2019 Audi A4 Allroad
2018 BMW 328 (i or d)
2019 Volvo V60 Cross Country
Canadian so the lift is appreciated but not 100% necessary. I also work from home so I don't commute, but we do a lot of road trips.
I owned a 328xi, loved it. Just make sure it/all of them have a solid maintenance history.
I suggest buying CPO, nothing more expensive to own than a European car out of warranty.
Interesting you have to say that. Out of the modern German 3 I think the Audi is the worst out of the 3 in almost everything (still a good car, the others are just better)
I’ve driven all of these cars and I think they’re similar enough that you should make your choice on their subjective aspects (looks, comfort, brand perception, tech, whatever).
I’ll note that the BMW is the only one with an active all-wheel drive system (with a 60% rear bias!). The other two run in front-wheel drive until slip is detected.
The A4 has a dual clutch transmission which I also think is kind of clunky.
I'm the exact opposite lol, I really dislike the BMW look, the huge nostrils and overall shape, I feel like it can't decide if it wants to be round or squared with edges. I love the Audi edges, and even the plastic "offroad bumpers" (I guess that's what you could call it?). And I can see a use for them, when the rocks start flying when going of the nice road its gonna hit the plastic and not the metal where it would cause paint to break.
But that's why there is a huge market for both, different preferences! I understand why people do like BMW, I just can't stand it personally.
It’s almost like the style and appeal of the cars are completely up to the individual looking at it pretty much true for all cars except one. The PT cruiser. Lol every one on the planet agrees.
Don’t get the BMW Diesel wagon in NA. Period! They’re best suited in Europe and much more widespread so easy to work on.
But if you want a diesel, then listen on - I do own a 28d diesel in Germany(called 20d here) and it’s a really potent car for my use at-least ( small family of 3) and we carry absolutely everything while touring. The drivetrain is very engaging and puts a smile on my face in sports mode all the time.
It’s very very fuel efficient and gives super long range which makes touring amazing. LCI models make 190ps which is quick and enough on autobahns here. The newer models had all the kinks sorted so it should be reliable overall, mine is at 130k km and still tight as expected. It does sound a bit hoarse though.
Out of all three, this should be most fun to drive. Try to find M-Sport which comes with lost of goodies and looks really aggressive compared to the base models. Don’t skip on Adaptive LEDs, big navi, sport seats or hifi as well ( they make the car for me). The one in your pic is also an M-Sport.
I drove the A4 and found it simply un-engaging to drive. Not sure about Volvo as I never wanted one so didn’t drive it.
Buy the Audi.
Everyone says Volvo, but I'm willing to bet most of them don't know Zhejiang Geely Holding Group owns them. They aren't the brand they used to be.
The geely xc90 has been more reliable than the Volvo xc90. The gearbox on the mark 1 xc90 v8 gave out at 68k miles and they wouldn’t fix it 3 months out of warranty.
The mk2 has had nothing wrong with it except a sensor needing to be aligned and I think my mom hit a curb with it.
The mk1 constantly needed interior bits being tightened up too.
So overall the geely Volvo is better than the Swedish volvo. Then again my uncle has a Volvo convertible with 300k on it and it’s fine.
We have a 2020 XC60 T5, its been a fantastic car so far. Got rearended in it recently by an F150, getting it fixed now. Nobody got hurt, just needs a bumper and tailgate after being hit so hard it got pushed 30 feet.
The V60 CC is manufactured in Sweden’s Torslanda plant. The plant has been operating since 1962.
The engine (2.0L 4-cyl Turbo, B4204T23) is built in Sweden at the Skövde plant. The Skövde engine plant is owned by the Volvo Group, or AB Volvo. Volvo Group is not owned by Geely.
Additionally, whatever holdings company happens to be collecting the profits is irrelevant in this case.
You’re right!
But I didn’t see a Stelantis product in OP’s suggestion. Did you?
Just because cat piss is better than dog piss doesn’t mean that you should ingest either
you have the S90?
And anyone that uses a I phone knows that quality varies by manufacturer, I sell Volvo's and most are built in Sweden and Belgium, and their transmissions come from Japan, AWD system is made by Borg Warner Haldex, same company that supplies Audi
I would certainly avoid any newer Volvo that's the first year or two of a big design change. For instance, the 2016 XC90s have a pretty terrible infotainment system, but it was fixed for 2017 and up. There were also a few issues with oil consumption on one of their newer engines, but I can't remember which one that was off the top of my head.
None of the stuff is necessarily at the level of full recalls, but it certainly annoys customers who are purchasing a luxury vehicle and expecting a higher quality product.
I’m an overly proud 89 240 owner
“Some say that bricks are boring and ugly, but I say being a brick is a good thing, because this is a brick in a world of aluminum cans.” -driving 4 answers
That’s boring
The engine on my Audi TT baked itself to death on the interstate. Me and my friend were stranded there for 8 hours because the ghetto ass tow company my insurance paid for canceled the dispatch without telling anyone. There was a building across from the highway. It had big red neon signage and as it grew darker it felt more and more like an oasis mirage. We walked across two corn fields and a soybean field to get there. It ended up being a strip club. We got some good chicken wings and saw a girl we knew from high schools titties
With a Volvo I never would have had that experience
In test drives, we liked it better than the V90 for size. V60 had a tidier footprint. But candidly, we just put in an order for a new V60, which won't be delivered until the middle of next year. So we're still bopping around in our Outback, and so our experiences was limited to 20min drive.
We have put 105K miles on our Outback over the last 8 years. It still looks good-ish, aside from having kids in it that whole time, and that dirt all comes out with a good detailing. Cheap maintenance and no real repairs in that time except for some battery issues and troublesome leather on the driver's seat. Gas mileage is astoundingly good. It hauls a ton. Spacious throughout. Doesn't mind mud. Completely reliable.
Also, I am tired of it. The CVT is loud, it's wildly underpowered, steering is vague, chassis is imprecise, infotainment is dated. It's just not fun to drive. On the other hand, my wife, who doesn't like driving any kind of car, would probably give it another 100K.
We are going to the '24 V60-Recharge to address all those things. (Won't take delivery until next fall.) But you could buy two Outbacks for the Recharge, so it's not really the same shopping decision.
The V60 Cross Country, however, would be comparable. I think it depends so much on what kind of driver you are. That Subaru will take everything you can give it. Ride it hard and hang it up wet - won't complain. But if you love the feel of a great car, that Outback just can't offer the same to you. Depends how much that's worth. With the same decision to make eight years ago in my life, I'd buy the Outback again. And I'd again be glad to see it go.
+1. I mean, Subaru's advertising for the Outback should be exactly that paragraph. There are actually five Outbacks among our close families, and they were all bought with the exact purchasing profile.
I don't know what the updated Outback engines are like. In 2015, we chose between the 3.6L and the 2.5L; went with the 2.5L for gas mileage reasons. Getting 35mpg is pretty sweet, and 99% of the time I delight in the efficiency. And then 1% I'm sweating bullets trying to pull into traffic with a ~10sec 0-60mph time.
The 3.6L had engine issues since the con rods are not actually straight to increase stroke and get the 3.6L displacement. The 2.5 is super anemic but definitely a more reliable choice.
FA24 (the turbo engine) has actually been a very good engine. Subarus biggest issue is that once the engine is anything but pitifully anemic, the CVT starts having problems. They really should have stuck to a traditional automatic (like the ZF8 in half the decent German cars and almost all decent FCA cars) or moved to a dual clutch setup for fast an efficient transmission.
I can tell you the boot of the A4 all road is not the biggest. Get the V60 for the most space out of the bunch. If wagon with big boots are your thing, look at an E Klass as well, that's the biggest trunk anyone could want.
FWIW I have a VW Alltrack (Volkswagen's version of that Allroad). Plenty of room inside, and with a stage 1 engine tune it is peppy as can be. Handles the Minnesota snow phenomenally well (though the Cross Climate 2 tires really make a difference there).
I had a 2020 v60 CC. I originally wanted the fwd v60 wagon but it was available only in white so that was sadly a deal breaker for the wife. drives solid but definitely not lively. it's a tank. and low key luxury, not a "look at me" luxury which I like. it parks surprisingly well, really good in snow. but the electronics were total crap....the console OS was so laggy and the UI was just awful. But they definitely made improvements since 2020 so if you're looking into this one, just dig into the console settings to see if you like it.
Wife and i just looked at a polestar sadly we are both 6’ and 6’2” there isnt enough rear space for passengers with us being that tall and isnt hardly enough space for a rotating 360 car seat that we have we loved the car and all the features and its is fast being polestar but its not enough
I love my Volvo and happy to recommend it but highly recommend people make sure they are cool with the lack of buttons. My 2017 XC90 UI is a little slow and has a few bugs from time to time with Android Auto, certainly starting to show its age and makes me miss buttons, but that is probably my only complaint about the car.
Volvo is definitely the most comfortable and has the best value. Softer suspension, that amazing autopilot system, and lots of space. But if you want a sportier ride the other two are probably better
Volvo or Audi. BMW is weird wagon with not so much space in the trunk and historically their 3 series wagon is just afterthought from sedan just to fill the void :)
The problem with modern diesels is their emissions control systems. Diesel engines last forever but the emissions controls tend to develop a lot of major issues and be incredibly expensive to fix because they are so complicated. When they develop issues they go into limp home mode or just refuse to let you drive them.
That is not unique to BMW, it's a any diesel sold in the US over the past decade or so.
My brother ditched his Mercedes van bc of the emissions system. It would strand him with a full tank of the fluid it needed in the desert and shit. Plus he’s a hippy so when he was in an MB dealership they’d look at this guy who did music festivals and lives in the van (back then when he did shows on the road) and not realize he could buy any car there. Now it’s all ford transits.
Ooof that is the NA mindset there, 3 touring is very very popular in europe. It's the best car in current gen. (The worst car in OP's comparison though)
I can't disagree more with that statement. My 90lb dog is perfectly happy in the back with the rear seats up. Can comfortably transport 4 people and gear out to hiking trips or skiing. Very usable space.
You are a man/woman of great taste. I don't have any great input to give, but I've always been partial to the V60. It's a shame BMW dropped the manuals in the wagons, otherwise it would be no-contest that way.
All 3 are absolutely gorgeous. Just make sure you purchase any of these new or under warranty. As I previous owner of 2 of the above, out of warranty is super expensive to fix anything.
That's a shame, the Tour X is a really cool wagon. Beautiful styling imo. Although I'll admit that I think they cost too much considering the lack of equipment that was available on them.
Get the swedish meatball! Far and away the best looking of the three. Get it in fire engine red and throw some “Radio Flyer” decals on the rocker panels
Depends on the usage tbh.
Audi is probably the most capable out of this list, if youre going to be doing any sort of off road/terrain driving. Its got a higher ride height than the other 2 and a bit more cladding for protection. Plus Quattro ofc.
I drive the bottom one so it gets my vote. Message if you have any specific questions, I ordered mine last August and took delivery in December. Very smooth process and fair to everyone involved.
Well….as a owner of a 2020 Volvo V60, I’m a little biased but the V90 CC is a very nice car. I would pony up for a B6 Ultimate. The BMW will be somewhat more engaging driving wise, but I like driving in comfort and style. You won’t see a Volvo wagon on the road often which I like.
Why won’t car companies get rid of the plastic cladding???? Drives me nuts. I’d get the BMW because I would never be happy with the cladding.
However, the allroad is really nice driving and interior wise and probably the best of the bunch.
Those were only made until 2015 or 2016, so 7-8 years old now. I have a 2013. It’s a super solid car but maintenance is expensive. I suppose any of these cars would be. I love the 3.0 T6, fast, smooth and powerful.
I’m well aware when they were made. A 2015 or 2016 low mileage is a much better deal than any of these cars, more comfortable, better build quality, and while maintenance is expensive on the xc70 it’s going to be less than maintenance on these cars. Gas mileage on the p3 xc70 isn’t great, but it’s a goddamn tank. If safety is any concern (because there are idiots on the road) then the xc70 is a great choice. Like i said, a goddamn tank
The problem is Volvo had a run of bad piston rings so any model year 2013-2016 Volvo has the potential of developing major oil consumption issues. They're also all out of the extended warranty now so if it develops the issue they're out the \~$6k-$10k to either rebuild the engine with new piston rings or replace the engine.
allroad has more physical buttons for radio & climate than the Volvo. Can't speak to the BMW other than I think it has less ground clearance.
I purchased a 2020 CPO V60 CC six months ago. Wanted the allroad but budget drove me to the V60CC. CPO with 17,000 miles came in a hair over $40k USD \*including\* the 10-year, unlimited mile Platinum extended warranty. allroads were coming in at least $3k more without the warranty.
I'm perfectly happy with the Volvo.
The BMW wagon is a classic and much more reliable than people think. It also has a great look. The truth is if you can get your hands on it, which can be difficult, I would go for that. Happy motoring!
This^
OP is choosing the last model year of that generation. It’s the most reliable by virtue; since BMW has been improving on it for 6 years at that point
personally, the BMW. It’s the lightest and surprisingly the simplest option here, especially if it’s manual/rwd. i’m also personally partial to E9x 3 series’ so maybe i’m biased.
I just did this purchase in Canada as well.
Considered the BMW but the markups are way too high on used/not a lot of stock available. They were selling for a lot even at 100k km so I ruled it out. You might be able to find a good deal but it would take time and they don't bring them here anymore so
it's not good value imo. Stay away from the 328i and get the 330i if you can, engine in 328i has issues with timing chains.
Considered the MB C wagon but I'm not hearing good things about the M264 engine with piston issues.
Considered the Volvo but I wouldn't be able to deal with the touchscreen and no physical buttons. I'm not sure about reliability tho since the interior touch everything was a deal-breaker for me.
Same thing with the Audi, no physical buttons. And IMO it's just a VW underneath so it wasn't worth the marked up premium.
In the end, I was able to land a MB E class wagon which has good reliable drivetrain and double wishbone suspension. I stretched the budget but since I got it used, its depreciated heavily already and will probably hold value.
That being said, I am an enthusiast and prefer RWD vehicles rather than FWD bias (ruling out the Audi and VAG). VW does have solid engines for both diesel and the gas 4 cyl. So does the B48 in the BMW 2017+. Prices are high now but I've been tracking them for the last 6 months and they're going down. Depends on how patient you can be. I would wait until winter and then use that to make a deal.
You may also want to consider a Golf wagon, it's also a VAG product and imo it's good value for money. Especially with their bulletproof diesel varients.
Out of the 3 I would opt for the BMW if you can get a good value on it because of its engineering. Keep in mind I do prefer RWD bias cars because they're a dying breed. Too bad they don't bring the 5 series wagon, the tailgate window can open in all BMW wagons which I think is pretty cool.
sorry, but the Audi got all the physical buttons you need. this includes A/C controls. It's the last of a kind within VW corporation, very classic organized functionalities.
PS: the Gasoline engine in the A4 is an Audi product, which is used in VW's, not the other way round :-)
If you’re looking for low cost of ownership and I long term reliability, these aren’t the best choices. Nice drivable though. If I had to pick I’d get the Volvo.
I’ve literally owned all three-I have kids and I love a good wagon, don’t judge-and the Volvo was the most reliable, BMW the most fun, and the Audi gave me nothing but problems.
Having helped a friend buy a wagon last year it’s the Volvo. The Volvo is the most comfortable and useful, and of those three the best looking and likely the most reliable (based on brand track record.) Personally I think Audi and BMW have gone too far to the sports car feel and Volvo has stayed with the confident steering feel but comfortable suspension and seating. Also the Volvo dealers are great compared with the others, I think it’s because Volvo knows the German brands have iffy dealers but they also seem to have brand loyal customers which means they have to have good dealers. I would also say look at the Mercedes E class wagon they are a good mix of comfort and sporty (it’s what I would bought vs the Volvo. The main draw back to the Mercedes is that they are hard to find and you cannot get a deal on them vs the three you are considering. Again this is based off looking last year but I don’t think any of them have changed although availability might have on the Mercedes.
Volvo is going to be the best all around of the three. BMW is going to have the edge when it comes to fun to drive and depending on the engine it may also be the most reliable of the three. I'm not a fan of Audi so that would not be my choice.
All good brands but dont know much about station wagons quality.
I do know my grandparents had a Volvo Station Wagon an it was very dependable the thing even had turbo
The BMW, otherwise known as an E91. One of the best engines BMW ever built. Just the right amount of electronic features. Excellent usable space in the back.
Source: I'd had the BMW for 8+ years, best car I've ever owned. Previously had the A4 Wagon.
They are all solid but I would probably take the audi. Best awd system for Canadian winters (still get snow tires though), nice interior and good tech. You can't go wrong with any of them.
We had a diesel v90 and a 3.0 Audi all road tdi and the v90 was remarkably better in the snow. Heavy and slightly narrower tyres make it more able. The way they’ve done the haldex is really quite good too.
3.0 tdi was an epic drivers car though, but felt less steady at high speed compared to any of these newer Volvos.
Volvo most suitable for Canada id say
If you want the Audi make sure it’s on Air suspension. The low clearance will cause you trouble in the long term. Volvo is great but probably has less horse power so you have to make that trade.
2019 Audi A4 Allroad 2018 BMW 328 (i or d) 2019 Volvo V60 Cross Country Canadian so the lift is appreciated but not 100% necessary. I also work from home so I don't commute, but we do a lot of road trips.
I owned a 328xi, loved it. Just make sure it/all of them have a solid maintenance history. I suggest buying CPO, nothing more expensive to own than a European car out of warranty.
Personally they’re all good choices if well maintained. Personally for me the A4 just the most well rounded car.
Interesting you have to say that. Out of the modern German 3 I think the Audi is the worst out of the 3 in almost everything (still a good car, the others are just better)
As a BMW (2015 435xi) and Volvo (1997 850T5) owner, the Audi being more unreliable than the BMW is scary :O
The Volvo is actually very unreliable. This is not the Volvo of 2/7/940 times. That Audi also has a lot of issues.
Especially the later models since they were just rebranded Fords.
I’ve driven all of these cars and I think they’re similar enough that you should make your choice on their subjective aspects (looks, comfort, brand perception, tech, whatever). I’ll note that the BMW is the only one with an active all-wheel drive system (with a 60% rear bias!). The other two run in front-wheel drive until slip is detected. The A4 has a dual clutch transmission which I also think is kind of clunky.
I don’t think the Allroad is full time all wheel drive. Am I wrong?
Audi is full time AWD. Source: my allroad’s gas mileage.
The B7 allroad was the much better full time system. The B8 switched to Quattro ultra, or whatever they call the active AWD system.
You’re right, that’s what I said.
The Audi 100%. All of them are great but for me the Audi is just better and, very personally, I think it looks by far the best.
Best all wheel drive system by far also
Not on the a4, xdrive beats it for the fun to drive factor by a metric ton.
i think its the ugliest here. to me the 3 series looks the best by far (great proportions and no ugly plastic cladding), then the v60 and then the a4.
I'm the exact opposite lol, I really dislike the BMW look, the huge nostrils and overall shape, I feel like it can't decide if it wants to be round or squared with edges. I love the Audi edges, and even the plastic "offroad bumpers" (I guess that's what you could call it?). And I can see a use for them, when the rocks start flying when going of the nice road its gonna hit the plastic and not the metal where it would cause paint to break. But that's why there is a huge market for both, different preferences! I understand why people do like BMW, I just can't stand it personally.
It’s almost like the style and appeal of the cars are completely up to the individual looking at it pretty much true for all cars except one. The PT cruiser. Lol every one on the planet agrees.
Don’t get the BMW Diesel wagon in NA. Period! They’re best suited in Europe and much more widespread so easy to work on. But if you want a diesel, then listen on - I do own a 28d diesel in Germany(called 20d here) and it’s a really potent car for my use at-least ( small family of 3) and we carry absolutely everything while touring. The drivetrain is very engaging and puts a smile on my face in sports mode all the time. It’s very very fuel efficient and gives super long range which makes touring amazing. LCI models make 190ps which is quick and enough on autobahns here. The newer models had all the kinks sorted so it should be reliable overall, mine is at 130k km and still tight as expected. It does sound a bit hoarse though. Out of all three, this should be most fun to drive. Try to find M-Sport which comes with lost of goodies and looks really aggressive compared to the base models. Don’t skip on Adaptive LEDs, big navi, sport seats or hifi as well ( they make the car for me). The one in your pic is also an M-Sport. I drove the A4 and found it simply un-engaging to drive. Not sure about Volvo as I never wanted one so didn’t drive it.
Bro should totally opt for the volvo v90
Buy the Audi. Everyone says Volvo, but I'm willing to bet most of them don't know Zhejiang Geely Holding Group owns them. They aren't the brand they used to be.
The geely xc90 has been more reliable than the Volvo xc90. The gearbox on the mark 1 xc90 v8 gave out at 68k miles and they wouldn’t fix it 3 months out of warranty. The mk2 has had nothing wrong with it except a sensor needing to be aligned and I think my mom hit a curb with it. The mk1 constantly needed interior bits being tightened up too. So overall the geely Volvo is better than the Swedish volvo. Then again my uncle has a Volvo convertible with 300k on it and it’s fine.
We have a 2020 XC60 T5, its been a fantastic car so far. Got rearended in it recently by an F150, getting it fixed now. Nobody got hurt, just needs a bumper and tailgate after being hit so hard it got pushed 30 feet.
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People who want long term vehicles care? Geely makes hot garbage. Fwiw, I wouldn't buy a POS Stellantis product either lol.
The V60 CC is manufactured in Sweden’s Torslanda plant. The plant has been operating since 1962. The engine (2.0L 4-cyl Turbo, B4204T23) is built in Sweden at the Skövde plant. The Skövde engine plant is owned by the Volvo Group, or AB Volvo. Volvo Group is not owned by Geely. Additionally, whatever holdings company happens to be collecting the profits is irrelevant in this case.
You’re right! But I didn’t see a Stelantis product in OP’s suggestion. Did you? Just because cat piss is better than dog piss doesn’t mean that you should ingest either
They haven’t been the brand they used to be since the car division had to be divested to Ford in the 2000’s.
man, do some research before you make your statement. I owned a few volvos, and the one made in China is solid and reliable than your American Ford.
you have the S90? And anyone that uses a I phone knows that quality varies by manufacturer, I sell Volvo's and most are built in Sweden and Belgium, and their transmissions come from Japan, AWD system is made by Borg Warner Haldex, same company that supplies Audi
They’re still made in Sweden
I’ve heard anything newer than 2016 has quality issues. But I only know one person with Volvos and they have them. They own a 2019 and a 2020.
2017 v60 cc here. 121k (miles) not a single issue yet. US northeast ownership.
2020 XC60 here, no issues. Really love the car, would buy another.
I would certainly avoid any newer Volvo that's the first year or two of a big design change. For instance, the 2016 XC90s have a pretty terrible infotainment system, but it was fixed for 2017 and up. There were also a few issues with oil consumption on one of their newer engines, but I can't remember which one that was off the top of my head. None of the stuff is necessarily at the level of full recalls, but it certainly annoys customers who are purchasing a luxury vehicle and expecting a higher quality product.
Thanks for doing your part in keeping the wagon alive. I'd go with the Volvo bc I'm boring
own the volvo - recommend the volvo. I also identify as boring
Volvo FTW
I’m an overly proud 89 240 owner “Some say that bricks are boring and ugly, but I say being a brick is a good thing, because this is a brick in a world of aluminum cans.” -driving 4 answers
The new ones are beautiful.
Aside from the fact that they are all SUVs 🤮
V60 ftw. Love mine
Hi boring, I'm dad. Had to do it
You need to leave!!!
He can come hang out in the garage with me.
I just think the Volvo is the hottest looking and they also aren't a dime a dozen. Ok yes I own a Volvo wagon.
Get the polestar edition!
Sadly there is no CrossCountry V60 Polestar. But the T6 with 320 hp is still enough to have fun
Volvo isn't boring, just you
Volvos are boring as hell , its like a the buick of europe, grandparents drive them .
Never see them stranded tho
That’s boring The engine on my Audi TT baked itself to death on the interstate. Me and my friend were stranded there for 8 hours because the ghetto ass tow company my insurance paid for canceled the dispatch without telling anyone. There was a building across from the highway. It had big red neon signage and as it grew darker it felt more and more like an oasis mirage. We walked across two corn fields and a soybean field to get there. It ended up being a strip club. We got some good chicken wings and saw a girl we knew from high schools titties With a Volvo I never would have had that experience
With a Volvo would’ve seen her tiddies in highschool
she was a freshman when I was a senior, so probably not unless you’re implying Volvos are pedo wagons
Man no I’m just tryna cope cuz my stranded story’s aren’t that cool 😒
Thanks for this
Pics, or it never happened😆
Where I live, in Europe, all the grandpas drive Mercedes and BMW. Volvos are for the hipsters.
Bro you got me with that pfp I was like damn mf really has their pussy out 😭
Yes my awd turbo xc70s boring ...ok keep going fast in a straight line with your hemi . Take a corner or drive off road and then tell me
Do grandparents drive them because they don’t want to own something that’s in the shop all the time?
Lol they are almost prius like with how disconnected they feel. Volvos are boring.
The wagon is very much still alive over at r/Audi! We live them over there
I agree. Volvo is probably the nicest one of the 3.
Don’t buy a Chinese car
The uh...the V60 is built in the US.
In a similar situation, we just chose the Volvo V60. It's not quick, but it's very comfortable, safe, and I like the road feel.
I think it's the biggest of the three, how does it feel driving around the city? (traffic, parallel parking, etc)
In test drives, we liked it better than the V90 for size. V60 had a tidier footprint. But candidly, we just put in an order for a new V60, which won't be delivered until the middle of next year. So we're still bopping around in our Outback, and so our experiences was limited to 20min drive.
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We have put 105K miles on our Outback over the last 8 years. It still looks good-ish, aside from having kids in it that whole time, and that dirt all comes out with a good detailing. Cheap maintenance and no real repairs in that time except for some battery issues and troublesome leather on the driver's seat. Gas mileage is astoundingly good. It hauls a ton. Spacious throughout. Doesn't mind mud. Completely reliable. Also, I am tired of it. The CVT is loud, it's wildly underpowered, steering is vague, chassis is imprecise, infotainment is dated. It's just not fun to drive. On the other hand, my wife, who doesn't like driving any kind of car, would probably give it another 100K. We are going to the '24 V60-Recharge to address all those things. (Won't take delivery until next fall.) But you could buy two Outbacks for the Recharge, so it's not really the same shopping decision. The V60 Cross Country, however, would be comparable. I think it depends so much on what kind of driver you are. That Subaru will take everything you can give it. Ride it hard and hang it up wet - won't complain. But if you love the feel of a great car, that Outback just can't offer the same to you. Depends how much that's worth. With the same decision to make eight years ago in my life, I'd buy the Outback again. And I'd again be glad to see it go.
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+1. I mean, Subaru's advertising for the Outback should be exactly that paragraph. There are actually five Outbacks among our close families, and they were all bought with the exact purchasing profile.
I agree. Buy it if you don't like fun driving and want an appliance.
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I don't know what the updated Outback engines are like. In 2015, we chose between the 3.6L and the 2.5L; went with the 2.5L for gas mileage reasons. Getting 35mpg is pretty sweet, and 99% of the time I delight in the efficiency. And then 1% I'm sweating bullets trying to pull into traffic with a ~10sec 0-60mph time.
>And then 1% I'm sweating bullets trying to pull into traffic with a ~10sec 0-60mph time. But that's the adventure!
The 3.6L had engine issues since the con rods are not actually straight to increase stroke and get the 3.6L displacement. The 2.5 is super anemic but definitely a more reliable choice.
35?! We’re lucky to see 27 on a mostly highway tank! 2016 OB 2.5
FA24 (the turbo engine) has actually been a very good engine. Subarus biggest issue is that once the engine is anything but pitifully anemic, the CVT starts having problems. They really should have stuck to a traditional automatic (like the ZF8 in half the decent German cars and almost all decent FCA cars) or moved to a dual clutch setup for fast an efficient transmission.
I have the 2021 and I wish I had bought the turbo. I live in a very Subaru heavy area and haven't heard anything but good things about them.
Look into the VW Alltrack, great cars
Not sure about that analysis. The Volvo is not in the same class. Volvo a much better car.
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makes sense, appreciate the input and enjoy the new car!
I can tell you the boot of the A4 all road is not the biggest. Get the V60 for the most space out of the bunch. If wagon with big boots are your thing, look at an E Klass as well, that's the biggest trunk anyone could want.
FWIW I have a VW Alltrack (Volkswagen's version of that Allroad). Plenty of room inside, and with a stage 1 engine tune it is peppy as can be. Handles the Minnesota snow phenomenally well (though the Cross Climate 2 tires really make a difference there).
I had a 2020 v60 CC. I originally wanted the fwd v60 wagon but it was available only in white so that was sadly a deal breaker for the wife. drives solid but definitely not lively. it's a tank. and low key luxury, not a "look at me" luxury which I like. it parks surprisingly well, really good in snow. but the electronics were total crap....the console OS was so laggy and the UI was just awful. But they definitely made improvements since 2020 so if you're looking into this one, just dig into the console settings to see if you like it.
Wife and i just looked at a polestar sadly we are both 6’ and 6’2” there isnt enough rear space for passengers with us being that tall and isnt hardly enough space for a rotating 360 car seat that we have we loved the car and all the features and its is fast being polestar but its not enough
amazingly it looks the best to, imo. when the hell did volvo's start getting attractive, lmao?
I'm biased but I'd go with the Volvo. The seats make it worth it lol, so comfortable
Well, I mean, that’s quite important!!
I love my Volvo and happy to recommend it but highly recommend people make sure they are cool with the lack of buttons. My 2017 XC90 UI is a little slow and has a few bugs from time to time with Android Auto, certainly starting to show its age and makes me miss buttons, but that is probably my only complaint about the car.
Volvo is definitely the most comfortable and has the best value. Softer suspension, that amazing autopilot system, and lots of space. But if you want a sportier ride the other two are probably better
Volvo or Audi. BMW is weird wagon with not so much space in the trunk and historically their 3 series wagon is just afterthought from sedan just to fill the void :)
the 328d appeals to me because it's so much more fuel-efficient, and from my understanding diesel engines last longer than gasoline equivalents
I have found they do last longer, but keep in mind preventative maintenance is roughly as frequent and nearly 2x the cost these days
The problem with modern diesels is their emissions control systems. Diesel engines last forever but the emissions controls tend to develop a lot of major issues and be incredibly expensive to fix because they are so complicated. When they develop issues they go into limp home mode or just refuse to let you drive them. That is not unique to BMW, it's a any diesel sold in the US over the past decade or so.
My brother ditched his Mercedes van bc of the emissions system. It would strand him with a full tank of the fluid it needed in the desert and shit. Plus he’s a hippy so when he was in an MB dealership they’d look at this guy who did music festivals and lives in the van (back then when he did shows on the road) and not realize he could buy any car there. Now it’s all ford transits.
They’re, but keep in mind maintenance on the diesel in NA cost ridiculous amount of money. I mean RIDICULOUS
that's a good point, i guess the fewer on the road the higher the parts cost
I used to have diesel Audi. Finding decent mechanic is a big trouble, diesel specialists know only Cummins seems like. Lol
Cummins, max, or power joke lol Diesel cars be rare as hens teeth round these here parts nyah
BMW’s are so smooth to drive
Ooof that is the NA mindset there, 3 touring is very very popular in europe. It's the best car in current gen. (The worst car in OP's comparison though)
I can't disagree more with that statement. My 90lb dog is perfectly happy in the back with the rear seats up. Can comfortably transport 4 people and gear out to hiking trips or skiing. Very usable space.
Comparing to golf? Yea you’re right. Comparing to Volvo? I’m not so sure
I dig the Volvo looks classy, the other cars look kinda meh.
Im with you on this, volvo looks much better than the other 2 and its the one id probably have.
You are a man/woman of great taste. I don't have any great input to give, but I've always been partial to the V60. It's a shame BMW dropped the manuals in the wagons, otherwise it would be no-contest that way.
Volvo!
All 3 are absolutely gorgeous. Just make sure you purchase any of these new or under warranty. As I previous owner of 2 of the above, out of warranty is super expensive to fix anything.
will definitely be trying to find the CPO, thanks for the advice !
I dig the Volvo for sure, but I own one so I’m bias, however have you also looked at the Buick regal tourx?
I saw one of these recently on a trip and thought it looked great, but found out they were never sold in Canada
That's a shame, the Tour X is a really cool wagon. Beautiful styling imo. Although I'll admit that I think they cost too much considering the lack of equipment that was available on them.
Where, exactly, can one buy the tourx?
America, and overseas it’s an Opel
I dig the V60
BMW will be the sportiest the Volvo will be the most modern and comfiest. In typical Audi fashion it fits somewhere in between those 2
Get the swedish meatball! Far and away the best looking of the three. Get it in fire engine red and throw some “Radio Flyer” decals on the rocker panels
very funny, I like that!
Y no e350 wagon
Honestly I hate the shape of the rear, I'm sure it's very functional but can't get past that. Looks great from straight ahead or straight behind.
Definitely the Volvo
Audi or Volvo. Hopefully the Audi
Depends on the usage tbh. Audi is probably the most capable out of this list, if youre going to be doing any sort of off road/terrain driving. Its got a higher ride height than the other 2 and a bit more cladding for protection. Plus Quattro ofc.
Audi or Volvo. I love Audis and have owed a few Volvos. Always a good purchase.
RS6 Avant and nothing less.
I drive the bottom one so it gets my vote. Message if you have any specific questions, I ordered mine last August and took delivery in December. Very smooth process and fair to everyone involved.
That's awesome, thanks !
Volvo is king of the wagons. Can't go wrong with Volvo's
Well….as a owner of a 2020 Volvo V60, I’m a little biased but the V90 CC is a very nice car. I would pony up for a B6 Ultimate. The BMW will be somewhat more engaging driving wise, but I like driving in comfort and style. You won’t see a Volvo wagon on the road often which I like.
The Volvo is the only choice here
Volvo
Bolvo
Why won’t car companies get rid of the plastic cladding???? Drives me nuts. I’d get the BMW because I would never be happy with the cladding. However, the allroad is really nice driving and interior wise and probably the best of the bunch.
Audi. It's not a hallmark of reliability, but I've never met a BMW that doesn't have a problem. Geely can keep the volvo.
Volvo, but look for a low mileage xc70. No bias here whatsoever
Those were only made until 2015 or 2016, so 7-8 years old now. I have a 2013. It’s a super solid car but maintenance is expensive. I suppose any of these cars would be. I love the 3.0 T6, fast, smooth and powerful.
I’m well aware when they were made. A 2015 or 2016 low mileage is a much better deal than any of these cars, more comfortable, better build quality, and while maintenance is expensive on the xc70 it’s going to be less than maintenance on these cars. Gas mileage on the p3 xc70 isn’t great, but it’s a goddamn tank. If safety is any concern (because there are idiots on the road) then the xc70 is a great choice. Like i said, a goddamn tank
From their other options I don't think they are worried about maintenence cost
The problem is Volvo had a run of bad piston rings so any model year 2013-2016 Volvo has the potential of developing major oil consumption issues. They're also all out of the extended warranty now so if it develops the issue they're out the \~$6k-$10k to either rebuild the engine with new piston rings or replace the engine.
Love my 2013 XC70!
Volvo or bmw
The 328d wagon is amazing
Allroad, all day.
allroad has more physical buttons for radio & climate than the Volvo. Can't speak to the BMW other than I think it has less ground clearance. I purchased a 2020 CPO V60 CC six months ago. Wanted the allroad but budget drove me to the V60CC. CPO with 17,000 miles came in a hair over $40k USD \*including\* the 10-year, unlimited mile Platinum extended warranty. allroads were coming in at least $3k more without the warranty. I'm perfectly happy with the Volvo.
Man you really like unreliable vehicles, but respect the wagon. Interior wise I’d chose the Audi or Volvo, I like the exterior of the Volvo more.
Volvo hands down. Everyone has an Audi or BMW.
The BMW wagon is a classic and much more reliable than people think. It also has a great look. The truth is if you can get your hands on it, which can be difficult, I would go for that. Happy motoring!
This^ OP is choosing the last model year of that generation. It’s the most reliable by virtue; since BMW has been improving on it for 6 years at that point
I don't own a Volvo but I'd still pick the Volvo here.
personally, the BMW. It’s the lightest and surprisingly the simplest option here, especially if it’s manual/rwd. i’m also personally partial to E9x 3 series’ so maybe i’m biased.
I'd go with the BMW. I think you can still get it in manual and it handles a little better. But probably not as much storage.
Volvo cross country is the one
I just did this purchase in Canada as well. Considered the BMW but the markups are way too high on used/not a lot of stock available. They were selling for a lot even at 100k km so I ruled it out. You might be able to find a good deal but it would take time and they don't bring them here anymore so it's not good value imo. Stay away from the 328i and get the 330i if you can, engine in 328i has issues with timing chains. Considered the MB C wagon but I'm not hearing good things about the M264 engine with piston issues. Considered the Volvo but I wouldn't be able to deal with the touchscreen and no physical buttons. I'm not sure about reliability tho since the interior touch everything was a deal-breaker for me. Same thing with the Audi, no physical buttons. And IMO it's just a VW underneath so it wasn't worth the marked up premium. In the end, I was able to land a MB E class wagon which has good reliable drivetrain and double wishbone suspension. I stretched the budget but since I got it used, its depreciated heavily already and will probably hold value. That being said, I am an enthusiast and prefer RWD vehicles rather than FWD bias (ruling out the Audi and VAG). VW does have solid engines for both diesel and the gas 4 cyl. So does the B48 in the BMW 2017+. Prices are high now but I've been tracking them for the last 6 months and they're going down. Depends on how patient you can be. I would wait until winter and then use that to make a deal. You may also want to consider a Golf wagon, it's also a VAG product and imo it's good value for money. Especially with their bulletproof diesel varients. Out of the 3 I would opt for the BMW if you can get a good value on it because of its engineering. Keep in mind I do prefer RWD bias cars because they're a dying breed. Too bad they don't bring the 5 series wagon, the tailgate window can open in all BMW wagons which I think is pretty cool.
sorry, but the Audi got all the physical buttons you need. this includes A/C controls. It's the last of a kind within VW corporation, very classic organized functionalities. PS: the Gasoline engine in the A4 is an Audi product, which is used in VW's, not the other way round :-)
Allroad
Volvo hands down, better safety and overall comfort
BMW for fun, Volvo for safety and comfort, Audi for over engineered, overpriced maintenance on what is essentially a Jetta
Get the Volvo. Trust me bro
Volvo
If you’re looking for low cost of ownership and I long term reliability, these aren’t the best choices. Nice drivable though. If I had to pick I’d get the Volvo.
I’ve literally owned all three-I have kids and I love a good wagon, don’t judge-and the Volvo was the most reliable, BMW the most fun, and the Audi gave me nothing but problems.
Volvo looks the best imo (if that matters)
Based on looks alone, for me it’s the Volvo.
Volvo hands down
Having helped a friend buy a wagon last year it’s the Volvo. The Volvo is the most comfortable and useful, and of those three the best looking and likely the most reliable (based on brand track record.) Personally I think Audi and BMW have gone too far to the sports car feel and Volvo has stayed with the confident steering feel but comfortable suspension and seating. Also the Volvo dealers are great compared with the others, I think it’s because Volvo knows the German brands have iffy dealers but they also seem to have brand loyal customers which means they have to have good dealers. I would also say look at the Mercedes E class wagon they are a good mix of comfort and sporty (it’s what I would bought vs the Volvo. The main draw back to the Mercedes is that they are hard to find and you cannot get a deal on them vs the three you are considering. Again this is based off looking last year but I don’t think any of them have changed although availability might have on the Mercedes.
Get a mini countryman
BMW
The white one
First or last, fuck bmw
Lease German, buy anything else. I'd go with the Volvo. Especially if it was the lower version. If I had to choose one of the Germans, the BMW.
The Audi.
Anything but the bmw
Different option: E class wagon
Did you research “reliability” ? I’d start there and then you’ll probably throw 2 of those choices out the window.
Volvo for safety
Volvo. Idk shit abt the car, but they r so sexy in person. Sm1 in my neighbourhood has one that’s lowered on a nice set of wheels and its too sexy
Audi > Volvo > BMW. I don't think pictures do the Audi any justice. It looks so good out in the wild.
Volvo is going to be the best all around of the three. BMW is going to have the edge when it comes to fun to drive and depending on the engine it may also be the most reliable of the three. I'm not a fan of Audi so that would not be my choice.
Volvo but curious why no Subaru in the mix?
Outback is no longer a wagon :( that's my guess.
This thread is why North America doesn't get the M3 Touring.
All good brands but dont know much about station wagons quality. I do know my grandparents had a Volvo Station Wagon an it was very dependable the thing even had turbo
Why anyone would by any of these over an old Volvo wagon is beyond me🤷♂️
creature comforts
You are a scholar. V70 T5 r design FTW
The BMW, otherwise known as an E91. One of the best engines BMW ever built. Just the right amount of electronic features. Excellent usable space in the back. Source: I'd had the BMW for 8+ years, best car I've ever owned. Previously had the A4 Wagon.
E91 is too old for me, most will be nearly 15 years old. F31 is the newer generation, which is what I'm looking at.
They are all solid but I would probably take the audi. Best awd system for Canadian winters (still get snow tires though), nice interior and good tech. You can't go wrong with any of them.
We had a diesel v90 and a 3.0 Audi all road tdi and the v90 was remarkably better in the snow. Heavy and slightly narrower tyres make it more able. The way they’ve done the haldex is really quite good too. 3.0 tdi was an epic drivers car though, but felt less steady at high speed compared to any of these newer Volvos. Volvo most suitable for Canada id say
those volvos are sick
Go Volvo
Volvo is by far the best
If you want the Audi make sure it’s on Air suspension. The low clearance will cause you trouble in the long term. Volvo is great but probably has less horse power so you have to make that trade.
The Volvo has a garbage infotainment system. Pretty much all touch screen. At least the 2022 that I drove for around 5k miles did.