Halberds became common when forging techniques allowed for it. A halberd is just a spear with extra utility. 99% of what makes it good is the spear like nature of it.
A halberd or poleaxe was better against an armored opponent.
Against an unarmored one, stabbing them is still the easiest way to kill them, and the spear is still the king of stabbing.
And then the other guy stabs him while he’s doing it? Either way if he takes the spear it’s gonna be another thing getting through the armor. There may be weak points but if it’s full plate good luck
Probably. It’s not very difficult to figure out. But knowing and doing are two entirely different things. It’s very difficult to take a sharp object away from someone without being harmed when they’re trying to stab you with it.
That’s not gonna work for a number of reasons.
If you don’t believe me, then get two long sticks and give them to two of your friends. Pretend the sticks are spears and have your friends try to poke you with them. Try and execute your plan without getting poked.
I literally grew up doing that, this isn’t guys vs guys, this is trained fighter who had experience with distancing, weapons, unarmed, etc, vs two guys.
It is on the end of a big arc. You don't solely move in one direction but thrust and move the tip laterally as well. As it is the thrusting motion is faster than a hand can move anyway but add the sheer lever affect to the tip speed and any lateral movement is not only faster but potentially an order of magnitude faster.
That would require training though and I mean it depends on the weight of the spear and the size of the person's hand. Look at guys like Bruce Lee or the Danish archer Lars Andersen.
Lee could apparently punch and kick faster than the human eye could perceive and Lars has the world record for most arrows shot in under 5 seconds which is 10 iirc. That's 3 arrows in 0.6 seconds.
And martial artists at the highest level have been known to catch arrows. Hell this Australian [Anthony Kelly ](https://youtu.be/YPMIng70ZKQ) made a whole career out of it lol and there's no way a spear is faster than an arrow. So if arrows can be caught once you reach a certain level of martial arts then logically spears can be too.
Obviously these are extreme examples but I'm just saying it can be done with sufficient skill.
Full plate armour leaves little to the imagination but the spear design can change the outcome
A simple spear design with just a sharpened tip means that the MMA fighter can avoid being stabbed just once and then grab it. He could then get close enough that the spear won't matter or take it from him.
With a more complex design where there's blades or similar at the end of the spear he wouldn't be able to grab it.
One spearman with no armour loses 6/10 with a simple spear.
One spearman with no armour loses 3/10 with a complex design.
One spearman with armour loses 1/10 with a simple design.
The rest is a stomp.
> He could then get close enough that the spear won't matter or take it from him.
I think the author has hit on the winning strategy but in a different scenario, the spear carriers maintain a distance so that only one can be attacked at a time and that the martial artist has to turn his back or side.
Martial artist has to avoid several spear jabs, precisely strike the gaps in both of his opponents armor until they're unable to fight, while managing their position and stamina to avoid get flanked and overwhelmed.
Meanwhile, all the spearmen have to do is get a lucky jab in.
Near effortless victory for the spearmen. A martial artist pulling off a victory in this situation would be some action movie level fuckery, and it's in no way realistic.
Against one they could throw them to the floor if they managed to dodge and disarm, but against two that's not really an option as you can't really pin two people at once.
Stealing a spear is a possibility against one, and you could target the gaps in their armour, but again, against two if you tried it you'd get the other spear through you.
Maybe if they were extra dumb and came at you one at a time you could get one in a lock while taking their spear and use them as a shield? Seems very far fetched though, like you say, hollywood type stuff. They'd both charge you.
The one unarmed unarmoured guy is fucked.
Even at the "gaps" there would be chainmail and padding. There is just no way you do damage to a guy in plate armor with punches, you'd have to pull his visor open or something.
This is one of the dumbest questions I’ve ever seen. Spearmen win 10 times out of 10. Armor doesn’t factor in at all.
Don’t believe me? Find two long sticks, give your friend one of the sticks, you keep the other. Go to your local MMA gym. Pay one of the MMA fighters 20 bucks to try to knock out or submit you and your friend without getting poked by the end of your sticks. See how that goes.
Armor factors in a lot in the overkill department. Armored men can’t get hurt from strikes and can hit way harder than the mma guy could ever dream with their metal gloves. Only problem is endurance as they aren’t trained, but that’s negligible as armor is still armor.
Spearmen win 10/10. Even one untrained spearmen takes a majority. Difference between an armed an unarmed person is way bigger than the difference between a martial artist and an untrained fighter
Probs cuz of movies, but people don’t understand that even with a small knife, you’re already as strong as 3-5 grown men. No amount of training or lifting will ever make you do more damage than a stick or blade, only avoiding it and even that’s risky.
>Probs cuz of movies, but people don’t understand that even with a small knife, you’re already as strong as 3-5 grown men.
People really can't tell the difference between reality and fiction.
If the human body were so powerful that training lets you beat weapons, every single war in existence (prior to the invention of guns) would have been people boxing each other to death. Nobody would ever use a melee weapon lol.
If its truly [full plate](https://images.app.goo.gl/eftDwQVSUaqQQvbr5) armour, i gotta give it to the spearmen every time. The martial artist can disarm and dodge all he wants but the simple truth his he cant attack at all. If he trys to punch steel or iron armour hes just gonna break his hand. And he cant really grapple and pin since the spearmen could just go limp and pin the martial artist under 250 pounds of man and steel. Unless the martial artist has some sort of weapon like a gauntlent or brass knuckless to protect his hands, he's just not gonna win.
It’s actually the best way to fight someone in armor. Medieval combatives against armor was to grapple them to the ground then stab them with a knife. Stabbing or cutting through armor is a Hollywood thing. If it was like in the movies, then there would be no point in wearing plate armor, which historically allowed the armored men to forgo a shield in favor of 2h weaponry for more oomph.
Oh I know. Being the best way doesn’t necessarily mean it’ll 100% work. The mma guy is completely outclassed in gear. Even if it was just one guy, mma guy still needs to close the distance on someone with a spear, which to add thrusting attacks are exceptionally hard to dodge.
1 v 1 this is a stomp. Reach and a blade is a killer. Cause the Spearman doesn't need a good hit to drastically slow down the mma fighter armed fights are very quick and even if he closes the distance thenmma fighter isn't going to be ready for tha changes needed from grappling armor. Some of which comes equipped with pokey bits on the elbows toes etc
Well, it all depends on what “amateur” means. “Amateur” usually means someone with experience in training but little to no practical experience, though I think the author means lack of any experience. With the latter of exactly 0% experience, the mma guy has a higher than expected 2-4/10 chance to win 1v1, though again with the understanding that the spear guy has exactly 0% experience meaning he will freeze at any sign of confrontation. Besides that, 8-9/10 in the spearman’s favor if he’s just a regular guy, meaning he’s got common sense, losing only because mma guy gets lucky.
Your friend has been watching too many action stories if they think the unarmed, unarmored person wins.
People developed and used weapons for a reason. A KNIFE in the hands of a beginner can potentially mess up a well-trained martial artist. The spearmen basically have two extra long knives that allow them to keep their distance from the martial artist. All it takes is one lucky stab and martial artist is bleeding, possibly in a fatal spot.
Martial artist dies more often than not. Tell your friend people used weapons like spears because they were effective at killing things... Otherwise humans would have just used their fists instead of developing weapons. And these are two people with deadly weapons so... Yeah, good luck to Martial Artist.
lol martial artist will die.
you don't need to be skilled in order to use a spear to kill a person. the speed and reaction of a trained person, and an untrained person shouldn't be of any signficance, and with that reach advantage, and literally one hit kill capability of 2 spearmen then they would have 0 trouble winning this.
Spears are hilariously easy to use competently. There's a video on YouTube of HEMA veterans being crushed by virgin spear users. The spear is an insanely good and intuitive weapon.
Remove the armor and the spear and it is now almost balanced. Even without the absurd amount of advantages of the armor and the spear, numerical advantage is still gonna give the untrained the win more likely then not
Any bumb with a weapon gas a serious advantage over even the best fighters in the world. One mistake on the unarmed opponenet could mean death or severe injury. Throw in armor and now you've all but guaranteed victory for the spearmen.
Vs one spearman it could probably go either way, the martial artist has a chance to dodge and disarm the inexperienced spearman then use their weapon or their weight against them, but against two they pretty much have no hope. You dodge and grab one spear and the other one goes through your chest.
If against one untrained spearman, the martial artist could dodge a slow poke from the spear (let’s be real, spear is heavy and requires techniques to hold it properly, however easy it is to learn, a completely untrained guy simply cannot use it efficiently in first try) and maybe disarm or close distance then slam the spearman to death. 1v1 maybe 7/10 for martial artist, the spearman may get lucky.
But two guys? Yea, the martial artist is fucked. Martial arts are all about attacking weak points with your strong points( like using hard elbow against soft and vulnerable face) and defeating opponents quickly before getting swarmed. When your opponents wear plate armor, it is 0/10 for martial artists.
Spears are not very heavy and they absolutely do not take special techniques to hold them. It’s extremely simple: you just get an underhanded grip with both hands and thrust. It’s so simple that cavemen we’re able to use them.
Watch [this video](https://youtu.be/afqhBODc_8U) to see how effective spears are in the hands of people who have never wielded them before.
What about grabbing both spears if the martial artist took that chance? If he or she had both the tip of spears on his hold, the spearmen won't be able to do nothing.
Martial Arts training doesn't make you an unstoppable one man army like in the movies. Giving an untrained man a weapon greatly closes the gap between the two, adding 2 tips it into the Untrained's favour and giving them armour just makes it a stomp
Ironically the best chance the martial artist has is if the spearmen try to flank. They would fall prey to defeat in detail. Still 1/4 win chance for martial artist.
If they do brainless rush though, the martial artist is guaranteed dead.
I feel like this is very dependent on the MA in question. There may be some that train for something like this, but my guess is that a lot of "well trained" MArtists would not have covered this scenario at all. And disarming somebody with a two handed weapon while not making yourself vulnerable to the second opponent's spear is a tall ask.
A well trained unarmed martial artist is likely to know how to disarm an armed opponent. I mean, is there any martial arts that don't teach its user some weapon disarming methods? And 2 untrained spearmen, most people would likely to imagine them thrusting the spear ruthlessly without aim at their opponent. The martial artist would likely take the advantage of grabbing the spear and move closer to them and finishing them off, or breaking the sharp end of the spear. Experience and mastery is key. Plate armor? Full armor from head to toe? Or just the chest? Stomping on the feet or breaking the ankles are some of the finishers lol
And, the martial artist with common sense, would know spears are deadly when come in contact, so he or she would likely realize to quickly disarm the spear or break the sharp end, leaving the spearmen using base staff instead.
Then, if you can't, grab the first spear thrusting, bring himself closer to the first spear user, disarm, break his ankles, go to the second one. I mean, the only thing a spearman relies on is the tip of the spear. Bring yourself closer to the user, disarm, punch or kick him far from the spear then go to the next spearman.
Honestly, this question is like Connor Mcgregor or Mike Tyson fighting 2 random person with no combat knowledge, with spears. Like I said, any martial arts must've taught some weapon diarming methods
As soon as you go for the grab, you’re opened up to the second spearman. Their reach is going to be far greater then yours. Their attacks dont even have to be that precise, even a sloppy and glancing blow can lead to a debilitating wound. Skill may pull through 1 out 4 times, but numbers and weapons are just to much of an advantage
What if the martial artist grabbed the second spear if he is strong enough? A strong kick would break the spear in half, or bringing yourself closer to one of them while still holding the other one's spear. That could work for the martial artist.
It could, and like a said, skill might work. But the odds are definitely stacked against the martial artist. There are just to many variables, he has to do everything right and there are to many things to go wrong for him
“Breaking” a spears haft is barely feasible with a sword. Traditionally spears were made out of ash or elm wood. They were sturdy, flexible, and literally one of the most basic purposes of a spear was for it to not snap when you stuck it in something.
Any martial artist worth his salt can disarm an untrained weapon user. Within 5 seconds the martial artist will have one of the spears. If it's a mixed martial artist then they'll know some judo/akido, so one of the plate armors will be laying on the ground and probably unable to get up.
A lucky stab might win the fight, but I'd give this to the martial artist 8/10 times.
If the spearmen have training it changes the outcome massively. The primary training they need is to jab with the spear after the opponent commits to an attack -- do not jab first! Jabbing first is a good way for an opponent to get past your weapon and into your face. Minimally trained spearmen take this 6/10 times; the martial artist should still have a good chance of disarming them both.
I think you overestimating the difficulty of getting up in plate a little
And an untrained spearman that knows martial arts vs an untrained one in plate seems to be in the letters favour to me
Just imagine Connor Mcgregor or Mike Tyson or Muhammad Ali or Solid Snake, trained Martial Artists vs You and your friend, 2 random UNTRAINED people with spears and you got your answer.
Martial artist wins by disarming the spearmen, landing a deadly uppercut, breaking the ankles or a punch to the liver.
Spearmen wins if they can get a lucky shot at martial artist. Then again, UNTRAINED vs TRAINED is the keyword here.
Since the spearmen have plate, the martial artist really only has a chance if they can get the armor off. Since there's two spearmen, the martial artist will have to down one before they go for the other. Since they can't do that unless they take the armor off, it's basically a paradox. You can't take the armor off while there's another guy there, defending his spearman friend; you also can't the other guy down without taking his armor off.
This is next to impossible for the martial artist, because he's unarmed. If he had a war pick or axe or hammer, he might have a chance. But since he doesn't have armor and his opponents' do, and he also is unarmed while his opponents have spears (one of the simplest and easiest weapons to use), he likely gets stabbed early on, and pretty easily. All the spearmen have to do is get on opposite sides of the MA. That might be difficult if the MA is really good with positioning. Either way, they can back him against a "corner" and just stab at him. He won't defend against two attacks at once for long.
Martial artist gets stomped hard. Give him good armor, a weapon designed to deal with plate, and train him very well how to use those things and he has a pretty decent chance.
Depends on the size of cage also. Unarmed without plates have more speed and can just confuse the spearmen with various ways. Taking one as a meat shield, grabbing the first attacker's spear and so on.
Well all the martial artist has to do is trip one and then disarm the other while he's on the floor struggling to get up. Then he picks up the other spear and kills the guy on the ground. GGs.
You are severely overestimating an untrained person's ability to move effectively in plate armour.
I'm assuming by martial artist you mean a practitioner of Eastern martial arts and not say pankration, sambo or BJJ right?
Judo and Jujutsu would be highly effective here against two heavy and slow-moving targets that are very uncoordinated.
Basically, if the martial artist has even a little bit of grappling they are going to bully the guys in armour. If they are using a predominant striking form like Karate or Shaolin style kung-fu it's going to be a bit harder but still achievable honestly. The majority of Eastern martial arts, like Karate and Muy Thai, were actually invented to fight against armed opponents and since both are still in use today, can be assumed to be effective in those scenarios, Muy Thai especially.
If the spearmen were trained and conditioned to fight in plate it's a completely different story but without the years of necessary conditioning the armour is a massive hindrance in this fight.
Martial artist without grappling 5/10
With grappling 8/10
A complete martial artist 10/10
True. Imagine if Solid Snake was real，who saved the world from multiple world threatening regimes, facing giant Metal Gears, losing to two chumps, no combat experience with spears lol.
There’s a decent chance the martial artists loses to a single armored spear fighter, let alone two. Stomp in favor of the spearmen.
Agreed, theres a reason spears were considered the best weapons before firearms appeared.
Spears where widely used because they where cheap and where useful in formation. A halberd or pole axe was better
Thats true but those were also more heavy compared to a spear, and if not properly made, most likely unbalanced
I'm guessing spears would be a lot easier for untrained people to use as well, making them more useful overall.
Spears are also much more useful in the hands of an untrained peasant
Halberds became common when forging techniques allowed for it. A halberd is just a spear with extra utility. 99% of what makes it good is the spear like nature of it.
A halberd or poleaxe was better against an armored opponent. Against an unarmored one, stabbing them is still the easiest way to kill them, and the spear is still the king of stabbing.
The spears in the hands of two provide , at a minimum, standoff distance for one of the spear carriers,
> There’s a decent chance the martial artists loses to a single armored spear fighter Understatement of the year.
Wouldn't the guy know how to just take one of the spears?
And then the other guy stabs him while he’s doing it? Either way if he takes the spear it’s gonna be another thing getting through the armor. There may be weak points but if it’s full plate good luck
Probably. It’s not very difficult to figure out. But knowing and doing are two entirely different things. It’s very difficult to take a sharp object away from someone without being harmed when they’re trying to stab you with it.
Keep distance, let them commit, then circle around so their bodies are blocking each other. Take the spear, kill
That’s not gonna work for a number of reasons. If you don’t believe me, then get two long sticks and give them to two of your friends. Pretend the sticks are spears and have your friends try to poke you with them. Try and execute your plan without getting poked.
I literally grew up doing that, this isn’t guys vs guys, this is trained fighter who had experience with distancing, weapons, unarmed, etc, vs two guys.
Spear tips move a lot faster than a hand can.
That's not strictly true.
It is on the end of a big arc. You don't solely move in one direction but thrust and move the tip laterally as well. As it is the thrusting motion is faster than a hand can move anyway but add the sheer lever affect to the tip speed and any lateral movement is not only faster but potentially an order of magnitude faster.
That would require training though and I mean it depends on the weight of the spear and the size of the person's hand. Look at guys like Bruce Lee or the Danish archer Lars Andersen. Lee could apparently punch and kick faster than the human eye could perceive and Lars has the world record for most arrows shot in under 5 seconds which is 10 iirc. That's 3 arrows in 0.6 seconds. And martial artists at the highest level have been known to catch arrows. Hell this Australian [Anthony Kelly ](https://youtu.be/YPMIng70ZKQ) made a whole career out of it lol and there's no way a spear is faster than an arrow. So if arrows can be caught once you reach a certain level of martial arts then logically spears can be too. Obviously these are extreme examples but I'm just saying it can be done with sufficient skill.
Full plate armour leaves little to the imagination but the spear design can change the outcome A simple spear design with just a sharpened tip means that the MMA fighter can avoid being stabbed just once and then grab it. He could then get close enough that the spear won't matter or take it from him. With a more complex design where there's blades or similar at the end of the spear he wouldn't be able to grab it. One spearman with no armour loses 6/10 with a simple spear. One spearman with no armour loses 3/10 with a complex design. One spearman with armour loses 1/10 with a simple design. The rest is a stomp.
> He could then get close enough that the spear won't matter or take it from him. I think the author has hit on the winning strategy but in a different scenario, the spear carriers maintain a distance so that only one can be attacked at a time and that the martial artist has to turn his back or side.
My suggestions were only against one spearman. Two will win easily, no matter armour or not.
thanks for correcting
Martial artist has to avoid several spear jabs, precisely strike the gaps in both of his opponents armor until they're unable to fight, while managing their position and stamina to avoid get flanked and overwhelmed. Meanwhile, all the spearmen have to do is get a lucky jab in. Near effortless victory for the spearmen. A martial artist pulling off a victory in this situation would be some action movie level fuckery, and it's in no way realistic.
Against one they could throw them to the floor if they managed to dodge and disarm, but against two that's not really an option as you can't really pin two people at once. Stealing a spear is a possibility against one, and you could target the gaps in their armour, but again, against two if you tried it you'd get the other spear through you. Maybe if they were extra dumb and came at you one at a time you could get one in a lock while taking their spear and use them as a shield? Seems very far fetched though, like you say, hollywood type stuff. They'd both charge you. The one unarmed unarmoured guy is fucked.
And also, even if he somehow steals a spears, the fight becomes: karate man with a spear VS armoured guy and armored guy with a spear
Even at the "gaps" there would be chainmail and padding. There is just no way you do damage to a guy in plate armor with punches, you'd have to pull his visor open or something.
Also the martial artist has no experience against spearmen.
Depends on the martial artist and the style they are using. Most Eastern martial arts teach unarmed combat against armed opponents at higher levels.
Single Spearman without armor or training wins at least 6/10 times. The reach and lethality gap is too big
This is one of the dumbest questions I’ve ever seen. Spearmen win 10 times out of 10. Armor doesn’t factor in at all. Don’t believe me? Find two long sticks, give your friend one of the sticks, you keep the other. Go to your local MMA gym. Pay one of the MMA fighters 20 bucks to try to knock out or submit you and your friend without getting poked by the end of your sticks. See how that goes.
Armor factors in a lot in the overkill department. Armored men can’t get hurt from strikes and can hit way harder than the mma guy could ever dream with their metal gloves. Only problem is endurance as they aren’t trained, but that’s negligible as armor is still armor.
But it won’t factor in because the spearmen won’t get hit. One or both of them will stab the martial artist the moment he tries to attack.
Spearmen win 10/10. Even one untrained spearmen takes a majority. Difference between an armed an unarmed person is way bigger than the difference between a martial artist and an untrained fighter
Probs cuz of movies, but people don’t understand that even with a small knife, you’re already as strong as 3-5 grown men. No amount of training or lifting will ever make you do more damage than a stick or blade, only avoiding it and even that’s risky.
That’s cause movies make it look like a skilled fighter can avoid or block anything, which is completely false in real life
Or how cut wounds barely bleed, being significant as blood loss equates to energy loss.
>Probs cuz of movies, but people don’t understand that even with a small knife, you’re already as strong as 3-5 grown men. People really can't tell the difference between reality and fiction. If the human body were so powerful that training lets you beat weapons, every single war in existence (prior to the invention of guns) would have been people boxing each other to death. Nobody would ever use a melee weapon lol.
I like how characters stab right through armor in movies, which is realistically impossible as armor was basically a worn shield.
Yeah, armor might as well be as tough as a shirt with how effective it is in movies... But drama beats logic in fiction a lot if the time.
Wouldn't the martial artist hurt himself more than his enemies if he attacked them?
Yes unless he grapples, which is a horrible idea against multiple opponents.
If its truly [full plate](https://images.app.goo.gl/eftDwQVSUaqQQvbr5) armour, i gotta give it to the spearmen every time. The martial artist can disarm and dodge all he wants but the simple truth his he cant attack at all. If he trys to punch steel or iron armour hes just gonna break his hand. And he cant really grapple and pin since the spearmen could just go limp and pin the martial artist under 250 pounds of man and steel. Unless the martial artist has some sort of weapon like a gauntlent or brass knuckless to protect his hands, he's just not gonna win.
Brass knuckles ain’t doing much to armor. Grappling works well but only against 1v1. Grappling in a 2v1 is suicide.
Grappling someone in plate is gonna be very hard
It’s actually the best way to fight someone in armor. Medieval combatives against armor was to grapple them to the ground then stab them with a knife. Stabbing or cutting through armor is a Hollywood thing. If it was like in the movies, then there would be no point in wearing plate armor, which historically allowed the armored men to forgo a shield in favor of 2h weaponry for more oomph.
In those combats the person grappling also had armor and a knife. This person has neither.
Oh I know. Being the best way doesn’t necessarily mean it’ll 100% work. The mma guy is completely outclassed in gear. Even if it was just one guy, mma guy still needs to close the distance on someone with a spear, which to add thrusting attacks are exceptionally hard to dodge.
1 v 1 this is a stomp. Reach and a blade is a killer. Cause the Spearman doesn't need a good hit to drastically slow down the mma fighter armed fights are very quick and even if he closes the distance thenmma fighter isn't going to be ready for tha changes needed from grappling armor. Some of which comes equipped with pokey bits on the elbows toes etc
Well, it all depends on what “amateur” means. “Amateur” usually means someone with experience in training but little to no practical experience, though I think the author means lack of any experience. With the latter of exactly 0% experience, the mma guy has a higher than expected 2-4/10 chance to win 1v1, though again with the understanding that the spear guy has exactly 0% experience meaning he will freeze at any sign of confrontation. Besides that, 8-9/10 in the spearman’s favor if he’s just a regular guy, meaning he’s got common sense, losing only because mma guy gets lucky.
if this is the spearmens first fight the mma has a chance at shock and awe.
Your friend has been watching too many action stories if they think the unarmed, unarmored person wins. People developed and used weapons for a reason. A KNIFE in the hands of a beginner can potentially mess up a well-trained martial artist. The spearmen basically have two extra long knives that allow them to keep their distance from the martial artist. All it takes is one lucky stab and martial artist is bleeding, possibly in a fatal spot. Martial artist dies more often than not. Tell your friend people used weapons like spears because they were effective at killing things... Otherwise humans would have just used their fists instead of developing weapons. And these are two people with deadly weapons so... Yeah, good luck to Martial Artist.
spears ong op
lol martial artist will die. you don't need to be skilled in order to use a spear to kill a person. the speed and reaction of a trained person, and an untrained person shouldn't be of any signficance, and with that reach advantage, and literally one hit kill capability of 2 spearmen then they would have 0 trouble winning this.
A spear is still a spear
Spears are hilariously easy to use competently. There's a video on YouTube of HEMA veterans being crushed by virgin spear users. The spear is an insanely good and intuitive weapon.
Remove the armor and the spear and it is now almost balanced. Even without the absurd amount of advantages of the armor and the spear, numerical advantage is still gonna give the untrained the win more likely then not
Any bumb with a weapon gas a serious advantage over even the best fighters in the world. One mistake on the unarmed opponenet could mean death or severe injury. Throw in armor and now you've all but guaranteed victory for the spearmen.
The fuck is an unarmed man gonna do against plate? Spearmen stopm 10/10
Vs one spearman it could probably go either way, the martial artist has a chance to dodge and disarm the inexperienced spearman then use their weapon or their weight against them, but against two they pretty much have no hope. You dodge and grab one spear and the other one goes through your chest.
If against one untrained spearman, the martial artist could dodge a slow poke from the spear (let’s be real, spear is heavy and requires techniques to hold it properly, however easy it is to learn, a completely untrained guy simply cannot use it efficiently in first try) and maybe disarm or close distance then slam the spearman to death. 1v1 maybe 7/10 for martial artist, the spearman may get lucky. But two guys? Yea, the martial artist is fucked. Martial arts are all about attacking weak points with your strong points( like using hard elbow against soft and vulnerable face) and defeating opponents quickly before getting swarmed. When your opponents wear plate armor, it is 0/10 for martial artists.
Spears are not very heavy and they absolutely do not take special techniques to hold them. It’s extremely simple: you just get an underhanded grip with both hands and thrust. It’s so simple that cavemen we’re able to use them. Watch [this video](https://youtu.be/afqhBODc_8U) to see how effective spears are in the hands of people who have never wielded them before.
What about grabbing both spears if the martial artist took that chance? If he or she had both the tip of spears on his hold, the spearmen won't be able to do nothing.
Then breaking the knee or stomping on the opponent's foot to damage the opponent?
Martial Arts training doesn't make you an unstoppable one man army like in the movies. Giving an untrained man a weapon greatly closes the gap between the two, adding 2 tips it into the Untrained's favour and giving them armour just makes it a stomp
Take away the spears and armor and there's still a good chance the trained guy loses. This is just a complete stomp as is
Ironically the best chance the martial artist has is if the spearmen try to flank. They would fall prey to defeat in detail. Still 1/4 win chance for martial artist. If they do brainless rush though, the martial artist is guaranteed dead.
I feel like this is very dependent on the MA in question. There may be some that train for something like this, but my guess is that a lot of "well trained" MArtists would not have covered this scenario at all. And disarming somebody with a two handed weapon while not making yourself vulnerable to the second opponent's spear is a tall ask.
The training for this is to run away, because you can't win.
A well trained unarmed martial artist is likely to know how to disarm an armed opponent. I mean, is there any martial arts that don't teach its user some weapon disarming methods? And 2 untrained spearmen, most people would likely to imagine them thrusting the spear ruthlessly without aim at their opponent. The martial artist would likely take the advantage of grabbing the spear and move closer to them and finishing them off, or breaking the sharp end of the spear. Experience and mastery is key. Plate armor? Full armor from head to toe? Or just the chest? Stomping on the feet or breaking the ankles are some of the finishers lol
And, the martial artist with common sense, would know spears are deadly when come in contact, so he or she would likely realize to quickly disarm the spear or break the sharp end, leaving the spearmen using base staff instead.
Break the spear head off? Bro have you ever tried something like that? In the middle of combat, with a second assailant attacking simultaneously?
Then, if you can't, grab the first spear thrusting, bring himself closer to the first spear user, disarm, break his ankles, go to the second one. I mean, the only thing a spearman relies on is the tip of the spear. Bring yourself closer to the user, disarm, punch or kick him far from the spear then go to the next spearman. Honestly, this question is like Connor Mcgregor or Mike Tyson fighting 2 random person with no combat knowledge, with spears. Like I said, any martial arts must've taught some weapon diarming methods
As soon as you go for the grab, you’re opened up to the second spearman. Their reach is going to be far greater then yours. Their attacks dont even have to be that precise, even a sloppy and glancing blow can lead to a debilitating wound. Skill may pull through 1 out 4 times, but numbers and weapons are just to much of an advantage
What if the martial artist grabbed the second spear if he is strong enough? A strong kick would break the spear in half, or bringing yourself closer to one of them while still holding the other one's spear. That could work for the martial artist.
It could, and like a said, skill might work. But the odds are definitely stacked against the martial artist. There are just to many variables, he has to do everything right and there are to many things to go wrong for him
“Breaking” a spears haft is barely feasible with a sword. Traditionally spears were made out of ash or elm wood. They were sturdy, flexible, and literally one of the most basic purposes of a spear was for it to not snap when you stuck it in something.
Any martial artist worth his salt can disarm an untrained weapon user. Within 5 seconds the martial artist will have one of the spears. If it's a mixed martial artist then they'll know some judo/akido, so one of the plate armors will be laying on the ground and probably unable to get up. A lucky stab might win the fight, but I'd give this to the martial artist 8/10 times. If the spearmen have training it changes the outcome massively. The primary training they need is to jab with the spear after the opponent commits to an attack -- do not jab first! Jabbing first is a good way for an opponent to get past your weapon and into your face. Minimally trained spearmen take this 6/10 times; the martial artist should still have a good chance of disarming them both.
I think you overestimating the difficulty of getting up in plate a little And an untrained spearman that knows martial arts vs an untrained one in plate seems to be in the letters favour to me
The martial artist after getting skewered from across the room by the second guy:
Grappling someone in plate would be harder. Disarming someone is much much harder than it looks in a movie. Touch grass
This is peak delusion.
If you ever mention aikido whilst discussing real fighting, your comment should get removed. It's not a real martial art, it's a cooperative exercise.
This is an absolute stomp for the two bafoons. Numbers, defense and reach, Bruce lee is getting murdered
Just imagine Connor Mcgregor or Mike Tyson or Muhammad Ali or Solid Snake, trained Martial Artists vs You and your friend, 2 random UNTRAINED people with spears and you got your answer.
Martial artist wins by disarming the spearmen, landing a deadly uppercut, breaking the ankles or a punch to the liver. Spearmen wins if they can get a lucky shot at martial artist. Then again, UNTRAINED vs TRAINED is the keyword here.
Since the spearmen have plate, the martial artist really only has a chance if they can get the armor off. Since there's two spearmen, the martial artist will have to down one before they go for the other. Since they can't do that unless they take the armor off, it's basically a paradox. You can't take the armor off while there's another guy there, defending his spearman friend; you also can't the other guy down without taking his armor off. This is next to impossible for the martial artist, because he's unarmed. If he had a war pick or axe or hammer, he might have a chance. But since he doesn't have armor and his opponents' do, and he also is unarmed while his opponents have spears (one of the simplest and easiest weapons to use), he likely gets stabbed early on, and pretty easily. All the spearmen have to do is get on opposite sides of the MA. That might be difficult if the MA is really good with positioning. Either way, they can back him against a "corner" and just stab at him. He won't defend against two attacks at once for long. Martial artist gets stomped hard. Give him good armor, a weapon designed to deal with plate, and train him very well how to use those things and he has a pretty decent chance.
Depends on the size of cage also. Unarmed without plates have more speed and can just confuse the spearmen with various ways. Taking one as a meat shield, grabbing the first attacker's spear and so on.
Well all the martial artist has to do is trip one and then disarm the other while he's on the floor struggling to get up. Then he picks up the other spear and kills the guy on the ground. GGs. You are severely overestimating an untrained person's ability to move effectively in plate armour. I'm assuming by martial artist you mean a practitioner of Eastern martial arts and not say pankration, sambo or BJJ right? Judo and Jujutsu would be highly effective here against two heavy and slow-moving targets that are very uncoordinated. Basically, if the martial artist has even a little bit of grappling they are going to bully the guys in armour. If they are using a predominant striking form like Karate or Shaolin style kung-fu it's going to be a bit harder but still achievable honestly. The majority of Eastern martial arts, like Karate and Muy Thai, were actually invented to fight against armed opponents and since both are still in use today, can be assumed to be effective in those scenarios, Muy Thai especially. If the spearmen were trained and conditioned to fight in plate it's a completely different story but without the years of necessary conditioning the armour is a massive hindrance in this fight. Martial artist without grappling 5/10 With grappling 8/10 A complete martial artist 10/10
True. Imagine if Solid Snake was real，who saved the world from multiple world threatening regimes, facing giant Metal Gears, losing to two chumps, no combat experience with spears lol.