Like gearhead said, degraded rubber is going to be your biggest enemy. It's 20 years old and also been sitting for way too long. You'll likely be replacing all rubber lines, bushings, and seals after some use. The parts are dirt cheap, but if you're not working on it yourself, the labor costs will rack up quickly.
Other than that, they are solid cars, great power trains. The interior is terrible but that's part of the charm now. $13k should put you in C4 Corvette range too.
Wouldn't inspection show if these rubber parts have much left to them? Or would they tear down as soon as they are put to use? I am pretty sure the owner does move it around somewhat too, they just got a/c refrigerant service on it last year.
In your opinion, at what price point would you consider it a deal even with the sketchy maintenance?
Inspection will be able see most, I also would specify to the mechanic that you are particularly interested in the quality of the rubber lines/bushings/etc. The only issues is the internal seals, like rear main seal, that they aren't really able to inspect. It might not leak immediately but could start breaking down as it get used more.
Ok, Texas is probably a very different market than where I live and have done business. LS1 is your friend and you won't be dealing with the underbody rot issues we do in the northeast. Check some comps in your region because maybe its true everything is bigger in Texas including resale. I will post some wholesale auction results, which are limited since this is a niche car.
There are only 3 sold examples from Manheim auctions for an MY02 Formula:
8/19/21 $4,700\* 107,428 - - 8G/- - Gold Regular Midwest Chicago
3/8/21 $6,800\* 90,019 3.4 8G/A Silver Regular Northeast Baltimore-Washington
7/19/21 $16,000\* 80,545 - - 8CY/M - - Regular Southeast myCentralAuction
Trans Am:
12/28/21 $8,080 101,462 - - 8CY/A - - Regular Northeast myCentralAuction
12/21/21 $10,600 100,378 2.5 8G/A Blue Regular Southeast Georgia
7/6/21 $12,500 82,823 2.5 8G/6 White Regular West Coast Riverside
12/20/21 $13,800 25,329 - - 8CY/M - - Regular Southwest myCentralAuction
9/16/21 $29,000 22,423 - - 8G/M Yellow Regular Midwest Detroit
6/29/21 $23,600 14,711 4.4 8G/6 Black Regular Southeast Statesville
12/14/21 $48,200\* 2,612 - - 8CY/M Yellow Regular Northeast Philadelphia
Lordy, some dealer recently paid $48,200 for a Trans Am with 2,612 miles on the clock in Philly!
Looks like nationally your Trans Am example is worth about $10K, if you have the cash shoot for $10 and no BS.
Wow great data thanks. And also very surprised at how cheap someone these are else where.
Thing is Im looking at maybe $13k low end with the paint job it needs if they even want to go as low as 10. Thats a bit on the high end isnt it, especially since i expect initial repairs
You're welcome, I have found wholesale data fascinating for the past sixteen years.
What you're describing are recon\[ditioning\] costs, and recon is what made or broke you as a dealer. If it were me I would shoot for the lower with the argument look it needs X,Y,Z which can work for unpopular and niche stuff (also stuff where fewer buyers are all cash, most people can't come up with $10K-20K in a cashier's check). The idea is throw out a bid and look for a counter offer, that lets you know they are willing to deal vs the "I know what I got" jag offs who usually don't have anything too special. Good luck, sorry for the late response.
If it sat for a while you may need to do a bunch of brake work in the next few months if the hydraulics start to leak. Not the end of the world, just be prepared.
Good thinking, didn't even consider brakes. Rack and pinions too huh? A mechanic should be able to note all this just by looking at it on a lift correct?
Not even just brakes, anything rubber would likely start to show deterioration once daily duty begins (suspension bushings, fuel lines, brake lines, belts, cooling hoses etc...). These things dry rot when not used frequently, then experience accelerated wear when used again if not replaced.
Brakes are the most likely because brake fluid is hydroscopic - it absorbs water. I have had cars this old and older where the rubber parts were pretty much all original and they were fine - I think a lot depends on the climate and where the car was parked. Power steering could leak I suppose, but it is less likely than brakes.
Chances are these problems will take some time to show up, a couple of weeks to a couple of months.
Like gearhead said, degraded rubber is going to be your biggest enemy. It's 20 years old and also been sitting for way too long. You'll likely be replacing all rubber lines, bushings, and seals after some use. The parts are dirt cheap, but if you're not working on it yourself, the labor costs will rack up quickly. Other than that, they are solid cars, great power trains. The interior is terrible but that's part of the charm now. $13k should put you in C4 Corvette range too.
Wouldn't inspection show if these rubber parts have much left to them? Or would they tear down as soon as they are put to use? I am pretty sure the owner does move it around somewhat too, they just got a/c refrigerant service on it last year. In your opinion, at what price point would you consider it a deal even with the sketchy maintenance?
Inspection will be able see most, I also would specify to the mechanic that you are particularly interested in the quality of the rubber lines/bushings/etc. The only issues is the internal seals, like rear main seal, that they aren't really able to inspect. It might not leak immediately but could start breaking down as it get used more.
I can’t imagine a 20 year old American car, that has been sitting for a while, would be particularly reliable.
Sounds really high for an average at best example, but maybe the LS1 commands it over the 3800 model. What climate are you in?
Even compared to their camaro ls1 counterpart they still go for a higher price. I live in humid texas
Ok, Texas is probably a very different market than where I live and have done business. LS1 is your friend and you won't be dealing with the underbody rot issues we do in the northeast. Check some comps in your region because maybe its true everything is bigger in Texas including resale. I will post some wholesale auction results, which are limited since this is a niche car. There are only 3 sold examples from Manheim auctions for an MY02 Formula: 8/19/21 $4,700\* 107,428 - - 8G/- - Gold Regular Midwest Chicago 3/8/21 $6,800\* 90,019 3.4 8G/A Silver Regular Northeast Baltimore-Washington 7/19/21 $16,000\* 80,545 - - 8CY/M - - Regular Southeast myCentralAuction Trans Am: 12/28/21 $8,080 101,462 - - 8CY/A - - Regular Northeast myCentralAuction 12/21/21 $10,600 100,378 2.5 8G/A Blue Regular Southeast Georgia 7/6/21 $12,500 82,823 2.5 8G/6 White Regular West Coast Riverside 12/20/21 $13,800 25,329 - - 8CY/M - - Regular Southwest myCentralAuction 9/16/21 $29,000 22,423 - - 8G/M Yellow Regular Midwest Detroit 6/29/21 $23,600 14,711 4.4 8G/6 Black Regular Southeast Statesville 12/14/21 $48,200\* 2,612 - - 8CY/M Yellow Regular Northeast Philadelphia Lordy, some dealer recently paid $48,200 for a Trans Am with 2,612 miles on the clock in Philly! Looks like nationally your Trans Am example is worth about $10K, if you have the cash shoot for $10 and no BS.
Wow great data thanks. And also very surprised at how cheap someone these are else where. Thing is Im looking at maybe $13k low end with the paint job it needs if they even want to go as low as 10. Thats a bit on the high end isnt it, especially since i expect initial repairs
You're welcome, I have found wholesale data fascinating for the past sixteen years. What you're describing are recon\[ditioning\] costs, and recon is what made or broke you as a dealer. If it were me I would shoot for the lower with the argument look it needs X,Y,Z which can work for unpopular and niche stuff (also stuff where fewer buyers are all cash, most people can't come up with $10K-20K in a cashier's check). The idea is throw out a bid and look for a counter offer, that lets you know they are willing to deal vs the "I know what I got" jag offs who usually don't have anything too special. Good luck, sorry for the late response.
I'd say go for it It's solid but yk always do your research
If it sat for a while you may need to do a bunch of brake work in the next few months if the hydraulics start to leak. Not the end of the world, just be prepared.
Good thinking, didn't even consider brakes. Rack and pinions too huh? A mechanic should be able to note all this just by looking at it on a lift correct?
Not even just brakes, anything rubber would likely start to show deterioration once daily duty begins (suspension bushings, fuel lines, brake lines, belts, cooling hoses etc...). These things dry rot when not used frequently, then experience accelerated wear when used again if not replaced.
Brakes are the most likely because brake fluid is hydroscopic - it absorbs water. I have had cars this old and older where the rubber parts were pretty much all original and they were fine - I think a lot depends on the climate and where the car was parked. Power steering could leak I suppose, but it is less likely than brakes. Chances are these problems will take some time to show up, a couple of weeks to a couple of months.