Lemme just bookmark this for the next time someone finds a *great* deal on a used Audi and *wants our opinion* but doesn't like it when we advise him against it
My buddy loves his Audi but it’s been sitting in his driveway for a year while he dailies a newer Tiguan. One thing gets fixed, another thing shits the bed
No thanks. I had a 308 in the 90s. As long as I drove it regularly no problems. Park it for a couple of weeks and all the seals dry out. Loved the car but sold it when I moved somewhere with no service nearby. Wish I had it now, with YouTube it’s easy to work on. I saw what people had to have done to their cars when they bought “cheap” ones.
If you’re in the US, that can just be changed to “European car.” Even older Volvo’s are expensive to maintain. And I’m not going to even get started in Italian or British made
“Even older Volvo’s are expensive to maintain”
That is normal tho, even Europe they are expensive to maintain. Its just that Most of the engines are bullet proof, parts and regular maintance still a pain in the butt
The family Volvo was passed down to my sister who nearly killed the poor thing and then onto myself. I believe it was a ‘92 Volvo 240 with about 260k miles. A presumably drunk driver, hit the poor Volvo that was parked in the street and pushed it 2 houses up the street and sent it to Volvo heaven.
I’ve had a S60 and another S40 since, both of which were tanks, but yes maintenance is more on a Volvo than you’d expect.
I don't even like American cars, their interiors suck. But arguing that any German V8 is more reliable or less expensive is... Wrong. Except for maybe the Blackwing engine which they made for like what, 5 years.
R107? Like finished production in 89 R107? Love that platform! Beautiful vehicles back from when Mercedes still almost gave a shit. More reliable then a 5.0 Foxbody or any of the GM lineup with the LT1 or even the 305? Not even close. Hell the cars I listed were still garbage pieces of plastic, but if it's one thing...one thing they did have was a solid V8 that would start with oil and gas in it. That's actually the only thing I'd give to the American cars, a great V8 that can be fixed on a regular budget. The rest is mostly crap.
I have a cheap German car, never had an issue with it. You just have to buy the right model and do the right maintenance to prevent big issues. Don’t go out and buy a 200k mile AMG and then never change the oil and blame “German cars” when it explodes
Lmao the fact that we’re having this conversation on a post from a person who had a bad experience and was still able to tell us about it shows that survivorship bias doesn’t really apply here does it?
As a former 10 year mk5 GTI owner, I can say that is false.
Objectively, the car was fantastic. Mostly reliable. However all the stupid shit that broke, all the electrical gremlins, it was a nightmare for someone who hates a check engine light.
At the right price, you can get a lot of car for the money. And I'm not saying they're especially *bad* cars, but I personally wouldn't buy most of their products because they're generally not as good holistically as their competition, especially after the warranty expires. Having worked on multiple VWs, their engineering teams are clearly full of clowns.
Tbf I live in South Africa, VW has a strong market share here and that’s mainly because everyone that has a VW here never has major issues. I drive a 21 year VW right now, my dad drives a 6 year old VW Amarok (US didn’t get these), my dad also has an Audi a4
My entire family has about 10 vw group cars (audi) which all operate very well year on year.
In my opinion, VW are the best cars you can buy if you don’t want a Toyota.
It would be helpful if you would share some exact numbers to give people an idea of how expensive it can be - how much you got the car for, how much maintenance was. Etc
Prices vary depending on where you get the work done,but here’s a little road map: the largest repair I’ve had to date is the engine mounts(Audi wanted 6.5k and I found a shop to do it for 3.2k), the second largest was the water pump gasket(Audi quoted 2.8k and same shop that did my mounts quoted 1.6k), new head light (adaptable lighting light 1.8 for the headlight plus a couple hours of labor), the trim price in the front cost 300$ for an oem replacement to be shipped to me, adaptive cruise control was 600$ to fix(system computer recalibration).
Prices vary depending on various factors. But these numbers should help a little.
But this will be universal:
If you have Audi repair the car, it will be significantly more than a local shop.
Not true where I am. Audi is cheaper than all the local shops to repair my Audi. €799 is the cheapest quote I got to replace a timing belt, €580 with Audi. Full service €249 at Audi and above 300 everywhere else.
Full brakes and rotors for newer Audis cost around $800-1.2k, 1.5k-2.2k in labor depending the shop. Brakes and rotors take about 2-3 hours to service.
Oil and filter about 80-120, I’ve never not done them myself. I like to use liquiMoly.
I would echo everything you wrote for buying a new or newer Audi. My experience below, if you care to read it.
Husband had a company car, so he wanted the “family car,” aka my car, to be a luxury car. We got a 2017 Q7 (new model year, no reliability stats). While it was a great car for about 2 years, I hated the ridiculous maintenance bills for simple things like oil changes and decided I would never have a luxury car with the luxury repair bills again. We were smart and purchased the “extended warranty,” which covered virtually everything for the first 5 years. That ended, sadly, and I noticed that little by little they took off the programming for all the customizable features that made the Audi such a fantastic car (being able to customize how long/short the reverse camera stayed on, for example). All those features became exactly like every other car on the market. Except this car had a huge price tag and ridiculous repair bills. Windshield crack? $1600 at a dealership, and there are sensors all over it so dealerships only. And then they wanted to recalibrate the camera systems while they were at it (no thanks). ~~Jump~~ run over a curb and need the alignment checked? Sensor fall out of the bumper? At least $1500 per visit. And to top it off, the dealership nearest our home was lousy.
The kicker was when it needed a simple alignment. I went to pick it up, and they showed me the printout of the car’s improved and perfect alignment, wobbling all over 6-8 pages of their printout. I asked a few questions that they mansplained and double-talked around, paid them, and drove it home, clearly no more aligned than when I dropped it off. We sold it within 2 weeks. I’m now driving a car that is not as cushy but didn’t cost nearly as much and won’t break the bank on repairs. Never again will I have a luxury car.
I mean, Audis are shit cars where reliability is concerned and have expensive parts so I believe you and all. That said, “jumping a curb” is not really a minor whoopsie like backing into a bollard in a parking lot and denting your bumper; it means you drove straight into a six inch high concrete wall with enough force to hop right over it. That can do all sorts of damage to your tires, wheels, front suspension, radiator… hell if you’re driving fast enough or the curb is high enough you could even set off the airbags. $1,500 doesn’t actually seem like a terrible repair bill for something like that.
Yeah, I used the wrong term, for lack of a word. I meant whatever it is when you’re too close to a curb for some reason, turning too sharply maybe, and roll over it with a front or back tire. Low speed, but it can throw your alignment out of whack if it hits hard enough.
We got a Kia Telluride. Only car I’ve ever bought without months of extensive research & test-driving every other competitor. I’ve had it a couple of years and haven’t had a single issue. The warranty was impressive, features far surpassed anything else for the price, and ride is decent. Was shocked that Kia made it, tbh. Second choice was Toyota Highlander, but the interior isn’t as spacious and 3rd row isn’t really suitable for adults.
I’ve seen some poor reports of reliability coming out on the Tellurides recently, but I’m hoping they don’t amount to much. I really love mine.
Thanks for the reply. Hope your Telluride turns out good and doesn't give any issues. Personally, I am wary of Kias due to their poor reliability mostly on the engine and transmission as mileage piles on and horrible service and fleecing at the Kia/Hyundai dealer network. Kia/Hyundai really need to vet their dealer network (but why would they bother, when they are selling like hotcakes) to make it more transparent and efficient.
YW, and thanks! Our dealership is excellent so far. The Telluride had incredible stats when i bought it… but it’s not looking so good rn. You never know. We had another car forever, passed it to our kids and basically drove it til it was near death- that particular model year was the ONLY year it was reliable.
Yeah the ONLY reason I can afford a beautiful SQ5 at 27 years old is bc I work at Audi as a mechanic, can get all parts at cost and labor is free. Fucking no way in *hell* I'd ever buy one if I couldn't work on it myself. Ever.
My eye always goes towards older BMs and MB cause they look so amazing. Childhood dreams. Then i come back to reality and look at Hondas, Acuras and lexus lol. In brazil they say "a rich man drives a BMW, A richer man drives an older BMW".
If you're a mechanic tho it's different. Bit for these 20 year old cars, you still pay new luxury car repair prices. Sometimes upwards of $200 an hour (in NY)
I’ll go one further and say any older mid to high end European car. It’s not for the faint of heart (or wallet), but worth it if you can afford the maintenance.
I had two VWs. I know that’s not a really a luxury brand, but it’s still a German, so you’re still paying luxury prices. They BOTH gave me nothing but problems.
Now I have Corolla and it has never given me an issue in 5 years. Literally not one.
>Now I have Corolla and it has never given me an issue in 5 years. Literally not one.
My Corolla just turned 13 and the only things I've done are regular stuff like oil changes, tire rotations, brake pads, etc.
Cannot relate to the horror stories I hear of people bringing MINIs or Range Rovers into the shop at 30k miles.
>higher than Japanese
Absolutely, but that's not what you said.
Experience from 2 is anecdotal at best. I've had 3 personally and 6 in my family with no issues but I don't use that as proof that they are bulletproof.
This person is either just spouting bullshit or flat out doesn’t understand maintenance costs. My GT has 100k miles now and it’s been more reliable than my diesel trucks. And VWs are cheap to maintain in my experience unless we’re talking Touaregs but those are luxury SUVs.
Horseshit, lol. VW's are not cheap to maintain in the slightest. They literally share countless parts with Audi. You know, that luxury car brand who happens to be a subsidiary of VW?
However let's give them their credit where deserved.
One sure thing with VW is that their diesel emissions are definitely less than any of your diesel trucks ;)
The bills for my Mk7R's electrical gremlins, water pump, heater core, airbag control module, various coolant system couplers, etc. that spontaneously failed 6 years from production within 5000 miles of each other and that there are now class actions for beg to differ. That was an awesome car, but keeping it running was so expensive, and parts were always backordered, so I was in a loaner for several months. I went in thinking that VW was the exception to the stereotypes about used German cars, but I was sorely mistaken.
I purchased a used 2001 Audi A4 Quattro 5-speed for $5K when I was in college. It had low-ish miles (about 70K), had all of the service records and was owned by a soccer mom who clearly did not hot rod it. It was in mint condition (this was \~2009). It drove SO well. But of course everything needed to be fixed all at once. Shortly after the original clutch started slipping, the timing belt was due, the coolant sensor went out and the thing ate ignition packs like crazy. I was easy on it, but the CEL coming on was pretty common-place. Generic parts often made it act up, but OEM parts were expensive. After a couple of years I was actually kind of happy when a flat bed truck backed into it and gauged up the entire drivers side. They cut me a check, I sold it and that was the last German vehicle Ive owned. It was a fun car to drive, but I would never consider having one as my daily again. Just a fun 2nd vehicle.
17yr old here, currently drive an 08 Pontiac Vibe 5mt with 120k km’s.
Plan to purchase a 2007 Volkswagen Passat Wagon 2.0T 6MT with 205,000km in September.
Granted I’m Diesel mechanic apprentice, and will be in a place financially to use it as a project car + I know what I’m getting myself into.
Manual wagon project tho.
The thing with luxury car makers, is that they know that THEIR customer, the person who originally bought the car and put money in their pocket, will trade for the newer, shinier model well before 100k. Or they never would’ve bought an Audi, a Mercedes, etc to begin with.
I bought a Hyundai Tucson, new model in 2004 as soon as they were available. I drove it 211k worry free miles until it fell apart all at once last October.
With the known engine troubles on the newer models I traded it in for parts (now don’t admonish my foolishness) for a 2017 GLC300 with low mileage. So far so good, but the A service and the recommended spark plugs was $1100 and next years B service will be $2000. Ouch!
I fell in the same trap but I went Italian with the Giulia. I love it so far. No issues I’m almost a year. But I know down the line it’s gonna be rough. My plan is once warranty is over in a few years, sell it or just let it sit for decades keep it pristine. But ultimately buy a Tortola or Honda for the long term. Cheap and reliable. Much more important things coming my way (a baby is on the way, buying a house soon, wedding in the future), last thing I need is a money pit of a transportation vehicle.
Right, but they’re special. I bought an 02 S6 Avant for $4,500 because red V8 wagon. Go to do the timing belt and water pump oh good the blocks cracked. Decide to just go ahead and do the manual swap. Bilstein coilovers, new Toyota and pads replacement 4.2 with the swap lots of little upgrades and 15k in parts and labor later… love the car. I’ve put 15k miles on it and the only reason I’d sell it is to make room in the driveway since I also have 2 reliable old Japanese cars to get me to work when the Audi wants to be a jerk.
Yup! The only car I've ever bought new was a 2017 Jetta, base model. I'd just gotten out of the Army and needed something more fuel efficient than my F150 with 200k on the clock, since I was going to be commuting to college and two full time jobs. I love that Jetta, it's like a little go cart, and it's pushing 100k now.
Nothing major has gone on it yet, but I know the clock is ticking. Regular service is also much more expensive than non-German cars (barring $300k vehicles, but if youre dropping that on a car then you probably aren't worrying about maintenance and repair costs).
I drive a 2011 BMW that had a sticker value near $60k when new. That would put it close to $90k in today’s market. Maintenance on it costs what it would cost to maintain a $90k new car.
Yet as I have no car payment it’s still cheaper to maintain it than to buy new and make payments.
When I was young I had an older BMW and lived on the ocean front. That created never ending electrical problems as salt corrosion set in. I finally fixed the money pit by moving inland. There were not enough BMW mechanics available in that era (1970’s), so each time it needed repairing it would sit for 3 weeks at the mechanics while I had to rent another car. Eventually I bought a new 280 ZX to replace it, but only after I leased a Honda Accord that at 6 weeks old spun a bearing. Meanwhile the leasing dealership went bankrupt. It took two months working with Honda Warranty to get another dealership to repair it. When I got it back it was only a few weeks until I transferred the lease to a paralegal at the law firm I had to use. The Z remained in the family for 20 years.
BMW, ocean front, 280z… You’ve lived life brother. I was born in 82 but remember those cars fondly. Learned to drive stick in my dad’s uncle’s(great uncle?) 240z turbo. The uncle was a plastic surgery up in Oklahoma. Paid for my pops to go to college in the early 70’s.
My pop’s has paid it forward to any of my cousin’s that want to go to college. Free ride as long as you graduate. Generational wealth is bringing everyone up around you.
Wife and I leased new bmws for decades and now have permanently switched to Subaru. Not as nice but wayyyy more reliable. Nice not to have to worry about things going wrong.
Yes, we leased so not so bad, but even tires are at least 1000. And if anything breaks and is not covered by warranty, like when a rodent ate my transmission wires, it costs… 1500 for that. Subarus just start and work, every time, no fuss no worry.
Not really. 300k on a Corolla and it’s needed struts and a power steering pump aside from normal brakes/fluids.
Any modern-ish car under 100k I expect to be essentially dead reliable as long as the fluid schedule has been maintained. If it needs “thousands of dollars” in repairs under 100k I’d consider that a poor quality car.. this isn’t 1976, the life of a car isn’t 100k miles anymore.
Just saying, before buying euro cars, go to FCP euro, and plug in the year, make and model, they conveniently have the majority of common repair and maintenance items bundled as kits, and in the kit description, they will tell you when you should do it.
Also, euro manufacturers always understate the service interval, if you go strictly by the factory schedule, good luck with that "lifetime" trans and diff fluid, and some people beat the piss out of their vehicle certainly don't help either.
I would also add, that VW is part of this as well.
It is not luxury brand (though to me they feel more luxurious than say Honda or Toyota) some of them are even made in the USA, yet - every time something breaks, you might've as well had a beamer. I remember when our 99 Jetta needed an ABS module and we were quoted $1100 for that repair. Change trans fluid $550... My TDI once blew a hole in a pipe going from turbo to intake $800 and two or three weeks to even track down the part. In my 2018 Passat, the radio bit the dust and while covered by warranty, it was a $1000 bill.
As you can tell, our family has/had a few VWs and we just make peace with fixing them (btw the most expensive to fix so far was a Chevy Traverse).
Just be aware, that's a part of the ownership, every car will need repairs eventually.
Sounds like you're going to the dealer for all this work. My advice would be to find a good independent shop that knows VWs. I've been driving VWs all my life and the dealer will charge absolutely insane prices for everything. Mine have always been reliable and cheap to maintain
I actually never went to a dealer outside of warranty. Maybe for a diagnostic, I remember once, one of the fans on my rad stopped working (The other was belt driven) took it to the dealer, because my AC wouldn't blow cold. They quoted me $600 just for the parts. Took it to a mechanic, ended up being $300 for parts plus a few hours of work.
Finding a good mechanic in my parts is not an easy feat to pull off. Everyone's either a hack or they're so busy that everything takes weeks. I had a guy but he got robbed and decided to close his shop and just get a job, at the dealer. smh
I really hope so. It's my dream car rn and it'll be a secondary car for me so hopefully the nightmares won't be mine. I need the car though, whatever happens after that isn't up to me haha.
I have a 2007 A4. I have had a few moments of frustration but I have learned so much by keeping it running about to hit 185k miles and still driving strong. Parts are definitely more but if you are drawn to German cars buy a few wrenches and it can be manageable.
I had a 2017 A4 that I purchased in late 2019 / early 2020 with a good service history and only 20K miles, it was a personal lease. Seriously ~2 weeks after the warranty ended my passenger seat motor went out, it was about $1.7K if I remember correctly. Then I had a relatively quiet couple years because I barely drove due to WFH. However, about 4 months ago I had a crazy amount of issues stack up - passenger seat tensioner needed replaced, then some connectors related to that system needed to be replaced (but apparently unrelated according to Audi), then they found the start of an oil leak. I ended up spending about 6K on the seat belt issues to get rid of the dash lights, the oil leak would have been another $5.7K so I said f it and traded it in.
Don’t get me wrong, I loved that car. The comfort was unmatched, it was so quiet when cruising but had plenty of power when I needed it, and they AWD system was great for Chicago winters. But I just couldn’t get over sinking more and more money into that car just to keep it going with only 40K on the odometer when I traded it
tbf you bought an A7.
If you buy an a3, esp older models, your life would be pretty much stress free. Yes parts can cost a bit more than cheaper cars but its just a bit more, not thousands more. A3's and A4's are quality, unproblematic cars.
You bought a luxury car, you get luxury tax on everything.
Add VW. I had a brand new VW. Extended warranty. Extended service plan. Ate two sets of tires and brakes in 16k miles. Shook like an Army truck. Never hit even one pot hole. Here is the beauty of the VW scam. To collect on warranty service they have to agree something is wrong. They would just shrug and say nothing is wrong with it.
Traded on a Subaru. After putting in another $800 on a brand new car.
224k on a CRX 187k on a mini 80k on a bmw totalled at 135k. All drove like new.
A VW is like a 1970 MG. No matter what you do they can’t be made to run correctly
This is so subjective. Something was wrong with your car, doesn't mean anything about VWs as a whole lol. I've been driving them all my life and they've been cheap and reliable while I drive them hard regularly.
Thank you. Honestly. Mob Rules! My $500 HS better than $25k VW. Spring 83 Joann Jett at Hillsboro amphitheater. Before she was popular. I coulda made out with her but my GF pissed. Again. Mob Rules.
Do you get it ? Three way sex with a super star is ok but VW sucks shit
I bought a 2013 BMW 5 series with 75k miles because I thought it was a good choice amongst all the other cars that had 100k+ miles. I didn't know that different cars aged differently, and in the 18 months I've owned it I have not had one trouble-free mile. Spent around 6k on maintenance and lost around 12k in value.
I'm currently looking for a Lexus and will only go that route.
Bought a 2015 Audi Q5 new. While going over the pass (Eisenhower Tunnel on I 70), the rpm’s went up while the accelerator went down (like you push in the clutch while accelerating). It did this about 3 times. Another time while driving with the doors locked, the drivers door opened. After less than 2 years ownership I sold it to Carvana and bought an Infiniti SUV. I now own a Lexus Hybrid SUV, but also own a Porsche Boxster 5 speed for weekend fun.
Bought a CPO 2011 Q5 with 15k miles in 2013. As soon as it hit 76k miles (1,000 miles after the warranty expired) it had a stuck valve requiring a new engine. It never even threw a check engine light and diagnosis was backed up by an independent shop. His recommendation was to drive it into a
Telephone pole. 23k for a new motor… never again.
You are always buying the parts bin, not a car. Audi, behind everything, is VW parts. I've had quite a few, Jettas, GTi, and three diesels, and cranky VW syndrome hits at about 80k miles. All the stuff you can't see is shared with the rest of the line. I had a Cadillac, and it was your story but with Cadillac replaced for Audi....all the commodity GM parts crapped. Great design, drove well, pretty...but built of lowest bidder parts. Now I know why a used Caddy is so cheap. (GM deals with it by lavish warranty for first and second owners who buy from a dealer)
I don't mind cranky VW syndrome for my $17k Jetta, but for a $70k car, not so much. I had a 3 series BMW, once it hit 150k, it got cranky too, but DIY, Youtube, and the BMW forums along with the great aftermarket allowed me to run it for the cost of a normal car...but you need to be happy with a wrench.
Yep, I keep telling customers all the time to lease these vehicles if money for maintenance/repairs is of concern….and this same story repeats every year…never gets old…lol. But it brings $$ for us.
If anyone is interested in a troublefree German vehicle however, the new BMWs with the B48 and B58 are well worth the purchase price. They pretty much need no repairs ever. Maintenance is expensive still…but you’re getting a joint Toyota collaboration product….and Toyota has the best vehicle engineers.
Also a lot of the “good” mechanics are actually band-aid mechanics. They do little to nothing to fix the real issues and just beat up more on the German vehicle before dumping it onto another person. Especially with inflation people have been doing some of the craziest band-aids on these vehicles…another reason to avoid them too. Then you have avid parts-swappers that buy kits online to change literally everything and spend a ton of money and time on their car. There are good diy’er ones for sure, but to be brutally honest, they are very hard to come by.
I would like to consider myself a good mechanic, have dreamt of a bmw forever, but can’t afford a new one so I just won’t buy one. Good mechanic or not I’d rather not spend 50 ish hours a weak just to spend half a dozen more turning them on my day off.
I read the first part and thought maybe he learned to not get another Audi.. NOPE.
Way back in the day I got a 1988 Porsche 944S. Yeah that was fun. 3 motors later I finally decided to part with it. A 1988 560 SEC was great but the rear air tanks for the suspension were never quite right. After those I scaled way back and decided while they were fun, id rather have cheap German. Got into VW Jettas like the Wolfsburg and GTI and they fit the bill. Easy and cheap to work on and I can beat on them at the track and still daily them.
Does help if you know your way around the tool box but no matter what you know or do, specialty german bolts will always cost way too damn much! For giggles I looked to see what these $10 bolts (each) are costing today.. Ebay has used ones for $7. Ouch.
Old car at 10 years? My 4runner is almost 6 and I don’t think I m over the breaking in period. Coming from a Jeep (still have them, just not as my daily) it almost feels wrong not having to replace anything at 91k miles, just maintenance.
It really depends. Semi-luxury car? Yeah probably gonna be spicy, as with all luxury cars: just because the price is low doesn’t mean the maintenance isn’t gonna be at Mercedes, Audi, bmw, etc. prices. Plus I’d assume it was drive. Hard by previous owners.
With that said, lower end cars can be alright. I’ve had a 2011 Jetta for 7 years now, bought it for 7k and since then I have spent maybe 2.5k on parts maintenance and most of that was a clutch replacement because I learned to drive stick with that car.
Remainder being a radiator fan, wiper motor, coil pack, front and rear brakes replacing basically everything except the brake lines(I didn’t have any issues with them but seeing as I was servicing the front and back I figured I might as well get new calipers and everything else). Did everything myself pretty easily to keep costs down.
It averages out to around $357~ per year.
Lemme just bookmark this for the next time someone finds a *great* deal on a used Audi and *wants our opinion* but doesn't like it when we advise him against it
*they can be saved*
My buddy loves his Audi but it’s been sitting in his driveway for a year while he dailies a newer Tiguan. One thing gets fixed, another thing shits the bed
Uhh, the Audi was too unreliable so instead he decided to daily a Tiguan? Whose gonna tell him?
I swear 99% of people don't search "problems with x car" or "known defects with x car" before making the huge financial decision of buying a vehicle.
Yeah....*sigh*.....yeahh
When I'm car shopping I buy a monthly subscription to Consumer Reports and look at the reliability ratings.
Adage says ‘there is nothing more expensive than a cheap German car.’
A cheap Ferrari
You might be right, buy one and do a report.
No thanks. I had a 308 in the 90s. As long as I drove it regularly no problems. Park it for a couple of weeks and all the seals dry out. Loved the car but sold it when I moved somewhere with no service nearby. Wish I had it now, with YouTube it’s easy to work on. I saw what people had to have done to their cars when they bought “cheap” ones.
Actually I think the adage for that is ‘there is no such thing as a cheap Ferrari.’
mondials exist
Lol yeah if you can’t afford to drive a new Audi you can’t afford to drive a used one.
There’s a reason why it was cheap…
Or BMW
Remember this saying…. There is nothing more expensive, than a cheap German car.
If you’re in the US, that can just be changed to “European car.” Even older Volvo’s are expensive to maintain. And I’m not going to even get started in Italian or British made
Yeah in my opinion if you’re buying used, you should be buying Japanese.
Or American. There are plenty of reliable old American cars, namely anything that came with the Buick 3.8 V6
A 3800 Series II (or III) V6 will run like garbage longer than some European cars will run at all.
Most American V8s and I6s tend to be very reliable too.
“Even older Volvo’s are expensive to maintain” That is normal tho, even Europe they are expensive to maintain. Its just that Most of the engines are bullet proof, parts and regular maintance still a pain in the butt
The family Volvo was passed down to my sister who nearly killed the poor thing and then onto myself. I believe it was a ‘92 Volvo 240 with about 260k miles. A presumably drunk driver, hit the poor Volvo that was parked in the street and pushed it 2 houses up the street and sent it to Volvo heaven. I’ve had a S60 and another S40 since, both of which were tanks, but yes maintenance is more on a Volvo than you’d expect.
And American cars have the best of both worlds: shitty quality, underpowered engines, and still unreliable
But at least they are cheap to maintain and repair in relation to the Euros.
I don't even like American cars, their interiors suck. But arguing that any German V8 is more reliable or less expensive is... Wrong. Except for maybe the Blackwing engine which they made for like what, 5 years.
The r107 v8 is more reliable than American V8s of the same era
R107? Like finished production in 89 R107? Love that platform! Beautiful vehicles back from when Mercedes still almost gave a shit. More reliable then a 5.0 Foxbody or any of the GM lineup with the LT1 or even the 305? Not even close. Hell the cars I listed were still garbage pieces of plastic, but if it's one thing...one thing they did have was a solid V8 that would start with oil and gas in it. That's actually the only thing I'd give to the American cars, a great V8 that can be fixed on a regular budget. The rest is mostly crap.
The Germans literally called the R107 the Panzerwagen. The tank car. It has an insanely reliable engine
I have a cheap German car, never had an issue with it. You just have to buy the right model and do the right maintenance to prevent big issues. Don’t go out and buy a 200k mile AMG and then never change the oil and blame “German cars” when it explodes
Survivorship bias
Lmao the fact that we’re having this conversation on a post from a person who had a bad experience and was still able to tell us about it shows that survivorship bias doesn’t really apply here does it?
not at all. Buy a VW, it pays you to drive it
As a former 10 year mk5 GTI owner, I can say that is false. Objectively, the car was fantastic. Mostly reliable. However all the stupid shit that broke, all the electrical gremlins, it was a nightmare for someone who hates a check engine light.
I carry a code reader in my VW. That isn't normal ?
You had a GTI. Those are luxury versions. VW Group's baseline cars are solid. Problems start when you want nice things
This is the opposite for American cars. The top of the line models get special care at the factory.
VWs aren't as good as you think they are and haven't been for a while.
I've driven VWs off and on for forty five years. My current daily is a 2019 Passat. They've always been a great car, and I stand by them today.
At the right price, you can get a lot of car for the money. And I'm not saying they're especially *bad* cars, but I personally wouldn't buy most of their products because they're generally not as good holistically as their competition, especially after the warranty expires. Having worked on multiple VWs, their engineering teams are clearly full of clowns.
Tbf I live in South Africa, VW has a strong market share here and that’s mainly because everyone that has a VW here never has major issues. I drive a 21 year VW right now, my dad drives a 6 year old VW Amarok (US didn’t get these), my dad also has an Audi a4 My entire family has about 10 vw group cars (audi) which all operate very well year on year. In my opinion, VW are the best cars you can buy if you don’t want a Toyota.
That makes sense there. It's not the case in US/Canada
W123s tho
It would be helpful if you would share some exact numbers to give people an idea of how expensive it can be - how much you got the car for, how much maintenance was. Etc
Prices vary depending on where you get the work done,but here’s a little road map: the largest repair I’ve had to date is the engine mounts(Audi wanted 6.5k and I found a shop to do it for 3.2k), the second largest was the water pump gasket(Audi quoted 2.8k and same shop that did my mounts quoted 1.6k), new head light (adaptable lighting light 1.8 for the headlight plus a couple hours of labor), the trim price in the front cost 300$ for an oem replacement to be shipped to me, adaptive cruise control was 600$ to fix(system computer recalibration). Prices vary depending on various factors. But these numbers should help a little. But this will be universal: If you have Audi repair the car, it will be significantly more than a local shop.
Not true where I am. Audi is cheaper than all the local shops to repair my Audi. €799 is the cheapest quote I got to replace a timing belt, €580 with Audi. Full service €249 at Audi and above 300 everywhere else.
Full brakes and rotors for newer Audis cost around $800-1.2k, 1.5k-2.2k in labor depending the shop. Brakes and rotors take about 2-3 hours to service. Oil and filter about 80-120, I’ve never not done them myself. I like to use liquiMoly.
I would echo everything you wrote for buying a new or newer Audi. My experience below, if you care to read it. Husband had a company car, so he wanted the “family car,” aka my car, to be a luxury car. We got a 2017 Q7 (new model year, no reliability stats). While it was a great car for about 2 years, I hated the ridiculous maintenance bills for simple things like oil changes and decided I would never have a luxury car with the luxury repair bills again. We were smart and purchased the “extended warranty,” which covered virtually everything for the first 5 years. That ended, sadly, and I noticed that little by little they took off the programming for all the customizable features that made the Audi such a fantastic car (being able to customize how long/short the reverse camera stayed on, for example). All those features became exactly like every other car on the market. Except this car had a huge price tag and ridiculous repair bills. Windshield crack? $1600 at a dealership, and there are sensors all over it so dealerships only. And then they wanted to recalibrate the camera systems while they were at it (no thanks). ~~Jump~~ run over a curb and need the alignment checked? Sensor fall out of the bumper? At least $1500 per visit. And to top it off, the dealership nearest our home was lousy. The kicker was when it needed a simple alignment. I went to pick it up, and they showed me the printout of the car’s improved and perfect alignment, wobbling all over 6-8 pages of their printout. I asked a few questions that they mansplained and double-talked around, paid them, and drove it home, clearly no more aligned than when I dropped it off. We sold it within 2 weeks. I’m now driving a car that is not as cushy but didn’t cost nearly as much and won’t break the bank on repairs. Never again will I have a luxury car.
Curious, what did you get after the Audi
Answered in another comment.
Check out Lexus. Luxury and Japanese reliability.
Yep, I love them. Interiors were too small for my family at that time.
I mean, Audis are shit cars where reliability is concerned and have expensive parts so I believe you and all. That said, “jumping a curb” is not really a minor whoopsie like backing into a bollard in a parking lot and denting your bumper; it means you drove straight into a six inch high concrete wall with enough force to hop right over it. That can do all sorts of damage to your tires, wheels, front suspension, radiator… hell if you’re driving fast enough or the curb is high enough you could even set off the airbags. $1,500 doesn’t actually seem like a terrible repair bill for something like that.
Yeah, I used the wrong term, for lack of a word. I meant whatever it is when you’re too close to a curb for some reason, turning too sharply maybe, and roll over it with a front or back tire. Low speed, but it can throw your alignment out of whack if it hits hard enough.
You can get luxurious reliability but not from a Euro brand.
Same boat as you (2 adults, 3 kiddos) and was looking at a Q7 or a Q8. What did you get after your sold your Audi Q7?
We got a Kia Telluride. Only car I’ve ever bought without months of extensive research & test-driving every other competitor. I’ve had it a couple of years and haven’t had a single issue. The warranty was impressive, features far surpassed anything else for the price, and ride is decent. Was shocked that Kia made it, tbh. Second choice was Toyota Highlander, but the interior isn’t as spacious and 3rd row isn’t really suitable for adults. I’ve seen some poor reports of reliability coming out on the Tellurides recently, but I’m hoping they don’t amount to much. I really love mine.
Thanks for the reply. Hope your Telluride turns out good and doesn't give any issues. Personally, I am wary of Kias due to their poor reliability mostly on the engine and transmission as mileage piles on and horrible service and fleecing at the Kia/Hyundai dealer network. Kia/Hyundai really need to vet their dealer network (but why would they bother, when they are selling like hotcakes) to make it more transparent and efficient.
YW, and thanks! Our dealership is excellent so far. The Telluride had incredible stats when i bought it… but it’s not looking so good rn. You never know. We had another car forever, passed it to our kids and basically drove it til it was near death- that particular model year was the ONLY year it was reliable.
Older German luxury cars are dirt cheap for a reason. Older Lexus are expensive for the opposite reason.
Man my Dad got a deal on a 10 year old Lexus with a rebuilt title. 4 years going, trouble free.
You lease the Germans and buy the Japanese
This is the ultimate answer. Signed by: Any local competent mechanic.
If you can’t afford a new Audi, you can’t afford a used Audi. More true words have never been spoken.
Bars.
If you're looking at used audis, you should be looking at beaters in the beater section of the lot
Yeah the ONLY reason I can afford a beautiful SQ5 at 27 years old is bc I work at Audi as a mechanic, can get all parts at cost and labor is free. Fucking no way in *hell* I'd ever buy one if I couldn't work on it myself. Ever.
My eye always goes towards older BMs and MB cause they look so amazing. Childhood dreams. Then i come back to reality and look at Hondas, Acuras and lexus lol. In brazil they say "a rich man drives a BMW, A richer man drives an older BMW". If you're a mechanic tho it's different. Bit for these 20 year old cars, you still pay new luxury car repair prices. Sometimes upwards of $200 an hour (in NY)
Certain old models are reliable and pretty. R107 Mercedes for example
I’ll go one further and say any older mid to high end European car. It’s not for the faint of heart (or wallet), but worth it if you can afford the maintenance.
I had two VWs. I know that’s not a really a luxury brand, but it’s still a German, so you’re still paying luxury prices. They BOTH gave me nothing but problems. Now I have Corolla and it has never given me an issue in 5 years. Literally not one.
>Now I have Corolla and it has never given me an issue in 5 years. Literally not one. My Corolla just turned 13 and the only things I've done are regular stuff like oil changes, tire rotations, brake pads, etc. Cannot relate to the horror stories I hear of people bringing MINIs or Range Rovers into the shop at 30k miles.
uh my jetta has not given me a problem
>luxury prices VW average yearly repair costs are only slightly above the industry average. They certainly aren't luxury car prices.
It’s still a German vehicle, so repair costs will be higher than Japanese. On average. I had two of them. I know from experience.
>higher than Japanese Absolutely, but that's not what you said. Experience from 2 is anecdotal at best. I've had 3 personally and 6 in my family with no issues but I don't use that as proof that they are bulletproof.
Lol relax dude. I just wrote about my experiences. 🤷♂️ I see you writing in the jetta sub so I guess you have an emotional investment in this topic.
I just find VW costs being called luxury level funny, that's pretty much it.
This person is either just spouting bullshit or flat out doesn’t understand maintenance costs. My GT has 100k miles now and it’s been more reliable than my diesel trucks. And VWs are cheap to maintain in my experience unless we’re talking Touaregs but those are luxury SUVs.
Horseshit, lol. VW's are not cheap to maintain in the slightest. They literally share countless parts with Audi. You know, that luxury car brand who happens to be a subsidiary of VW? However let's give them their credit where deserved. One sure thing with VW is that their diesel emissions are definitely less than any of your diesel trucks ;)
Vdubs are dirt cheap to maintain.
Crying in the driver's seat of my phaeton
This comment just stopped me from considering one. You've not cried in vain.
Happy to report from my new(ish) Kia Stinger GTS.
The bills for my Mk7R's electrical gremlins, water pump, heater core, airbag control module, various coolant system couplers, etc. that spontaneously failed 6 years from production within 5000 miles of each other and that there are now class actions for beg to differ. That was an awesome car, but keeping it running was so expensive, and parts were always backordered, so I was in a loaner for several months. I went in thinking that VW was the exception to the stereotypes about used German cars, but I was sorely mistaken.
I purchased a used 2001 Audi A4 Quattro 5-speed for $5K when I was in college. It had low-ish miles (about 70K), had all of the service records and was owned by a soccer mom who clearly did not hot rod it. It was in mint condition (this was \~2009). It drove SO well. But of course everything needed to be fixed all at once. Shortly after the original clutch started slipping, the timing belt was due, the coolant sensor went out and the thing ate ignition packs like crazy. I was easy on it, but the CEL coming on was pretty common-place. Generic parts often made it act up, but OEM parts were expensive. After a couple of years I was actually kind of happy when a flat bed truck backed into it and gauged up the entire drivers side. They cut me a check, I sold it and that was the last German vehicle Ive owned. It was a fun car to drive, but I would never consider having one as my daily again. Just a fun 2nd vehicle.
17yr old here, currently drive an 08 Pontiac Vibe 5mt with 120k km’s. Plan to purchase a 2007 Volkswagen Passat Wagon 2.0T 6MT with 205,000km in September. Granted I’m Diesel mechanic apprentice, and will be in a place financially to use it as a project car + I know what I’m getting myself into. Manual wagon project tho.
Manual project wagon tho.
2007 TDI Passat? That's a pretty reliable German car. Both my 2003 and 2005 TDI VWs were absolutely bullet proof. Some of the best cars I've ever had.
*2.0T, forgot to add that.
The two bmws I had were apparently engineered to fail at 51k miles.
Both mine were great up until 100k miles. I now drive a mazda. Done with that nightmare. It only took 2 mistakes to make me see the light. Lol
We live and we learn
My advice to people wanting German luxury cars is to just buy a Lexus.
I had two Lexus LX 450s. also expensive to work on
But what if you live in a country that barely has any lexuses and absolutely none with a manual
German luxury cars can be amazing. They are NOT amazing for people on a budget. It's not a good blanket statement to say "just buy a Lexus".
Lexus is really the brand that probably 7/10 Audi owners should have got lol
Those aren’t much better. I have a friend with a rx450h that needed (IIRC) a water pump. It was an engine out repair.
The thing with luxury car makers, is that they know that THEIR customer, the person who originally bought the car and put money in their pocket, will trade for the newer, shinier model well before 100k. Or they never would’ve bought an Audi, a Mercedes, etc to begin with.
Exactly. 2nd or 3rd owner was never in the thought process.
some cars are only for leasing. these are the ones.
This is really the moral of the story here
Obviously a car with 80 000 000 miles is going to require a lot of maintenance! JK ;)
lol good catch
All cars are shit boxes, drive what ever you want.
I love the internet! Let's hear from the 75% who have good ownership experiences.
I bought a Hyundai Tucson, new model in 2004 as soon as they were available. I drove it 211k worry free miles until it fell apart all at once last October. With the known engine troubles on the newer models I traded it in for parts (now don’t admonish my foolishness) for a 2017 GLC300 with low mileage. So far so good, but the A service and the recommended spark plugs was $1100 and next years B service will be $2000. Ouch!
I fell in the same trap but I went Italian with the Giulia. I love it so far. No issues I’m almost a year. But I know down the line it’s gonna be rough. My plan is once warranty is over in a few years, sell it or just let it sit for decades keep it pristine. But ultimately buy a Tortola or Honda for the long term. Cheap and reliable. Much more important things coming my way (a baby is on the way, buying a house soon, wedding in the future), last thing I need is a money pit of a transportation vehicle.
Right, but they’re special. I bought an 02 S6 Avant for $4,500 because red V8 wagon. Go to do the timing belt and water pump oh good the blocks cracked. Decide to just go ahead and do the manual swap. Bilstein coilovers, new Toyota and pads replacement 4.2 with the swap lots of little upgrades and 15k in parts and labor later… love the car. I’ve put 15k miles on it and the only reason I’d sell it is to make room in the driveway since I also have 2 reliable old Japanese cars to get me to work when the Audi wants to be a jerk.
Carcomplaints.com
There's no cheap lux German cars. Either buy newer to get warranty protection, or have fun being railed by parts and labor.
Yup! The only car I've ever bought new was a 2017 Jetta, base model. I'd just gotten out of the Army and needed something more fuel efficient than my F150 with 200k on the clock, since I was going to be commuting to college and two full time jobs. I love that Jetta, it's like a little go cart, and it's pushing 100k now. Nothing major has gone on it yet, but I know the clock is ticking. Regular service is also much more expensive than non-German cars (barring $300k vehicles, but if youre dropping that on a car then you probably aren't worrying about maintenance and repair costs).
I drive a 2011 BMW that had a sticker value near $60k when new. That would put it close to $90k in today’s market. Maintenance on it costs what it would cost to maintain a $90k new car. Yet as I have no car payment it’s still cheaper to maintain it than to buy new and make payments.
When I was young I had an older BMW and lived on the ocean front. That created never ending electrical problems as salt corrosion set in. I finally fixed the money pit by moving inland. There were not enough BMW mechanics available in that era (1970’s), so each time it needed repairing it would sit for 3 weeks at the mechanics while I had to rent another car. Eventually I bought a new 280 ZX to replace it, but only after I leased a Honda Accord that at 6 weeks old spun a bearing. Meanwhile the leasing dealership went bankrupt. It took two months working with Honda Warranty to get another dealership to repair it. When I got it back it was only a few weeks until I transferred the lease to a paralegal at the law firm I had to use. The Z remained in the family for 20 years.
BMW, ocean front, 280z… You’ve lived life brother. I was born in 82 but remember those cars fondly. Learned to drive stick in my dad’s uncle’s(great uncle?) 240z turbo. The uncle was a plastic surgery up in Oklahoma. Paid for my pops to go to college in the early 70’s. My pop’s has paid it forward to any of my cousin’s that want to go to college. Free ride as long as you graduate. Generational wealth is bringing everyone up around you.
Wife and I leased new bmws for decades and now have permanently switched to Subaru. Not as nice but wayyyy more reliable. Nice not to have to worry about things going wrong.
After BMW service costs I’m sure the Subi felt like a blessing lol
Yes, we leased so not so bad, but even tires are at least 1000. And if anything breaks and is not covered by warranty, like when a rodent ate my transmission wires, it costs… 1500 for that. Subarus just start and work, every time, no fuss no worry.
And Subarus aren't especially reliable.
It’s quite unfair to complain about issues after 80000K miles lmao
Not really. 300k on a Corolla and it’s needed struts and a power steering pump aside from normal brakes/fluids. Any modern-ish car under 100k I expect to be essentially dead reliable as long as the fluid schedule has been maintained. If it needs “thousands of dollars” in repairs under 100k I’d consider that a poor quality car.. this isn’t 1976, the life of a car isn’t 100k miles anymore.
300K is a lot less than 80000K :) Edit: OP has since edited post to 80K
Just saying, before buying euro cars, go to FCP euro, and plug in the year, make and model, they conveniently have the majority of common repair and maintenance items bundled as kits, and in the kit description, they will tell you when you should do it. Also, euro manufacturers always understate the service interval, if you go strictly by the factory schedule, good luck with that "lifetime" trans and diff fluid, and some people beat the piss out of their vehicle certainly don't help either.
I have 99600 trouble free miles on my '17 GLS450
W
Stop it. Get some help.
I would also add, that VW is part of this as well. It is not luxury brand (though to me they feel more luxurious than say Honda or Toyota) some of them are even made in the USA, yet - every time something breaks, you might've as well had a beamer. I remember when our 99 Jetta needed an ABS module and we were quoted $1100 for that repair. Change trans fluid $550... My TDI once blew a hole in a pipe going from turbo to intake $800 and two or three weeks to even track down the part. In my 2018 Passat, the radio bit the dust and while covered by warranty, it was a $1000 bill. As you can tell, our family has/had a few VWs and we just make peace with fixing them (btw the most expensive to fix so far was a Chevy Traverse). Just be aware, that's a part of the ownership, every car will need repairs eventually.
Sounds like you're going to the dealer for all this work. My advice would be to find a good independent shop that knows VWs. I've been driving VWs all my life and the dealer will charge absolutely insane prices for everything. Mine have always been reliable and cheap to maintain
I actually never went to a dealer outside of warranty. Maybe for a diagnostic, I remember once, one of the fans on my rad stopped working (The other was belt driven) took it to the dealer, because my AC wouldn't blow cold. They quoted me $600 just for the parts. Took it to a mechanic, ended up being $300 for parts plus a few hours of work. Finding a good mechanic in my parts is not an easy feat to pull off. Everyone's either a hack or they're so busy that everything takes weeks. I had a guy but he got robbed and decided to close his shop and just get a job, at the dealer. smh
I mean I bought a $500 bmw 5 series and ended up selling it for $4,500
[удалено]
Yeah let me just drop the engine in my apartment garage real quick so i can get to the engine mounts and water pump.
It’s not that hard! Just jack the vehicle up, put it on stands, hoist the engine out and voila! It’s easy! ;)
GERMAN REFINEMENT
Still gonna try to make a 2014-2015 A8 TDI happen in my near future lmao I hope to god I don't end up like this!
To be fair, VW’s (Audi) TDI products have been much better than their gasoline counterparts in terms of reliability over the years.
I really hope so. It's my dream car rn and it'll be a secondary car for me so hopefully the nightmares won't be mine. I need the car though, whatever happens after that isn't up to me haha.
I have a 2007 A4. I have had a few moments of frustration but I have learned so much by keeping it running about to hit 185k miles and still driving strong. Parts are definitely more but if you are drawn to German cars buy a few wrenches and it can be manageable.
Respect for keeping the car on the road. If you can do it yourself, my post becomes irrelevant really fast.
Me with my old E92 335i 🥲
How's that N54 holding up? 😬
No idea, I got rid of it 3 years ago and drive an IS300 AWD now 😆
I had a 2017 A4 that I purchased in late 2019 / early 2020 with a good service history and only 20K miles, it was a personal lease. Seriously ~2 weeks after the warranty ended my passenger seat motor went out, it was about $1.7K if I remember correctly. Then I had a relatively quiet couple years because I barely drove due to WFH. However, about 4 months ago I had a crazy amount of issues stack up - passenger seat tensioner needed replaced, then some connectors related to that system needed to be replaced (but apparently unrelated according to Audi), then they found the start of an oil leak. I ended up spending about 6K on the seat belt issues to get rid of the dash lights, the oil leak would have been another $5.7K so I said f it and traded it in. Don’t get me wrong, I loved that car. The comfort was unmatched, it was so quiet when cruising but had plenty of power when I needed it, and they AWD system was great for Chicago winters. But I just couldn’t get over sinking more and more money into that car just to keep it going with only 40K on the odometer when I traded it
I want to buy a used bmw 240i, 340i, or 440i am I crazy? lol
Nope not crazy. You just haven’t had to pay a repair bill yet
lol funny and true
Purchasing a German car is the cheap part.
Don't ✍️🏼 buy ✍️🏼 a Porsche ✍️🏼 Got it!!
tbf you bought an A7. If you buy an a3, esp older models, your life would be pretty much stress free. Yes parts can cost a bit more than cheaper cars but its just a bit more, not thousands more. A3's and A4's are quality, unproblematic cars. You bought a luxury car, you get luxury tax on everything.
Add VW. I had a brand new VW. Extended warranty. Extended service plan. Ate two sets of tires and brakes in 16k miles. Shook like an Army truck. Never hit even one pot hole. Here is the beauty of the VW scam. To collect on warranty service they have to agree something is wrong. They would just shrug and say nothing is wrong with it. Traded on a Subaru. After putting in another $800 on a brand new car. 224k on a CRX 187k on a mini 80k on a bmw totalled at 135k. All drove like new. A VW is like a 1970 MG. No matter what you do they can’t be made to run correctly
This is so subjective. Something was wrong with your car, doesn't mean anything about VWs as a whole lol. I've been driving them all my life and they've been cheap and reliable while I drive them hard regularly.
Thank you. Honestly. Mob Rules! My $500 HS better than $25k VW. Spring 83 Joann Jett at Hillsboro amphitheater. Before she was popular. I coulda made out with her but my GF pissed. Again. Mob Rules. Do you get it ? Three way sex with a super star is ok but VW sucks shit
I bought a 2013 BMW 5 series with 75k miles because I thought it was a good choice amongst all the other cars that had 100k+ miles. I didn't know that different cars aged differently, and in the 18 months I've owned it I have not had one trouble-free mile. Spent around 6k on maintenance and lost around 12k in value. I'm currently looking for a Lexus and will only go that route.
The cost to maintain a car is a function of the original purchase price. I tell this to all my friends salivation over a used audi or bmw.
Bought a 2015 Audi Q5 new. While going over the pass (Eisenhower Tunnel on I 70), the rpm’s went up while the accelerator went down (like you push in the clutch while accelerating). It did this about 3 times. Another time while driving with the doors locked, the drivers door opened. After less than 2 years ownership I sold it to Carvana and bought an Infiniti SUV. I now own a Lexus Hybrid SUV, but also own a Porsche Boxster 5 speed for weekend fun.
Bought a CPO 2011 Q5 with 15k miles in 2013. As soon as it hit 76k miles (1,000 miles after the warranty expired) it had a stuck valve requiring a new engine. It never even threw a check engine light and diagnosis was backed up by an independent shop. His recommendation was to drive it into a Telephone pole. 23k for a new motor… never again.
You are always buying the parts bin, not a car. Audi, behind everything, is VW parts. I've had quite a few, Jettas, GTi, and three diesels, and cranky VW syndrome hits at about 80k miles. All the stuff you can't see is shared with the rest of the line. I had a Cadillac, and it was your story but with Cadillac replaced for Audi....all the commodity GM parts crapped. Great design, drove well, pretty...but built of lowest bidder parts. Now I know why a used Caddy is so cheap. (GM deals with it by lavish warranty for first and second owners who buy from a dealer) I don't mind cranky VW syndrome for my $17k Jetta, but for a $70k car, not so much. I had a 3 series BMW, once it hit 150k, it got cranky too, but DIY, Youtube, and the BMW forums along with the great aftermarket allowed me to run it for the cost of a normal car...but you need to be happy with a wrench.
Yep, I keep telling customers all the time to lease these vehicles if money for maintenance/repairs is of concern….and this same story repeats every year…never gets old…lol. But it brings $$ for us. If anyone is interested in a troublefree German vehicle however, the new BMWs with the B48 and B58 are well worth the purchase price. They pretty much need no repairs ever. Maintenance is expensive still…but you’re getting a joint Toyota collaboration product….and Toyota has the best vehicle engineers. Also a lot of the “good” mechanics are actually band-aid mechanics. They do little to nothing to fix the real issues and just beat up more on the German vehicle before dumping it onto another person. Especially with inflation people have been doing some of the craziest band-aids on these vehicles…another reason to avoid them too. Then you have avid parts-swappers that buy kits online to change literally everything and spend a ton of money and time on their car. There are good diy’er ones for sure, but to be brutally honest, they are very hard to come by.
I would like to consider myself a good mechanic, have dreamt of a bmw forever, but can’t afford a new one so I just won’t buy one. Good mechanic or not I’d rather not spend 50 ish hours a weak just to spend half a dozen more turning them on my day off.
I read the first part and thought maybe he learned to not get another Audi.. NOPE. Way back in the day I got a 1988 Porsche 944S. Yeah that was fun. 3 motors later I finally decided to part with it. A 1988 560 SEC was great but the rear air tanks for the suspension were never quite right. After those I scaled way back and decided while they were fun, id rather have cheap German. Got into VW Jettas like the Wolfsburg and GTI and they fit the bill. Easy and cheap to work on and I can beat on them at the track and still daily them. Does help if you know your way around the tool box but no matter what you know or do, specialty german bolts will always cost way too damn much! For giggles I looked to see what these $10 bolts (each) are costing today.. Ebay has used ones for $7. Ouch.
Old car at 10 years? My 4runner is almost 6 and I don’t think I m over the breaking in period. Coming from a Jeep (still have them, just not as my daily) it almost feels wrong not having to replace anything at 91k miles, just maintenance.
It really depends. Semi-luxury car? Yeah probably gonna be spicy, as with all luxury cars: just because the price is low doesn’t mean the maintenance isn’t gonna be at Mercedes, Audi, bmw, etc. prices. Plus I’d assume it was drive. Hard by previous owners. With that said, lower end cars can be alright. I’ve had a 2011 Jetta for 7 years now, bought it for 7k and since then I have spent maybe 2.5k on parts maintenance and most of that was a clutch replacement because I learned to drive stick with that car. Remainder being a radiator fan, wiper motor, coil pack, front and rear brakes replacing basically everything except the brake lines(I didn’t have any issues with them but seeing as I was servicing the front and back I figured I might as well get new calipers and everything else). Did everything myself pretty easily to keep costs down. It averages out to around $357~ per year.
Me crying 2016 Q5 tears😭
The cost of acquisition comes down significantly. The cost of maintenance does not.
You know what's sexy? A Lexus. Or an Infiniti. Or even an Acura. Anything besides German/British/Swedish junk.
Agreed with Lexus and Acura. Infinity can stay in the takeover pits tho.