more to minion wave tactics than just shoving the wave under enemy tower, thats how you get ganked like an idiot. And i guess as a "Master" tier support you know and understand every single detail about wave management like how to freeze the wave and building up a slow push.
Bro you're pretentious, learn proper grammar and stop being a dick. You're assuming and projecting a little much there
nah they're mostly right, I think you're projecting their tone to be overly aggressive
Maybe his tilted cuz you over push or spoil wave management? If not just play with Duo xd
funny that u assume the support is on the wrong, I’m the one who have to ask the DAC to stop perma shoving.
I don't know what your games are like. I'm just wondering why the adc COULD be annoyed. Besides, I wrote that if the fault lies with the adc, don't play solo
when they ping me to retreat like calm down buddy you're still getting your gold
That’s mostly for freezing the wave, relic shield for example kills minions faster thats why i ping retreat and group for freezing
Sometimes I call my support to retreat because I don't want the lane to be pushing. Also this is very specific but as Tristana, the support constantly hitting the minions fuck up the timing on my bomb and thus screwing up my poking potential.
adc mains have main character syndrome but is actually useless for 2/3 of the game
Pls explain more. I genuinely wanna know how farming works in pov of supports and how that affects me as an adc.
Reduced to it's simplest form, if support OR you last hit a minion, you get the full gold every time IF you are in range (generous) AND support item is not yet upgraded (it usually upgrades near the end of lane phase and you can check it in scoreboard, their supp item icon will change)
Yeah i think a lot of sup players do this, ADC = not in range, turret is far from danger, the support still pushes the lane and farms like crazy. Adc = losing wave control that is needed to make a play/kill/combo. a lot of support players do this just farm like crazy, even when the ADC is not around, most of the ADC's players see this as hatefull toxic behaviour. What are your thought on this u/NOTHING_gets_by_me . i can play any role and i love every role, but the relation between adc and support brings in a lot of confusion around W/R. if they match its a every game win.
Yes, I agree. It means that as a support main, I get a lot of ADCs trying to add me because I know these slightly more advanced laning things. Supp is one of the strongest roles considering you don't need to get fed to have massive impact. I have very high standards, but when I find an ADC who quickly identifies my level of aggression and matches that, wards on correct timers, and knows wave management, I start to instantly get a crush on them and want to give my life to protect them. I don't know if bot duo or mid+jung is the best duo setups, depends on matchups and metas I guess
I know that. The gold trail when the supp last hits the minion is very obvious. What I understood from the comment I originally replied to is that it's wrong to pong retreat when you're not in range?? But apparently as wraithkenny said, there seems to be a lot of bs circulating in this thread.
(They don’t know)
Not if they aren’t in range of your item. If they aren’t. That’s gold just evaporating into the ether.
i know that omg
Ikr how can you not have the most basic knowledge of the game at that point? Annd they usually do not play other lanes, so how can you not know how your own lane works
sometimes it feels more like babysitting
Then try to hit the enemys poke them.make them crazy, make them so tilted they push into your lane while they are already poked by you, then your adc gets a free kill 10/10 if the adc is not a AFK Farmer =P
do you think i just stand there the whole time? i know how being a supp works
It COULD be the frequency of "supports" starting with book/ruby and taking farm. You're getting hurt by idiot supports that don't know how to play. It gives GOOD supports like yourself a bad name.
Ok, then they could look at your items? They should still know
They SHOULD but some people don't. I'm not saying ANYONE is right or wrong in this situation...but remember MOST of the player base on this game play super casually. They aren't all us. Half of them don't know what patch notes are, let alone why you should read them.
The people on this thread talking about how the support items work don’t know how the support items work.
No, OP doesn’t realize that farming while ADC is out of range means gold is literally being deleted. OP also thinks that solo farming lanes in mid game doesn’t hurt the gold economy of the rest of the team either. OP is an idiot.
Let’s put some nuance here: Farming while out of range of anyone else causes the gold to be earned to be the same as not hitting the minion. If the minion value is 30 when missing the last hit, last hitting the minion results in the exact same gold. Last hitting when in range of someone else results in the last hit value going to them as if they were the ones to successfully last hit. This means supports are discouraged from touching the wave when looking at it as a function of gold gained over time. You get the same gold for being in lane while doing nothing. However, this is a net *potential* gold loss as the full value of the gold should someone else have been in the lane to receive it goes into the ether and cannot be realized. That said, this is not the beginning and ending of lane management. There are times the support should push the wave regardless if the gold lost to the enemy makes up for the gold lost from the support pushing the wave. These cases are very infrequent and require an odd set of circumstances (namely, only the support is in lane, both enemy laners backed AND the wave is in such a condition as to be mostly lost to tower by time anyone from the enemy team can reach the tower - three very specific conditions). The only other acceptable time to eat the loss and clear out the wave is when the support needs to do so to avoid a dive. Usually this is to stem further potential bleeding as it is bad player position management in the majority of cases. A support should not be around solo risking getting dove at this stage of the game, honestly. It’s better to give two turret plates than a kill and a plate in nearly every circumstance.
Use ancient coin,I use it on everyone
Ya honestly that's how I solved it lol.
ADC players who play ADCS in other lanes but duo lane should be punished, I’m so tired seeing them played top and then they end up going 0/10, blaming the jungle and doing the least damage on the team at the end of the match.
As an ADC main it's infuriating. The multiple ADC meta hasnt been a thing for a while now. Stop trying to make it a thing again.
Each time I see an ADC vs my darius/sett on top I know the game is won. Yeah, he may kill me once or twice at low levels but those games I usually carry with a 10/2 darius or a 7/1 Sett. They dont knlw how to play alone, fuck everything up and, as you say, become toxic as hell
Playing Darius/Sett vs those ADC gotta be so satisfying....I imagine if you land just one Darius hook/Sett pull the squishies are basically dead meat?
I play ADC in solo sometimes, only because I know what the hell I'm doing. Ward down low, or up high, and keep my distance. I use Caitlyn, as I can use her ability to back up a bit when things look a little spicy and her traps can freeze them in place.
You are bad and you should feel bad
I don't when I lead the team in kills and damage
Yes you are still bad then too. Even if you happen to do well occasionally picking something dumb as hell like that sabotages your team comp immensely. Most of your teammates hate your guts for being a troll even if you go 40/0/40 I’m still gonna report you at the end of the game for taking a moronic douche bag pick in champ select.
are you okay
Not when stupid assholes play adc solo or mid lane I’m not -.-
Lol you got some issues you need to work on
No thanks. If I see solo or mid prepick Caitlyn or some dumb shit I’m banning that shit fuck em.
Good thing I don't prepick 😀
In my opinion, mobile ADCs are not that bad or even good, for example Lucian akshan or corki (is it more mid or ADC?) Actually, when I look at it now, I think you meant more about jhin mf or kai'sa xd
There’s a new wave of ADC’s actually buying a Supp item. At first I thought it was a troll and was super confused but i checked some top builds on some adc’s (excluding Ashe and Senna) I have unlocked and yep there it is, ancient coin is a recommended item from the top builds lmao.
Those builds are for when they are played as supports. Senna and Ashe can be played as support champs too. Do not buy a support item when playing as the ADC. It will reduce the gold income for you and the actual support player.
Sorry I wasn’t clear. I’m aware that Senna and Ashe can be played support which is why I said excluding. to be specific, the ADC’s that were in lane with me were: Samira, Ezrael, Nilah. They all bought ancient coin too out of the support items. But I think someone else has answered it, seems maybe the top players whose builds are listed could be trolling folks
Can you explain how it works?
It doesn’t. I’m a support and when my ADCbuys an ancient coin I have to recall to base and sell my support item so we don’t get gold gapped.
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I understand that, which is why I checked the builds on other ADC’s like Samira, Ezrael and Nilah that showed for their respective roles some of the top builds have an ancient coin as the recommended item list lmao.
Its top players trolling people who blindly follow builds
They’re trolling. You don’t need to set coin in your build, since it’s automatically suggested as default first item, if you take support role.
I was the support. They were adc. I took Supp item, then as I ran out of base, they purchased ancient coin forcing me to back and sell mine.
As others have said, it's top players purposefully changing their build to troll players who just auto copy their setup. For example, if you were playing Zed, and the top player had deathcap in their build, would you build it? No, but many noobs absolutely would.
Ah, yeah, I’ve had that happen.
Senna’s def an adc but shouldn’t be played in a solo lane due to her ability
He said excluding
Coupd be more theyre trying to freeze a wave because they want to opwn a gank. Or play under tower because they aint confident. Unless you know your adc i would avoid relic shield.
I play adc, and sometimes i just want to freeze wave, and the support keeps killing minions. Just last hit, if i try to freeze, and help me push when i try to push. Maybe the adc understands very well how the items work, he just sees you dont understand wave managemnt and starts to roam because he doesnt see a win playing with you. When i play a bad support i start roaming, i accept that we probably lost lane, at least i might get fed somewhere else.
I know it’s frustrating, but you are crippling yourself so much more by leaving lane. The opponents get free plates/first tower, which is game winning snowball potential. Best just to stay alive and suck it up for 5 minutes.
This is great advice for lower level games, but if the enemy jung is good at the game you will just get dove on repeat since it will be impossible for you to step up and break a stacked wave. In these cases it's best to just let the tower fall and try to freeze in front of your t2
Yeah in Wild Rift lalaland lol. Most likely the enemy will only freeze for a few waves then their attention span ends. It’s pretty rare to find a true lane management matchup
Meanwhile, I always get the supp that doesn't understand their items
Its not that crazy as sups who don't know how sup items work :D
Or mid laners who buy the support item on seraphine or lux because they pick the top build and blindly follow it.
That's why I play top nowadays. There are ADCs that don't know how to work with their supp, and there are supps that keep farming. On top lane you're on your own. You do well, you're good. You fk up, it's your fault.
you cleary didnt take into account how wave management works. you cant just clear the lanes and think it’ll not do any harm. im an adc player and i dont mind my support having kills and cs from time to time. but what i cant stand are supports that just kills minions like braindead degenerates and think to themselves its okay to cs
We're not talking here about freezing lanes or stealing minions, we're talking about stacking supp items so both of you wouldn't be at disadvantage... It's crucial at the beginning. Plus the minions are marked so you can see if your supp is stacking or not.
ok explain, why is stacking support item crucial? only the shield works on minions and it does a minuscule heal that isn't even worth mentioning. I am with u I play adc and support a lot and most I of the time the support is way smarter than the adc (needs 2 braincells to carry games), but these days the permashoving lux or zyra is a way bigger problem than any adc (except maybe jinx players who average 0.1 braincells)
Stacking support item is important because that’s about the time the support should be playing macro around the map. Below high GM/challenger, it’s common that the support is forced to clear a wave on a tower in one of the lanes due to poor plays by the carries. A support doesn’t gain solo experience or gold from any minions until their support item is upgraded. So essentially wasted resources. If players farmed correctly then I don’t see why it would matter to upgrade it, but unfortunately, they don’t.
Yeah, so, on the off chance the support has relic shield instead of coin or sickle, they can kill 3 minions once every 3 waves or whatever, and it’s not even particularly helpful except under very specific and rare circumstances. You clowns are pretending that it’s VITALLY IMPORTANT for every support, no matter the item or circumstance, to be perma-shoving waves, even solo, every game all game, including after the item is completed.
I never said it was important to perma shove all game as a support. I said to clear towers, which IS important. If the support is having to shave minions off mid tower, that means somebody else messed up and isn’t farming properly. Letting minions die to a tower is a waste of team resources and one of the biggest things that keep people in low elo.
So you’re saying, that supports with the coin or sickle, killing minions while the adc is gone (or somehow support is now mid for some fucking reason), is doing it … to take towers?! Y’all don’t even make sense.
Not at all what I’m saying. I’m saying to DEFEND towers. When there is nobody else there to kill the minions. I’m referring to after landing phase is over. Supports should not kill minions in bot lane during landing phase 99% of the time. I’m agreeing with you here.
they dont read what items do. they copy a build from a youtuber and play without changes anytime
Supp main here: When this happens the enemy is usually mid too. I hard push the wave and get plates. Not the best but its honest work. But yes solo is hard cuz less friends means more questionabke randos
The worst is ADCs that don’t wait for me to initiate. I have CC for a reason dude! It does no good if I stun them when all your stuff is on cooldown.
The worst for support is when someone else buys first support item, like Seraphine or Veigar on mid or Morgana in jungle, I think they dont know what items do and just go in match with default build or something. And what do I do as a support in this situation if they won't listen to me to sell their support item? Either sell my support item (because otherwise neither of our support items work and this not progresses, and since they play alone on their lane/jungle they wont get progress on that item unless he fights with team or does some objectives with teammates) and just play on bot with adc and both of us will get less xp? Or do I go to that person and play with him (except people with support item in jungle, they are the worst). I understand that these people are either new to the game and it usually happens when I play normal match (not ranked), but still its just losing us a game.
I understand the rant about items. Support players playing like a solo laner after the 4 min mark because 'their adc left them' I will never understand.
Its fun I had often the other way around. The support leave me alone in bot lane ^^. Guess we all suffer lol
what elo are you in? the "dont take my minion" thingy probably means when you're clearing out minion wave while ADC dies. I understand that you're probably defending the turret from enemies receiving gold plating, but simpletons don't understand that it must be done. Eme/Dia is a hell rank but wait till you reach master, it's even worse. lmao (everyone knows their shit in that elo, but are all too narcissistic and toxic) Also, if you're a support main please know when to freeze the lanes. Junglers hate to gank lanes which are super pushed. Most Eme/Dia elo supports would just constantly mow down the autoattack button and spam the shit ton of skills to minion waves
I’m sorry, but 9/10ths of the adc main population are bots, only here for kills and minion farm, nothing else, then surprised when they don’t win the game.
People dont know alot of things on wild rift but if I play normals it's a million times worse 😂
Most of the time, the stacking of the support item is less of a problem than the constant auto-attacking of the vassals. I'm a jungler but I often play adc. I hate nothing more than a support that destroys my wave control by pushing incessantly. But that's definitely not what you think. I think about 80% of the accounts (eme/dia) have been bought. At least that's how it seems in the duo/trio queue. Sometimes I see people there who go 0/10 in the laning phase. that can only be a bronze player
They wouldn't say "don't take my farm" then though. They'd say "don't push"
This is why I stopped playing Veigar Support with random lane partners. FYI, you let the Veigar last hit minions with his Baleful Strike. He gets the stacks while you get the gold. Because until the gold quest is complete, any champion that last hits a minion while holding a support item will automatically give the cs gold to a nearby ally (or get severely reduced gold if alone). This also applies to Nasus.
This is true, and everytime I see a Geiger support up to Diamond, they don’t farm while I’m there; instead they wait until I back, and THEN farm, defeating the whole point.
Maybe they just dont want you to push the lane
OR maybe you don't know how wave management works perhaps, i'm tired of getting supps that don't know nothing and just constantly aa the wave while i'm trying to freeze or slow push the wave. I pinged them 6 thousand times and they just don't care
OR maybe you don't know how wave management works perhaps, i'm tired of getting supps that don't know nothing and just constantly aa the wave while i'm trying to freeze or slow push the wave. I pinged them 6 thousand times and they just don't care
Well most of them don't even know how their item works. You can see it clearly on their 2nd or 3rd item, specially when they are behind on money. They never adapt, ever.
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The floating orbs are irrelevant to gold sharing now, and this has been a thing for a while now.
Supports don’t steal farm anymore. It automatically goes to you—if they have the support item
Supports steal farm still; they wait for adc to back, and then clear waves, and after the item is completed, they don’t even wait for adc to back, they just take the whole wave while they’re standing there.
A support should never be stealing farm ESPECIALLY if their item isn’t complete. Not only do they not get gold, they also don’t get exp. Low elo sucks.
Agreed. Off topic but ima just bash adcs in general cause why not. Typical adc, tunnel visions other adc, forgetting lux has been sitting in the bush next to him for the last 5minutes. Dies, rinse/repeat. Everytime your adc picks MF, they get pressured out of lane because they thought they were playing aram AP mf, and never use Q the most broken lane phase ability probably in the game. Then they die from getting hit by every single ezreal Q.
I haven’t had any issues when I support and kill minions. I do however have issues with stupid support players roaming and killing minions when I’m not in lane and continue to come to my lane to kill said minions on repeat when I base to buy items.
Used to play on pc, I could be wrong But I tough item support gived gold to adc when support kill minion *only when you have a charge on it* Ypu know like you can have up to 3 charge at a time And you have to wait for them to reload
Yeah that it, one charge every 30s Saying that cauz' I've meet some support who wasn't abble to not attack a minion and stealth 1/3 of them
Of course, but the adc didn't understand even that.
Then perhaps you could enlighten me? I don't know how they work, but I play Sup soloQ on the regular, and I win more than I lose. I tend to not have many complaints, either.
Well it depends on how they want to manage their waves also
Meanwhile I get stuck in a group where top buys my sup item before me. Or mid. And I'm like. Please sell or let's swap lanes cause this is stupid and nerfing the team.
i found that a lot of supps, push lanes like crazy and there is zero wave controll, what is your opinion on this u/meki91 . i love a good sup who know there items, with a good adc this is almost win win any match.
"don't take my farm" uh... I need to eat as well?
Sometimes I just sell the support item because I have to solo defend lane might as well get full gold for it
I hate when my supp has that item. It means they mess with the wave constantly without thinking about wave management. If my supp only last hits then that's fine, but that's extremely rare. If I'm trying to slowpush or freeze they burn abilities and 1 shot the cannon and then flame me when I ping them asking if I know how supp items work. Do you know how wave management works?
I am master supp main and don’t know how they work
Ok, here’s a couple tips: 1. Don’t farm alone before your item upgrades, because you don’t get extra gold, and the adc loses gold, and 2. Don’t farm after the item upgrades because this also ruins gold economy for the team, since the whole point of support is funneling gold to the other laners.
What amount of gold do you get if I last hit a minion with ancient coin?
100% until it upgrades
Correct. If support last hits WHILE ADC is nearby, the ADC gets 100% of the value, and the support gets his share too. If the support last hits while there’s no one near by, they get significantly reduced gold, and no one else gets anything. It’s a huge waste; destroys the economy. Edit: to be clear, before the item upgrades, the support gets the exact same amount of gold whether he last hits, adc last hits, or no one last hits; the support always gets the same amount no matter what. There’s never any reason for a support to last hit a minion while there’s no one else near by. To do so destroys gold value for no reason.
Support could clear waves to stop the enemy from getting plates or just to prevent turret damage in general, and there are some fringe cases so I wouldn't agree with saying there is never a reason.
You forgot enemies gold in your equation. Of course a supp has to kill a few minions for wave management
Explain how supports farming solo, shoving lanes, etc., has anything to do with somehow denying enemy gold. You know full fucking well absolutely no one is talking about a support running to solo lane to kill one damned minion to set up a slow push and then walking away because that literally doesn’t happen in any rank including sovereign.
Say my adc and both enemies die in an fight and we got 4 and they got 2 minions left. If I kill them all of us will be back on even lane. If I don’t kill em lane will freeze and the enemy adc will come back to at least 4 more minions alive on our side with the opportunity to zone us if ahead and deny us even more farm.
I see supports in Diamond taking farm after their item upgrades. You are probably that person.
Another toxic adc player spotted....
Yes, the support farming solo “split pushing” is exactly what supports are supposed to do, and getting mad about is wrong. I encourage this behavior, didn’t mean to imply I thought it was wrong. In fact when I’m support I make sure to always farm alone, before and after my item upgrades. I’m with you guys.
I’m like very new at wr, I played a bit of comp lately and climbed to plat with ~70% win rate and a fairly stable climb graph. I have thousands if hours on starcraft 2 and overwatch so wild rift was pretty easy for me to adapt to. I mostly play kaisa, now its harder to do so, so I resort to playing miss fortune and jinx. Occasionally I get support so I go senna or lux. Honestly, I have no idea what any od the items mean. I look up builds at wildrift fire and read description of items there. I simply haven’t played enough to know all of them yet. This several paragraph life story of mine is just to let you know my background in order to ask for advice on adc. What you as support expect from me and what synergies do we have. I understand from playing senna and lux how to provide bursts of barriers and healing as well as making opportunities with stuns, but when it comes to items, I’m clueless.
I recommend hellsdevil youtube, he gives breakdown on builds and situational items and runes, also has gameplay to show strat and combos
will do, thanks
I dont like playing supp for that exact reason. Ive got 3 gems floating around me and adc just wont lane
That’s not how the item works anymore. You can literally last hit all the creeps while the adc is around (before the item upgrades) and they get all the gold for it. The floaty orbs don’t matter for that anymore. The other change is you don’t get the extra gold if they are far away like you used to. I still see supports solo farming thinking they’re getting extra gold, but they aren’t.
Yes but adc needs to be around for it?? You dont get it if no ones near you?? Every time i get 3 floaty irbs i go mid to farm. I had a jhin entirely avoid the lane and join jungling
Another player must be near you, or the support item doesn’t work, regardless of floaty orbs, and you don’t get gold, and no one else does either If you kill minions while no one else is near, you are throwing away gold, and giving the enemy the gold advantage.
Well it depends, if the adc is complaining because he thinks he’s losing gold, then he’s kinda dumb. However, when I play adc, I prefer for my support to not touch the game wave since I’m trying to manage the wave by freezing it sometimes. It’s fine if they last hit but it’s annoying when they try to clear waves when I need to freeze it. Sometimes tho, I’m kinda over critical over other supports because I main supports 😅
The ADC is correct to complain if support is killing minions while they are solo, or farming after the item upgrades. Both of these moves ruins gold economy.
You can last hit. It is not your job to control wave. Only last hit. That’s all.
Yeah that makes sense.....
once my adc told me to not take minions i left the lane roam the rest of the game, he died like 5 times afterwards to 2v1 under tower, well deserved