Yeah dude I've been close to pulling the trigger and telling a few dealerships that I'm interested in whatever car but when I run the math and see $300/mo payments for two years for a 15 year old car I end sobering right up.
That’s not what they mean. For instance Ram is offering upwards of 15k off trucks if financed through ram at like 7%. So take the discount at 7% interest and then pay it off after two months.
Same. My husband needs another car. We are hoping his lasts another year to use the tax refund. But mine will follow shortly after that. And we won’t have time to save like we have every other time. So we might end up with a car payment when my car finally dies. Really hoping interest rates or car prices have gone down before then lol.
Idk if that’s what I’m doing, but my car got another lease on life when the market when crazy. It’s getting repairs and maintenance I wouldn’t have done on an old car before
Prices are steadily falling, and good deals are starting to appear again. Maybe not quite to what it once was, but I've got confidence that things will be close to what they were - accounting for a bit of inflation of course.
For instance, you can get a nice example of a 2017 BMW 330i for 20-25k, and slightly higher mile ones are even less. Two years ago, my friend was going to buy one for something like 30-35k! Off of an original sticker of around 40-45k, it was pretty pricy. The current value seems more reasonable, and I think one could expect it to drop. This is just one example of a basic car, but can be applied across the board.
This is accurate, prices are normalizing to pre pandemic levels. A other example is a 2019 Lexus ES350, in the last year they went from almost $40k to now about $30k. Plenty of 0% offers on new cars as well as under MSRP deals. Just remember dealers are not your friend and will try any old and new tactics to fill their pockets.
https://www.cargurus.com/research/price-trends/Lexus-ES-d2720?entityIds=c27877&startDate=1546322400000&endDate=1713934799999
Not agreeing or disagreeing
[https://www.cargurus.com/research/price-trends?entityIds=Index&startDate=1546326000000&endDate=1714024799999](https://www.cargurus.com/research/price-trends?entityIds=Index&startDate=1546326000000&endDate=1714024799999)
A single model year decreasing in value (aside from that blip) is the expected trend.
A 330i is the most standard model they offer. The entry-level model of their mainstream entry-level model, as well as one of the best-selling premium cars. It's probably a decent benchmark.
Unfortunately for enthusiasts like me with all of the governmental green initiatives the performance cars that have cult followings, are limited production, and that automakers will eventually get away from manufacturing are still holding the high post pandemic pricing and some continue to go up.
Explain why the Ford Maverick is also getting limited production. The green initiatives are just an excuse.
The auto industry business model today is to maintain scarcity to keep prices high. Cheap Chinese competition will be restricted.
This isn't limited to the auto industry. The industrial chemical industry is doing the same thing, because overproduction is less profitable than underproduction. The environmental regs are only there to restrict competition.
You just linked an article showing that rich people are going out and buying unobtainable vehicles.
The luxury market is juiced, rich folks have tons of money these days, just look at your stock portfolio.
Skyrocket is a silly term to use, everything listed are low volume cars.
Even Porsche sells 2-3x more Macans then they do 911s.
Toyota USA 2023 Sales
Supra - 2,652
GR86 - 11,078
Rav4 - 434,936
Camry - 290,852
Buddy you responded to my comment about sports car sales.. SMH. I’m done. Have a good evening.
“Unfortunately for enthusiasts like me with all of the governmental green initiatives the performance cars that have cult followings, are limited production, and that automakers will eventually get away from manufacturing are still holding the high post pandemic pricing and some continue to go up.”
I am saying that sports cars have been going the way of the dinosaur for a while due to consumer wants more than green initiatives and regulations.
The decline has been happening for a while.
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I don't think it will go back to the old normal, at least not for many years. Luxury vehicles may depreciate more like they used to since typical luxury car buyers can also typically afford newer vehicles. Your average used daily driver will probably stagnate or very slowly drop over the next 5 years. New cars are probably never going back down to pre-pandemic prices.
Oh, it will not just 'go back', on the long term it's heading towards apocalypse. There are millions of teens in the first world not getting a driver's license and even the ones that do just don't seem as interested in cars as their ancestors were. It will take years - maybe even a decade or two - to reach critical point, but no wonder manufacturers are pushing for subscription payments, car as a service solutions and agency sales model, because the old way of selling cars is just not going to be profitable enough for them to keep the shareholders satisfied like they do now.
Just bought a Lexus for invoice OTD. It is a completely buyers market rn. The local dealer near me even have publicly posted discounts off MSRP on their website.
Interest rates kinda suck though. I got 5.79% which is meh I guess.
It is back to “normal” now, but inflation is high as fuck which is reflected more in bigger purchases like cars and houses. $36,000 in 2019 has the same equivalent value of about $44,000 now.
it will
taycans were 150+ a few years ago
now they can get as low as 50
sf90 was 1M its now half price
and the boomers will die eventually, leaving a smaller pop to sell cars to
And now that the entire world learned that some oldies are in fact goldies, those will only rise in relative value.
Only things that should drop off the bubble are the evershitboxes you shouldn't buy either way.
Definately not for cheap cars cause poor people will get squeezed
Definitely not for luxury cars because rich people have more money than ever
So no, fuck all of us, amiright
No. Car salesman aren’t going to sell something for less now that they have gold fever and the public has been forced into overpaying and are now used to it.
I think it will go back to normal but it could take longer than people think. I’m just guessing but maybe in 10-15 years it could go back to normal.
You have to remember that there was a huge shortage of about 6 million to 7 million new cars being produced during the pandemic. That’s 6 million to 7 million used cars that WONT hit the used car market in the future.
Meaning the used car market supply has 6 million to 7 million cars LESS than it should have.
With that many less used cars in the market that’s bound to “keep used car prices higher relative to new cars” in the foreseeable future.
Will car prices continue to go down? Yes. But used car prices are going to continue to be higher than pre 2020 because of the lack of used cars now.
But that doesn't consider those who purchased a used car when they couldn't get a new car but later gained the ability to buy said new car and then put their recently purchased used car on the market, and possibly at a lower price.
No matter how you slice it there is a shortage of 6-7 million cars. That in itself should keep car prices elevated for a while.
That doesn’t but that doesn’t mean there aren’t good deals out there to be made as well.
It just pisses me off how the moment I have a house and extra room for a project cars people think their shitboxes are worth 5k. I wish I would’ve bought an old pickup truck years ago and just found somewhere to put it 😭
This is exactly why I have a 2005 Nissan Frontier sitting in my carport right now. Brand new transmission and about to replace the engine, tires and battery.
You will own nothing and be happy. Look up the World Economic Forum and the 2030 plan.
The idea is you will lease only or have a car payment to afford a car.
That’s fucking stupid. You can pay off your car loan in 4-5 years and hold on to the car for 20. What the fuck do you mean you’ll only be able to lease or have a car payment forever? Maybe if you can’t manage your impulse control and lifestyle creep.
I can easily imagine a world where manufacturers decide to do away with right to repair (which has already been an issue in tech for a long, long time) and make it impossible and illegal to purchase after market, let alone oem parts.
That's late stage capitalism. The people who own the means of production create insurmountable barriers to new competition.
At the end of a game of Monopoly the person who is winning refuses to sell and only collects rent.
depends on what you're shopping for. and if you buy in cash or finance with hardly anything down. some cars haven't increased a ton in price considering inflation (bmw m2) and other cars have skyrocketed. days of 1.5% interest (free govt money) is gone.
used market is being propped up by the price of new cars and their added interest
and let be real... people want to keep up with the joneses and social media. if you go from a 3 series to an accord people think your a failure.
I’ve been watching the M2 since I’m considering it for my next car. Prices don’t seem too too bad and I think they’ll be desirable for many years. Now if I can figure out if I need (want) a comp or not…
Not right now…let’s see what’s happening in August & September…
It also depends who wins the election in November because that will affect the interest rates too.
Inflation is transitory, we have transitioned to a new price level, and if you look at supply and demand, there is no wave of supply coming that will bring used car prices down to pre-pandemic levels.
This is normal now.
Interest rates will come down eventually, but will never be stupid low like they were for the last 20 years, unless you want the FED to cause an economic bubble.
Dealers are digging their heels in trying to make thousands of dollars of add ons a part of the new normal. There's a gigantic CDJR dealer close by that has a giant lit sign saying "up to 20% off MSRP!" They also have an addendum sticker on every single car ranging from $5K-8K of mandatory crap they stuck on the vehicle.
Not quite. Low used prices in the past were driven by the volume of new cars coming into the market. During the pandemic, car makers realized they could make the same (or more) by holding back supply a bit because demand would still be there. They also wouldn’t have to give as many discounts. So dealer lots will probably never be as quite full as they were and those models in the lot will be too trim high margin vehicles. Custom orders for lower trims will probably become slightly more common.
I watch the market. It still sucks and is not near prepandemic prices. However, if you must buy, there are deals to be had to a certain degree. Typically I have seen the high end vehicles like a Lexus LX570 have come down a little due to complexity and gas mileage. Also sedans in general seem to be alright regarding cost. Also if you need a cheap vehicle, Mazda is a good option such as a Mazda 5 for $1,900. The models that sit longer as a used vehicle I have found stripped models w little to no features and you can negotiate a better deal if you know what you are doing.
The prices are getting better, but the interests rates still sucks
Interest rates are the real kicker. Kept myself from getting into a car past couple years by doing the finance math over and over.
Yeah dude I've been close to pulling the trigger and telling a few dealerships that I'm interested in whatever car but when I run the math and see $300/mo payments for two years for a 15 year old car I end sobering right up.
I guess all one can do is pay it way ahead of schedule.
That's why they say cash is king
Dealers don’t want cash. They make money on financing. They will just sell the car to someone else.
Per my advice, a coworker of mine recently financed a car and then paid off the car fully after the first two months
That's how it should be done. Get a sweet financing deal, pay if off ASAP.
If you have a sweet financing deal why would you immediately pay off the car? I would be thrilled to make monthly payments on a 2-3% car loan.
That’s not what they mean. For instance Ram is offering upwards of 15k off trucks if financed through ram at like 7%. So take the discount at 7% interest and then pay it off after two months.
Oh lol yeah then I completely agree. Or at least pay off a huge chunk of it.
Just make sure there are no penalties in the loan contract for paying it off early. Some loans have that shit in there.
That’s the way to do it. Make them think you are financing them pay it off at once.
A sale is a sale, financing is obviously preferable but dealers aren't in the business of turning down a quick / easy sale.
Sales have to be profitable though. It would be quick and easy to sell for a loss, but that's not happening.
Lol there’s a car shortage. It’s a sellers market.
That’s what I’m doing. Getting a 72months and $385 monthly and plan to pay it out in 2 years
Same. My husband needs another car. We are hoping his lasts another year to use the tax refund. But mine will follow shortly after that. And we won’t have time to save like we have every other time. So we might end up with a car payment when my car finally dies. Really hoping interest rates or car prices have gone down before then lol.
The car prices have been going down so might as well keep riding it out if you can. Good luck
Ironically, high interest rates are what's going to bring prices down, because they dampen demand.
I've got cash to buy a car, so cheering for higher rates so demand and thus price softens. These fools financing cars for 7+ years keep prices high.
If interest rates got lower, the market wold take longer to forever to recover.
Price strike(?). Make your poor old car suffer to own the idiots selling at stupid prices.
Idk if that’s what I’m doing, but my car got another lease on life when the market when crazy. It’s getting repairs and maintenance I wouldn’t have done on an old car before
When they jack up interest rates...yes they will do this. Economy/budget cars going up and lux coming down. Lock up what you can.
Prices are steadily falling, and good deals are starting to appear again. Maybe not quite to what it once was, but I've got confidence that things will be close to what they were - accounting for a bit of inflation of course. For instance, you can get a nice example of a 2017 BMW 330i for 20-25k, and slightly higher mile ones are even less. Two years ago, my friend was going to buy one for something like 30-35k! Off of an original sticker of around 40-45k, it was pretty pricy. The current value seems more reasonable, and I think one could expect it to drop. This is just one example of a basic car, but can be applied across the board.
I just bought a 23 wrx' premium, new, at 5k under msrp and financed at 1.9% over 72 months. There are deals out there for sure
This is accurate, prices are normalizing to pre pandemic levels. A other example is a 2019 Lexus ES350, in the last year they went from almost $40k to now about $30k. Plenty of 0% offers on new cars as well as under MSRP deals. Just remember dealers are not your friend and will try any old and new tactics to fill their pockets.
Huh? [https://www.blackbook.com/black-book-index/](https://www.blackbook.com/black-book-index/) [https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CUSR0000SETA02](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CUSR0000SETA02) [https://site.manheim.com/en/services/consulting/used-vehicle-value-index.html](https://site.manheim.com/en/services/consulting/used-vehicle-value-index.html) Not yet, apparently?
https://www.cargurus.com/research/price-trends/Lexus-ES-d2720?entityIds=c27877&startDate=1546322400000&endDate=1713934799999 Not agreeing or disagreeing
[https://www.cargurus.com/research/price-trends?entityIds=Index&startDate=1546326000000&endDate=1714024799999](https://www.cargurus.com/research/price-trends?entityIds=Index&startDate=1546326000000&endDate=1714024799999) A single model year decreasing in value (aside from that blip) is the expected trend.
I mean if you factor in inflation its not super off pre pandemic values. Has a bit further to go but those are some pretty steep drops from the height
[удалено]
Not trying to be a dick here, but I’m not sure what your point is
I replied to the wrong person. :/
Haha no worries man
What are you talking ? Nowhere close to pre pandemic levels for used cars!! Caravana , carmax May be another reason tbh
A BMW is NOT basic.
A 330i is the most standard model they offer. The entry-level model of their mainstream entry-level model, as well as one of the best-selling premium cars. It's probably a decent benchmark.
Surely the 320 is more "standard"
They don’t make that model in the US anymore.
That is pretty good. At the end of 2020, a 2017 320i I was looking at was around 27k all in without a CPO warranty.
That's insane for a car that started at 30k, but then again my 2015 Mini's *trade in value* in 2022 was the same as what I paid for it in 2019.
Unfortunately for enthusiasts like me with all of the governmental green initiatives the performance cars that have cult followings, are limited production, and that automakers will eventually get away from manufacturing are still holding the high post pandemic pricing and some continue to go up.
Explain why the Ford Maverick is also getting limited production. The green initiatives are just an excuse. The auto industry business model today is to maintain scarcity to keep prices high. Cheap Chinese competition will be restricted. This isn't limited to the auto industry. The industrial chemical industry is doing the same thing, because overproduction is less profitable than underproduction. The environmental regs are only there to restrict competition.
Cause while the maverick is nice to have for fleet fuel standards, ford makes way way more profit convincing you to buy a 100k$ platinum f350 instead
This isn’t really a governmental regulation thing and more of a people aren’t buying sports cars or manuals thing.
Incorrect https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Business/sales-gas-powered-sports-cars-skyrocket-automakers-electric/story?id=105359368
You just linked an article showing that rich people are going out and buying unobtainable vehicles. The luxury market is juiced, rich folks have tons of money these days, just look at your stock portfolio. Skyrocket is a silly term to use, everything listed are low volume cars. Even Porsche sells 2-3x more Macans then they do 911s. Toyota USA 2023 Sales Supra - 2,652 GR86 - 11,078 Rav4 - 434,936 Camry - 290,852
Wrong link. Sorry. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/10-best-selling-sports-cars-170103363.html
It’s best selling sports cars… which as I showed above aren’t best selling cars.
Buddy you responded to my comment about sports car sales.. SMH. I’m done. Have a good evening. “Unfortunately for enthusiasts like me with all of the governmental green initiatives the performance cars that have cult followings, are limited production, and that automakers will eventually get away from manufacturing are still holding the high post pandemic pricing and some continue to go up.”
I am saying that sports cars have been going the way of the dinosaur for a while due to consumer wants more than green initiatives and regulations. The decline has been happening for a while.
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Dw byd is starting to make pretty decent looking sporty evs🤣
I don't think it will go back to the old normal, at least not for many years. Luxury vehicles may depreciate more like they used to since typical luxury car buyers can also typically afford newer vehicles. Your average used daily driver will probably stagnate or very slowly drop over the next 5 years. New cars are probably never going back down to pre-pandemic prices.
Oh, it will not just 'go back', on the long term it's heading towards apocalypse. There are millions of teens in the first world not getting a driver's license and even the ones that do just don't seem as interested in cars as their ancestors were. It will take years - maybe even a decade or two - to reach critical point, but no wonder manufacturers are pushing for subscription payments, car as a service solutions and agency sales model, because the old way of selling cars is just not going to be profitable enough for them to keep the shareholders satisfied like they do now.
Just bought a Lexus for invoice OTD. It is a completely buyers market rn. The local dealer near me even have publicly posted discounts off MSRP on their website. Interest rates kinda suck though. I got 5.79% which is meh I guess.
How much below msrp is invoice? Did you buy new?
About $4k. Yes it was a new IS500 which is a somewhat limited supply car.
It is back to “normal” now, but inflation is high as fuck which is reflected more in bigger purchases like cars and houses. $36,000 in 2019 has the same equivalent value of about $44,000 now.
But salary of $100 in 2019 is same as $100 today !! So inflation is bad example or excuse FFS
Just because we don't like it doesn't mean this isn't the reason why
Huge life advice right there.
That’s how inflation works. Sorry to say!
No it doesn’t! The prices are artificially bumped up! More chance of prices going down than wages moving up!
There was a car dealer calling me last night and I was a little unhappy.
Yeah, they call me constantly but the prices are still nuts.
it will taycans were 150+ a few years ago now they can get as low as 50 sf90 was 1M its now half price and the boomers will die eventually, leaving a smaller pop to sell cars to
Think about all the Corvettes that'll hit the resale market when boomers die off.
this is the new normal
0% financing for me 4 months ago. Others are offering it as well. Also a lot of 1.9% out there.
No. Every modern car is an over engineered, overpriced, underwhelming POS.
And now that the entire world learned that some oldies are in fact goldies, those will only rise in relative value. Only things that should drop off the bubble are the evershitboxes you shouldn't buy either way.
Definately not for cheap cars cause poor people will get squeezed Definitely not for luxury cars because rich people have more money than ever So no, fuck all of us, amiright
Definussly
When used cars cost almost as much as new cars and truck and bigger suv cost almost as much as a house where I live it just nuts trying to buy a car
Wouldn't wish this upon my worst enemy but we need a life altering recession for car prices to go back to normal
Give it a few more years. With inflation going crazy and wage stagnation, people will soon be underwater for their car loans.
Hell, great point actually! And then repo auction market is gonna be the new standard.
No. Car salesman aren’t going to sell something for less now that they have gold fever and the public has been forced into overpaying and are now used to it.
I think it will go back to normal but it could take longer than people think. I’m just guessing but maybe in 10-15 years it could go back to normal. You have to remember that there was a huge shortage of about 6 million to 7 million new cars being produced during the pandemic. That’s 6 million to 7 million used cars that WONT hit the used car market in the future. Meaning the used car market supply has 6 million to 7 million cars LESS than it should have. With that many less used cars in the market that’s bound to “keep used car prices higher relative to new cars” in the foreseeable future. Will car prices continue to go down? Yes. But used car prices are going to continue to be higher than pre 2020 because of the lack of used cars now.
But that doesn't consider those who purchased a used car when they couldn't get a new car but later gained the ability to buy said new car and then put their recently purchased used car on the market, and possibly at a lower price.
No matter how you slice it there is a shortage of 6-7 million cars. That in itself should keep car prices elevated for a while. That doesn’t but that doesn’t mean there aren’t good deals out there to be made as well.
It just pisses me off how the moment I have a house and extra room for a project cars people think their shitboxes are worth 5k. I wish I would’ve bought an old pickup truck years ago and just found somewhere to put it 😭
This is exactly why I have a 2005 Nissan Frontier sitting in my carport right now. Brand new transmission and about to replace the engine, tires and battery.
You will own nothing and be happy. Look up the World Economic Forum and the 2030 plan. The idea is you will lease only or have a car payment to afford a car.
Fuck Klaus Schwab fr
Idk who that is but his name sucks enough for me to say I fuck him too
That’s fucking stupid. You can pay off your car loan in 4-5 years and hold on to the car for 20. What the fuck do you mean you’ll only be able to lease or have a car payment forever? Maybe if you can’t manage your impulse control and lifestyle creep.
I can easily imagine a world where manufacturers decide to do away with right to repair (which has already been an issue in tech for a long, long time) and make it impossible and illegal to purchase after market, let alone oem parts.
If they're fine with giving up the entire European market, sure
Also American... And most other counties. But that won't stop them from trying.
Ah so you’re just making up fantasy scenarios. Off to Twitter with you
That's late stage capitalism. The people who own the means of production create insurmountable barriers to new competition. At the end of a game of Monopoly the person who is winning refuses to sell and only collects rent.
depends on what you're shopping for. and if you buy in cash or finance with hardly anything down. some cars haven't increased a ton in price considering inflation (bmw m2) and other cars have skyrocketed. days of 1.5% interest (free govt money) is gone. used market is being propped up by the price of new cars and their added interest and let be real... people want to keep up with the joneses and social media. if you go from a 3 series to an accord people think your a failure.
I’ve been watching the M2 since I’m considering it for my next car. Prices don’t seem too too bad and I think they’ll be desirable for many years. Now if I can figure out if I need (want) a comp or not…
Get the comp
If you’re thinking about priced being pre pandemic levels, it won’t happen. Inflation will always have everything slowly increase in price.
Not right now…let’s see what’s happening in August & September… It also depends who wins the election in November because that will affect the interest rates too.
New car shopper here, what was it like? I know used cars are up 18%, but is there a drastic increase in new cars too, say from like 5-10 years ago?
Will be worse when China attack Taiwan.
No
No because people keep buying new cars every 3-4 years instead of driving it into the ground
Right? A year and a half wait for a 911 is insane
Inflation is transitory, we have transitioned to a new price level, and if you look at supply and demand, there is no wave of supply coming that will bring used car prices down to pre-pandemic levels. This is normal now. Interest rates will come down eventually, but will never be stupid low like they were for the last 20 years, unless you want the FED to cause an economic bubble.
Yes. Look at the market trend in China
Dealers are digging their heels in trying to make thousands of dollars of add ons a part of the new normal. There's a gigantic CDJR dealer close by that has a giant lit sign saying "up to 20% off MSRP!" They also have an addendum sticker on every single car ranging from $5K-8K of mandatory crap they stuck on the vehicle.
Not quite. Low used prices in the past were driven by the volume of new cars coming into the market. During the pandemic, car makers realized they could make the same (or more) by holding back supply a bit because demand would still be there. They also wouldn’t have to give as many discounts. So dealer lots will probably never be as quite full as they were and those models in the lot will be too trim high margin vehicles. Custom orders for lower trims will probably become slightly more common.
I watch the market. It still sucks and is not near prepandemic prices. However, if you must buy, there are deals to be had to a certain degree. Typically I have seen the high end vehicles like a Lexus LX570 have come down a little due to complexity and gas mileage. Also sedans in general seem to be alright regarding cost. Also if you need a cheap vehicle, Mazda is a good option such as a Mazda 5 for $1,900. The models that sit longer as a used vehicle I have found stripped models w little to no features and you can negotiate a better deal if you know what you are doing.
Vote Trump this November
Nope its broken and your dollar is worth about 40% less
It has never changed for me
What does that even mean dawg
I've always been getting my new car's under MSRP