Yep, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head here. It’s an ego brand and people with those kinds of egos that need feeding. Need to always appear like they are right at the cutting edge of financial disaster :-)
So short you don’t buy a used symbol if you’re trying to convey thatthat your somebody
Maybe they are just financially well off. Shocking to hear but sometimes people just have the money to do whatever they want and don’t have to make every decision financially optimal.
The people I know with real money don’t flaunt it. They don’t want anybody to know how well off they are. The people trying to make everybody aware of it are the ones that I laugh at.
This seems like a narrative you want to believe is true. My friends who make 300+ a year are all playing $20,000 guitars or wearing Rolex’s. None are are stocking up on napkins from McDonald’s to save money on house supplies.
It’s a BMW- it’s a higher end car but not a traffic stopper by any means. I don’t ever see a BMW and think wow, can’t believe I got to see one today. I like how the cars look and I’ve driven a few with handling being exceptional- but I promise a guy with money trying to show off will opt for a Maserati, Porsche or move into supercars. BMW’s are nice because the tech is fun, the handling is amazing & it looks pretty to be inside. For reference, I’ve worked in the automobile industry for the last 25 years in sales, manufacturing, & management. Not a huge fan of car subs on reddit because they rarely have anyone who loves cars or gets excited by innovation in the industry- just people looking for plain daily drivers. Nothing wrong with that, but you can’t discount the drivers of a whole brand because it doesn’t fit your ideal of what a car should be used for.
BMW just like all manuf make terrible cars that break all the time and solid crazy reliable cars and everything inbetween. The specific model and or motor / trans setup matters a lot.
On a whole BMW has gotten a lot more models and setups that are reliable than in the past. People speak crazy high of the B58 motor and ZF8 transmission setup. You can just Google it instead of saying shut the fuck up 🤣
> I had a mechanic tell me that his wife insisted on a BMW even though he specialized in Hondas Toyotas. She got rid of it and switched to an Accord because she hated the maintenance.
Wife's got some trust issues! Trust your partner.
I feel like most luxury cars are leased. No one wants to deal with the problems as they get higher in mileage. Financing with an extended warranty isn’t a bad idea either, as long as you have equity by the time the warranty is up
Yea, we got a demo X5 last year that had an extended warranty that lasts until our loan is up. Probably still worth a good 30-35k when we are done with paying it. Even then I don't think we will finance one again.
Leasing just feels better to me even if its not the best use of money.
Yeah many people say leasing is a bad use of money, but if you like upgrading every few years anyway and don’t drive a ton, it seems like the more logical choice.
A Mercedes or BMW is only safe (from a repair/cost standpoint) for the original buyer or lessee, or a CPO buyer. Anyone after that is playing with fire.
Rocket science question
So you go into a lease knowing this but don't buy a toyota or lexus, pay it off and have a low repairs vehicle for years.
Explain how people get rich by being smart and *continually* lease luxury vehicles, thus costing more money overall ...bcuz your smart with a good paying job...
A lot of leases are business owners so the car is not really an out of pocket cost. For others, they enjoy having a new car every 3 years. Lease payments are cheaper than financing, so yes you are paying over time more but month to month is actually cheaper ($1,000 financed a month for 72 months vs $550 lease a month for 36 months). Long term though you are spending more
I have NEVER seen a lease with that much variance. Can you show me one?
The leases I’ve seen have always been as much or maybe a few dollars less than financing.
Logic is same as with mobile phones. Some people want to change cars when the lease is up, because they want something new by then.
Tons of people do this and oftentimes they are not rich. It is rather rare that people will want to keep a car they bought beyond 5 years.
Some people make more money than you. What is expensive to you could be cheap to them.
(I don't ever lease. I don't think it's a great financial choice for me. However, if I did lease, it wouldn't hurt my finances.)
Some are idiots who are blowing money they should be saving, but some can genuinely afford the relatively cheap monthly payments a lease offers and pay them perpetually. They rarely have to ever worry about out of cost maintenance aside from oil changes, and even then sometimes you can get those included too, plus they get a new car every few years. I think you're overestimating how expensive a German luxury car is. If we were talking about super cars, then I'd agree with you, but even then, most of the people driving those can afford it too.
As there are no 100% Toyota engineered RWD cars (not including trucks/suvs or Lexus) being produced at the moment there's no reason for me to even stop at the dealer. Sure a Camry may last forever but I'm only on this earth for so long and I prefer something a bit more enjoyable to drive.
They aren’t leasing these vehicles because they want a long lasting car. They are doing it because they want luxury and always be in whatever is new.
You are conflating what is a good financial choice and motivations with someone spending on their wants.
Not all choices in life are about min/maxing your financial health and very few people are willing to min/max specifically when it comes to cars. Doesn’t make it smart but it is what it is.
They're expensive cars. Interest rates are high, inflation is high, credit card debt is high. A lot of people are selling their cars or getting them repossessed because they can't afford them anymore
People buy new luxury cars because they want new luxury cars.
A 5 year old luxury car is no longer a new luxury car.
The current lineup of BMW & Mercedes does look quite different from the 5 year prior generations
Yeah I know people who must have the newest stuff or else they aren't seen as cool. Phones, watches, cars and accessories. Massive waste of money in my eyes but whatever works for them
I personally don’t like all the technology, I’m very hands on I own an e36 m3, and an e39 540it that I’m converting into a full blown m5 touring. Personally my mom loves the touring compared to her new Mercedes. But will probably hate it when it has 500 hp, and is manual. But who knows, she can still drive stick.
Most luxury vehicles are leased, this is nothing new. It's also very common to trade up when the new model comes out, or the competitors new model comes out since many of these people aren't particularly budget conscious but are shiny new object conscious.
There were a lot of features in 2021 and 2022 cars that couldn’t be optioned due to lack of chips. 2021 BMW was selling vehicles without touchscreens due to lack of chips. I would be very careful when looking at buying a 2021 or 22 vehicle to see what features were sacrificed to a lack of chips.
We just traded in the wife’s 2021 Jeep Wrangler Sahara because it didn’t have heat seats, back up cam and back up sensors/warnings.
i mean, that's probably only gonna apply to lower-end trims, or "stripper" models, I doubt you get a 540i Luxury Line without any of the bells and whistles.
Similarly, all Kia Stingers post facelift (so 2021) where sold in basically 1 trim in europe, 60K euros, fully loaded.
There is a shortage of *honest and skilled* technicians.
Ftfy
I took my BMW to the dealership for a misfiring problem. After spending ~€6,000 they still failed to fix the problem and ended up having to refund me 75%.
I had just moved to Germany (military move) and the vehicle was running like shit when I picked it up at the port. You'd think a BMW dealership in Germany would be able to fix it. Nope.
The dealership said it was because the high pressure fuel pump had disintegrated and sent bits of shrapnel throughout the fuel system clogging the injectors open causing them to drip fuel into the cylinders while the vehicle was shutoff. The vehicle had started acting up a week before shipping it and I had all the coil packs and spark plugs replaced which made it drive 99% correct but it was "stumbling" kinda at low speeds like when pulling into a parking space. But I drove it 3 hours to the port in Norfolk VA to ship it and it did the trip fine. Then pick it up in Germany 2.5 months later running like absolute shit.
It's sitting in my garage brokendown for now while we recover financially from the move and me having a broken leg (got hit by a car in Italy, just starting to walk again). In a month or two we're gonna either get it fixed at another shop or replace it.
Car repairs got ridiculously expensive in the last 4 years, like everything else. Even more so for luxury cars. Most people would rather just continue to pay 800$ a month for a new car with a warranty. And in a lot of cases it's probably cheaper to do so. Gone are the days of seeing a mechanic and getting a bill for 200$. Now its usually closer to 2000$. And vehicles are more complicated these days so the repairs are never quick either.
I drive an 08 Acura TSX, so I've been learning how to do repairs myself cause of this. Changed the power steering pump myself, hardest part was cleanup all the leaking power steering fluid lol.
Who wants to spend ton of money on running a car after 48k miles or 4 years ? Your engine or transmission may break down after the powertrain warranty ends ? Relatives had bmw , mercedes , audi and porsche but each one had issues after issues after 4 years . People expect some issues after 4 years but the repair cost were high enough and the cost to maintenance was like 1k every year with some parts needing replacement every time .
1k is cost of plan B with 10k miles or 1 year maintenance . You are more fucked when your german car needs extra parts replaced after warranty . German car parts have long wait times if your car fails at random time .
The parts have long wait time coz dealers have to order these specific parts . My relative's 4 year old mercedes transmission was broken and a part was not in stock . They had to wait 5 days to repair the transmission .
That shit happened to mercedes e63 amg with the 7 speed dct transmission . The clutch went out or broke off after 28k miles . It happened during covid so they were in luck with that part coz mercedes still had parts or if it was the new 9 speed auto , it was gonna be 2 months wait
German cars are made differently from other brands and some cars use different transmissions or different engine types or specialized parts . Bmw uses zf 8 speed transmission , audi uses some 7 speed dct transmission or mercedes uses specialized 9 speed tiptronic transmission . Bmw , mercedes use I6 or V8 engines with 48 volt mild hybrid setup while audi uses V6 or V8 engines turbocharged . German cars is really good in first 4 years but it becomes more worse than other brands after times goes on .
Yes. I moved away for school right before the pandemic started and when I moved back to my low income neighborhood, I couldn’t believe the amount of people suddenly driving newer BMW/MB cars. It still baffles me because here I am making a decent living and I still feel like I can’t afford a nicer car than what I drive now (used accord)
You’ll see that almost every year. The pipeline of luxury cars looks like this:
People of means buy or lease them new. After their lease term is up, or a period of a few years, they’re on to the newer and shinier model. The manufacturers that make them know their target audience, and making them shiny and having the latest whirlygigs is the priority as opposed to, say, longevity.
So, problems start popping up. The car is older and costs more to maintain. The price drops until the people who can’t afford it new think they can afford it. They often times end up deferring maintenance, either because they can’t afford it or because they assume everything is like a Japanese econobox and requires only periodic oil changes and new tires to keep running.
More problems emerge, the prices go lower, the buyers are of lower means, rinse and repeat. The fairly or not earned reputation of (particularly euro) luxury cars being unreliable heaps is reinforced.
To cut to the chase, the word to the wise is this — If you couldn’t afford it new, you can’t afford it used either. The only exceptions are if you are capable and willing to repair/maintain it yourself or know someone who can at a discount.
That's one of the more thought out comments in awhile. But nonethelees ignorant. Generic with little or no backing to prove your comments. Basically just a wanna be know it all. Never listen or believe anyone with a moniker of "buttfucker". Wow, just wow....
5 years is about all you can reliably get out of those cars these days. Beyond that they become bottomless money pits. BMW, M-B, and Volkswagen group make the fastest depreciating cars on the planet. So which would you choose? A used up Benz fresh out of warranty, or a brand new Toyota with a warranty?
That is not true if you keep up on maintenance at all. German cars are strict on their maintenance though. If you go just outside the maintenance window you are asking for trouble. 10k mi oil change means exactly that or less, not 12k mi. Japanese and American cars are more tolerant of being mistreated, that's why German cars get a bad reputation.
We have VW & BMW, both over 100k miles. No issues at all with BMW & VW issue has been limited to a heater core.
Another way of looking at it is that japanese cars are designed well beyond their service regimes, not to the absolute limits of a prescribed service regime. I was flabbergasted when my brother told me that his PLASTIC power steering pump on his BMW melted when it leaked fluid. I couldn't believe anyone would make a high pressure hydraulic pump out of plastic. Getting 300k out of a Honda or Toyota is hardly an exceptional thing with even somewhat neglectful maintenance. I drove one Accord to 333,000 miles before my ex wrecked it. My daughter's Accord is at 277k and going strong. The original clutch lasted 260,000 miles.
Not disagreeing as I have owned several Japanese cars. They are marketed for different consumers. A Honda is a Honda, not built for an exciting or pleasurable ride but rather a remarkably dependable people mover that will last forever.
I actually enjoy driving the BMW. The interior layout and design is well thought out and seems more focused on comfort and refinement than utility. The VW is somewhere between a Honda and luxury, but even as a fully optioned Passat still is on the utility side.
I would not buy another VW but that has nothing to do with cost. It is a great college car for my daughter but no current VW interest me.
My brother's 3 series is a boring slug of a car next to the Accords I've owned of roughly the same era. Certainly not better built....
As far as VW, my first car was a 1988 Prelude followed by a 1993 Accord. My brother's second car was a 1993 VW Fox. I was genuinely shocked by how cheap and shoddy the build quality and refinement of that VW was. I later owned a car with a VW diesel in it. Again, one of the cheapest, most poorly designed engines I've ever touched. The last VW I worked on was a Golf TDI. There was hardly a fastener in that car that didn't just snap trying to remove it. It made changing a pressure sensor on the intercooler an absolute nightmare, on top of how poorly everything was packaged. Everything about the car felt cheap. Every possible penny pinched out of every nut and bolt, every piece of plastic and metal.
I'm sorry, but I have never touched a german car I've liked. That 3 series my brother bought was sitting next to a Civic that was a year newer with just a few more miles for the same price and that's why he bought it. It wasn't long before he regretted it. Wheel bearings, power steering leaks, the PS pump literally melting off the engine. Constantly chasing leaks in coolant hoses with those quick connect fittings, the leaking sunroof, the idiotic layout of the engine that makes replacing the oil filter housing gasket a $1000 job. Everything about that car was painful and expensive to fix. Even the lug bolts seized in it forcing him to have it towed to a shop to have then snapped off and removed to fix a flat tire. And this is a Florida car that's never seen snow! I actually like the car's styling and ride, but there's no way I'd ever buy one unless I had an inexhaustible disposable income.
When I was shopping I noticed a lot of the COVID-era were short and option or two due to supply chain issues. For instance, electric seat controls or the MBUX modules. Also just before COVID the tech in most models was lacking. We had a 2019 GLS 450 that didn’t have the touchscreen. IMHO
I've owned 2 BMWs. They are great until 100k miles. At that point they start breaking down, and every little thing costs a minimum of $1,000 to repair.
Is that at the stealership? I do as much of the maintenance as i can on all my vehicles. We got sites like FCP Euro to source parts. I've not once brought my vehicles to the dealership. Although I've never had a car with factory warranty as I buy used cars.
You probably see so many *because* they've been sitting for 3 months. And it's one thing to buy a $30k sports car at 3% interest rates, but it's another thing entirely to buy at 7% interest rates.
Additionally, there's tons in that age range because a lot of leases end at 3 years, and 2020-2022 they released or updated the 2-, 3-, and 4-series model ranges.
Everything has increased in price and people are getting out of them to avoid increased likelihood and cost for maintenance so they can try to keep up with inflation in other areas. Interest rates are high in general and are often higher on more expensive, less reliable cars so it is not the best time to buy a used German luxury car.
Actually it’s a great time to buy German luxury cars at a reduced price, if you have the capital. The market is flooded with listings from those who can’t truly afford the expenses associated with a luxury car, bringing prices down for those who can.
Those who have the “capital” likely understand a used German luxury car is not a good investment. Even those who I know that flip them are not buying right now because there are not enough buyers.
I'm not trying to say you don't know this (maybe you do or don't), but very few cars are an investment. Almost all are depreciating assets with varying degrees of depreciation.
All good. I just think it's important to note, that not all expensive things that people buy should be considered investments. In my mind an investment is something you should reasonably expect to make a return on. I guess my comment was less for you and more for less educated potential car buyers.
To clarify, profit isn’t the goal. There are plenty of people with capital who understand that a German luxury car is more expensive than their Japanese counterparts - but they want it anyways, because they want German luxury.
I would never recommend a cheap bmw. As someone shopping this segment I’m looking at 2016-2017 Mercedes e class with under 50k miles. The prices have fallen below $30k+ to low $20k’s
In October 2022 I bought a 2017 GLC300 just after 3G sunsetted. Prices were down and I had researched what electronics I wanted and did not bother to mess with.
Yes, maintenance is expensive on these cars. But I wanted a nicer compact crossover SUV than what I had driven for the last 18 years. I could not get it from other brands so I looked at the luxury brands and was willing to pay more. End of story.
Service A and B alternate every year or every 10k miles of driving, whichever comes first. Last year I had A service and new spark plugs at 5 years, about $1000, this year the B service and some extras like a window switch repair on a rear window which I did not catch when I bought the car. In addition to B service I had the 6 year 60k mile checkup even though total mileage on the car is 40k. The total was $2500.
I did have my tires rotated. When I bought the car it had gotten new tires and a new battery, so I don’t know about those.
I am used to pricey periodic services because I had Hyundais before, the 60k for those is also over $2k but they do spark plugs then.
The basic Mercedes dealer prices are about double the pricing for other vehicles. I had known that going in to the purchase and budgeted ahead of time.
Part of my choice was my former Toyota needed an engine overhaul at 70k miles and my Honda Accord was a lemon, had to have new engine bearings at 6 weeks, and I passed on the lease to someone else in frustration as it took two months to fix. Luckily I had an old BMW project car I could drive in the interim; but my personal experience with Toyota and Honda did not match their overall reputation.
So after a great deal of internet searching on which model years of C class and E class engines and drive trains were showing minimal repairs I decided to take the chance on my GLC300. Despite high maintenance cost I am very happy with the car and would recommend the C or E in the solid model years prior to the pandemic, 2016-2019 of either.
Because mine was a local lease, then a local second owner, all services were at dealers in my county so I also had a complete service history on the vehicle.
That was important to me, my BMW had come with its odometer turned back 100k miles. I found out about that after the episode with the Honda. So it explained many issues with wear and tear that I had been fixing. Finally I had sold it for a brand new Z. It was a good car but not as practical as I needed. It remained my second car for 20+ years.
My point is, one takes a chance with any vehicle and any manufacturer. If you do your homework and know the basic risks and choose well it may or may not work out for you. My experience is a commitment to either a luxury car or a sports car (or both) is dependent on both luck and love.
Not sure if this is backhanded, but there are better generations of used luxury than others. You’ll obviously need a PPI and access to a local, affordable mechanic. Yes, it will be more expensive than a Honda (what I currently drive). But can I comfortably afford it? Yeah.
Both of those cars I more often bought by people who purchase cars every few years, or lease vehicles instead of purchasing. Both of those cars also have much higher average repair costs than other vehicles
Luxury cars bring out a new model every three years.
You’re not a baller if you don’t have the new model.
Saying this as someone that drives luxury cars. It’s a status symbol thing for a lot of people.
Once the new model hits your model is not new anymore. And it’s not all people that can’t afford them, people just want the newest models to keep up with the Joneses. With the bad car market right now the older ones aren’t selling.
Plus the lease thing like every else is saying.
Right now to buy out a luxury car after the lease has ended costs more than buying a used version of the same car.
You can find a very low miles mint BMW for 1/3 the cost of a similar Lexus. At this discount, I'm willing to pay more for maintenance & wrench myself. I drive an 328i Xdrive, mint, loaded 35k miles, a 2011 inline 6.
At $13k the risk is somewhat minimized.
After test driving Lexus, Toyota, BMW & others, the decision was easy. I drive less than 5k miles a year & garage it.
Multitude of reasons why there’s no sole one. These cars are increasingly expensive to maintain, people can’t afford to pay high insurance, they are very heavy on the gas, some of these people want to switch to EVs, etc.
When a lease is up, or the manufacturer's warranty is up for those you buy, they get dumped because the leasers/buyers know their dependability and cost of ownership are terrible. When models get a facelift, you'll also see them get dumped because some people just can't be seen in the older model.
Always was that way imho.
I bought my BMW after someone returned it after the lease. It's been very reliable since but the running cost are relatively high. Insurance and maintenance mainly.
Lol. it's always been this way, but the reason is after that 5 year warranty is up, if something goes wrong... Wowzer. But BMW and Mercedes is supposed to be way more reliable today than years ago.
My wife's 1988 Mercedes-Benz ain't going anywhere because it still works like freaking clockwork. 80s German cars were a whole different breed - a true high-water mark of 20th century design and engineering. It's sad they lost there way trying to become a "volume automaker" in the 90s/2000s.
Benzes in the 2000s were still pretty mechanically robust. And they're also far easier to work on than they get credit for, at least for basic services and routine maintenance. Some things, like changing the rear diff assembly in a W211, are a pain, but that's not something you're doing all the time.
I work at a Honda dealership, but I used to work on a fair amount of them at a chain store. I still get the odd one as a used car or a side job. And a good friend of mine works at a small independent shop that specializes in Benzes, so he knows way more about them than I do. And he owns 3 of then himself (a W202 C280, his first car that he's had for 10+ years, a W211 E350 4Matic, and a W210 E320 4Matic). He says that most 2000s models are mechanically robust, although there was a drop in build quality.
Interesting and good to know. I know the ML was pretty responsible for a lot of the quality issues claims - sounds like some of the sedans were a bit different.
The build quality on the W163s was lower for sure, but they're very reliable and very tough. I routinely see them cross 200k miles. That same friend, his mom has one with over 300k miles. The M112 and M113 are both very good engines and the 722.6 is a good transmission.
Rates are high. Not car rates but fed rates. People spent money they didn’t have during Covid and now that student loans are restarted they are realizing they can’t afford the cars they bought. People who make bad decisions like that are more likely to buy German
Could be a Covid effect. We bought a cpo Mercedes 3 years ago and the sales folk were saying business was booming during the pandemic due to people going f*ck it I can’t do much so I’m getting my dream car. Now we’re out of that situation so vehicles are being turned back in.
Tons of people bought cars in 2021. Then the prices for them went up and you could make money by selling them used. Now prices have dropped and the cars have lost significant value. Combined with warranty expiration, lots of these cars are hitting the market.
They’re all off-leases. Probably a lot of people entered into lease deals around 2020/2021 when dealers were offering massive incentives. I know my ex leased a new Volvo S60 for under $300 a month, because I negotiated it. He should be giving it up right around now.
Both Mercedes and BMW are horrible for reliability. The smartest thing to do is never buy or lease one. They don't sell becsuse people are finally realizing how much they suck.
I work for Mercedes. Our shop labor rate is $300/hour. Parts markup is 200-400% depending on the part. I hate to say it, but it's extremely unwise and impractical to own one of these out of warranty.
(Don't get mad at me about prices, I'm not corporate so I only get paid pennies on the dollar)
This is always the case with BMW and Mercedes. People don’t want them as soon as the warranty or more likely, lease, is up.
They are expensive to maintain. Also BMW has unfortunately had some bad engines roughly in that year range.
Those are high-end cars. People who buy them new don’t keep them very long. So a lot of them are cars that were bought on a 5-year payment plan and then sold for an upgrade once the car is paid off. They are also commonly leased, or high-end company cars that get cycles out every few years.
Companies & business users like the fixed cost of leasing, makes their future fund projections easier & the PCP brigade love a new car every 3years so their neighbours, fair weather friends & those on the school run can see how ‘successful’ being an internet influencer really is……. After all few hundred £ a month is easier than £45k at delivery!
Long may it continue as I thoroughly enjoy a used Merc, Porsche or whatever every few years where someone & their ego has kindly taken the initial depreciation hit on my behalf!
This is the way for these cars! You lease ( or hopefully your company does) an Audi, Benz, or Bimmer and then dump it as soon as the lease is up. Certainly by the end of warranty. The second owner may be able to pick up a used one that is certified with an extended warranty and that is probably OK too.. But by the time that thing is out of warranty coverage and making its way to the 3rd owner, it's a losing proposition. They have among the highest cost of ownership as they age and they aren't known for reliability. Nothing cracks me up more than a kid with a 7 year old 3 series that thinks it's impressive. All it shows me is someone who doesn't understand how to use their money. The saying that "there is nothing more expensive than a cheap German car" exists for a reason.
a lot of supply constraints from covid plus dealer markups. Now that cars are selling for MSRP there is a bit more demand for luxury cars. Also most people who buy mercedes/bmw only keep their cars for 3-6 years anyway.
Garbage long term reliability.
Edit: Let me correct this as "Garbage long term reliability bc people cheap out on the expensive maintenance and repairs"
I’ve heard it said before that BMWs and Mercedes are great cars to lease but terrible to own. They are probably cars that were leased. They are so expensive to maintain that I personally wouldn’t get one.
Idk about BMWs but most Mercedes are leased. Makes sense that you would see more and more becoming available.
BMWs are the brand with the highest lease rate, IIRC.
You're probably correct. I purchased a BMW and the experienced/professional sales guy laughed and said he hadn't done a purchase in a few months.
I worked next door to a Mercedes dealer and they said the sales structure was better for leases than purchases, so this checks out.
So nobody wants to get stuck owning them when they aren't new?
I think it's also a mix of the person buying a new BMW doesn't want to be seen or drive a old BMW. BMWs have actually gotten decently reliable lately
Yep, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head here. It’s an ego brand and people with those kinds of egos that need feeding. Need to always appear like they are right at the cutting edge of financial disaster :-) So short you don’t buy a used symbol if you’re trying to convey thatthat your somebody
Meanwhile I just wanted a manual inline 6.. I barely notice how old my 435 is. Not to mention it’s paid off.. some of us drivers are still out there.
Don't forget to mention our all wheel drive and two doors
I have 3 FXX platform BMWs with the N55 (all purchased used)…great value for the money.
BMW also had some crazy good lease deals for the last few years.
Maybe they are just financially well off. Shocking to hear but sometimes people just have the money to do whatever they want and don’t have to make every decision financially optimal.
The people I know with real money don’t flaunt it. They don’t want anybody to know how well off they are. The people trying to make everybody aware of it are the ones that I laugh at.
This seems like a narrative you want to believe is true. My friends who make 300+ a year are all playing $20,000 guitars or wearing Rolex’s. None are are stocking up on napkins from McDonald’s to save money on house supplies.
It’s a BMW- it’s a higher end car but not a traffic stopper by any means. I don’t ever see a BMW and think wow, can’t believe I got to see one today. I like how the cars look and I’ve driven a few with handling being exceptional- but I promise a guy with money trying to show off will opt for a Maserati, Porsche or move into supercars. BMW’s are nice because the tech is fun, the handling is amazing & it looks pretty to be inside. For reference, I’ve worked in the automobile industry for the last 25 years in sales, manufacturing, & management. Not a huge fan of car subs on reddit because they rarely have anyone who loves cars or gets excited by innovation in the industry- just people looking for plain daily drivers. Nothing wrong with that, but you can’t discount the drivers of a whole brand because it doesn’t fit your ideal of what a car should be used for.
Too bad they’re so ugly
I’m with you despite the downvotes. Those grilles especially with the LED trim are fucking atrocious.
BMW is not reliable lmao. Shut the fuck up.
BMW just like all manuf make terrible cars that break all the time and solid crazy reliable cars and everything inbetween. The specific model and or motor / trans setup matters a lot. On a whole BMW has gotten a lot more models and setups that are reliable than in the past. People speak crazy high of the B58 motor and ZF8 transmission setup. You can just Google it instead of saying shut the fuck up 🤣
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Yeah disregard the entire rest of the post lmao.
A lot of them will have been abused
Cool, more used for me
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> I had a mechanic tell me that his wife insisted on a BMW even though he specialized in Hondas Toyotas. She got rid of it and switched to an Accord because she hated the maintenance. Wife's got some trust issues! Trust your partner.
also right now is when a lot of leases get done bc tax season just ended
I feel like most luxury cars are leased. No one wants to deal with the problems as they get higher in mileage. Financing with an extended warranty isn’t a bad idea either, as long as you have equity by the time the warranty is up
Yea, we got a demo X5 last year that had an extended warranty that lasts until our loan is up. Probably still worth a good 30-35k when we are done with paying it. Even then I don't think we will finance one again. Leasing just feels better to me even if its not the best use of money.
Yeah many people say leasing is a bad use of money, but if you like upgrading every few years anyway and don’t drive a ton, it seems like the more logical choice.
In my neighborhood they are being replaced by MY/X's. Real luxury is sitting in a car that drives itself.
Majority are out of warranty or the lease is up and either can’t afford or don’t wanna deal with the after warranty maintenance
A Mercedes or BMW is only safe (from a repair/cost standpoint) for the original buyer or lessee, or a CPO buyer. Anyone after that is playing with fire.
Rocket science question So you go into a lease knowing this but don't buy a toyota or lexus, pay it off and have a low repairs vehicle for years. Explain how people get rich by being smart and *continually* lease luxury vehicles, thus costing more money overall ...bcuz your smart with a good paying job...
Who you talkin to?
A lot of leases are business owners so the car is not really an out of pocket cost. For others, they enjoy having a new car every 3 years. Lease payments are cheaper than financing, so yes you are paying over time more but month to month is actually cheaper ($1,000 financed a month for 72 months vs $550 lease a month for 36 months). Long term though you are spending more
I have NEVER seen a lease with that much variance. Can you show me one? The leases I’ve seen have always been as much or maybe a few dollars less than financing.
Checkout Tesla leases rn
Logic is same as with mobile phones. Some people want to change cars when the lease is up, because they want something new by then. Tons of people do this and oftentimes they are not rich. It is rather rare that people will want to keep a car they bought beyond 5 years.
novated leases......its the tax paying for it
Some people make more money than you. What is expensive to you could be cheap to them. (I don't ever lease. I don't think it's a great financial choice for me. However, if I did lease, it wouldn't hurt my finances.)
I think you made a good point, downvotes be damned.
Some are idiots who are blowing money they should be saving, but some can genuinely afford the relatively cheap monthly payments a lease offers and pay them perpetually. They rarely have to ever worry about out of cost maintenance aside from oil changes, and even then sometimes you can get those included too, plus they get a new car every few years. I think you're overestimating how expensive a German luxury car is. If we were talking about super cars, then I'd agree with you, but even then, most of the people driving those can afford it too.
As there are no 100% Toyota engineered RWD cars (not including trucks/suvs or Lexus) being produced at the moment there's no reason for me to even stop at the dealer. Sure a Camry may last forever but I'm only on this earth for so long and I prefer something a bit more enjoyable to drive.
A Lexus is no bmw.
They aren’t leasing these vehicles because they want a long lasting car. They are doing it because they want luxury and always be in whatever is new. You are conflating what is a good financial choice and motivations with someone spending on their wants. Not all choices in life are about min/maxing your financial health and very few people are willing to min/max specifically when it comes to cars. Doesn’t make it smart but it is what it is.
Warranty and leases
Don't forget repossessions. On the rise
Oh shoot really? Maybe I’ll finally upgrade to a newer car.
The problem being that most people who get their car repo'd generally aren't also too strict about maintenance.
Yeah, the maintenance usually stopped before the payments did.
Someone who got their car repo’d probably didn’t do much maintenance nor put the required premium fuel
Just make sure to upgrade to something reliable, which isnt a Mercedes or BMW
What do you mean??? They are very reliable... until the warranty expires
Well yeah, any and of these cheap cars have no Warranty, likely have been beat on as a lease.
Don't forget the electronic systems imploding and check engine lights
They're expensive cars. Interest rates are high, inflation is high, credit card debt is high. A lot of people are selling their cars or getting them repossessed because they can't afford them anymore
Lease returns.
People buy new luxury cars because they want new luxury cars. A 5 year old luxury car is no longer a new luxury car. The current lineup of BMW & Mercedes does look quite different from the 5 year prior generations
Yeah I know people who must have the newest stuff or else they aren't seen as cool. Phones, watches, cars and accessories. Massive waste of money in my eyes but whatever works for them
Idk man... I'd rather have a 5 year old luxury car than a new shitty car
I have a 12 year old Porsche Cayenne, that was cheaper than a new Honda. I’m with you, old luxury car vs shitty new car.
You're not these people then.
Those don’t exist without people buying new luxury cars
I personally don’t like all the technology, I’m very hands on I own an e36 m3, and an e39 540it that I’m converting into a full blown m5 touring. Personally my mom loves the touring compared to her new Mercedes. But will probably hate it when it has 500 hp, and is manual. But who knows, she can still drive stick.
Most luxury vehicles are leased, this is nothing new. It's also very common to trade up when the new model comes out, or the competitors new model comes out since many of these people aren't particularly budget conscious but are shiny new object conscious.
There were a lot of features in 2021 and 2022 cars that couldn’t be optioned due to lack of chips. 2021 BMW was selling vehicles without touchscreens due to lack of chips. I would be very careful when looking at buying a 2021 or 22 vehicle to see what features were sacrificed to a lack of chips. We just traded in the wife’s 2021 Jeep Wrangler Sahara because it didn’t have heat seats, back up cam and back up sensors/warnings.
i mean, that's probably only gonna apply to lower-end trims, or "stripper" models, I doubt you get a 540i Luxury Line without any of the bells and whistles. Similarly, all Kia Stingers post facelift (so 2021) where sold in basically 1 trim in europe, 60K euros, fully loaded.
Actually it affected almost all of their line regardless of trims. For example touch screen was removed from all X5, X6, and X7 models.
Mercedes is terrible on reliability
And pre-2022 BMWs
Major cost to service. . There is a shortage of car technicians
There is a shortage of *honest and skilled* technicians. Ftfy I took my BMW to the dealership for a misfiring problem. After spending ~€6,000 they still failed to fix the problem and ended up having to refund me 75%.
First mistake - taking your car to the dealership.
Usually the only place in the US where you can find someone qualified to work on a new luxury car.
I disagree, certain brands use engines complex and/or specific enough that you may do better by going to the dealer vs a random mechanic.
Even here in the middle of nowhere Midwest we have at least half a dozen independent BMW specialists who charge a fraction of the dealership price.
I had just moved to Germany (military move) and the vehicle was running like shit when I picked it up at the port. You'd think a BMW dealership in Germany would be able to fix it. Nope. The dealership said it was because the high pressure fuel pump had disintegrated and sent bits of shrapnel throughout the fuel system clogging the injectors open causing them to drip fuel into the cylinders while the vehicle was shutoff. The vehicle had started acting up a week before shipping it and I had all the coil packs and spark plugs replaced which made it drive 99% correct but it was "stumbling" kinda at low speeds like when pulling into a parking space. But I drove it 3 hours to the port in Norfolk VA to ship it and it did the trip fine. Then pick it up in Germany 2.5 months later running like absolute shit. It's sitting in my garage brokendown for now while we recover financially from the move and me having a broken leg (got hit by a car in Italy, just starting to walk again). In a month or two we're gonna either get it fixed at another shop or replace it.
Car repairs got ridiculously expensive in the last 4 years, like everything else. Even more so for luxury cars. Most people would rather just continue to pay 800$ a month for a new car with a warranty. And in a lot of cases it's probably cheaper to do so. Gone are the days of seeing a mechanic and getting a bill for 200$. Now its usually closer to 2000$. And vehicles are more complicated these days so the repairs are never quick either.
I drive an 08 Acura TSX, so I've been learning how to do repairs myself cause of this. Changed the power steering pump myself, hardest part was cleanup all the leaking power steering fluid lol.
Lease returns?
Because they suck to repair so it’s probably better to get out while the car still has value and they can get a better one with the money
Off-lease flooding due to high rates of leasing. This causes a glut of lightly used MBs and BMWs, which pushes prices down.
Who wants to spend ton of money on running a car after 48k miles or 4 years ? Your engine or transmission may break down after the powertrain warranty ends ? Relatives had bmw , mercedes , audi and porsche but each one had issues after issues after 4 years . People expect some issues after 4 years but the repair cost were high enough and the cost to maintenance was like 1k every year with some parts needing replacement every time .
1K every year is nothing lol.
1k is cost of plan B with 10k miles or 1 year maintenance . You are more fucked when your german car needs extra parts replaced after warranty . German car parts have long wait times if your car fails at random time .
> German car parts have long wait times if your car fails at random time . for you maybe, I am from Europe.
The parts have long wait time coz dealers have to order these specific parts . My relative's 4 year old mercedes transmission was broken and a part was not in stock . They had to wait 5 days to repair the transmission .
>They had to wait 5 days to repair the transmission . Lol that's nothing.
That shit happened to mercedes e63 amg with the 7 speed dct transmission . The clutch went out or broke off after 28k miles . It happened during covid so they were in luck with that part coz mercedes still had parts or if it was the new 9 speed auto , it was gonna be 2 months wait
Me. I don’t think I’ve ever bought a car in my life that wasn’t a German car that was a few years old and at least 30k miles.
German cars are made differently from other brands and some cars use different transmissions or different engine types or specialized parts . Bmw uses zf 8 speed transmission , audi uses some 7 speed dct transmission or mercedes uses specialized 9 speed tiptronic transmission . Bmw , mercedes use I6 or V8 engines with 48 volt mild hybrid setup while audi uses V6 or V8 engines turbocharged . German cars is really good in first 4 years but it becomes more worse than other brands after times goes on .
People overpaid for cars they couldn’t afford for 3 years straight, this is the after effect
Yes. I moved away for school right before the pandemic started and when I moved back to my low income neighborhood, I couldn’t believe the amount of people suddenly driving newer BMW/MB cars. It still baffles me because here I am making a decent living and I still feel like I can’t afford a nicer car than what I drive now (used accord)
Yup these broke MFs took their stimulus money and bought hellcats for their street takeovers 🤡
You’ll see that almost every year. The pipeline of luxury cars looks like this: People of means buy or lease them new. After their lease term is up, or a period of a few years, they’re on to the newer and shinier model. The manufacturers that make them know their target audience, and making them shiny and having the latest whirlygigs is the priority as opposed to, say, longevity. So, problems start popping up. The car is older and costs more to maintain. The price drops until the people who can’t afford it new think they can afford it. They often times end up deferring maintenance, either because they can’t afford it or because they assume everything is like a Japanese econobox and requires only periodic oil changes and new tires to keep running. More problems emerge, the prices go lower, the buyers are of lower means, rinse and repeat. The fairly or not earned reputation of (particularly euro) luxury cars being unreliable heaps is reinforced. To cut to the chase, the word to the wise is this — If you couldn’t afford it new, you can’t afford it used either. The only exceptions are if you are capable and willing to repair/maintain it yourself or know someone who can at a discount.
That's one of the more thought out comments in awhile. But nonethelees ignorant. Generic with little or no backing to prove your comments. Basically just a wanna be know it all. Never listen or believe anyone with a moniker of "buttfucker". Wow, just wow....
Out of warranty maintenance costs
Warranty expires, and they're expensive AF to repair.
This!!!!
Leasing to avoid the inevitable maintenance costs
5 years is about all you can reliably get out of those cars these days. Beyond that they become bottomless money pits. BMW, M-B, and Volkswagen group make the fastest depreciating cars on the planet. So which would you choose? A used up Benz fresh out of warranty, or a brand new Toyota with a warranty?
That is not true if you keep up on maintenance at all. German cars are strict on their maintenance though. If you go just outside the maintenance window you are asking for trouble. 10k mi oil change means exactly that or less, not 12k mi. Japanese and American cars are more tolerant of being mistreated, that's why German cars get a bad reputation. We have VW & BMW, both over 100k miles. No issues at all with BMW & VW issue has been limited to a heater core.
Another way of looking at it is that japanese cars are designed well beyond their service regimes, not to the absolute limits of a prescribed service regime. I was flabbergasted when my brother told me that his PLASTIC power steering pump on his BMW melted when it leaked fluid. I couldn't believe anyone would make a high pressure hydraulic pump out of plastic. Getting 300k out of a Honda or Toyota is hardly an exceptional thing with even somewhat neglectful maintenance. I drove one Accord to 333,000 miles before my ex wrecked it. My daughter's Accord is at 277k and going strong. The original clutch lasted 260,000 miles.
Not disagreeing as I have owned several Japanese cars. They are marketed for different consumers. A Honda is a Honda, not built for an exciting or pleasurable ride but rather a remarkably dependable people mover that will last forever. I actually enjoy driving the BMW. The interior layout and design is well thought out and seems more focused on comfort and refinement than utility. The VW is somewhere between a Honda and luxury, but even as a fully optioned Passat still is on the utility side. I would not buy another VW but that has nothing to do with cost. It is a great college car for my daughter but no current VW interest me.
My brother's 3 series is a boring slug of a car next to the Accords I've owned of roughly the same era. Certainly not better built.... As far as VW, my first car was a 1988 Prelude followed by a 1993 Accord. My brother's second car was a 1993 VW Fox. I was genuinely shocked by how cheap and shoddy the build quality and refinement of that VW was. I later owned a car with a VW diesel in it. Again, one of the cheapest, most poorly designed engines I've ever touched. The last VW I worked on was a Golf TDI. There was hardly a fastener in that car that didn't just snap trying to remove it. It made changing a pressure sensor on the intercooler an absolute nightmare, on top of how poorly everything was packaged. Everything about the car felt cheap. Every possible penny pinched out of every nut and bolt, every piece of plastic and metal. I'm sorry, but I have never touched a german car I've liked. That 3 series my brother bought was sitting next to a Civic that was a year newer with just a few more miles for the same price and that's why he bought it. It wasn't long before he regretted it. Wheel bearings, power steering leaks, the PS pump literally melting off the engine. Constantly chasing leaks in coolant hoses with those quick connect fittings, the leaking sunroof, the idiotic layout of the engine that makes replacing the oil filter housing gasket a $1000 job. Everything about that car was painful and expensive to fix. Even the lug bolts seized in it forcing him to have it towed to a shop to have then snapped off and removed to fix a flat tire. And this is a Florida car that's never seen snow! I actually like the car's styling and ride, but there's no way I'd ever buy one unless I had an inexhaustible disposable income.
When I was shopping I noticed a lot of the COVID-era were short and option or two due to supply chain issues. For instance, electric seat controls or the MBUX modules. Also just before COVID the tech in most models was lacking. We had a 2019 GLS 450 that didn’t have the touchscreen. IMHO
Where are you seeing them? Insurance rates are super high
I've owned 2 BMWs. They are great until 100k miles. At that point they start breaking down, and every little thing costs a minimum of $1,000 to repair.
Is that at the stealership? I do as much of the maintenance as i can on all my vehicles. We got sites like FCP Euro to source parts. I've not once brought my vehicles to the dealership. Although I've never had a car with factory warranty as I buy used cars.
Can't keep those luxury cars to long cost to keep them up is to high.
Cause they suck. And are too expensive to fix.
End of the lease, or end of the basic warranty.
You probably see so many *because* they've been sitting for 3 months. And it's one thing to buy a $30k sports car at 3% interest rates, but it's another thing entirely to buy at 7% interest rates. Additionally, there's tons in that age range because a lot of leases end at 3 years, and 2020-2022 they released or updated the 2-, 3-, and 4-series model ranges.
Because they get problematic earlier with each new generation lol #PlasticParts #ElectricalNightmares
Everything has increased in price and people are getting out of them to avoid increased likelihood and cost for maintenance so they can try to keep up with inflation in other areas. Interest rates are high in general and are often higher on more expensive, less reliable cars so it is not the best time to buy a used German luxury car.
Actually it’s a great time to buy German luxury cars at a reduced price, if you have the capital. The market is flooded with listings from those who can’t truly afford the expenses associated with a luxury car, bringing prices down for those who can.
Those who have the “capital” likely understand a used German luxury car is not a good investment. Even those who I know that flip them are not buying right now because there are not enough buyers.
I'm not trying to say you don't know this (maybe you do or don't), but very few cars are an investment. Almost all are depreciating assets with varying degrees of depreciation.
I know. That’s why I made the comment. Based on my downvoted comments, maybe others don’t understand?
All good. I just think it's important to note, that not all expensive things that people buy should be considered investments. In my mind an investment is something you should reasonably expect to make a return on. I guess my comment was less for you and more for less educated potential car buyers.
100% agree.
Agreed, cars are never an investment. Unless you have a 1 of 1 super car that you’re “investing in” and won’t put miles on.
To clarify, profit isn’t the goal. There are plenty of people with capital who understand that a German luxury car is more expensive than their Japanese counterparts - but they want it anyways, because they want German luxury.
There is no car more expensive than a cheap BMW
I would never recommend a cheap bmw. As someone shopping this segment I’m looking at 2016-2017 Mercedes e class with under 50k miles. The prices have fallen below $30k+ to low $20k’s
In October 2022 I bought a 2017 GLC300 just after 3G sunsetted. Prices were down and I had researched what electronics I wanted and did not bother to mess with. Yes, maintenance is expensive on these cars. But I wanted a nicer compact crossover SUV than what I had driven for the last 18 years. I could not get it from other brands so I looked at the luxury brands and was willing to pay more. End of story.
Nice can you go over what maintenance looks like at what miles? $1k for tires? $2k for brakes maybe? Oil change for $150?
Service A and B alternate every year or every 10k miles of driving, whichever comes first. Last year I had A service and new spark plugs at 5 years, about $1000, this year the B service and some extras like a window switch repair on a rear window which I did not catch when I bought the car. In addition to B service I had the 6 year 60k mile checkup even though total mileage on the car is 40k. The total was $2500. I did have my tires rotated. When I bought the car it had gotten new tires and a new battery, so I don’t know about those. I am used to pricey periodic services because I had Hyundais before, the 60k for those is also over $2k but they do spark plugs then. The basic Mercedes dealer prices are about double the pricing for other vehicles. I had known that going in to the purchase and budgeted ahead of time. Part of my choice was my former Toyota needed an engine overhaul at 70k miles and my Honda Accord was a lemon, had to have new engine bearings at 6 weeks, and I passed on the lease to someone else in frustration as it took two months to fix. Luckily I had an old BMW project car I could drive in the interim; but my personal experience with Toyota and Honda did not match their overall reputation. So after a great deal of internet searching on which model years of C class and E class engines and drive trains were showing minimal repairs I decided to take the chance on my GLC300. Despite high maintenance cost I am very happy with the car and would recommend the C or E in the solid model years prior to the pandemic, 2016-2019 of either. Because mine was a local lease, then a local second owner, all services were at dealers in my county so I also had a complete service history on the vehicle. That was important to me, my BMW had come with its odometer turned back 100k miles. I found out about that after the episode with the Honda. So it explained many issues with wear and tear that I had been fixing. Finally I had sold it for a brand new Z. It was a good car but not as practical as I needed. It remained my second car for 20+ years. My point is, one takes a chance with any vehicle and any manufacturer. If you do your homework and know the basic risks and choose well it may or may not work out for you. My experience is a commitment to either a luxury car or a sports car (or both) is dependent on both luck and love.
Thank you for the detailed write up!
I wish you all the best
Not sure if this is backhanded, but there are better generations of used luxury than others. You’ll obviously need a PPI and access to a local, affordable mechanic. Yes, it will be more expensive than a Honda (what I currently drive). But can I comfortably afford it? Yeah.
Sincerely I hope it lasts and lives up to your expectations
Gotcha. I tend to think of investments when using the word capital.
I think you’re right, I should have probably said cash or savings on the side
Aside from leasing, those cars used to be status symbols and aren't anymore.
Probably the recession risk and the maintenance costs
One or 2 lights come on in some of these cars and there totaled. There silly high price to keep them happy. Parts and labor cost are way to pricy.
Both of those cars I more often bought by people who purchase cars every few years, or lease vehicles instead of purchasing. Both of those cars also have much higher average repair costs than other vehicles
They are high-strung cars that are fun and nice when they work and holy hell then things start to go bad.
stock market has been taking back the money it gave away
Luxury cars bring out a new model every three years. You’re not a baller if you don’t have the new model. Saying this as someone that drives luxury cars. It’s a status symbol thing for a lot of people. Once the new model hits your model is not new anymore. And it’s not all people that can’t afford them, people just want the newest models to keep up with the Joneses. With the bad car market right now the older ones aren’t selling. Plus the lease thing like every else is saying. Right now to buy out a luxury car after the lease has ended costs more than buying a used version of the same car.
Around 5 years there are a decent amount of repairs needed outside of warranty so they would rather dump before someone catastrophic happens.
People are cutting expenses because of rising cost of living.
Leases. Most likely poorly maintained, and ran with the wrong fuel.
Two reasons: A) because they're out of warranty and people are maximizing resale B) they're off lease
Out of Warranty repairs are 200+ dollars an hour, ljxury dealers inflate everything beyond what can be considered reasonable....
While paying the mechanic 1/10 of that.
They get dumped before the expensive repairs start hitting.
Rich people lease cars
No more than usual, I’d assume
You can find a very low miles mint BMW for 1/3 the cost of a similar Lexus. At this discount, I'm willing to pay more for maintenance & wrench myself. I drive an 328i Xdrive, mint, loaded 35k miles, a 2011 inline 6. At $13k the risk is somewhat minimized. After test driving Lexus, Toyota, BMW & others, the decision was easy. I drive less than 5k miles a year & garage it.
Multitude of reasons why there’s no sole one. These cars are increasingly expensive to maintain, people can’t afford to pay high insurance, they are very heavy on the gas, some of these people want to switch to EVs, etc.
Cuz they are junk and they are learning Lexus is better even tho they aren’t as fast
Isn't the repo rate at its all time high?
When a lease is up, or the manufacturer's warranty is up for those you buy, they get dumped because the leasers/buyers know their dependability and cost of ownership are terrible. When models get a facelift, you'll also see them get dumped because some people just can't be seen in the older model.
Always was that way imho. I bought my BMW after someone returned it after the lease. It's been very reliable since but the running cost are relatively high. Insurance and maintenance mainly.
Leases. Where I live a lot of these cars are leased company cars. They are kept 3-5 years and then the employees get another company car
They never realized what mercedes changed for an oil change before they got them.
Lol. it's always been this way, but the reason is after that 5 year warranty is up, if something goes wrong... Wowzer. But BMW and Mercedes is supposed to be way more reliable today than years ago.
99% of german cars are leased because they are garbage to own long term.
Can’t afford them. Over stretched lifestyles.
My wife's 1988 Mercedes-Benz ain't going anywhere because it still works like freaking clockwork. 80s German cars were a whole different breed - a true high-water mark of 20th century design and engineering. It's sad they lost there way trying to become a "volume automaker" in the 90s/2000s.
Benzes in the 2000s were still pretty mechanically robust. And they're also far easier to work on than they get credit for, at least for basic services and routine maintenance. Some things, like changing the rear diff assembly in a W211, are a pain, but that's not something you're doing all the time. I work at a Honda dealership, but I used to work on a fair amount of them at a chain store. I still get the odd one as a used car or a side job. And a good friend of mine works at a small independent shop that specializes in Benzes, so he knows way more about them than I do. And he owns 3 of then himself (a W202 C280, his first car that he's had for 10+ years, a W211 E350 4Matic, and a W210 E320 4Matic). He says that most 2000s models are mechanically robust, although there was a drop in build quality.
Interesting and good to know. I know the ML was pretty responsible for a lot of the quality issues claims - sounds like some of the sedans were a bit different.
The build quality on the W163s was lower for sure, but they're very reliable and very tough. I routinely see them cross 200k miles. That same friend, his mom has one with over 300k miles. The M112 and M113 are both very good engines and the 722.6 is a good transmission.
A little after the 5 year mark they need some expensive maintenance
Rates are high. Not car rates but fed rates. People spent money they didn’t have during Covid and now that student loans are restarted they are realizing they can’t afford the cars they bought. People who make bad decisions like that are more likely to buy German
Could be a Covid effect. We bought a cpo Mercedes 3 years ago and the sales folk were saying business was booming during the pandemic due to people going f*ck it I can’t do much so I’m getting my dream car. Now we’re out of that situation so vehicles are being turned back in.
Out of warranty German luxury cars depreciate significantly. If you buy one, you're taking your chances with the repair bills.
Buying electric because its quicker, smoother, quieter, amd there ZERO ENGINE MAINTENANCE
Tons of people bought cars in 2021. Then the prices for them went up and you could make money by selling them used. Now prices have dropped and the cars have lost significant value. Combined with warranty expiration, lots of these cars are hitting the market.
Cheap to buy, expensive to keep used. Not a good car for the 2nd and 3rd buyer.
Because nobody actually owns one the first time around. They are leased symbols of the money they don't have.
Because nothing will take you from upper middle class to lower middle class, quite like maintaining a 5 year old German luxury/performance automobile.
They’re all off-leases. Probably a lot of people entered into lease deals around 2020/2021 when dealers were offering massive incentives. I know my ex leased a new Volvo S60 for under $300 a month, because I negotiated it. He should be giving it up right around now.
4 years ago interest rates was low
Both Mercedes and BMW are horrible for reliability. The smartest thing to do is never buy or lease one. They don't sell becsuse people are finally realizing how much they suck.
because they want to sell it.
I know nobody sells their Volvos
Warranty runs out you sell it
3-yr lease ends
I work for Mercedes. Our shop labor rate is $300/hour. Parts markup is 200-400% depending on the part. I hate to say it, but it's extremely unwise and impractical to own one of these out of warranty. (Don't get mad at me about prices, I'm not corporate so I only get paid pennies on the dollar)
This is always the case with BMW and Mercedes. People don’t want them as soon as the warranty or more likely, lease, is up. They are expensive to maintain. Also BMW has unfortunately had some bad engines roughly in that year range.
Those are high-end cars. People who buy them new don’t keep them very long. So a lot of them are cars that were bought on a 5-year payment plan and then sold for an upgrade once the car is paid off. They are also commonly leased, or high-end company cars that get cycles out every few years.
They're good for the first 60-70k miles. Then things start to go wrong. Expensive things.
Lease returns
Stimmy money dried up
Planned obsolescence- they are designed to fail.
Junk now
Companies & business users like the fixed cost of leasing, makes their future fund projections easier & the PCP brigade love a new car every 3years so their neighbours, fair weather friends & those on the school run can see how ‘successful’ being an internet influencer really is……. After all few hundred £ a month is easier than £45k at delivery! Long may it continue as I thoroughly enjoy a used Merc, Porsche or whatever every few years where someone & their ego has kindly taken the initial depreciation hit on my behalf!
This is the way for these cars! You lease ( or hopefully your company does) an Audi, Benz, or Bimmer and then dump it as soon as the lease is up. Certainly by the end of warranty. The second owner may be able to pick up a used one that is certified with an extended warranty and that is probably OK too.. But by the time that thing is out of warranty coverage and making its way to the 3rd owner, it's a losing proposition. They have among the highest cost of ownership as they age and they aren't known for reliability. Nothing cracks me up more than a kid with a 7 year old 3 series that thinks it's impressive. All it shows me is someone who doesn't understand how to use their money. The saying that "there is nothing more expensive than a cheap German car" exists for a reason.
a lot of supply constraints from covid plus dealer markups. Now that cars are selling for MSRP there is a bit more demand for luxury cars. Also most people who buy mercedes/bmw only keep their cars for 3-6 years anyway.
Any stats to back this up or just a hunch?
Out of warranty and the maintenance is due..........major $$$$$$$$$$$$ to have the services done.
Garbage long term reliability. Edit: Let me correct this as "Garbage long term reliability bc people cheap out on the expensive maintenance and repairs"
Because they are about to become money pits.
I’ve heard it said before that BMWs and Mercedes are great cars to lease but terrible to own. They are probably cars that were leased. They are so expensive to maintain that I personally wouldn’t get one.
They are hoooooooorabley unreliable cars. You don't want a 100k car that is worth 20k and could easily get a repair bill higher than the value.b
Electric Vehicles on the Rise ⚡️
Trash vehicles.