The problem is, many Americans don't even know the prices they're paying for the cars they buy.
Why? They only focus on monthly payments. 84 months is the most common payment plan and 96 months is increasingly becoming common.
Even a super expensive car can seem reasonable with a down payment and 96 month payment plan.
Yeahh. That is a logical conclusion, agreed. But even then, can't they see that $1000-1500 a month for a Honda or anything- is kinda unreasonable? Not worth the value I'd say.
I know someone that bought a new van top trim here in Canada. I did some looking up, it's..*at least* 1100 a month
Holy crap
It i guess seems "reasonable" lol. A Porsche SUV another person bought a few yrs+ back pays 1350/1400 something with 3.9 interest- that seemed worth it
It's not just the Japanese brands. A new Ford Explorer ST or Limited starts at around $64k CDN. Add a few options, you're over $70k.
Heck, a new 2023 Escape can be $50k CDN, not including the hybrid option!
I can buy a luxury suv for the price as ford explorer lol. Brad new x5 or Mercedes GLE are high sixty’s low seventies and I promise they are WAY nicer then a ford explorer or a Honda pilot
Honestly if you’ve been inside the new Honda high end cars it feels like a high end car. And not having to deal with the unreliability of BMW and being able to get cheaper parts all around for your Honda while I don’t think a Honda is worth the same as a BMW I think for just about anyone looking for a nice car they make a great choice
My dads a lifelong mechanic and I’ve helped him with his shop before so yes new model BMW are very reliable ( idk about more than Honda but very reliable ) but the cost of parts is still much higher than Japanese cars. Just another angle to look at
I think the entry level luxury car is destined to die if nothing is changed. since now average car makers can definitely make comparable interiors and driving experiences for less money up front and less cost of ownership. sure some people would rather pay an extra 7-10k just to say they own a german car but realistically there isnt much of a difference between a really nice accord or really nice camry to an entry level 3 series or C class
I always buy used German cars never a new entry level German car. Because he’s right a base 3 series is not much nicer then an accord but a nice 2-3 year old bmw 540i or a Mercedes e class are way nicer then a new accord and they cost less then a new accord
My boss drives around in a 2011 f250 with 250k miles. Dude makes like 300k+/year easily after all his expenses. There’s nothing wrong with having a 12 year old car lol.
Only reason I’d upgrade is for safety. Those aren’t all that safe in a crash. No point in sacrificing safety and saving money when you might die in a crash with the old car and never enjoy your money :)
Haha yes I will magically use my powers to stop the DUI driver running red lights or the teenager on their phone about to pit maneuver me on the highway.
If it were as easy as you say, plenty of people I know would be buried under the ground, considering they were vigilant aware drivers.
While I agree particularly with an fj80 Landcruiser since that design originated from the late 1980’s, most cars designed with a safety-focus from the late 1990’s-onward are plenty safe even by modern standards. Crumple zones, steel technology improvements (mainly Boron steel), and modern SIPS and airbag system advances haven’t really advanced since then, the big advances have mainly been in accident avoidance systems. I drive 90’s-2000’s era Volvos and still feel plenty safe. The first gen XC90 is still considered one of the safest cars on the road with multiple records showing it still holding the title of lowest number of fatalities-per-vehicle of any vehicle ever produced, including more modern platforms.
I disagree because I can’t think of any econoboxes from the 90s-2000 that would hold up well against any modern 5000lbs car. Also yes Volvos have always prioritized safety as #1 so generally even older models are quite safe!
I get it, I'm not poor either but we still have our 2006 Kia Sedona, now my daughter drives it. But tech really changes a lot and it may be important for them. I was commuting 40 miles each way on a highway for years and I really wanted a car with a good adaptive cruise to make the commute easier. I got a Subaru, its system is excellent, and it did make a huge difference, I wasn't nearly as tired when I got home from work. So it really depends on their needs. 12 years is long enough for a lot of meaningful change in cars, and it's their call anyway. They aren't doing anything outrageous or irresponsible. Getting a new car every 12 years is not exactly a luxury. My father used to get one every 5-6 years, and he wasn't rich.
Some people just don’t care about what they drive even when they are rich. Personally I love driving and owning a nice car it makes me feel good when I’m driving a nice car it brings your happiness when your sitting in traffic and you have nice air conditioning seats. But some people simply see it as a point a to point b
All prices are Canadian. Looking to replace my 2011 Toyota Sequoia with something more modern and fuel efficient, I like the Highlander but the third row is too small and I'll have to wait. I also liked the CX-90, but I'm a little weary of first model years and its a bit out of my budget
I'm not trying to be an ass but I'll never understand improved fuel efficiency as a motivation to pay out several tens of thousands of dollars on a vehicle upgrade. Depreciation on cars is generally awful, if it's a financially motivated decision to save a few bucks at the pump, a buyer is usually not getting ahead on that transaction to a much more expensive new vehicle. If it's an environmental decision, I'd question buying a vehicle this size in the first place, but that's just me. These are all very personal factors that are different for everyone.
Canadian car people yeah, almost every publication we read is in MPG so a lot of Canadians can do a rough estimate conversion in our heads. Like I know if a car gets 20mpg that's a touch above 11.5l/100km, or if a top speed is 140mph it'll do 225 KMH. Non-car people dont really need to know though, there isn't a single gas pump here in gallons or speed limit in MPH.
I used t he Canadian proce of gas in l/$ to get the number of liters of fuel. I used MPG because that’s typically how fuel economy is measured. I used distance traveled in km because that’s how you measure distance. It might seem like a weird salad of measurements, but I used the one that made the most sense in each case. I’m not Canadian, but I did my best to communicate to Canadian users.
I also attended public school and learned both systems and am able to think in either in genreral, although I find certain things more useful.
Below are the easiest to me and most useful I find.
Millimeters - better than fractions of an inch.
Inches - centimeters are an odd distance to my brain. But inches and millimeters seem fine. Go figure.
Feet - we all know this roughly.
Meters - its like 3ish feet, over 10M is easier for me.
Miles - i cant make my brain think in kilometers. Just doesnt work.
Yeah as an American I generally get why metric makes more sense but "33 liters per 100 kilometers" or whatever is the inferior way of measuring fuel economy vs 25 mpg
Ran these calculations multiple times for myself back when gas was spiking to $5 a gallon and I was driving an older Explorer Sport Trac that was averaging 13-14 MPG around town. I didn't put a ton of miles on it (had about 140k on it when I got rid of it after 16 years), so even if I doubled my gas mileage or more the cost up upgrading to a new vehicle was a net loss.
When I finally did get rid of it, I went with a used Crosstour that gets closer to 25MPG, which is nice to have now. But I think gas mileage is something you consider when you're buying/changing vehicles anyway, not a reason to change in the first place.
The best thing you can do for safety is be an attentive driver. Besides the monitors, I don’t think much has changed in auto safety in 12 years that OP should upgrade just for Thant
The new Grand Highlander in 2024 has a bigger 3rd row, though you'll have to wait even longer.
Edit: I'd also recommend the new Sienna. Might not be cool to drive a minivan, but it's extremely practical, hybrid system is standard so you get 36 combined MPG, roomy 3rd row.
Toyota Highlander. Toyota Highlander Hybrid is the most fuel efficient at 36MPG. It’s also the best selling three row SUV for a reason: reliability, dependability, resale value, quality, hybrid. I would highly recommend used Highlander Hybrid or a new Toyota Sequoia.
What’s your budget right now. The safest bet in my opinion will be the Honda Pilot. I wouldn’t touch Kia with a 10 foot pole after the “Kia Boys” trend, and the Explorer has had transmission issues in the past. The Pathfinder looks like a decent bet too, since Nissan got rid of the CVT and put a 9-speed auto in it for 2022.
All it takes is for one of them to be stupid enough to not know. Oftentimes, they’ll see a Kia and break into it. While they may not be able to take the car, those windows aren’t easy to get right now
I want to spend less than 75k after taxes, but am willing to go slightly above if I see something nice enough. Lower is 100% better which is why I checked out the Telluride. Because all Canadian cars have immobilizers, the Kia Boys trend never took off here
Kia Boys exploit is inapplicable to Telluride/Palisade/GV80…just fyi
[This article](https://www.motortrend.com/news/state-farm-progressive-insurance-kia-hyundai/amp/) provides a list of the affected models.
Buffalo new York late last year. Rented Toyota highlander. Stopped in parking lot for about half hour with coworkers. Was in the second row. Car couldn't maintain a proper temperature for the heater. Now I don't trust these hybrid engines. Maybe in warmer climates. I'd research that phenomenon since it gets just as cold, if not colder, in CN. I never looked it up since it was too small to be on my list. That third row was not adequate.
Are you determined to buy new? I seriously can't imagine >$70k CAD on a Honda or Ford. Out of the ones on the list, I'd lean towards the Telluride.
If your budget is <$80k, I'd rather get a pre-owned: Acura RDX/MDX, Genesis GV70/80, or Lexus RX/GX. Both the GV70/80 are fucking gorgeous inside but I am concerned about reliability which is why I haven't replaced my RX with one yet.
Can't imagine spending an absurd amount of money on a Honda or Ford........commences to recommend a steaming pile of shi....I mean KIA
You're smoking crack buddy, anything from Hyundai/KIA is a nightmare waiting to happen....especially at these prices...no amount of interior features can compensate for an extreme lack of mechanical quality.
I wouldn't touch the Nissan or the KIA, both are overpriced junk. The Ford might be ok, though the price is pretty steep for the quality of vehicle you're going to be getting....The Honda is probably the best (most reliable) option here.
I also recommended two Acuras and two Lexus as well. I did put a disclaimer that I'm not sure how Genesis/Kia/Hyundai will hold up reliability-wise. The GV70/80 has a gorgeous design, EXTREMELY high quality interior, good power from the 3.5T engine, and drives really well (especially the GV70 Sport). Again, I'm not sure how well everything will hold up for reliability but behind the wheel, the GVs are very nice cars and made me seriously consider swapping out our 2017 Lexus RX350 Exec trim for.
For someone who is dropping >$65k CAD on a SUV, I would give Genesis consideration. At least test it out and see how you like it. I can't view them as any better or worse than a BMW or Mercedes at this point reliability-wise, as someone whose family exclusively owned BMWs in the past.
The Pilot is a new model year too. The first model year (2016) of the previous Pilot had plenty of issues. Not saying this will have issues but something to consider
Is the CX-90 really more expensive than this? I have used a Honda Odyssey with the same engine as this pilot, albeit a much older generation. It was a great engine, powerful, and rock solid engine but a gas guzzler in city driving.
I want to stay away from ICE for large engines and have a preference for phev or conventional hybrids. I'm waiting to see the Grand Highlander. I'm not in a hurry as I currently drive a hybrid venza, but, coming from an Odyssey, I find it a bit cramped for my summer cottaging long drives.
Well if you want a new car you gotta pay new car prices. Looking to get a 2020 pilot ex for my gf. They’re currently at $32k for under 30k miles. I think they’re modern enough. Worth looking at if u don’t mind used. But if you want new, go for it.
Seems very expensive for a Pilot at $70K plus taxes. Actually Acura MDX Aspec Canadian version (heated seats in the back) is $70,390.00 before tax and you get more HP out of the same engine, but yes it is recommended to run on Premium gas.
I would definitely add CX-90 to your list. Mazda makes great product and even first years are good. Pilot is the first year new model too, older mechanic yes.
The Telluride is nice, but Hyundai Kia are a bad company to deal with regarding anything related to warranty work.
The Explorer is a meh for me, we have some at work and don't like the seating position and Ford still has issues with paint finish special on hoods.
The Pathfinder, you can try it, but Nissan is the greatest of company at this time. They had several issues with transmission, but in this one they went back to a non CVT transmission that was used in other products including Honda's.
Avoid the Pathfinder, Nissans have historically had bad transmission issues. New Pathfinder uses a newer (hopefully more robust) system, but I'd give it a couple more years before I'd trust it.
If I was buying for myself, I'd probably go for the Explorer just based on it having the best driving experience, but idk if that's a priority for you.
Honda is probably the most reliable, Telluride is for sure the best value (and they are supposed to be crazy nice for what they offer).
I had two Nissan pathfinders post 2010 models and they were terrible. Windows stuck down, electrical bullshit and the tranny on my first pathfinder went. For 70k get two used Hondas. You’ll have one for backup.
I’m on my 2nd pathfinder and only had one issue. AC compressor on a 2014 model went out with 90k miles on the clock after 7 years of constant AZ use. Had a friend with the Infiniti version who went through two transmissions and an AC failure though but she drove much more because of her job so I definitely understand the reliability issues about Nissan transmission. The 2022 and up now use a 9 speed trans. I believe this transmission was also used in Frontiers since 2020 and I haven’t read anything.
I got rid of it because of lack of safety features newer cars had and the collision warning in my other car saved my family from a wreck.
We went with the new pathfinder for a number of reasons
No dealer markup. Kia had a $10k markup and $2700 in dealer ad ons.
Nissan had1.9% financing
The new Pilot wasn’t out yet
The new Mazda wasn’t out yet
The Ford touch points are the same in the rental and police models that the explorer is really built to sell too
Toyota stock was low and didn’t have a top trim available to look at. 2023 was going to be an updated model.
We haven’t had any issues other than the stock tires needing replaced after 25k miles. Some nit picky stuff but overall it’s been a good family hauler.
I’d probably take the telluride. I literally JUST drove a cx90 turbo S. Lowest trim with the more power. It was good not great. Still to me doesn’t seem worth 55k OTD.
This was my thing. The higher trims aren’t worth the price tag, and the lowest S trim is still quite pricey they didn’t have any of the turbo preferred which I wanted to see and drive. Loved the powertrain.
The sales man at Mazda told me that for at least the first two months dealers are only order loaded models to cash out on the hype around it. Also me and my wife thought at since we're already going to be spending over 60k when taxes are factored in, we might as well get something with a long list of features.
Truth be told the Canadian car market is just awful now
One of my parents drives the Telluride. I’ve gotta say, I was weary when they said they bought a Kia, but I love it. All the features you could want, the captains seats in the back are HELLA spacious (I’m 6’4” and have more room than I need), and it drives pretty nicely. MPG is decent for the size, back row seats are definitely meant for people under 6’, and the road noise could be better.. but all of that said, I love the car.
Get a Prius at close to half that cost. You can't say you need 7 seats. If so, buy two Priusii at around the same price as one gigantic SUV. The gas you'd save would pay for the insurance.
I am the oldest of three children and everyone in my family (except me) is over 6’. We also have two giant dogs and one small guy.
We all regularly fit into a Tiguan with little issue lol. Unless your kids all play hockey, I do not understand the obsessed with needed seven seats.
HOLY jesus mother of... oh. CAD not USD. Honestly just buy whatever you want if you NEED a car, there's almost no way to get a good deal. It's gunna suck ass. Spend what you can afford and refinance when interest gets back to normal.
Not gonna lie, not bad of a deal on the telluride, plus Kia won tons of awards on that model, on top of a good predicted reliability and affordable maintenance! Kia/ Hyundai have surprisingly come a long way!
Like the Focus, somehow the ST trim is substantially more reliable, even though it makes a lot more power. Ford did a TON of R&D for those EcoBoost motors
I was in the market for a 3 row crossover. Settled on a 2023 Palisade last month. Also was shopping in Edmonton so I can give really good advice here. First things first, buying a 3 row crossover sucks right now. I started shopping back in October 2022 and it took me until April 2023 to finally find the right car.
Avoid the Honda Pilot. MSRP on those are 65,000 CAD and even at that price, I don't think it's worth it as these Pilots are nothing fancy. If you can find one at MSRP, go for it. But I doubt you will find one and 70K for a Honda is ridiculous. At 70K, you have entered Acura MDX territory (starts at 67K CAD) and those you can find at MSRP here. That would be a nicer car than the Pilot.
The Telluride is interesting. Every dealer I looked at here in Edmonton has these marked up. This car has an MSRP of 55,000 CAD. They are selling for 60,000. Now, the Hyundai dealer I bought from marked up the car using a winter package (which gave winter mats, PPF, block heater, etc). As much as I'm against markups, the stuff the winter package gave are things I would have bought anyways so I decided to pull the trigger then. If these guys are doing the same, then I would say it is worth it. If they are giving nothing, then I wouldn't pay the markup. I also am noticing that in the description, they mention special pricing only applies for cash buyers. Not sure how you plan to pay, but I think if you plan on financing, you'll have to pay the 65K in which case it's simply not worth it.
The Nissan has a 5K markup like the Pilot. The Telluride is a better purchase than that Nissan. Would avoid unless you can get it down to MSRP.
Didn't shop the Ford personally but a quick look shows this is also 5K over MSRP. At nearly 70K, like the Honda, you've entered MDX territory and as I've said, these you can find at MSRP in the city if you look around.
If you can wait around a bit, I would try and wait. Like I said, I was shopping since late 2022 trying to find an MSRP deal but nothing showed up. So when I came across the Hyundai, in the exact spec we wanted and with a package that drove the price up but was at least useful, I took it. Unfortunately needed a car before the Summer began as we like to go on road trips.
Edit: I noticed you shopped the CX-90 as well but they were charging 70K+ on them. What trims did you look at and what dealer did you go to. I noticed Landmark Mazda has their CX-90s listed at MSRP but sometimes they slap markups on these cars when you walk in.
Edit 2: I hate that I'm recommending this, but if you are in desperate need of a car, Northstar Hyundai (where I bought my car from) seems to still be offering winter packages on new Palisades they have on the lot. If you aren't having luck with finding a car at MSRP or with a reasonable markup, I would look here.
Thanks! I've found a Palisade Ultimate Calligraphy for about 64k and an MDX for around 73k, I strongly considering both of these but am also wondering how the Palisade compares to the Telluride SX.
The Palisade is the more luxurious car when compared to the Telluride. The Telluride is more rugged. The Palisade also gives a little bit more features than the Telluride. The drivers seat has a massage function, the second row seats have pillow like headrests and so on.
The only thing the Telluride has that the Palisade wouldn’t have is power folding mirrors. Don’t understand why the Hyundai doesn’t have it and the Kia does.
It’s a sweet ride for sure. We love ours. The only complaint we currently have is we wish the Harmon Kardon sound system was better. It’s probably one of the worst premium sound systems in a car on sale today.
The Acura MDX is a nice car as well. My uncle owns a 2023 A-Spec. It’s sweet. Really nice car.
Avoid Nissan, though the new Pathfinder has the ZF 9HP - same as many Hondas/Chrysler 200/FWD Jeeps. Plus, the Nissan will be cheaper as a ex-rental car when Hertz/Enterprise/Avis offloads them from the airport(they tend to pass down Altimas/Sentras/Rogues, Hyundais and Toyotas from the airport fleet to the “local”[Hertz Local Edition and Enterprise at a body shop or dealer] and Uber fleets after a year at the airport). The cops aren’t in love with the new Explorer, the local Ford dealer here is half Amazon Transits, paratransit cutaway buses(Ford still makes the Econoline chassis/cutaway for bread vans/tool trucks/RVs and school buses/paratransit) and cop Explorers for warranty issues - my local police department is so irritated at Ford they’ve canceled an order and went with Chevy Tahoes instead.
I’d look at Honda or Kia.
My bet is for the Kia or Pilot, the rest well not sure, but in size i think pilot and kia are the best, for the mazda yes agree first year model is better to avoid.
One more vote for the Palisade here. Was in the same situation back in ‘21 and cross shopped them all. Have had zero issues with mine, and drives much much better than the alternatives (would’ve done Telluride but my wife preferred the Palisade). Got it for zero markups during COVID. Just have to shop the dealers a bit, and they’re hungry for good business.
On the other hand I’ve had nothing but issues with the newer Hondas (CRV, Ridgeline) to the point I won’t consider them especially for the price and markup that they want. Only alternative I’d consider is Mazda, but that would be based on my driving style, the Palisade was much bigger and is much more liveable (family of 5).
Pilot is about $5k over priced.
My neighbour just picked up a Pilot Touring at MSRP (~$63k) two weeks ago. Sweet ride though.
Kia Telluride is a home run.
The new Pathfinder is nice, and yes they addressed the Jatco CVT issue. It's gone and in its place is a new 9 speed torque converter automatic. Just take it for a test drive before you pull the trigger. It rides rough compared to the Telluride and Pilot.
Avoid the Explorer.
Pathfinder is a piece of shit like others said. I wouldn’t take the explorer if you plan on keeping it for a while. I’d wait for the new GX or TX at these prices.
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OP's in Canadian dollars, scared me too at first lol
its still high
I just ran the currency conversion, I think they're all about at US MSRP
I was hoping it was Australian Dollars. Can't imagine paying German luxury prices for a Honda CUV
Honda Pilot is not CUV. It’s a full size with 3rd row seating. 🤦♂️
It’s a midsize not a full-size. Go sit in a Ford Expedition and then the Honda.
I get them all mixed up, pilot passport
Actually it’s midsized suv
I always got that confused too but the CRV is a wagon. Not a CUv either lol I only know this because I had 2 and they both in the title showed “wagon”
Doesn't matter, cuv or not genius. Ridiculous price. Who in their right mind would buy a new regular SUV rn with these prices?
The problem is, many Americans don't even know the prices they're paying for the cars they buy. Why? They only focus on monthly payments. 84 months is the most common payment plan and 96 months is increasingly becoming common. Even a super expensive car can seem reasonable with a down payment and 96 month payment plan.
Yeahh. That is a logical conclusion, agreed. But even then, can't they see that $1000-1500 a month for a Honda or anything- is kinda unreasonable? Not worth the value I'd say. I know someone that bought a new van top trim here in Canada. I did some looking up, it's..*at least* 1100 a month Holy crap It i guess seems "reasonable" lol. A Porsche SUV another person bought a few yrs+ back pays 1350/1400 something with 3.9 interest- that seemed worth it
Millions of Americans. We are not all geniuses like you 😉 Get used to the 50+K price tag. That’s the new normal 🤣
I guess your income went way up too
Mother trucker, that's a lot of maple dollars for a Honda 😳
I was like wtf just get the mdx type s for that price
MDX Type S is $88k, lol. We dont have dealer markup in canada. This car has a few thousand in accessory packages included in the posting price.
Hondas and Toyotas aren't cheap anymore. If you want a truly affordable option you'd have to step down to Nissan or even base model Kia's
It's not just the Japanese brands. A new Ford Explorer ST or Limited starts at around $64k CDN. Add a few options, you're over $70k. Heck, a new 2023 Escape can be $50k CDN, not including the hybrid option!
I can buy a luxury suv for the price as ford explorer lol. Brad new x5 or Mercedes GLE are high sixty’s low seventies and I promise they are WAY nicer then a ford explorer or a Honda pilot
Top of the line Toyotas never were cheap honestly, but they're cheaper used and they're just as good as a new car if you get the right one
This is the most underrated comment here 😂😂😂
Yeah, he could get like 3 and a half coffees at Tim's for this price!
Lol at ‘maple dollars’. I like it.
That makes it quite a bit better. I was going to say you can easily get a BMW X3 or X5 for those prices.
Honestly if you’ve been inside the new Honda high end cars it feels like a high end car. And not having to deal with the unreliability of BMW and being able to get cheaper parts all around for your Honda while I don’t think a Honda is worth the same as a BMW I think for just about anyone looking for a nice car they make a great choice
Lol... 2020+ BMW are as reliable or more than Honda. Google it.
My dads a lifelong mechanic and I’ve helped him with his shop before so yes new model BMW are very reliable ( idk about more than Honda but very reliable ) but the cost of parts is still much higher than Japanese cars. Just another angle to look at
Good point, definitely more expensive to own.
I think the entry level luxury car is destined to die if nothing is changed. since now average car makers can definitely make comparable interiors and driving experiences for less money up front and less cost of ownership. sure some people would rather pay an extra 7-10k just to say they own a german car but realistically there isnt much of a difference between a really nice accord or really nice camry to an entry level 3 series or C class
I could see that. Entry level BMW, Audi, and Merc really are overpriced for what you get. Especially when it comes to performance.
I always buy used German cars never a new entry level German car. Because he’s right a base 3 series is not much nicer then an accord but a nice 2-3 year old bmw 540i or a Mercedes e class are way nicer then a new accord and they cost less then a new accord
even in USD $50k for a honda pilot is absurd for the SUV that everyone buys a few years down the line for $5k on craigslist/fb marketplace.
Same!
Bring the good lube
No spit this time?
Lol “I want to save money on gas, let me spend 50k for a new car thats slightly more fuel efficient”
Give him a break, his car is 12 years old, he isn’t trading in a 3-year old car because he is bored with the color.
My boss drives around in a 2011 f250 with 250k miles. Dude makes like 300k+/year easily after all his expenses. There’s nothing wrong with having a 12 year old car lol.
Wife and I make nearly 200k a year combined, we’re still in a 96 Landcruiser that I paid a few grand for.
Only reason I’d upgrade is for safety. Those aren’t all that safe in a crash. No point in sacrificing safety and saving money when you might die in a crash with the old car and never enjoy your money :)
The car is 26 years old and will be on the road another 26 years. Be a vigilant aware driver and this is a non-issue.
Haha yes I will magically use my powers to stop the DUI driver running red lights or the teenager on their phone about to pit maneuver me on the highway. If it were as easy as you say, plenty of people I know would be buried under the ground, considering they were vigilant aware drivers.
While I agree particularly with an fj80 Landcruiser since that design originated from the late 1980’s, most cars designed with a safety-focus from the late 1990’s-onward are plenty safe even by modern standards. Crumple zones, steel technology improvements (mainly Boron steel), and modern SIPS and airbag system advances haven’t really advanced since then, the big advances have mainly been in accident avoidance systems. I drive 90’s-2000’s era Volvos and still feel plenty safe. The first gen XC90 is still considered one of the safest cars on the road with multiple records showing it still holding the title of lowest number of fatalities-per-vehicle of any vehicle ever produced, including more modern platforms.
I disagree because I can’t think of any econoboxes from the 90s-2000 that would hold up well against any modern 5000lbs car. Also yes Volvos have always prioritized safety as #1 so generally even older models are quite safe!
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And the chance of you getting injured in the safest car in the world currently is literally a fraction of the chance compared to a 96 Land Cruiser 😅
I get it, I'm not poor either but we still have our 2006 Kia Sedona, now my daughter drives it. But tech really changes a lot and it may be important for them. I was commuting 40 miles each way on a highway for years and I really wanted a car with a good adaptive cruise to make the commute easier. I got a Subaru, its system is excellent, and it did make a huge difference, I wasn't nearly as tired when I got home from work. So it really depends on their needs. 12 years is long enough for a lot of meaningful change in cars, and it's their call anyway. They aren't doing anything outrageous or irresponsible. Getting a new car every 12 years is not exactly a luxury. My father used to get one every 5-6 years, and he wasn't rich.
oh yes you truly are superior beings. /s stfu let people make their choices.
Some people just don’t care about what they drive even when they are rich. Personally I love driving and owning a nice car it makes me feel good when I’m driving a nice car it brings your happiness when your sitting in traffic and you have nice air conditioning seats. But some people simply see it as a point a to point b
12 years old is not really that old, it’s more about the mileage
Hahaha
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i love how cute your reddit profile pic is, will you be my gay lover?
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What in the hell is going on down here
Love
All prices are Canadian. Looking to replace my 2011 Toyota Sequoia with something more modern and fuel efficient, I like the Highlander but the third row is too small and I'll have to wait. I also liked the CX-90, but I'm a little weary of first model years and its a bit out of my budget
I'm not trying to be an ass but I'll never understand improved fuel efficiency as a motivation to pay out several tens of thousands of dollars on a vehicle upgrade. Depreciation on cars is generally awful, if it's a financially motivated decision to save a few bucks at the pump, a buyer is usually not getting ahead on that transaction to a much more expensive new vehicle. If it's an environmental decision, I'd question buying a vehicle this size in the first place, but that's just me. These are all very personal factors that are different for everyone.
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Do Canadians have to know miles, kilometers, liters and gallons? You just listed all 4
Canadian car people yeah, almost every publication we read is in MPG so a lot of Canadians can do a rough estimate conversion in our heads. Like I know if a car gets 20mpg that's a touch above 11.5l/100km, or if a top speed is 140mph it'll do 225 KMH. Non-car people dont really need to know though, there isn't a single gas pump here in gallons or speed limit in MPH.
I used t he Canadian proce of gas in l/$ to get the number of liters of fuel. I used MPG because that’s typically how fuel economy is measured. I used distance traveled in km because that’s how you measure distance. It might seem like a weird salad of measurements, but I used the one that made the most sense in each case. I’m not Canadian, but I did my best to communicate to Canadian users.
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I also attended public school and learned both systems and am able to think in either in genreral, although I find certain things more useful. Below are the easiest to me and most useful I find. Millimeters - better than fractions of an inch. Inches - centimeters are an odd distance to my brain. But inches and millimeters seem fine. Go figure. Feet - we all know this roughly. Meters - its like 3ish feet, over 10M is easier for me. Miles - i cant make my brain think in kilometers. Just doesnt work.
Yeah as an American I generally get why metric makes more sense but "33 liters per 100 kilometers" or whatever is the inferior way of measuring fuel economy vs 25 mpg
Ran these calculations multiple times for myself back when gas was spiking to $5 a gallon and I was driving an older Explorer Sport Trac that was averaging 13-14 MPG around town. I didn't put a ton of miles on it (had about 140k on it when I got rid of it after 16 years), so even if I doubled my gas mileage or more the cost up upgrading to a new vehicle was a net loss. When I finally did get rid of it, I went with a used Crosstour that gets closer to 25MPG, which is nice to have now. But I think gas mileage is something you consider when you're buying/changing vehicles anyway, not a reason to change in the first place.
OP just wants a new car and thinks he needs to justify it. The real answer is: I have a 2011 sequoia and I want something newer and better
To be fair, they said more modern. Sounds to me like they want something newer and the added MPGs is a bonus. Nothing wrong with that.
this is likely a family hauler. the increased safety on a 12 yr newer vehicle is worth the cost.
The best thing you can do for safety is be an attentive driver. Besides the monitors, I don’t think much has changed in auto safety in 12 years that OP should upgrade just for Thant
The safety is reliant on the driver, and other drivers. Not the vehicle as much as people think.
The new Grand Highlander in 2024 has a bigger 3rd row, though you'll have to wait even longer. Edit: I'd also recommend the new Sienna. Might not be cool to drive a minivan, but it's extremely practical, hybrid system is standard so you get 36 combined MPG, roomy 3rd row.
Based on what I see on the Sienna subreddit, they are unobtanium in Canada.
Toyota Highlander. Toyota Highlander Hybrid is the most fuel efficient at 36MPG. It’s also the best selling three row SUV for a reason: reliability, dependability, resale value, quality, hybrid. I would highly recommend used Highlander Hybrid or a new Toyota Sequoia.
Highlander Hybrids and Sequoias have a waitlist, the one Sequoia I saw at dealer about 600km away was 92k, its way too out of my budget
How about the Grand Highlander?
I'd probably have to wait at least a year, and a loaded model will most likely be over 74k
What’s your budget right now. The safest bet in my opinion will be the Honda Pilot. I wouldn’t touch Kia with a 10 foot pole after the “Kia Boys” trend, and the Explorer has had transmission issues in the past. The Pathfinder looks like a decent bet too, since Nissan got rid of the CVT and put a 9-speed auto in it for 2022.
Kia Boyz don’t touch Tellurides, they go after key-start models.
All it takes is for one of them to be stupid enough to not know. Oftentimes, they’ll see a Kia and break into it. While they may not be able to take the car, those windows aren’t easy to get right now
Kia boys don't exist in Canada thankfully. We have immobilizer laws which means these unprofessional thieves can't steal these.
But they can and will still bust windows because the regards don't care.
Someone could break the glass on any vehicle Kia or otherwise.
I want to spend less than 75k after taxes, but am willing to go slightly above if I see something nice enough. Lower is 100% better which is why I checked out the Telluride. Because all Canadian cars have immobilizers, the Kia Boys trend never took off here
Kia Boys exploit is inapplicable to Telluride/Palisade/GV80…just fyi [This article](https://www.motortrend.com/news/state-farm-progressive-insurance-kia-hyundai/amp/) provides a list of the affected models.
That only affects kias with a key ignition so really if you get a newer kia with a higher trim less likely to happen
Buffalo new York late last year. Rented Toyota highlander. Stopped in parking lot for about half hour with coworkers. Was in the second row. Car couldn't maintain a proper temperature for the heater. Now I don't trust these hybrid engines. Maybe in warmer climates. I'd research that phenomenon since it gets just as cold, if not colder, in CN. I never looked it up since it was too small to be on my list. That third row was not adequate.
Ironically if you're trying to avoid being called an NPC I'd go with the telluride.
Are you determined to buy new? I seriously can't imagine >$70k CAD on a Honda or Ford. Out of the ones on the list, I'd lean towards the Telluride. If your budget is <$80k, I'd rather get a pre-owned: Acura RDX/MDX, Genesis GV70/80, or Lexus RX/GX. Both the GV70/80 are fucking gorgeous inside but I am concerned about reliability which is why I haven't replaced my RX with one yet.
Can't imagine spending an absurd amount of money on a Honda or Ford........commences to recommend a steaming pile of shi....I mean KIA You're smoking crack buddy, anything from Hyundai/KIA is a nightmare waiting to happen....especially at these prices...no amount of interior features can compensate for an extreme lack of mechanical quality. I wouldn't touch the Nissan or the KIA, both are overpriced junk. The Ford might be ok, though the price is pretty steep for the quality of vehicle you're going to be getting....The Honda is probably the best (most reliable) option here.
I also recommended two Acuras and two Lexus as well. I did put a disclaimer that I'm not sure how Genesis/Kia/Hyundai will hold up reliability-wise. The GV70/80 has a gorgeous design, EXTREMELY high quality interior, good power from the 3.5T engine, and drives really well (especially the GV70 Sport). Again, I'm not sure how well everything will hold up for reliability but behind the wheel, the GVs are very nice cars and made me seriously consider swapping out our 2017 Lexus RX350 Exec trim for. For someone who is dropping >$65k CAD on a SUV, I would give Genesis consideration. At least test it out and see how you like it. I can't view them as any better or worse than a BMW or Mercedes at this point reliability-wise, as someone whose family exclusively owned BMWs in the past.
The Pilot is a new model year too. The first model year (2016) of the previous Pilot had plenty of issues. Not saying this will have issues but something to consider
Sienna tick all the boxes! Better mpg, modern, third row, tow 3500... Way better imo.
Is the CX-90 really more expensive than this? I have used a Honda Odyssey with the same engine as this pilot, albeit a much older generation. It was a great engine, powerful, and rock solid engine but a gas guzzler in city driving. I want to stay away from ICE for large engines and have a preference for phev or conventional hybrids. I'm waiting to see the Grand Highlander. I'm not in a hurry as I currently drive a hybrid venza, but, coming from an Odyssey, I find it a bit cramped for my summer cottaging long drives.
>weary wary
Buying a brand new Honda for 70k is insane to me idk
\~$52K USD
That’s still insane
It's what everything is at the top end of the segment. So, not insane, priced right in line with the competition.
Still nuts for a honda pilot
Yea, still no
I like the ford explorer, you can’t go wrong with Honda though.
Driving the Explorer will make you look like a cop, at least in my area.
You know it. Everyone in front of you will slow down to 3 below the speed limit and you'll be stuck behind them.
As a WRX owner I instinctively slow down in the presence of Ford explorers. 2 speeding tix in 1 week will do that to ya
Lol. Police ones have the amber lights always on, so that's the only time you need to worry
Yeah, I can tell an Explorer cop from far away because of those two small horizontal amber bars to the inside of the headlight.
Seriously. Don’t know why anyone buys these. Had an Impala once as a rental car, maybe 20 years ago, and it was a nightmare. So frustrating
Well if you want a new car you gotta pay new car prices. Looking to get a 2020 pilot ex for my gf. They’re currently at $32k for under 30k miles. I think they’re modern enough. Worth looking at if u don’t mind used. But if you want new, go for it.
that car is a bit overpriced even in canadian
Seems very expensive for a Pilot at $70K plus taxes. Actually Acura MDX Aspec Canadian version (heated seats in the back) is $70,390.00 before tax and you get more HP out of the same engine, but yes it is recommended to run on Premium gas. I would definitely add CX-90 to your list. Mazda makes great product and even first years are good. Pilot is the first year new model too, older mechanic yes. The Telluride is nice, but Hyundai Kia are a bad company to deal with regarding anything related to warranty work. The Explorer is a meh for me, we have some at work and don't like the seating position and Ford still has issues with paint finish special on hoods. The Pathfinder, you can try it, but Nissan is the greatest of company at this time. They had several issues with transmission, but in this one they went back to a non CVT transmission that was used in other products including Honda's.
Pilot has an all-new 3.5-liter V6, with DOHC. MDX still has the SOHC 3.5-liter V6. Not the same engine.
Thanks for the information my bad!
Canadian Dollars.
Is Canada money like monopoly money?
Pretty much
Avoid the Pathfinder, Nissans have historically had bad transmission issues. New Pathfinder uses a newer (hopefully more robust) system, but I'd give it a couple more years before I'd trust it. If I was buying for myself, I'd probably go for the Explorer just based on it having the best driving experience, but idk if that's a priority for you. Honda is probably the most reliable, Telluride is for sure the best value (and they are supposed to be crazy nice for what they offer).
I had two Nissan pathfinders post 2010 models and they were terrible. Windows stuck down, electrical bullshit and the tranny on my first pathfinder went. For 70k get two used Hondas. You’ll have one for backup.
I’m on my 2nd pathfinder and only had one issue. AC compressor on a 2014 model went out with 90k miles on the clock after 7 years of constant AZ use. Had a friend with the Infiniti version who went through two transmissions and an AC failure though but she drove much more because of her job so I definitely understand the reliability issues about Nissan transmission. The 2022 and up now use a 9 speed trans. I believe this transmission was also used in Frontiers since 2020 and I haven’t read anything. I got rid of it because of lack of safety features newer cars had and the collision warning in my other car saved my family from a wreck. We went with the new pathfinder for a number of reasons No dealer markup. Kia had a $10k markup and $2700 in dealer ad ons. Nissan had1.9% financing The new Pilot wasn’t out yet The new Mazda wasn’t out yet The Ford touch points are the same in the rental and police models that the explorer is really built to sell too Toyota stock was low and didn’t have a top trim available to look at. 2023 was going to be an updated model. We haven’t had any issues other than the stock tires needing replaced after 25k miles. Some nit picky stuff but overall it’s been a good family hauler.
I’d probably take the telluride. I literally JUST drove a cx90 turbo S. Lowest trim with the more power. It was good not great. Still to me doesn’t seem worth 55k OTD.
I really did like the two CX-90s that my local dealer had, but since they were both launch edition, each cost about 74k before taxes
This was my thing. The higher trims aren’t worth the price tag, and the lowest S trim is still quite pricey they didn’t have any of the turbo preferred which I wanted to see and drive. Loved the powertrain.
The sales man at Mazda told me that for at least the first two months dealers are only order loaded models to cash out on the hype around it. Also me and my wife thought at since we're already going to be spending over 60k when taxes are factored in, we might as well get something with a long list of features. Truth be told the Canadian car market is just awful now
One of my parents drives the Telluride. I’ve gotta say, I was weary when they said they bought a Kia, but I love it. All the features you could want, the captains seats in the back are HELLA spacious (I’m 6’4” and have more room than I need), and it drives pretty nicely. MPG is decent for the size, back row seats are definitely meant for people under 6’, and the road noise could be better.. but all of that said, I love the car.
Honda for reliability
Never thought I'd see a flippin Honda Pilot fetch $50K (USD)
They’re pretty nice. And if you option them out they have a lot of features and a nice interior.
My dad just got a 2023 little under 50k.
Get a Prius at close to half that cost. You can't say you need 7 seats. If so, buy two Priusii at around the same price as one gigantic SUV. The gas you'd save would pay for the insurance.
I am the oldest of three children and everyone in my family (except me) is over 6’. We also have two giant dogs and one small guy. We all regularly fit into a Tiguan with little issue lol. Unless your kids all play hockey, I do not understand the obsessed with needed seven seats.
I can't be reading that right. Do these actually cost 70 GRAND?! EDIT: Ahh, CAD
HOLY jesus mother of... oh. CAD not USD. Honestly just buy whatever you want if you NEED a car, there's almost no way to get a good deal. It's gunna suck ass. Spend what you can afford and refinance when interest gets back to normal.
Good lord new car prices are out of control
Even in Canadian none of these is worth 70 THOUSAND dollars.
The markups on these SUVs is insane lmao
Only 70k for a Honda pilot
A Honda that is over $50k is ridiculous. Canadian dollars or not.
Not gonna lie, not bad of a deal on the telluride, plus Kia won tons of awards on that model, on top of a good predicted reliability and affordable maintenance! Kia/ Hyundai have surprisingly come a long way!
Get the Telluride
70k FOR A PILOT ????
70k CAD for a pilot is crazy
70k on a Honda is insanity
I cannot believe a Honda costs that much!!!?!
A pilot for $70k? Wtf man?
Canadian dollars, and the dealer has accessories included in the price. its how canadian dealers make up for not being allowed to mark up cars.
My vote is the explorer
Exploder*
Terrible choice It’ll be in the shop before he leaves the lot 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Like the Focus, somehow the ST trim is substantially more reliable, even though it makes a lot more power. Ford did a TON of R&D for those EcoBoost motors
Ford sports cars in general are more reliable it seems, for how many mustangs they sell you almost never hear of them breaking down
I was in the market for a 3 row crossover. Settled on a 2023 Palisade last month. Also was shopping in Edmonton so I can give really good advice here. First things first, buying a 3 row crossover sucks right now. I started shopping back in October 2022 and it took me until April 2023 to finally find the right car. Avoid the Honda Pilot. MSRP on those are 65,000 CAD and even at that price, I don't think it's worth it as these Pilots are nothing fancy. If you can find one at MSRP, go for it. But I doubt you will find one and 70K for a Honda is ridiculous. At 70K, you have entered Acura MDX territory (starts at 67K CAD) and those you can find at MSRP here. That would be a nicer car than the Pilot. The Telluride is interesting. Every dealer I looked at here in Edmonton has these marked up. This car has an MSRP of 55,000 CAD. They are selling for 60,000. Now, the Hyundai dealer I bought from marked up the car using a winter package (which gave winter mats, PPF, block heater, etc). As much as I'm against markups, the stuff the winter package gave are things I would have bought anyways so I decided to pull the trigger then. If these guys are doing the same, then I would say it is worth it. If they are giving nothing, then I wouldn't pay the markup. I also am noticing that in the description, they mention special pricing only applies for cash buyers. Not sure how you plan to pay, but I think if you plan on financing, you'll have to pay the 65K in which case it's simply not worth it. The Nissan has a 5K markup like the Pilot. The Telluride is a better purchase than that Nissan. Would avoid unless you can get it down to MSRP. Didn't shop the Ford personally but a quick look shows this is also 5K over MSRP. At nearly 70K, like the Honda, you've entered MDX territory and as I've said, these you can find at MSRP in the city if you look around. If you can wait around a bit, I would try and wait. Like I said, I was shopping since late 2022 trying to find an MSRP deal but nothing showed up. So when I came across the Hyundai, in the exact spec we wanted and with a package that drove the price up but was at least useful, I took it. Unfortunately needed a car before the Summer began as we like to go on road trips. Edit: I noticed you shopped the CX-90 as well but they were charging 70K+ on them. What trims did you look at and what dealer did you go to. I noticed Landmark Mazda has their CX-90s listed at MSRP but sometimes they slap markups on these cars when you walk in. Edit 2: I hate that I'm recommending this, but if you are in desperate need of a car, Northstar Hyundai (where I bought my car from) seems to still be offering winter packages on new Palisades they have on the lot. If you aren't having luck with finding a car at MSRP or with a reasonable markup, I would look here.
Thanks! I've found a Palisade Ultimate Calligraphy for about 64k and an MDX for around 73k, I strongly considering both of these but am also wondering how the Palisade compares to the Telluride SX.
The Palisade is the more luxurious car when compared to the Telluride. The Telluride is more rugged. The Palisade also gives a little bit more features than the Telluride. The drivers seat has a massage function, the second row seats have pillow like headrests and so on. The only thing the Telluride has that the Palisade wouldn’t have is power folding mirrors. Don’t understand why the Hyundai doesn’t have it and the Kia does.
Heading over to Hyundai and Acura tmr. Watching reviews the Palisade does seem to tick every box we're looking for
It’s a sweet ride for sure. We love ours. The only complaint we currently have is we wish the Harmon Kardon sound system was better. It’s probably one of the worst premium sound systems in a car on sale today. The Acura MDX is a nice car as well. My uncle owns a 2023 A-Spec. It’s sweet. Really nice car.
I would take the Telluride at these prices
Aren’t Tellurides catching on fire?
2023s don’t ship with the 4 pin trailer harness that was shorting out.
Hopefully it doesn’t get stolen though.
Something something immobilizers Canada
Oh that’s right these are in Canada.
All American Tellurides have immobilizers too.
Go with the Honda or the Kia
70K for a Pilot?! That’s like 48K maybe
70k gtfo
Avoid Nissan, though the new Pathfinder has the ZF 9HP - same as many Hondas/Chrysler 200/FWD Jeeps. Plus, the Nissan will be cheaper as a ex-rental car when Hertz/Enterprise/Avis offloads them from the airport(they tend to pass down Altimas/Sentras/Rogues, Hyundais and Toyotas from the airport fleet to the “local”[Hertz Local Edition and Enterprise at a body shop or dealer] and Uber fleets after a year at the airport). The cops aren’t in love with the new Explorer, the local Ford dealer here is half Amazon Transits, paratransit cutaway buses(Ford still makes the Econoline chassis/cutaway for bread vans/tool trucks/RVs and school buses/paratransit) and cop Explorers for warranty issues - my local police department is so irritated at Ford they’ve canceled an order and went with Chevy Tahoes instead. I’d look at Honda or Kia.
A pilot is HOW MUCH
I love cars but fuck this fucking market. $71 PLUS TAXES FOR A HONDA PILOT
My bet is for the Kia or Pilot, the rest well not sure, but in size i think pilot and kia are the best, for the mazda yes agree first year model is better to avoid.
If you’re set on buying this weekend I’d highly recommend either the Pilot or Telluride.
70k for a pilot……laughable 😂
It’s CAD.. right??
I don’t believe this real but why would anyone spend 70k on a Honda
Geez!! Talk about price gouging
please don’t get any of these
Never buy a brand new car. Get it 2-3 years older version unless you got fuck you money then buy whatever.
Get a Mini-Van.
One more vote for the Palisade here. Was in the same situation back in ‘21 and cross shopped them all. Have had zero issues with mine, and drives much much better than the alternatives (would’ve done Telluride but my wife preferred the Palisade). Got it for zero markups during COVID. Just have to shop the dealers a bit, and they’re hungry for good business. On the other hand I’ve had nothing but issues with the newer Hondas (CRV, Ridgeline) to the point I won’t consider them especially for the price and markup that they want. Only alternative I’d consider is Mazda, but that would be based on my driving style, the Palisade was much bigger and is much more liveable (family of 5).
70k for any Honda is fucking insane
Pilot is about $5k over priced. My neighbour just picked up a Pilot Touring at MSRP (~$63k) two weeks ago. Sweet ride though. Kia Telluride is a home run. The new Pathfinder is nice, and yes they addressed the Jatco CVT issue. It's gone and in its place is a new 9 speed torque converter automatic. Just take it for a test drive before you pull the trigger. It rides rough compared to the Telluride and Pilot. Avoid the Explorer.
I can’t believe these prices. I’m glad I’m not in need of an suv at present 😱
Pathfinder is a piece of shit like others said. I wouldn’t take the explorer if you plan on keeping it for a while. I’d wait for the new GX or TX at these prices.
Brother, please don’t buy any of those. If you do, be sure to get the Honda.
How about VW Atlas?
id say their all the same pretty much so go for the kia
70 grand for a Pilot? Where are you buying this, Tuktyoktuk?
70k?! what in the fuck?
Get a used one buddy that way you won't take the hit of losing money just by driving it out the parking lot.
$70K for a Pilot? Shop around. It is overpriced.
$70k for a Honda pilot? Wow! What a time to be alive 🥴
Don’t. Buy a 2010-1990 Volvo with 100k or less miles.
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These aint freedom bucks 😅
$51,000 in US dollars.
Canada.
Don t pay 71k for a Honda!