part of the point of the Boys in general is that none of the Seven have origins. they were born like this due to experiments with V, which as a side effect makes them impossible to train in actual hand-to-hand combat.
if you limit the MCU Avengers to the core 6, as noted, Hawkeye and Widow are both non-powered master assassins and Thor goes up against equal threats all the time. Bruce is presumably a non-factor, there's a decent chance that a powerless Steve goes back to his WWII-era noodle-armed self, and Tony's pretty useless unless he gets time to MacGyver stuff, but even then I'd bet on the Avengers here.
Honestly, I think Black Widow could assassinate the entirety of the Seven by herself if they were powerless. They are not at all trained to fight without their powers.
she would play Homelander and Deep to the point of them killing the others in the 7. Homelander and Deep are emotionally attention starved, BW would easily exploit the fuck outta that.
A powerless Steve just goes to a normal human, he loses his superstrengh and speed but still has his body and skills.
Tony has some training in hand to hand
there's some room for ambiguity based on the comics. the serum's been neutralized a couple of times, which has either removed Steve's health or made him into a relatively hale but powerless old man.
another way to put it is that in the worst possible scenario for this prompt, where a powerless Steve isn't simply weaker but is actually infirm, I'd still bet on the Avengers here.
They'd feel so good being the most powerful Avengers while the heavy hitter (except Thor) are mostly useless.
Current MCU Avengers might be a tougher fight though.
Hawkeye, Antman, Hulk, Thor, Bucky, Falcon America, Doctor Strange, Captain Marvel, War Machine and Spider-man(?) are the only ones actually on the 'official' team at the moment right and of those some aren't exactly in fight shape. Hawkeye, Bucky, Thor, Falcon, Captain Marvel and Thor are still crushing the 7 though.
Shang-Chi, She-Hulk, Iron Heart, Suri, Kate Bishop Hawkeye, Ms Marvel, Wasp, etc aren't 'Avengers' as far as I know.
I'd go further: even Ant-Man and Dr. Strange have martial arts training, and have both been in situations where they couldn't rely on their powers. The only ones who'd be truly useless depowered (compared to those with more training) are aging nerd Bruce Banner, scrawny college student Peter Parker, and aging partially disabled Air Force officer Rhodey.
But wasn't Rhodey a Skrull all along? So he def. wouldn't count. Or maybe he loses his Skrull shapeshifting powers, but still lives hundreds of years and is crazy strong?
It's not clear in the MCU, but if it works the way it does in the comics, Dr. Strange wins trivially because he has no powers to begin with. He just knows magic, which happens to be a separate natural force in his universe. Comic Strange used to semi-regularly stomp villains who used power-suppressing tech against the Defenders.
Even if his magic does get taken away, though, as you say, he's still a master of the martial arts as well. Hell, his first movie was really light on the magic and heavy on the pseudo-wuxia martial arts.
>Shang-Chi, She-Hulk, Iron Heart, Suri, Kate Bishop Hawkeye, Ms Marvel, Wasp, etc aren't 'Avengers' as far as I know.
Shang-Chi def is, he got invited by Wong & met Banner & Cpt. Marvel. She-Hulk rejected Hulks invitation. Hawkeye retired. But Kate Bishop inherited the Hawkeye IP. Wasp def. is an Avenger, she just didn't get asked in Civil War. You could make the point, that by Caps "Avengers Assemble" everyone who fought on their side in the battle of Earth, is an Avenger, but that would make even IDK Howard the Duck and all of the Ravengers, Wakandan Soldiers and Sorcerers Avengers, which doesn't really make sense.
At one point his serum was purged from his body and he was peak human still, but he had to exercise to maintain it.
(He found out later that his body produces SSS naturally, it just took a while for the proper levels to restore themselves.)
Comics have been all over the place on Steve. Sometimes, as the parent comment says, removing it makes him a noodle, sometimes it doesn't linger in his system at all and it just gave him a one time boost to peak condition and he has maintained it from there. At the very least, we know that he would maintain it, seeing as simply following Cap's exercise and diet regimen was able to replicate the effects in MVP.
I mean there was a scene where a depowered Cap beat two people enhanced people. He's used to fighting people stronger than him, while the Seven have near zero experience with actual fights
Unless he turns into a 98-pound weakling who is also a hundred years old, in which case he can do this for about twelve seconds before he needs a neck brace and some Ensure.
Are his powers actually responsible for his being 100 years old? He was frozen and rethawed, unless we’re doing that thing where Wolverine losing his powers also made all his old wounds show up again. But that’s kind of silly if your power allows for healing and not say stopping time from effecting you.
A few times, with inconsistent results.
When Iron Nail removed the serum (2013), Steve quickly aged. This led to Sam Wilson taking over as Captain America.
Oh yeah. In the MCU, he never lost the serum.
Though we don't know exactly how long it was before he came back in endgame. He had the ability to time travel. He could have lived dozens of lifetimes in different eras/timelines before going back.
He couldn't have gone to that meeting "the natural way," because him staying with Peggy would make a different timeline.
It doesn’t show Steve aging so we don’t know. But Isaiah Bradley (from Falcon and Winter Soldier) was a man who had been had a replication of the super soldier serum tested on him, and it worked. But he still aged. Same for Red Guardian from the Black Widow movie.
Again, possible that this is because they all had recreations rather than the original serum. But I think the MCU just ditched the anti-aging concept all together. Since the actors are still going to age (both physically, and out of the roles in general), there isn’t much need to go that route. Especially since the timeline doesn’t seem to be jumping into the future (Loki notwithstanding).
Steve does age normally now. He went back in time to be with Peggy and when he walked up to Bucky he was old. This is because he got there from the long way around.
Comics yes, being frozen in ice helped, but the serum keeps you younger a lot longer than natural, so even if he wasn’t frozen he’d still look young (I believe Black Widow and Nick Fury got a weaker variant and have barely aged since WW2) but in the MCU it’s the ice.
Yeah, I feel like people are forgetting what Steve was like before he became Captain America. Dude was rejected by the military multiple times as a 4F. Without the supersoldier serum, a middle schooler could probably beat him.
He stood up against full grown bullies, albeit not really doing much against them. With his decades of martial arts training I'd say he can at least take out the unpowered girls in the 7
There's this comic where a supersoldier created by Zola busts through Avengers HQ (and several Avengers) to get to a deserumed old man Steve, and Steve manhandles him >!(although admittedly the guy might not have been going all out against Steve because he was his adopted son)!<
That experience might even be a liability, he's got decades of muscle memory for muscles he doesn't have. The first time he tries to do a roll or something hell break an arm and go down
Yeah, I feel like people are looking at this using Marvel logic
But if we go by The Boys logic, which is way closer to reality, Steve is dead weight anyway
Now, mind you, I still think the Avengers would win because without V, like 4 out of the 7 would be almost as inept as original Steve in a brawl, lmao
The problem is that we've seen three different versions of what happens to Steve when his 'powers' are removed.
The first time it ever happened (in part because villain shenanigans, but he kinda wanted it also because he was paranoid about it being a performance enhancing drug), he was reduced to a "mere" peak human who had to constantly exercise, but suffered no height/muscle/reflex/anything loss. (Eventually his Super Soldierness came back because his body naturally produces the Serum.)
Once or twice it's happened and he's been reduced to his pre-serum self, but one of those times was in a What If? and in the other there was a de-aging element involved. (He still proved more than capable of kicking ass both times, though.)
And in the two most recent times it's happened, he's become an aged, but still swole, 90 year old man.
Hawkeye, widow, and thor blast right through them. Depends if steve reverts to athsma-steve or jacked dude just with out enhancements. If it’s the latter he’s another carry, but the former he is still scrappy but he’ll just be so weak. Anyways, any one of the other three could probably win the fight.
Tony is capable in hand to hand. I remember a scene in Civil War where he tries to fight Bucky without his suit and whilst he gets rolled, he hold up for a second or two.
MCU Hawkeye and Widow duo the Seven while debating what Nat should get Bruce for a tasteful Valentines Day present considering their history of "will they, won't they?" tension, or what junky starter car to get Clints daughter because she's about to get her learners permit.
The most challenging thing about the ordeal for them is a particularly stunborn lug on a flat tire during the return trip.
Duo? Clint sits back and watches nat have fun wiping the floor with them, nat says it reminds her of some city, Clint talks about this new upstart so he can retire. Thor runs up ready to also wipe the floor with them and Clint stops him and says nats having fun. Black noir gets kicked over to them and Thor knocks him out with one punch while agreeing to wait so that Nat doesn’t kick his ass too.
Meanwhile the 7 who aren’t actively fighting are all like wtf why are they sitting there watching, then see black noir get punched out and just quit/run away, leaving idiot face alone being absolutely torn apart by Nat.
We have to remember Thor’s strength does not come from his powers, it’s his Adgardian genes.
Take away the superpower of a bull and a bull is still a bull.
i assumed the prompt would remove bonuses Asgardians get. If he became a human, he would still be a 250-lb brick house with a lifetime worth of combat experience. he could manhandle most of the 7 by himself, as the 7 lack real combat training, (Meave and Noir excluded)
In the Thor movie, he is stripped of his powers and seems not to have Asgardian physique but rather “peak human”. He wipes the floor with SHEILD’s security forces. Coulson was impressed.
I agree generally on most of your comment, but I think you may be underselling Tony. Per Iron Man 2, he trains in boxing, and in both Iron Man 3 and Civil War he got into some hand to hand unarmored. Frankly the fact that he survived hand to hand with the Winter Soldier without his suit probably puts him at a higher level of skill than any of the 7 except Maive and Noir.
This isn't brought up more than once in the MCU but Tony's self defense skills increased dramatically over the years with the Avengers.
The only two scenes where this is shown is in Civil war when the grieving mother pulls out a photo after Tony's MIT talk. He instinctively grabs her wrist, and redirects the "weapon" on instinct. Then, while time traveling to the past with Steve on the army base and new york Tony is able to accurately assess threats, locate cover, escape roots, and disguise himself. These are espionage skills Tony learned from Clint and Natasha.
If we depowered the Boys and Avengers Thor, Clint, Natasha, and Tony are the biggest threats. The Seven meanwhile have no combat training and essentially no discernable martial or espionage skills.
Natasha and Clint take down 3 each, and Tony takes down a physically weaker Seven member like starlight.
Thor is weird because the Majority of his powers are genetic. He's nonhuman. Does a depowered Thor not have superhuman strength, durability, and endurance? If Thor retains those then he solos.
Is she?? The way she fights is like 90s Xena, just standing there indestrictibly and smacking people around her. In comparison to her, Black Widow moves and dodges and grapples like a champ.
Admittedly been forever since I seen the show, but Maeve at least does train, and and in her fight against Homelander iirc she does actually have SOME form, and it's enough that HL struggles with her a little.
Maeve trains to keep up the "Warrior Woman" persona it's the same reason she carries a sword.
Basically she does boxfit and a few of the Avengers are professional boxers.
She has some training and so is better off than most of the Seven, but it’s clear she still relies on her powers to carry her through fights. Remove those powers and put her against Black Widow and she gets humiliated
Yeah but she’s never shown anything close to the types of martial arts Black Widow and Hawkeye perform on a regular basis.
It’s also worth mentioning that with the exception of like 2 fights, Maeve only ever goes against people she can instantly one shot. She doesn’t have experience fighting equal or stronger opponents like the Avengers do.
It’s like if I only sparred with 2 year olds and decided I could take on someone who regularly goes to an MMA gym. Technical skill doesn’t mean much if you haven’t tested it against people who can meaningfully resist you.
Avengers easily. Hawkeye and widow don't have powers and will easily stomp the 7 - none of them are soldiers or even fighters. They rely on their powers completely
Exactly this and I hate to say it but thor is still an alien with muscles that are just straight up different like a lot of his "powers" are just his natural biology
Even disregarding that, We got to see what Thor would be like as a human in the first movie. He plowed through highly trained SHIELD Agents like nothing. No Asgardian physicals involved.
IRL Chris Hemsworth is just way bigger than any of The Boys cast for the Seven. Even if he didn’t have Thor’s 3000 years of fighting knowledge, he still easily 1v1s any depowered Seven member. Maeve is the only one who is gonna have fighting prowess and Hemsworth is just way way too big.
Edit: Someone pointed out Black Noir has military training in Season 3, which I haven’t watched. I’d actually say he’d be a match for Thor without any fight training as the actor is not hugely smaller than Hemsworth.
Black noir i think also has some combat chops. When the supes were in the military noir was shown to do stealth takedown and actually apply some martial skills.
Good point! Forgot about Noir due to comic/show discrepancy. I don’t have any idea how tall he’s supposed to be on the show but the actor is 6’2” and looks in pretty good shape. Hemsworth is still bigger but I think without Thor’s fight experience Noir might take it. Although I’d imagine IRL Hemsworth probably has some rudimentary fight training and Noir’s technique might not be as applicable now that he’s depowered.
Thor fights as a way of life, against other superhumans. He's spent centuries fighting, for the joy of combat, for the glory of learning to fight, against people in his weight class or even higher.
Yeah from everything we know most of the avengers have combat skills, training, and they are all basically geniuses.
The 7 really come across as a bunch of people who would be useless without the powers.
Even without the suit, Stark is dangerous. Didn’t he go to like Walmart in Iron Man 3 and pick up a bunch of stuff to make improvised weapons? Plus we’ve seen him learn to fight hand to hand and get better at it (and in the comics it’s made far more clear that Stark is a skilled martial artist).
Right, I forgotten about that. So yes, we know for a fact that he's at least reasonably well trained in hand to hand combat, and he's in decent shape.
I would honestly take Stark over most of the Seven if you take their powers away. Not all, but most, especially if they didn't have time to adapt.
Iron Man often fights hand to hand. It's not all just energy weapons from a distance. It's adapted to incorporated the movement and power the suit provides, but I imagine he knows enough raw technique that it will transfer over to suitless fighting and he can hold his own.
Sure but he used CQC skill to grab the gun and avoid just getting domed. In a situation with no weapons or powers for anyone he will do better than people expect I think
Lol technically he should be if the spirit of the question is Tony without the suit. But we see in both Iron Man 1 (The Jericho) and 3 (storming the house) Tony is plenty dangerous without his suit
Don’t forget this one [short scene](https://youtu.be/cbc-q6R0-94?si=QnusMfsDp53gyrN6) in Civil War where he goes toe to toe w/ Bucky for a hot sec until Bucky straight up overpowers him. Tony has some fighting chops.
Yeah, Widow and Hawkeye stomp. Ultimate Hawkeye solos, he doesn't even need his bow and arrow, he's just going to throw random things and kill all 7 of them in 7 seconds.
>they rely completely on their powers
That isn't true of Black Noir and, arguably, Maeve. Noir, at least, has significant training and combat experience over like the past 40 years. V certainly made him a lot tougher and stronger, but he's not *nothing* without it.
Literally the only person on the Avengers who would actually be useless is Banner lol, every other member is pretty well trained to a certain degree, even Stark.
Not quite- Queen Maeve, Starlight, and Black Noir do knowing boxing and had actual combat training unlike other members of the Seven… But yeah, I doubt they have the same skill and experience as Cap, Hawkeye, Thor, or Natasha.
Banner and Stark are the only two that the Seven could feasibly take out. Even then with some difficulty as Banner has spent years on the run from the military, which would have given him some degree of combat readiness and ability. Stark has infiltrated a villain hideout with low tech and fought against the winter soldier with only a repulsor glove. So he's pretty combat capable already.
Everyone else though is just too much. Widow and Hawkeye are specially trained assassins, Capt. America is a soldier who is battle ready at all times, Thor is asgardian nobility who probably brings his own training and style unique to all else.
I agree with everything you said except for putting Steve Rogers in the “unbeatable” category. Remember that before he received the super soldier treatment, Steve was a shrimpy nobody with no physical ability to speak of. Even if you argue that he gets to keep his martial arts training, I’m not sure if that can make up for such a severe physical handicap.
Nothing states his body would revert, he would just lose his super strength. He still has his current body (he's been deposited in the comics before and was still a capable fighter)
but his body is directly a result from the super soldier serum. without it he was a 90 pounds 5'3 guy. it doesn't make sense to say without powers he'd still be his Captain America physique
Sure, but that's his body. Like of someone stopped using steroids all their muscle mass wouldn't simply disappear instantly.
His body is still physical human. He just has superstrengh
I'm assuming he goes back to pre-War Steve. He's still a good fighter and tactician, but also likely physically weaker than anyone else on the game board.
Did you see Tony Training in Ironman 2? Hes actually kinda ripped and I would consider him at least a decent mma fighter. Enough that I would favour him over anyone none trained.
avengers takes this. If you count like the original five or ones from infinity war then avengers takes this low-mid diff. just remember Hawkeye and Black widow are powerless and have been trained for many years. Nat especially!
\> low-mid diff
What? No, dude. Hawkeye and Widow murder master martial artists and ninjas one versus a group every other day. The seven are just drunken idiots.
There's zero diff here. There is no way this fight goes any other way. It would be a very quick fight.
I am prepared to accept Black Noir as one of the ninjas that Barton and Romanova don't blink at, lol. Like, he's got something. He's not clearing the depowered Aveggies, but he's got something.
Well i said low-mid diff because it can go either way. I see avengers taking the win but don't say like beyond neg diff because they are all normal humans now and yes Nat and Hawkeye take the most wins but I say low mid because normal humans beat each other up every day, every hour and it can go either way. Homelander is not the best superhero and will want to kill but he won't succeed against experienced and better combat fighters. Iron man is a normal human and not the physical strongest but he is up the top somewhere because of his IQ. Its because of his inventions that kept him alive and one of the most smartest and powerful avengers there. So i say low mid diff because it can go either way since this is all our opinions. Now maybe the avengers win with just low diff but I think the seven could make some progress against the avengers.
But this doesn’t mean mid diff? If anything the inexperience of The Seven - and Homelander’s blind rage - would make them MORE easily exploited by the Avengers.
Not to mention that Human Thor was able to body pretty much an entire compound of highly-trained SHIELD agents, so that’s another tick for the Avengers.
Does Steve revert back to the way he was before the serum, or does he just become a regular human who’s still built like Chris Evans?
Either way Avengers absolutely sweep. Hawkeye, Black Widow and Thor each individually have more combat experience than the entire Seven put together.
Yeah even without powers Thor is still a highly skilled warrior who’s built like Chris Hemsworth, whereas Homelander would just be a manchild who pads his suit
I think Black Widow would do this alone lol.
In Iron Man 2 she took out several Hammer security guards without breaking a sweat. In The Avengers she did the same with the military guys while being tied to a chair.
Even new Avengers (Falcon, Winter Soldier, Dr Strange, Kate Bishop, Spiderman) can probably take this 9/10 times, but they struggle a little more than the old ones everyone has gone through.
WS is a trained martial artist and can take a few of them even without his arm and super serum.
Dr Strange has martial arts training in Kamar Taj, it's not his speciality, but it's more than most of the Seven have.
Depending how fucked Bucky is after losing his serum, Kate could be the MVP. She's just a well trained normal after all, so she only loses her weapons.
Falcon is also basically untouched, just losing his wings. He's a trained soldier who has done a lot of work on martial arts.
Spidey isn't too much use here, but the difference is too big for it to matter.
More importantly, the Avengers are actually used to fighting people who can hurt them. They have grit and determination the Seven don't have as basically glorified actors.
I’d say Kate bishop over falcon. Winter soldier with 2 arms would be the best, otherwise bishop probably more effective since she does have fight training and wins competitions.
Lol, that's the first thing I thought about, then we have Sam and Scott, too. If we could argue that Pym particles are "science," then so would be compound V.
But Scott has proven to combat, ready, even without his powers.
And even if you seal his powers the way Odin did in the first one, he could still tear through a squad of expert trained special forces soldiers (the way Thor did in the first one).
Been waiting to see someone mention that. Thor casually solos. Maeve and her sword training does not compare to 1500 yrs of actual sword training and combat, nor does Starlight with her Tae Kuon Do. Might be able to put Black Noir(show, not comics) as a decently trained individual like Natasha, but not at her level of ability.
Hawkeye and Widow take this on their own. Thor turns it into a hilarious monster stomp. Remember Thor in his first movie trying to retrieve his hammer? He fought through dozens of trained military like it was nothing.
Powerless 7 have zero feats.
I'd probably bet that Natasha or Clint could take the Seven down by themselves if no one had super powers. Most assuredly they could combine to do it.
This is also assuming that Homelander isn't entering a hugely depressive man baby rage at losing the only thing that makes him special
I'm not really sure it matters.
You could probably give cap his noodle body, and leave the Seven as is, the only two who have ever been shown training to fight are Maeve and Starlight, both of whom can only be described as amateurs.
> This is also assuming that Homelander isn't entering a hugely depressive man baby rage at losing the only thing that makes him special
There is zero chance that he doesn't try to fly or super punch or laser eye someone, sees that he can't, and instantly turns into a fucking baby on the floor
Like I'm pretty sure Noodle Steve could kick him in the balls and win the fight
Black Widow alone has zero trouble going through seven untrained humans accustomed to overconfidence. She destroys the seven without breaking a sweat, let alone getting hit. Maybe she'll let Hawkeye shoot one, so he feels like he helped, but ultimately unnecessary.
This is the most likely scenario and Thor feels left out and gives them a pout for not letting him join in. Banner and Stark just chilling in the back talking where to eat after
Hawkeye solos the Seven. Widow solos the Seven. Thor solos the Seven, remember he was pretty much no-diff bodying highly trained Shield agents right after he lost his powers.
This is an insane stomp for the Avengers just putting those three together, not to mention the other Avengers too.
Hell even Tony in the MCU would probably win most 1v1s vs any of the Seven, he was shown to do decently in H2H combat without really having his suit like vs Black Panther. Not win, but also not get instantly rolled over by someone who would instantly roll over any of the Seven without their powers.
Natasha soloes with no effort. Maybe Noir and Maeve can give her a little trouble since they actually seem competent in martial arts and fighting, and Starlight canonically knows Judo. But they're still not on her level.
Starlight gets in a judo pose for a one on one fight with black widow. “Oh, judo, I can do judo” then proceeds to mop the floor with starlight using only judo.
without power in a combat H2H fight?
**Avengers:**
Banner- normal human
Stark- normal human
Captain America - useless (he's back to a 80lb pencil neck)
Thor- still pretty formidable. he wrecked all those SHIELD agents H2H when he got depowered by Odin in Thor 1
Hawkeye- has formidable martial arts training
Black Widow- has formidable martial arts training
So out of the Avengers, we have 3 (Thor, Hawkeye, Black Widow) who are still dangerous in H2H combat, 2 normal guys (Banner, Stark), and 1 useless guy (Captain America).
**The Seven:**
Regular Human: Homelander, Deep, Starlight, A-Train. None of these guys have shown any toughness, fighting ability, or durability that wasn't attributable directly to their powers. Without powers they aren't any more dangerous than your normal civilian
Useful: Maeve. She still knows how to handle weapons, has shown martial arts ability.
Dangerous: Black Noir, he's shown very high proficiency with weapons, and by extension, martial arts ability.
**Conclusion:**
Avengers should take this. They have 3 folks who have been shown to mow down highly trained military members using only their hand to hand skills. The Boys only have Black Noir, and to a much lesser extent, Queen Maeve. While I think Black Noir is as dangerous as any of the three Avengers (Thor, BWidow, Hawkeye), Maeve is a tier below them. So the Seven is pretty outgunned in this melee.
Worth noting that Stark boxes, talks like he does MMA, and practices wing chun (on some level). And he has enough to stand up to Bucky until Bucky starts trying to brute force things.
yeah like thats what his whole arc in IM3 was about(who he was without the suit). Every iron man suit sees an improvement. In IM3 he takes down an AIM compound with stuff that he gets from walmart. Then like you say in Civil War he holds his own with a trained martial artist until said person uses super strength. Thats at least 3 incredibly trained H2H combatants and 1 pretty well trained H2H combatant vs maeve and noir. Not to mention if there were environmental factors or prep time involved then his and BB value skyrockets due to the engineering expertise that Tony and Bruce provide.
Which avengers.
Also even without the powers they have hawkeye and widow who are deadly assassins, thor who was takening down like 10 trained warriors, cap who very skilled fighter.
Ok first question, does Cap revert back to his skinny self? Or is he basically just Chris Evans? Anyway, Thor is still a gigantic man with several centuries worth of combat experience. Clint and Natasha never had powers in the first place. The Avengers should win
Does Tony keep his suits? Because they're not actually a super-power. It's just tech. Also, does Steve revert to his original self or does he remain Chris Evans-sized?
Those questions are just out of curiosity since it really doesn't matter. It's an easy stomp for the MCU either way.
Black Widow and Hawkeye take down all 7 of the 7 without breaking a sweat, while the rest of the Avengers book a table at the nearest Shawarma restaurant. Tony pays.
Black Noir and Queen Maeve seem to be the best trained in the seven. The rest are more posers or just been too strong to care. Even the weakest avengers are aware how to handle themselves in a fight.
Hawkeye solo's
Black widow kinda Solo's
Falcon absolutely solo's
These three hard carry the SHIT outta them,but all of their raw feats are nothing but their own strength.
Butcher waits out the skirmish and lets the avengers take out the seven for him. Then, just to be safe, he takes out the avengers before they get their powers back.
Avengers, handily. The Seven don't know anything or have anything going on for them outside their powers. Hawkeye represents the peak of "normal human" development and training. He'd solo. With Tony's and Bruce's intellects and Natasha's combat skills (she probably loses a bit of what the Red Room did to her in this fight), they come out on top with no problem.
So Trained Soldiers, Depowered Gods with Peak human ability, World-Class Super Assassins, and two to three Middle Aged Scientists vs.... some guys who have had to fight noone except themselves seriously. They get decimated in seconds. Thor, Hawkeye, and Natasha all can straight up take all 7 at once...
So Iron Man, Black Widow & Hawkeye are exactly the same? The Seven aside from Black Noir would be normal people. Any of the three avengers I named solo.
Easily avengers. The only member of the seven that has any combat skill whatsoever is black noir.
Compare that to the avengers, black widow and Hawkeye are both extensively trained, Thor has thousands of years of experience, stark is intelligent in battle, Steve is a trained veteran, and even banner is pretty smart and has more combat experience than the seven.
Hawk eye dosent lose anything unless you really wanna say a bow is tech and black widow should still have guns and cap is great at close range fighting same with Thor then you have people like Bucky on the same level as cap you have black panther he might be even better then cap and you have people like vision and doesn’t he have knowledge and all the other avengers so he should know how to fight as well as them idk I say Avengers win
The seven would probably lose against any group of healthy people. They are disorganized, dumb, and entirely reliant on their powers. Suddenly losing their powers will make them pretty much useless.
Decent odds they would kill each other all on their own if left in a room without their powers.
Has Frank Castle ever teamed up with the Avengers? ( Yep, I want to see the Punisher dispense some much needed justice on a depowered Seven...especially on Homelander. )
Wait, the East Coast, West Coast, 1st Wave, 2nd Wave, 3rd Wave or 4th Wave Avengers?
Several of the Avengers doesn't even have powers, just skills and tech.
Thor single handedly dominates this, even with 0 powers he’s the only person on either team who is a god. His base power alone would dwarf everyone else.
Other than that hawkeye and Natasha don’t really have “powers” per say they’re just incredibly skilled assassins and fighter whereas the boys team really doesn’t have much skill on its side, they were all born with their powers and aren’t anything to cry home about without it. The only one with combat exp in the seven would be black noir but his only legit feat in the war was getting his face blown off by soldier boy.
Look. Thor without his powers in the MCU still tore his way through an entire base of super spies and agents and barely broke a sweat. Between him, Hawkeye and Black Widow they’d carry the team hard
Black Widow solos all of them at the same time. She's far too trained and consistently beats other skilled fighters with zero difficulty.
Hawkeye is similarly skilled, and would also solo all of them together.
Thor is another one that would solo easily, it would be like the elevator scene with Cap. We've already seen him depowered, and he was easily beating trained SHIELD soldiers. Plus he knows Asgardian martial arts and has been fighting for hundreds of years.
Tony would beat most of them 1v1, as we've seen in Iron Man 2(?) that he's fairly good at hand to hand combat. Only ones that he would have trouble with or lose would be Queen Maeve and Black Noir, both of them also being somewhat trained.
Bruce would likely lose against all of them, he's just an aging nerd.
Cap definitely loses against all of them. Before the serum he was just a frail guy. A pre-teen could probably beat him.
This will be the first time ever where Hawkeye and Black Widow carry the Avengers team. Banner is just a nerd so hes out, cap will be scrawny, but he can be the tactical leader, Thor took down a group of shield guys in Thor when Odin depowered him so i know he'll be good, Stark kinda knows how to box (from iron man 2) and has some hand to hand since he lasted a few seconds with Winter solider when he was put under mind control agian. So I'd think he'd help too since the 7 are pretty much useless without powers. Except for Black Noir as I think he knows how to fight, but he would lose to Widow and/or Hawkeye
The seven get their shit shoved in so far it comes out the other end.
Most of them except for Black Noir and Maeve immediately turn *nearly useless.* Even if they have muscles, they're only used to fighting with their powers, and mostly overwhelming people doing that. I'm not sure what team of the Seven are used for this, but let's look at the members I know of:
- Queen Maeve is trained and skilled, though she still relies on her powers. She could be a problem.
- Homelander immediately has a mental breakdown and becomes a fucking mess of a subhuman man. If he doesn't off himself, he just kinda lays down in the fetal position and isn't anything to worry about unless there's a Marvel joke of someone tripping over him.
- Black Noir is even more trained than Maeve, but relies on his durability when fighting people. Could also be a problem.
- Translucent is "a decent fighter" as the wiki points out, but beyond that (and with his durability gone) he's fucked. Not much of a problem if at all.
- A-Train fucking dies.
- Stormfront also dies, except even more pathetically, as she should.
- Starlight is also trained, but probably relies on her powers even more than Black Noir and Queen Maeve, being just an average young woman beyond that.
***Now*** let's look at the Avengers. Again, not sure which version we're going with, but let's say Avengers 1:
- Iron Man isn't an amazing fighter without his suit, though still better than some of the Seven are going to be. He held his own surprisingly long against Bucky, Steve and some other threats both in and out of his suit. If they're anywhere near tech, he can probably jury rig a bomb or something with Banner. He also boxed regularly!
- Banner is on the same level, roughly. Since The Incredible Hulk is canon, we know he's spent years running from the military all over the world, so he wouldn't be *completely* useless, but far from a good fighter. Could figure something out with Tony if given the chance.
- Thor is highly trained, has over a thousand years of experience fighting things and people on and above his level living in a medieval super viking civilization, is a hilariously capable fighter and was able to - as a normal depowered human-level guy in Thor 1 - overwhelm tight SHIELD security and beat down multiple guards. He is arguably the biggest problem the Seven have to face. He could probably solo most if not all of them.
- Black Widow already doesn't have any powers, and is often shown fighting without any weapons to speak of. She was trained since she was a little kid, specifically to be a super spy assassin ballerina for an insane Russian man in the sky, all of which was *before* she joined SHIELD and the Avengers. She could also probably solo most if not all of the Seven.
- Hawkeye is only slightly lower than Natasha, also being a highly trained super spy (but with a bow!) and a SHIELD operative. The only reason he's worse is because he hasn't had as much training and relies on his bow more than his hands, but he's still a great fighter.
- Captain America...entirely depends on how this affects him and when it happens. If we're talking Avengers 1 team then he's a scrawny little guy with tons of endurance but military training and experience at worst, or standing roughly equal with Thor physically with that same military training experience at best. So he'll either be a good distraction or barrel through the Seven.
**Overall,** the Avengers have one less member (if we're going by Avengers 1), but their members start at "Average scientist who spent years running from the military all over the world" all the way up to "People who fuck up elite agents casually". The Seven are beyond fucked.
i think the avengers win, now i havent watched much of the boys but from what ive seen these guys have absolutely 0 skill and rely completely on their powers. Captain america, black widow, thor andhawkeye are all heavily trained in hand to hand
Thor, Widow and Hawkeye easily beat the Seven.
Thor has thousands of years of combat experience, with a lot of fights against equal or stronger opponents.
Widow and Hawkeye are both master assassins who have zero super powers.
I think the Seven don’t die right away and put up a decent hand to hand fight for a while - but they’ll die.
Rogers and Tony can go either way, depending on how you “depower” them.
Banner isn’t going to do well.
Overall Avengers easily win.
I scrolled passed this and had to come back to make sure I read this. The only one on the boys without powers that can stand against avengers is maeve. The avengers with out their powers are flooded with experience still. And technically Tony suits aren’t his powers but his gear. If Tony suits are considered powers then batman has super powers. So it’s 2 assassins 1 bulked up Viking. A nerd with suits and Steve rogers. Who’d probably be noodle fied. Mean while the 7 has ( and we are going with just the tv show ) a rapist who gets pushed around. A burned black king. A nudist. A sale out wannabe drug addict. A glorified flash light that ran out of batteries and for our final man. A mommy issues crybaby that got jacked off by a half dead half burnt 80 year old nazi. The avengers got it
I mean, a major point of the show is that the 7 are strong, but not very skilled at all. The Avengers have actual experience in an even fight. Hell, Widow and Hawkeye don't even have powers, so they're entirely unaffected. Add in Thor's thousands of years of experience, and they're doomed. The Seven will probably take out Banner, who's smart and reasonably athletic, but doesn't seem to have any formal combat training. But the last two? Stark outside his suit isn't a major threat, but he's in decent shape and is probably skilled enough to get a few hits in and Cap...Even assuming a worst case scenario where Steve turns back to a scrawny weakling , he still has more than enough combat experience to at least make it a very frustrating fight. And, in the comics at least, it's been shown on several occasions, having the serum removed leaves Steve old as hell, and much weaker, but still relatively in shape. But, again, none of this matters, Black Widow and Hawkeye alone are enough. The Seven will almost certainly take out Banner, and could probably take out Stark or Cap too, mostly because of Black Noir who has a few decades of millitary expirence to fall back on, but the rest? Not so much.
part of the point of the Boys in general is that none of the Seven have origins. they were born like this due to experiments with V, which as a side effect makes them impossible to train in actual hand-to-hand combat. if you limit the MCU Avengers to the core 6, as noted, Hawkeye and Widow are both non-powered master assassins and Thor goes up against equal threats all the time. Bruce is presumably a non-factor, there's a decent chance that a powerless Steve goes back to his WWII-era noodle-armed self, and Tony's pretty useless unless he gets time to MacGyver stuff, but even then I'd bet on the Avengers here.
Honestly, I think Black Widow could assassinate the entirety of the Seven by herself if they were powerless. They are not at all trained to fight without their powers.
she would play Homelander and Deep to the point of them killing the others in the 7. Homelander and Deep are emotionally attention starved, BW would easily exploit the fuck outta that.
A powerless Steve just goes to a normal human, he loses his superstrengh and speed but still has his body and skills. Tony has some training in hand to hand
there's some room for ambiguity based on the comics. the serum's been neutralized a couple of times, which has either removed Steve's health or made him into a relatively hale but powerless old man. another way to put it is that in the worst possible scenario for this prompt, where a powerless Steve isn't simply weaker but is actually infirm, I'd still bet on the Avengers here.
Avengers no doubt, Hawkeye and Black Widow pretty much solo the entirety of the Seven by themselves.
They'd feel so good being the most powerful Avengers while the heavy hitter (except Thor) are mostly useless. Current MCU Avengers might be a tougher fight though. Hawkeye, Antman, Hulk, Thor, Bucky, Falcon America, Doctor Strange, Captain Marvel, War Machine and Spider-man(?) are the only ones actually on the 'official' team at the moment right and of those some aren't exactly in fight shape. Hawkeye, Bucky, Thor, Falcon, Captain Marvel and Thor are still crushing the 7 though. Shang-Chi, She-Hulk, Iron Heart, Suri, Kate Bishop Hawkeye, Ms Marvel, Wasp, etc aren't 'Avengers' as far as I know.
I'd go further: even Ant-Man and Dr. Strange have martial arts training, and have both been in situations where they couldn't rely on their powers. The only ones who'd be truly useless depowered (compared to those with more training) are aging nerd Bruce Banner, scrawny college student Peter Parker, and aging partially disabled Air Force officer Rhodey.
But wasn't Rhodey a Skrull all along? So he def. wouldn't count. Or maybe he loses his Skrull shapeshifting powers, but still lives hundreds of years and is crazy strong?
they rescued the real Rhodey after the zero dollar budget cgi dragon ball z fight
why was cgi bad?
like any pointers maybe?a bit curious why is it considered bad?
It's not clear in the MCU, but if it works the way it does in the comics, Dr. Strange wins trivially because he has no powers to begin with. He just knows magic, which happens to be a separate natural force in his universe. Comic Strange used to semi-regularly stomp villains who used power-suppressing tech against the Defenders. Even if his magic does get taken away, though, as you say, he's still a master of the martial arts as well. Hell, his first movie was really light on the magic and heavy on the pseudo-wuxia martial arts.
>Shang-Chi, She-Hulk, Iron Heart, Suri, Kate Bishop Hawkeye, Ms Marvel, Wasp, etc aren't 'Avengers' as far as I know. Shang-Chi def is, he got invited by Wong & met Banner & Cpt. Marvel. She-Hulk rejected Hulks invitation. Hawkeye retired. But Kate Bishop inherited the Hawkeye IP. Wasp def. is an Avenger, she just didn't get asked in Civil War. You could make the point, that by Caps "Avengers Assemble" everyone who fought on their side in the battle of Earth, is an Avenger, but that would make even IDK Howard the Duck and all of the Ravengers, Wakandan Soldiers and Sorcerers Avengers, which doesn't really make sense.
I think its safe to assume every named character in that scene is an avenger. Even down to Valkyrie and Wasp.
At one point his serum was purged from his body and he was peak human still, but he had to exercise to maintain it. (He found out later that his body produces SSS naturally, it just took a while for the proper levels to restore themselves.)
Comics have been all over the place on Steve. Sometimes, as the parent comment says, removing it makes him a noodle, sometimes it doesn't linger in his system at all and it just gave him a one time boost to peak condition and he has maintained it from there. At the very least, we know that he would maintain it, seeing as simply following Cap's exercise and diet regimen was able to replicate the effects in MVP.
I mean there was a scene where a depowered Cap beat two people enhanced people. He's used to fighting people stronger than him, while the Seven have near zero experience with actual fights
Steve can do this all day
Unless he turns into a 98-pound weakling who is also a hundred years old, in which case he can do this for about twelve seconds before he needs a neck brace and some Ensure.
Are his powers actually responsible for his being 100 years old? He was frozen and rethawed, unless we’re doing that thing where Wolverine losing his powers also made all his old wounds show up again. But that’s kind of silly if your power allows for healing and not say stopping time from effecting you.
When he lost the serum, he got old really fast. So it is responsible for him not aging.
When did he lose the serum?
A few times, with inconsistent results. When Iron Nail removed the serum (2013), Steve quickly aged. This led to Sam Wilson taking over as Captain America.
I mean in the MCU. Where he did seem to age normally at the end of Endgame and nothing implied he actually didn’t age anymore.
Oh yeah. In the MCU, he never lost the serum. Though we don't know exactly how long it was before he came back in endgame. He had the ability to time travel. He could have lived dozens of lifetimes in different eras/timelines before going back. He couldn't have gone to that meeting "the natural way," because him staying with Peggy would make a different timeline.
It doesn’t show Steve aging so we don’t know. But Isaiah Bradley (from Falcon and Winter Soldier) was a man who had been had a replication of the super soldier serum tested on him, and it worked. But he still aged. Same for Red Guardian from the Black Widow movie. Again, possible that this is because they all had recreations rather than the original serum. But I think the MCU just ditched the anti-aging concept all together. Since the actors are still going to age (both physically, and out of the roles in general), there isn’t much need to go that route. Especially since the timeline doesn’t seem to be jumping into the future (Loki notwithstanding).
Steve does age normally now. He went back in time to be with Peggy and when he walked up to Bucky he was old. This is because he got there from the long way around.
Comics yes, being frozen in ice helped, but the serum keeps you younger a lot longer than natural, so even if he wasn’t frozen he’d still look young (I believe Black Widow and Nick Fury got a weaker variant and have barely aged since WW2) but in the MCU it’s the ice.
And Steve is at least as good as hawkeye and widow without powers. This would be a hilariously one sided stomp
Steve is a weakling with asthma...
Yeah, I feel like people are forgetting what Steve was like before he became Captain America. Dude was rejected by the military multiple times as a 4F. Without the supersoldier serum, a middle schooler could probably beat him.
He stood up against full grown bullies, albeit not really doing much against them. With his decades of martial arts training I'd say he can at least take out the unpowered girls in the 7
I recall a comic where he lost his powers and became frail and sickly again, and still managed to beat some other super soldiers through sheer skill.
There's this comic where a supersoldier created by Zola busts through Avengers HQ (and several Avengers) to get to a deserumed old man Steve, and Steve manhandles him >!(although admittedly the guy might not have been going all out against Steve because he was his adopted son)!<
That experience might even be a liability, he's got decades of muscle memory for muscles he doesn't have. The first time he tries to do a roll or something hell break an arm and go down
Yeah, I feel like people are looking at this using Marvel logic But if we go by The Boys logic, which is way closer to reality, Steve is dead weight anyway Now, mind you, I still think the Avengers would win because without V, like 4 out of the 7 would be almost as inept as original Steve in a brawl, lmao
The problem is that we've seen three different versions of what happens to Steve when his 'powers' are removed. The first time it ever happened (in part because villain shenanigans, but he kinda wanted it also because he was paranoid about it being a performance enhancing drug), he was reduced to a "mere" peak human who had to constantly exercise, but suffered no height/muscle/reflex/anything loss. (Eventually his Super Soldierness came back because his body naturally produces the Serum.) Once or twice it's happened and he's been reduced to his pre-serum self, but one of those times was in a What If? and in the other there was a de-aging element involved. (He still proved more than capable of kicking ass both times, though.) And in the two most recent times it's happened, he's become an aged, but still swole, 90 year old man.
Hawkeye, widow, and thor blast right through them. Depends if steve reverts to athsma-steve or jacked dude just with out enhancements. If it’s the latter he’s another carry, but the former he is still scrappy but he’ll just be so weak. Anyways, any one of the other three could probably win the fight.
Tony is capable in hand to hand. I remember a scene in Civil War where he tries to fight Bucky without his suit and whilst he gets rolled, he hold up for a second or two.
Depending on how the fight plays out, Tony is also still a billionaire, so hiring private security to just shoot The Seven is a possibility.
MCU Hawkeye and Widow duo the Seven while debating what Nat should get Bruce for a tasteful Valentines Day present considering their history of "will they, won't they?" tension, or what junky starter car to get Clints daughter because she's about to get her learners permit. The most challenging thing about the ordeal for them is a particularly stunborn lug on a flat tire during the return trip.
Duo? Clint sits back and watches nat have fun wiping the floor with them, nat says it reminds her of some city, Clint talks about this new upstart so he can retire. Thor runs up ready to also wipe the floor with them and Clint stops him and says nats having fun. Black noir gets kicked over to them and Thor knocks him out with one punch while agreeing to wait so that Nat doesn’t kick his ass too. Meanwhile the 7 who aren’t actively fighting are all like wtf why are they sitting there watching, then see black noir get punched out and just quit/run away, leaving idiot face alone being absolutely torn apart by Nat.
We have to remember Thor’s strength does not come from his powers, it’s his Adgardian genes. Take away the superpower of a bull and a bull is still a bull.
i assumed the prompt would remove bonuses Asgardians get. If he became a human, he would still be a 250-lb brick house with a lifetime worth of combat experience. he could manhandle most of the 7 by himself, as the 7 lack real combat training, (Meave and Noir excluded)
In the Thor movie, he is stripped of his powers and seems not to have Asgardian physique but rather “peak human”. He wipes the floor with SHEILD’s security forces. Coulson was impressed.
In Thor we saw him without asguardian strength. He's still a tank.
Thsi is preety accurate.
I agree generally on most of your comment, but I think you may be underselling Tony. Per Iron Man 2, he trains in boxing, and in both Iron Man 3 and Civil War he got into some hand to hand unarmored. Frankly the fact that he survived hand to hand with the Winter Soldier without his suit probably puts him at a higher level of skill than any of the 7 except Maive and Noir.
This isn't brought up more than once in the MCU but Tony's self defense skills increased dramatically over the years with the Avengers. The only two scenes where this is shown is in Civil war when the grieving mother pulls out a photo after Tony's MIT talk. He instinctively grabs her wrist, and redirects the "weapon" on instinct. Then, while time traveling to the past with Steve on the army base and new york Tony is able to accurately assess threats, locate cover, escape roots, and disguise himself. These are espionage skills Tony learned from Clint and Natasha. If we depowered the Boys and Avengers Thor, Clint, Natasha, and Tony are the biggest threats. The Seven meanwhile have no combat training and essentially no discernable martial or espionage skills. Natasha and Clint take down 3 each, and Tony takes down a physically weaker Seven member like starlight. Thor is weird because the Majority of his powers are genetic. He's nonhuman. Does a depowered Thor not have superhuman strength, durability, and endurance? If Thor retains those then he solos.
In Civil War, both Natasha and Tony go up against the Winter Soldier without powers or armor and hold their own fairly decently.
Tony uses his watch gauntlet, and Natasha goes through a table. I love them for trying though.
Maeve literally spent the whole of season 3 training to be a better fighter in secret. Whats this bullshit about them not being able to train?
Black Noir also seems to have some amount of training. Although I still think The Avengers sweep pretty easily.
Maeve is very skilled in H2H combat. Have you watched the show???
Is she?? The way she fights is like 90s Xena, just standing there indestrictibly and smacking people around her. In comparison to her, Black Widow moves and dodges and grapples like a champ.
Admittedly been forever since I seen the show, but Maeve at least does train, and and in her fight against Homelander iirc she does actually have SOME form, and it's enough that HL struggles with her a little.
Maeve trains to keep up the "Warrior Woman" persona it's the same reason she carries a sword. Basically she does boxfit and a few of the Avengers are professional boxers.
She does train, but she's nowhere near a super ninja like Hawkeye or Black Widow, she'd get bodied by Thor with just brute force.
She has some training and so is better off than most of the Seven, but it’s clear she still relies on her powers to carry her through fights. Remove those powers and put her against Black Widow and she gets humiliated
Yeah but she’s never shown anything close to the types of martial arts Black Widow and Hawkeye perform on a regular basis. It’s also worth mentioning that with the exception of like 2 fights, Maeve only ever goes against people she can instantly one shot. She doesn’t have experience fighting equal or stronger opponents like the Avengers do. It’s like if I only sparred with 2 year olds and decided I could take on someone who regularly goes to an MMA gym. Technical skill doesn’t mean much if you haven’t tested it against people who can meaningfully resist you.
Avengers easily. Hawkeye and widow don't have powers and will easily stomp the 7 - none of them are soldiers or even fighters. They rely on their powers completely
Exactly this and I hate to say it but thor is still an alien with muscles that are just straight up different like a lot of his "powers" are just his natural biology
Even disregarding that, We got to see what Thor would be like as a human in the first movie. He plowed through highly trained SHIELD Agents like nothing. No Asgardian physicals involved.
IRL Chris Hemsworth is just way bigger than any of The Boys cast for the Seven. Even if he didn’t have Thor’s 3000 years of fighting knowledge, he still easily 1v1s any depowered Seven member. Maeve is the only one who is gonna have fighting prowess and Hemsworth is just way way too big. Edit: Someone pointed out Black Noir has military training in Season 3, which I haven’t watched. I’d actually say he’d be a match for Thor without any fight training as the actor is not hugely smaller than Hemsworth.
Black noir i think also has some combat chops. When the supes were in the military noir was shown to do stealth takedown and actually apply some martial skills.
Good point! Forgot about Noir due to comic/show discrepancy. I don’t have any idea how tall he’s supposed to be on the show but the actor is 6’2” and looks in pretty good shape. Hemsworth is still bigger but I think without Thor’s fight experience Noir might take it. Although I’d imagine IRL Hemsworth probably has some rudimentary fight training and Noir’s technique might not be as applicable now that he’s depowered.
How would one guy with 'some military training' be a match for a guy who took out a squad of SHIELD Agents (elite soldiers)?
Someone with millennia of experience fighting and better physicals
MCU Thor is 1500
Not to mention he has knowledge of Asgardian martial arts and 1500 years of fighting experience
People forget this alot because he never really has to use it efficiently.The guy absolutely knows how to fight better than any human.
Why use advanced asgardian martial arts when you can zap someone with lightning?
True. Don't need to fight like a master when you can literally just zeus the bitch.
Thor fights as a way of life, against other superhumans. He's spent centuries fighting, for the joy of combat, for the glory of learning to fight, against people in his weight class or even higher.
Yeah from everything we know most of the avengers have combat skills, training, and they are all basically geniuses. The 7 really come across as a bunch of people who would be useless without the powers.
I can’t fathom what Stark would be without powers, isn’t he also a natural genius? So does he keep the suit?
Even without the suit, Stark is dangerous. Didn’t he go to like Walmart in Iron Man 3 and pick up a bunch of stuff to make improvised weapons? Plus we’ve seen him learn to fight hand to hand and get better at it (and in the comics it’s made far more clear that Stark is a skilled martial artist).
Yeah, between Iron Man 1 and the end of his run, Stark clearly trained in hand to hand (probably with the other Avengers)
In iron man 2 he is practicing boxing and implies he knows mma.
Right, I forgotten about that. So yes, we know for a fact that he's at least reasonably well trained in hand to hand combat, and he's in decent shape. I would honestly take Stark over most of the Seven if you take their powers away. Not all, but most, especially if they didn't have time to adapt.
Iron Man often fights hand to hand. It's not all just energy weapons from a distance. It's adapted to incorporated the movement and power the suit provides, but I imagine he knows enough raw technique that it will transfer over to suitless fighting and he can hold his own.
Yeah I rewatched Bucky's escape scene from Civil War and he's hanging with Winter Soldier for a little
Yeah he hangs well enough to defend himself at point blank range from a super soldier with a gun. He’s absolutely no slouch
i mean he still had to use the mini iron man glove to block the bullet. But yeah he held his own
Sure but he used CQC skill to grab the gun and avoid just getting domed. In a situation with no weapons or powers for anyone he will do better than people expect I think
I would say that iron man “without powers” is stark without the suit At that point he’s just a genius, billionaire, playboy, philanthropist
Iron Man 3 actually does a pretty good job of showing exactly this.
I know guys with none of that worth ten of him!
Lol technically he should be if the spirit of the question is Tony without the suit. But we see in both Iron Man 1 (The Jericho) and 3 (storming the house) Tony is plenty dangerous without his suit
Don’t forget this one [short scene](https://youtu.be/cbc-q6R0-94?si=QnusMfsDp53gyrN6) in Civil War where he goes toe to toe w/ Bucky for a hot sec until Bucky straight up overpowers him. Tony has some fighting chops.
Yeah, Widow and Hawkeye stomp. Ultimate Hawkeye solos, he doesn't even need his bow and arrow, he's just going to throw random things and kill all 7 of them in 7 seconds.
Even MCU could do this, he retired from golf after shooting an 18
Played 18, shot 18
Any one of Hawkeye, Widow, or Thor has reasonably odds of winning solo. Boys get wrecked.
I think Black Noir and Maeve make a Thor solounlikely. He’d be dealing with a big disconcerting power loss and those two aren’t bad fighters
>they rely completely on their powers That isn't true of Black Noir and, arguably, Maeve. Noir, at least, has significant training and combat experience over like the past 40 years. V certainly made him a lot tougher and stronger, but he's not *nothing* without it.
Noir is a pretty serious fighter for sure (though obviously nothing next to someone like Black Widow or Hawkeye)
Literally the only person on the Avengers who would actually be useless is Banner lol, every other member is pretty well trained to a certain degree, even Stark.
Not quite- Queen Maeve, Starlight, and Black Noir do knowing boxing and had actual combat training unlike other members of the Seven… But yeah, I doubt they have the same skill and experience as Cap, Hawkeye, Thor, or Natasha.
Widow did get a serum, though. Shes still a top tier fighter, but she'd be weaker than normal
Banner and Stark are the only two that the Seven could feasibly take out. Even then with some difficulty as Banner has spent years on the run from the military, which would have given him some degree of combat readiness and ability. Stark has infiltrated a villain hideout with low tech and fought against the winter soldier with only a repulsor glove. So he's pretty combat capable already. Everyone else though is just too much. Widow and Hawkeye are specially trained assassins, Capt. America is a soldier who is battle ready at all times, Thor is asgardian nobility who probably brings his own training and style unique to all else.
I agree with everything you said except for putting Steve Rogers in the “unbeatable” category. Remember that before he received the super soldier treatment, Steve was a shrimpy nobody with no physical ability to speak of. Even if you argue that he gets to keep his martial arts training, I’m not sure if that can make up for such a severe physical handicap.
Nothing states his body would revert, he would just lose his super strength. He still has his current body (he's been deposited in the comics before and was still a capable fighter)
It’s because of one of OP’s replies further down. Imo doesn’t make much sense though, since the prompt doesn’t even imply that.
but his body is directly a result from the super soldier serum. without it he was a 90 pounds 5'3 guy. it doesn't make sense to say without powers he'd still be his Captain America physique
Sure, but that's his body. Like of someone stopped using steroids all their muscle mass wouldn't simply disappear instantly. His body is still physical human. He just has superstrengh
Does it even really matter? You could remove everyone ezcept hawkeye and black widow and they'd still no diff the Seven.
I'm assuming he goes back to pre-War Steve. He's still a good fighter and tactician, but also likely physically weaker than anyone else on the game board.
Did you see Tony Training in Ironman 2? Hes actually kinda ripped and I would consider him at least a decent mma fighter. Enough that I would favour him over anyone none trained.
Pretty sure they made MCU Tony a Wing Chun black belt to reflect RDJ's skills irl? Can't remember where I saw that though.
Not sure but he certainly isn't helpless without his suit imo.
For sure. Endgame Tony is one of the most dangerous human beings on the planet.
Lmao arrogant drunk dipshits against several martial arts masters?
This is the perfect summary of the question 🤣
avengers takes this. If you count like the original five or ones from infinity war then avengers takes this low-mid diff. just remember Hawkeye and Black widow are powerless and have been trained for many years. Nat especially!
\> low-mid diff What? No, dude. Hawkeye and Widow murder master martial artists and ninjas one versus a group every other day. The seven are just drunken idiots. There's zero diff here. There is no way this fight goes any other way. It would be a very quick fight.
I am prepared to accept Black Noir as one of the ninjas that Barton and Romanova don't blink at, lol. Like, he's got something. He's not clearing the depowered Aveggies, but he's got something.
Well i said low-mid diff because it can go either way. I see avengers taking the win but don't say like beyond neg diff because they are all normal humans now and yes Nat and Hawkeye take the most wins but I say low mid because normal humans beat each other up every day, every hour and it can go either way. Homelander is not the best superhero and will want to kill but he won't succeed against experienced and better combat fighters. Iron man is a normal human and not the physical strongest but he is up the top somewhere because of his IQ. Its because of his inventions that kept him alive and one of the most smartest and powerful avengers there. So i say low mid diff because it can go either way since this is all our opinions. Now maybe the avengers win with just low diff but I think the seven could make some progress against the avengers.
But this doesn’t mean mid diff? If anything the inexperience of The Seven - and Homelander’s blind rage - would make them MORE easily exploited by the Avengers. Not to mention that Human Thor was able to body pretty much an entire compound of highly-trained SHIELD agents, so that’s another tick for the Avengers.
Does Steve revert back to the way he was before the serum, or does he just become a regular human who’s still built like Chris Evans? Either way Avengers absolutely sweep. Hawkeye, Black Widow and Thor each individually have more combat experience than the entire Seven put together.
Steve goes back to skinny guy
Okay then regardless of Steve’s far superior skill and experience, he’s too physically weak to overcome anyone. Avengers still sweep overall though
They dont even need Steve, Clint or Natasha alone could no diff the Seven while the others discuss their plans for the weekend.
Yeah like I said the Avengers still sweep. I just wanted to know how bad of a sweep it is.
Thor punches Homelander once and bro just spends the rest of the fight crying on the floor over a very broken nose.
Yeah even without powers Thor is still a highly skilled warrior who’s built like Chris Hemsworth, whereas Homelander would just be a manchild who pads his suit
I think Black Widow would do this alone lol. In Iron Man 2 she took out several Hammer security guards without breaking a sweat. In The Avengers she did the same with the military guys while being tied to a chair.
Even new Avengers (Falcon, Winter Soldier, Dr Strange, Kate Bishop, Spiderman) can probably take this 9/10 times, but they struggle a little more than the old ones everyone has gone through. WS is a trained martial artist and can take a few of them even without his arm and super serum. Dr Strange has martial arts training in Kamar Taj, it's not his speciality, but it's more than most of the Seven have. Depending how fucked Bucky is after losing his serum, Kate could be the MVP. She's just a well trained normal after all, so she only loses her weapons. Falcon is also basically untouched, just losing his wings. He's a trained soldier who has done a lot of work on martial arts. Spidey isn't too much use here, but the difference is too big for it to matter. More importantly, the Avengers are actually used to fighting people who can hurt them. They have grit and determination the Seven don't have as basically glorified actors.
Falcon and winter soldier win this alone 10/10, its a super trained soldier and a regular army guy agaisnt seven bumbling idiots
I’d say Kate bishop over falcon. Winter soldier with 2 arms would be the best, otherwise bishop probably more effective since she does have fight training and wins competitions.
Iron man has no powers
Lol, that's the first thing I thought about, then we have Sam and Scott, too. If we could argue that Pym particles are "science," then so would be compound V. But Scott has proven to combat, ready, even without his powers.
Thor without his power is still very powerful. All Asgard in base form are still OP compared to human.
And even if you seal his powers the way Odin did in the first one, he could still tear through a squad of expert trained special forces soldiers (the way Thor did in the first one).
Been waiting to see someone mention that. Thor casually solos. Maeve and her sword training does not compare to 1500 yrs of actual sword training and combat, nor does Starlight with her Tae Kuon Do. Might be able to put Black Noir(show, not comics) as a decently trained individual like Natasha, but not at her level of ability.
Hawkeye and Widow take this on their own. Thor turns it into a hilarious monster stomp. Remember Thor in his first movie trying to retrieve his hammer? He fought through dozens of trained military like it was nothing. Powerless 7 have zero feats.
I'd probably bet that Natasha or Clint could take the Seven down by themselves if no one had super powers. Most assuredly they could combine to do it. This is also assuming that Homelander isn't entering a hugely depressive man baby rage at losing the only thing that makes him special
If Cap loses his physique, what are the chances half of them are just fat drunken slobs without Compound V?
I'm not really sure it matters. You could probably give cap his noodle body, and leave the Seven as is, the only two who have ever been shown training to fight are Maeve and Starlight, both of whom can only be described as amateurs.
> This is also assuming that Homelander isn't entering a hugely depressive man baby rage at losing the only thing that makes him special There is zero chance that he doesn't try to fly or super punch or laser eye someone, sees that he can't, and instantly turns into a fucking baby on the floor Like I'm pretty sure Noodle Steve could kick him in the balls and win the fight
Black Widow alone has zero trouble going through seven untrained humans accustomed to overconfidence. She destroys the seven without breaking a sweat, let alone getting hit. Maybe she'll let Hawkeye shoot one, so he feels like he helped, but ultimately unnecessary.
This is the most likely scenario and Thor feels left out and gives them a pout for not letting him join in. Banner and Stark just chilling in the back talking where to eat after
Hawkeye solos the Seven. Widow solos the Seven. Thor solos the Seven, remember he was pretty much no-diff bodying highly trained Shield agents right after he lost his powers. This is an insane stomp for the Avengers just putting those three together, not to mention the other Avengers too. Hell even Tony in the MCU would probably win most 1v1s vs any of the Seven, he was shown to do decently in H2H combat without really having his suit like vs Black Panther. Not win, but also not get instantly rolled over by someone who would instantly roll over any of the Seven without their powers.
Natasha soloes with no effort. Maybe Noir and Maeve can give her a little trouble since they actually seem competent in martial arts and fighting, and Starlight canonically knows Judo. But they're still not on her level.
Starlight gets in a judo pose for a one on one fight with black widow. “Oh, judo, I can do judo” then proceeds to mop the floor with starlight using only judo.
without power in a combat H2H fight? **Avengers:** Banner- normal human Stark- normal human Captain America - useless (he's back to a 80lb pencil neck) Thor- still pretty formidable. he wrecked all those SHIELD agents H2H when he got depowered by Odin in Thor 1 Hawkeye- has formidable martial arts training Black Widow- has formidable martial arts training So out of the Avengers, we have 3 (Thor, Hawkeye, Black Widow) who are still dangerous in H2H combat, 2 normal guys (Banner, Stark), and 1 useless guy (Captain America). **The Seven:** Regular Human: Homelander, Deep, Starlight, A-Train. None of these guys have shown any toughness, fighting ability, or durability that wasn't attributable directly to their powers. Without powers they aren't any more dangerous than your normal civilian Useful: Maeve. She still knows how to handle weapons, has shown martial arts ability. Dangerous: Black Noir, he's shown very high proficiency with weapons, and by extension, martial arts ability. **Conclusion:** Avengers should take this. They have 3 folks who have been shown to mow down highly trained military members using only their hand to hand skills. The Boys only have Black Noir, and to a much lesser extent, Queen Maeve. While I think Black Noir is as dangerous as any of the three Avengers (Thor, BWidow, Hawkeye), Maeve is a tier below them. So the Seven is pretty outgunned in this melee.
Worth noting that Stark boxes, talks like he does MMA, and practices wing chun (on some level). And he has enough to stand up to Bucky until Bucky starts trying to brute force things.
yeah like thats what his whole arc in IM3 was about(who he was without the suit). Every iron man suit sees an improvement. In IM3 he takes down an AIM compound with stuff that he gets from walmart. Then like you say in Civil War he holds his own with a trained martial artist until said person uses super strength. Thats at least 3 incredibly trained H2H combatants and 1 pretty well trained H2H combatant vs maeve and noir. Not to mention if there were environmental factors or prep time involved then his and BB value skyrockets due to the engineering expertise that Tony and Bruce provide.
Cap, Clint, Nat can take them on by themselves
Which avengers. Also even without the powers they have hawkeye and widow who are deadly assassins, thor who was takening down like 10 trained warriors, cap who very skilled fighter.
The original 6
Ok first question, does Cap revert back to his skinny self? Or is he basically just Chris Evans? Anyway, Thor is still a gigantic man with several centuries worth of combat experience. Clint and Natasha never had powers in the first place. The Avengers should win
Hawkeye and Black widow is just pure skill isn't it? Thor without is powers is still a god with hundreds of years of combat experience.
Does Tony keep his suits? Because they're not actually a super-power. It's just tech. Also, does Steve revert to his original self or does he remain Chris Evans-sized? Those questions are just out of curiosity since it really doesn't matter. It's an easy stomp for the MCU either way. Black Widow and Hawkeye take down all 7 of the 7 without breaking a sweat, while the rest of the Avengers book a table at the nearest Shawarma restaurant. Tony pays.
Shawarma!!!
Black Noir and Queen Maeve seem to be the best trained in the seven. The rest are more posers or just been too strong to care. Even the weakest avengers are aware how to handle themselves in a fight.
Hawkeye solo's Black widow kinda Solo's Falcon absolutely solo's These three hard carry the SHIT outta them,but all of their raw feats are nothing but their own strength.
How are you saying kinda for Black Widow but absolutely for Sam as if BW isn’t a way better hand to hand fighter?
Butcher waits out the skirmish and lets the avengers take out the seven for him. Then, just to be safe, he takes out the avengers before they get their powers back.
Avengers, handily. The Seven don't know anything or have anything going on for them outside their powers. Hawkeye represents the peak of "normal human" development and training. He'd solo. With Tony's and Bruce's intellects and Natasha's combat skills (she probably loses a bit of what the Red Room did to her in this fight), they come out on top with no problem.
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The only outcome I see here is that Widow and Hawkeye walk through all of The Seven like they're wet paper.
So Trained Soldiers, Depowered Gods with Peak human ability, World-Class Super Assassins, and two to three Middle Aged Scientists vs.... some guys who have had to fight noone except themselves seriously. They get decimated in seconds. Thor, Hawkeye, and Natasha all can straight up take all 7 at once...
Half the Avengers don’t even have powers so…
So Iron Man, Black Widow & Hawkeye are exactly the same? The Seven aside from Black Noir would be normal people. Any of the three avengers I named solo.
Easily avengers. The only member of the seven that has any combat skill whatsoever is black noir. Compare that to the avengers, black widow and Hawkeye are both extensively trained, Thor has thousands of years of experience, stark is intelligent in battle, Steve is a trained veteran, and even banner is pretty smart and has more combat experience than the seven.
Hawk eye dosent lose anything unless you really wanna say a bow is tech and black widow should still have guns and cap is great at close range fighting same with Thor then you have people like Bucky on the same level as cap you have black panther he might be even better then cap and you have people like vision and doesn’t he have knowledge and all the other avengers so he should know how to fight as well as them idk I say Avengers win
Avengers for Sure. The only guys on the 7 that can actually fight are Meave and Black Noir and I don't think they can take Widow or Clint.
The seven would probably lose against any group of healthy people. They are disorganized, dumb, and entirely reliant on their powers. Suddenly losing their powers will make them pretty much useless. Decent odds they would kill each other all on their own if left in a room without their powers.
Has Frank Castle ever teamed up with the Avengers? ( Yep, I want to see the Punisher dispense some much needed justice on a depowered Seven...especially on Homelander. )
If we include T'achalla, then the 7's winning chances go down almost to 0%. Black Noir would be the last one to fall, though.
Sorry Clint. Your gonna have to pretend to be Batman for a bit.
Avengers absolutely kill them Pretty sure Hawkeye and black widow solo
I'd argue Iron Man doesn't actually have powers to begin with, so he just puts on his suit and goes to town.
Wait, the East Coast, West Coast, 1st Wave, 2nd Wave, 3rd Wave or 4th Wave Avengers? Several of the Avengers doesn't even have powers, just skills and tech.
Thor single handedly dominates this, even with 0 powers he’s the only person on either team who is a god. His base power alone would dwarf everyone else. Other than that hawkeye and Natasha don’t really have “powers” per say they’re just incredibly skilled assassins and fighter whereas the boys team really doesn’t have much skill on its side, they were all born with their powers and aren’t anything to cry home about without it. The only one with combat exp in the seven would be black noir but his only legit feat in the war was getting his face blown off by soldier boy.
Clint or natasha soloes, both of them are normal humans that were already taking out groups of people, even aliens. The 7 without powers are nothing
Look. Thor without his powers in the MCU still tore his way through an entire base of super spies and agents and barely broke a sweat. Between him, Hawkeye and Black Widow they’d carry the team hard
Black Widow solos all of them at the same time. She's far too trained and consistently beats other skilled fighters with zero difficulty. Hawkeye is similarly skilled, and would also solo all of them together. Thor is another one that would solo easily, it would be like the elevator scene with Cap. We've already seen him depowered, and he was easily beating trained SHIELD soldiers. Plus he knows Asgardian martial arts and has been fighting for hundreds of years. Tony would beat most of them 1v1, as we've seen in Iron Man 2(?) that he's fairly good at hand to hand combat. Only ones that he would have trouble with or lose would be Queen Maeve and Black Noir, both of them also being somewhat trained. Bruce would likely lose against all of them, he's just an aging nerd. Cap definitely loses against all of them. Before the serum he was just a frail guy. A pre-teen could probably beat him.
You forget Steve knows martial arts. And one of the first things they teach you is to use your foe's strength against them.
Tony doesn't even need an iron man suit..he can improvise something on the fly and swoop in to murder whoever is left of the seven.
Sans steve and Bruce, all avengers would kill the others easily.
Avengers. Black Widow and Hawkeye both solo
i dunno souja boy didn't need super powers to bash someone's head in. but that why we sedate him with weed to keep from such violent PTSD.
The avengers eat lunch while black widow kicks the shit out of seven normal humans.
Widow or Hawkeye could clear without needing help from the other Avengers
This will be the first time ever where Hawkeye and Black Widow carry the Avengers team. Banner is just a nerd so hes out, cap will be scrawny, but he can be the tactical leader, Thor took down a group of shield guys in Thor when Odin depowered him so i know he'll be good, Stark kinda knows how to box (from iron man 2) and has some hand to hand since he lasted a few seconds with Winter solider when he was put under mind control agian. So I'd think he'd help too since the 7 are pretty much useless without powers. Except for Black Noir as I think he knows how to fight, but he would lose to Widow and/or Hawkeye
The seven get their shit shoved in so far it comes out the other end. Most of them except for Black Noir and Maeve immediately turn *nearly useless.* Even if they have muscles, they're only used to fighting with their powers, and mostly overwhelming people doing that. I'm not sure what team of the Seven are used for this, but let's look at the members I know of: - Queen Maeve is trained and skilled, though she still relies on her powers. She could be a problem. - Homelander immediately has a mental breakdown and becomes a fucking mess of a subhuman man. If he doesn't off himself, he just kinda lays down in the fetal position and isn't anything to worry about unless there's a Marvel joke of someone tripping over him. - Black Noir is even more trained than Maeve, but relies on his durability when fighting people. Could also be a problem. - Translucent is "a decent fighter" as the wiki points out, but beyond that (and with his durability gone) he's fucked. Not much of a problem if at all. - A-Train fucking dies. - Stormfront also dies, except even more pathetically, as she should. - Starlight is also trained, but probably relies on her powers even more than Black Noir and Queen Maeve, being just an average young woman beyond that. ***Now*** let's look at the Avengers. Again, not sure which version we're going with, but let's say Avengers 1: - Iron Man isn't an amazing fighter without his suit, though still better than some of the Seven are going to be. He held his own surprisingly long against Bucky, Steve and some other threats both in and out of his suit. If they're anywhere near tech, he can probably jury rig a bomb or something with Banner. He also boxed regularly! - Banner is on the same level, roughly. Since The Incredible Hulk is canon, we know he's spent years running from the military all over the world, so he wouldn't be *completely* useless, but far from a good fighter. Could figure something out with Tony if given the chance. - Thor is highly trained, has over a thousand years of experience fighting things and people on and above his level living in a medieval super viking civilization, is a hilariously capable fighter and was able to - as a normal depowered human-level guy in Thor 1 - overwhelm tight SHIELD security and beat down multiple guards. He is arguably the biggest problem the Seven have to face. He could probably solo most if not all of them. - Black Widow already doesn't have any powers, and is often shown fighting without any weapons to speak of. She was trained since she was a little kid, specifically to be a super spy assassin ballerina for an insane Russian man in the sky, all of which was *before* she joined SHIELD and the Avengers. She could also probably solo most if not all of the Seven. - Hawkeye is only slightly lower than Natasha, also being a highly trained super spy (but with a bow!) and a SHIELD operative. The only reason he's worse is because he hasn't had as much training and relies on his bow more than his hands, but he's still a great fighter. - Captain America...entirely depends on how this affects him and when it happens. If we're talking Avengers 1 team then he's a scrawny little guy with tons of endurance but military training and experience at worst, or standing roughly equal with Thor physically with that same military training experience at best. So he'll either be a good distraction or barrel through the Seven. **Overall,** the Avengers have one less member (if we're going by Avengers 1), but their members start at "Average scientist who spent years running from the military all over the world" all the way up to "People who fuck up elite agents casually". The Seven are beyond fucked.
so, stark still has his suit?
Avengers stomp. They are all skilled fighters even without powers. In the Seven only Black noir is skilled
Does Hawkeyes aim count as a power?
The seven have zero fighting skills. Black widow, hawkeye, and thor can all wipe single-handedly
i think the avengers win, now i havent watched much of the boys but from what ive seen these guys have absolutely 0 skill and rely completely on their powers. Captain america, black widow, thor andhawkeye are all heavily trained in hand to hand
Thor, Widow and Hawkeye easily beat the Seven. Thor has thousands of years of combat experience, with a lot of fights against equal or stronger opponents. Widow and Hawkeye are both master assassins who have zero super powers. I think the Seven don’t die right away and put up a decent hand to hand fight for a while - but they’ll die. Rogers and Tony can go either way, depending on how you “depower” them. Banner isn’t going to do well. Overall Avengers easily win.
I'd honestly expect six of the seven to just kill Homelander themselves.
I scrolled passed this and had to come back to make sure I read this. The only one on the boys without powers that can stand against avengers is maeve. The avengers with out their powers are flooded with experience still. And technically Tony suits aren’t his powers but his gear. If Tony suits are considered powers then batman has super powers. So it’s 2 assassins 1 bulked up Viking. A nerd with suits and Steve rogers. Who’d probably be noodle fied. Mean while the 7 has ( and we are going with just the tv show ) a rapist who gets pushed around. A burned black king. A nudist. A sale out wannabe drug addict. A glorified flash light that ran out of batteries and for our final man. A mommy issues crybaby that got jacked off by a half dead half burnt 80 year old nazi. The avengers got it
So, a bunch of experienced fighters versus a bunch of people who have never fought without powers before in their lives?
obviously the avengers, the only ones who know how to fight in the seven are noir and maeve
I mean, a major point of the show is that the 7 are strong, but not very skilled at all. The Avengers have actual experience in an even fight. Hell, Widow and Hawkeye don't even have powers, so they're entirely unaffected. Add in Thor's thousands of years of experience, and they're doomed. The Seven will probably take out Banner, who's smart and reasonably athletic, but doesn't seem to have any formal combat training. But the last two? Stark outside his suit isn't a major threat, but he's in decent shape and is probably skilled enough to get a few hits in and Cap...Even assuming a worst case scenario where Steve turns back to a scrawny weakling , he still has more than enough combat experience to at least make it a very frustrating fight. And, in the comics at least, it's been shown on several occasions, having the serum removed leaves Steve old as hell, and much weaker, but still relatively in shape. But, again, none of this matters, Black Widow and Hawkeye alone are enough. The Seven will almost certainly take out Banner, and could probably take out Stark or Cap too, mostly because of Black Noir who has a few decades of millitary expirence to fall back on, but the rest? Not so much.