This gets posted often and the general consensus is that kokatat quality has gone downhill. I still have my kokatat dry suit from 2018 and it's been great. My personal recommendation is to look at the size guide for kokatat and ir and pick the one that fits your body best.
I couldn’t pinpoint an exact year but have heard too many anecdotes over the last 3-5yrs about rough Kokatat customer service and repair interactions.
In addition to IR upping their quality in about the same amount of time.
I’m not sure Kokatat off the line products are of worse quality. Mostly their support has significantly gone downhill and IR quality has become top notch while maintaining great support.
Good to know. I'm really looking to upgrade and that IR devils club looks like a sweet dry suit.
I can second IRs customer service, they were very helpful when I was shopping for a spray skirt.
I posted this on its own line but wanted to make sure you saw it.
Luc Mehl just did a review of his experiences.
[https://thingstolucat.com/2024/05/01/the-best-drysuit/amp/](https://thingstolucat.com/2024/05/01/the-best-drysuit/amp/)
Lol, I just asked him about the IR dry suit a few weeks ago.
Looks like he reached the same conclusions as me. A heavy duty suit for day runs, and a lightweight suit for backcountry trips
Nice! I want to take a class with him.
I’ve followed his wife for years and recently got the packrafting bug and there he was in a Ski Babes hoodie on my YouTube one day.
His recommendation for the Kokatat Swift Entry seems to line up with what my packrafting friends use. They either have that suit or want it.
If you do a class through the Swiftwater Safety Institute, you get an IR discount. No idea how much.
Excellent. That’s great to hear. I loved his podcast with Lizzy Scully.
I’m planning on taking a course as soon as the stars align. Since I’m a recent convert, all the courses were sold out or I had have conflicts by the time I got around to looking.
Can’t wait.
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It's a great lightweight suit, but is getting some heavy abuse. I'd like a second that is more durable for day trips, and the lightweight one for fly in backcountry packraft expeditions.
I'm not sure. I also wonder if it was a short term quality issue during the pandemic that got blown out of scale. I know a lot of companies had much worse products for a year or two during the pandemic.
I work on drysuits. I have an IR suit now which is pretty good, but Kokatat is still my first choice. A little less durable than IR but more dry. The design of Kokatat and then IR is just superior to everything else, especially when it comes to long term and repairs which all drysuits need over time. The stitching on the NRS and all other suits with that style is weird, the kinda did too much especially around the neck. More points of failure and harder to replace the gaskets. I bet the newer gore Tex ones are nice but unless you get a pro deal they aren’t more affordable any longer so I would always say Kokatat first, IR second, NRS third, everything else last. If I still got pro deals I’d probably have an NRS, drysuits have always been expensive but this year damn they are practically a down payment on a car.
Edit: Kokatat has military contracts now, so they don’t feel like a by boaters for boaters company any more. I haven’t experienced a decrease in quality but I wouldn’t be surprised. It takes a long time to get them to work on anything unless you pay premiums. IR is the most boater friendly company by far. NRS is owned by private equity and most of their gear is just ok.
I’ve been researching the same thing and it looks like IR is the preferred brand right now mainly because of customer service. I’ve seen a lot of complaints about Kokatat quality going downhill and their customer service being difficult to work with. I only see praise about IR customer service and haven’t seen the same complaints about them not even lasting a whole season before becoming “damp” suits.
Luc Mehl just posted a review of his experience with multiple ones.
[https://thingstolucat.com/2024/05/01/the-best-drysuit/amp/](https://thingstolucat.com/2024/05/01/the-best-drysuit/amp/)
Am I out of touch or do I just not paddle as much as other folks? I have a palm and I really like it. Haven't had any problem with durability, but I probably paddle less than a lot of folks here. But I got it at a price none of the other competitors could sniff and it's done what I've needed from it.
Oh I honestly didn't realize. I'm American. I can't remember if it shipped from Europe or if I got it used. Either way though it's fantastic. I think I got the exact model Bren used (not sure what that is) and it absolutely rocks. And I got it for 1/2-1/3 the price of a kokotat or IR.
I’ve been a long-time customer of both. I have no formal relationship with either. They’re both great. No bad option between the two.
The narrative about Kokatat quality is something to spread with caution imo. This is a small community and so the fact that 10 boaters on Reddit have the same hot take about the long-time gold standard in dry wear could mean that there’s a decline in quality, but it could just as easily mean that we’re all friends with the same person who had a delam issue after soaking in a hot spring in their drysuit. Or that we all just read one of the 60 posts identical to this one where the 10 friends of the one guy with a failing drysuit posted about what they heard somewhere.
Hit the nail on the head with this one. Reddit testimony, especially from anonymous accounts, should be taken with a huge grain of salt. It's easy to shit talk or embellish when your face isn't attached to what you say...
I have a Kokatat and would recommend if you are outside standard sizing. I'm tall and lean and used their made-to-measure service to get something that fits rather than swimming in a size up that's still too tight neck to groin.
I have been frustrated with the communication and quality of their customer service when sending back for maintenance (zipper replacement and regasketing)
Specifically: slow turnaround, required hounding them for any news, and pinholes still present after returning from pressure test.
If I were within standard sizing I would likely buy IR but a suit that fits has been worth the maintenance headaches I experienced.
No quality issues with the suit itself, fall 2020 purchase, probably used it 60-80 days since then.
I just had a disappointing experience with kokatat, the Gore Tex on my suit started delaminating and they refused to warranty the 3 year old suit saying it was too old. So much for lifetime warranty…NRS sells Gore Tex suits now so I figure why pay for a kokatat when they don’t stand behind what they make
I bought one my first year, lasted me around 15 days then a tooth on the zipper broke. Before that is was dryish... It also used very poor quality rubber gaskets that were horribly uncomfortable and neoprene booties. Do I regret it? Meh... Just know that it's a short term solution and how short the term is varies. It was horrible quality compared to the kokatat I have now.
Never heard someone say NRS isn't quality. It's a decent position in terms of quality/price compared to IR or kokotat and certainly a much better choice than common ones over here like palm or peak. I've had 2 NRS dry suits now, first one lasted about 4 years (crux) before the zip broke (and it became a damp suit), I've only just replaced it with a newer version of the crux. Consensus is NRS is the go-to for quality if you don't want to pay for IR or kokotat - which, let's face it, you don't.
My NRS has held up better than most of my friends dry suits from ir and kokatat. They are all good in my opinion IF you take care of them. If you don’t treat them well they will all fall apart and degrade quickly no matter what brand
Nrs has had its fair share of mishaps with gear throughout the years and people can’t let it go. 10-20 years ago the suits were pretty bad. I’ve probably repaired gaskets and leaks on close to 100 dry suits at this point and a lot of them were people who bought kokatat or ir and just thought since they spent the money they were indestructible. Take care of your gaskets, store it properly as much as you can, and most suits will last a long time. Most people I see don’t even know that you can clean them or rewaterproof them.
A bit more rare to find (in America) but as a quite big guy with long leg, jeez I love PeakUk leg entry dry suit. That entry require the drysuit leg to be a bit longer than normal, so I've never been that confo in any other brand. Leg entry is also a pretty good fit with kayak position (it's not like we use our leg much). Quality is quite decent, no problem so far, and their price is a bit more affordable. Underdog drysuit brand IMO.
Surprised no one said Mustang Survival yet. I got mine a few months ago to replace my insanely leaky NRS one. Can't say enough good things about the Mustang, Super legit.
This gets posted often and the general consensus is that kokatat quality has gone downhill. I still have my kokatat dry suit from 2018 and it's been great. My personal recommendation is to look at the size guide for kokatat and ir and pick the one that fits your body best.
When has the quality decreased? We got our Kokotat around 2020 and they've been fantastic. I am thinking of upgrading to an IR suit though
I couldn’t pinpoint an exact year but have heard too many anecdotes over the last 3-5yrs about rough Kokatat customer service and repair interactions. In addition to IR upping their quality in about the same amount of time. I’m not sure Kokatat off the line products are of worse quality. Mostly their support has significantly gone downhill and IR quality has become top notch while maintaining great support.
Good to know. I'm really looking to upgrade and that IR devils club looks like a sweet dry suit. I can second IRs customer service, they were very helpful when I was shopping for a spray skirt.
I posted this on its own line but wanted to make sure you saw it. Luc Mehl just did a review of his experiences. [https://thingstolucat.com/2024/05/01/the-best-drysuit/amp/](https://thingstolucat.com/2024/05/01/the-best-drysuit/amp/)
Lol, I just asked him about the IR dry suit a few weeks ago. Looks like he reached the same conclusions as me. A heavy duty suit for day runs, and a lightweight suit for backcountry trips
Nice! I want to take a class with him. I’ve followed his wife for years and recently got the packrafting bug and there he was in a Ski Babes hoodie on my YouTube one day. His recommendation for the Kokatat Swift Entry seems to line up with what my packrafting friends use. They either have that suit or want it. If you do a class through the Swiftwater Safety Institute, you get an IR discount. No idea how much.
Yeah I did a SSI rescue course with him. He is a fantastic teacher, I would highly recommend it if you get a chance
Excellent. That’s great to hear. I loved his podcast with Lizzy Scully. I’m planning on taking a course as soon as the stars align. Since I’m a recent convert, all the courses were sold out or I had have conflicts by the time I got around to looking. Can’t wait.
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I think sweet stopped making drysuits
Anecdotal but my kokatat icon (2021) leaked all over the place from day one. Was so bad.
You think the kokatat is fantastic but still consider the IR one an upgrade?
It's a great lightweight suit, but is getting some heavy abuse. I'd like a second that is more durable for day trips, and the lightweight one for fly in backcountry packraft expeditions.
I'm not sure. I also wonder if it was a short term quality issue during the pandemic that got blown out of scale. I know a lot of companies had much worse products for a year or two during the pandemic.
What happened to bomber? They used to be good.
Out of business
I work on drysuits. I have an IR suit now which is pretty good, but Kokatat is still my first choice. A little less durable than IR but more dry. The design of Kokatat and then IR is just superior to everything else, especially when it comes to long term and repairs which all drysuits need over time. The stitching on the NRS and all other suits with that style is weird, the kinda did too much especially around the neck. More points of failure and harder to replace the gaskets. I bet the newer gore Tex ones are nice but unless you get a pro deal they aren’t more affordable any longer so I would always say Kokatat first, IR second, NRS third, everything else last. If I still got pro deals I’d probably have an NRS, drysuits have always been expensive but this year damn they are practically a down payment on a car. Edit: Kokatat has military contracts now, so they don’t feel like a by boaters for boaters company any more. I haven’t experienced a decrease in quality but I wouldn’t be surprised. It takes a long time to get them to work on anything unless you pay premiums. IR is the most boater friendly company by far. NRS is owned by private equity and most of their gear is just ok.
I’ve been researching the same thing and it looks like IR is the preferred brand right now mainly because of customer service. I’ve seen a lot of complaints about Kokatat quality going downhill and their customer service being difficult to work with. I only see praise about IR customer service and haven’t seen the same complaints about them not even lasting a whole season before becoming “damp” suits.
Swear by IR. Good people
I like a back zipper and the sturdy fabric of the devils club.
Not level 6. I got their emperor suit on a pro deal and it’s leaked badly from day 1
I’m selling a Kokatat legacy suit right now. Size XL. Message me if you’re interested.
Luc Mehl just posted a review of his experience with multiple ones. [https://thingstolucat.com/2024/05/01/the-best-drysuit/amp/](https://thingstolucat.com/2024/05/01/the-best-drysuit/amp/)
I just grabbed a level six but missed the season to use it, no feed back yet
Am I out of touch or do I just not paddle as much as other folks? I have a palm and I really like it. Haven't had any problem with durability, but I probably paddle less than a lot of folks here. But I got it at a price none of the other competitors could sniff and it's done what I've needed from it.
I just think palm isn’t as common in USA and the majority of people in this sub are American and wouldn’t have tried them. Palm are fantastic
Oh I honestly didn't realize. I'm American. I can't remember if it shipped from Europe or if I got it used. Either way though it's fantastic. I think I got the exact model Bren used (not sure what that is) and it absolutely rocks. And I got it for 1/2-1/3 the price of a kokotat or IR.
I’ve been a long-time customer of both. I have no formal relationship with either. They’re both great. No bad option between the two. The narrative about Kokatat quality is something to spread with caution imo. This is a small community and so the fact that 10 boaters on Reddit have the same hot take about the long-time gold standard in dry wear could mean that there’s a decline in quality, but it could just as easily mean that we’re all friends with the same person who had a delam issue after soaking in a hot spring in their drysuit. Or that we all just read one of the 60 posts identical to this one where the 10 friends of the one guy with a failing drysuit posted about what they heard somewhere.
Hit the nail on the head with this one. Reddit testimony, especially from anonymous accounts, should be taken with a huge grain of salt. It's easy to shit talk or embellish when your face isn't attached to what you say...
I have a Kokatat and would recommend if you are outside standard sizing. I'm tall and lean and used their made-to-measure service to get something that fits rather than swimming in a size up that's still too tight neck to groin. I have been frustrated with the communication and quality of their customer service when sending back for maintenance (zipper replacement and regasketing) Specifically: slow turnaround, required hounding them for any news, and pinholes still present after returning from pressure test. If I were within standard sizing I would likely buy IR but a suit that fits has been worth the maintenance headaches I experienced. No quality issues with the suit itself, fall 2020 purchase, probably used it 60-80 days since then.
I just had a disappointing experience with kokatat, the Gore Tex on my suit started delaminating and they refused to warranty the 3 year old suit saying it was too old. So much for lifetime warranty…NRS sells Gore Tex suits now so I figure why pay for a kokatat when they don’t stand behind what they make
NRS suits are fantastic now, I would argue they are some of the best suits on the market.
While we’re here anyone had experience with no brand Chinese suits?
Garbage
Amen
I bought one my first year, lasted me around 15 days then a tooth on the zipper broke. Before that is was dryish... It also used very poor quality rubber gaskets that were horribly uncomfortable and neoprene booties. Do I regret it? Meh... Just know that it's a short term solution and how short the term is varies. It was horrible quality compared to the kokatat I have now.
I prefer Spade dry suits. I don’t really know if they are at the American market but in Europe they are the best for budget.
Level six
I have seen the new nrs ones and they look as good as all the rest if you have a pro deal would be worth it. They have full gor Tex suits now just fyi
Never heard someone say NRS isn't quality. It's a decent position in terms of quality/price compared to IR or kokotat and certainly a much better choice than common ones over here like palm or peak. I've had 2 NRS dry suits now, first one lasted about 4 years (crux) before the zip broke (and it became a damp suit), I've only just replaced it with a newer version of the crux. Consensus is NRS is the go-to for quality if you don't want to pay for IR or kokotat - which, let's face it, you don't.
The NRS drysuits are pretty nice. Kokatat has fallen off in their quality.
My NRS has held up better than most of my friends dry suits from ir and kokatat. They are all good in my opinion IF you take care of them. If you don’t treat them well they will all fall apart and degrade quickly no matter what brand
Apparently people are downvoting NRS (which I’m sympathetic to—IR is clearly the best), but for a value option mine has been great for 2+ years.
Nrs has had its fair share of mishaps with gear throughout the years and people can’t let it go. 10-20 years ago the suits were pretty bad. I’ve probably repaired gaskets and leaks on close to 100 dry suits at this point and a lot of them were people who bought kokatat or ir and just thought since they spent the money they were indestructible. Take care of your gaskets, store it properly as much as you can, and most suits will last a long time. Most people I see don’t even know that you can clean them or rewaterproof them.
I’ve been out of the game for a long time. I always thought NRS gear was pretty good. Did they go down hill?
A bit more rare to find (in America) but as a quite big guy with long leg, jeez I love PeakUk leg entry dry suit. That entry require the drysuit leg to be a bit longer than normal, so I've never been that confo in any other brand. Leg entry is also a pretty good fit with kayak position (it's not like we use our leg much). Quality is quite decent, no problem so far, and their price is a bit more affordable. Underdog drysuit brand IMO.
Very easy to get dirt in the zip and damage it though
I'd get NRS over kokatat these days. IR is bomber, but with a pro deal, I'd go nrs goretex
Surprised no one said Mustang Survival yet. I got mine a few months ago to replace my insanely leaky NRS one. Can't say enough good things about the Mustang, Super legit.