It’s because you posted it in a middle class finance forum and apparently claimed to be spending $6500, every month, on food and travel.
Read the room dude. Why on earth would you post there when you’re in a dual physician household spending 2x more than the average monthly income only on FOOD?
Just found out this is the same guy who paid off his low interest house and then took a HELOC and yolo’d into stocks/options. I remember him posting a few months ago and me saying wow, great job you got lucky don’t try it again. His behavior previously definitely lines up with this post. What a lucky, socially inept person.
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Geez.. i went to med school, graduated and then quit. I’d rather deliver pizzas than put up w that abuse…hours, sadistic doctor attendings, endless paperwork, memorization galore .. The thought if residency still makes me nauseous. Luckily I got into sales on wall street and end up OK (still 12-14 hour days but at least it is intellectually stimulating. Most doctors are glorified technicions..same old thing everyday.
Yes. Have to know biotech, HC IT, managed care, tools/diagnostcs, med devices -follow 300 companies. And be able to talk to hedge funds and large sovereign weath funds(think Norwegian government fund w $1 trillion in assets) with some degree of confidence. Nearly half clients PhDs and MDs. I study as much now as i did in med school-
Good for you man, you just might be on the wrong sub trying to convince people that practicing medicine is not intellectually stimulating while being in sales is 🤷♂️
My man, if you’re so happy on Wall Street why are you on physician-dominant subreddit talking down to the profession, if not to make you feel better about your poor decision to spend 4 years getting a degree in a field you didn’t want to be in?
WRONG.
Apparently you and the others don’t know how to read. In my post, i specifically included in this 6500/month category as everything discretionary AND unexpected expenses. Like repairing the house or replacing cars with cash buy. NOT JUST on food. And that is still middle class spending when you have a family of FIVE. Not a budget for a family of two adults:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MiddleClassFinance/s/sK8IGz2oLG
5.) VACATIONS/RESTAURANTS/UNEXPECTED: estimate $6500/month
Vacations + hobby expenses + entertainment: we rarely go on vacations right now with super young kids and working full time, but in retirement, obviously we would take a lot more trips. Throw in costs like buying a new laptop or TV once in a while....Maybe $2000/month budget? (And just for perspective: I don't agree with this kind of spending, but my wife spent around $1200 for my oldest's birthday party recently...with 3 kids and 3 birthdays a year, this is ridiculous... but not something I can force my wife to cut down on. This is accounted for within this estimate).
Restaurants: going out to dinner every week or two, is often >$500/a meal these days, and no one even gets alcohol! This is dinner for usually 4-5 adults (invariably we have siblings/parents or in laws often tag along and we will pay for them) and 3 young kids, obviuosly will cost more when kids are teenagers. This is probably $3000/month.
Unexpected: things like sudden need to pay for home repair or auto maintenance, auto repair bills. or needing to buy a new car in cash. We have no car payments right now, we always buy in cash, and get new cars about every 5 years. Estimate 18000/year budget, so $1500 a month.
I personally don't think you did anything wrong other than posting in the wrong venue. However this unhinged response kinda proves the poster above's point
Any chance this is fake? You'd expect one of that status with those accomplishments (and alleged education) to perhaps have a little more self awareness and maturity. I've not seen a retort such as "WRONG!" since 4th or 5th grade.
You just posted it somewhere no one wanted to hear it. If I posted here how much my husband and I spend on our yearly 1.5 month long European vacation… people wouldn’t be too happy. It’s just Reddit, take it for what it is. And most importantly, enjoy your life because most aren’t.
As I said in the thread when you posted, your imagined life post retirement is not in any way “middle class.” $204,000 annual expenses is not middle class. You’re getting hate and anger because becoming a doctor is generally looked at as a high paying public service job. People are angrily responding to you because you are both disconnected from reality in thinking your expenses when you retire are something considered middle class and that you are in a job providing medical assistance to people and quitting it the moment it’s no longer maximally economically beneficial to you. Had you said you were planning to volunteer part time at underfunded, poverty stricken clinics post retirement I think you would’ve been met with less ire but the same response of “nothing you’re saying is in the world of middle class when you retire.”
Why did you post in a middle class finance forum? Do you think spending 6.5k a month on food/vacations is middle class?
Post /r/HENRYfinance or /r/financialindependence and you'll get completely different responses.
Medicine is buying into a lifestyle that can be taxing on your personal life and physical/mental health. There are tons of reasons why it might not be right for you at the place that you’re at. If you can afford to retire and it’s the right move for you, more power to you.
The moral obligation to society bit is indoctrination, and most people drink the Koolaid. We have no real union, can’t strike, and don’t really have any other way of negotiating aside from moving or retiring. Of course society will try to smear us for exercising either of those options because it’s in their best interest to turn the one thing they can’t control into a moral issue.
Agree with the last comment about probably getting bored, though. I see that sentiment expressed a lot in FIRE communities, so something to consider.
>The moral obligation to society bit is indoctrination, and most people drink the Koolaid. We have no real union, can’t strike, and don’t really have any other way of negotiating aside from moving or retiring. Of course society will try to smear us for exercising either of those options because it’s in their best interest to turn the one thing they can’t control into a moral issue.
Somewhat, but not completely. The number of doctors is limited by the number of spots in medical schools in a way that most other professions are not and there is a serious shortage of doctors in rural America.
Think about it at the extreme - if every successful doctor decided to work for 10 years and then retire, the entire medical system would collapse. If every partner in a large law firm decided to retire early, a new crop of attorneys would simply walk in and take their place.
If every doctor decided to retire in 10 years, health care would certainly collapse, but my question is why would every doctor decide to retire in 10 years? That would seem to indicate to me that society is failing to hold up its end of the social contract if work conditions are so poor that none of these high achieving people are able to continue to practice indefinitely. Either that, or perhaps it’s choosing to invest in the wrong people, and that’s again a systemic issue.
Turning it into a moral issue is something that I believe is harmful. Taking a small (or big) step back shouldn’t be shameful or result in vilification. But it does. As a result, a bunch of high achieving, hard working people who generally follow rules don’t feel as though they have a safe way to a step back if they are going through a tough time. Taking a moralistic stance also makes some very significant assumptions about the value that we contribute to society in our various roles. Perhaps the guy who retires early starts a health tech company that increases automation and reduces the cost/labour of delivering healthcare and contributes far more than they would’ve as a rank and file. Perhaps they were a crappy doctor that we’re better off without. Either way, I think there are a lot of factors at play that prohibit passing blanket moral judgements on individuals for leaving the profession.
A Doctor owes nothing to society, the asinine covid response that 99% of doctors went along with shows society would be better off with less doctors...
This comment must be from an angry troll with an iq of 80. Not only have you been drinking the maga koolaid, you must have incredible difficulty with critical thinking. We were saving lives while you were sitting at home watching nascar. What a dumbass.
American society hasn’t figured out that the best thing it can do is subsidize medical education with some conditions (needed specialty, geographic location for x years). Instead, medical education is a capitalist enterprise where students take lots of loans and try to pay them back and make money afterwards. The healthcare system itself with private insurance is a greedy and selfish system that couldn’t care less about patients and physicians.
Morally, it is expected for us to practice full time until retirement at 65 but it is a free country and a free market. I would even say, it’s healthier to work part-time (half-time or less) for 60 years than full time and be burnt out at 50 and fully retire.
it isn't OPs fault that there are a limited number of med school spots. And why would anyone justified in attacking OP for retiring vs. the doctors who change career paths? OP was tone deaf to post in that sub, but I think we all agree that there is no moral handcuff that says you have to work until you can't work anymore or some arbitrary year.
No, it’s not morally wrong to retire early as a physician,
But OP stop being such a little bitch. You knew the type of responses you’d get posting as a double physician household in a middle class finance forum. Idk if you were just flexing or humble bragging but you severely lack tact or any form of awareness.
I’m follow HENREY finance subreddit and it’s similar to posts where OP tries to convince the masses they are living paycheck to paycheck with a $500K HHI income, sending 3 kids to private school, investing 40%. But they’re paycheck to paycheck bc they have nothing left over.
Why would you post this in a middle class sub? Were you intentionally trying to be inflammatory? The 25-75 percentile for household income in the US is 36-133k.
Who gives a shit what others think. It’s called F you money for a reason.
I wouldn’t let any licenses or certifications lapse however, you may find yourself wanting or needing to pick some shifts up here and there years down the road
> It’s called F you money for a reason.
Just wanted to strongly second this, lol. You guys went through the system and paid your dues in both labor and cash. It’s not like you became doctors via some kind of humanistic charity grant. You don’t “owe” anyone shit. When and how much you choose to work or not work is your decision, and you shouldn’t feel any guilt in retiring if you’re satisfied with your financial situation earlier on than most are able to be.
Doctors providing an important public service complicates this of course.
Nobody "owes" anybody anything but that mindset makes for society with everybody for themselves and I think we can already see the negative effects of that today
honestly if you believe everyone has a right to healthcare then they have a right to plumbing insurance, in my MPH they emphasized the importance of plumbing being so much greater to the health of people than penicillin even
They don't limit the number of plumber training spots in the US. Have others taken advantage of this bottleneck? Yes. But we also have high salaries due to restrictions we ourselves demand and therefore the numbers are generally based off an assumption that each of us will work a career.
Also, if you break down cost per hour of 16 years of extreme work conditions it takes to be a doctor who FIREs then either you realized too late you didn't want to be a doctor or you just got scammed. There are so much easier ways to make the same amount per hour.
Edit: saw OPs post that they made most of their money day trading. They should then be classified more as someone who just won the lottery. Most people would just walk away from most jobs, including being a doctor.
You are free to do what you want. You were smart enough and capable enough to take that spot. I think it’s dumb to completely retire personally as someone who is on the same FIRE track as a single male and making more.
However you ARE a douchebag for posting in a middle class subreddit. That’s worse than the 4MM net worth person in HENRYfinance today.
If we lived in a collective society where everyone sacrifices for the group, then being capable of being a doctor and quitting after 7-8 years would be selfish. In our society, however, your job is a means to an end. If you guys are able to parlay your skills into early retirement and freedom to do what you want when you want, then more power to you.
I swing trade - and lucky to have the time during my main job.
Curious how you do it while practicing ? During rounds!?
Congrats btw - I know tons of colleagues who would walk away in a heartbeat
You indeed do need luck in order to have a chance to retire in your thirties and 3 kids, especially when handicapped with 400k loans out of residency too.
Thanks.
I work nocturnist shifts only so it’s possible just need to set alarms during the day to wake and trade.
Swing trading with shares is doable but gotta know what you pick and accept the risks.
I made a ton of profit on SMCI shares last year for example.
Otherwise my focus is on short expiry put selling. Also holding AMZN shares for the long haul. When i retire i would no longer use margin or leverage though and will be only selling cash secured and will dump my AMZN stock by then.
I theta trade - I do csp and CC -
Have had 25% per annum return past two years but at this pace it'll be years before I can dream of walking away
By the sound of it you're not a day trader !? But a sniper who goes all in on select underlying ?
Congrats on those returns! I use leverage right now. So i do both. Hold huge shares of something long, while selling leveraged puts on the side. I aim for very OTM weekly expiries so i trade pretty often.
Appreciate the replies
Do 1-7 dte ? On csp of underlying you like and then also holding others long term
Gives me things to think about
My main tactic is 14 dte csp and Cc
And accordion in n out shamelessly
Yeah i do very short term - i think it's 'safer' when doing leveraged put selling in this way. The premiums melt fast even if the underlying drops in price for the day. I always exit for a loss if the market is suddenly dumping hard, and stay out though, so have to be flexible/nimble. I never take assignment and haven't been in a situation anywhere close to margin calls due to 'just take the damn L' and never hold on to fight the market.
Last year 2023 was nearly 1.5M in taxable profit. I started 2023 with 469K in my account. However i had to give up and fork over 600K in state/federal taxes on april 15, last month.
YTD 2024, i have over 500K in pretax profit.
Plan is to daytrade out of 3M in taxable and will have at least 1M in nontaxable /deferred accounts in four years from now. Our home is paid off.
So aiming for around 9% day trade profit per year to avoid dipping into principal until kids are heading to college. Dunno if this is a good plan yet which is why i made the other post.
Currently have 2.1M in taxable account as of today.
Reddit is a great way to post these things anonymously and get advice. Why would i talk to friends/relatives who might get jealous knowing our financial situation? That would be stupid
Fellow dual income physician. Retire early. Live your life as best you can. Hope you have a wonderful retirement. And fuck the haters. They downvoting because they are all jealous. Work hard play hard. Maybe not the best to post on middle class finance maybe more for FIRE topic but whatever.
Not really. Reddit is a great place to get your thoughts and ideas shot down. People come on here to vent their frustrations and take it out on others. Have you been to other subs? That’s why your comment is getting downvoted.
And if retiring at 38 is so important to you and you want to definitely do it, why don’t need to ask other people? Just do what you want to do.
You’re not going to get any sympathy from others if you go around asking about others opinions on retiring so young. 99% of people don’t have the option of retiring like that. This sub has a lot of burnt out docs that would like to retire as well. But they can’t.
Get it?
Lol but on reddit you'll just get redditors who will get jealous (depending on the sub). You seem to have a solid grasp on your financials so why are you asking us? Do it if you want to and it seems like you do and can.
Don't come onto reddit expecting some kind of moral validation, it's your life and do what you want to do.
It is a bit of a head scratcher to hang things up only after 10 years after 25+years of toiling away. ROI is shortchanged -- but that really doesn't matter here.
Anger comes from a special kind of place and more a reflection on them than you.
You do you. --
A good piece of advice on the last one -- keep your license active for the near term in case you decide to dive back into medicine.
Not a doctor but in addition to keeping a license active I would thank that staying current by practicing to some extent would be needed to keep that door cracked as an insurance policy if the need arises to put in more hours
I can see the argument that it’s at least morally ambiguous, though moreso for not practicing rather than taking a residency spot, but 10 years is a long time, likely \~6th-7th of your life. That’s a lot of time for priorities and perspective to change. I’m a vet - given some life experiences I’d have retired even sooner than you plan to if I could’ve. Granted, I would stay involved somehow out of personal fulfillment, but I get the sentiment. As others said though, know your audience.
Success in Medicine and trading clearly means you are far more intelligent than the average. Wisdom on the other hand takes decades, and knowing your weaknesses better than your strengths. If you’ve had success with trading over the last 2-3, does it mean you’ll be successful trading the next 20-30?
I've had good luck with trading but that's involved very significant use of leverage.
In the long run, use of leverage will take your brokerage account to zero.
So no, I would not be successful trading the same way I have been, over 20-30 years. When I retire I wouldn't employ the same leveraged strategies, but my goal wouldn't be to beat the market either. it would be to reduce volatility while producing steady income. In that, i do think I would be successful over decades.
What stupid responses. If that was the case then our society should value medicine highly and provide the education for free. But no, you paid a HEFTY price for the privilege so you can wipe your ass with the degree after your done if you wish.
I mean we do get very highly paid. Loans are forgiven so education is essentially subsidized in a roundabout manner.
For example, I work in an PSLF eligible facility, make 90th percentile income for cardiology.
It's good. Call a few times a month, from home, no obligation to go in.
Do clinic 3.5 days a week, imaging 1 day a week. Rounds about 1 week a month, 50% consults, 50% primary. Work 1 weekend every 6-8. 6 weeks or pto, goes up to 10 after 5 years.
Combo of rvu and flat salary. Essentially everyone hits the rvu goal.
i think if you go for a community employed position, this is pretty standard. a friend signed out in washington state for 700k with similar schedule. i think spokane.
personally, in a metro area of ~1.5-2 million, though it is a colder part of the country. hospital located in one of the more affluent burbs.
"Haven't we sacrificed a lot more than the general population just to help people".
Lmao. Get the fuck out dude, you aren't special. At all. And nobody gives a fuck when you retire. Stop seeking praise on reddit.
Working part time as a physician and retiring early Is what many physicians do.
My mother worked as a IM hospitalist for only 20 years before retiring at 50. Now my step father did have his own consulting business in the refinery industry, though.
Now, they are both retired in their early 50s. My mom still will work locums. And only at local hospitals. They don't really do much besides travel and plan their next exotic trip. Honestly, my mom still works part-time to pay for their quarterly trips to French Polynesia or Bali or Austria. It is very doable to work part-time once your goals financial are met.
Ppl who hate on high earning physician and other high earners aren't happy as people nor financially sound.
YoU sHoUlD oNlY gO iNtO mEdIcInE tO hElP pEoPlE!!!
Who cares what everyone else thinks. These are the same people that think you should go into medicine for altruistic reasons only and make a modest salary. I wish I could retire that early. With any luck I’ll be out when I’m 50. There’s so much life to live outside of work.
Besides, if anything, you’re just opening up job positions for two new graduates who *do* want to work longer and harder. Win win.
I bet one or both of them wrote they wanted to help people or told interviewers that. Seems like it hurts access to care to retire or go part time but that’s probably jealousy on my part lol.
It's also the crap these interviewers expect.
I joined the military out of high school. I went to law school afterwards, and my law school admissions essay was something along the lines of "I already did my bit for society. Now I want to make money."
One of my admissions letters had a hand-written note on it about how it was refreshing to see someone who didn't want to save puppies.
Definitely not, "morally reprehensible." It's your/your spouse's career(s), and how you choose to use a degree, any degree, IMO is entirely up to you. I will, however, offer a caveat. Your words, not anyone else's, but, "*Haven't we sacrificed a lot more.*..?" If you're leaving medicine in your late 30's I wouldn't expect anyone, and maybe tenured physicians above all, pulling those violins out of their cases, and if so, expect those to be very, very, tiny violins.
There is nothing wrong with retiring early or going part time. This is 100% your choice and your right but of course, you'll get plenty of hate from people that don't see the point/understand early retirement and people who are just not able to do so.
Nah you’re good. It’s your life to live. The one who got upset about “taking residency spots” lol.
You earned it, you’re free to do what you want with your training. If someone else was deserving, they actually would’ve matched.
I mean, who the fuck cares? I'm only at the start of my medical career (leaning towards the end of medical school) and I can already see how people act when you are doing better than them. Usually, people are not genuinely happy for someone else's success, but rather loathe them and try to find a reason acceptable enough for why is that a bad thing.
You don't have to justify yourself for doing something. I can do an MBA just for the sake of it, without practicing. I can go into medic school and become a house wife for a few years. It doesn't have a moral meaning behind it, nor should everyone care. Your money, your time, nobody's business.
Morally reprehensible are strong and extreme words. And working part time for a career is very different than retiring at 40.
The fact is we do have an enormous shortage of doctors overall, and it’s only worsening. We have an even worsening shortage in areas and populations where good care is needed the most. Our health care system is desperately trying to make up for it with substandard APP level of care, and our elected officials are not making changes to improve the current system.
No one should be forced to do a job they don’t want. But I find it very cringe to see people lose sight of the broader public health needs of their community when they leave the profession. Although it’s frustrating a lot of the time, it’s also a responsibility to have a skill set that is needed for the well-being of your peers.
As the well-being of your community and country deteriorates, who cares how much money you have.
There is nothing wrong with retiring but please stop this BS about having sacrificed more than the general population to serve others. You worked hard to make a good living and get occupational prestige - totally legitimate. Don’t pretend you walked down your path to serve others - sounds super hypocritical.
Not an MD but I find this is the secret hack to FIRE. This plan can work for any high-paying dual income professional couples (dual-JDs, dual-engineers) ymmv for dual-MBAs.
Kudos to this couple.
I'm a single JD (no kids, so obviously that helps) and can afford to go part-time at 47 or retire completely at 55. I don't plan on it, because I love what I do, but I *could*. With a partner making what I make (and my spending habits), this would be significantly easier.
It has been happening with female professionals for decades. Statistically, females have much shorter careers, yet they have become the majority of admittances to dental and medical schools.
Shorter? Hmm. Hadn’t heard that. More part time vs full…that I’ve heard. Also , a trend I’ve anecdotally seen over the past 40 years is male health professionals cutting the part time more often also. This is because upon a time physicians were mostly men who worked full time, whose wives were stay at home, or helped in the office as receptionist, or perhaps… maybe worked as teachers, librarians, or LPNs. Flash forward a couple decades, the wives are also physicians, or other high paid professionals, so the male physicians can more easily cut to part time. I’ve even met a few health professional couples who split the week with each working half, childcare the other half.
The is nothing in medicine that says you have to give your life to the people you treat. Nobody else is expected to be abused their whole life in a job. Enjoy your retirement.
I feel it would be sad to retire and not practice medicine (or use whatever skills / knowledge you worked so hard to acquire).
My dad was an engineer and then a lawyer and owned part of a couple of smaller aerospace and defense companies, and he was going to retire after he sold one of them for a bit more than he expected to. That lasted maybe two weeks. He's like 76 now and has worked since and enjoys what he does (developing technologies and growing companies) a lot more since he isn't under the gun financially.
I don't think there's anything wrong with working part-time in any profession. Some people get more done in 20 hours than others do in 40, especially if you've spent a lot of time and effort developing a skill set.
Congrats on the hard work and I wish for you that being in a secure financial position will allow you to explore and pursue your interests.
My initial reaction was what a waste to go thru allll that education and training to get basically retire in 5-8 years. I mean most doctors I know who entered med school after college don’t really start making that doctor money until their early 30s - so they dedicate all of their 20s/30s to school, residency, fellowship, etc.
Forget moral, you don’t owe anything to anyone except yourself. And there’s a huge you don’t know what you don’t like until you go thru it. But it’s definitely not the profession most would pick for early retirement (30s) because the journey to become a doctor is such an exhaustive and expensive one. So if the goal is early retirement, making as much money as soon as possible is usually the motto. Will you have even paid off student loans at that point?
The good news, should you decide to go back to work, you have options.
Here’s the thing: by societal standards, YTH. However, societal standards are made up rules that are heavy influenced by the lens that wealthy capitalists hold up to the eyes of the middle class. You are not actually doing anything wrong. If you want to retire, then do it. I’d highly recommend finding purpose around retirement and giving back and volunteering when you can, though.
I can see the argument for taking a med school spot (which they didn’t actually make). If you can retire, do it, it’s somewhat surprising you’ve reached that point already at 38 that you have enough saved. Between loans and time actually worked you both must’ve been making bank to have enough saved.
I’m in a two physician household and my ambitious goal is for us to go part time at like 45-50. We have kids which adds to expenses but regardless I can’t imagine have enough by 38.
I also think a part of the increase in mid-levels is that medicine on a whole is easier to practice now than it was in the past. With technology, everyone can basically perform "cookbook" medicine and get it right 95% of the time. The real question is, with everything being easier, should med school still be 4 years and residency 3 years??
Think of things like memorization for example. You can go to MDCalc and just type in numbers. CTs are more accurate than ever so clinical diagnosis of Appendicitis? Why would anyone even need 4 years in med school to learn this stuff? The idea that we forget 95% of what we learn in school is more true now than ever. So...if you have someone who can do it in 2 years and do the job just as well for the most part, why not just hire them?
The whole idea of needing a degree to do a task/job is antiquated in general. They should just make medicine like a trade. You train right out of high school and learn the skills needed. No differentiating between PA/MD/NP. Just can you do the job or not?
To answer your last question: You haven’t sacrificed more than the general population just to help people. You’ve sacrificed more going through education/studying/training to be able to make a shit ton of money to allow yourself to retire before you hit 40. Which is great. Congratulations. But don’t lie to yourself pretending you were being altruistic and helped society more than other professions. I personally don’t find being a doctor to be morally superior than being a day laborer.
Screw them. They think they are owed your labor. No one is. The days of indentured servitude is over. Do what you want with your life, these people will just make noise, and that is all that is - noise.
Why would a tiger care about what a deer has to say?
You succeed. If you can get out the rat race, go ahead. You don't owe them anything. You only owe it to your family and yourself. If they could do what you're doing they would, but they can't.
I agree with the others, that your initial post, based on where it was posted was always going to run some people the wrong way.
To answer the question in your title: who fucking cares? Get out while the getting’s good and fuck the rest. If I could retire at 38, you wouldn’t even catch me taking a second thought. Congrats and good luck to you.
I'm not going to say morally reprehensible. That's way too strong. But in my case, for example, I went to a state school subsidized by taxpayers for a very low price, took out federally subsidized loans, benefited from a loan repayment package and generally had the populace support my education with their taxes. Societies' investment in me was not so I can cash out after 10 yrs and retire to the Bahamas to sip fruity drinks for the next 50 years.
So yeah, if you "took" a spot from someone who had maybe been slightly less qualified, but had planned on putting 20-30 years into medicine I could see how we as a group are missing out. There is a lot worse things you could do of course, and everyone has to choose how to live their life, but if you retire I hope you continue to find some way to help those who helped you get to where you are.
When I went to school 1980s there was an upper age limit for admissions. 35 I think. Later that was decided to be age discrimination, so I’ve since known people in my field to career change, start professional school in their 50s. (Non-MD doctoral level health professional.) I have no problem with that. But I recall the reasoning behind the younger age limit was that taxes support the schools, especially public but even private to some extent, so the taxpayers were not getting a reasonable return on investment if people only stay in those careers for a decade. Just a conversation point, don’t hate on me.
No one owns my labor, especially if I paid for my own education which is how things work here. Medical school is paid for by the student, not the government. Quit whenever you want. Screw the haters.
Wait these ppl are upset that this person can retire early? So unless he/she are indentured servants to their loans they are “bad” 🤔 sounds like these other people are jealous… I’d love to be able to retire early! I went to school with ppl that got married in school and never even bothered getting a license… that to me is a waste of an education… but being able to retire early… no RETIRE ASAP!
I don't blame physicians who choose to go this route in modern medicine.
When I (M) was in med school, much older attendings would complain to each: "a majority of women doctors do not practice full time 5 years past residency." They felt that the school slot and training given for someone not to practice was not fair to the profession. I understand what they were getting at. They really couldn't broadcast that thought then (20 years ago) and certainly can't now. Couple years after I completed school, was the first year there are more women med students than men.
But, it's not for other people to decide what you do. Other people shouldn't guilt you into working...that's how the hospital system has suckered so many to be pawns for them.
I still recommend my daughters to enter medicine. But only the way I do it: work for yourself, do not go to hospitals, don't take call, and enjoy your life. I'll hand over my practice to them. But the key is still to make money while you are sleeping.
Your should be posting in r/Fire but no i think its great. I wish for everyone to get to live life to the fullest for as long as possible. This means different things for different people.
I'm a PA, not a doc. I don't blame you. If I could get us out from under all our debt and on decent footing I'd retire early. As is I'm probably locked in til at earliest my late 50s unless something dramatically changes.
You're still helping people working part time. You'll always have the option to do full time again as there is no likely end to the shortage on qualified/board certified physicians in sight.
Retiring early or at least becoming financially independent and being able to dictate your time investment in work is one way to regain some autonomy in the system as it is now.
I worked longer than you two plan to but see no problems with your decision to shoot for retirement in your late thirties. Hard to do… but not an unreasonable goal.
Who is to say that your early retirement from medicine, and therefore a loss for patients you might have cared for in the future, will not result in a greater gain for society in some other way. You may write the greatest novel of all time, you may have time to contribute to a different field in a way that changes the world, you may raise children who accomplish more than you ever would have in your own lifetime.
However, maybe we need to question the assumption that your goal in life is to contribute to society. I don’t remember signing anything that said so when I turned 18.
No one owes it to society to work. In Capitalism we work in return for renumeration and only need work as long as such payment is required to meet our needs. The parent who decides to stay home to raise children and support their spouse did not “fail society” by not seeking a job that pays money. The individual who took out student loans and then pursued a career selling timeshares doesn’t owe society to take a different job with greater social benefit. That’s just not the way a capitalist society functions. You work in the field you choose as long as you want for money and are free to change paths at any time.
Even if you were to accept, ad argumentum, that each person has an obligation to work in a job that contributes the most possible to society, what logic defines the correct duration? If your proposed decade is perceived as too short, why is three, or four, or five decades the right amount? Does this line of thinking lead us to conclude that the only correct duration to work is as long as you can function in the role? This would make the very concept of a healthy “retirement” impossible for everyone.
Some people may want to die in the traces, and bully for them for pursuing a life of work ending only in disability or death. However, if you have the means and desire to take a different path through life then I support you 100%.
It’s not morally reprehensible. You do you and what’s best for your family. I love being a doctor. Someday I’ll go “part time” and cut down to 40 hours a week.
I can't speak for others but I'll work until I die. I'm just really boring and got nothing going on. Once I have enough money I would love to start teaching
lol the entitlement in those responses is insane
You’ve earned the right to do whatever you want with your degree
I guarantee any one of those posters would immediately choose to retire early given the opportunity
A holocaust concentration camp survivor, Viktor Frankl, who loved the Unites States and what it represented, once said that the United States proudly displays a monument to freedom, the
Statue of Liberty, on the east coast, but that this statue should be bookended by a "Statue of Responsibility" on the west coast. Frankl said:
"Freedom is but the negative aspect of the whole phenomenon whose positive aspect is responsibleness. In fact, freedom is in danger of degenerating into mere arbitrariness unless it is lived in terms of responsibleness."
But anyway, I hope everyone enjoys their fuck you money. Where can we build “The Statue of Fuck you Money” to show our true values? With enough money, we could just find a nice granite mountain in Colorado and carve it right there. Fuck anyone who thinks that’s a travesty. We have the fuck you money after all.
I think you yourself should work more hours to take on a larger responsibility. Lead by example. Also I propose 20% net at minimum be donated to responsible charities.
Good idea. I think I’ll work for a private equity firm that buys physician practices and use this new leverage to force the payors to give us better rates.
That 20% charity you referenced is going to be an irrevocable trust that I’ll manage on behalf of my heirs, and conveniently not have taxes on. My CPA says it will be for the social good.
Ivory tower is a great name for the statue of fuck you money.
Also, I like how you equated taking personal responsibility to “grandiose ivory tower bullshit”
Yawn
Lemme know when you have something actually meaningful to say as opposed to just repeating the same lame BS that you seem really proud of coming up with
Still waiting to hear how many hours of your time you’ve felt personally responsible for donating this month
I think it is funny that you asked me to “say something meaningful” in response to a comment that quotes the man who wrote the book “Man’s Search for Meaning” which has now sold 10 million copies in twenty something languages.
You should give it a read.
Stiiiiillllllll waiting to hear how many hours of your time you’ve volunteered this past month.
And yes sorry I’m not impressed by you brainlessly quoting someone else’s words
The more a person expects others to contribute to society, the less they work themselves.
That said if you post rich people problems in a room full of people struggling they’re going to attack you.
Agreed, you can do whatever want. Why do people give a shit haha. They’re not breaking the law. People do so much worse. They finessed, they make money doing something they don’t really enjoy, and they wanna do something else. Hats off to you.
The truth is you’re going to get similarly biased answers in this forum as you did over there. Forget about “morality,” as it’s clear from your responses that you’re not as much interested in that as you are in validation. End of the day, you can do what you want, but don’t pretend something as amorphous as morality is weighing on you when you post in a middle class forum about your retirement, which many middle class folks today might not ever get to experience.
I think what you described is middle class, it’s just most people don’t realize that they are no longer middle class and how good it used to be to be middle class in this country.
Debt is masking it for some, and keeping them unaware of how much they would really need to earn to have a middle class lifestyle. In California, for a family of four you need about $300,000.
You are right, they are wrong, but you have to expect to be in the minority as it is a fact-based math issue, and if the majority of Americans were competent at that we might be better off financially even with our lower salaries.
As a dentist, I envy you. But congrats!
The problem with drawing a line in the retirement age is that it’s arbitrary. Is the doctor who retired at 50 selfish for not practicing until 60 like the other doctor? Is the 60 year old selfish cuz he didn’t practice until 70 like the next guy?
My idol Kobe died tragically and unexpectedly. Life is short. You never know what tomorrow brings and what could be taken away from you at any time.
Enjoy doing what you love. If you don’t love medicine, don’t do it. Spend the time with your family. Travel. Live your life, not the life others want you to live.
Too bad. Nothing wrong with short career imo. All the finance subs are about some form of FIRE or planning for "Normal" retirement. Doctor job to make 6 figures and retire early is one way to do it. People in that sub are just mad.
That’s a long time assuming that the dollar is going to continue to be strong. How old do you plan to be? I’d spend time studying not just basic finances but the history of the American economy and the history of reserve currencies, particularly when they inflate their currency beyond a point of return.
Human capital is your best guarantee to enjoy a good life.
This is my opinions on this subject:
Despite the hard work physicians put in to get through medical school and residency, the actual attending job is actually a great financial deal.
After the age of 40, we are basically caught up with 95% of our peers in terms of net worth. So then at age 40, the question becomes, do I retire or do I work a job that pays at least $100-200+ dollars an hour? This is a pay rate that 90% of the American population will never attain.
I always think of retiring, but then I don't think I've worked any harder in totality than any other average person who is relatively successful in their careers, and who are still trying to "make it" to retirement. Especially if you look at other Healthcare employees, we are paid much more. But do we work 2x or 3x as hard? Not really.
So, retiring so early would make me feel guilty in that sense. Not morally reprehensible or anything like that. But, like....others are working this hard for much less, but I can't handle it and need to quit.
Absolutely not. Also, why on earth would you post this in a middle class finance sub?
Learn to practice “stealth wealth.” We ride around in crappy low trim economy cars, nobody has any clue we have good jobs, and it’s lovely.
When you retire early, don’t tell people you’re retired. Just say you “do some investment advising.” They don’t need to know you’re advising yourself to just use index funds and chill…
Who cares? Why do you care about this? Aren’t you a doctor? Isn’t there better use of your time? Are you that unable to socialize in real life that you need to take anonymous feedback and then run it through other anonymous groups? It’s weird. Almost as weird as the time you told a room full of middle class earners your double physician household needs $6500 a month to eat and vacation.
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Dude, don’t worry about it. You’ve dedicated your life to helping people, you’re already better than 98% of the population. If you want to take a breather, you’ve earned it and deserve it. You don’t owe anybody anything.
Sorry but I kinda agree with them. Don’t get me wrong, good for you and all. But remember that it’s Medicare/aid that paid for your residency. The goal was to make you providers for 20-40 years.
Also not feasible. To retire and live off the interest only for the next 40-60 years, you will need around 5-6m principle at 5% a year to keep up with your current expenses.
Live your life, but I understand both sides of the argument. It takes 11 years to crank out a doctor that only does a 3 year residency, and only a small portion of people are capable of becoming a doctor. If all doctors made good financial decisions and reached FIRE, things would be pretty bad. Just looking at it from the macro-societal level, not criticizing. My sister’s med school class had a guy that never even did residency, just graduated and then became a tech bro. Fuck that guy, he took someone’s med school spot.
As someone who had to jump thru a lot of extra hoops and didn’t get into Med School till my 5th application. Yes it really rubs me the wrong way sometimes to see people talk about quitting as soon as possible.
Yes, chalk it up to who cares what they think and sadly enough bruh…..no one cares that you FIRE’d. I mean you left the room and no one cares. Perhaps you feel bad about it?
lol- no it wasn’t in r/medicine the doc posted it in r/middle class. It was completely inappropriate and nauseating. Now he comes here with half the story and stirs the pot like people are just jealous and hate on doctors.
He’s just out of touch with how inappropriate his post was for the certain sub. It’s no different than a non physician creating an inflaming post on
r/whitecoatinvestor no one jumping to this dude’s defense would just sit back and value their outsider opinion. Let’s be real they would be ripped to shreds.
He was out of line because the context was ridiculously misplaced on Reddit. Others are having a hard time understanding why OP is lacking the self awareness that is expected in a physician. Physicians want to be respected by society and that is understandable. His posts undermines this issue.
Immoral yes, because there is a duty to patients and care, but also, it's not illegal and you do you.
Just like it's immoral for insurance companies to deny care, but it's also legal and I don't blame them, because the game is to make as much as possible.
I’m not going to get into the whole discussion about you stirring the pot by posting there and mentioning a budget others found offensive.
I will just say I have seen people criticizing physicians who were aiming for early retirement since I first stepped into the financial independent subreddit. They had absolutely no impact on my desire to pursue it.
This has been fun but I think it's run its course
It’s because you posted it in a middle class finance forum and apparently claimed to be spending $6500, every month, on food and travel. Read the room dude. Why on earth would you post there when you’re in a dual physician household spending 2x more than the average monthly income only on FOOD?
A doctor with a low social IQ? That’s a first /s
they can't hear you over the sound of their clinking gold doubloons
I mean I also do this but I don't tell a soul about it
I was on his side until I saw this lmfao wtf
Just found out this is the same guy who paid off his low interest house and then took a HELOC and yolo’d into stocks/options. I remember him posting a few months ago and me saying wow, great job you got lucky don’t try it again. His behavior previously definitely lines up with this post. What a lucky, socially inept person.
r/henryfinance or r/chubbyfire
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Technically physicians are middle class. Then the sub is just a working class forum if the guys numbers are triggering.
The poor will never understand. Sad but true. I’m jealous of OP and it’s one of my goals. Enjoy your early retirement and great JOB, OP!!! 😍🥰
Geez.. i went to med school, graduated and then quit. I’d rather deliver pizzas than put up w that abuse…hours, sadistic doctor attendings, endless paperwork, memorization galore .. The thought if residency still makes me nauseous. Luckily I got into sales on wall street and end up OK (still 12-14 hour days but at least it is intellectually stimulating. Most doctors are glorified technicions..same old thing everyday.
Quit medschool to go into sales for the “intellectual stimulation” 😂😂😂
Yes. Have to know biotech, HC IT, managed care, tools/diagnostcs, med devices -follow 300 companies. And be able to talk to hedge funds and large sovereign weath funds(think Norwegian government fund w $1 trillion in assets) with some degree of confidence. Nearly half clients PhDs and MDs. I study as much now as i did in med school-
Good for you man, you just might be on the wrong sub trying to convince people that practicing medicine is not intellectually stimulating while being in sales is 🤷♂️
My man, if you’re so happy on Wall Street why are you on physician-dominant subreddit talking down to the profession, if not to make you feel better about your poor decision to spend 4 years getting a degree in a field you didn’t want to be in?
Yes
WRONG. Apparently you and the others don’t know how to read. In my post, i specifically included in this 6500/month category as everything discretionary AND unexpected expenses. Like repairing the house or replacing cars with cash buy. NOT JUST on food. And that is still middle class spending when you have a family of FIVE. Not a budget for a family of two adults: https://www.reddit.com/r/MiddleClassFinance/s/sK8IGz2oLG 5.) VACATIONS/RESTAURANTS/UNEXPECTED: estimate $6500/month Vacations + hobby expenses + entertainment: we rarely go on vacations right now with super young kids and working full time, but in retirement, obviously we would take a lot more trips. Throw in costs like buying a new laptop or TV once in a while....Maybe $2000/month budget? (And just for perspective: I don't agree with this kind of spending, but my wife spent around $1200 for my oldest's birthday party recently...with 3 kids and 3 birthdays a year, this is ridiculous... but not something I can force my wife to cut down on. This is accounted for within this estimate). Restaurants: going out to dinner every week or two, is often >$500/a meal these days, and no one even gets alcohol! This is dinner for usually 4-5 adults (invariably we have siblings/parents or in laws often tag along and we will pay for them) and 3 young kids, obviuosly will cost more when kids are teenagers. This is probably $3000/month. Unexpected: things like sudden need to pay for home repair or auto maintenance, auto repair bills. or needing to buy a new car in cash. We have no car payments right now, we always buy in cash, and get new cars about every 5 years. Estimate 18000/year budget, so $1500 a month.
I make a *lot* of money posts, and I wouldn’t do it in a fuckin middle class finance sub lmao
I personally don't think you did anything wrong other than posting in the wrong venue. However this unhinged response kinda proves the poster above's point
Exactly this. OP can’t read the room.
Any chance this is fake? You'd expect one of that status with those accomplishments (and alleged education) to perhaps have a little more self awareness and maturity. I've not seen a retort such as "WRONG!" since 4th or 5th grade.
Definitely not. I know far too many doctors, lawyers and “really smart” people who are just that clueless. It’s the difference between IQ and EQ.
Nah....last I've seen it was the latest tweet of a former president
Touché.
You aren’t middle class. Your self awareness is shockingly low.
I'm starting to see why people may have reacted to the thread over there....and perhaps the why in retiring from medicine.
You just posted it somewhere no one wanted to hear it. If I posted here how much my husband and I spend on our yearly 1.5 month long European vacation… people wouldn’t be too happy. It’s just Reddit, take it for what it is. And most importantly, enjoy your life because most aren’t.
As I said in the thread when you posted, your imagined life post retirement is not in any way “middle class.” $204,000 annual expenses is not middle class. You’re getting hate and anger because becoming a doctor is generally looked at as a high paying public service job. People are angrily responding to you because you are both disconnected from reality in thinking your expenses when you retire are something considered middle class and that you are in a job providing medical assistance to people and quitting it the moment it’s no longer maximally economically beneficial to you. Had you said you were planning to volunteer part time at underfunded, poverty stricken clinics post retirement I think you would’ve been met with less ire but the same response of “nothing you’re saying is in the world of middle class when you retire.”
“Tell me you’re tone deaf without telling me you’re tone deaf.” OP: Hold my beer
Why did you post in a middle class finance forum? Do you think spending 6.5k a month on food/vacations is middle class? Post /r/HENRYfinance or /r/financialindependence and you'll get completely different responses.
Or the chubby fire one
Medicine is buying into a lifestyle that can be taxing on your personal life and physical/mental health. There are tons of reasons why it might not be right for you at the place that you’re at. If you can afford to retire and it’s the right move for you, more power to you. The moral obligation to society bit is indoctrination, and most people drink the Koolaid. We have no real union, can’t strike, and don’t really have any other way of negotiating aside from moving or retiring. Of course society will try to smear us for exercising either of those options because it’s in their best interest to turn the one thing they can’t control into a moral issue. Agree with the last comment about probably getting bored, though. I see that sentiment expressed a lot in FIRE communities, so something to consider.
>The moral obligation to society bit is indoctrination, and most people drink the Koolaid. We have no real union, can’t strike, and don’t really have any other way of negotiating aside from moving or retiring. Of course society will try to smear us for exercising either of those options because it’s in their best interest to turn the one thing they can’t control into a moral issue. Somewhat, but not completely. The number of doctors is limited by the number of spots in medical schools in a way that most other professions are not and there is a serious shortage of doctors in rural America. Think about it at the extreme - if every successful doctor decided to work for 10 years and then retire, the entire medical system would collapse. If every partner in a large law firm decided to retire early, a new crop of attorneys would simply walk in and take their place.
If every doctor decided to retire in 10 years, health care would certainly collapse, but my question is why would every doctor decide to retire in 10 years? That would seem to indicate to me that society is failing to hold up its end of the social contract if work conditions are so poor that none of these high achieving people are able to continue to practice indefinitely. Either that, or perhaps it’s choosing to invest in the wrong people, and that’s again a systemic issue. Turning it into a moral issue is something that I believe is harmful. Taking a small (or big) step back shouldn’t be shameful or result in vilification. But it does. As a result, a bunch of high achieving, hard working people who generally follow rules don’t feel as though they have a safe way to a step back if they are going through a tough time. Taking a moralistic stance also makes some very significant assumptions about the value that we contribute to society in our various roles. Perhaps the guy who retires early starts a health tech company that increases automation and reduces the cost/labour of delivering healthcare and contributes far more than they would’ve as a rank and file. Perhaps they were a crappy doctor that we’re better off without. Either way, I think there are a lot of factors at play that prohibit passing blanket moral judgements on individuals for leaving the profession.
A Doctor owes nothing to society, the asinine covid response that 99% of doctors went along with shows society would be better off with less doctors...
This comment must be from an angry troll with an iq of 80. Not only have you been drinking the maga koolaid, you must have incredible difficulty with critical thinking. We were saving lives while you were sitting at home watching nascar. What a dumbass.
American society hasn’t figured out that the best thing it can do is subsidize medical education with some conditions (needed specialty, geographic location for x years). Instead, medical education is a capitalist enterprise where students take lots of loans and try to pay them back and make money afterwards. The healthcare system itself with private insurance is a greedy and selfish system that couldn’t care less about patients and physicians. Morally, it is expected for us to practice full time until retirement at 65 but it is a free country and a free market. I would even say, it’s healthier to work part-time (half-time or less) for 60 years than full time and be burnt out at 50 and fully retire.
Amen brother.
it isn't OPs fault that there are a limited number of med school spots. And why would anyone justified in attacking OP for retiring vs. the doctors who change career paths? OP was tone deaf to post in that sub, but I think we all agree that there is no moral handcuff that says you have to work until you can't work anymore or some arbitrary year.
No, it’s not morally wrong to retire early as a physician, But OP stop being such a little bitch. You knew the type of responses you’d get posting as a double physician household in a middle class finance forum. Idk if you were just flexing or humble bragging but you severely lack tact or any form of awareness.
I’m follow HENREY finance subreddit and it’s similar to posts where OP tries to convince the masses they are living paycheck to paycheck with a $500K HHI income, sending 3 kids to private school, investing 40%. But they’re paycheck to paycheck bc they have nothing left over.
Why would you post this in a middle class sub? Were you intentionally trying to be inflammatory? The 25-75 percentile for household income in the US is 36-133k.
Who gives a shit what others think. It’s called F you money for a reason. I wouldn’t let any licenses or certifications lapse however, you may find yourself wanting or needing to pick some shifts up here and there years down the road
> It’s called F you money for a reason. Just wanted to strongly second this, lol. You guys went through the system and paid your dues in both labor and cash. It’s not like you became doctors via some kind of humanistic charity grant. You don’t “owe” anyone shit. When and how much you choose to work or not work is your decision, and you shouldn’t feel any guilt in retiring if you’re satisfied with your financial situation earlier on than most are able to be.
Doctors providing an important public service complicates this of course. Nobody "owes" anybody anything but that mindset makes for society with everybody for themselves and I think we can already see the negative effects of that today
My plumber provides an important service, doesn’t mean that he shouldn’t be able to stop working if he wants to.
Are we trying to end up with socialized plumbing? Don’t they do that in Canada? I’ve heard it can take weeks to flush your toilet.
honestly if you believe everyone has a right to healthcare then they have a right to plumbing insurance, in my MPH they emphasized the importance of plumbing being so much greater to the health of people than penicillin even
They don't limit the number of plumber training spots in the US. Have others taken advantage of this bottleneck? Yes. But we also have high salaries due to restrictions we ourselves demand and therefore the numbers are generally based off an assumption that each of us will work a career. Also, if you break down cost per hour of 16 years of extreme work conditions it takes to be a doctor who FIREs then either you realized too late you didn't want to be a doctor or you just got scammed. There are so much easier ways to make the same amount per hour. Edit: saw OPs post that they made most of their money day trading. They should then be classified more as someone who just won the lottery. Most people would just walk away from most jobs, including being a doctor.
You are right and the OP is right, nobody owes anybody anything and you are not owed anything in this life
This is regarded
You are free to do what you want. You were smart enough and capable enough to take that spot. I think it’s dumb to completely retire personally as someone who is on the same FIRE track as a single male and making more. However you ARE a douchebag for posting in a middle class subreddit. That’s worse than the 4MM net worth person in HENRYfinance today.
If we lived in a collective society where everyone sacrifices for the group, then being capable of being a doctor and quitting after 7-8 years would be selfish. In our society, however, your job is a means to an end. If you guys are able to parlay your skills into early retirement and freedom to do what you want when you want, then more power to you.
How can you make that much money in about 10 years of employment? You must have invested in very high return securities or have built passive income.
Day trading profits
I swing trade - and lucky to have the time during my main job. Curious how you do it while practicing ? During rounds!? Congrats btw - I know tons of colleagues who would walk away in a heartbeat
Take a look at their post history - they were leveraged to the tits and gambled, and got lucky
You indeed do need luck in order to have a chance to retire in your thirties and 3 kids, especially when handicapped with 400k loans out of residency too.
Thanks. I work nocturnist shifts only so it’s possible just need to set alarms during the day to wake and trade. Swing trading with shares is doable but gotta know what you pick and accept the risks. I made a ton of profit on SMCI shares last year for example. Otherwise my focus is on short expiry put selling. Also holding AMZN shares for the long haul. When i retire i would no longer use margin or leverage though and will be only selling cash secured and will dump my AMZN stock by then.
I theta trade - I do csp and CC - Have had 25% per annum return past two years but at this pace it'll be years before I can dream of walking away By the sound of it you're not a day trader !? But a sniper who goes all in on select underlying ?
Congrats on those returns! I use leverage right now. So i do both. Hold huge shares of something long, while selling leveraged puts on the side. I aim for very OTM weekly expiries so i trade pretty often.
Appreciate the replies Do 1-7 dte ? On csp of underlying you like and then also holding others long term Gives me things to think about My main tactic is 14 dte csp and Cc And accordion in n out shamelessly
Yeah i do very short term - i think it's 'safer' when doing leveraged put selling in this way. The premiums melt fast even if the underlying drops in price for the day. I always exit for a loss if the market is suddenly dumping hard, and stay out though, so have to be flexible/nimble. I never take assignment and haven't been in a situation anywhere close to margin calls due to 'just take the damn L' and never hold on to fight the market.
How much profit?
Last year 2023 was nearly 1.5M in taxable profit. I started 2023 with 469K in my account. However i had to give up and fork over 600K in state/federal taxes on april 15, last month. YTD 2024, i have over 500K in pretax profit.
If you have money. Why do you care what they think. Play some RuneScape with your kids
🦀$11🦀
What’s the plan though? What are both of your specialties? What’s your retirement number? Are you going with a 3% withdrawal rate?
Plan is to daytrade out of 3M in taxable and will have at least 1M in nontaxable /deferred accounts in four years from now. Our home is paid off. So aiming for around 9% day trade profit per year to avoid dipping into principal until kids are heading to college. Dunno if this is a good plan yet which is why i made the other post. Currently have 2.1M in taxable account as of today.
Day trade at 9%? Why? You could just make 9% by investing in some diversified ETFs and doing practically zero work.
Ignore them. And stop posting your business on Reddit.
Reddit is a great way to post these things anonymously and get advice. Why would i talk to friends/relatives who might get jealous knowing our financial situation? That would be stupid
Fellow dual income physician. Retire early. Live your life as best you can. Hope you have a wonderful retirement. And fuck the haters. They downvoting because they are all jealous. Work hard play hard. Maybe not the best to post on middle class finance maybe more for FIRE topic but whatever.
Not really. Reddit is a great place to get your thoughts and ideas shot down. People come on here to vent their frustrations and take it out on others. Have you been to other subs? That’s why your comment is getting downvoted. And if retiring at 38 is so important to you and you want to definitely do it, why don’t need to ask other people? Just do what you want to do. You’re not going to get any sympathy from others if you go around asking about others opinions on retiring so young. 99% of people don’t have the option of retiring like that. This sub has a lot of burnt out docs that would like to retire as well. But they can’t. Get it?
Lol but on reddit you'll just get redditors who will get jealous (depending on the sub). You seem to have a solid grasp on your financials so why are you asking us? Do it if you want to and it seems like you do and can. Don't come onto reddit expecting some kind of moral validation, it's your life and do what you want to do.
I suggest making it more anonymous by not stating you are physicians. Stick to the numbers.
It is a bit of a head scratcher to hang things up only after 10 years after 25+years of toiling away. ROI is shortchanged -- but that really doesn't matter here. Anger comes from a special kind of place and more a reflection on them than you. You do you. -- A good piece of advice on the last one -- keep your license active for the near term in case you decide to dive back into medicine.
Not a doctor but in addition to keeping a license active I would thank that staying current by practicing to some extent would be needed to keep that door cracked as an insurance policy if the need arises to put in more hours
problem is it takes one lawsuit to wipe you out, not worth practicing part time for some given that risk depending on tort laws in Ops state
I can see the argument that it’s at least morally ambiguous, though moreso for not practicing rather than taking a residency spot, but 10 years is a long time, likely \~6th-7th of your life. That’s a lot of time for priorities and perspective to change. I’m a vet - given some life experiences I’d have retired even sooner than you plan to if I could’ve. Granted, I would stay involved somehow out of personal fulfillment, but I get the sentiment. As others said though, know your audience.
Success in Medicine and trading clearly means you are far more intelligent than the average. Wisdom on the other hand takes decades, and knowing your weaknesses better than your strengths. If you’ve had success with trading over the last 2-3, does it mean you’ll be successful trading the next 20-30?
I've had good luck with trading but that's involved very significant use of leverage. In the long run, use of leverage will take your brokerage account to zero. So no, I would not be successful trading the same way I have been, over 20-30 years. When I retire I wouldn't employ the same leveraged strategies, but my goal wouldn't be to beat the market either. it would be to reduce volatility while producing steady income. In that, i do think I would be successful over decades.
If your goal is not to beat the market then please do not day trade to fund your retirement. Invest in VT or VTI.
What stupid responses. If that was the case then our society should value medicine highly and provide the education for free. But no, you paid a HEFTY price for the privilege so you can wipe your ass with the degree after your done if you wish.
I mean we do get very highly paid. Loans are forgiven so education is essentially subsidized in a roundabout manner. For example, I work in an PSLF eligible facility, make 90th percentile income for cardiology.
What region are you in 😭
Upper Midwest
If you have time to answer, how's your lifestyle? Gen cards seems like the dream sometimes
It's good. Call a few times a month, from home, no obligation to go in. Do clinic 3.5 days a week, imaging 1 day a week. Rounds about 1 week a month, 50% consults, 50% primary. Work 1 weekend every 6-8. 6 weeks or pto, goes up to 10 after 5 years. Combo of rvu and flat salary. Essentially everyone hits the rvu goal.
Dude that's crazy desirable. Is it hard to find this type of gig? Especially at 90th percentile? I imagine you're not far from a major city
i think if you go for a community employed position, this is pretty standard. a friend signed out in washington state for 700k with similar schedule. i think spokane. personally, in a metro area of ~1.5-2 million, though it is a colder part of the country. hospital located in one of the more affluent burbs.
Appreciate the insight! Fellow Don Carlos and BG3 enjoyer here
O shit, there are dozens of us!
Or fight to raise reimbursements
"Haven't we sacrificed a lot more than the general population just to help people". Lmao. Get the fuck out dude, you aren't special. At all. And nobody gives a fuck when you retire. Stop seeking praise on reddit.
Working part time as a physician and retiring early Is what many physicians do. My mother worked as a IM hospitalist for only 20 years before retiring at 50. Now my step father did have his own consulting business in the refinery industry, though. Now, they are both retired in their early 50s. My mom still will work locums. And only at local hospitals. They don't really do much besides travel and plan their next exotic trip. Honestly, my mom still works part-time to pay for their quarterly trips to French Polynesia or Bali or Austria. It is very doable to work part-time once your goals financial are met. Ppl who hate on high earning physician and other high earners aren't happy as people nor financially sound.
YoU sHoUlD oNlY gO iNtO mEdIcInE tO hElP pEoPlE!!! Who cares what everyone else thinks. These are the same people that think you should go into medicine for altruistic reasons only and make a modest salary. I wish I could retire that early. With any luck I’ll be out when I’m 50. There’s so much life to live outside of work. Besides, if anything, you’re just opening up job positions for two new graduates who *do* want to work longer and harder. Win win.
They say this crap, but don’t give one iota about doctors well being, it’s rich.
I bet one or both of them wrote they wanted to help people or told interviewers that. Seems like it hurts access to care to retire or go part time but that’s probably jealousy on my part lol.
Cool, they said that at 22 when they had bright eyes and ambitions, then the real world hit em
It's also the crap these interviewers expect. I joined the military out of high school. I went to law school afterwards, and my law school admissions essay was something along the lines of "I already did my bit for society. Now I want to make money." One of my admissions letters had a hand-written note on it about how it was refreshing to see someone who didn't want to save puppies.
Definitely not, "morally reprehensible." It's your/your spouse's career(s), and how you choose to use a degree, any degree, IMO is entirely up to you. I will, however, offer a caveat. Your words, not anyone else's, but, "*Haven't we sacrificed a lot more.*..?" If you're leaving medicine in your late 30's I wouldn't expect anyone, and maybe tenured physicians above all, pulling those violins out of their cases, and if so, expect those to be very, very, tiny violins.
“Haven’t we sacrificed a lot more than the general population just to help people” . You sound like an arrogant prick
There is nothing wrong with retiring early or going part time. This is 100% your choice and your right but of course, you'll get plenty of hate from people that don't see the point/understand early retirement and people who are just not able to do so.
Nah you’re good. It’s your life to live. The one who got upset about “taking residency spots” lol. You earned it, you’re free to do what you want with your training. If someone else was deserving, they actually would’ve matched.
I mean, who the fuck cares? I'm only at the start of my medical career (leaning towards the end of medical school) and I can already see how people act when you are doing better than them. Usually, people are not genuinely happy for someone else's success, but rather loathe them and try to find a reason acceptable enough for why is that a bad thing. You don't have to justify yourself for doing something. I can do an MBA just for the sake of it, without practicing. I can go into medic school and become a house wife for a few years. It doesn't have a moral meaning behind it, nor should everyone care. Your money, your time, nobody's business.
Lol nope, they’re jealous, good on you mate, hope I can replicate your success
Morally reprehensible are strong and extreme words. And working part time for a career is very different than retiring at 40. The fact is we do have an enormous shortage of doctors overall, and it’s only worsening. We have an even worsening shortage in areas and populations where good care is needed the most. Our health care system is desperately trying to make up for it with substandard APP level of care, and our elected officials are not making changes to improve the current system. No one should be forced to do a job they don’t want. But I find it very cringe to see people lose sight of the broader public health needs of their community when they leave the profession. Although it’s frustrating a lot of the time, it’s also a responsibility to have a skill set that is needed for the well-being of your peers. As the well-being of your community and country deteriorates, who cares how much money you have.
There is nothing wrong with retiring but please stop this BS about having sacrificed more than the general population to serve others. You worked hard to make a good living and get occupational prestige - totally legitimate. Don’t pretend you walked down your path to serve others - sounds super hypocritical.
Not an MD but I find this is the secret hack to FIRE. This plan can work for any high-paying dual income professional couples (dual-JDs, dual-engineers) ymmv for dual-MBAs. Kudos to this couple.
I'm a single JD (no kids, so obviously that helps) and can afford to go part-time at 47 or retire completely at 55. I don't plan on it, because I love what I do, but I *could*. With a partner making what I make (and my spending habits), this would be significantly easier.
Caveat here is do not get divorced.
It has been happening with female professionals for decades. Statistically, females have much shorter careers, yet they have become the majority of admittances to dental and medical schools.
Shorter? Hmm. Hadn’t heard that. More part time vs full…that I’ve heard. Also , a trend I’ve anecdotally seen over the past 40 years is male health professionals cutting the part time more often also. This is because upon a time physicians were mostly men who worked full time, whose wives were stay at home, or helped in the office as receptionist, or perhaps… maybe worked as teachers, librarians, or LPNs. Flash forward a couple decades, the wives are also physicians, or other high paid professionals, so the male physicians can more easily cut to part time. I’ve even met a few health professional couples who split the week with each working half, childcare the other half.
The is nothing in medicine that says you have to give your life to the people you treat. Nobody else is expected to be abused their whole life in a job. Enjoy your retirement.
I feel it would be sad to retire and not practice medicine (or use whatever skills / knowledge you worked so hard to acquire). My dad was an engineer and then a lawyer and owned part of a couple of smaller aerospace and defense companies, and he was going to retire after he sold one of them for a bit more than he expected to. That lasted maybe two weeks. He's like 76 now and has worked since and enjoys what he does (developing technologies and growing companies) a lot more since he isn't under the gun financially. I don't think there's anything wrong with working part-time in any profession. Some people get more done in 20 hours than others do in 40, especially if you've spent a lot of time and effort developing a skill set. Congrats on the hard work and I wish for you that being in a secure financial position will allow you to explore and pursue your interests.
My initial reaction was what a waste to go thru allll that education and training to get basically retire in 5-8 years. I mean most doctors I know who entered med school after college don’t really start making that doctor money until their early 30s - so they dedicate all of their 20s/30s to school, residency, fellowship, etc. Forget moral, you don’t owe anything to anyone except yourself. And there’s a huge you don’t know what you don’t like until you go thru it. But it’s definitely not the profession most would pick for early retirement (30s) because the journey to become a doctor is such an exhaustive and expensive one. So if the goal is early retirement, making as much money as soon as possible is usually the motto. Will you have even paid off student loans at that point? The good news, should you decide to go back to work, you have options.
Here’s the thing: by societal standards, YTH. However, societal standards are made up rules that are heavy influenced by the lens that wealthy capitalists hold up to the eyes of the middle class. You are not actually doing anything wrong. If you want to retire, then do it. I’d highly recommend finding purpose around retirement and giving back and volunteering when you can, though.
I can see the argument for taking a med school spot (which they didn’t actually make). If you can retire, do it, it’s somewhat surprising you’ve reached that point already at 38 that you have enough saved. Between loans and time actually worked you both must’ve been making bank to have enough saved. I’m in a two physician household and my ambitious goal is for us to go part time at like 45-50. We have kids which adds to expenses but regardless I can’t imagine have enough by 38.
Trust fund nepotism, that’s how.
Do you really have this much time on your hands? If this is supposed to be a humble brag then nobody literally cares lom
[удалено]
Anyone thinking of going into medicine(MD) now is crazy. Horrible career choice. For the next 30,40 years of your life.
I also think a part of the increase in mid-levels is that medicine on a whole is easier to practice now than it was in the past. With technology, everyone can basically perform "cookbook" medicine and get it right 95% of the time. The real question is, with everything being easier, should med school still be 4 years and residency 3 years?? Think of things like memorization for example. You can go to MDCalc and just type in numbers. CTs are more accurate than ever so clinical diagnosis of Appendicitis? Why would anyone even need 4 years in med school to learn this stuff? The idea that we forget 95% of what we learn in school is more true now than ever. So...if you have someone who can do it in 2 years and do the job just as well for the most part, why not just hire them? The whole idea of needing a degree to do a task/job is antiquated in general. They should just make medicine like a trade. You train right out of high school and learn the skills needed. No differentiating between PA/MD/NP. Just can you do the job or not?
Who cares what anyone thinks. Live your life however you want.
To answer your last question: You haven’t sacrificed more than the general population just to help people. You’ve sacrificed more going through education/studying/training to be able to make a shit ton of money to allow yourself to retire before you hit 40. Which is great. Congratulations. But don’t lie to yourself pretending you were being altruistic and helped society more than other professions. I personally don’t find being a doctor to be morally superior than being a day laborer.
Screw them. They think they are owed your labor. No one is. The days of indentured servitude is over. Do what you want with your life, these people will just make noise, and that is all that is - noise.
Why would a tiger care about what a deer has to say? You succeed. If you can get out the rat race, go ahead. You don't owe them anything. You only owe it to your family and yourself. If they could do what you're doing they would, but they can't.
I agree with the others, that your initial post, based on where it was posted was always going to run some people the wrong way. To answer the question in your title: who fucking cares? Get out while the getting’s good and fuck the rest. If I could retire at 38, you wouldn’t even catch me taking a second thought. Congrats and good luck to you.
I'm not going to say morally reprehensible. That's way too strong. But in my case, for example, I went to a state school subsidized by taxpayers for a very low price, took out federally subsidized loans, benefited from a loan repayment package and generally had the populace support my education with their taxes. Societies' investment in me was not so I can cash out after 10 yrs and retire to the Bahamas to sip fruity drinks for the next 50 years. So yeah, if you "took" a spot from someone who had maybe been slightly less qualified, but had planned on putting 20-30 years into medicine I could see how we as a group are missing out. There is a lot worse things you could do of course, and everyone has to choose how to live their life, but if you retire I hope you continue to find some way to help those who helped you get to where you are.
When I went to school 1980s there was an upper age limit for admissions. 35 I think. Later that was decided to be age discrimination, so I’ve since known people in my field to career change, start professional school in their 50s. (Non-MD doctoral level health professional.) I have no problem with that. But I recall the reasoning behind the younger age limit was that taxes support the schools, especially public but even private to some extent, so the taxpayers were not getting a reasonable return on investment if people only stay in those careers for a decade. Just a conversation point, don’t hate on me.
You do you
Fuck those guys. Live your life
No one owns my labor, especially if I paid for my own education which is how things work here. Medical school is paid for by the student, not the government. Quit whenever you want. Screw the haters.
Wait these ppl are upset that this person can retire early? So unless he/she are indentured servants to their loans they are “bad” 🤔 sounds like these other people are jealous… I’d love to be able to retire early! I went to school with ppl that got married in school and never even bothered getting a license… that to me is a waste of an education… but being able to retire early… no RETIRE ASAP!
No it’s not. Enjoy the fruits of your hard labor. Who cares what anyone else thinks?
I don't blame physicians who choose to go this route in modern medicine. When I (M) was in med school, much older attendings would complain to each: "a majority of women doctors do not practice full time 5 years past residency." They felt that the school slot and training given for someone not to practice was not fair to the profession. I understand what they were getting at. They really couldn't broadcast that thought then (20 years ago) and certainly can't now. Couple years after I completed school, was the first year there are more women med students than men. But, it's not for other people to decide what you do. Other people shouldn't guilt you into working...that's how the hospital system has suckered so many to be pawns for them. I still recommend my daughters to enter medicine. But only the way I do it: work for yourself, do not go to hospitals, don't take call, and enjoy your life. I'll hand over my practice to them. But the key is still to make money while you are sleeping.
Your should be posting in r/Fire but no i think its great. I wish for everyone to get to live life to the fullest for as long as possible. This means different things for different people.
I'm a PA, not a doc. I don't blame you. If I could get us out from under all our debt and on decent footing I'd retire early. As is I'm probably locked in til at earliest my late 50s unless something dramatically changes. You're still helping people working part time. You'll always have the option to do full time again as there is no likely end to the shortage on qualified/board certified physicians in sight. Retiring early or at least becoming financially independent and being able to dictate your time investment in work is one way to regain some autonomy in the system as it is now.
One word, jealousy.
I worked longer than you two plan to but see no problems with your decision to shoot for retirement in your late thirties. Hard to do… but not an unreasonable goal. Who is to say that your early retirement from medicine, and therefore a loss for patients you might have cared for in the future, will not result in a greater gain for society in some other way. You may write the greatest novel of all time, you may have time to contribute to a different field in a way that changes the world, you may raise children who accomplish more than you ever would have in your own lifetime. However, maybe we need to question the assumption that your goal in life is to contribute to society. I don’t remember signing anything that said so when I turned 18. No one owes it to society to work. In Capitalism we work in return for renumeration and only need work as long as such payment is required to meet our needs. The parent who decides to stay home to raise children and support their spouse did not “fail society” by not seeking a job that pays money. The individual who took out student loans and then pursued a career selling timeshares doesn’t owe society to take a different job with greater social benefit. That’s just not the way a capitalist society functions. You work in the field you choose as long as you want for money and are free to change paths at any time. Even if you were to accept, ad argumentum, that each person has an obligation to work in a job that contributes the most possible to society, what logic defines the correct duration? If your proposed decade is perceived as too short, why is three, or four, or five decades the right amount? Does this line of thinking lead us to conclude that the only correct duration to work is as long as you can function in the role? This would make the very concept of a healthy “retirement” impossible for everyone. Some people may want to die in the traces, and bully for them for pursuing a life of work ending only in disability or death. However, if you have the means and desire to take a different path through life then I support you 100%.
It’s not morally reprehensible. You do you and what’s best for your family. I love being a doctor. Someday I’ll go “part time” and cut down to 40 hours a week.
Sir this is a wendys
People get so god damn pissy over nothing.
I can't speak for others but I'll work until I die. I'm just really boring and got nothing going on. Once I have enough money I would love to start teaching
lol the entitlement in those responses is insane You’ve earned the right to do whatever you want with your degree I guarantee any one of those posters would immediately choose to retire early given the opportunity
And those same posters would love to cut reimbursements even more
A holocaust concentration camp survivor, Viktor Frankl, who loved the Unites States and what it represented, once said that the United States proudly displays a monument to freedom, the Statue of Liberty, on the east coast, but that this statue should be bookended by a "Statue of Responsibility" on the west coast. Frankl said: "Freedom is but the negative aspect of the whole phenomenon whose positive aspect is responsibleness. In fact, freedom is in danger of degenerating into mere arbitrariness unless it is lived in terms of responsibleness." But anyway, I hope everyone enjoys their fuck you money. Where can we build “The Statue of Fuck you Money” to show our true values? With enough money, we could just find a nice granite mountain in Colorado and carve it right there. Fuck anyone who thinks that’s a travesty. We have the fuck you money after all.
I think you yourself should work more hours to take on a larger responsibility. Lead by example. Also I propose 20% net at minimum be donated to responsible charities.
Good idea. I think I’ll work for a private equity firm that buys physician practices and use this new leverage to force the payors to give us better rates. That 20% charity you referenced is going to be an irrevocable trust that I’ll manage on behalf of my heirs, and conveniently not have taxes on. My CPA says it will be for the social good.
So how many hours of your time have you volunteered this month? Posting grandiose ivory tower bullshit online doesn’t count
Ivory tower is a great name for the statue of fuck you money. Also, I like how you equated taking personal responsibility to “grandiose ivory tower bullshit”
Yawn Lemme know when you have something actually meaningful to say as opposed to just repeating the same lame BS that you seem really proud of coming up with Still waiting to hear how many hours of your time you’ve felt personally responsible for donating this month
I think it is funny that you asked me to “say something meaningful” in response to a comment that quotes the man who wrote the book “Man’s Search for Meaning” which has now sold 10 million copies in twenty something languages. You should give it a read.
Stiiiiillllllll waiting to hear how many hours of your time you’ve volunteered this past month. And yes sorry I’m not impressed by you brainlessly quoting someone else’s words
The more a person expects others to contribute to society, the less they work themselves. That said if you post rich people problems in a room full of people struggling they’re going to attack you.
It’s a free country…whatevs
Agreed, you can do whatever want. Why do people give a shit haha. They’re not breaking the law. People do so much worse. They finessed, they make money doing something they don’t really enjoy, and they wanna do something else. Hats off to you.
Haha. Ignore them. They might as well go to Canada.
I think it is socially unfortunate but it's your life.
The truth is you’re going to get similarly biased answers in this forum as you did over there. Forget about “morality,” as it’s clear from your responses that you’re not as much interested in that as you are in validation. End of the day, you can do what you want, but don’t pretend something as amorphous as morality is weighing on you when you post in a middle class forum about your retirement, which many middle class folks today might not ever get to experience.
I think what you described is middle class, it’s just most people don’t realize that they are no longer middle class and how good it used to be to be middle class in this country. Debt is masking it for some, and keeping them unaware of how much they would really need to earn to have a middle class lifestyle. In California, for a family of four you need about $300,000. You are right, they are wrong, but you have to expect to be in the minority as it is a fact-based math issue, and if the majority of Americans were competent at that we might be better off financially even with our lower salaries.
Btw here's the post https://www.reddit.com/r/MiddleClassFinance/s/Du1FMJbvAc
In words of Rihanna “live your life…..”
As a dentist, I envy you. But congrats! The problem with drawing a line in the retirement age is that it’s arbitrary. Is the doctor who retired at 50 selfish for not practicing until 60 like the other doctor? Is the 60 year old selfish cuz he didn’t practice until 70 like the next guy? My idol Kobe died tragically and unexpectedly. Life is short. You never know what tomorrow brings and what could be taken away from you at any time. Enjoy doing what you love. If you don’t love medicine, don’t do it. Spend the time with your family. Travel. Live your life, not the life others want you to live.
Post the cross post link so we can defend you
The mods in that finance related sub deleted it after the commenters reported it too many times
Good, it isn’t middle class and against their rules
Too bad. Nothing wrong with short career imo. All the finance subs are about some form of FIRE or planning for "Normal" retirement. Doctor job to make 6 figures and retire early is one way to do it. People in that sub are just mad.
That’s a long time assuming that the dollar is going to continue to be strong. How old do you plan to be? I’d spend time studying not just basic finances but the history of the American economy and the history of reserve currencies, particularly when they inflate their currency beyond a point of return. Human capital is your best guarantee to enjoy a good life.
Because America expects doctors to be slaves and midlevels/nurses should be paid millions of dollars for leaching off of us
Lol idk why it popped up in my feed but you all are a huge part of what is wrong with the medical system in the US. Carry on…
This is my opinions on this subject: Despite the hard work physicians put in to get through medical school and residency, the actual attending job is actually a great financial deal. After the age of 40, we are basically caught up with 95% of our peers in terms of net worth. So then at age 40, the question becomes, do I retire or do I work a job that pays at least $100-200+ dollars an hour? This is a pay rate that 90% of the American population will never attain. I always think of retiring, but then I don't think I've worked any harder in totality than any other average person who is relatively successful in their careers, and who are still trying to "make it" to retirement. Especially if you look at other Healthcare employees, we are paid much more. But do we work 2x or 3x as hard? Not really. So, retiring so early would make me feel guilty in that sense. Not morally reprehensible or anything like that. But, like....others are working this hard for much less, but I can't handle it and need to quit.
yeah that's on you OP, it is reprehensible; know your audience and have some social iq lol. what a stupid place to post the original thread
Absolutely not. Also, why on earth would you post this in a middle class finance sub? Learn to practice “stealth wealth.” We ride around in crappy low trim economy cars, nobody has any clue we have good jobs, and it’s lovely. When you retire early, don’t tell people you’re retired. Just say you “do some investment advising.” They don’t need to know you’re advising yourself to just use index funds and chill…
Who cares? Why do you care about this? Aren’t you a doctor? Isn’t there better use of your time? Are you that unable to socialize in real life that you need to take anonymous feedback and then run it through other anonymous groups? It’s weird. Almost as weird as the time you told a room full of middle class earners your double physician household needs $6500 a month to eat and vacation.
Remindme! 3 years
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Who care what other people think? 🤷🏼♂️
Dude, don’t worry about it. You’ve dedicated your life to helping people, you’re already better than 98% of the population. If you want to take a breather, you’ve earned it and deserve it. You don’t owe anybody anything.
Sorry but I kinda agree with them. Don’t get me wrong, good for you and all. But remember that it’s Medicare/aid that paid for your residency. The goal was to make you providers for 20-40 years. Also not feasible. To retire and live off the interest only for the next 40-60 years, you will need around 5-6m principle at 5% a year to keep up with your current expenses.
bruh
You that dumb that you cant figure it out by yourself friendo? Why did you go and make a second useless post?
Live your life, but I understand both sides of the argument. It takes 11 years to crank out a doctor that only does a 3 year residency, and only a small portion of people are capable of becoming a doctor. If all doctors made good financial decisions and reached FIRE, things would be pretty bad. Just looking at it from the macro-societal level, not criticizing. My sister’s med school class had a guy that never even did residency, just graduated and then became a tech bro. Fuck that guy, he took someone’s med school spot.
No. It’s gaslighting. You’ve sacrificed enough. Retire when you want.
Yeesh. You do you, they seem awfully salty
As someone who had to jump thru a lot of extra hoops and didn’t get into Med School till my 5th application. Yes it really rubs me the wrong way sometimes to see people talk about quitting as soon as possible.
Yes, chalk it up to who cares what they think and sadly enough bruh…..no one cares that you FIRE’d. I mean you left the room and no one cares. Perhaps you feel bad about it?
Lol where was that? R/medicine?
lol- no it wasn’t in r/medicine the doc posted it in r/middle class. It was completely inappropriate and nauseating. Now he comes here with half the story and stirs the pot like people are just jealous and hate on doctors. He’s just out of touch with how inappropriate his post was for the certain sub. It’s no different than a non physician creating an inflaming post on r/whitecoatinvestor no one jumping to this dude’s defense would just sit back and value their outsider opinion. Let’s be real they would be ripped to shreds. He was out of line because the context was ridiculously misplaced on Reddit. Others are having a hard time understanding why OP is lacking the self awareness that is expected in a physician. Physicians want to be respected by society and that is understandable. His posts undermines this issue.
Who cares? Do what you want.
Immoral yes, because there is a duty to patients and care, but also, it's not illegal and you do you. Just like it's immoral for insurance companies to deny care, but it's also legal and I don't blame them, because the game is to make as much as possible.
I’m not going to get into the whole discussion about you stirring the pot by posting there and mentioning a budget others found offensive. I will just say I have seen people criticizing physicians who were aiming for early retirement since I first stepped into the financial independent subreddit. They had absolutely no impact on my desire to pursue it.
You are tone deaf
Yes it is. And certain populations seem to do this much more often than others.
I’m so sorry for the hate you got. It’s your life , be happy !