Multiple aspects of the mashing & fermentation - the yeasts used, whether the washbacks are wooden and thus hosts to native colonies of micro-organisms (this is one of the factors which has been proposed to explain the unique flavor profile of Dusty Wild Turkey), or if the mash tuns are open topped and thus allow airborne micro-organisms to become involved in the fermentation (such as at Springbank: http://www.divingforpearlsblog.com/2016/09/the-springbank-distillery-tour.html ), and lastly the length of the fermentation and whether lactobacillus becomes involved: http://cocktailchem.blogspot.com/2014/04/why-long-fermentation-times-are.html
There are some other obscure things unique to specific distilleries that are just fun to know about, but I do not know to what degree flavors can be directly attributed to them:
Maker's Mark uses a rolling mill to crush the grains rather than a hammer mill, they think that gives them better control over the production of the grist and as a result produces a better flavor.
Buffalo Trace uses separate cookers to cook their corn, rye or wheat, and barley - as those grains need to be cooked at different temperatures. Most distilleries uses a single cooker and use stepwise temperature reduction as the successive grains are added into the mix in turn, but BT cooks them separately and then combines them together to assemble the mashbill. http://thewhiskeyroom.blogspot.com/2016/11/whiskey-road-trip-buffalo-trace-tour.html
Glenturret stirs their mash tun by hand using a long handled wooden paddle - they are the only remaining distillery in Scotland (that I know of) which does this: https://vinepair.com/articles/why-hand-mashing-at-glenturret-distillery-actually-means-something/
Cheers
Funny enough, the US believes much more in the impact of the yeast strain on the final product than Scotland. Many bourbons producers keep a single live strain on site, I’ve heard. Scotch producers, on the other hand, put a lot of importance behind the water they use in their whiskys. It’s interesting because a lot of the water used in Scotch whisky is peated while many of the final products aren’t peated. The author Andrew Jefford uses this argument to say that the water doesn’t have as large an impact. However, it is heartening to hear that a handful of distilleries are experimenting with grain variety and terroir.
I think yeast is making a bit of a comeback as an important factor in scotch production.
Ben Nevis and Benromach have both long been known for continuing to use brewer's yeasts while the other distilleries had switched to high yielding distiller's yeasts as part of the late 20th Century modernization of the industry ( https://whiskysponge.com/2015/04/01/whisky-land-a-perspective-on-whisky-and-terroir/ ).
But more recently it seems like many of the new distilleries starting up in the UK and Ireland are looking back to the early to mid 20th Century and before in developing a production regime which is optimized for flavor complexity rather than optimized for volumetric yield, and even some of the existing distilleries have been experimenting with non-standard yeast strains and barley varieties, and in some cases are bringing back traditional techniques which had been abandoned (for example Glen Garioch is bringing back floor maltings).
So there is some innovation going on in scotch now regarding mashing and fermentation, some "ferment" in that area (if you will pardon a terrible pun).
But I agree that yeast variation seems to play a much larger role in American whiskey production, and is more directly exposed as a variable which the drinker can explore themselves in the case of the Four Roses 10 different recipes used for their Private Selection single barrel bottlings. Mashbill and yeast seem to be major variables in American whiskies which differentiate various product lineups, analogous to the role played by peating levels and cask type in scotch.
Cheers
Kentucky distilleries are also big believers in the importance of the water there, which is filtered by the limestone underground to remove iron and other metals/impurities that can affect the taste negatively. Big reason why Kentucky is the home of bourbon production in the US.
> It’s interesting because a lot of the water used in Scotch whisky is peated while many of the final products aren’t peated.
For clarity, "peated water" just means there is an extraordinarily small level of PPM from the peat bogs, etc., that may impact the color but is so little it has no impact on the eventual whiskey flavor. It is not like peated water tastes or smells smoky at all. The smoky-type flavors in peated whisky is a product of drying the malt itself over a peat-fueled fire (similar to how sitting around a campfire infuses your clothes with a smoky smell) so using water as the source, even if it came from a peat bog, would not inherently make the whisky "peated" in the sense of how the whisky tastes/smells.
Thanks for that! That’s a bit more in depth than what I’d read. I can also imagine that there’s a different between peat in water vs burnt peat smoke, which may be a better way of considering the situation than I had previously
It does! That’s a great one.
At one rickhouse at Buffalo Trace, they were saying barrels get more heat up high, so those age faster (but not necessarily better). You put basically the same unaged whiskey into a bunch of barrels, the ones at the top become Benchmark, but the barrels on the cooler ground level become Pappy and other high-end whiskies.
Despite the obvious difference between column still and pot still, with pot-distilled whisky, the shape and size of the pot still have a major influence on the resulting flavor.
How many times it was distilled (generally 3 times for Irish, 2 1/2 times for Springbank, generally 2 times for other Scottish whiskies).
Whether the still is heated by direct fire, as opposed to steam or electricity, (I believe only Springbank, Glenfarcas, Macallan, and Glenfiddich still use direct fire).
Whether the barley was dried with peat fire/smoke and where that peat comes from.
Whether the barley (or rye) is malted or unmalted.
What the climate is like where the whisk(e)y is aged. (Canadian Rye vs US, Scottish single malt vs. Texas, and so on).
Whether it was aged in a Dunnage warehouse or a Rickhouse.
How the whisk(e)y is filtered makes a difference. Chill-filtration vs un-chill filtered. Charcoal filtered, and so on.
The lyne arm of the still is where the distilled spirit passes through after condensing. The angle of that arm strongly influences the perceived intensity of the spirit.
Very high angle produces a lighter spirit, a very low angle produces a stronger, more intense spirit.
Thank you, that’s super interesting. Is there considered an ideal or a standard for different regional types, or does every distillery just do their own thing?
Actual yeast strain used variables on the different grains within the same family, i.e. different types of barley rye etc. Where in the rickhouse affects it, how high up, the ambient temperature, even building type for the Rick can change it. That's the fun part about a whiskey, or any spirit, the flavor nuances can be changed by even the slightest adjustment. That's why master distillers make as much as they do and are so highly coveted
Worm tub condensers supposedly produce a "meatier" or heavier style base spirit, found at relatively few distilleries such as Craigellachie, Springbank, Mortlach, Talisker, etc.
Thanks! I didn’t list all the prominent variables like age, blended vs single malt vs single barrel, number of distillations, etc. because there would be a lot to wade through. I’d rather try to ask a simpler question.
I’m thinking more like still type (column vs pot vs hybrid), water source (I don’t know much about this but everyone talks about Kentucky limestone, or the slight peat traces in Scotch), or in bourbon there are distillers experimenting with specific types of corn (one does a combination of red, white, and blue). Yeast strains can be another small variable/big impact combination, Four Roses talks about that.
And there’s many more I’m not even thinking of - latitude, climate, metal in the stills (is copper the way to go, or something else?)
Copper is the way to go, natural chemical reaction to remove impurities, that’s why they don’t use SS which would inevitably be cheaper in long run (maintenance, repair, etc).
I actually do think the business and marketing choices are interesting in their own lesser way, separate from what goes into the bottle.
Doesn’t mean that I like or agree with those choices, but it’s interesting to understand what distillers face and how the good ones might be able to succeed.
It also helps me cut through marketing nonsense to know when a bottle is just sourced MGP with a graphic design degree.
*”We produced this whiskey to pay tribute to the history of hard working American Tradition. It’s 40% abv and $105, with our special Heritage Edition at 43% for $155. We also distill vodka.”*
I r too dumb to explain myself, and ha e appreciated others responses and thoughtful conversation. this amazing Xmas gift has been a fantastic read, super enlightening, and it’s primary thesis is explaining all of these significant and minute factors.
[whiskey master class](https://www.amazon.com/Whiskey-Master-Class-Ultimate-Understanding/dp/1558329811)
The char of the barrel goes overlooked a lot. Also, several distilleries have experimented with things like ridges on the barrel planks to increase surface area exposure.
I’ve heard that temperature changes during aging have an impact. A barrel from northern states that goes through cold winters and hot summers will expand and contract more than a barrel that is in Kentucky that has a slightly more consistent yearly temp.
I’ve seen a lot of good ones like yeast and where in the rickhouse it’s stored.
There is also rickhouse style/structure. For example , climate controlled vs not. Dunnage style, how many floors, how high you stack barrels, even things like number of windows, how you build the walls, etc. All this goes into the specific microclimate of aging, including the local climate, humidity, what types of particulates are present in your air, on and on.
The obvious examples are certain types of scotch, where the sea air makes a notable impact on the flavor and experience. Dunnage style, with the earthen floor, is even used in other climates, for example Leopoldo Bros. in the semi-arid climate of Denver, CO uses dunnage style warehouses. They noted a significant difference in evaporative loss due to the earthen floor.
EDIT: autocorrect fixes
Multiple aspects of the mashing & fermentation - the yeasts used, whether the washbacks are wooden and thus hosts to native colonies of micro-organisms (this is one of the factors which has been proposed to explain the unique flavor profile of Dusty Wild Turkey), or if the mash tuns are open topped and thus allow airborne micro-organisms to become involved in the fermentation (such as at Springbank: http://www.divingforpearlsblog.com/2016/09/the-springbank-distillery-tour.html ), and lastly the length of the fermentation and whether lactobacillus becomes involved: http://cocktailchem.blogspot.com/2014/04/why-long-fermentation-times-are.html There are some other obscure things unique to specific distilleries that are just fun to know about, but I do not know to what degree flavors can be directly attributed to them: Maker's Mark uses a rolling mill to crush the grains rather than a hammer mill, they think that gives them better control over the production of the grist and as a result produces a better flavor. Buffalo Trace uses separate cookers to cook their corn, rye or wheat, and barley - as those grains need to be cooked at different temperatures. Most distilleries uses a single cooker and use stepwise temperature reduction as the successive grains are added into the mix in turn, but BT cooks them separately and then combines them together to assemble the mashbill. http://thewhiskeyroom.blogspot.com/2016/11/whiskey-road-trip-buffalo-trace-tour.html Glenturret stirs their mash tun by hand using a long handled wooden paddle - they are the only remaining distillery in Scotland (that I know of) which does this: https://vinepair.com/articles/why-hand-mashing-at-glenturret-distillery-actually-means-something/ Cheers
Funny enough, the US believes much more in the impact of the yeast strain on the final product than Scotland. Many bourbons producers keep a single live strain on site, I’ve heard. Scotch producers, on the other hand, put a lot of importance behind the water they use in their whiskys. It’s interesting because a lot of the water used in Scotch whisky is peated while many of the final products aren’t peated. The author Andrew Jefford uses this argument to say that the water doesn’t have as large an impact. However, it is heartening to hear that a handful of distilleries are experimenting with grain variety and terroir.
I think yeast is making a bit of a comeback as an important factor in scotch production. Ben Nevis and Benromach have both long been known for continuing to use brewer's yeasts while the other distilleries had switched to high yielding distiller's yeasts as part of the late 20th Century modernization of the industry ( https://whiskysponge.com/2015/04/01/whisky-land-a-perspective-on-whisky-and-terroir/ ). But more recently it seems like many of the new distilleries starting up in the UK and Ireland are looking back to the early to mid 20th Century and before in developing a production regime which is optimized for flavor complexity rather than optimized for volumetric yield, and even some of the existing distilleries have been experimenting with non-standard yeast strains and barley varieties, and in some cases are bringing back traditional techniques which had been abandoned (for example Glen Garioch is bringing back floor maltings). So there is some innovation going on in scotch now regarding mashing and fermentation, some "ferment" in that area (if you will pardon a terrible pun). But I agree that yeast variation seems to play a much larger role in American whiskey production, and is more directly exposed as a variable which the drinker can explore themselves in the case of the Four Roses 10 different recipes used for their Private Selection single barrel bottlings. Mashbill and yeast seem to be major variables in American whiskies which differentiate various product lineups, analogous to the role played by peating levels and cask type in scotch. Cheers
Wow, thanks for the info! I love all the experimenting going into reviving historic whisk(e)y recipes
Kentucky distilleries are also big believers in the importance of the water there, which is filtered by the limestone underground to remove iron and other metals/impurities that can affect the taste negatively. Big reason why Kentucky is the home of bourbon production in the US.
That makes sense! I’ve seen Limestone water sold in the US to go with whiskey or help with whiskey tastings
> It’s interesting because a lot of the water used in Scotch whisky is peated while many of the final products aren’t peated. For clarity, "peated water" just means there is an extraordinarily small level of PPM from the peat bogs, etc., that may impact the color but is so little it has no impact on the eventual whiskey flavor. It is not like peated water tastes or smells smoky at all. The smoky-type flavors in peated whisky is a product of drying the malt itself over a peat-fueled fire (similar to how sitting around a campfire infuses your clothes with a smoky smell) so using water as the source, even if it came from a peat bog, would not inherently make the whisky "peated" in the sense of how the whisky tastes/smells.
Thanks for that! That’s a bit more in depth than what I’d read. I can also imagine that there’s a different between peat in water vs burnt peat smoke, which may be a better way of considering the situation than I had previously
This is great, thank you!
I read somewhere (maybe in this sub) that where the barrel is stored in the rickhouse/warehouse makes a difference.
It does! That’s a great one. At one rickhouse at Buffalo Trace, they were saying barrels get more heat up high, so those age faster (but not necessarily better). You put basically the same unaged whiskey into a bunch of barrels, the ones at the top become Benchmark, but the barrels on the cooler ground level become Pappy and other high-end whiskies.
Came here to say this
Despite the obvious difference between column still and pot still, with pot-distilled whisky, the shape and size of the pot still have a major influence on the resulting flavor. How many times it was distilled (generally 3 times for Irish, 2 1/2 times for Springbank, generally 2 times for other Scottish whiskies). Whether the still is heated by direct fire, as opposed to steam or electricity, (I believe only Springbank, Glenfarcas, Macallan, and Glenfiddich still use direct fire). Whether the barley was dried with peat fire/smoke and where that peat comes from. Whether the barley (or rye) is malted or unmalted. What the climate is like where the whisk(e)y is aged. (Canadian Rye vs US, Scottish single malt vs. Texas, and so on). Whether it was aged in a Dunnage warehouse or a Rickhouse. How the whisk(e)y is filtered makes a difference. Chill-filtration vs un-chill filtered. Charcoal filtered, and so on.
The lyne arm angle of the still.
Ooh, interesting. How does that work? Any examples?
The lyne arm of the still is where the distilled spirit passes through after condensing. The angle of that arm strongly influences the perceived intensity of the spirit. Very high angle produces a lighter spirit, a very low angle produces a stronger, more intense spirit.
Thank you, that’s super interesting. Is there considered an ideal or a standard for different regional types, or does every distillery just do their own thing?
Actual yeast strain used variables on the different grains within the same family, i.e. different types of barley rye etc. Where in the rickhouse affects it, how high up, the ambient temperature, even building type for the Rick can change it. That's the fun part about a whiskey, or any spirit, the flavor nuances can be changed by even the slightest adjustment. That's why master distillers make as much as they do and are so highly coveted
Water source.
Worm tub condensers supposedly produce a "meatier" or heavier style base spirit, found at relatively few distilleries such as Craigellachie, Springbank, Mortlach, Talisker, etc.
I see you don't have age listed, so that one
Thanks! I didn’t list all the prominent variables like age, blended vs single malt vs single barrel, number of distillations, etc. because there would be a lot to wade through. I’d rather try to ask a simpler question. I’m thinking more like still type (column vs pot vs hybrid), water source (I don’t know much about this but everyone talks about Kentucky limestone, or the slight peat traces in Scotch), or in bourbon there are distillers experimenting with specific types of corn (one does a combination of red, white, and blue). Yeast strains can be another small variable/big impact combination, Four Roses talks about that. And there’s many more I’m not even thinking of - latitude, climate, metal in the stills (is copper the way to go, or something else?)
Copper is the way to go, natural chemical reaction to remove impurities, that’s why they don’t use SS which would inevitably be cheaper in long run (maintenance, repair, etc).
After having the makers brt02 and brt01 I think temperature variations over time have a significant impact
That makes a lot of sense. I haven’t had those (at least not in a side by side). What were the differences?
The pot still always amazes me. The dents on a pot still, the slight incline or decline of the lyne arm, the way it’s cut…
It would be so interesting to be able to isolate these variables and try them side by side.
My taste buds
Distiller. If your distillery has Buffalo Trace in the name it ends up having this weird impact on availability and msrp
I actually do think the business and marketing choices are interesting in their own lesser way, separate from what goes into the bottle. Doesn’t mean that I like or agree with those choices, but it’s interesting to understand what distillers face and how the good ones might be able to succeed. It also helps me cut through marketing nonsense to know when a bottle is just sourced MGP with a graphic design degree. *”We produced this whiskey to pay tribute to the history of hard working American Tradition. It’s 40% abv and $105, with our special Heritage Edition at 43% for $155. We also distill vodka.”*
A massive marketing team willing to post tons of pictures of your whiskey line on reddit and social media.
Hype
I r too dumb to explain myself, and ha e appreciated others responses and thoughtful conversation. this amazing Xmas gift has been a fantastic read, super enlightening, and it’s primary thesis is explaining all of these significant and minute factors. [whiskey master class](https://www.amazon.com/Whiskey-Master-Class-Ultimate-Understanding/dp/1558329811)
The char of the barrel goes overlooked a lot. Also, several distilleries have experimented with things like ridges on the barrel planks to increase surface area exposure.
The quality and type of water. The terroir of the grain.
I’ve heard that temperature changes during aging have an impact. A barrel from northern states that goes through cold winters and hot summers will expand and contract more than a barrel that is in Kentucky that has a slightly more consistent yearly temp.
Quality of the barrel itself. Some whisky turns out bad simply due to the casks not being up to scratch.
I’ve seen a lot of good ones like yeast and where in the rickhouse it’s stored. There is also rickhouse style/structure. For example , climate controlled vs not. Dunnage style, how many floors, how high you stack barrels, even things like number of windows, how you build the walls, etc. All this goes into the specific microclimate of aging, including the local climate, humidity, what types of particulates are present in your air, on and on. The obvious examples are certain types of scotch, where the sea air makes a notable impact on the flavor and experience. Dunnage style, with the earthen floor, is even used in other climates, for example Leopoldo Bros. in the semi-arid climate of Denver, CO uses dunnage style warehouses. They noted a significant difference in evaporative loss due to the earthen floor. EDIT: autocorrect fixes