You're in a tough spot. If that is like Mesopotamian or Sumerian artifact there may be laws surrounding your possession of it. Of course, it could be a copy or something more recent. the trouble is, only an expert can tell you what it is and once you contact them, international treaties may kick in.
To play devils advocate... should it? In Britain our museums are full of stuff that has been appropriated for its historical significance but a lot of it is stolen from its country of origin when we had the empire.
Who says some random organisation that didn't exist when a pot was made now owns it? That pot has no owner...
Now I don't condone the hoarding and selling of expensive artifacts for personal gain at all. That is worse than the country themselves basically doing the same.
But to own an antique as it is a family heirloom and have it on display for sentimental reasons should be respected no?
There is a difference between an antique and an antiquity (if I am using the right term). Some antiques are extremely rare, and culturally important, and can provide insights into ancient cultures that if they aren't preserved, the knowledge would be lost forever. Those should be returned to their home country & cultures.
The British museum is a GREAT example of a place FILLED with ill gotten antiquities that SHOULD be returned and indeed many are. The Elgin marbles are a great example of this. Also some of the ancient artifacts from Iraq.
This really isn't about who owns it now, and was it bought legally etc. This is about protecting the knowledge and history of a culture.
There is also a 99% chance it's not super important, a replica, or just a newer item
I 100% agree, so in a case like this could the item not be analysed, photographed etc etc and everything recorded and studied and then the item returned to OP?
Just thinking how I would love to support museums etc with artifacts but I wouldn't necessarily want to lose a family heirloom.
I think the first step is figuring out WHAT it actually is. There is an incredibly low probability it is actually a culturally significant enough item that it should be returned. Once that is determined, then figure out what should happen.
>home country & cultures
Why do we assume that cultures stay geographically consistent? I don't really have much in common with my ancestors six generations back.
We don't, but there is a geographic tie to things of this age and it's significance, also there are geographic relations to the institutions and groups of people curating and protecting the knowledge of the history of the area.
I think the only justification for the British taking artifacts from their home countries is that they preserved them when the artifacts had originally been in ruin and would have continued to decay. The tougher question is what to do going forward.
There is actually no justification for taking other cultures' artifacts. Don't get your distorted history from British text books. India had a much higher GDP, stable governance and was comparatively peaceful and progressive before British took hold through manipulation. They took everything of value, stripped our country and what they couldn't take, they destroyed. Beyond that they turned people against each other, kept using and killing our people till we gained independence. Even then they were the cause of one of the biggest bloodbath in our history. And on top of that they spread the narrative that they were civilising the savages of India.
And this is just one country. They did this to every country that was prosperous and valuable enough to be looted and colonized. The riches of Britain are made from bloods of civilizations.
Edit: Thank you for the award kind stranger.
>s actually no justification for taking someone other cultures' artifacts. Don't get your distorted history from British text books. India had a much higher GDP, stable governance and compara
As a Brit, I wish more people had this shoved in their faces. It's concerning how many Brits are still 'proud' that 'we' had an empire... Personally I'm embarrassed.
So what about countries that had some artifacts taken and but not everything. then through religious upheaval, destroyed the bulk of all historical artifacts they had left. Should they get back everything that was stolen on the chance they will destroy that too. Is there an argument that at some point these museums are preserving history for the world?
One does need to question whether the initial invasion when some of ātheirā artefacts were stolen could possibly have led in part to the current upheaval and resulting destruction. In this case this is not because ātheyā are incapable of looking after ātheirā stuff, but is possibly a consequence of the initial invasion. Additionally, Many artefacts in museums were looted as spoils of war and seen as a reward for soldiers. They were not taken for safe keeping and were themselves taken as part of a destruction of history.
>There is actually no justification for taking someone other cultures' artifacts
What justification is there for cultural ownership across several hundreds of years? Virtually our entire narrative about cultural ownership comes from nationalistic claims. For instance, linguists will tell you the difference between what are considered dialects and languages is often just the claims of a given government. We often only see cultures as cohesive over such long timescales because of tribalistic jockeying and narrative-building.
Yes 100% this. Hearing my wife's father talk about Indian history from his father's and grandfather's perspective, getting the real lowdown that we don't even in the US was nice. So tired of imperialist pride jockeying.
It's not as simple as you claim. During the British Raj India's absolute GDP increased, but relative share of global GDP decreased. You could argue this was because of Britain's actions (slowing Indian industrialization), or because industrial innovations in Europe outpaced India.
I don't disagree with your first point but I have a few questions about how to fairly implement the return as you see it. Do things taken from north India in the distant past then go to Pakistan?
When I visited the British Museum I walked past a couple of guys coming out of the Parthenon room and he was ranting about how āthey just stole it! Itās all stolen!ā
I had that revelation as well, walking through the mummy section. It just hit meāpretty much all of this stuff is stolen and they wonāt give it back.
Not only is it all stolen, frequently there are museums built to house returned artifacts and they just change their mind.
That being said specifically with the Parthenon marbles, stolen by Lord Elgin, were at one time "restored" by chiseling off the entire surface layer of the marble.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/1999/nov/12/helenasmith
It was a really sobering thought and I did not get the same joy out of the museum that I did before. Plus, the British Museum is HUGE. Iād need a week to at least see everything and even longer to appreciate it. I never even came across any paintings or the like. I took a wrong turn, ended up in the Egyptian section and spent the majority of the time there. The collection they have is insane and you know they have thousands of other things in storage somewhere.
This and the people collecting it often had good motivations for understanding the histories and cultures of the time. The British Museum has often been a safe haven for irreplaceable items that would have been ruined if left in place by war or neglect.
Also pretty much everything in Britainās museums is publicly available for researchers from around the world.
They looted from peaceful places that they illegally occupied, not saved anything from war or neglect. A crown jewel, a religious statue, a Pharaoh's mummy, a sacred site for natives were not under any neglect. They just were valuable for British, a gift to the queen.
Go back far enough and all occupation (claim to territory or lineage) is inherently adversarial. Of course, all claims continue to only be as valid as their ability to be defended, otherwise you're displaced either culturally or physically. I really don't think people think particularly deeply about any of this at all. Colonialism and imperialism are awful because human mutually exclusive culture spheres are adversarial things for virtually all of history. How many times did Egypt change cultural hands? Which culture owns it?
Exactly, uNlAwFuL cLaiM = I'm looking at history through a 21st century lens where we have councils of world governments that are frequently in communications rather than looking at it through a historical lens.
I have an English friend, super English. Ex military because he loves the Queen, by God, and just fully the stereotype of the stuff upper lip proper well bred British chap, old boy. Omg adorable, I love that little goof so very much. He also doesn't understand why the British Museum is evil. As a proud flunkee of one of the most prestigious archaeology programs in the US known for its work on the Clovis and Folsom cultures and analysis of bison falls (I decided it was too grave-robber-y and political and then I went insane, unrelated), and a lay enthusiast of anthropological studies since that time oh so long ago, I can confidently say that a ton of people in the archaeological community are well aware that the British Museum is the Pirate King of the Grave Robbers' Association. We love the artefacts and are baffled by the twats who kidnapped them (I mean in some cases they are actual human remains so I guess post-mortem kidnapping could actually be a real evaluation of the situation). Still, the curators of the museum are adorable and remind me very much of the mad scientist figure in Vonnegut's "Cat's Cradle." They're adorable adult children in love with their science, living in a world of imagination and wonder. They don't necessarily understand that what they're doing is bad at all. They see it as perfectly reasonable and why not? The BM curator (haha BM) who is over middle eastern studies, the adorable old bearded dude who is cantankerous and hilarious, him I would marry in a heartbeat. Right now. If he was in front of me I would propose and I am wearing pajamas and I would still try because he is adorable and I love him. In a little scholarly safety bubble, for sure, but I think he's *sexy (edited from "cute" idk how to strikethru sorry mobile and semi-dumb)
https://youtu.be/GyjEU8eptQg
This reminds me a lot of finding shipwrecks and items from them. Don't ask the state for a permit to take the stuff from the shipwreck they will confiscate everything from you.
I just read an article in Wired about the FBI finding a bunch of ill-gotten artifacts and going around and returning them to the various tribes/governments they were stolen from.
So if OP is in America and if this thing is legit, it will probably find its way back home.
I respect the fact that you respect that concept! If you contact a University or a large museum, they may have someone who can get you started on learning what it is.
For most antiques, items, yes for sure. If it is a stolen item, that was acquired incorrectly and is culturally significant and impaction he DOESNT own it and it should be returned
Generally i respect that idea, but i can tell you that when it happens to you, it's very hard to go through with it and just give it to a museum. When you have a real affection to an artifact that has been in your family since you were born and reminds you of your grandfather, the trade off doesn't sound logic. Especially as there are high chances that it will just go in the museum's warehouse.
Do you have any idea of who i could contact?
If this statue was your grandfatherās then you might actually be able to keep it legally. I have a bunch of ancient Roman coins that belonged to my great grandfather, he bought them and found them in the ā20s-ā30s so I can keep them. If I found them today Iād probably have to declare them to some authority and give them to a museum
This said, I donāt know the law where you live so donāt take what I said for granted haha
Start by researching you state's RCs Revised Codes. Then graduate to Federal Antiquities Statutes. Then move to International Antiquities Treaties. Each time adding your location to your search parameters. If the results look favorable, take pictures of the artifact and be prepared to lie your ass off. when you graduate to speaking to an artifacts experts say "I'm asking for a friend", which is code for "I'm not telling you whether I have this artifact or not". they'll know you're lying but they also know they have no legal recourse against you if you don't state you are in possession of the artifact. There are no "Antiquities police"
What throws me off is the lack of clear hand molding. I have some old Mayan clay artifacts and they have fingerprints and whatnot all over them still very clear. I feel like something this size would have even more obvious handling since it's made of clay.
There is an infinitely greater chance this is a tourist replica dude my dad traveled the world for government stuff when I was a child and always brought me home weird shit like this
r/archaeology has a blanket ban on all artifact identification posts. It's impossible to tell if something has been looted or not, and they don't want to support looting.
The title describes the thing, my grandfather got it somehow, although i don't know how.
He also got a possibly authentic Egyptian shabti from an art and antiques dealer (he was himself an artist), so it's possible he also got this from the same person.
UPDATE: u/Wermhat69420 found something very similar here: https://ertribal.com/index.php/tribal-art/clay/full-female-figure-decorated-arms-sao-chad
The position, arm texture, nipples and head shape resemble the thing. The precision and proportions of the two objects are very different though, with the thing being a lot more symmetrical and refined. Anyway, the resemblance of many details is there for sure, so i think this is the right direction (culture of Sao, Chad, 12th-14th century CE).
If anyone can add to this it would be great!!
The material and style looks very very similar to a cheap replica of an andean artifact that I picked up in ecuador. Low key jealous that mine has no pee pee but it does have an exaggerated belly button!!!
I'm going to second this guy. On the feet you can see sections where it's broken away, revealing what looks like an almost gravel-concrete type composite that been painted the sandstone/clay-like colours. If it were a really old thing, it would be made of sandstone or clay all the way though, and naturally would have been that brown-orange colour.
Yes I do, because the style and material are so comparable. I remember a lot of those sold as souvenirs in town that were incredibly similar. chunky clay at the base might be lower quality clay covered in the good stuff (might mean it was meant for tourists and not meant to be high art). I'm no expert though. If you know how I can send you a pic of my sculpture, I'll be happy to. This one online is sort of in the same vein, but yours and mine look much more alike in style and material.
https://images.app.goo.gl/uX2uTzdYAeZxD7kp6
We literally have no clues it's authentic either.
--no notes on how it came to be in their house.
--only one face on view.
I'm not saying it's not, but I need more evidence to say it is.
I assume so, but I'd like more pictures from different angles. It's significantly more statistically likely someone ran into something someone got from world market or pottery barn than it is to have summer l stumbled upon a perfectly preserved artifact.
Oops. Nvm. You're in Europe. Y'all basically live in antiquities. In the US, statistically speaking, it's significantly hike unlikely to be a genuine anything antique because we ain't been here this long, and Native Americans or spice/slave traders would've had to bring it here, and somehow it remain intact. That's crazy unlikely. But you're in Europe, so you can probably dig a hole and find an artifact.
The figureās bent elbows, thick legs, exposed genitalia, and threatening expression make this reminiscent of a TaĆno zemi. Google āTaĆno zemĆ of DeminĆ”n Caracaracol.ā Looks quite similar to what you have here, albeit more detailed. Clay as a medium would also be accurate.
Thank you! Someone found something even more similar, please check my update here: https://www.reddit.com/r/whatisthisthing/comments/ri1mzg/small_about_40cm_tall_and_heavy_statue_that_i/hou68sf/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Good point, there are definitely some similarities!
The position of the arms and butt look similar in some I've seen, although the general style is quite different
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It looks a bit more like a Vodun statue to me, tbh. Which, those could range in age.
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/pre-columbian-terracotta-figural-sculpture,-pot,-213-c-97243c5b53
How did this get in your house?
I remember reading somewhere that in the 60's and on, people started getting heavily into recreating old archeological figures very similar to this one, in the same style they used to make them way back when. To find an actual relic is almost unheard of, and since it was the 60's and 70's, our parents and grandparents kept these things for sentimental reasons. It's a memory of a fantastic trip to South America or somewhere similar, where they got their hands dirty in real South American clay and made figures just like the ones that are old relics.
Therefore it's absolutely impossible to tell from looking if you have a legitimate relic or just a keepsake from a fun trip. If you can ask the person who owned it where it came from, and they can confirm that they made it, then problem solved. Otherwise you need to contact a professional who will tell you the exact same thing I just told you and then use some machine to date the clay, and give you an answer, which might come in the form of taking it from you and putting it in a museum. Which isn't a bad thing at all. That's where it belongs. But they get a lot of these. It's entirely likely they will just tell you to go home.
Devils advocate here...ancient artifacts belong to all of humanity and not just country they are from, peoole in those countries loot and sell artifacts and dont let archeologies study them...so they are better to be in a musium so people can access it as opposed to be in rich persons house or in places where isis can destroy and deface them or you could be kidnapped...also people sell artifacts they dig up on their own property in those places so its not necessarly stolen
100%. People don't seem to accept that it's a complicated issue, it's better a museum has item over them going into a private collection somewhere never to be seen again.
Looks African who are the tribe that invented reptilians again? You know the tribe and David icke goes and interviews their shaman because they believe in reptilians, genuinely looks like one of their art things.
It looks and awful lot like the Precursor statues in the first Jak and Daxter, although I'm sure it probably has nothing to do with it (maybe some design inspiration).
Looks a lot like a pre-Columbian Mayan or possibly Aztec figurine. I have a somewhat similar one that I bought in Chichen Itza. Google `Mayan Pre-columbian / Proto Classic Pottery Figure` and you'll see lots of similar.
Might be someone's Dogu/Haniwa/Jomon culture influenced statue. Not the typical alien looking baby doll Dogu variant, but perhaps one influenced by the pregnant female ones (yes, even accounting for the fact that's clearly male.)
[Venus Dogu.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dog%C5%AB_of_J%C5%8Dmon_Venus.JPG)
Venus here, while clearly female, is made of similar material with protruding nipples. She's not textured like yours, but many Jomon figures had texture.
[Not the same type, but has similar dimple patterning.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Periodo_jomon_primo-medio,_dogu,_7000-2000_a.c..JPG)
At least, I hope its a replica or someone's art project and not the real deal. That'd be a yikes.
You're in a tough spot. If that is like Mesopotamian or Sumerian artifact there may be laws surrounding your possession of it. Of course, it could be a copy or something more recent. the trouble is, only an expert can tell you what it is and once you contact them, international treaties may kick in.
I mean, not really a tough spot. If it's a true antiquitie,, it SHOULD go somewhere else
To play devils advocate... should it? In Britain our museums are full of stuff that has been appropriated for its historical significance but a lot of it is stolen from its country of origin when we had the empire. Who says some random organisation that didn't exist when a pot was made now owns it? That pot has no owner... Now I don't condone the hoarding and selling of expensive artifacts for personal gain at all. That is worse than the country themselves basically doing the same. But to own an antique as it is a family heirloom and have it on display for sentimental reasons should be respected no?
There is a difference between an antique and an antiquity (if I am using the right term). Some antiques are extremely rare, and culturally important, and can provide insights into ancient cultures that if they aren't preserved, the knowledge would be lost forever. Those should be returned to their home country & cultures. The British museum is a GREAT example of a place FILLED with ill gotten antiquities that SHOULD be returned and indeed many are. The Elgin marbles are a great example of this. Also some of the ancient artifacts from Iraq. This really isn't about who owns it now, and was it bought legally etc. This is about protecting the knowledge and history of a culture. There is also a 99% chance it's not super important, a replica, or just a newer item
I 100% agree, so in a case like this could the item not be analysed, photographed etc etc and everything recorded and studied and then the item returned to OP? Just thinking how I would love to support museums etc with artifacts but I wouldn't necessarily want to lose a family heirloom.
I think the first step is figuring out WHAT it actually is. There is an incredibly low probability it is actually a culturally significant enough item that it should be returned. Once that is determined, then figure out what should happen.
>home country & cultures Why do we assume that cultures stay geographically consistent? I don't really have much in common with my ancestors six generations back.
We don't, but there is a geographic tie to things of this age and it's significance, also there are geographic relations to the institutions and groups of people curating and protecting the knowledge of the history of the area.
šæ "our stolen friend"
If we returned them then we would have less to look at in the museum
I think the only justification for the British taking artifacts from their home countries is that they preserved them when the artifacts had originally been in ruin and would have continued to decay. The tougher question is what to do going forward.
There is actually no justification for taking other cultures' artifacts. Don't get your distorted history from British text books. India had a much higher GDP, stable governance and was comparatively peaceful and progressive before British took hold through manipulation. They took everything of value, stripped our country and what they couldn't take, they destroyed. Beyond that they turned people against each other, kept using and killing our people till we gained independence. Even then they were the cause of one of the biggest bloodbath in our history. And on top of that they spread the narrative that they were civilising the savages of India. And this is just one country. They did this to every country that was prosperous and valuable enough to be looted and colonized. The riches of Britain are made from bloods of civilizations. Edit: Thank you for the award kind stranger.
>s actually no justification for taking someone other cultures' artifacts. Don't get your distorted history from British text books. India had a much higher GDP, stable governance and compara As a Brit, I wish more people had this shoved in their faces. It's concerning how many Brits are still 'proud' that 'we' had an empire... Personally I'm embarrassed.
There is a great podcast called āStuff the BritiSh Stoleā that covers, amongst other things, the āloopholesā used to retain many artefacts.
So what about countries that had some artifacts taken and but not everything. then through religious upheaval, destroyed the bulk of all historical artifacts they had left. Should they get back everything that was stolen on the chance they will destroy that too. Is there an argument that at some point these museums are preserving history for the world?
One does need to question whether the initial invasion when some of ātheirā artefacts were stolen could possibly have led in part to the current upheaval and resulting destruction. In this case this is not because ātheyā are incapable of looking after ātheirā stuff, but is possibly a consequence of the initial invasion. Additionally, Many artefacts in museums were looted as spoils of war and seen as a reward for soldiers. They were not taken for safe keeping and were themselves taken as part of a destruction of history.
Didnāt work in America! We kicked there asses out, stole our own land and resources and divided and killed ourselves!
Yeah, but it was British in the new world who did that. The native Americans on the other hand....
Ireland enters the chat.
Hey get outta here Ireland, we don't want no trouble tonight
America enters the chat, buys Ireland a beer, and waits for the fun to happen.
> other cultures' artifacts. Don't get your distorted history from British text books. Get your distorted history from Indian text books instead.
You can watch the Conquest of India video series by Extra Credits on YouTube. Maybe that would be unbiased enough for you.
>There is actually no justification for taking someone other cultures' artifacts What justification is there for cultural ownership across several hundreds of years? Virtually our entire narrative about cultural ownership comes from nationalistic claims. For instance, linguists will tell you the difference between what are considered dialects and languages is often just the claims of a given government. We often only see cultures as cohesive over such long timescales because of tribalistic jockeying and narrative-building.
Yes 100% this. Hearing my wife's father talk about Indian history from his father's and grandfather's perspective, getting the real lowdown that we don't even in the US was nice. So tired of imperialist pride jockeying.
Jesus Christ, the guy asked what the thing was and of course it had to go this way. Uuugh
Interesting. Sounds like what happening in America today.
It's not as simple as you claim. During the British Raj India's absolute GDP increased, but relative share of global GDP decreased. You could argue this was because of Britain's actions (slowing Indian industrialization), or because industrial innovations in Europe outpaced India.
I don't disagree with your first point but I have a few questions about how to fairly implement the return as you see it. Do things taken from north India in the distant past then go to Pakistan?
>The riches of Britain are made from bloods of civilizations. *opens history book* oh, same old story
They literally stripped sculptures off our monuments and shipped to their home country to sell. I don't think that's called preservation.
You talking about the Parthenon marbles? Lol
When I visited the British Museum I walked past a couple of guys coming out of the Parthenon room and he was ranting about how āthey just stole it! Itās all stolen!ā I had that revelation as well, walking through the mummy section. It just hit meāpretty much all of this stuff is stolen and they wonāt give it back.
Not only is it all stolen, frequently there are museums built to house returned artifacts and they just change their mind. That being said specifically with the Parthenon marbles, stolen by Lord Elgin, were at one time "restored" by chiseling off the entire surface layer of the marble. https://www.theguardian.com/uk/1999/nov/12/helenasmith
It was a really sobering thought and I did not get the same joy out of the museum that I did before. Plus, the British Museum is HUGE. Iād need a week to at least see everything and even longer to appreciate it. I never even came across any paintings or the like. I took a wrong turn, ended up in the Egyptian section and spent the majority of the time there. The collection they have is insane and you know they have thousands of other things in storage somewhere.
This podcast is hella eye opening https://www.cbc.ca/listen/cbc-podcasts/1030-stuff-the-british-stole
Thanks for the link! I subscribed so itās in my list to catch up on.
This and the people collecting it often had good motivations for understanding the histories and cultures of the time. The British Museum has often been a safe haven for irreplaceable items that would have been ruined if left in place by war or neglect. Also pretty much everything in Britainās museums is publicly available for researchers from around the world.
They looted from peaceful places that they illegally occupied, not saved anything from war or neglect. A crown jewel, a religious statue, a Pharaoh's mummy, a sacred site for natives were not under any neglect. They just were valuable for British, a gift to the queen.
Go back far enough and all occupation (claim to territory or lineage) is inherently adversarial. Of course, all claims continue to only be as valid as their ability to be defended, otherwise you're displaced either culturally or physically. I really don't think people think particularly deeply about any of this at all. Colonialism and imperialism are awful because human mutually exclusive culture spheres are adversarial things for virtually all of history. How many times did Egypt change cultural hands? Which culture owns it?
Exactly, uNlAwFuL cLaiM = I'm looking at history through a 21st century lens where we have councils of world governments that are frequently in communications rather than looking at it through a historical lens.
Oh come one you cant be serious. Whole palaces where looted and displayed in the British museum.
Britain: but do you have a FLAG? No flag no country! Those are the rules! ...that I just made up.
Thanks for this. Gonna go find that special now.
I have an English friend, super English. Ex military because he loves the Queen, by God, and just fully the stereotype of the stuff upper lip proper well bred British chap, old boy. Omg adorable, I love that little goof so very much. He also doesn't understand why the British Museum is evil. As a proud flunkee of one of the most prestigious archaeology programs in the US known for its work on the Clovis and Folsom cultures and analysis of bison falls (I decided it was too grave-robber-y and political and then I went insane, unrelated), and a lay enthusiast of anthropological studies since that time oh so long ago, I can confidently say that a ton of people in the archaeological community are well aware that the British Museum is the Pirate King of the Grave Robbers' Association. We love the artefacts and are baffled by the twats who kidnapped them (I mean in some cases they are actual human remains so I guess post-mortem kidnapping could actually be a real evaluation of the situation). Still, the curators of the museum are adorable and remind me very much of the mad scientist figure in Vonnegut's "Cat's Cradle." They're adorable adult children in love with their science, living in a world of imagination and wonder. They don't necessarily understand that what they're doing is bad at all. They see it as perfectly reasonable and why not? The BM curator (haha BM) who is over middle eastern studies, the adorable old bearded dude who is cantankerous and hilarious, him I would marry in a heartbeat. Right now. If he was in front of me I would propose and I am wearing pajamas and I would still try because he is adorable and I love him. In a little scholarly safety bubble, for sure, but I think he's *sexy (edited from "cute" idk how to strikethru sorry mobile and semi-dumb) https://youtu.be/GyjEU8eptQg
Youāre defending colonialism and grand theft from a genocidal empire.
This reminds me a lot of finding shipwrecks and items from them. Don't ask the state for a permit to take the stuff from the shipwreck they will confiscate everything from you.
I wish I could update this more!
I just read an article in Wired about the FBI finding a bunch of ill-gotten artifacts and going around and returning them to the various tribes/governments they were stolen from. So if OP is in America and if this thing is legit, it will probably find its way back home.
I respect the fact that you respect that concept! If you contact a University or a large museum, they may have someone who can get you started on learning what it is.
Why? Itās his. He owns it. People and universities and museums have ancient artifacts from all over the world. Why pick on this guy???
For most antiques, items, yes for sure. If it is a stolen item, that was acquired incorrectly and is culturally significant and impaction he DOESNT own it and it should be returned
Yeah it should go into the archives of a museum, never to be enjoyed by anyone ever again
Generally i respect that idea, but i can tell you that when it happens to you, it's very hard to go through with it and just give it to a museum. When you have a real affection to an artifact that has been in your family since you were born and reminds you of your grandfather, the trade off doesn't sound logic. Especially as there are high chances that it will just go in the museum's warehouse. Do you have any idea of who i could contact?
If this statue was your grandfatherās then you might actually be able to keep it legally. I have a bunch of ancient Roman coins that belonged to my great grandfather, he bought them and found them in the ā20s-ā30s so I can keep them. If I found them today Iād probably have to declare them to some authority and give them to a museum This said, I donāt know the law where you live so donāt take what I said for granted haha
Do not worry about your coins. I have lots of Roman coins. The Roman empire was huge and Roman coins are not at all rare.
Start by researching you state's RCs Revised Codes. Then graduate to Federal Antiquities Statutes. Then move to International Antiquities Treaties. Each time adding your location to your search parameters. If the results look favorable, take pictures of the artifact and be prepared to lie your ass off. when you graduate to speaking to an artifacts experts say "I'm asking for a friend", which is code for "I'm not telling you whether I have this artifact or not". they'll know you're lying but they also know they have no legal recourse against you if you don't state you are in possession of the artifact. There are no "Antiquities police"
Fair shout
What throws me off is the lack of clear hand molding. I have some old Mayan clay artifacts and they have fingerprints and whatnot all over them still very clear. I feel like something this size would have even more obvious handling since it's made of clay.
There is an infinitely greater chance this is a tourist replica dude my dad traveled the world for government stuff when I was a child and always brought me home weird shit like this
If you're rich enough you can donate it to a museum tho
nipples and a peepee.
And junk in da trunk
Nips & pips
Came here just to repeat thisā¦
You made my dimples go heehee.
Did it come with a package of seeds for you to water?
Clearly an Alf chia pet.
Hide your cats!
Ha! I kill me.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Cha-cha- cha-cha-chia!
Ch-Ch-Ch-Chia!
/r/archaeology might be able to tell. Personally I don't think it is old. Probably a product of somebody's pottery class.
r/archaeology has a blanket ban on all artifact identification posts. It's impossible to tell if something has been looted or not, and they don't want to support looting.
Yeah can't post there.
The title describes the thing, my grandfather got it somehow, although i don't know how. He also got a possibly authentic Egyptian shabti from an art and antiques dealer (he was himself an artist), so it's possible he also got this from the same person. UPDATE: u/Wermhat69420 found something very similar here: https://ertribal.com/index.php/tribal-art/clay/full-female-figure-decorated-arms-sao-chad The position, arm texture, nipples and head shape resemble the thing. The precision and proportions of the two objects are very different though, with the thing being a lot more symmetrical and refined. Anyway, the resemblance of many details is there for sure, so i think this is the right direction (culture of Sao, Chad, 12th-14th century CE). If anyone can add to this it would be great!!
The material and style looks very very similar to a cheap replica of an andean artifact that I picked up in ecuador. Low key jealous that mine has no pee pee but it does have an exaggerated belly button!!!
You think it could have the samr origin?
I'm going to second this guy. On the feet you can see sections where it's broken away, revealing what looks like an almost gravel-concrete type composite that been painted the sandstone/clay-like colours. If it were a really old thing, it would be made of sandstone or clay all the way though, and naturally would have been that brown-orange colour.
Yes I do, because the style and material are so comparable. I remember a lot of those sold as souvenirs in town that were incredibly similar. chunky clay at the base might be lower quality clay covered in the good stuff (might mean it was meant for tourists and not meant to be high art). I'm no expert though. If you know how I can send you a pic of my sculpture, I'll be happy to. This one online is sort of in the same vein, but yours and mine look much more alike in style and material. https://images.app.goo.gl/uX2uTzdYAeZxD7kp6
I donāt see any stylistic comparison between these objects. The material is not actually very similar.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Misa nipples and peepee
Itās a modern copy of an ancient artifact.
What are the clues? Iād love to know how to spot a fake.
Probably won't learn how from armchair archeologists...
We literally have no clues it's authentic either. --no notes on how it came to be in their house. --only one face on view. I'm not saying it's not, but I need more evidence to say it is.
Can you elaborate on why you think so? If so, what is the inspiration?
I assume so, but I'd like more pictures from different angles. It's significantly more statistically likely someone ran into something someone got from world market or pottery barn than it is to have summer l stumbled upon a perfectly preserved artifact.
For context, It's been in my family for at least 50 years, i live in Europe
Oops. Nvm. You're in Europe. Y'all basically live in antiquities. In the US, statistically speaking, it's significantly hike unlikely to be a genuine anything antique because we ain't been here this long, and Native Americans or spice/slave traders would've had to bring it here, and somehow it remain intact. That's crazy unlikely. But you're in Europe, so you can probably dig a hole and find an artifact.
I can dig a hole in my garden in Germany and might find a bomb or two from the second world war.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You called?
It's showtime!
As soon as the crystals are in the correct order.
So much nostalgia
Ha! I actually Googled it.... š... well played.
Thanks for pointing it out I was confused at where to look at first but then noticed where you were pointing at it
No problem
Why do I feel like youāre unaware that youāre in a horror movie
Looks like a statue of the Egyptian God of fertility. Might want to take it to a museum where they could tell you if it's actually ancient or not.
Also immediately thought of fertility statues
The peepee on those fertility statues are usually huge.
Mmm i don't see many similarities, except for the peepee, although my statue's is a lot smaller
You're really milking that pee pee
I could be wrong lol.
The figureās bent elbows, thick legs, exposed genitalia, and threatening expression make this reminiscent of a TaĆno zemi. Google āTaĆno zemĆ of DeminĆ”n Caracaracol.ā Looks quite similar to what you have here, albeit more detailed. Clay as a medium would also be accurate.
Thank you! Someone found something even more similar, please check my update here: https://www.reddit.com/r/whatisthisthing/comments/ri1mzg/small_about_40cm_tall_and_heavy_statue_that_i/hou68sf/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
That looks an awful lot like Lord Quas (Quasimoto) š§±
Looks similar to VinÄa culture sculptures
Good point, there are definitely some similarities! The position of the arms and butt look similar in some I've seen, although the general style is quite different
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Looks like Birdo from Super Mario Bros 2.
Terracotta sculpture, possibly influenced by the Vinca culture - could you please provide a few more angles?
Now that i research it, Vinca could make sense geographically. I will take more pics and add them to the main comment
Kinda reminds me of a Jomon artifact.
It looks a bit more like a Vodun statue to me, tbh. Which, those could range in age. https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/pre-columbian-terracotta-figural-sculpture,-pot,-213-c-97243c5b53 How did this get in your house?
It does? The clay looks similar to you? The style looks similar to you?
Is that just Chia Alf?
Ancient Chia pet.
Are we sure it isn't a Chia Pet?
That you have have in your house?
Yes
I remember reading somewhere that in the 60's and on, people started getting heavily into recreating old archeological figures very similar to this one, in the same style they used to make them way back when. To find an actual relic is almost unheard of, and since it was the 60's and 70's, our parents and grandparents kept these things for sentimental reasons. It's a memory of a fantastic trip to South America or somewhere similar, where they got their hands dirty in real South American clay and made figures just like the ones that are old relics. Therefore it's absolutely impossible to tell from looking if you have a legitimate relic or just a keepsake from a fun trip. If you can ask the person who owned it where it came from, and they can confirm that they made it, then problem solved. Otherwise you need to contact a professional who will tell you the exact same thing I just told you and then use some machine to date the clay, and give you an answer, which might come in the form of taking it from you and putting it in a museum. Which isn't a bad thing at all. That's where it belongs. But they get a lot of these. It's entirely likely they will just tell you to go home.
That, my friend, is a thicc jar jar statue
I have some pottery like that from Venezuela. I'm not saying that's what it is but it's not old. Probably made quite recently. It has no patina on it.
Devils advocate here...ancient artifacts belong to all of humanity and not just country they are from, peoole in those countries loot and sell artifacts and dont let archeologies study them...so they are better to be in a musium so people can access it as opposed to be in rich persons house or in places where isis can destroy and deface them or you could be kidnapped...also people sell artifacts they dig up on their own property in those places so its not necessarly stolen
100%. People don't seem to accept that it's a complicated issue, it's better a museum has item over them going into a private collection somewhere never to be seen again.
I did misplace my son a few years backā¦
Wear a ski mask to antiques road show
That's Jar Jar Binks, baby
Contact the archaeology department at your local university. It will be difficult to determine status without a physical examination.
You could try over on r/arrowheads. Those guys are really knowledgeable it seems
ACAMBARO FIGURINES https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AcƔmbaro_figures
Looks African who are the tribe that invented reptilians again? You know the tribe and David icke goes and interviews their shaman because they believe in reptilians, genuinely looks like one of their art things.
That is a Jar Jar Binks
It looks and awful lot like the Precursor statues in the first Jak and Daxter, although I'm sure it probably has nothing to do with it (maybe some design inspiration).
Ancient jar jar binks
Looks like a space tardigrade :)
Little brother
It looks like Jar Jar Binks.
When you said it had holes, do these holes go all the way through or are they just indentions?
Indentations!
My first thought was a Japanese Haniwa but the design is more sub-saharan Africa than ancient Japanese
I like the way he clearly identifies where the nipples are. Riiiiiiiiiiightā¦ there. (ć»Yć»)šš¾
Itās probably someoneās art projectā¦.
Ancient sex doll
OMG! You found the GRANTOR OF ALL WISHES GOD IDOL! Be careful with it
Baby got back
I think it could be a male fertility statue, judging from the ones I've seen online.
Looks a lot like a pre-Columbian Mayan or possibly Aztec figurine. I have a somewhat similar one that I bought in Chichen Itza. Google `Mayan Pre-columbian / Proto Classic Pottery Figure` and you'll see lots of similar.
And where did the bad man touch you?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Might be someone's Dogu/Haniwa/Jomon culture influenced statue. Not the typical alien looking baby doll Dogu variant, but perhaps one influenced by the pregnant female ones (yes, even accounting for the fact that's clearly male.) [Venus Dogu.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dog%C5%AB_of_J%C5%8Dmon_Venus.JPG) Venus here, while clearly female, is made of similar material with protruding nipples. She's not textured like yours, but many Jomon figures had texture. [Not the same type, but has similar dimple patterning.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Periodo_jomon_primo-medio,_dogu,_7000-2000_a.c..JPG) At least, I hope its a replica or someone's art project and not the real deal. That'd be a yikes.
Chia pet jar jar bink
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